In part 2 of the Tell Me Why episode with Kai Simmonds, a Mindset and Well-Being Coach, podcast host Maria Botros discussed the difference between stress and burnout, and how to deal with both.
People go through 12 stages before they hit actual burnout, says Kai
Herbert J. Freudenberger was the first person to coin the term 'burnout' in 1974
Kai: Burnout is when you're constantly stuck in a state of stress
Stress is actually good for you in the right amount, says Kai
See more videos at https://gulfnews.com/videos
Read more Gulf News stories here: https://bit.ly/2HLJ2km
Subscribe to Gulf News on YouTube and watch more of our videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/GulfNewsTV
#UAEnews #podcast #stress
People go through 12 stages before they hit actual burnout, says Kai
Herbert J. Freudenberger was the first person to coin the term 'burnout' in 1974
Kai: Burnout is when you're constantly stuck in a state of stress
Stress is actually good for you in the right amount, says Kai
See more videos at https://gulfnews.com/videos
Read more Gulf News stories here: https://bit.ly/2HLJ2km
Subscribe to Gulf News on YouTube and watch more of our videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/GulfNewsTV
#UAEnews #podcast #stress
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00stress everyone thinks like oh my god it's so bad it's so stigmatized and like but stress is
00:04actually good for you in the right amount right so what burnout when it's burnout it's like you're
00:10stuck in stress so you go to now let me use a different example something more dramatic so
00:15let's say you know back in the early days you're being attacked by a wild animal you're running
00:19you're running you're running the animal is chasing you the stress then tells your body to
00:22run really fast but then the animal stops chasing you but you still keep running that's what stress
00:28so like for example at work you know something bad happens and then you go home the stress
00:32is gone but you're still stuck in the stress right so then that that's what burnout is and
00:36it's also kind of emotional exhaustion when you're stuck in that stress you're probably
00:40struck in frustration you're probably stressed stuck in anger you're probably stuck in some type
00:45of heavy emotion so again when you're constantly stuck in this state of stress which again your
00:51body thinks you are in fear that's telling your entire body you are always constantly not safe
00:58okay so then how do you help clients like when they when they come to you with i know that it's
01:06like it's a super long process we're not going to talk about it like um during the show full on but
01:12like just like sort of like the initial steps like how do you get them to manage the stress
01:17or to get over the stress and how do you get them to manage their anxiety and these intrusive
01:22thoughts so in the beginning it's trying it's the talking part where we're trying to unpack
01:27and connect the dots to what their little t is right and the way that i use and there's so many
01:31different ways to do it and i think for everyone you find the way that works best for you there's
01:34not just one and only so i just want to say that yeah the way that i use that and connect with my
01:39clients is through something called somatics which i was talking about earlier or like biohacking is
01:42another thing um which is using our body okay so when we have a thought right we have an emotion
01:49connected to the thought and then from that emotion i like to say emotions are energy and
01:53motion there's a feeling and we in our body can feel feelings we can feel different things so like
01:59for example happy right joyful gratitude these are happy thoughts and then the feeling is a good
02:05good and then i don't know if even just like right now as i say happy as i see say joyful i feel like
02:10a little tingle in my heart i feel like my chest is a little bit like expanding i feel like my
02:16heart is glowing so then we become aware of like where in our body do we feel these feelings both
02:22the good and the heavy i don't like to say bad because there's no bad feelings so i just say like
02:26heavy feelings or big feelings and then you know lighter feelings like happy joy so then when we
02:31connect to our bodies and this is again incorporating the mindfulness of like where in our
02:36body do i feel joy where in my body do i feel anger and then from there once you connect to
02:41that feeling in your body i always ask them okay when was another time you felt like this and then
02:46that's how you can use your body to connect to your subconscious to then pick out the little
02:51t's find the little t's where like for example my little t was speaking out i felt like like this
02:58like block in my throat i remember like feeling just like yeah like a like a rock or like a blob
03:03in my throat and i was like oh my gosh i can't swallow and then you start to think back and you're
03:09like when was the first time i felt it and then that's when that kind of memory came up of like
03:12oh this so then you go back and you kind of reprogram that memory or you really number one
03:17you can release it so you just like visualize like it's releasing you're moving the energy
