“Putin’s B*TCH!” Trump Brands Zelensky a ‘Dictator’

Metatube

The invasion of Ukraine by Russia shook Europe’s belief in its own security architecture in a way not seen since the second world war - but even more surprising to the European mind is how the new US President views the conflict. Donald Trump has called President Zelensky a 'dictator' in a recent press conference, and for that, has earned widespread condemnation from America's closest allies.  So is Trump really turning on Ukraine? Or could this be some kind of tactic pulled straight from 'The Art of the Deal'? To discuss, Piers Morgan brings Republican Congressman Rep Dan Crenshaw, former Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich, host of 'Democracy-Ish' Wajahat Ali and host of 'System Update' Glenn Greenwald together on Uncensored.  Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by:  ExpressVPN: Go to https://expressvpn.com/PIERS and find out how you can get 4 months of ExpressVPN free!  American Hartford Gold: Protect your wealth with precious metals! Call American Hartford Gold today & get up to $15,000 in free silver on your 1st order! Call 866-692-2474 or Text PIERS to 65532, or Click the link below: https://offers.americanhartfordgold.com/piers-morgan/ This paid promotion should not be construed as providing legal, tax, investment, financial, or other advice.  00:00 - Introduction and monologue 03:51 - Trump calls Zelensky “a dictator” 07:36 - Crenshaw: 'Putin is an insecure bully' 14:25 - The rest of the panel join Uncensored 21:35 - Time to call Putin’s bluff? 25:50 - Greenwald calls out Crenshaw’s ‘hypocrisy’ 29:00 - Is Greenwald spewing ‘Russian propaganda'? 31:50 - Difference between situation in Gaza and Ukraine 37:30 - Blagojevich on his pardoning and his take on Ukraine 43:00 - DOGE discussed 46:10 - Plane crashes: DEI or DOGE? 48:35 - Is Elon overshadowing Trump?  Subscribe to stay up-to-date on all Uncensored content.  Follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on: X: https://x.com/PiersUncensored Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/piersmorganuncensored/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/piersmorganuncensored TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@piersmorganuncensored  Follow Piers Morgan on: X: https://x.com/piersmorgan Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/piersmorgan  #donaldtrump #putin #russia #piersmorgan #debate

Transcript

00:00:00You need a deal that seems good to the West and to Ukrainians,

00:00:04but also that seems good enough to Putin that he goes home

00:00:07and propagandizes to his own people and says he won.

00:00:10That's how you deal with an insecure bully,

00:00:12which is exactly what Putin is.

00:00:14By giving Putin, a war criminal, all the concessions,

00:00:17without getting anything in return, he looks like,

00:00:19I'm sorry to say this, like Putin's bitch.

00:00:21The reality is Russia is winning the war or has won the war.

00:00:25And you can say, oh, you must be a Kremlin agent to say that.

00:00:28I mean, you've got so many facts wrong,

00:00:30it's just hard to know where to even start.

00:00:32You've never fought anything.

00:00:33You don't know anything about the military.

00:00:35I've fought a lot of things. I've fought a lot of things.

00:00:38I don't know that you can get much more successful than Elon Musk.

00:00:40Taking a look at the books and taking a look to see

00:00:42whether or not there's ways to bring efficiency to government

00:00:45would have been refreshing if a Democratic president did something like that.

00:00:48You've slammed Elon Musk repeatedly as a South African immigrant,

00:00:52and yet right behind you, in your book, go back to where you came from.

00:00:58President Trump news cycles tend to follow the five stages of grief.

00:01:01First is denial. No, he's dead wrong.

00:01:04Then comes anger. How dare he?

00:01:06Reasoning is when commentators search for the deeper subtext in his comments,

00:01:10followed by sadness that he's going to get his way in the end anyway.

00:01:13And finally, there's acceptance. He's the president.

00:01:15This time, he's not pulling any punches.

00:01:17Let's take a look at his comments on the Ukraine war.

00:01:20Today I heard, oh, we weren't invited.

00:01:22Well, you've been there for three years.

00:01:24You should have ended it three years.

00:01:26You should have never started it. You could have made a deal.

00:01:28I could have made a deal for Ukraine that would have given them

00:01:32almost all of the land, everything, almost all of the land,

00:01:36and no people would have been killed and no city would have been demolished

00:01:39and not one dome would have been knocked down.

00:01:41But they chose not to do it that way.

00:01:44And President Biden, in all fairness, he doesn't have a clue what he,

00:01:47he was so bad.

00:01:49Well, I have minutes, not months, so we'll get through the stages quickly.

00:01:52First, he's wrong. Russia started the war by invading Ukraine.

00:01:55Days after saying all talk of an invasion was hysteria.

00:01:58Ukraine and its allies would have every right to be angry

00:02:01if that was the president's honestly held view.

00:02:03But here's the reasoning. Trump shoots from the hip.

00:02:05He blames the whole Western foreign policy apparatus

00:02:08for projecting weakness that Putin went on to exploit.

00:02:11And he's long made clear his view that the war wouldn't have started on his watch.

00:02:14It's incredibly sad that Ukraine will have to give up territory to end this war.

00:02:18It's incredibly sad that the price of peace is bringing Putin in from the cold

00:02:22with no retribution for the atrocities and war crimes he's effected on Ukraine.

00:02:26This was Republican Senate Armed Services Chairman Senator Roger Wicker.

00:02:31Putin is a war criminal and should be in jail for the rest of his life,

00:02:35if not executed, to violate the rule of law.

00:02:40I think that's what we can trust the Russians to do,

00:02:43is to do anything to their advantage, to take temporary steps.

00:02:50But Vladimir Putin has violated every tenet of international law.

00:03:00Well, he's right, isn't he? But acceptance is admitting that the war must end

00:03:03and there is no diplomatic norm that Trump won't bulldoze

00:03:06to do exactly what he said he would do, end the killing.

