Un chico de 19 años discutió con su madre y la mató. Escuchamos el llamado que lo complica aún más al hijo.
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00:00as a result of a suicide, and with the passage of time, it seems that reality is another.
00:07Diego Nicolás, live, works there in Villa Martelli.
00:10Diego, good afternoon.
00:12Hello, how are you Bobby? Good afternoon.
00:14Yes, we are on La Prida Street, at 4500.
00:18In this house, which now has its door closed by the police,
00:23lived this 50-year-old woman,
00:25who died for causes investigated by the police this morning.
00:31What did her son say when he called the police?
00:33That his mother had committed suicide.
00:35However, when the investigators entered,
00:37they observed that the mother had died from wounds to the white weapon,
00:43some of them in the neck, which caused her death.
00:47In the face of the police's doubt, the investigators immediately
00:51put their eyes on the woman's own son,
00:55whom they immediately arrested for considering him the author of the murder of his own mother.
01:02This young man is 19 years old.
01:05He already had a conflictive relationship with his mother,
01:08according to the information that was transcending in these hours,
01:11because he had been assaulting her for several years.
01:15There are those who speak of perimetral measures
01:18that justice had established between the son and the mother,
01:22but it was the mother herself who, excited, allowed her son to return home.
01:27Let's see, I want to talk to Fabiana, who is a neighbor here in the area,
01:31who knew this 50-year-old woman.
01:34Fabiana, good afternoon.
01:35Good afternoon.
01:36Well, we were saying that there was a conflictive relationship between mother and son,
01:39which was several years old?
01:40Many years ago, yes.
01:43She broke things in the house.
01:45She did everything for her son.
01:47Everything, but ...
01:48Were there perimetral measures?
01:49There were perimetral measures from the mother to the baby.
01:51The baby would stay a few days, come back, and the mother would receive him.
01:54Is it true that the mother was excited that a new couple of her son
01:58could take her on a new path?
02:01The couple she called 911,
02:04that same day she killed her, the mother gave her a little gift.
02:08She said, I hope you can help my son walk.
02:12Yes, that's the last boyfriend she had.
02:14That gift that the son's partner gives to his mother-in-law, let's say,
02:19was yesterday?
02:20Yesterday, yesterday afternoon.
02:22Yesterday afternoon.
02:23Yesterday afternoon.
02:24The mother was excited.
02:25Yes, she was very excited to change him.
02:26Yes.
02:27But he was always very aggressive with the mother, very aggressive, all the time.
02:30All the time.
02:31Yes.
02:32Yes.
02:33Well, thank you, Fabiana.
02:34No, you.
02:35Well, the testimony, obviously, of the couple, of this boy,
02:38could be fundamental in the cause.
02:40Of course.
02:41Because it could provide some key data.
02:44Although, obviously, it could also be investigated by the police.
02:50Beyond the fact that he will have to declare, in principle, as a witness.
02:54Of course.
02:55But, well, a dramatic situation that took place here in Villa Martelli.
02:58Diego, there the testimony of the neighbor allows us to realize
03:02and give a context that there was already a very conflictive relationship
03:05in that denoted attempt of the mother, over and over again, for the love of her son,
03:10to talk to the neighbor, to rescue him, to recover him.
03:14Even excited that with his new girlfriend,
03:17it could be a positive influence for him.
03:20We are talking about situations of consumption, of addiction situations,
03:24which also had this boy in a context that led him to be aggressive.
03:29The neighbor said he hit his own mother.
03:33Yes, yes.
03:34This had happened in recent times, in recent years.
03:38And, well, until ...
03:40Even this 19-year-old boy had gone through several couples in recent times.
03:45But this last couple, the boy who was his partner,
03:49both, obviously, of male gender.
03:52Well, the mother had been very excited about this new couple.
03:55But, even, said the neighbor,
03:58the neighbor had given him a gift yesterday,
04:03in some way, to encourage him to take his son on the right path.
04:07But, of course, the son, apparently, at night they would have had a discussion,
04:11and this directly triggered this murder,
04:15which tried to make it look like suicide,
04:17but the investigators, seeing, obviously, the situation,
04:20seeing the scene, put their eyes on the woman's son as responsible.