03:22and then second you go back and you kind of this is where the inner child work i think that might
03:26be something we've heard a lot about comes in where you kind of reparent that version of you
03:30who needed to hear something else in that moment so the first time you do this it takes like a
03:35whole session right like with with me or someone else but later on you can do this and i do this
03:40for myself like in five ten minutes like i start to feel like something coming up something stirring
03:45i'm getting anxious i'm getting and then like you know you can just literally sit in your car and i
03:50hand on my heart hand on my stomach and i start to connect where in my body i feel it sometimes
03:54you just need to breathe and release it or sometimes you need to go back to that memory
03:58and kind of like no it's okay you're safe you can you can speak now it's okay to speak there it's
04:03okay if they made fun of him it's okay to like you know you reparent it so that's kind of like
04:08the basis and then once you learn these tools because i'm like a former teacher my approach
04:13is like i'm not here to just like fix you or heal you i don't really like that approach i'm here to
04:18teach you teach i'm here to teach you how to use these things that you have access to that they're
04:22free like you know your breath and your body and you remember they're free you can do on your own
04:26time so then that's kind of like the homework i give them and also journaling because journaling
04:32it also helps you bring up different things that then we can in the session kind of release so it's
04:36like i do then we do and then you do which is the classic teacher approach exactly yeah no and it's
04:41helpful that you were a teacher as well because um it's it's important like i when i go to someone
04:47for help i i look for the educational aspect i looked for the for that takeaway that i'm gonna
04:53actually apply because if that person if i'm no longer following up with that person and i'm done
04:58with my sessions i want to know how to go on with my life like you know how to go about it in a
05:03natural you know healthy way so i look for that educational aspect and i think that's crucial i
05:08think it's more important i'm not more important it's equally important as important as the whole
05:14like as all of the sessions because that's what's going to keep them going yep and that's their
05:18takeaway yeah okay so we mentioned burnout yeah and that's what we're going to dive into um what
05:26is it like how do i know that i've reached a burnout stage or phase or point yeah so um before
05:33you even hit burnout there's actually 12 phases or 12 stages oh wow through okay and this is
05:39outlined by herbert frudenberger who was an american um german psychologist who in 1974
05:45was the first person to coin the term burnout so he's kind of i guess you can say like the
05:49father of burnout right he he used the term for the first time in 1974 and i know like we're like
05:54oh burnout is new no been around that's like what 50 years yeah so in it he identified there's 12
06:02different stages and i'm not i'm honest i don't remember all of them but i can kind of highlight
06:06the key things but basically and i'll just so what he studied also this is interesting i want
06:12to share is that when he did his research and he was studying like he called it workplace stress
06:16and then again it became burnout the three people that were most burnout were um teachers oh man
06:23parents and medical providers so doctors nurses anyone like that and honestly i think that still
06:28rings true today but that list has gotten longer so i really like his definition of burnout there's
06:34so many but i really like what his is and there's another book and another researcher she has like i
06:39think a phd in burnout okay she wrote a book yeah she wrote a book it's called burnout unlocking the
06:44stress cycle okay so these are kind of the two people i i pull i pull a lot of things from
06:49um but basically burnout is like when you're stuck in a specific and when you're stuck in stress
06:56and you can't move out so we have a stress so stress is i think that's another thing i want
07:01to say is that stress everyone thinks like oh my god it's so bad it's so stigmatized and like
07:05but stress is actually good for you in the right amount right so what burnout when it's burnout
07:11it's like you're stuck in stress so you go to now let me use a different example something more
07:16dramatic so let's say you know back in the early days you're being attacked by a wild animal you're
07:21running you're running you're running the animal is chasing you the stress then tells your body to
07:24run really fast but then the animal stops chasing you but you still keep running that's what stress
07:30so like for example at work you know something bad happens and then you go home the stress is
07:34gone but you're still stuck in the stress right so then that that's what burnout is and it's also
07:38kind of emotional exhaustion when you're stuck in that stress you're probably struck in frustration
07:43you're probably stressed stuck in anger you're probably stuck in some type of heavy emotion