00:03:09Well, to debate all this and more, I'm joined by Rob Bagojevich,

00:03:12the former Democrat governor of Illinois, recently pardoned by President Trump,

00:03:16the host of Democracy-ish, Wajahat Ali,

00:03:18the host of System Update on Rumble, Glenn Greenwald,

00:03:21and I'll start with my special guest in the Uncensored studio,

00:03:23Republican Congressman Dan Crenshaw.

00:03:26Dan, we've never actually met, so it's great to see you.

00:03:28Thanks for coming in. You're in London at the moment.

00:03:31Donald Trump, as we literally have sat down,

00:03:34he's just come out and got into a war of words with Zelensky,

00:03:38who had accused Trump of being trapped in a disinformation bubble

00:03:42when he said that Ukraine had effectively started this war

00:03:45and they should have stopped it.

00:03:46Trump has responded by calling Zelensky a dictator without elections

00:03:50and says he better move fast or he's not going to have a country left,

00:03:53saying he's very unpopular, his country's in ruins, etc.

00:03:57He says at the end, Trump, I love Ukraine,

00:04:00but Zelensky's done a terrible job, his country's shattered,

00:04:03millions have unnecessarily died, and so it continues.

00:04:06He called Zelensky a moderately successful comedian

00:04:09and said he better move fast, like I said,

00:04:11or he won't have a country left.

00:04:13I don't agree with that characterisation of Zelensky

00:04:16or Ukraine's position here.

00:04:19To me, it's quite clear who started this war and it was Russia.

00:04:22But what do you make of what we're seeing here now

00:04:25with Trump and Zelensky now in open verbal conflict?

00:04:29It's not great.

00:04:32To put a nicer spin on it, Trump tends to talk that way to his friends.

00:04:36He tends to talk nicer to his enemies.

00:04:39So if he's talking to you that way, it still means you're his friend.

00:04:42And I would always, of course, warn people like Zelensky,

00:04:45just don't get into it with Donald Trump.

00:04:48Don't get into it. What's the point? What's the point?

00:04:51We've been backing you this whole time. We will continue to back you.

00:04:54But there must be a paradigm shift.

00:04:57And that's what President Trump brings to the table here is a paradigm shift.

00:05:00That's what they're attempting to do.

00:05:03There's been a lot of criticism over it. There's been a lot of hand-wringing.

00:05:06Oh my God, are we going to give this away? Are you going to be too nice to Putin?

00:05:09We don't know yet.

00:05:12That first meeting in Saudi Arabia was designed to just have more meetings,

00:05:15to see if we could have more meetings.

00:05:18I think that's necessary for the Ukrainian people.

00:05:21I don't think from a human perspective this work can continue on Ukraine's terms.

00:05:24So something has to change.

00:05:27Look, I want to be optimistic, and I'm going to fully back the president on this right now.

00:05:30Because if I don't, I mean, what choice do we have?

00:05:33If we start undermining him right now, well, then it's definitely doomed to fail.

00:05:37And you'll definitely have to revert to fighting and then have that question again

00:05:40about how much longer do we keep supporting the fighting

00:05:43when I think there's a better path forward

00:05:46where you come to some kind of agreement.

00:05:49What that looks like is still pretty far off. We have yet to figure that out.

00:05:52So let's let this play out.

00:05:55I mean, I've talked to President Trump privately about this situation,

00:05:58and he conceded that it's very complicated,

00:06:01certainly not possible to deal with in one day, as he kept saying.

00:06:04The difficulty, I suspect, in his head is he will not want to give Vladimir Putin a big win.

00:06:09He's not going to see Putin declaring victory, victory parade, and so on.

00:06:13The question is, how do you avoid him doing that

00:06:16and resolve this and bring the war to an end?

00:06:19I mean, do you see with your military hat on, do you see an easy way to resolve this?

00:06:24It's extremely difficult because, first of all, a good deal is a subjective term.

00:06:29You need a deal that seems good to the West and to Ukrainians,

00:06:33but also that seems good enough to Putin that he goes home

00:06:36and propagandizes to his own people and says he won.

00:06:39So you're going to have to deal with that fact that he goes back home

00:06:42and propagandizes to his own people no matter what.

00:06:45So that's something we have to deal with ahead of time.

00:06:47But he says something very important, and this is one reason I still have faith in the Trump team.

00:06:51Trump does not like being taken advantage of.

00:06:54He does not want to be perceived as being taken advantage of,

00:06:57and I don't think that's on their agenda right now.

00:06:59But the first thing they have to do is get Putin to the table.

00:07:03And what I would remind everyone is, I think, again, I'm putting an optimistic view on this

00:07:08because we have to. What choice do we have?

00:07:11But the optimistic view on this is that Trump is treating Putin exactly like he deserves to be treated,

00:07:16which is a second-rate former superpower who has insecurity issues.

00:07:21You know how you get them to the table? You flatter them.

00:07:24You tell them, oh, you're right.

00:07:26Oh, yes, all of your tit-for-tat, all of your historical nonsense that our team has to deal with

00:07:31when they listen to the Russians about who started what.

00:07:33Fine. You're right. Just come to the table.

00:07:36That's how you deal with an insecure bully, which is exactly what Putin is.

00:07:40And I would remind the Ukrainians that you're not the insecure bully in this.

00:07:43You're not. You are the ones who, against all odds, actually defied, again, a former superpower.

00:07:52And so let Trump carry this out.

00:07:56Let's see. Let's support him in it instead of fighting along the way,

00:08:00which will make the outcome more difficult.

00:08:02Trump has made it clear he thinks Europe has not stepped up big enough here.

00:08:06And you can certainly see that argument.

00:08:08I mean, the Americans have paid way more for this to Ukraine in terms of military hardware and so on

00:08:15than the Europeans have.

00:08:17And many European countries are still not paying their NATO dues,

00:08:20which is incomprehensible to me.

00:08:22Trump is completely right about that.

00:08:24What should Europe be doing?

00:08:26Well, he's completely right about that.

00:08:29And then the Europeans would counter and say, no, it's about equal.

