On today’s episode, Editor in Chief Sarah Wheeler talks with Jason Mitchell, founder of the Jason Mitchell Group about his experience being sued by the CFPB and the larger implications of the case.
Related to this episode:
CFPB sues Rocket, The Jason Mitchell Group over RESPA violations | HousingWire
https://www.housingwire.com/articles/cfpb-sues-rocket-the-jason-mitchell-group-over-respa/
Enjoy the episode!
The HousingWire Daily podcast brings the full picture of the most compelling stories in the housing market reported across HousingWire. Each morning, listen to editor in chief Sarah Wheeler talk to leading industry voices and get a deeper look behind the scenes of the top mortgage and real estate stories. Hosted and produced by the HousingWire Content Studio.
Related to this episode:
CFPB sues Rocket, The Jason Mitchell Group over RESPA violations | HousingWire
https://www.housingwire.com/articles/cfpb-sues-rocket-the-jason-mitchell-group-over-respa/
Enjoy the episode!
The HousingWire Daily podcast brings the full picture of the most compelling stories in the housing market reported across HousingWire. Each morning, listen to editor in chief Sarah Wheeler talk to leading industry voices and get a deeper look behind the scenes of the top mortgage and real estate stories. Hosted and produced by the HousingWire Content Studio.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Welcome, everyone.
00:06My guest today is Jason Mitchell, founder of the Jason Mitchell Group, or JMG, to talk
00:11about his experience being sued by the CFPB for RESPA violations and how this case could
00:17impact everyone involved in the housing transaction.
00:20In 2024, JMG was recognized as the number one real estate team in the nation by volume,
00:26by RealTrends.
00:27Jason, welcome to the podcast.
00:30Thank you for having me.
00:31Great to have you on, and I just appreciate you wanting to jump on and talk about a topic
00:36that is very trendy and very relevant to your life as it's still happening.
00:41That's pretty rare.
00:42We're going to be talking about the CFPB.
00:44We're going to be talking about RESPA and some of the actions that they've taken.
00:48So just to catch people up, you guys were named in an action in December, really towards
00:55right before Christmas, I think, about a kickback scheme with Rocket, and I just want
01:04to have you on.
01:05Let's talk about that.
01:06How did that happen?
01:07How did you find out?
01:09Were you already on Christmas break?
01:11How did that go?
01:12Yeah, it was a great holiday present for my family.
01:17I think it's probably by design.
01:20It's stressful, and it's also something that when I look back at how all this transpired,
01:28it was just a pure decision on doing what's right and doing the right thing and deciding
01:35do you want to take a path that if you choose to settle and be done with it and put it behind
01:43you, that's great.
01:45You don't have to worry about it again, and everything moves forward, and you don't have
01:50to worry about the stress and what I'm going through now because I chose to say I don't
01:56agree with this, and I think you're wrong, and I want to stick up for what I believe
02:01is right, and I think that we're defending industry, not just ourselves or Rocket.
02:06I think we're defending industry, and when people read into the case, I think that unfortunately,
02:12whether it be fortunate or unfortunately, I have to be the guy now, and it's not something
02:17I wish on anybody because it is stressful, but I strongly feel that we're right.
02:22I know we're right, and I believe that we will prevail significantly, and I think that
02:27when you're somebody like myself, it's very hard because I feel like in a sense I'm on
02:37an island because I'm not a big brand name.
02:42I'm not popular.
02:43I don't have a TV show.
02:45I'm just a guy that goes to work every day that our real estate company does well, and
02:51we're really proud of what we do, but the reality is that we're not a big company.
02:55We're not well-known.
02:56I'm not popular, and so you feel on an island because no one's coming to you and saying,
03:00can you tell me what really happened here?
03:04People reach out to the big companies, and they get to make statements and whatnot, and
03:10I don't have that because we're not this big company in bright, shiny lights.
03:16We're just JMG, and so to have people that have reached out to get your side, it's nice
03:24because I want people to know the truth, and I want people to know really what happened
03:29in this from a completely honest perspective of what is going on here and how it does impact
03:35our industry.
03:37I mean, just like an outpour of people saying, good for you, and we got your back.
03:45So many of our partners have called and said, no, we get it.
03:48We're not going anywhere.
03:49We love you.
