Scotsman Politics: FMQs Unpicked Thursday February 20 2025 #FMQs
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00:00Hello, and welcome to the Scotsman's Politics Show.
00:03We're here to unpick and wrap up First Minister's questions
00:07for another week.
00:08Rachel Amory, our political correspondent,
00:10coming live from the halls of Holyrood.
00:13Rachel, we thought it would be a bit of a spicy FMQs.
00:17It didn't let us down, thankfully.
00:19I know you've been covering blow by blow
00:21of what's happened over the past hour.
00:24Take us through the key question,
00:26because we probably all knew it was coming,
00:28and Russell Finlay went straight in on same-sex spaces.
00:32Yes, we were very much expecting the FMQs today
00:35to kind of be dominated by single-sex spaces
00:37and transgender rights,
00:38particularly in the back of this employment tribunal
00:41that's happened between the nurse, Sandy Peggy,
00:44and Dr. Beth Upson in NHS Fife.
00:46It's been going on all week.
00:47Earlier in this week, you might remember as well,
00:49the Conservatives, in fact, several MSPs
00:51from different parties, actually,
00:53tried to get questions heard on this in the debating chamber,
00:57and these questions were rejected.
00:58The Conservatives then tried to amend
01:00the parliamentary timetable
01:02to force the health secretary to make a statement,
01:04and that was voted down.
01:05So we kind of expected this slot
01:08the Conservatives have every single week at FMQs
01:10to be dominated by this instead.
01:13So it was very much on single-sex spaces,
01:16what the guidance is for public bodies,
01:18and how the Equality Act is to be used by public bodies,
01:21such as NHS boards, for example.
01:23It did get very, very heated.
01:26John Swinney, very keen to point out
01:27that he cannot comment on anything
01:29that might compromise the employment tribunal,
01:31which has now been adjourned into the summer,
01:33so it's still very much ongoing,
01:35but lots of quite angry back and forth,
01:38lots of laughing at disbelief
01:39in some of the comments being made as well.
01:42So very much a spicier FMQ
01:44than what we've seen of late from there.
01:46Now, the Labour Party did go on health,
01:48but they did also refer to the case of Sandy Peggy
01:51and Dr. Beth Upson as well,
01:53basically referring to the priorities of the NHS
01:56and the money that's being spent on this case
01:58compared to frontline health services, for example.
02:01It wasn't just that that was being talked about
02:04at FMQs today.
02:05We also had Pam Gosal.
02:06She's a Scottish Conservative MSP.
02:08She was talking about single-sex spaces,
02:10particularly in schools.
02:11It was slightly different, not directly about this case,
02:14but a very, very similar issue,
02:16and again, referring to the case of Sandy Peggy
02:18and Dr. Beth Upton,
02:19saying that it shows that the mindset
02:22that's being of gender identity and self-ID
02:26produced by the SNP is being infiltrated into public bodies.
02:31And she was trying to say that it's unfair
02:33for there to be no single-sex toilet in schools.
02:36But again, it was very much a case
02:38of looking at the legislation that's already in place
02:40and trying to get technical on the details of all of that.
02:44Rachel, please correct me if I'm wrong,
02:46but the hearing's not meant to restart until July,
02:49I think it is.
02:50I mean, we're looking, that's four months away.
02:53That's a considerable period of time.
02:55What's, can John Swinney's position hold?
02:58I cannot comment on this issue in general
03:01because of the hearing
03:02when he's going to be asked about it
03:04for the next four months.
03:05Is that realistic that he can stick to this position?
03:08I think at this point, it's almost like he's got to.
03:11It's one of the things that are so far down the road now
03:13that it can't, it will look quite bad for the party
03:16to u-turn on this at this point in time.
03:18Earlier this week, for example,
03:19Anna Sarwar and Jackie Bailey from the Labour Party
03:22said that they would not have voted for gender reforms
03:24back in 2022 if they had known
03:26this was coming down the line.
03:27That has not necessarily gone down that well
03:30with the public, basically people saying,
03:32why did you not have this position at the time?
03:36So it's unlikely we're going to see a change in position,
03:38but as you said, it's a very, very long legal process.