00:08:32And I say, let's assume that those numbers are correct.

00:08:35It's a little difficult to calculate.

00:08:37But the entirety of Europe's European support is about equal to the entirety of American support.

00:08:41My message to Europeans is, why should it be?

00:08:45It should be double. It should be triple. It's your continent.

00:08:47Not only that, but we should be holding you back.

00:08:49Here's how this negotiation should go.

00:08:51And I want Europeans to imagine a scenario where maybe it's General Kellogg,

00:08:55who's the lead negotiator here.

00:08:57Imagine he's in the room with the Russians.

00:08:59And behind him, the Europeans have decided to create the European army that Zelensky had mentioned.

00:09:04I would agree with that, by the way.

00:09:06And that they're amassing troops because they're so sick of this idea that the Russians might invade Europe.

00:09:10Now, what does that do?

00:09:12It all of a sudden gives the Americans the ability to, one, play good cop,

00:09:15and also have a ton more leverage in that negotiation,

00:09:18and have a ton more leverage on behalf of Ukrainians.

00:09:21That's what Europeans need to do.

00:09:23They need to be uncomfortably aggressive.

00:09:25And I've said this many times.

00:09:27You likened it to a barroom brawl scenario. Explain that.

00:09:31Well, international conflict in politics is the same as barroom conflict in politics, right?

00:09:37You have to win in escalation dominance.

00:09:39You have to out-crazy the guy who's coming after you.

00:09:41And I would liken the Russians to someone, and this is actually how they are in real life,

00:09:45if you've ever gotten into a bar fight with a random Russian.

00:09:48They're kind of skinny fat.

00:09:50They're not really in shape, but they act like they are.

00:09:53They act like they're really tough guys, and so you should treat them that way.

00:09:56They're their former superpower.

00:09:58They're insecure.

00:10:00And let them have their bluster.

00:10:02Let them have their bluffs.

00:10:04But in the end, Europe alone, if they really wanted to, could easily win this.

00:10:09And I think Europeans need to remember that.

00:10:11Europeans need to remember that they alone could win this if they wanted to.

00:10:15They don't always need us to lead them everywhere.

00:10:17In fact, they should be leading us.

00:10:19That would be a nice change.

00:10:21And so I would go a step further than say, hey, pay your dues to NATO.

00:10:23Because look, Germany, if you increase your defense spending as a percent of GDP by 2%,

00:10:30that's a 10-year investment, all right?

00:10:32That has no effect on the next couple of years,

00:10:34and it certainly has no effect on what we're going to see in Ukraine here in the next year.

00:10:37And you need to be uncomfortably aggressive.

00:10:39I agree with you.

00:10:40And I could use an extreme example of, like, you started amassing troops.

00:10:43That's just an extreme hypothetical.

00:10:45Don't get me wrong.

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00:12:20Now, on with the show.

00:12:23You know the problem with that there?

00:12:24The problem with that is that the UK Prime Minister Keir Starmer has come out and said,

00:12:28yeah, we're going to put British troops in Ukraine as part of this.

00:12:32But we only have 72,000 troops left in our entire army.

00:12:37Ukraine had a million.

00:12:39And they've already been beaten up pretty comprehensively by Russia.

00:12:44I don't think we can even spare a few thousand troops,

00:12:46the way that he's talking, without further diminishing our defences.

00:12:50What we need to do is very rapidly massively increase our defence spending

00:12:54so we can do things like this.

00:12:56We've been caught napping, as most European countries have.

00:12:59And a lot of it is what you said.

00:13:00It's that reliance on America.

00:13:02Oh, well, America will always come and help us and take charge and bail everybody out.

00:13:06To which if I'm an American, I'm like, well, why should we have to all the time?

00:13:09I totally get that.

00:13:11Particularly if you're not spending even what you should do on your NATO dues.

00:13:16This is what you get.

00:13:17You get these uncomfortable conversations when you don't prepare ahead of time.

00:13:21But I would also remind the British, you don't have 72,000 troops.

00:13:24You have the entirety of Europe.

00:13:26This does need to be a European-led issue.

00:13:30And again, it's a lot more than defence spending.

00:13:32It's being uncomfortably aggressive.

00:13:34And I'm not going to define that term.

00:13:36Again, you can go to a hypothetical of putting troops right there on the border.

00:13:39And there's a lot in between doing nothing and doing that.

00:13:42Those details have to be worked out.

00:13:44But it's about leverage.

00:13:46And leverage is the same whether you're in a bar fight or whether you're in an international conflict.

00:13:50It's really that simple.

00:13:52I do think Trump understands that inherently.

00:13:54This is one of the reasons, look, I think we should let this play out.

00:13:57He needs to join the Russians somehow.

00:13:59How else are you going to do it?

00:14:01You know what?

00:14:02I totally agree.

00:14:03I think Trump, the one thing you cannot dispute about Trump, he's a brilliant dealmaker.

00:14:06Whether he can pull off a good deal here where, as you say, both sides go away

00:14:11and don't feel that Ukraine has been completely destroyed and lost everything

00:14:15and Russia has won victory or that Russia is in some way treated as having lost it,

00:14:21which may in itself be an inducement to them.

00:14:23That's how World War II started, right?

00:14:25A feeling of Germans feeling they lost too much.

00:14:27It's got to be skillfully handled.

00:14:29Let's bring in the rest of the panel now.

00:14:31Glenn Greenwald, great to have you back on Censored.

00:14:33What do you make of this?

00:14:35I mean, Trump, at the very least, what he's done is immediately reestablish diplomatic ties with Russia.

00:14:41Do you think that's a good move?

00:14:44I actually do think it's good for the two countries with the world's largest nuclear stockpiles

00:14:49that have come close to nuclear Armageddon in the past to actually speak to one another.

00:14:54I think one of the worst parts of the last decade in Washington, the Russiagate hoax and all of that,

00:14:58was that it created a climate where it was almost criminal for American officials to speak to Russians.