03:50You run great business, and you're great at what you do, and that meant a lot because
03:54like I said, you feel on an island in a sense.
03:56Every day, you're in defense mode now because you feel like you've got to defend your character,
04:00which really, honestly, it's not fun, and to get the support for people that you love
04:07and you care about and partners call on you saying, we got you, Jay.
04:11It's been really great knowing that you have people out there supporting you.
04:17I'm really glad you've gotten that support.
04:19Let's take a step back and talk about RESPA in general.
04:22The whole thing, bringing a suit like this, I think since its inception, RESPA has been
04:28really tricky, and it's been hard for people to navigate like, what does this mean?
04:33Because we were talking before the podcast started, our whole business, housing, is based
04:40on relationships, and so maybe talk a little bit about why you think that this was misguided
04:45and wrong based on what you guys actually do.
04:48Well, I think there's a number of things there, and you know, Clayton and I talked a couple
04:55weeks ago, and he had one of the best points of anybody I've talked to, and he said, well,
04:59I guess they're saying that every real estate agent should be a licensed loan officer then,
05:03and I was like, that's a very smart comment, right?
05:07Because that's essentially what they're implying, and so what it is is the CFPB is saying there's
05:11a quid pro quo and that Rocket Mortgage and JMG were in this scheme together to steer
05:18clients back and forth.
05:21And I must say, that's a really high honor to think that Rocket Mortgage, you know, the
05:27largest mortgage company on planet Earth, cares that much that they would break federal
05:32law to get JMG's business.
05:34Rocket Mortgage is 180 times bigger than JMG.
05:39We are a rounding error to Rocket Mortgage, and quite frankly, to a lot of the partners
05:43that we work with, too.
05:44I mean, we work with major organizations.
05:48Forget Rocket, none of my partners, none of them would ever break federal law to say,
05:56you give us all your business, and we'll give you as much of our business as you can.
06:00It doesn't work that way.
06:02It's very simple.
06:04You take great care of our clients, and we're going to make sure that as long as they have
06:08a great experience, if we have another opportunity for you, then we'll probably send it your
06:14way, but there's other partners as well.
06:16There's not just JMG.
06:17Most of our partnerships have hundreds of real estate professionals that they work with,
06:20right?
06:21It's our job to raise the bar and to compete and be really good at what we do in order
06:26to service their consumers.
06:28Here was the problem that the CFPB is claiming that there was, and this is why I think, Sarah,
06:32this is why I think it's an industry thing that our industry needs to step up and say,
06:36whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute.
06:37That's no, no, no, because as our agents were receiving referrals and opportunity from Rocket,
06:45the quid pro quo they're saying is, we made our agents send them business, which is unequivocally
06:53not true, and or that our agents started sending them business in the first place, claiming
06:58that because Rocket sent you business, your agents started sending them business, and
07:02that's something of value, and you were forcing consumers to use Rocket.
07:07My first response to that is, one, we don't do that, two, we can't force consumers to
07:12use a specific lender because any real estate professional watching this would say, if I
07:17tried to force my client to use a lender and they already had a lender or they just didn't
07:23want to do that, if I tried to do that, I would lose my client.
07:27My client would say, no, I want to use my local credit union or I want to use this person,
07:30and you know what real estate agents say?
07:32They say, no problem.
07:33As long as you can buy a home, I'm going to try to sell you a home.
07:36It's hard enough to sell houses as it is, let alone to make sure they use a certain
07:40lender, but my point of this sending opportunity to Rocket, in this case, is very simple.
07:49Our agents were a benefactor of putting good quality consumers on their lap to, say, sell
07:54them a home, and for that, my agent said, okay, great.
07:59Here's a company that's helping support my business.
08:01If they get an opportunity, they may send it to Rocket.
08:05We don't force them to.
08:06We don't even ask them to, but if they choose to do that, that's how business works.
08:12It's not just Rocket.
08:13It's the other lending partners that we're proud to service and we're proud to have a
08:18partnership with.
08:19They're supporting our agents too.
08:21If they happen to say, look, I met Sarah at an open house, her and her husband at an open
08:26house.
08:27I work with so-and-so lender.
08:29They're really good.
08:30You should give them a call, and they give them a call.
08:33That's the way business is done.
