A Panel of Film and AI experts will explore how advancing AI technology is shaping the direction of filmmaking.
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00:00AI will never be superior.
00:03It requires the human brain, the human heart, the human experience.
00:18I think it might be useful to sort of start with some definitions because AI is such an
00:25expansive thing and we're talking about kind of a part of it.
00:29So Megan, maybe you could talk a little bit about that part of AI that we're going to
00:33be discussing today.
00:34Yeah, so obviously Adobe is very much involved in the AI innovation space.
00:42I personally lead business strategy for the professional film and video side of Adobe.
00:49And when we talk about AI at Adobe, we think about it in sort of two different categories.
00:55Generative AI is more of the type of AI that sort of removes the tedium.
01:00It's leveraging traditional AI, assistive AI to remove those time-consuming tasks, things
01:08like you would recognize in some of our tools like speech to text or enhanced speech or
01:13things that really just take out those really time-consuming pieces of your workflow.
01:19And then there's generative AI, which is obviously bigger on the scene in this last year.
01:23And that's about net new pixels, right?
01:26Net new waveforms.
01:27Things that are created from ideas in your head through prompts, through voice recording,
01:33through different ways that you can sort of create something new.
01:37At Adobe, we're still thinking about generative in ways of like how do we remove pain points?
01:43How do we help sort of remove the friction from the filmmaking process?
01:48How do we leave filmmakers, editors to be creative, to keep you in that creative flow?
01:53So for example, in the past, as a filmmaker, as a creator, you would have to put in just
02:00like a slate saying, fill in with B-roll that looks like this.
02:04And now you can type in a prompt and have something come out of Firefly that could really
02:09fill that gap in your timeline or even create some motion graphics or VFX that could sort
02:15of be a communication path to your VFX team or to your creative teams that you're working
02:20with to say like, this is kind of the way that I want to go.
02:24There's also the idea of, you know, oftentimes producers are like, you know what, we're not
02:28going to go back and capture that.
02:30We don't have the budget.
02:31We don't have the...
02:32And for an editor to be able to fill it in with generative and be like, look how much
02:35better this flows with this piece could sort of convince that really, maybe you should
02:40spend the money to go back and create.
02:42And then of course, just creating new things and creative ideation that it really opens
02:48the world of imagination when we talk about AI.
02:52So those are assistive and generative.
02:53Those are the two sort of buckets of AI and how we talk about them.
02:57I'm really interested in how our panel is using AI.
03:01Dave, maybe we could start with you.
03:03How are you using it in your work?
03:05Well, it's definitely as a tool.
03:06I mean, as filmmakers, I think there's a lot of different ways we can tell our stories.
03:11And what's exciting for me at Promise is really trying to, you know, essentially we should
03:17be responsible for how technology affects our industry.
03:21And instead of kind of sitting back, you know, I'm a traditional artist and I went to Pratt,
03:24I studied fine arts, I went to film school.
03:27And I look at this as an opportunity to say, okay, we can actually have a chance to tell
03:31our stories in ways or at least present our stories in ways that we couldn't do before.
03:35And I attended a panel, I think yesterday.
03:39And the first thing they said is, you know, it took 10 years to get a film made.
03:43And for me, I'm thinking, I want to enjoy my 10 years of life with my children, with
03:46my family, but I also want to make a ton of films and tell a ton of stories.
03:51So at Promise, we're really just championing these storytellers, traditional or ones that
03:57are a little bit more, you know, experimental, and just really trying to show them that,
04:01you know, it's just another tool.
04:03We have the power as storytellers in this industry to make sure that it empowers us
04:09and affects the industry in the most positive way going forward.
04:12Paul, what about you?
04:15How am I using it?
04:16I don't know.
04:17I don't really touch this stuff, to be honest, I'm the wrong person to be here.
04:22Now, I mean, it's hard to not when you have this kind of game genie cheat code, it's hard
04:31not to use it for everything.
04:34And in some ways, you have to use a little bit of restraint.
04:38But it's used, you know, everything from development to post production, even production, I've
04:44done art department, like where we printed out things and put it on the wall things that
04:49just did not exist in libraries, you know, like stock image libraries.
04:55So pre production, production, and post, I see it all, it's good, you know, whether
05:00people are into AI or not, it's going to touch every single aspect of production.
05:07And so it's just about kind of retaining your voice through that.
05:11And it's, I use it in a way where I try to break the tools and see what they can do that
05:16they weren't designed to do.
05:18At secret level, we've been, we sort of doubled down on on AI early on in 2023, we were using
05:25it just in every part of our pipeline from pre production to production to post production.
05:32We were one of the companies responsible for the Coca Cola TV spot that was a lightning
05:37rod for conversations around generative AI.
05:43And we've really embraced it, it really is a part of every single, every single part
05:48of the process uses uses AI from I wrote a script over the break.