00:15:03Even during the Cold War, when we viewed each other as existential threats,

00:15:07we had all sorts of open communication.

00:15:09The Russians would come to the United States.

00:15:11We would hear from their leaders.

00:15:12Our leaders would go over there and speak.

00:15:14Of course, these kinds of communications are vital.

00:15:17Trump deserves a lot of credit for opening that up.

00:15:19It's dangerous to the world when the Russians and the Americans don't speak.

00:15:22And I think we have to begin with, since we all love democracy here so much,

00:15:26we're all so eager to advance it around the world in between arming and propping up the Saudis and Egyptians.

00:15:31But in general, we're good people. We love democracy.

00:15:33We just had an election in 2024 in which the winning candidate, Donald Trump, went around saying,

00:15:39not as an ancillary view, but as central to his campaign,

00:15:42it's time that we keep American money in the United States for American citizens.

00:15:46We have to stop funding all of these foreign wars where our country is not at risk.

00:15:50And specifically said he wants to end the war in Ukraine.

00:15:52The Biden, Kamala Harris view, the view of the Democratic Party was, no, we can't talk to the Russians.

00:15:57We have to fund Ukraine until the very last Ukrainian is dead in order to expel all Russian troops from Ukrainian soil.

00:16:03A complete pipe dream from the start.

00:16:05And Americans voted for the candidate who said he wanted to end U.S. involvement in the war.

00:16:10That should matter if we love democracy so much.

00:16:14And I think that's what Trump, above everything, whether you disagree with him or agree with him,

00:16:19and I have both, is following through on what he promised he would do in the campaign.

00:16:23And that kind of responsiveness democratically in the United States is very rare to see.

00:16:27Yeah, I mean, I posted on X yesterday. Let me get this straight.

00:16:32Are the world's liberals now enraged that a Republican president wants to stop two wars?

00:16:38And I don't think I've had a post that's blown up quite like that in a long time.

00:16:42Millions and millions of people interacting with it because it is a weird situation where historically,

00:16:50in the last 50, 60 years, the liberal positions have been, can Republican presidents please stop going to war everywhere?

00:16:56Now you've got a Republican president who openly hates war, wants to stop it wherever it starts.

00:17:03And all right, people may not like his tactics at the moment, but he is a negotiator.

00:17:08He often uses blunt, shocking tactics to negotiate.

00:17:12And he's bringing that tool, that skill set to both Ukraine and Israel.

00:17:17But let's talk about Ukraine for the purposes of this.

00:17:21What's your view of it? Are you instinctively, this is an outrage?

00:17:25Or do you think it's quite good that a Republican president wants to have peace, not war?

00:17:32Peace, Morgan Uncensored is now proudly independent.

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00:17:41Now let's get straight to the point.

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00:19:04Now on with the show.

00:19:08So Donald Trump promoted America first.

00:19:10America first was not only to make America great again,

00:19:12but as Glenn said, yes, he also wants to invest in America.

00:19:16So what has he done with our allies?

00:19:17Well, let's see.

00:19:18He's open to using military force, his words,

00:19:21to get back what Greenland from Denmark,

00:19:23even though Greenland does not belong to the United States of America,

00:19:25he has said to our ally, Canada,

00:19:27I will make you the 51st state.

00:19:29He has the dumbest trade war in history,

00:19:31not my words, the words of Wall Street Journal,

00:19:33against our allies, Mexico and Canada.

00:19:36Also has pissed off Panama and South Africa.

00:19:38Also, he is now repeating Russian talking points

00:19:42against our ally, Ukraine.

00:19:45Facts matter, Piers, and I think you agree with me here.

00:19:47Ukraine was invaded by Vladimir Putin.

00:19:51Russia has invaded and occupied Crimea.

00:19:53Occupied people deserve the right to resist their occupation.

00:19:56In 2022, Russia had a full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

00:20:00Right now, he is mocking Ukraine.

00:20:02He is mocking Europe.

00:20:04He is being chummy with Russia,

00:20:06repeating Putin's talking points.

00:20:08Oh, that Ukraine, you started the war.

00:20:10No, Russia started the war.

00:20:12Then he said, hey, you should have elections.

00:20:14Guess who he hasn't told to have elections yet?

00:20:16Russia, Putin, free and fair elections.

00:20:18And then he promoted this lie.

00:20:20It's a total lie, nonsense.

00:20:22Only 4% of Ukrainians like Zelensky.

00:20:24It's nonsense.

00:20:26Meanwhile, our allies in Europe are terrified right now,

00:20:29are planning a future without United States

00:20:31as a potential ally as this is happening.

00:20:33Because by giving Putin a war criminal,

00:20:36all the concessions,

00:20:38without getting anything in return,

00:20:40he is meeting them in Saudi Arabia without Ukraine,

00:20:43without Europe, and America now,

00:20:45at least according to the world,

00:20:47doesn't look like America first, Piers.

00:20:49It looks like America last,

00:20:51or at the very least, he looks like,

00:20:53I'm sorry to say this, like Putin's bitch.

00:20:55And I want Donald Trump

00:20:57to tell Putin to his face,

00:20:59get out of Ukraine.

00:21:01You get out of Ukraine, stop meddling in elections,

00:21:03have free and fair elections,

00:21:05and yes, I agree with the panel,

00:21:07diplomacy is good, but not at the expense

00:21:09of giving up our sovereignty

00:21:11and giving up our allies, and especially the Ukrainians,

00:21:13who have every right to fight

00:21:15this occupation and invasion of Russia.

00:21:17All right, let's just assume for a moment

00:21:19you get your moment, and Trump says to Putin,

00:21:21get out of Ukraine, you bitch.

00:21:23He will never say that.

00:21:25He's never, ever, ever said anything bad against Putin.

00:21:27Hang on, Putin just turns around and goes,

00:21:29or what? What are you going to do about it?

00:21:31What is America going to do about it?

00:21:33This is the art of the deal.