08:35If what we're doing is wrong, I go back to, if it's wrong to have either a lender or a
08:43real estate professional send business to somebody because they know they're good at
08:47what they do and they can trust their client with that person, and then that person down
08:51the road does the same thing in exchange for that because they know that they're really
08:56good at what they do, if that's wrong, then every retail loan officer in the country,
09:01when they wake up every day and grind and hit the pavement and say, Mr. Realtor, will
09:06you come have coffee with me?
09:07Can I take you to lunch?
09:08Can we talk about the programs and products that I have?
09:11Can we talk about how I'm a great loan officer?
09:13They start to do business together, and they start to send clients to one another because
09:18the relationship is there built on trust.
09:21Then our whole industry is wrong because that's the way this works.
09:25You're not sending clients saying, you send me your business, then I'll send you mine.
09:29What you're doing is saying, I know this person's really good, and I know my client
09:33can have a good experience with this company or this agent or this loan officer, and that's
09:39why I'm sending you to this person because they're good.
09:44I had to go to a doctor three weeks ago, and when I was at the doctors, they had mentioned
09:49that I need to see a specialist for, I had a bump behind my back, and they said, you
09:56need to see a specialist for that.
09:58I said, okay.
09:59When I walked out of the doctor's office, they gave me my referral paperwork, and on
10:03that referral paperwork, it says specifically, call this doctor and schedule your appointment
10:10in seven days, and it lists the doctor's name, his office, the address, and the number.
10:15What did I do?
10:16I called that doctor because I trust that this physician is giving me into the hands
10:22of somebody that's really good at what they do so I don't have to go find somebody and
10:26maybe make a mistake.
10:28Every industry works on relationship, so I don't know, and that's why when I was facing
10:34the decision, do I settle and put this behind me or do I defend not just Rocket or myself,
10:38do I defend every referral partner that's been in business since forever, and basically,
10:44every major lending company, search company, reload company, they all have a network of
10:49agents that they want their consumers to work with if they don't have a realtor because
10:54they know they'll get a better experience.
10:56That's what we do, and that's how this world works, so for the tens of thousands of agents,
11:02real estate professionals out there that are a byproduct of receiving referrals organizationally,
11:09this is what this case is about.
11:11It feels like so much of this is just a total misunderstanding of how this business works.
11:18I think an agent is going to, if they're at the soccer field on Saturday and they're talking
11:25to someone and they're interested or they're trying to get something fast, they're going
11:29to call the lender they know is going to answer the phone Saturday at 6 o'clock at night
11:33and get on, or maybe they don't answer the phone, maybe they have this great automated
11:38thing that helps, but to your point, if they're not giving it to the best people, they're
11:44not going to keep the business, and to me, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau,
11:50where they should get involved is where consumers are being harmed, and in this, there's nothing
11:55about where is a consumer harmed by these relationships, and that's what I don't understand.
12:00Quite frankly, thank God for these lenders and these networks that represent major lenders
12:07because you know what they do, if you want to look at this and you say, well, it should
12:13be consumer choice, well guess what it is, because the question is, are you working with
12:19a real estate professional right now, and if the answer is yes, great, we hope you have
12:23a great experience and that we can work with you on your loan.
12:26If the answer is no, then would you like us to connect you with a great real estate professional
12:33that we know and trust?
12:34I would love that.
12:36Well, that's a good thing for a consumer to go work with a great real estate agent.
12:41That's why these amazing networks that are the conduit for whether it be big banks or
12:47whether it be reload companies, those networks are so vital to ensuring that these consumers
12:53have a great experience because let's face it, there are really great real estate agents
12:58out there and there are really bad real estate agents out there, and for a consumer to go
13:03hunt and search instead of right now I can connect you with someone great, I'd love to
13:08talk to them.
13:09That makes not just the experience but the process smoother, and you know the other thing
13:13too is all of a sudden these agents now that are getting and receiving these referrals,
13:18they've worked with that lending institution before.
13:21Now they know how their process works, the LO knows how our process works, and you work
13:28in harmony with the consumer to have a better experience.
13:31In many cases, the consumer actually is rewarded when doing so and working with either that
13:36network or that lender, which is even a greater gift to the consumer.
13:41But when you talk about the relationship value of referring somebody you trust, that is a
13:49good thing for consumers.
13:52There's no steering, and you know by the way too, talking about measurables and conversion
13:58and all these things, every major partner I work with and the other partners of these
14:06organizations work with, it's very simple.