05:53And I used, you know, GPT, heavily guided GPT, to help write, you know, it really does
06:00affect every single part of the process.
06:03But we have a saying that, you know, pre production is the new post production, we're doing it
06:09like as we're developing things, we're looking at the final images that are going to be in
06:14the final cut very, very early on.
06:16So kind of use it throughout everything.
06:18And Angela, how are you using it?
06:20So the Agbo, the company that I work for, is an independent studio.
06:26And I'm the chief creative officer there.
06:29And we make a host of projects that are of all different scale, you know, we were here
06:35a couple of years ago with a wonderful director named Natalie Erica James, who had her first
06:40feature film Relic.
06:42We're so excited tomorrow for Isaiah Saxon, who's directed The Legend of Ochi, please
06:47go see it.
06:48It's so good.
06:49He's a wonderful visionary.
06:51But we've also, you know, done things like extraction, which was also a first time director,
06:56Sam Hargrave, but obviously more commercial and a bigger scale and scope.
07:00And if we take it a step further, we engage in what we call universe storytelling.
07:05So we focus on, you know, building original worlds that can be robust enough and detailed
07:13enough and rich enough to support a transmedia exploration.
07:18We get very excited about not just a singular expression, which can, you know, exist within
07:24a film medium or a series medium, but one that can then introduce another expression
07:30that might be in gaming or beyond and allow fans of that particular world to engage in
07:36it more deeply, to actually become part of the storytelling.
07:40We're led by two directors, Anthony and Joe Russo.
07:43We have a third partner now named Donald Mustard, who came to us from Epic Games.
07:46He was the chief creative officer there for many years.
07:49He shepherded the video game Fortnite, amongst others.
07:52So you know, with those three at the helm, the majority of us at the company are artists.
07:58We are craftspeople and crew members.
08:00We're writers, we're directors, we're editors.
08:03We also work with traditionally trained executives as well.
08:06But our mission as artists working at the company is to protect every artist that is
08:12coming in and working with us.
08:14And we really view ourselves as having the responsibility to champion their vision and
08:19to provide them with all the resources possible to manifest that vision to the highest level
08:24of quality.
08:26And technology plays a big role in the ability to do that.
08:30And we are very much in an exploratory phase with AI.
08:34We've brought on a gentleman named Dr. Dominic Hughes, who is our chief scientist.
08:38He is an innovator in machine learning.
08:41He came over to us after some time at Apple.
08:44He's been a professor at Stanford.
08:46He is very much about ethical applications of AI.
08:50And we're working with him and an internal team of engineers and technologists just to
08:54explore as artists ourselves and to make sure that we stay front and center in that exploration
09:00so that we can guide each of, you know, the technologists and the engineers that we're
09:05working with toward what is most useful.
09:08And I think in the same way that everybody up here believes, AI can be such an additive
09:14tool to the creative process.
09:16The artist is in control, the artist is leading the way, but AI can mitigate restrictions
09:22and it can open up opportunities in a really fascinating and empowering manner.
09:27And so that's our core mission right now, and that's where we're looking in the future
09:31to be.
09:32And we see a lot of potential, you know, especially when it comes to that transmedia exploration
09:37I was talking about earlier and working in virtual production and really connecting those
09:42different expressions in a very organized and efficient manner.
09:45You were talking about kind of an ethical framework.
09:50And it leads me to kind of ask, you know, what are the questions that artists and companies
09:54should be asking before they use AI?
09:58What would you sort of advise them to consider, whoever would like to?
10:03So I do think, I guess what I was alluding to earlier, just like retaining your voice
10:10and the artist's voice, the vision throughout the process and not letting, you know, whatever's
10:17in this training data to kind of homogenize aesthetics, to kind of override your vision
10:22and not using it as a crutch either.
10:26And so there's one just kind of holistically to think about it like that and how we could
10:32be barreling towards a culture where everything is very redundant and regurgitated and we're
10:37already kind of headed there pre-AI anyways.
10:42And to like rely on only what's in the training data and just recycling things is, I don't
10:49think is good for culture.
10:51So you need to have artists that are still making new aesthetics, still making things
10:56that look fresh and feel new.
10:59And so it's really important.
11:01So I'm a partner at this company, Asteria.
11:03It's both live action and a lot of animation.
11:07And the way each project is approached is there's like a lead artist that is driving
11:13the aesthetic of that piece.
11:16I just finished a project yesterday that I'm excited for everyone to see at some point.
11:21And we worked with this artist, Paul Flores.
11:23He's like a gallery artist, street artist from LA, has a very specific style.
11:30And it was amazing and he was involved in the process to make sure that his style kind
11:34of like retained through it and that he saw his hand in the final project.
11:40My wife is also a fine artist, oil painter, and we're working on a project together to
11:44make sure her brushstrokes feel like they're represented in the final piece.
11:49She has a very specific style, very tedious also that would have never been possible pre-AI
11:55given how much detail it was.
