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00:00I don't know how deep we can go, but like,
00:02I was on the brink, you know,
00:04of doing something really, really stupid
00:09and also like, wasting a career.
00:13Hey Tom, how's it going?
00:14Very well, how are you?
00:15I'm good, thanks for coming.
00:16I actually knew you in ages.
00:17I know.
00:17When was the last time?
00:18I think it was NME Awards.
00:20Years ago.
00:21You were wearing some sparkly jacket thing.
00:23Yeah, that was bad times for me.
00:25I mean, it's not my favorite outfit I've seen you in,
00:29but anyway, you're starting 2025 off with a bang.
00:32You've got a brand new single out, Shadowboxing.
00:35So can you tell me a bit about that first?
00:36Like where that came from and like, you know,
00:38how it forms the rest of your year?
00:40Well, I wrote it in LA with Justin Tranter.
00:43Great.
00:44Who is amazing.
00:45And I've done most of the record with Justin
00:48and Shadowboxing was the first song that we'd done.
00:52And after the session, he brought everybody in
00:56who were in different studios to listen to this song
00:59because he was like,
01:00we've just written something really, really special.
01:03Yeah.
01:04And it really did feel like that.
01:05And it does feel like that.
01:07But Shadowboxing, me and him sat down
01:09and we kind of spoke about my life really
01:13and spoke about the dark times, the good times.
01:17And I always have battled with,
01:22I call it like a demon beast,
01:27whatever you might want to call it.
01:27But I battle with the inner voice in my head
01:31telling me to do this or do that.
01:33And-
01:34Like an impulse.
01:35An impulse, exactly.
01:36And Shadowboxing explains all of that.
01:39But also if you're a listener who just wants a good-
01:43It's super catchy.
01:44Catchy song.
01:45Which is great.
01:46Then it's one of them too.
01:47But in the verses, there's a lot of lyric
01:53and that's explaining a lot of, like I said,
01:57dark things that went on.
01:58Yeah.
01:59Like there's very much this like push and pull.
02:00And I think there's a lot of it,
02:01you're kind of saying you're often
02:03like your own worst enemy.
02:04Exactly.
02:05Yeah.
02:06So do you feel like doing that song
02:07was a bit of like a unleashing of that?
02:10And then you feel like you got to,
02:11you know, it was kind of cathartic in a way?
02:13It was.
02:14It was very like,
02:16finally I've got the ability to talk
02:22and the confidence to say,
02:25this is what actually has been going on in my life.
02:28Do you feel like music's where you can do that?
02:30Cause otherwise maybe like,
02:31you're not able to express how you're feeling.
02:34Definitely.
02:35But I've also been conscious of like,
02:39not putting too much in my earlier stuff
02:45to like really explain about who I am.
02:48But I felt like with this whole record,
02:50I've gone,
02:52I need to really tell this whole truth
02:54about who I am and what I am.
02:56And yeah, shadow boxing is definitely that too.
02:59So yeah, it was cathartic to do it for sure.
03:02Yeah.
03:03But these are battles that I face every day,
03:07you know, like with the push and pull.
03:10How do you feel like that aligns
03:11with like being in the music industry?
03:13Is it exacerbate things?
03:15Definitely.
03:16I feel like with the music industry,
03:18you have to be,
03:19well for me anyway,
03:21when I met you at NME Awards, for example,
03:23that was a bad time for me.
03:25Not just because of what I was wearing,
03:26but because of like-
03:27Or cause you were hanging out with me.
03:28Yeah.
03:29I got his hair again.
03:31But because I was definitely sucked into like
03:35the life of like,
03:37you have to go out,
03:38you have to be doing all sorts of things
03:40to like make sure people think,
03:42well, he's this or he's that.
03:45Yeah.
03:46At that point in your career,
03:46I think also like everything was like
03:48blowing up in a big way.
03:49And, you know,
03:50you were having like top 10 singles.
03:51And so, yeah,
03:53I guess there must've felt like this pressure
03:55to kind of like always say yes to everything.
03:57And-
03:58Exactly that.
03:58But then you, I guess you find yourself
03:59reaching for things to help you get through it.
04:01And-
04:02Exactly that.
04:03Yeah.
04:04So I've definitely had to kind of
04:07navigate myself in this music industry world.
04:11And sometimes I've got lost
04:14and sometimes I've been able to like say,
04:17no, I'd like,
04:19I'm going to do exactly what I want to do
04:20and change the narrative.