14:09Provide a great real estate experience and take care of our client.
14:13That's what we want you to do, period, end of story.
14:16There is no, we're going to give you more if you give us more.
14:18Not one of them, not one of them has that measurable of, we want you to reciprocate
14:24as much business back to us as possible, not one of them.
14:29These network and banking institutions work on something that's very crystal clear.
14:33Give a five-star experience to these consumers, and if you don't, then you're never going
14:37to get the ability to work with our clients again.
14:40If you do, we'll hopefully have more for you in the future.
14:43That's how they all work.
14:45And I would think on the same way, that's what they're looking for, right?
14:47I mean, they don't want to, if someone comes to them and doesn't know, they're like, yeah,
14:52it's all reputation.
14:53Well, let me ask you specifically, in this case against you, it was talking specifically
14:58about gift cards, so I'd love for you to talk to that directly, and then what would a kickback
15:06look like?
15:07In this relationship thing, how do you define a kickback?
15:11Because no one thinks a kickback is a good idea.
15:15I don't even know.
15:16One, that's just not true.
15:17We did not do that, and when you think about the ridiculousness of that statement, and
15:22the statement basically says for every referral we sent Rocket, that I gave my agents a $250
15:28gift card.
15:29Okay.
15:30One, I'd be out of business.
15:31Two, our agents would never, ever risk forcing a consumer to get a prequel with a mortgage
15:39lender on the fear that they may lose that client, okay?
15:44A lot of times when you send a client over to get a prequel, Rocket or any other lender,
15:49they may not qualify.
15:52They may not even move forward on a home, so if I'm just throwing out gift cards left
15:56and right saying, yeah, send a referral over, here's $250, $250 for you.
15:59I sound like Oprah.
16:00$250 for you.
16:01$250 for you.
16:02That's absurd.
16:03It's absolutely absurd.
16:06It didn't happen, and we would never give our agents a $250 gift card when they referred
16:12a client to a specific mortgage partner.
16:15I don't even know how to manage that because I don't even know when they're necessarily
16:19sending a referral.
16:20There's no way to track and monitor that anyway, so it's unequivocally not true, and when you
16:29talk about real estate itself and how business is done, we can recommend a specific lender
16:36to a client.
16:37There's nothing wrong with that.
16:39Now, if they choose to use them, great, and if they don't, that's their decision.
16:45There's not an agent out there that would jeopardize making a commission and their livelihood
16:52over saying, but I have to do these things.
16:54Another thing I thought was, hopefully these numbers are numbers that you can say, whoa,
17:01now this doesn't really make sense, so they claim steering in the suit.
17:07We pulled the numbers, MMI, which is one of the best data companies out there when
17:14it comes to getting information on data.
17:17We had them pull a report for us, and we did 2003 and 2000, 2022 and 2023.
17:25Of the buyers that we originated, so the consumers that we originated to buy a home, I'll talk
17:31about Rockets-originated buyers next, but of the ones that we originated on our own
17:35outside of Rocket, 3.3% of those people in 2022 closed with Rocket.
17:43In 2023, it was 3.8.
17:48If I was forcing my agents to force these consumers to use Rocket Mortgage, I would
17:54think that we would have less than a 4% conversion, or our closings would have closed them.
18:03What that's indicating is 97% of these consumers closed with another lender outside of Rocket
18:10Mortgage.
18:11The list of lenders, there's hundreds and hundreds of them.
18:14That just shows you that our agents have their own relationships, and or consumers are choosing
18:20to use who they want to for their financing.
18:23When you talk about the opportunities that Rocket sent us, that conversion was two out
18:30of three.
18:31One out of three times, the consumer went elsewhere.
18:35The reason for the higher conversion is very simple.
18:38They originated the consumer.
18:41If they're getting the pre-call, they're happy, they spent an hour on the phone, they're sending
18:44in docs, they're down that path already.
18:47Of course, they're probably going to close at a higher ratio if they got started with
18:51a specific lender to begin with.
18:54When you look at us steering, or forcing consumers, or forcing our agents that they
19:03have to use a specific lender, the numbers tell you the truth.
19:0697% of the time, it didn't happen.
19:09You would argue, given Rocket's advertising and marketing power of those 3%, a lot of
19:15them found them on their own, not even through us.