11:56So it also opens up new aesthetics and hopefully we'll see new kinds of animation emerge from
12:03these tools that are being driven by artists.
12:07But on top of that, I mean, you're still training on pre-existing data sets.
12:12So you're only like fine tuning off of a foundational model.
12:16And Asteria has partnered with this company, Moon Valley.
12:19It's former Google DeepMind people who worked on VO1 who are building a clean model with
12:26no scraped data in it.
12:28And so I think that's also setting a precedent that AI doesn't need to be about stealing
12:33from people.
12:34It can be done in a way.
12:37And I think Adobe is kind of philosophically aligned there.
12:40It's the only meaningful way to engage with the filmmaking world is to do it legit.
12:47We've let these tech companies kind of tell us like, oh, don't worry about it, we'll figure
12:50it out.
12:51Like the lawyers are figuring it out at one point and it's just like not that cool.
12:56So yeah, so that's kind of the ethos there.
13:00Yeah, Adobe, I mean, from the beginning, there were a lot of conversations internally about
13:05how do we want to approach this the right way.
13:07The fact is, in an AI perspective, we have been in the AI game for a decade.
13:12We've had features in the products that are assistive AI in Photoshop and Premiere Pro
13:18in After Effects.
13:20But this generative conversation has really changed the conversation and it has been very
13:25important to us to focus on the creative and how do we protect those artists and make sure
13:30that the way that we're doing it is responsible and ethical and transparent.
13:36The other thing is like to your question about what are concerns, what are people talking
13:42about?
13:43We've been investing a lot of time and energy into connecting with the filmmaking community.
13:49I mean, I spent a decade as a documentary filmmaker.
13:53One of our lead product managers on Premiere Pro was a longtime editor and colorist on
13:58my team.
13:59There's editors and colorists and we have a lot of filmmakers who work on the products.
14:05So it's personal to us that we want to protect the creatives and make sure that how we're
14:09doing what we're doing is about empowering filmmakers and making sure that we're not
14:17threatening jobs, but actually making jobs more creative.
14:22When I was working as an assistant editor, I was really bummed out that like most of
14:27my job was data wrangling and media management and drives and scuzzies and it was like the
14:34worst because that's not what I wanted to be doing.
14:36I wanted to be telling stories.
14:39I feel so proud that just this week we announced media intelligence in Premiere Pro and it's
14:45literally like you can type in a prompt and Premiere says, oh, here's all the footage
14:48that sort of matches that that's in your project.
14:51Like how much time is that going to save assistants where just yesterday, Ernie Gilbert, who's
14:56the editor of Opus here in the festival and started out as like an assistant on baskets
15:03and Atlanta and he was like, this kind of technology means that the assistants are going
15:07to get back to actually being able to create assemblies and be talking to their editors
15:12and engaging in the creative process versus dealing with all this data management and
15:18that those pieces are what really excite me.
15:21And then on the generative side, you know, there's a lot of fear again for like, oh,
15:27the job loss.
15:28And the reality is like I lived through the transition from film to digital and a lot
15:34of the concerns and a lot of the skepticism at that time are very similar, were very similar
15:39to what's happening now.
15:40The quality is never going to be good enough, right?
15:43A lot of people said digital will never be as good as film and there's going to be a
15:47lot of job loss.
15:49There was some job loss.
15:50There was also some job creation and the quality got better over time.
15:56So I think that that we it's important that that filmmakers and creatives are participating
16:01in this conversation because if you put your head in the sand and you pretend like it's
16:05not happening, it's not going to stop happening.
16:09And so I so encourage people to be I mean, you all are here.
16:13So obviously you are invested, but participating in the conversation and having your voice
16:18heard is what is going to drive how this technology develops.
16:22Because if you don't pay attention, it's going to happen anyway.
16:25And it's maybe going to happen in a way that you don't want.
16:29Yeah, and one of the things that Promise we do is we develop IP and one of our main capital
16:33partners is Peter Chernin, who's a legend in the filmmaking space, Avatar, Simpsons,
16:39you name it.
16:40And one of the things that's most important for us, even though we're going to be leveraging
16:44next level technology, generative AI technology, is what Paul said.
16:48We're still working with writers.
16:49We're still going to communicate with the guilds.
16:51We're still going to work with animators and illustrators and cinematographers.
16:56We're actually working on a project now where I'm working with, you know, the stunt team
17:00that did all the John Wick films and doing motion capture and then using generative AI
17:04to bring that to life.
17:06So it starts with a human.
17:07And before that, it started with a feature length screenplay that I actually wrote.
17:10So started with a human writer.
17:12And now it's going to be worked on by a bunch of animators and generative AI artists together
17:16in tandem.
17:18And a lot of that is the VFX artists and animators actually leading the show.
17:21The filmmakers and cinematographers are still in business because they help with lighting,
17:25they help with the look of the film.