00:21:35Both you and Dan said this is a brilliant dealmaker.

00:21:37I don't think he's a brilliant dealmaker.

00:21:39This is the art of the deal, folks.

00:21:41He is the most powerful man on earth.

00:21:43With the most powerful military.

00:21:45He has allies, European allies.

00:21:47The last thing I would do is what

00:21:49Secretary of Defense Pete Hexet said,

00:21:51which then he had to walk back, remember that?

00:21:53Give Russia all of its concessions.

00:21:55What did Hexet say?

00:21:57Well, I don't think Ukraine will ever be a part of NATO.

00:21:59Why are you conceding already?

00:22:01Stop conceding. Stop repeating Russian talking points.

00:22:03Make the threat.

00:22:05Make the bluster.

00:22:07As you said, I think Dan said this, I agree.

00:22:09Russia's actually much weaker

00:22:11than it actually performs, right?

00:22:13Europe is against Russia.

00:22:15And if the United States flexes just a little bit,

00:22:17if Donald Trump flexes just a little bit,

00:22:19Putin might actually think twice

00:22:21about continuing this occupation

00:22:23and this invasion, which is also bleeding

00:22:25Putin and Ukraine.

00:22:27What you don't do in a deal is concede

00:22:29without getting anything in return

00:22:31and throw your allies under the bus.

00:22:33Come on, Piers. I think you agree with me here.

00:22:35Actually, it's interesting because

00:22:37on the NATO point, obviously the whole point

00:22:39of Russia's point of view that Putin

00:22:41has said to them why he's been doing this

00:22:43is because he wanted

00:22:45to resist NATO encroachments.

00:22:47And the last thing, obviously, he's going to want to do

00:22:49is allow Ukraine to now,

00:22:51after three years with Russia

00:22:53effectively slowly winning this war,

00:22:55to then become a full member of NATO.

00:22:57So in a way... But now you know why Ukraine

00:22:59wants to become a member of NATO, right?

00:23:01Because they're saying, oh, wow, look, we did nothing.

00:23:03Russia invaded. No, no, I get it.

00:23:05You and I agree about this.

00:23:07But there is a cold...

00:23:09I mean, to bring Dan back in,

00:23:11there is a cold, hard reality to this,

00:23:13which is taking that off the table

00:23:15is a kind of meaningless thing either way

00:23:17because there is less than zero chance

00:23:19that Putin is ever going to tolerate

00:23:21a settlement that involves Ukraine

00:23:23getting the one thing,

00:23:25which is the reason why he said he went to war

00:23:27in the first place.

00:23:29But why concede, Piers?

00:23:31Well, hang on, let Dan respond.

00:23:33One thing that's really important

00:23:35is there's no concessions that have been given yet.

00:23:37Yes.

00:23:39We had one meeting, which was an agreement,

00:23:41to have more meetings.

00:23:43So that moment where Trump says,

00:23:45hey, you better get out of Ukraine,

00:23:47that could still be coming.

00:23:49It should still be coming.

00:23:51Of course, I think we're in agreement

00:23:53that it should come, but you have to have

00:23:55a lot more leverage that is backing you up

00:23:57when you make that demand.

00:23:59And that's part of those talks.

00:24:01This is going to be a long process.

00:24:03And there's no deal.

00:24:05That's possible as well.

00:24:07But to say that there's been concessions already,

00:24:09that's just not factual.

00:24:11And it's also not factual to say Ukrainians

00:24:13have been left out of it.

00:24:15Now, I met with Zelensky in Munich

00:24:17right after he'd met with our

00:24:19higher-level officials.

00:24:21I think a lot of the heartache and heartburn

00:24:23that maybe you're seeing publicly

00:24:25from a lot of world leaders,

00:24:27I don't see that privately.

00:24:29I think Ukrainians understand,

00:24:31what they want more than anything else

00:24:33is security guarantees.

00:24:35That doesn't necessarily mean NATO membership.

00:24:37Now, should we be talking about all this

00:24:39openly right before a negotiation?

00:24:41You can debate whether that's a good idea or not.

00:24:43But as Piers said,

00:24:45it is pretty far-fetched.

00:24:47What is not far-fetched

00:24:49is the idea of security guarantees.

00:24:51That's going to be a key demand of Ukraine.

00:24:53And Ukraine is at the table.

00:24:55General Kellogg said this

00:24:57at the Munich Security Conference

00:24:59that you're going to have a seat at the table.

00:25:01He said yes and no.

00:25:03He said Ukraine will have a seat at the table.

00:25:05Absolutely.

00:25:07That's what Trump said.

00:25:09Trump was asked categorically.

00:25:11He clarified.

00:25:13He said, to be clear,

00:25:15when it comes to the actual negotiations

00:25:17over resolving the war,

00:25:19of course Ukraine will be at the table.

00:25:21What they've had in Saudi

00:25:23is the first time that the Russians

00:25:25and the Americans have got together.

00:25:27There are people there with them every single day.

00:25:29I just think we should save our fury

00:25:31about whether Ukraine get included or not

00:25:33for when they actually get excluded.

00:25:35Can I just assert

00:25:37a little bit of realism into the conversation?

00:25:39Yes.

00:25:41Because I know Dan started off by saying,

00:25:43oh, Russia is this crappy little second-rate power.

00:25:45We have to flatter them and make them think they matter,

00:25:47but they really don't. They're really weak.

00:25:49It's always a pretty weird contradiction

00:25:51to simultaneously say that

00:25:53and then at the same time warn that Russia

00:25:55is dominating Western Europe,

00:25:57this crappy little second-rate power.

00:25:59But the reality is,

00:26:01whether you like it or not,

00:26:03Russia has fought a war now for three years

00:26:05against unified NATO and the United States,

00:26:07pouring hundreds of billions of dollars

00:26:09and highly sophisticated weapons

00:26:11into Ukraine,

00:26:13and the front line continues to move westward,

00:26:15not eastward,

00:26:17where the Russians are gaining more and more territory.