04:24I wanted to like just,
04:27I don't know,
04:27make a positive,
04:29make it a positive and not a negative, you know?
04:31And for a long time,
04:32it definitely was like a,
04:34I was smiling behind the tears.
04:38Yeah.
04:39You know?
04:40Oh, I'm sorry to hear that.
04:41I mean, I'm glad it's like,
04:42but last year felt like it was a big turnaround
04:44for you like personally and professionally.
04:46Yeah.
04:47You ran a marathon,
04:48started working on the new music,
04:50got married,
04:51a lot of milestones happening.
04:52Big milestones.
04:53Yeah.
04:54And a lot to fit into one year.
04:56Okay.
04:57How are you feeling by the end of it?
04:58December came and obviously
05:00then I had that Christmas song coming out
05:02and I had that such a massive year.
05:03And definitely again,
05:05has taught me like,
05:07I can do it
05:09and I can achieve things
05:11that I really set out to achieve.
05:14And personally and in my career.
05:17Eagle-eyed fans would have actually been able to see.
05:20Yeah.
05:21You sort of announced your album title
05:22in a very unusual way.
05:23Yeah.
05:24It's on your neck.
05:25Yeah, it's on my neck here I think.
05:27Yeah.
05:28Yeah.
05:29Which is everywhere I went
05:30led me to where I didn't want to be.
05:32It's a long title,
05:34but it's-
05:35It represents-
05:36It represents everything of what we've spoken about.
05:39Do you feel like you kind of operate now,
05:42having learned a lot through your career so far?
05:45Because I feel like to a lot of people,
05:46maybe you kind of operate slightly outside of
05:49the rest of the music industry.
05:51Like you're very much doing your own thing.
05:53Definitely.
05:53You don't kind of fall into the usual pattern of,
05:57I guess, like album cycles.
05:59And you seem to kind of do things
06:01when you feel the time is right.
06:02Yeah.
06:03I feel like I've not stopped though.
06:05Yeah.
06:06But I definitely have
06:10taken my time
06:11and I haven't just like gone,
06:13right, let's put out the biggest song now
06:16to try and go and get the biggest hit
06:18and then fall off.
06:20I've kind of just like staggered it out
06:22and I feel like I'm still on a trajectory.
06:26You know?
06:27Yeah.
06:28I'm four albums in now
06:29and I've still got space to grow,
06:32which is amazing.
06:33Well, you had your first top 10,
06:35what was it?
06:36Top five single with the Christmas track.
06:39Yeah.
06:40In 24.
06:41Got bested by Wham.
06:43Have you got the tattoo yet?
06:45Is it happening?
06:45Yeah, of course it is.
06:46Okay.
06:47Are you going to get like the band name
06:48or are you getting George and Andrew's face?
06:51No, I might get a picture of both of them.
06:53Yeah.
06:54Okay.
06:55And it's hard.
06:56I think every year we like gripe
06:57about how there are no good new Christmas songs.
06:59So the fact that you got what you did
07:00with that track was amazing.
07:01Definitely.
07:02And like with Christmas,
07:05there is what I've definitely learned
07:08from doing, having a Christmas song
07:09and like going for Christmas number one,
07:12there is a DNA to Christmas
07:15and that is George Michael and Wham and Mariah Carey.
07:19And I don't think anybody's going to push them out,
07:26you know, but I definitely did feel like-
07:28You came pretty close.
07:29Well, this is the thing,
07:30I definitely feel like there was room
07:32for a modern classic, you know?
07:35And I think like, yeah,
07:36I'm confident in saying that I've done that
07:39and hopefully now the song just carries on
07:42and becomes a Christmas classic for people, you know?
07:45Yeah.
07:46And just going back to the shadow boxing as well,
07:47like, cause one of the lyrics there,
07:48like monkey on your back,
07:49and we were talking about
07:50the Robbie Williams documentary before,
07:52and I feel like, you know,
07:54that you talk about that impulsive nature
07:56and I think a lot of Robbie Williams fans
07:57will recognize that in his career.
08:01And I feel like you kind of very much
08:03encompass that whole, like as an entertainer,
08:06like in your live shows
08:07and like the way you look at producing an album
08:09or whatever.
08:10Like, I think that's kind of very much like,
08:12it's a whole package kind of thing
08:14of you want to give people as much as you can.
08:17Definitely.
08:17I want to give-
08:18To your detriment sometimes, I think.
08:19Yeah, I want to give people everything, really.
08:22And you mentioned Robbie,
08:24like I've loved him since being young.