17:27So for me, it's really, you know, again, with someone like Peter Chernin on our side, it's
17:32really looking at how do we make sure that everything we do with this technology is pushing
17:37the industry forward.
17:38It's not sending us back.
17:40I love your point about the digital camera.
17:42It's the same idea.
17:43More jobs will be created.
17:44And actually, more films are going to get made.
17:47Instead of, you know, one $200 million film, now you're going to have 20 films being made.
17:51So more people are actually going to be employed.
17:53And I think actually learning the tools is going to help be that feather in your cap
17:58as aspiring filmmakers to say like, oh, I really am like tapped into how this industry
18:04is developing.
18:05Yeah, I just wanted to add to that.
18:08We've, you know, ethics is like one of those things that I think people throw that word
18:12around a lot in the generative AI space.
18:17I think there's so many degrees of ethics, right?
18:20Like we're dealing with what people think are dirty models and things like that.
18:25Then there's the other side of it, which is like how you prompt, how you use it, the types
18:30of people that are working with it, all that kind of stuff.
18:34We really have approached on the ethics side of it, you know, like there's a documentary
18:38that is premiering on Monday that we worked on called Free Leonard Pelletier, and we did
18:43all the reenactments with that.
18:47There's all these really interesting uses of generative AI, and we've trained so many
18:52lores and so many models off of working with artists, working with their artwork, working
18:58with just all of their worlds.
19:03Story worlds is something that comes up quite a bit with us.
19:05We're always fine tuning these worlds that we're building.
19:10And ethics is like, I'm glad that you guys are building a clean model.
19:15I've used clean models, and they're so boring.
19:19Please make a good one.
19:20Please make a good one.
19:21It's up to you to bring the footage to build on top of the clean model.
19:24Yeah, I know.
19:25And that's the hard part, is like most people, when they use them, it's like, oh my God,
19:31I can't get any good results, because they're used to mid-journey, where you could like
19:35type in a cat, and oh my God, here's a great piece of artwork.
19:39And it takes so much more effort when you're using clean models and things like that.
19:44They didn't have Paul shooting the footage for it, though.
19:46Yeah, yeah, exactly.
19:47Well, no, and I mean, it is about still supplying your own material, I guess, to Dave's point.
19:53Like, you still have to go and shoot stuff.
19:55You still have to bring animators, illustrators in, and then you can kind of extrapolate all
19:59of their hands through the process.
20:02So this is not necessarily designed for like the consumer Twitter crowd.
20:07It's more designed as like a premium thing that will be designed to talk to studios and
20:13real filmmakers.
20:14Yeah, that's right.
20:15Yeah, since ACBO's getting started in this space, what are the conversations that you're
20:19having around this?
20:20I mean, I think similar to what you were just talking about, I believe that there is a way
20:27for all of these conversations around AI, and particularly some of the negatives and
20:35the fears, to ultimately lead to really impactful change for artists when it comes to ownership
20:44of content and likeness.
20:48I really do believe that we are headed toward, because of AI, a place where we need to rethink
20:53deal-making altogether, where artists are going to be able to build out their creative
21:00to a degree that shows they've already begun the production of it, right?
21:07I think that ultimately performers are going to have a complete say in the use of their
21:13performance and their likeness.
21:15And that's really exciting, and that's life-changing for artists.
21:19And I think that as long as we continue on this steady path, again, and I know we'll
21:25all say it up here, it's so critical that artists stay at the center of that conversation.
21:29And what Adobe's doing here today is so spot-on.
21:32Just engaging filmmakers who are using AI, listening to the community, allowing that
21:36to help guide the work that you are doing with the tools that you are building, I truly
21:42believe we can get to a place where we're going to turn things in favor of the artist
21:47with all this.
21:48So, I mean, to that point, though, how effective have the people who advocate on behalf of
21:55those artists been in sort of making sure that they do have control of those issues?
21:59Yeah, I take that very seriously at our company, right?
22:03Because we are bringing in partners that we're working with, whether they are animators,
22:08directors, writers, musicians, actors, and actresses.
22:14And so it is very much on us as a studio, an independent studio, to make sure that we're
22:20engaging in that type of deal-making with them.
22:24And we can help, I think, foster that change and movement toward empowering them and giving
22:30them more creative control.
22:32And that's the thing I'm finding the more that we explore with AI, is that ultimately
22:37it is increasing creative control for the artist, but also increasing collaboration.
22:44And that, like, I know those two things sound like they fight against each other, but they
22:48don't.
22:49The level of iteration that you can achieve as an artist to really manifest and crystallize
22:52what it is that you're thinking, the iterations that you can get to as an artist that you
22:56may not have ever gotten to before, then invites more people into the conversation to contribute.
23:02And I also find that, sorry, I also find that there's a real wonderful organization to it
23:09all that allows any of the craftspeople who are coming in to have immediate access.