19:19It's just, I don't know, it's very frustrating.
19:23What do you think is behind that?
19:25From your own perspective, when you look and you're like, why are we being dragged into
19:29this when the numbers don't support it?
19:32I'm sure you ask all the time, why?
19:34What's the endgame?
19:36I don't know.
19:37I have a feeling, I was fortunate enough to be on Rocket's agent advisory board for many
19:44years, which is a collective group of real estate professionals that brainstorm and think
19:48about industry.
19:52I've been part of many of those, actually, and they've been really great.
19:56I learn a lot, and we have great collaboration within that group.
20:03I was also on their website as one of their agents that was part of the in-house realty
20:07slash Rocket Homes network for a long time.
20:10They were my first partner.
20:11I'm from Detroit, and obviously, Rocket from Detroit, and so I had a lot of ties.
20:15They started sending me business when I was an agent in the field years and years ago.
20:20I don't know if it's because I was visible on the site.
20:24I don't know because the reality is it could have been anybody, and that's part of what
20:30I was trying to explain to the CFPB, which they were never mean to me.
20:35They were never rude to me.
20:37I think what they're doing now is a witch hunt on me.
20:40I really believe that.
20:41I do.
20:43I think that I was being used as a pawn to sign this because the deal was, all of a sudden
20:48on Friday, I have to make a decision.
20:50You're either going to settle this and be done with it and move on and sign this document,
20:53or we're going to sue you.
20:59The changes I would have had to make to my business were minimal.
21:01In fact, many of the things they wanted us to change, we don't even do.
21:05There's a lot of legacy stuff in there, and we had no problem with it because it was nothing.
21:13The problem I had was the consent order, and signing that consent order meant that I was
21:20looking at these things, and they say the term, I'm neither admitting or denying these
21:25things.
21:26Sarah, the problem was those things didn't exist.
21:32If I signed off on those things, one, I thought I was turning our back on our industry, but
21:37two, I was certainly turning our back on what I truly believe in and what I felt that Rocket
21:42didn't do, and that wasn't fair.
21:43That's not fair.
21:45I chose to go now through this stress and this hell because I said, no, I'm not going
21:50to do that.
21:51I think what's going on is I'm kind of this conduit to nail the big fish, and it sucks.
21:59It's not fun, but again, all I can do is go to work every day, and when people ask, tell
22:05them the truth and tell them that it's not possible for us to steer our clients into
22:11writing a mortgage.
22:12We don't do that.
22:13We would never do that, nor is it even possible.
22:17Clients choose their own financing.
22:18We don't care who they choose for their financing.
22:21We just want to give a good experience.
22:22To your point, at some point of the tens of thousands of deals that we closed, one consumer
22:29would have said, my agent forced me to use this crappy mortgage company.
22:32Not one complaint, not one complaint, never an agent of ours saying, I left JMG or I was
22:38fired from JMG because they were making me use this specific company.
22:44It doesn't exist because it never existed.
22:46Wow.
22:47Where are you in this process, having said no to the consent order?
22:52You're right in there.
22:55We all think things are going to be different under the Trump administration.
22:58Right now, they're not.
22:59Rohit Chopra is still the director of the CFPB as of this moment.
23:05What does this look like for you right now?
23:08For me, it's uncharted.
23:09I'm just following the lead of our attorneys and saying, we're filing our motion to dismiss.
23:14Again, you don't know these things behind closed doors because you're not pervy to them.
23:21I have been on the phone with people that I've never met before saying, what you don't
23:27realize is the industry is starting to rally around you because they know this is crap
23:32and it does affect our industry.
23:36It means so much because you do feel like you're on an island, like you're on this fight
23:40on your own.
23:41If people are saying, well, you got Rockets attorneys, this and that, no, that's not true.
23:44They got their own case and I got my own case.
23:46It's not what you may think where I'm going to be so protected because I got a $30 billion
23:51company that's fighting this.
23:52It's not that simple.
23:54I got to fight my own battles here and it's expensive.
23:59I think it's the right thing to do.
24:01I know it's the right thing to do.
24:02The question is, were you better off putting it behind you?
24:07If I did that, if I did that, you're just a sellout and I don't want to be a sellout.
24:16Wow.
24:17Well, I can hear it in your voice.
24:18There's conviction here.