04:25Even, I tell you more, Bobby,
04:26the son, apparently, would have inflicted some wounds on his own hand,
04:32as to try to hide a fight with his mother.
04:36But, well, the investigators did not believe it and advanced to detention.
04:40Did they live together?
04:42Did they live together, asks Fabi.
04:44Let's see, yes, they lived together and no.
04:48That is, although it was the house they shared for a long time,
04:52every time there was some kind of conflict,
04:55or the perimeter was in force,
04:57the son was going to live somewhere else.
04:59But, after a certain time, he came back and they shared the same house.
05:03Diego, I already want to go through, in a minute or two, with you,
05:06what were the elements that begin to make the investigators doubt
05:11that something else had happened here and it was not the version of what the son said.
05:15But I want to rely on you, Fito,
05:17that we have talked about so many times.
05:19Because I realized, Diego, in his story, in the description of the fact,
05:22and also the neighbor, who is seen to know him closely,
05:25what was the hell that lived inside that house.
05:28And the denoted attempt, over and over again, of a mother,
05:32that sometimes, when you have to live the situation of having an addicted son,
05:38and the mother goes, tries,
05:40sometimes, many times, it happens that she does not know where to turn.
05:43We have talked so many times about a mental health law
05:47that sometimes it was intended to be a tool
05:50and it ended up being incomplete for these situations.
05:53What a hell, right?
05:54To have a mother who does not know where to turn
05:57and with what legal tools she can even count
06:00to protect her son,
06:03and so that her son, who is the most beloved,
06:05does not end up becoming the worst enemy.
06:08Few legal tools, Bobby.
06:10Few.
06:11Few.
06:12Obviously, the police,
06:14because of the shape of the wounds,
06:16you realize when someone committed suicide
06:19and when someone was murdered,
06:22with which the lie was going to last very little, as it lasted on the one hand.
06:26On the other hand, it is the drama of many mothers
06:30who are suffering today,
06:32in silence, in solitude,
06:34bearing, waiting for the attack of anger to pass,
06:38the attack of abstinence to the son.
06:41He goes to the municipality, he does not find answers.
06:44He goes to justice, he does not find answers.
06:47He goes to social work, Bobby, and he does not find answers.
06:50It is a scourge, it is a drama,
06:53which ends up being,
06:55these are the famous ones,
06:57murderer, in this case,
06:58thieves,
06:59who later take the lives of anyone else
07:01because they go out to steal in their desperation
07:03to get money to keep getting high.
07:06Because the first thing a mother or a father would try,
07:09and I also add to this, but there are many stories of mothers
07:11who have to face this alone, right?
07:13That is to say, hey, does anyone know a specialist in addictions?
07:16If it is private, see if you can pay for it.
07:18If it is not private, see in social works
07:20or in some public health system.
07:23There is the first search of a mother who has an addicted son.
07:26Now, when it is already seen,
07:28surpassed by this whole situation,
07:30and as in this case we see that there was already a history,
07:32even of violence,
07:34perhaps there, even to protect the child,
07:36there is the law, there is to file a complaint,
07:38there is to prevent a custody over that child.
07:42I had put a perimeter.
07:44Well, and there too.
07:45It seems that the tools that the law sometimes grants are insufficient.
07:49Because the perimeter,
07:51let's see, if I ask for a perimeter against you, Bobby,
07:54and then you come,
07:56and I accept that you rape her,
07:58for justice it is the same thing.
08:00Because if you don't tell the justice,
08:02if I don't tell her that you are raping her,
08:04or I accept that you come,
08:06with which the perimeter,
08:08and look, I'm going to say this,
08:10you see that it is always with proposals in this program.
08:13The perimeter, alone and per se, is useless.
08:17Because there was never as much femicide
08:20as in this time of perimeter.
08:22With which, when you put a perimeter on someone,
08:25if both parties do not do a psychological treatment
08:29so that they understand what the perimeter is
08:31and why they got to that,
08:33that a judge tells him, don't get close,
08:35don't defend anyone's life,
08:37the perimeter without psychological treatment,
08:40is nothing itself.
08:42Now, I was wondering, Jorge,
08:44you always propose military service,
08:46some issues,
08:48what to do in a situation like this?
08:51How to go back,
08:53to a child who begins to stray?
08:58Fito described it very well.
09:00But very well.