23:16That's a really big thing.
23:18We're a company who is spread out all over the world, whether we're producing on a certain
23:23movie over in Europe or in South America, wherever we might be.
23:28But we are finding that we're able to engage in a real-time creative conversation and iterative
23:33process together, no matter where we are.
23:37And I think that's really wonderful.
23:40I was just going to say, I mean, I think that creative collaboration piece is so exciting
23:45when it comes to generative AI, because have you ever tried to communicate a creative idea
23:51through words and been like, no, no, it's not exactly like that?
23:54And then they do it again, and you're like, no, it's not exactly.
23:56And to be able to actually use visuals to pass ideas back and forth is so exciting.
24:02The number one thing I hear from artists that we work with is it takes me so much time to
24:07get it properly conveyed, because it's a long iteration with the teams that they're working
24:13with.
24:15One thing I just wanted to touch on, I'm so sorry, I know you're going to say something,
24:18and probably something much better than what I'm going to say, is just from the global
24:24aspect as well, when I talked about our own teams being spread out, I worked on a project
24:28this year.
24:28It was a collection of series for Prime Video, and they were global series.
24:33So one originated in the U.S., one originated in Italy, one in India.
24:37It was called Citadel.
24:38And so it was a brand new spy series in IP.
24:42And it was one of the most creatively fulfilling experiences I've ever had, because we were
24:49able to teach each other the lessons we've learned, how we tell stories, and learn from
24:54each other.
24:56And because Zoom became a very easy way for people across the globe to connect, it opened
25:03us up to so many possibilities.
25:05We were having biweekly universe writers rooms.
25:08We were sharing ideas and layering on them.
25:10I sort of look at that experience, and then I think about what we're doing with the tools
25:14that we're building out and testing.
25:16And I think it's just going to supersize that overall.
25:19Yeah.
25:20Yeah, I agree.
25:22I want to, just on that note, the collaboration thing and watching, we're working with a filmmaker
25:27right now, his films have made, like the Brewster Brothers, a billion plus dollars at the box
25:32office.
25:33We're working on a sequel for his movie.
25:35And we've trained, Laura's on his previous film with all of his characters.
25:40We could prompt with his characters, this and that.
25:42He has these hand-drawn storyboards.
25:44And you just start to realize that their eyes just light up.
25:48It's like, oh my God, now I could see all this sort of stuff.
25:51We can make decisions right away before we even get on set in terms of like, what are
25:56the things that we want to change?
25:58Is this set piece big enough?
26:00Do we want it to be this?
26:01Can we use this as a back plate for our visual effects shot?
26:04There's so much that happens when you engage with even traditional filmmakers that I find
26:09really, really interesting, because I came as a traditional filmmaker, but just dove
26:15into the technology side of it.
26:16But it's so good when you start to build these story worlds where you could really visualize
26:21every single piece, even remotely.
26:25You could be four months before you're even going to set on set, and you're getting to
26:29see the entire story world right in front of you in motion and color and everything.
26:34I think a lot of people who have been anti-AI, once they go through that process, I'm like,
26:42how could you go back?
26:43Yeah, dude, we're never going back to stock photos, putting pitch decks together.
26:47Never going to happen.
26:48And that's every filmmaker in the world.
26:50I think another topic that's really interesting about the potential doors opening with AI
26:57is the democratization of being able to tell bigger stories.
27:05So many young filmmakers now are coming up where you have an audience.
27:09You can go on YouTube and build an audience like that with your short films, but to your
27:14point in terms of global audiences, we, again, just this week, launched translate captions
27:21where you can run your transcript automatically in Premiere, and then you can automatically
27:24translate those captions into 17 different languages.
27:29And that's giving YouTuber, people who are starting as short films on YouTube, find that
27:33global audience and start finding collaborators in other countries.
27:36And I just think that the opportunity to, whether it's through generative video to tell
27:43bigger stories and let your imagination sort of play, you talk about, I think your term
27:49was like real filmmakers, but I think everybody starts somewhere, and the ability to leverage
27:54generative video to be like, I have these ideas, I can't afford a big camera, I can't
28:00afford a crew, but I can start sort of getting these ideas out is so exciting for young and
28:07aspiring sort of next-gen filmmakers as well.
28:10Dave, you were sort of talking about, and I'm sure this is something that's very familiar
28:14to people at Sundance, but just the amount of time it takes to make a movie, to get it
28:19seen, to assemble the financing.
28:22When it comes to something like AI, is it about lowering the cost of the films, or is
28:28it about allowing you to do more at the same budget level?
28:34Well, it's definitely lowering the cost.
28:36I mean, time is money, right?
28:39So the amount of time you need visual effects artists or animators to work on your film,
28:43or production designers, that costs money.
28:46I think AI is going to just free up a lot of that time to be put towards the more creative
28:52stuff that I know, me personally being a filmmaker, and people like Paul and Jason, that's what
28:56we want to focus on.