07:48so again when you're constantly stuck in this state of stress which again your body thinks you
07:53are in fear that's telling your entire body you are always constantly not safe so it's constantly
08:00like this isn't a real word but i think this makes sense they're constantly pushing pumping
08:05out stress juice so your body's just full of stress juice and it's like not good for you it's
08:09toxic so that when you hit that point where you can't release the stress stress where you can't
08:15process the stress that's that that's burnout and again it's meant it's i mental physical and i say
08:21spiritual too because it's all these things so that's yeah that's my kind of definition of like
08:26what burnout is okay um because i know a lot of people associate it with with lack of sleep as
08:31well but obviously with the stress comes overthinking lack of sleep disturbed sleep as well so
08:37um i think that's crucial what do you like what do you think of that like when it comes to sleep
08:41especially yeah i mean sleep is our time for a body to like literally like recharge and if you're
08:48missing that point like the part in your life to recharge you're just like it's like when you've
08:53charged your phone right you plug it in you're red you plug it in you get to green and then you're
08:57ready to go like if you're not plugging into your sleep you're constantly at red at red at red at
09:02red so so yeah absolutely it's sleep and if you want to more of the symptoms it's like struggle
09:07to sleep irritability i'm also talking about myself probably you have gut issues you probably
09:13have acne issues weight gain weight loss um tired you could also sleep all night but wake up tired
09:20that's another thing of burnout headaches body aches yeah that's that's the top ones that i hear
09:27again there there are more but those would be the things that i'm like yeah that's kind of those are
09:31indicators yeah yeah constant negative thinking these types of things yeah right right okay so
09:37then how how does like a person get out of that i feel like i have reached those points and i think
09:44having like a supportive family a supportive husband was always good but i feel like there's
09:49more to it like i think there's there's a lot more to it that i need to do for myself
09:54so how do i get out of that yeah so first off if anyone you're in are in peak burnout like
10:00i can't help you you need to go to the doctors you need to you literally need to rest like they
10:04need to put you on bed rest you're probably dehydrated you need some ivs so if you're in
10:08peak burnout i always say go to the doctor let yourself kind of recharge and re you know your
10:14your health is really not okay and again i put that to the doctors and they they need to get
10:18you back into care but where i come in is that once you've gone and this is when my clients come
10:23to me is once they've hit that burnout you know they've gone to the doctors they've taken two
10:26three weeks off of work and then they come to me because they're like i don't ever want to hit that
10:30stage again right and that's when i can help you or i think another therapist or maybe if you're in
10:34the beginning stages of burnout where you're feeling the aches where you're feeling the
10:38digestive issues um or another some of my clients they are they're they're exercising they're taking
10:44care of their body but they still feel like anxious and stress all the time so right doing again
10:50taking care of your body first your health that's the first thing and then once you've done that so
10:54you're a bit more at an equilibrium state that's when i can help you with mindset work and that's
10:59when i can help you with like learning how to regulate your nervous system so like i was saying
11:04earlier when your amygdala sees something that it thinks is danger your body sends all the stress
11:09juice all over the place right this is activating something in our nervous system called the
11:14sympathetic nervous system and i call it sns so sympathetic nervous system like sos right danger
11:20sos sns and so that is again to the adrenal glands but our bodies are like so amazing because we have
11:27our sns but then we have our pns parasympathetic nervous system we have a whole set of nervous
11:33system we have a whole set of tools that are meant to kind of like heal or counter yeah and that comes
11:40with the vagus nerve so the vagus nerve it's like it's like starts at the top of your head it goes
11:44all the way down into your spinal cords into your stomach so again this is all our nervous system
11:49right and when you activate the vagus nerve you can complete the stress cycle or you can get rid
11:55of all the stress juice naturally through your body and the way that you can activate your vagus
12:00nerve is literally through breathing wow breathing and there's an amazing book by james nester called
12:06breath and this he says like the same thing just learning how to breathe does that there's of
12:12course exercise any slow movement so when it comes to yoga i know there's power yoga there's a stronger
12:18yoga right and this this is what i see a lot they're like oh i'm stressed i need to do yoga