09:02Mothers who don't know what to do with these kids.
09:04Justice has no solution, as Fito said.
09:07For justice there is no solution.
09:09It is going to look for the municipality?
09:11Much less.
09:12And also, what Fito said,
09:14we look at the violent robberies that there are.
09:16And it has to do with these kids.
09:17But they steal to eat?
09:18They steal to feed?
09:19No, they steal to consume more and more drugs.
09:21In Argentina, more drugs are sold than bread.
09:23And justice looks the other way.
09:25This is a big issue that we will also have to,
09:28at least try in Congress.
09:30How is so much drug sold in kiosks?
09:32In warehouses?
09:33In boliches?
09:34And the police don't know?
09:36The police don't know?
09:37Yes, the police know.
09:38Justice doesn't know?
09:39Yes, justice knows.
09:40Congressmen, those who are in Congress, do they know?
09:42Yes, they know.
09:43Why don't they want to eradicate drugs?
09:45Is it because they finance their campaigns?
09:47It may be, it may be.
09:49And I was also thinking about how difficult it is
09:52for a mother in solitude,
09:53when she has to face the situation
09:55of a child who has fallen into an addiction.
09:58Because, in addition, there must be this trap, in quotes,
10:00of, as a mother of love, to get excited, right?
10:03As in this case, he had been excited
10:05with the appearance of a girlfriend
10:07who seemed like a good girl,
10:08who could also influence him positively.
10:11Also, every time he sees positive signs
10:15in that child, the one he loves,
10:17he stops seeing a situation of risk, right?
10:20Every time he gets excited
10:21that the child has an improvement,
10:24that, well, that's it, I see him better,
10:27and I haven't seen him violent for a while,
10:29I haven't seen him consuming for a while,
10:31and from there it is to allow again,
10:33where there were perimeters,
10:35the entry of an intimate enemy,
10:38I use that figure,
10:39an intimate enemy to his home.
10:41We have to improve the mental health law.
10:43We have to do something about that issue.
10:45But as Fito said,
10:46as Fito said,
10:47statistics say that perimeters
10:49were useless.
10:50There was never so much femicide.
10:52But you say that, but what would you do if not?
10:55What do you do with a boy who has an addiction?
10:57What do you do with a boy who has a mental health problem?
10:59If the mother, the relative in charge,
11:01because many times he,
11:02well, obviously he is a big person,
11:04he is 19 years old, if I'm not mistaken,
11:06the son is 19 years old,
11:07but many times,
11:08no matter how old they are,
11:09they need the mother or the father
11:11or someone close to them
11:13to really make the decision for them,
11:14because a sick person
11:15is never going to go to the hospital, never.
11:17Do you know where it is?
11:18There is a mistake with the mental health law.
11:19But we can't wait for the judge to do it.
11:21That's the issue.
11:22You can't wait to ask the judge
11:23to authorize you to intern someone.
11:25There is a big criticism,
11:27and I'm going to disagree with you, Jimen,
11:29a very big criticism of the mental health law,
11:31because before,
11:33many women,
11:35the husband went,
11:36got the signature from a psychiatrist,
11:37said he was crazy,
11:39put her in a place,
11:40gave her pills,
11:41and went there for a long time.
11:43What happens?
11:44Or sometimes some children too.
11:45There are children.
11:46Very old parents.
11:47Very old parents.
11:49They had a minimum degree of senility,
11:51and instead of attending them,
11:52if they had always had a conflictive relationship,
11:54they did the same, right?
11:55No, he's crazy, he's crazy.
11:57But that's what the controls are for.
11:59But that's what you make a control for.
12:01There is a very famous congressman
12:03who has a cause,
12:04the Cohen-Cohen cause,
12:06that they look for him,
12:07that he signed,
12:08that an older woman,
12:09who later proved not to,
12:11but she was in a psychiatrist for a while.
12:13The mental health law,
12:14I'm going to defend it in this.
12:16The judge would have to go to a mother
12:20and tell her,
12:21look, my son has an addiction problem.
12:23There, immediately,
12:24do the experiment,
12:26and if it gives,
12:27that he has an addiction problem,
12:28the judge will order it.
12:29What happens is that the problem is not the mental health law.
12:31But it takes a long time.
12:32No, let me finish.
12:33It doesn't take a long time.