28:57We want to focus on the artistry, we want to focus on the storytelling, because I'm
29:00working with a lot of 3D animators right now, and we're kind of building a pipeline between
29:05like comfy open source tools and open source 3D tools, and the amount of time, like we
29:10literally, things like texturing, just if I want to go and just texture a building that's
29:15a mile away in the background in a movie, to be able to do that instantly, that's a job.
29:22Most animators don't like sitting there having to focus on shading and texturing all the time.
29:26They want to work on the animations, they want to work on the character design, they
29:29really want to work on the models, and the A character, not the C, D, E, F character,
29:35not the background building.
29:36So that alone, just background elements, using generative AI in that, that has been game
29:42changing, and I'm talking about going from something that would take three, four months
29:47to being able to do that in weeks, and that's the kind of change we're talking about.
29:50And again, it's not the creative part, really, it's just a lot of all the in-between stuff
29:54that we're focused on.
29:56Yeah, I can build on that.
29:58I mean, yeah, I agree, but I think it is a little bit of both.
30:01It's lowering costs, but that's also not super interesting.
30:06I think most first-time filmmakers, they're hovering around under a million to three million
30:14tops for their first feature, unless you're maybe an actor turned director.
30:22But that kind of caps there for a first-time filmmaker making their first feature.
30:27So it is also about making that money go further.
30:30It's not like, oh, don't worry, we can cut all these jobs.
30:35First-time filmmaker can only do so much with their first film.
30:39And so it is about reallocating that time and dreaming bigger and being more ambitious
30:44with your ideas versus taking shortcuts.
30:48So this project I was just referring to, the animated project, we use traditional 2D cell
30:54animation, 3D animation and AI, all seamlessly blended together to look like a retro 90s
31:00kind of image.
31:01It looks sick.
31:02I saw it.
31:03Thank you so much.
31:05And yeah, to your point, the lead 2D animator, Eric Foster, he's like, don't have me draw
31:14a car.
31:14He's like, I hate drawing cars.
31:16I was like, all right, I think we can not have you draw cars.
31:19And same with no one wants to draw all the window panes on a building.
31:23And there's so much detail.
31:24And the ideas we were able to, we had a set budget regardless.
31:29And we employed as many people.
31:31We had five cell animators on it.
31:33We had three 3D artists on it.
31:35And then a whole team at Asteria that was doing the AI stuff.
31:38So it was a lot of people.
31:39It was more than the budget even really allowed.
31:42So it wasn't even about cutting people out.
31:45It was about bringing more people in.
31:47So it's about reallocating time back into the creative process.
31:53And I think there's something that people miss is that even when a film is greenlit,
31:59you still hit a bunch of stop signs along the way.
32:02And there's a lot of creative compromise and creative negotiation you have to do with yourself
32:07to get to that finish line.
32:08And I think if you can not compromise as much, you might get a better film.
32:13And the funny thing is, having ran an AI native studio for the last year plus,
32:21most people that came to us were, oh, it's fast and cheap, right?
32:25And every single day.
32:26It's fast and cheap, right?
32:27And we're like, it's fast.
32:31If you want, I know I shouldn't swear.
32:34If you don't want great work, it's fast.
32:37And if you don't want great work, it's cheap.
32:40But if you want great work, it costs money.
32:43And it is.
32:44But I think the most important thing that we've seen, to your point,
32:47is it's so less about the cost savings.
32:50People are always like, how much will I save?
32:52How much will I save?
32:53And we say, it really gets us there faster.
32:56But we can do so much more with the budget.
32:59We could do so much more.
33:00You could dream so much bigger.
33:02I mean, that to me, as a filmmaker, that's when it gets really exciting.
33:06Where you're like, oh, OK, my budget, we're working on a film right now.
33:10It's about $15 million.
33:11And it needs to look like a $30 million film.
33:15And that's where AI really comes in handy.
33:18Yeah, we talk about that a lot, is giving creatives more time to be creative.
33:24Generative Extend is a perfect example of every editor has been there,
33:28where you're like, I just want to pull out this transition,
33:31just a couple more frames.
33:32And it's like, insufficient media.
33:35And you're like.
33:36I also think one of the less tangible outcomes of all of this,
33:41but it's so important, is that when you give creatives more time to be creative,
33:45when you engage in post-production and pre-production,
33:50for a first-timer emerging filmmaker, it gives such a level of confidence
33:56that by the time you go and shoot the movie,
33:59you've really explored it from every which way.
34:01And I have seen that, not just with regards to some of the R&D that we're doing with AI,
34:07but even with using Unreal Engine on our stages at Agbo,
34:12with emerging directors who are able to go in there
34:16and just build out their set and walk through a sequence
34:20and understand exactly how they want to shoot it,
34:23knowing exactly what the lighting will look like
34:25because we're able to load in the coordinates
34:27of where they will be shooting when they go practical.
