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00:00A federal judge on Thursday extended for one week a pause on the Trump administration's
00:05top work order to thousands of U.S. agencies for international development workers while
00:11he considers a lawsuit by government employee unions.
00:14Meanwhile, the World Health Organization chief Dr. Tedros Ghebreyesus is urging the Trump
00:19administration to consider resuming aid funding until other solutions can be found.
00:24Mary Dina, the founder of the Mary Dina Foundation, and Dr. Francis Ohaido, the director general
00:29of the West Africa Institute of Public Health, join me now for more implications for Africa's
00:34health and the development agenda here.
00:36Thank you so much for your time today, Mary and Dr. Francis.
00:40It's good to see that we're speaking to two people who have had diverse engagements with
00:44USAID over the years, and I'd like to start with Mary to get what your experience has
00:49been like and how is this impacting your activities on the ground?
00:53Yes, so my foundation, the Mary Dina Foundation, is implementing the Zero Hunger Program in
01:00partnership with USAID, and we've been implementing that program for over five years now, where
01:06it's a food relief program, and we also deal with health services, including vaccinations
01:11for babies, antenatal care, and also sexual and gender-based protection for women.
01:18We're operating in the northeast of Nigeria, as well as the far north of Cameroon and Chad,
01:23so it's actually a western and central Africa program.
01:27Of course, about two weeks ago, we got the email saying that they had put a freeze on
01:33the funding and that we should stop and cease work for now, in terms of a suspension, but
01:40recently, about a week ago, we were asked to resume activities as normal, and that funding
01:44would continue.
01:45So that's where we are in terms of the work.
01:48Yeah, but there's still some uncertainties in there, but I'd like to get Dr. Francis'
01:52input here first, because I've followed your work over time, Dr. Francis, and you've been
01:55engaged since the late 2000s on the Compact Project with USAID, and also your work as
02:01the National Pneumonia Coordinator, and I'd like you to speak to this engagement with
02:04USAID over the years, and the impact you think it has made here in Nigerian soil.
02:10All right.
02:11So, thank you, Kenneth.
02:14I think the repercussions of that decision, and the stop-work order of the Trump administration
02:21is quite far-reaching, more than even I think even Trump himself can imagine.
02:26I'll start by saying there's what you call the head impact, is an acronym we use in terms
02:33of what the effect is.
02:35One, for what USAID does globally is amazing, and even though the money may be small compared
02:43to countries' GDP, but you get a lot of resource for the money, because there's more system
02:48accountability, especially in countries where there's some kind of corrupt systems and all
02:57that.
02:58So, you find that development money sometimes does a lot of very visible work.
03:02And so, the head impact is, like Nigeria, for example, we're looking at the impact around
03:07health, which is significant, because you just mentioned over the last two decades or
03:14so, I worked for USAID in Nigeria on different projects, flagship projects that targeted
03:19women and children in Nigeria.
03:21I can give you an example.
03:22The Compass Project, for example, worked in five states in Nigeria, supported polio campaign
03:29in seven states in Nigeria.
03:31So, you can imagine how much it was, a $100 million project.
03:34You can imagine it was between 2005 and 2009.
03:38And we renovated even schools, because it had the education component.
03:44We renovated over 300 primary schools in Nigeria across those five states that we supported.
03:49And then we renovated even health facilities and trained health care workers, supported
03:55community-based organizations, about 300 of them or so across the country.
04:00So you can imagine the kind of impact this has on the system where there's a really fragile
04:06health system, especially primary health care.
04:09That's how.
04:10Then you talk about the economic development impact.
04:14The aid funding from U.S. government spills into agriculture, spills into all sorts of
04:20areas of human development in one form or the other.
04:23So this also is there.
04:24They have, like, the Marcus Project, you know, and they have supported organizations like
04:29IITA and some other organizations in the country that have partners to be able to develop even
04:34new crops that can stand, that are more resilient and better for our farmers to use in Nigeria.
04:40All those kind of projects have been there, and other organizations have done work in
04:43the market too, in the fuel-to-market spectrum of agriculture.
04:48So that is very important when you are looking at the economic development side of it.
04:53Then you are looking at also the assistance side of it, which you can, you can unbundle.
04:58My sisters work in humanitarian sector as well.
05:02And then there's also the technical side.
05:04There are people who give technical assistance across sectors in Nigeria, in one form or
05:08the other.
05:09That is another one.
05:10So, and the other one is the one of democracy and governance.
05:14A lot of things that we, a lot of people don't know that when the 1999, the democratic system
05:22started off again in Nigeria from the military, a lot of the things that were done at National
05:26Assembly, in terms of equipping, even computers, libraries at National Assembly to be able
05:32to strengthen the D&G system in Nigeria, were funded by USID, two different partners.
05:38Dr. Francis, I know that you can't rule out the impact of USID on Nigeria.
05:42We've seen, this is an institution that has spent over $12 billion in sub-Saharan Africa
05:47in the year 2024 alone.
05:48Mary, I'd like to bring you to my next line of questioning here, which is looking at the
05:53lay of the land in terms of how philanthropy is shaping up there, how that landscape is
05:57changing, certainly with news like this filtering in, I can imagine the impact as well on ground.
06:03Yeah, absolutely.
06:04I mean, just to buttress what he's saying, the impact of USAID has been immense.
06:08For our foundation, we've distributed over 55 million meals.
06:12We're attending to 102,000 beneficiaries every year.
06:16In terms of the impact of it, one of the things that we've seen is, for example, some of the
06:22hospitals that USAID was funding in the northeast of Nigeria, those children had to be relocated
06:29after the cease order was received.