12:34The problem is not the mental health law.
12:36The problem is the factors
12:38that articulate the mental health law.
12:40Because if I'm a judge,
12:41and this boy brings me,
12:42I tell him to do it,
12:43and he says yes,
12:44the next day,
12:45the next day,
12:46he is hospitalized,
12:47it is not a long time.
12:48What happens is that the judges do not act
12:50or apply the law in that situation.
12:53There is the main problem.
12:54I agree with you.
12:55So that's the problem,
12:56that it takes a long time
12:57until the judge arrives,
12:58determines,
12:59in many cases,
13:00you arrive late.
13:01No, no, it's not long.
13:02It's infinite,
13:03because he never does it.
13:04Well.
13:05No, the problem is that someone knows,
13:06from here,
13:07someone knows that the judge
13:08ordered someone to be hospitalized.
13:09No.
13:10For addiction.
13:11So it's infinite.
13:12Well,
13:13but then the problem
13:14is not only the issue
13:15of mental health itself,
13:16but also the judicial power
13:17that does not act
13:18as it should act.
13:19No, no,
13:20it has nothing to do
13:21with the judicial power.
13:22Ah,
13:23it has nothing to do with it.
13:24No,
13:25the judicial power,
13:26no.
13:27The judicial power
13:28is with reality.
13:29A farm today
13:30costs you 300,000,
13:31400,000 pesos,
13:32and as Fito said before,
13:33the social works
13:34do not cover it.
13:35And the state
13:36looks the other way,
13:37this issue.
13:38Do you see farms
13:39that are from the state
13:40where you say,
13:41well,
13:42here in San Fernando
13:43there is no justice,
13:44but there is.
13:45But we agree
13:46that justice is slow
13:47to do certain things.
13:48No, justice is not slow.
13:49For me it is slow, yes.
13:50There are two aspects here.
13:51The first,
13:52in which we all agree
13:53that there is a lack
13:54of money from the state
13:55and for those of us
13:56who need it,
13:57that there where a family
13:58faces the drama
13:59of an addiction
14:00and nobody is exempt
14:01from that,
14:02and it goes through
14:03all social classes,
14:04it is not just one,
14:05in some there may be more,
14:06in others there may be less,
14:07but it is of all social classes.
14:08So,
14:09that real drama
14:10that impacts,
14:11goes through
14:12emotionally,
14:13in the daily life
14:14of a family,
14:15that is where
14:16you are going to resort.
14:17The first option
14:18is to say,
14:19hey,
14:20if it happens to me,
14:21does anyone know
14:22a good place
14:23where I can take my son?
14:24It is the first thing
14:25that one does
14:26in a family environment.
14:27It is there where they are missing.
14:28It is there where they are missing.
14:29Where there are them,
14:30it is as Jorge says,
14:31they come out,
14:32sorry to say it like this,
14:33this afternoon,
14:34they come out like an egg,
14:35they come out like money
14:36that sometimes
14:37a family does not have,
14:38because it is also
14:39a family
14:40that in an addicted child
14:41everything he tried
14:42economically
14:43to get him out
14:44of that situation,
14:45it is going to affect
14:46economically
14:47if the child
14:48because of his addiction
14:49takes money
14:50from the family environment
14:51again and again.
14:52So,
14:53there are many questions.
14:54There is where
14:55one wants to resort,
14:56there are not.
14:57If they are private,
14:58most of the time
14:59the one who can pay
15:00pays it
15:01and it is already
15:02a very hard way
15:03forward.
15:04I already complete you,
15:05Jime.
15:06It is very hard
15:07to travel the way
15:08even being able
15:09to pay it.
15:10So,
15:11Jime,
15:12what is the question?
15:13Hey,
15:14where the question
15:15has already happened
15:16to the elderly,
15:17where there is already
15:18a child who even becomes
15:19violent with his
15:20own family environment,
15:21who steals his mother,
15:22who steals his family,
15:23that you see
15:24how he gets
15:25into the crime
15:26and he is not that
15:27little boy of 2,
15:283,
15:294,
15:305 years old
15:31that at some point
15:32was the light
15:33of your eyes
15:34and you raised him,
15:35there is where
15:36there is also
15:37lack of help
15:38and there is where
15:39is the danger
15:40that we are going
15:41to face.