12:22and then they go to these like super intense yoga yeah you need to go to the yin yoga classes
12:29sound healing right um connecting to nature right spending time around loved ones these there's so
12:36many different ways to connect to your vagus nerve and what your vagus nervous system does
12:41is it basically like tells like the sympathetic nervous system no i'm safe my body is safe and
12:47because stress is a physiological response it's actually your body you need to actually do something
12:52physically to regulate that stress which is why breathing gentle movement gentle movement
12:59sudden or intense yeah like that's another thing i see is people are stressed and they're going to
13:03these intense hit workouts and i'm like your nervous system is like boom at work and then
13:08you're going to another boom workout no wonder you can't you can't heal you need to slow it down
13:12and that affects your cortisol levels as well exactly i mean that's that's part of the stress
13:16hormone so you're you're not serving your body at all by doing that yeah you need you need the
13:23pns you need the a vagus nerve so when you're able to activate that through breath work through
13:28little movements then you can complete the stress cycle right when stress comes up you literally
13:33like a hand on the heart and stomach and you deep breath you're telling your body i'm safe
13:38you're you're literally regulating your nervous system right and completing and ending the stress
13:42so it's not days and weeks and years it's it's minutes yeah and it needs like 15 to 20 minutes
13:48to do it when that's where my clients are once they're later on in their journey it's not about
13:53like oh there's no stress in my life everything's so easy right what world do you live in exactly
13:59it's gonna be there it's just a matter of managing it or actually breathing and trying to like
14:06manage the stress and and obviously it doesn't disappear completely because as you said what
14:11kind of world are you living in like that's that doesn't exist no but that's so true i mean coming
14:17from a very skeptical person like i was always very skeptical of these things in the past like
14:22now i do a lot more yoga as you said i was so it was very competitive i was like this active
14:27you know bouncy person and i did reach levels of like burnout and like just the unbearable i want
14:35to say anxiety and i think i i helped myself wind down and i think there's a lot more work to be
14:40done and i know that it's a it's an ongoing process but i was always so skeptical about what
14:46you were talking about and i think a lot of people still have that they're like really it's that
14:50simple like just breathing for 15 minutes and like hand on heart hand on like your your body and like
14:56trying to like manage your breathing and sometimes it's yes that is that is how simple it is like
15:02i think a lot of people are like but what's the catch or is it really like is it effective and
15:08they ignore it until they've reached that burnout like that complete burnout stage yeah and i i
15:14agree with you and because i'm a skeptic too i'm a skeptic at everything like so i'm don't so i
15:19believe i'm fully on team skeptic yeah exactly but i think then that's why you have to feel it
15:25once you feel something and that's why when i'm working in a session with my clients like they're
15:29skeptical but when i take them through this and they're like it's gone right until you feel
15:34something for yourself me too it's hard to believe exactly you could tell me that that restaurant
15:39there is not good i'll be like no i need to try for myself to make it up exactly to make up my
15:44mind so that's why yeah in a session or in my workshops you feel it and again some people it
15:50doesn't resonate with them that's fine yeah but when you feel something you're like that that
15:54that's it that's it for me and that's it for them it's life-changing yeah honestly and and it's as
15:58i said um with that sound healing class i did it the first time thinking you know what i'm just
16:03gonna give it a shot and when i felt it for myself that was the turning point like when you
16:08when you experience it you almost only believe it when you've actually tried it so i i am a i'm a
16:14skeptic so i i get that so i get that um completely okay our show is called tell me why yeah my tell
16:24me why question it's it's not grim i'm not i don't mean to like make it sound like dark but
16:30tell me why it is dangerous not to address you know stress and anxiety and and to actually
16:38deal with your burnout tell me why that is dangerous yeah it's dangerous because it's
16:44not something number one that goes away on its on its own it actually gets worse and the first
16:48time you hit burnout you might need two weeks to recover the next time you hit burnout you're
16:52probably going to need a month the third time you hit burnout that recovery time is going to get
16:57longer and longer and longer until you're just at that point where you you can't do anything
17:02because your body needs that recovery time to heal right so i always say stop like i rather
17:07be proactive than reactive like what can i do this so your health is at risk you're and i know