00:26:19More and more Ukrainians are being killed.

00:26:21There are fewer Ukrainian men left in that country

00:26:23who want to fight. They're being forcibly dragged in there

00:26:25and used as cannon fodder.

00:26:27They're fleeing and risking their lives to do it.

00:26:29The reality is Russia is winning the war

00:26:31or has won the war.

00:26:33You can say, oh, you must be a Kremlin agent to say that.

00:26:35You just got to know nothing

00:26:37about military information or tactics.

00:26:39That's what you have to do to say that.

00:26:41You just have to know nothing,

00:26:43which is clearly what you do.

00:26:45You've got so many facts wrong,

00:26:47it's hard to know where to even start.

00:26:49You think Ukraine is winning the war?

00:26:51In which direction is the front line moving?

00:26:53Has it moved westward or eastward?

00:26:55It depends on where you're looking at.

00:26:57I hate to break it to you,

00:26:59but it depends on where you're looking at.

00:27:01The ratios of Russian deaths to Ukrainian deaths,

00:27:03it's like four to one.

00:27:05You just don't know what you're talking about.

00:27:07You've never fought anything.

00:27:09You don't know anything about the military.

00:27:11I fought a lot of things.

00:27:13Just because you were in the military

00:27:15doesn't make you an expert.

00:27:17I don't need to be an expert.

00:27:19Clearly, Russia is winning the war.

00:27:21The Ukrainians don't even want to go

00:27:23and fight this war any longer.

00:27:25They're fleeing the country.

00:27:27It's a war of attrition with a stalemate.

00:27:29That's what we're looking at right now.

00:27:31That's the most honest way to look at it.

00:27:33I'm sorry to say,

00:27:35one of the things that I know

00:27:37that you don't actually have to go

00:27:39join the military to understand

00:27:41is that Russia is many,

00:27:43many, many times larger than Ukraine.

00:27:45That's the reason why the most

00:27:47likely scenario in 2022,

00:27:49Ukraine will inevitably lose this war

00:27:51and Russia will win it.

00:27:53I'll tell you why.

00:27:55This is the one point I want to make.

00:27:57When President Obama was on his way

00:27:59out of office in 2016,

00:28:01Jeffrey Goldberg interviewed him

00:28:03for a cover story on the Obama

00:28:05foreign policy doctrine.

00:28:07He criticized Obama for not standing

00:28:09up to Russia in Syria and in Ukraine.

00:28:11What Obama said was,

00:28:13the reality is Ukraine is

00:28:15going to be a vital interest to the United States.

00:28:17The idea that we're going to confront Russia

00:28:19or go to war with Russia over who governs

00:28:21various provinces in eastern Ukraine

00:28:23is absolute madness.

00:28:25President Obama was absolutely right

00:28:27and President Trump thinks that too.

00:28:29Two things real quick.

00:28:31Going back to the conversation you and Dan

00:28:33were having, I will say this.

00:28:35Right now Ukrainians, Zelensky and Europe

00:28:37feel like they're left out.

00:28:39That's how they feel.

00:28:41Secondly, I'm not going to be

00:28:43standing up for Russia and say they're winning a war.

00:28:45Ukrainians, having talked to them,

00:28:47having talked to the people who are resisting,

00:28:49I will tell you this. I will tell the world right now.

00:28:51Ukrainians, to the last man, to the last elder,

00:28:53to the last kid, to the last woman, will fight.

00:28:55They will fight to the end for their independence.

00:28:57It doesn't matter.

00:28:59They're being dragged there.

00:29:01They're involuntarily.

00:29:03They're all trying to fight.

00:29:05Hang on guys.

00:29:07I want to read you

00:29:09some breaking news.

00:29:11I want to sprinkle in some truth

00:29:13about the nature of the war

00:29:15with some facts that are just incorrect.

00:29:19I'm going to bring Dan in

00:29:21and then I'll let others respond.

00:29:23Let me just read what the Ukraine Foreign Minister just said.

00:29:25The Ukrainian people and their President Zelensky

00:29:27refuse to give in to Putin's pressure.

00:29:29Nobody can force Ukraine to give up.

00:29:31We will defend our right to exist.

00:29:33Dan.

00:29:35That seems pretty consistent with what they've been saying.

00:29:37I'll agree with Glenn

00:29:39on one thing.

00:29:41Without Western support, yes,

00:29:43Russia would eventually beat Ukraine.

00:29:45I think people forget

00:29:47the geopolitical strategies of this.

00:29:49For America, even for Europeans,

00:29:51this isn't so much about Ukraine.

00:29:53It's about Russia.

00:29:55Yes, I'd hate to break it to you,

00:29:57but it's not a contradiction

00:29:59to say that they are a second-rate power

00:30:01but they would also invade Baltic states.

00:30:03That has long been part of Putin's

00:30:05plan for Russia, and they can do it

00:30:07if Europe and the United States lets them.

00:30:09Yes, they can do it to a small state

00:30:11if they let them.

00:30:13This is kind of how World War II happened,

00:30:15if I may remind everyone.

00:30:17There is a domino effect here,

00:30:19and there is grander purpose

00:30:21by Putin, and you just have to listen

00:30:23to what he says, you don't have to take my word for it,

00:30:25to expand their sphere.

00:30:27They can say that they feel under threat

00:30:29by NATO. They're full of crap.

00:30:31We know for a fact they've never felt threatened

00:30:33by NATO, only to the extent that they don't like

00:30:35NATO because it means they can't conquer other countries

00:30:37and take their stuff.

00:30:39Now, here's the biggest important part about

00:30:41geostrategic implications for the United States.

00:30:43This is why it's about Russia, not Ukraine.

00:30:45When you allow dictators to just conquer

00:30:47other countries and take their stuff,

00:30:49you have reverted us to a pre-World War II

00:30:51history. That's problematic.

00:30:53That was a time in history, in the last

00:30:55thousands of years, when we didn't

00:30:57have a global economy. Life sucked.