24:19Obviously, you put your money where your mouth is.
24:21You put your money where your mouth is because you're like, it would have been easier and
24:24probably less expensive to sign the consent order.
24:30Do they have any sort of, do your attorneys have any sort of timeline and have they said
24:35that there might be a, and obviously if I'm asking something you can't answer, you can
24:38tell me, but like, or have they said, listen, this might all just go away in a few weeks?
24:45What I want is I want it to be dismissed on the, I want it to be dismissed period.
24:54I would love for it to get dismissed and say there's no merit because what the hard
25:00part is, I know there's people out there that, that work with us and that know me that are
25:06defending our character.
25:09And I feel like I've had to put people to defend my character and that doesn't feel
25:13good because I don't want them to have to do that.
25:16I'm so happy they're doing that.
25:18It makes me, it makes me proud to have people that, that know you that are defending you,
25:22but I don't want to, I don't want to make people defend your name.
25:24You know?
25:25And I, so the vindication for me is going to be when the day that I can say either we
25:29won or it got dismissed is so I can turn back and say, thank you.
25:35Thank you for being by my side.
25:37Thank you for, because you know, companies that get a little bit scared, I get it cause
25:41the optics don't look good.
25:43But when you, when you really drill down into it, I had, I had a, a gentleman who was one
25:48of the number one resp attorneys in the country.
25:50His name is Mark Sturckow and he called me and we had a discussion and, and it was, it
25:57was really relieving to have somebody that's that good at what they do and that smart say,
26:01this is one of the worst, worst complaints I've ever seen in my life.
26:06I'm really sorry you're going through this, but my goodness, this is really bad.
26:11And so it's good that there's a lot of support behind what's going on and that and that people
26:18are looking at this saying, wait a minute, this, this doesn't, this doesn't pass the
26:23sniff test whatsoever.
26:25So hopefully we get there sooner than later.
26:29Our attorneys are doing their thing and I have, you know, they're really great.
26:32I'm really happy with my counsel.
26:35But you know, you're thinking about it every day.
26:39You know, I got three kids at home, 13, eight, and two.
26:42I'd rather go home at night and play with them and, and, and worry about that than every
26:45day you wake up.
26:46And before you go to bed, you're thinking about what does tomorrow bring?
26:49Because that's been the part where every day you're waking up, you're kind of putting your
26:52gloves up because you don't know what's going to get thrown at you for something that is
26:56frivolous.
26:57That's, that's the hard part.
26:58That's the stressful part.
27:00I can only imagine.
27:01I also, you know, let's, let's take a second to say that, you know, these regulatory bodies,
27:07they work for the American people.
27:09They work for consumers and especially the CFPB.
27:11And the thought that, you know, that strong arm tactic of like, we're bringing this to
27:15you and you have to tell us by the end of the day or else all this, like that's, that's
27:21in and of itself.
27:22Like, we're not talking about like, you know, we're not watching an SVU episode here.
27:25We're like, you know, we've got to catch this terrible, like, what are we talking about
27:30here?
27:31Why, why does it have to be decided that day?
27:32Something that's very important.
27:34I told, there was somebody that reached out, a journalist, and what I said to them was
27:39I said, because he asked me, what's my thoughts about the CFPB?
27:43And I said, I have no problem with the CFPB.
27:46I want there to be people that protect consumers.
27:48I want people to, to be held accountable when they take advantage of elderly people or minorities
27:54and they're sitting there ripping them off or they're playing them for stupid because
27:57they're buying their home at wholesale for 50%, you know, for 50 cents on the dollar
28:01and taking people's net worth or, or people that are being discriminated against because
28:06they can't buy a home because of the color of their skin, that's BS.
28:10And I think that's why the CFPB should be there because that we need layers of protection
28:15for consumers.
28:16Cause unfortunately there's some scumbags out there, but in, in some of these cases,
28:21and when you look at my case, tell me where a consumer was harmed.
28:26Right.
28:27You know, they, they said to me, did you know that people that, that, that got these mortgages
28:33that many of them paid more on their monthly payment?
28:36And I said, I don't, how would I know that I don't write the loan?
28:41You know, I don't have anything to do with the mortgage.
28:43And so there, you know, a lot of this stuff was trying to, trying to either it was feel
28:50guilty or have some sense of like involvement with anything to do with the mortgage.