17:13sometimes people oh i am too busy i have my family i have this and this is like but i'm also like if
17:18you were down for six months well how could you support your family how could you take care of
17:22yourself how could you you know um go to work versus doing something now and even like when
17:27i'm working with someone we meet like for an hour and a half every two weeks like if you can't find
17:34an hour and a half every two weeks to take care of yourself that's where you're headed right and
17:39and so yeah it's just that's not that's not we we're not meant to live like that we don't have
17:45to live like that that's the thing is we don't have to why are you going down this road when
17:50you could stop it and just change the direction exactly exactly i think it's tough though because
17:55i i when you were speaking right now i've heard that from so many people they're like i don't have
18:00time to spare i have such a busy schedule it could be that um you know their their their partners are
18:05very supportive but they're also as busy so it is difficult nobody said it's going to be easy but
18:12it's doable i think is what you're trying to say right yeah yeah and like the people i work with
18:17they're like directors they're cfos they're ceos they're very busy people right like i'm and i can
18:22work with someone who's not busy as well so that's also something so yeah yeah you just need like i
18:28even say in the beginning it's like two hours every two weeks right because you know you're meeting
18:32with me and then you're doing homework but then later on you feel it and you're like you see the
18:35results it becomes something that you choose to do every day right but in the beginning i will say
18:40even for myself like i like i shared earlier like i didn't do anything i was stubborn i was like oh
18:44it'll go away but then it started to get worse and i was like whoa your body is literally telling
18:49you to slow down when it's when it's doing that yeah we just need to learn to listen to our bodies
18:54yeah i think that's also hard i think a lot of people don't recognize what their body is trying
18:59to tell them i think a lot of people don't listen to their bodies they don't know how to listen to
19:05their bodies i think that was one of the hardest lessons for me i i mean this happened to me five
19:09years ago um i think when someone first told me to listen to my body i was like so what am i
19:14supposed to do like how do i listen to my body and honestly it was a simple exercise of just you know
19:22um like if i feel tired it's okay don't push yourself it doesn't mean you're lazy it goes
19:27back to the fact that i'm a perfectionist i'm competitive and i all these traits that are
19:32actually adding to the stress and to the to the pressure that's on me so i think it's it's crucial
19:38for people to learn how to listen to their bodies and and to know when to stop or pump the brakes
19:45and you know reboot and then start again and it is difficult i i think um it's it's not an easy
19:52task and it's not an easy exercise i think and i agree with you 100% like people like listen to
19:57your body like what like what am i supposed to do yeah but i always tell people you don't have to
20:01do this alone there are people out there who can teach you how to listen to your body not just me
20:06but like even just starting to put a little feeler out there you can someone can help you
20:10that's what i always want to tell people it's like yeah you can learn it yeah yeah of course um um
20:16okay so i know you have a very busy schedule and you you were just saying you deal with cfo ceos
20:22so we're not going to take you away from them but i just have um two more questions first um can you
20:27tell us like some success stories some of the people that you've worked with like their starting
20:32points and then their end point without revealing too much obviously yeah yeah oh so many and the
20:37thing that happens is that you think you're coming in for burnout and you walk out with so many
20:41shifts in your life so i'll start with kind of one of like my biggest she when she we started
20:46working together she didn't have a job she was so burnt out of her job that she had to quit because
20:51she was so burnt out and i think that she wasn't working for two to three months because she just
20:56couldn't she just couldn't work and so she was like like like i said your body will tell you
21:01two three points and she couldn't even look for work so then she came she reached out to me and
21:06we started working together and again the thing is it's so interesting it's not like my clients
21:10they're their physical problems are connected to their mental health those are the people that i
21:14can help they're you know so so what we unpacked is like she had all of these really negative
21:19thoughts about herself that she got you know from her family basically like because she got compared
21:25a lot to like her sisters her cousins um i think that also might be a cultural thing which you know
21:31honestly i think every culture does i think every culture does that like thinking about my culture