08:28Like my mum's a massive fan
08:29and would have Robbie playing in the house, so.
08:31But I feel like definitely with this album,
08:33I channeled him a lot, you know?
08:35And then listening to it,
08:36I'm so happy that my influences are coming out
08:41in this record.
08:42Yeah, absolutely.
08:42Like there's a lot of the,
08:43as much as you're kind of getting really personal
08:44in the lyrics,
08:45I think there's a lot of the swagger of Robbie
08:47on Shadowboxing and some of the other tracks
08:49that aren't out yet.
08:50For sure.
08:51I feel like we'll, yeah, have a very similar impact.
08:54For sure, yeah.
08:55Can you give viewers like a hint
08:58of like what else is to come from the record?
09:00Really and truthfully, they're just big songs.
09:02They're like very much tell a story of,
09:08like I've already said,
09:09of where I've been at and where I am now.
09:15And tells the story of me growing up,
09:19me becoming a young man in the music industry
09:25and being influenced by different things.
09:28So it kind of tells the whole story in one album.
09:32Which was amazing to do.
09:34And like musically,
09:36I've definitely like pushed myself to the max.
09:40Some people might say with some songs,
09:43like, whoa, he's gone to somewhere
09:47that we never thought I would go to,
09:49but that's what I wanted to do.
09:50Like I was listening to my music
09:52and listening to records that I've put out
09:56and I felt like I was definitely like going down a lane.
10:01Okay.
10:02So you've consciously tried to kind of like-
10:03Definitely.
10:04Drag yourself back out of that and do something different.
10:06Yeah, like I actually wanted to play
10:12with my palette of musical thing, you know?
10:17Yeah.
10:18And I wanted to like paint a picture more of it.
10:20Not just being like,
10:22there's like just some boring old like pop song.
10:25Yeah.
10:26I saw in a recent interview,
10:27like you were talking about the early days and stuff.
10:29And I think you were quite critical of yourself,
10:33but I think like-
10:34Yeah, still am though.
10:36Yeah, but I think we first met when you were what?
10:38Like early twenties.
10:40This was right at the beginning of your career.
10:42And you said around that time,
10:43you were a bit of a nightmare.
10:44I don't remember you being that way.
10:46Yeah, because I hid it.
10:47Okay.
10:48Yeah.
10:49And it came out sort of after parties
10:50and behind the stage and stuff.
10:52Yeah.
10:53Okay.
10:54Yeah.
10:54Interesting.
10:55Yeah, like again,
10:57a lot of people didn't know that I was where I was at,
11:01but like, I don't know how deep we can go,
11:03but like I was on the brink, you know,
11:06of doing something really, really stupid.
11:11And also like wasting a career.
11:15Like I know that there was moments where like
11:17a lot of people in my team were worried that I was,
11:23I was, yeah, just not ready for it.
11:30And also just not capable to be around the music industry.
11:35Was there like a catalyst that like saved you
11:38from that going over the edge?
11:40My mom.
11:41Yeah.
11:43My wife now.
11:46And I think my manager,
11:49even though like my manager very much let me get on
11:54with learning, like, it was like,
11:56you've got to learn this for yourself,
11:58but I'll definitely guide you.
11:59It's kind of like the only way that can happen though.
12:00Exactly, because if someone like,
12:03it wasn't until my mom was like,
12:05come here, we've got to go home.
12:07Yeah.
12:08But if someone like my manager was to tell me at that time,
12:12like I would have just told him to kind of shut up,
12:16basically like.
12:17So did you go back to live with your mom for a bit?
12:19Yeah.
12:19And I went back to live with my mom
12:21and that's when like COVID happened.
12:24And so it gave me a,
12:26that gave me.
12:26Big reflection time.
12:27Big reflection.
12:28Allowed me to really like open up with myself
12:32and who I wanted to be and what I wanted to be.
12:35Don't get me wrong.
12:37I'm not perfect now.
12:38Like I've slipped up many a times,
12:40but I now know how to like navigate the way I am.
12:45And I know how to like fix a problem.
12:49Be great to hear the new stuff live.
12:51I think especially, yeah.
12:52Like songs like Shadowboxing.
12:53Yeah.
12:54Could just see how the energy for that
12:55is going to translate live.
12:57Yeah.
12:58Yeah.
12:59I'm hoping it will be a big year for sure.
13:00Thanks for chatting with us.
13:01Thank you so much.
13:02It's been great to catch up.
13:03Thanks so much.
13:04You too.
13:05Cheers.