03:41We're now just going to have months and months
03:42of this debate because there's going to be no answer
03:45to what's going to happen until the summer
03:47when the poorest parliament is in recess.
03:50One thing to note, it's quite interesting
03:51that it was the Deputy First Minister, Kate Forbes,
03:53just before FNQ started, there was newspaper reports
03:57that she had said that she gives her full backing
03:59to single-sex spaces, which is perhaps a bit sort of firmer
04:03than anything we've heard from John Swinney
04:04or the Health Secretary, Neil Gray, on this issue.
04:06But again, Kate Forbes is very keen to not comment directly
04:09on the case that's happening at NHS Fife.
04:12It's an interesting one because I would love
04:15to have heard the discussions behind the scenes on this one
04:17because clearly Scottish Labour have said,
04:20look, we'll update our position.
04:22We'll maybe even take a hit with some people
04:24who criticise us now, but at least allows us to move on
04:28and be critical of the situation,
04:30whereas the position from John Swinney
04:32and the Scottish government and the SNP means
04:35it is going to drag out for them
04:37and it's going to keep coming up.
04:38So which is better from a political point of view?
04:41It's a good argument to make.
04:43Rachel, health was referenced as well.
04:48We know it's a big issue for Scottish Labour.
04:51We know it's a big issue for the government as well
04:53that's made some commitments lately.
04:56We're expecting it'll be talked about again
04:58over the coming days with Scottish Labour
05:01to start their conference tomorrow.
05:03Can you talk through what was asked by Anas Sarwar
05:06but also the significance of that discussion
05:08heading into the weekend?
05:10Yes, so Anas Sarwar almost every week goes on the NHS.
05:13So no surprises there.
05:14This is what was happening this week.
05:16And again, seeing there's huge waiting lists.
05:19So many Scottish people are on these NHS waiting lists.
05:22And one of the reasons, one of the knock-on impacts of that
05:25is more people trying to get GP appointments
05:27and recurring GP appointments
05:29for things that would perhaps be fixed
05:31if they could get to hospital in a shorter amount of time.
05:35So the Labour Party have come out
05:37with the past week of a new policy point
05:39if they were to win the next year's election
05:41to say that they would end the 8 a.m. rush
05:43for a GP appointment and would have everyone
05:45seeing a GP within 48 hours.
05:48Again, slightly another sort of problem with Labour Party,
05:51sometimes we don't get a lot of detail
05:52on these sorts of points.
05:53And perhaps a bit of detail lacking here
05:56on this point that was made by Anas Sarwar.
06:02His position on what they want to do with the health service.
06:06Now, as you were saying,
06:07it's Scottish Labour Party conference in Glasgow
06:09starting tomorrow.
06:11Myself and political editor Alistair Grant
06:13and deputy political editor David Ball,
06:14we are all going to be there this weekend
06:16to bring you all the latest news from that.
06:18But I would expect there to be a lot of discussion
06:20about the health service.
06:21I know that Jackie Bailey, for example,
06:23who you may have just seen walk behind me,
06:25she has got some panel events booked in.
06:28She's also got a few talks
06:29that she's been expected to make on the health service.
06:32So we will definitely hear some more
06:33about what Labour plans to do for the health service
06:36over the next few days,
06:37particularly because they have made this such a key issue
06:40for them when it comes to next year's
06:42Scottish Parliament election.
06:45Thank you very much for joining us
06:47and talking us through all that.
06:48You can read all the latest of our coverage
06:51to come out of First Minister's Questions at scotsman.com.
06:54We're running a live blog across it
06:57and the blow-by-blow details are in that.
06:59But there will also be more running on our site
07:01over the next 24 hours on health and the political fallout
07:07from what was discussed today as well.
07:09On top of that,
07:10there's some key council tax decisions being made today.
07:13We will know how much Edinburgh and Glasgow
07:16are going to be raising council tax,
07:18which will affect a lot of people,
07:20I'm sure, that are tuning in.
07:22So please follow us for all the latest
07:24and go out and buy a copy of The Scotsman tomorrow
07:27for the full package.
07:28Thanks to you, Rachel.
07:29Thanks to everyone else.