34:30That's really empowering, I think.
34:32And it gives such a leg up by the time they go to set.
34:36And that's been impactful.
34:38I was going to say one more thing.
34:39You know, craft, as we all know, everyone here, we're at Sundance.
34:42That takes time and it costs money.
34:44But if you can leverage that craft with being able to give an artist a tool
34:48that can allow them to iterate fast and quickly,
34:51they're going to get to that craft even faster
34:52because they're an artist and they're a storyteller.
34:55So again, it isn't...
34:56When we talk about time savings and all that,
34:58it's actually just giving...
34:59It's empowering a creator to create faster
35:03in a sense that they get to iterate a million times over.
35:06And with tools like Adobe that I use,
35:07I was just thinking about Jennifer Phil, saved my ass a lot.
35:11There's those kind of tools that we can put things together quickly
35:13for clients and for producers.
35:15And five years ago, we couldn't do that.
35:18I wonder, have your views on AI evolved and shifted?
35:24And in what ways, too?
35:27Yeah, I mean, I started...
35:30I actually started playing with stuff early 2016, then 2020, then 2022
35:37when Dolly 2 was released.
35:39I was like, oh, this is not just like making pandas on the moon,
35:43riding tricycles.
35:44This is like actually a visual effects tool
35:47where you could upload your own images and replace.
35:50And now what's built into Photoshop,
35:53but they're kind of in painting essentially.
35:56And it was not controversial at the time.
35:59It was just...
35:59And my whole career, I've always played with technology
36:03and finding ways to kind of hack technology
36:06to every new technology is a new technique.
36:11And so I did not think of any sort of like ramifications
36:15or any sort of like didactic online discussion,
36:20virtue signaling that would come out of AI.
36:23I just kind of leaned into it because it was second nature
36:26for me to just embrace technology.
36:29And as, you know, having done tons of live action production
36:35and as I was doing it, I would start to like,
36:38listen to, you know, the people pushing back.
36:41And, you know, there's not going to be a solve
36:46just by like arguing in the comment sections
36:49of videos on social media posts.
36:51Like there's not going to be a solve there.
36:53And so I did have to kind of stop and think,
36:56all right, well, what are the ethical ramifications of this?
36:59What, how do we mitigate job loss?
37:02And so what started out as just fun exploration
37:05then became like a sort of responsibility.
37:07You know, it's interesting because, you know,
37:10Jason and I, you know, we were early
37:11when we were doing commercial productions
37:13and pitching stuff to clients.
37:15Like it was so cutting edge that like we didn't even
37:18understand what we were pitching
37:19when we were pitching ideas.
37:20And I think since then you kind of get the sense
37:24that more people are understanding
37:25that, okay, I can see how this can be a commercial tool.
37:28It could be a production tool.
37:29We all are familiar with what's happening
37:30with the Brutalist.
37:32There's tools that, you know, I personally believe
37:35that lean more on the ethical side
37:37that I think the Brutalist has used
37:39as a great example of how AI can be used
37:41at the highest level.
37:44But for me personally, I think what it's allowing,
37:46I think to your point, is this democratization.
37:49And one of the things I want to do at Promise
37:51as a chief creative is make sure that I can find
37:53that next generation of talent.
37:55Because there is going to be an 18-year-old
37:57that may or may not go to film school,
37:59but they're a storyteller at heart.
38:01I named my son's story because,
38:03not that I want him to grow up to be a filmmaker
38:05or anything like that, maybe.
38:07But I think there's going to be kids out there,
38:09and I look at my son who plays Fortnite religiously,
38:11and they're world building and they're playing Minecraft.
38:14And they're storytellers at age seven and eight.
38:17By the time they're going to be 18,
38:19they're going to know how to build worlds
38:20and they're going to understand these technologies
38:22in ways that none of us can even fathom.
38:24So I guess I want to make sure that I'm responsible
38:26for what that pathway looks like for this industry.
38:29Because I love this industry.
38:29That's the reason why I went to film school.
38:31I want to protect the industry.
38:33I think that's one of the things
38:34that people don't say enough who actually use the tools
38:36is I want to save and protect this industry.
38:38I don't want technology to come over and take over.
38:41I don't want the tech bros to take over.
38:42That makes sense.
38:42That's where I started as well, yeah.
38:44Because I think that in the very beginning,
38:47I worked for many years as a writer.
38:49I actually came to Agbo as a member
38:50of our story department.
38:52So in the beginning, I was really thinking about it
38:54from that perspective.
38:55And the idea of creatives being replaced is a scary thing.
39:00The more I work with AI and we've made a concerted effort
39:05to bring into the fold a wide spectrum of individuals,
39:09people who are so excited about it,
39:11people who are very leery of it.
39:13Because it's important to get all of those perspectives
39:16and feedback as we continue to build up the tools.