00:30:59There were tens of millions dead in wars

00:31:01and it was normalized for

00:31:03dictators to invade others if they wanted

00:31:05to take their stuff. And for the last 80

00:31:07years, America has led an order where we don't allow

00:31:09that. That's actually what's at stake

00:31:11for American interests. It's American

00:31:13deterrence for the next 50 years.

00:31:15Now, I'm with you. You have to talk to Russia.

00:31:17You have to end this somehow.

00:31:19The war of attrition cannot continue.

00:31:21I think we agree there. You have

00:31:23some weird facts about how what's going on

00:31:25on the battlefield that I think are just untrue,

00:31:27but we agree mainly on what needs to happen

00:31:29Can all of us agree

00:31:31that we're anti-occupation

00:31:33peers? Can all of us agree that

00:31:35people have a right to resist an illegal

00:31:37occupation? What I don't understand is why

00:31:39Glenn is so pro-Russia, or it seems

00:31:41pro-Russia, and says, hey, it's inevitable.

00:31:43Ukraine, sorry, you're going to get gobbled

00:31:45up by Russia. Hey, let's

00:31:47back out. But at the same time,

00:31:49are you fine with Palestinians resisting

00:31:51their occupation right now? I mean,

00:31:53for a person who has spoken so much about

00:31:55Palestine, Palestinians who are being

00:31:57occupied by Israel, you have

00:31:59the complete opposite logic when it comes to

00:32:01Russia occupying Ukraine, Glenn, and I

00:32:03wonder why. Why are you so morally

00:32:05inconsistent?

00:32:07Why does every liberal sound like William F. Buckley?

00:32:09First, you cite the Wall Street Journal editorial

00:32:11page to guide your economic dogma,

00:32:13and now you're accusing everybody

00:32:15of being the Kremlin bitch and the Russian

00:32:17propagandist. I've talked to people

00:32:19who are strategists. The fact

00:32:21that you use that. You said

00:32:23Putin's bitch for Donald Trump.

00:32:25You look at just

00:32:27the population size

00:32:29and what Ukrainian

00:32:31officials have been saying,

00:32:33which is that only Zelensky believes

00:32:35that Ukraine can win this war.

00:32:37Even in Western capitals, they understand

00:32:39that there's no way to defeat Russia

00:32:41without deploying European troops, and Europe

00:32:43doesn't have a credible army to go and do that.

00:32:45Keir Starmer threatened it. He felt strong

00:32:47for a day, and then he backtracked and said, well,

00:32:49actually, we can't do anything without American air

00:32:51support and American cover, which is the reality.

00:32:53Western Europe does not have a credible

00:32:55military. Russia has a

00:32:57much more powerful military, and ultimately

00:32:59one of the most important things that determines war

00:33:01is how willing people are to fight for

00:33:03it, and the reason the Russians are so willing to

00:33:05fight for it. You can go back and look at

00:33:072008 memos from people

00:33:09like William Burns, who ran the CIA under

00:33:11Biden, in which he said that

00:33:13everybody in Russia, not just

00:33:15Putin and his allies, but everybody,

00:33:17left-wing, opponents of Putin,

00:33:19uber-nationalists who are to Putin's right,

00:33:21all agree that NATO membership

00:33:23for Ukraine is an existential

00:33:25threat to Russia, and they will annex

00:33:27Crimea and invade eastern

00:33:29Ukraine if you try and do that.

00:33:31The United States government has a long note

00:33:33that no matter what, we will

00:33:35be independent. We will fight for our independence

00:33:37no matter what happens.

00:33:39The Ukrainians have every right to fight.

00:33:41The Ukrainians have every

00:33:43right to fight. Nobody denies that.

00:33:45Just give me a second.

00:33:47And also, as you know, since you're

00:33:49so brilliant and you know a lot about Russia and

00:33:51Putin, Putin believes

00:33:53that EU, NATO,

00:33:55European allies, United States is the enemy.

00:33:57You know that Putin's goal has always been

00:33:59to recreate the USSR. He says

00:34:01the greatest defeat, the greatest tragedy

00:34:03that he witnessed in his lifetime was the collapse

00:34:05of the USSR, and he wants to make Russia

00:34:07great again. So it's not just Ukraine.

00:34:09Ukraine is just a chess piece

00:34:11for Putin's ambitions to regain

00:34:13control, to get more territory, to make Russia

00:34:15great again, and we have a chance right

00:34:17here. No matter how

00:34:19flawed we are, we are flawed. I agree with you.

00:34:21The hypocrisy, the flaws, yes, but nonetheless

00:34:23a post-World War II order that

00:34:25at the very least, in some way, promotes

00:34:27democracy. I hope free and fair elections.

00:34:29I hope in some way liberalism says,

00:34:31enough. We're going to stand up to dictators,

00:34:33a brutal war criminal, which is Putin,

00:34:35who is against American interests, against

00:34:37European interests, and we're going to make sure you

00:34:39don't do this to any other country. It stops

00:34:41right here at Ukraine. But you say

00:34:43roll over for Putin. I wonder

00:34:45why. I mean, I would say on the

00:34:47dictator point... Probably because I'm a Kremlin

00:34:49agent. Probably because I'm a paid agent of the

00:34:51Kremlin, which is what you're implying.

00:34:53No, I'm not. Don't confess. I think the Ukrainians have the right

00:34:55to fight for as long as... The reason

00:34:57the Ukrainians have a right... The Ukrainians have

00:34:59the right to fight all they want. The question is

00:35:01whether or not the United States is duty-bound,

00:35:03and whether American workers are duty-bound

00:35:05to finance that war. And Americans

00:35:07made very clear in this election... But Glenn, but Glenn,

00:35:09just to jump in. ...that they don't want to.

00:35:11Just to jump in, Glenn. On that point,

00:35:13about your apparent inconsistency,

00:35:15what is the difference in your

00:35:17head between the situation

00:35:19in Gaza and the situation

00:35:21in Ukraine?