06:32Some of them had to be relocated to public hospitals in areas that have a lot of violence
06:38and terrorism and so on, some to Chibok, some to other hard-to-reach areas, so it's caused
06:45a lot of disruption.
06:47However, it's also an important time to look at the landscape and see how things are changing.
06:52I believe it's time for corporates to really step up and step into the shoes that, historically,
06:59international governments have filled.
07:00So governments such as USAID, even the EU, those have been very, very instrumental to funding.
07:07However, we're seeing a lot of funds now for philanthropic causes from billionaires internationally.
07:12There are a lot of grants and open calls for $5 million, $10 million, $20 million.
07:18For the first time, these philanthropists are giving multi-year grants.
07:21So you only apply once and you can get those grants for two, three years in advance.
07:26They're reducing the time it takes for people to apply for those grants.
07:29They're pulling back on the red tape.
07:31They're pulling back on the reporting guidelines needed just to give humanitarians a chance
07:36to focus on the work that they are doing, which is saving lives.
07:39So it's majorly changed.
07:40The landscape has changed entirely.
07:42And it's time to move away from just reliance on international governments and look to corporates
07:47as they step in to change the world.
07:49All right, Dr. Francis, Mary says it's a wake-up call for the corporate sector here.
07:53I'd like to hear your opinion on how the landscape of philanthropy needs to change to a more
07:58befitting role for Africa.
08:03Yes, so that's very important because we need to look at funding inwards.
08:07I hope you can hear me.
08:08I think the network seems to be fluctuating.
08:10We can hear you.
08:11Yes, so I think one of the biggest challenges is the fact that we have not tapped into a
08:17lot of potential funding sources in terms of domestic resource mobilization.
08:21And one of them is corporate philanthropy.
08:24Recently, the Dangute, the Aigu Mokudu have actually stepped in one way or the other.
08:29For example, the Aigu Mokudu Foundation and some of its partners have adopted PECs across
08:35local government areas in Nigeria in one form or the other, and they are supporting them
08:39to empower them to become better primary health care centers in the country.
08:43So that's very important.
08:45That kind of funding can be catalytic.
08:47Nobody can replace government, but we need to have ways that we can tap into additional
08:52funding for the health system to get more health for the moment, because already as
08:57government is, the government is overwhelmed.
08:59The resources are getting leaner every day.
09:02And I think it's difficult to be able to talk about systematizing every funding sector
09:10for Nigeria in a way that will be able to account for government.
09:14It's very difficult.
09:15And health is a major one, because for return on investment on health, it's very high.
09:22For $1, you get about $14 for health when you invest in it, because you're working
09:28towards a demographic dividend.
09:30People should be able to be healthy enough to improve their economy.
09:33And that's very important.
09:34If we lose sight of that, we will not have the kind of economy we need to be able to
09:38drive Nigeria to a greater country in the future.
09:41So that's very, very important, to be able to galvanize funding internally out there.
09:47And corporate financial, very important.
09:51All right, Dr. Francis, quite a lot said here.
09:53When we look at what's playing out here, you can't bear to ask the question, you know,
09:58how long then will you continue to rely on aid?
10:00It's good to see that you're stating funding, but for how long?
10:04And it's also a wake-up call for organizations like yours as well to then source for other
10:09means in terms of how you're doing it.
10:10But I'd like to hear about what you're doing at the Zero NGAN program, and more or less
10:15how the impact you're having on ground, and also how you're also looking at tapping into
10:19other sources.
10:20Yeah, absolutely.
10:21I mean, the work we're doing is very extensive.
10:24In the northeast of Nigeria, specifically Borno-Adamoa-Yobe states, we're distributing
10:29food to pregnant and lactating women, as well as to babies under 24 months.
10:35We're also attending to emergency relief during flooding.
10:39We're vaccinating children.
10:41We're protecting women from sexual and gender-based violence.
10:44We're also connecting women to antenatal care, so that more people are delivering in hospitals
10:49as opposed to delivering at home, which leads to more maternal mortality.
10:53So that's the work we're doing.
10:55And the big idea in philanthropy now is collaborations.
10:58We're working very closely with the Yobe State Emergency Management Agency and with other
11:04partners in the sector, UNICEF, Welfare Program, and all the corporates as well.
11:09It's time to come together.
11:11One person can't do all of the work.
11:13One person can't give you all the funding.
11:15We have to come together.
11:16All right.
11:17We're fast out of time.
11:18So, Dr. Francis, just a quick one from you.
11:20What are the next steps, in just one sentence?
11:27Yeah, so next steps is that we need to become more and more intent on how we're able to
11:32source funding for all our sectors, not only health.
11:35And health should be in all policies, because that way you can be able to build architecture
11:40as a co-generator for all of the systems, making sure that the things work in the country
11:45and people are better for it.
11:47If we don't do that and put health first at the front burner, we'll keep going around
11:51in cycles in terms of all this.
11:53And then we need to get the private sector to understand the potential of what health
11:56funding can do for Nigeria and be able to get the government to be able to be more accountable
12:01so that there's less hemorrhage within the system.
12:04So for every Naira that is put in the health system, people will be able to get equivalent
12:08health for that money.
12:09Once we're able to do that, Nigeria will be better for it.
12:11And of course, the main thing is to make sure our primary health care systems work.
12:14All right.
12:15Well, everybody, thank you so much for your time on the show today.
12:17Dr. Francis Nhaide, the Director General of the West African Institute of Public Health.
12:21And we also have in the studio here, Mary Dina, the founder and CEO of Mary Dina Foundation.