21:35i'm like yep we do that yeah yeah so so exact like really even though she was like when she
21:39told me the things that she's accomplished in her life i was like what that's an amazing
21:43accomplishment why would you not be proud of oh but because this my sister did this and so
21:47compared to her i wasn't so there was a lot of those little t's that we worked on removing and
21:52reframing how she spoke to herself so when these thoughts would come up and she she would kind of
21:57like i said she would connect to her body and she would go back to that younger version of her
22:02and connect to her and also just like reframing things and realizing her own strengths and her
22:07own uniquenesses so like then it became and that's a huge thing i'm a believer of is like we can't
22:12compare each other to each other because like we're all so unique and we're all so different
22:16we have our own skills and that's another part i work on is helping people see their skills like
22:21their uniqueness which they probably think is nothing but it's it's something you were created
22:25in a specific way because you are amazing and you're meant to use these to help yourself and
22:29others so then she started to see how unique she was and it's so interesting because at the end of
22:34our time working together she got two job offers and one of them was like her dream company that
22:39she she really really wanted to work at so she like had two offers of like um and then she was
22:45telling me oh and then they have this and then they like have these wellness days and so like
22:49she went from like super toxic environment and like this you know like when she shared with me
22:55it was not okay you know like the work to like now she had two offers both really good companies
22:59one of them was her dream job and again because that's the thing is i always think like you
23:04attract the energy you put out right her mindset was so different now she put out a different energy
23:08so when she was going and applying for jobs like she was bringing in these opportunities that were
23:14aligned to this more positive kind of like mindful part of her like when you're when you're at a
23:19shutdown phase it affects every aspect of your life i mean you're personal you're professional
23:25your psychological well-being your physical health everything so you're absolutely right
23:29you come out with so much more than what you you came in for a great year okay last question and
23:36then i will let you off the hook oh i could talk about it i know this is awesome and we will have
23:41you back obviously because i know we're gonna get so many questions after this episode but
23:46before i let you off the hook what's your advice for people who might be going through something
23:52right now maybe they haven't reached the peak burnout as you said but they're actually on the
23:57way and they're recognizing it as they're listening to this episode what's your advice
24:01first off like get out find find someone that you resonate with um there are so many different
24:06coaches and so many different therapists and it's so important that you find the one that you connect
24:10with and then the other thing this is to all the um fellow perfectionists out there is like you
24:15don't have to do it all yeah you don't have to do it that's something i have to remind myself
24:19or i say i can do it all i can have it all but not all at once right so i can have this this for
24:25this month i'm focusing on this area of my life next month that's not the focus this is the focus
24:30so i always like to remind myself like you you you you don't have to do it all by yourself
24:35like ask for help ask for help like i'm always just that's a huge shift from what i do now
24:40differently and like give yourself a break the the other part of this which i hear often is is
24:46the guilt of like like i think you mentioned earlier which i felt a lot like oh i didn't work
24:51out this morning at 6 a.m i slept in yeah your body needed it in fact you should if you're tired
24:59it's much better for you to sleep than to wake up and do the workout that is much better for your
25:02health right so like those are just a few things that i always like to remind people of like
25:08just get help it's okay and it's it doesn't have to be this this huge life change and stuff so
25:14and i know i said this before like breathe yeah like we have our own natural healing system within
25:19us like we have you can unlock so much so many things with with breathing absolutely i mean even
25:24when you're working out you'll find the instructor saying breathe yeah focus on your breath it
25:29actually happens like it actually it actually helps like it helps with the recovery it helps
25:34with the workout breathe i think we take it for granted kai thank you so much for joining us today
25:39this was so insightful and i know that we're going to have you back to our listeners if you
25:44have any questions we'd love to have kai back so feel free to email us any of your questions
25:50on podcast at gulfnews.com or you can send us through social media on the gulf news account
25:57um thank you for joining us today and thank you kai for your time having me thank you had so much fun
26:02thank you