28:56And the reality is, is we don't have anything to do with the mortgage.
29:00And one of the things, and I go back to my, at the beginning of this, when I was telling
29:04you, I was speaking with Clayton and going back to, so do you want every, every real
29:08estate agent to be a loan officer now?
29:10Because what they were indicating was we should be giving advice to our consumers that they
29:14should seek alternative financing.
29:16And I said, well, wait a minute, hold on a second.
29:17So, so if any lender sends a real estate, any lending institution sends their third
29:23party real estate company or a network send a referral out to a, to an agent, to a realtor,
29:29you want that realtor to say, I know this lending institution is really good, but you
29:34should probably talk to these other people.
29:36Like that is crazy because you're now saying real estate, there was, you know, notes in
29:45a system that said, um, Rocket has good first, great first time home buyer programs.
29:50You're going to have a good experience with them.
29:52And I was yet to explain to that.
29:54And I said, well, what's wrong with that?
29:56Well, they don't have the best first time home buyer programs.
29:59I said, they don't?
30:02Like based on what factor, based on credit score, based on down payment, based on how
30:07quickly they want to close, like that's a slippery slope.
30:10When you start saying somebody shouldn't say that that's a good lender and there's better
30:13lenders for that, which one?
30:16I mean, I mean, it's crazy to, it's crazy to say that, to make those statements that,
30:21that real estate professionals should now know all the different lending products and
30:25programs and who's better at what, uh, and advise clients on that information.
30:29That's, that, that's ludicrous.
30:30Also, you know, we went through this whole thing with Trid back in the day so that, you
30:36know, uh, consumers get a closing disclosure and they have time to shop the loan.
30:41Like the whole thing is set up so that even once you're, even when you've picked a lender
30:45for whatever reason, your own or through, you know, a trusted party, you have the opportunity
30:51all the way through that process to, to change.
30:54Otherwise, why did we do all that with Trid and the mortgage industry turned themselves
30:58inside out to make sure that they get a closing disclosure, that they get the right disclosures
31:02at the right time so that they can figure out what they want to do.
31:05And it shows that consumers very rarely shop even after all that, they just don't because
31:11they don't know anything about it.
31:12And it's just like you with the surgeon, you're like, Hey, trusted person with my health,
31:16tell me who should cut me open.
31:18Like you don't want to go, I mean, why would you then go and go, let me do my own research.
31:22Someone who has, knows nothing about surgeons.
31:24We don't want real estate agents getting involved with the financing.
31:27I mean, our job's very simple.
31:29Show, show me the letter.
31:32Good to go.
31:33Call, call the LO.
31:34Yep.
31:35They're great.
31:36Let's go find you a home.
31:37I mean, it's just that simple.
31:39process to, to stay away from anything financing or any of that, any of those related issues,
31:45we should never get involved with that.
31:46And to even whisper that we should be getting involved with that and seeking these alternative
31:52lenders.
31:54You know, if a real estate agent has a good recommendation of a lender, great, but that's
32:00where it should begin and end.
32:02You know what I mean?
32:03Like I know Sarah is a great loan officer.
32:04Give her a call.
32:05That's where it should begin and end.
32:06Not getting involved too.
32:08Well, Sarah has these programs that if you put 5% down and then if you borrow, that's
32:12crazy.
32:13I mean, that's crazy.
32:14And for us to, for, for, for that to even get brought up that we should know better.
32:18That's, that's crazy.
32:20I mean, no better way.
32:22I think it speaks to the fact that they don't understand how complex this is.
32:25They should understand because they're supposed to be the regulators here, but it is crazy.
32:30Jason, we are out of time.
32:31Thank you so much for making the time.
32:33Thanks for coming on.
32:34I know you do have a lot of support in the industry where people can look at this and
32:37say clearly, like, you know, there's some things here that just don't add up.
32:41And also just the way that they've done it.
32:42Like I said, I mean, they're, if they have a complaint, you know, the way they did it
32:46was just it just doesn't make sense.
32:49So we appreciate you coming on, giving, you know, talking to our audience about something
32:53they care about a lot.
32:54And we will be following up to see what happens in the next, you know, weeks or months.
32:59Wish me luck.
33:00All the luck in the world.
33:01Thanks, Jason.
33:02Thank you very much.