39:20But as I've worked with it more and more,
39:22my feeling is that unlike the fields of medicine
39:27or science or mathematics where AI can solve
39:31a mathematical equation or perfect a scientific formula
39:34in a manner that is superior to us,
39:37in the realm of creativity, AI will never be superior.
39:41It requires the human brain, the human heart,
39:43the human experience.
39:45And the human artist will always remain at the forefront
39:48in the center and utilize AI in additive ways.
39:51And so that's something that I've really come around
39:54to embracing and believing wholeheartedly.
39:56Yeah.
39:57And then I would say that as a filmmaker and creative
40:01that's used technology and almost all of my work
40:06from the past 25 plus years, when I first got,
40:11mid-journey 1.0 or whatever the first one was,
40:16you know, my mind just kind of exploded.
40:19I was like, wait a second.
40:20I could, you know, I think I was sitting
40:23in a conference room with my EP Monica over here.
40:27We were like, what does a shrimp tree look like?
40:30You know, and all of a sudden a shrimp tree came up
40:33and we're like, holy shit, this is like, this is magic.
40:36And I think that there's all these technological leaps.
40:41I was there at the beginning of the internet
40:42and all that kind of stuff that blow,
40:44always blow my mind technology and storytelling
40:47are those two things hand in hand that are just magic,
40:49you know, but it was that moment.
40:52I just used Google VO2 over the holiday break
40:56and once again, like blew my mind.
40:58Like these things that I was instantly being able
41:01to think of for the first time I was seeing them
41:05on the screen move in a way
41:08that I haven't seen them move before.
41:10And, you know, I did a little short film,
41:13put it up on Twitter and it exploded
41:14and it wasn't even that good.
41:16It's just, we haven't seen stuff like this happen.
41:20So these technological leaps, you know,
41:23having really been in the thick of it
41:25for the past year plus, where we've been in one year,
41:29I feel like I've aged 25 years
41:30cause it's just like everything changes every second
41:34and we're here and it's already so good, you know,
41:37it's just gonna get better and better and better.
41:39And that's like, that's why we always say, you know,
41:41this is the worst it'll ever be.
41:43Jason, you should go downstairs
41:44and see what a shrimp tree looks like
41:46in the AI green screen room downstairs.
41:50You know, I will say being a filmmaker myself,
41:53coming from the creative industry
41:55and working for the company who makes Photoshop,
41:59I'm really proud that Adobe has been a leader
42:01in the content authenticity initiative
42:04and the coming together of tech companies,
42:08of, you know, media companies,
42:10of individuals and creatives to say,
42:14we want transparency to Dave's point
42:16of protecting the industry, we want transparency
42:19and we wanna be able to give people the ability
42:21to see how and where AI was used
42:25to understand the sort of process
42:27of how AI is being implemented
42:29in some of these creative outputs.
42:30And so, you know, as generative features
42:34are coming into Photoshop or to Premiere Pro
42:36with GenXtend, you're able to add
42:38these content credentials to say,
42:39here's the nutrition label that shows you
42:41that some AI was used in this product.
42:44And I think it's really important.
42:46And my assumption is that it's gonna get to a place
42:48where if media doesn't have that,
42:51people are gonna be like, okay,
42:52something sketchy is going on here, right?
42:54It's not like necessarily does it have AI or not,
42:57but if it doesn't have a credential,
42:59people are questioning the reality.
43:01Yeah.
43:03Oh, I just, on that note,
43:04it's something that I constantly wrestle with
43:07and I'm curious, because you're,
43:08that the AI warning,
43:11like, did we have to put a CG warning in movies?
43:13You know, that's what I'm like,
43:15I always like, because like,
43:16why are we reacting this way to AI
43:19when CG was like making people fly
43:22and do all these crazy things that they couldn't do?
43:25Totally. I mean, I think as I was saying earlier,
43:28like these are conversations that we should be having.
43:30And an editor recently that I was talking to
43:32who has been a very accomplished documentary editor
43:36for a number of years was like,
43:38you know, I never had to tell people
43:41if I was using B-roll for an interview clip
43:44that wasn't actually referencing
43:45what they were talking about,
43:46like, or if I used interviews from two different clips
43:49of them talking about different things
43:51because it was more about,
43:53he was like, it's more about my moral compass
43:55and like, am I being true to the story
43:58and am I representing these characters
44:00and subjects and their truth?
44:03Filmmakers can do a lot of sketchy stuff.
44:06In terms of how they're presenting the truth.
44:09And really it is about that moral question
44:12of you as a filmmaker,
44:13how much are you wanting to, you know,
44:15be transparent or not?
44:17I think it's an important conversation
44:18and I don't think anybody really has the answers yet.
44:21Well, I think we could keep going and going,
44:23but unfortunately we're out of time.
44:25So will you join me in thanking our amazing panel?