15:42So,
15:43Jime,
15:44I open the game
15:45to the debate
15:46and in a minute
15:47I want to go back
15:48to Diego
15:49because I do not
15:50want to forget
15:51this story
15:52of how to begin
15:53to go the way
15:54of why in the
15:55investigation
15:56they began
15:57to suspect
15:58that what
15:59seemed
16:00a suicide
16:01was something else.
16:02Tell me.
16:03I say that it is
16:04not a danger
16:05only for,
16:06it is a danger
16:07to him,
16:08People don't put others at risk, or the person who has an addiction, or has a mental problem, and is not going to be admitted. Never.
16:15I think if we talk to a specialist, he will tell you, never a sick person goes alone, by his own decision, to be admitted. Never.
16:22I disagree, but how is the judge going to decide? Because it needs the authorization of the addict. This is unusual.
16:27But the person who has a mental problem ...
16:29As Fito said, which he also explained, today I am with Fito in everything, because he also said that before the husband and others went to the other extreme.
16:36But now we went to the other extreme. How are we going to ask the addict if he wants to be admitted?
16:40If he is sick, if he has an addiction problem, if he steals from his grandmother to go buy drugs.
16:44But then what does he have to do?
16:46The state has to do it. The state has to take charge.
16:48You have to put farms and tell them, ma'am, your son stole, your son is going to kill you, we are going to admit him until he heals.
16:54I ask you, do you have an addicted son?
16:56He sells more drugs than bread, I repeat.
16:58Do you have an addicted son inside your house?
17:00Yes.
17:02That big creature does not want to go and say, I am addicted.
17:06But you know that his life is in danger, the lives of others are in danger.
17:10It can cause a tragedy.
17:12As a father, we have to report this, we have to go to court.
17:15Do you think that parents do not report?
17:17Well, but that's why I tell you, first you have to intervene in justice.
17:21Do you know how the mother suffers if the parents with the children are addicted?
17:25Do you know how he suffers? They kick him out of work, they kick him out of school.
17:28But that's for sure.
17:29Give me a second so I can go back to Diego.
17:31A point here.
17:32That same person we are talking about now, that he is an addict, that he needs rehabilitation, if he went out to steal, he is a thief who deserves jail.
17:40Yes, as it is.
17:41That same person, when he went out to steal, we forget that he was an addict and that he needed rehabilitation, he is a thief who deserves jail.
17:49And if he kills, what happens?
17:50Because in that case you crossed paths with him in another way, you crossed paths with him committing a crime.
17:55He still needs rehabilitation.
17:56Yes, yes, perfect.
17:57I can understand the reaction of whoever is the victim of that crime, which is surely not this accent of violence.
18:03I say that if we got there before, there would be no such victim.
18:05Of course.
18:06That is the debate we are having.
18:08Because I go back to something that Fito says, if we all refer to the areas where we live, there is a place where I live, and I will not say where, so that they do not start calling,
18:16because later, if not, some tenants believe that it is against them.
18:19There is a place where I live and another place where I lived almost all my life and I still live a good part of my family and I visit permanently.
18:26Between those two places, if you ask me now, of those two places that I know a lot, where there is a farm of recovery, a place of recovery for addicts,
18:35and I have to tell you the truth with a hand in the connoisseur, I do not know any.
18:38I do not know where, you ask me in the street, some that I know, I know those that as a journalist we have made notes a lot of times.
18:44Now, if you tell me, from today, tomorrow, it's my turn in my family, I have to take someone, I do not know where to grab.
18:51I tell you the truth, I do not know a place to go to ring the bell or knock on the door.
18:54You know how good it is what you say.
18:56And how tragic, I make it short, you look for a farm, there is no.
18:59Now you ask in the neighborhood where they sell drugs, everyone knows.
19:02I also have to give you the reasons.
19:06And the last thing, Bobby, Argentina does not produce drugs, it does not produce.
19:10How many things corrupt to get to the urban cone, how much corrupts to get there.
19:18We also have to look at that.
19:20Diego, I go back a minute to you, because it was pending to consult you,
19:24there where we are talking about this case that has to do with a son,
19:27who denounces or presents himself before the police, denouncing a suicide of his mother,
19:33and the investigators who end up determining the opposite.