00:35:23I think the Palestinians have

00:35:25the right to resist the occupation. I think the Ukrainians

00:35:27have the right to fight the Russians as well.

00:35:29I don't have any inconsistencies at all.

00:35:31I'm not advocating that the United States

00:35:33arm the people of Gaza to fight against the

00:35:35Israeli occupation, just like I'm not

00:35:37advocating that the United States arm the people of Ukraine...

00:35:39So should Israel be allowed to keep land

00:35:41in Gaza, then?

00:35:43No, but

00:35:45they're going to because it's the reality.

00:35:47Even though I don't like it, it's the reality

00:35:49that the Israelis are vastly stronger.

00:35:51So my point is, what is the difference?

00:35:53If you think that they should

00:35:55not be allowed to keep land in Gaza,

00:35:57having attacked it, but you think

00:35:59that Russia... I'm not going to put words in your mouth,

00:36:01but do you think that Russia should be allowed

00:36:03to keep the land they've taken, to go

00:36:05with the land they took in Crimea? I mean, do you think

00:36:07they should be allowed to? No, I don't

00:36:09think it's right, but I recognize

00:36:11the reality that the Israeli Jews are not going

00:36:13anywhere. They're going to stay in Israel.

00:36:15They're going to end up annexing the West Bank.

00:36:17Miriam Adelson paid for that to make sure.

00:36:19And they're going to continue to do whatever they want

00:36:21in Gaza and Syria and Lebanon, occupying

00:36:23the parts of those countries they're occupying.

00:36:25That's just the reality, even though I don't think they should.

00:36:27The reality is that Russia is a

00:36:29much stronger country than Ukraine

00:36:31and is going to end up protecting

00:36:33the ethnic Russian population in Crimea

00:36:35and eastern Ukraine, whether we like it

00:36:37or not. And this is something the U.S. government has

00:36:39known for many years, as I just referenced, that

00:36:41Bill Burns' memo and a lot of other documents that ended

00:36:43up emerging showed that the U.S.

00:36:45government knew that. The problem with Glenn, it's not

00:36:47so much that he's inconsistent. I think he just

00:36:49fundamentally disagrees or doesn't understand

00:36:51what I laid out about the geopolitics of the

00:36:53last 80 years. That's one problem.

00:36:55Second problem is, I think if Glenn's buddy was

00:36:57getting his butt kicked at the local bar,

00:36:59he would let him, because he would say, well, I have no chance of

00:37:01winning, so forget it.

00:37:03I mean, that's another problem.

00:37:05That's a moral and ethical issue,

00:37:07and you don't have to care about that. But I think

00:37:09on the geopolitical issue of the world order

00:37:11for the last 80 years that America has largely

00:37:13benefited from, massively,

00:37:15actually, you have to take that into account

00:37:17when you deal with global players

00:37:19that want to engage in the first

00:37:21global war of conquest

00:37:23since World War II. That's a pretty big deal.

00:37:25Yeah. Let's bring in Rod. Rod's

00:37:27now joined us. Hang on, hang on, Glenn.

00:37:29Hang on, Glenn. We've been joined

00:37:31by Rod Blagojevich. I want to bring him in

00:37:33very patiently. Rod, good to have

00:37:35you back on our show. You've been pardoned

00:37:37since I last spoke to you.

00:37:39First of all, your reaction to that

00:37:41pardon.

00:37:43Well, last time

00:37:45I talked to you, Piers, I was a convicted felon.

00:37:47I'm no longer that. I never should have

00:37:49been one, because none of those things were criminal, but

00:37:51of course, it's everlasting great

00:37:53gratitude to President Trump for doing

00:37:55for a Democratic governor

00:37:57something that he didn't really have to do.

00:37:59It doesn't help him politically at all. He saw something

00:38:01that was wrong and he ended it, and I'm

00:38:03grateful to him and very excited about

00:38:05the new beginning that I've been given and have

00:38:07had, frankly, for the last five years

00:38:09since he pulled me out of prison after eight years.

00:38:11So, it's great to be back as

00:38:13no longer a felon, and I

00:38:15will continue to still fight to expose

00:38:17the truth of what was a corrupt

00:38:19prosecution against me by corrupt prosecutors

00:38:21who've turned themselves into political

00:38:23weapons and political hitmen. Okay.

00:38:25That's dealt with.

00:38:27And good to interview you as no longer

00:38:29a convicted felon for the first time.

00:38:31Let me ask you

00:38:33about this Ukraine

00:38:35situation. I think anyone

00:38:37who thinks this is easy to resolve

00:38:39is living in cloud cuckoo land.

00:38:41And I do fundamentally

00:38:43believe, having known Trump 20 years,

00:38:45that he is not going to want Putin

00:38:47to just walk away with a big win.

00:38:49But it's very tricky

00:38:51to see how he navigates

00:38:53this in a way. I interviewed Zelensky

00:38:55last week, and he made it clear.

00:38:57I mean, he pretty much conceded

00:38:59he wasn't going to get NATO membership.

00:39:01What he wants in return

00:39:03for not surrendering the sovereignty

00:39:05of the land that's been taken, but for

00:39:07basically freezing the war

00:39:09on the current geographic lines

00:39:11is that he wants enough

00:39:13security guarantees

00:39:15from NATO and from the rest of

00:39:17Europe to ensure that Putin

00:39:19doesn't attack again. And

00:39:21that in itself is complicated, because Britain's

00:39:23already said, we'll put troops on the ground.

00:39:25We don't have many troops.

00:39:27We've got 72,000 left in the British

00:39:29Army. We are woefully depleted

00:39:31even to defend ourselves,

00:39:33never mind giving a chunk of those

00:39:35over to Ukraine for an indeterminate

00:39:37period. So that's not going to be easy.

00:39:39But what do you think, Rod, about

00:39:41where we are with this and where we

00:39:43may end up?

00:39:45Well, I think

00:39:47of President Trump and I think of President Roosevelt,

00:39:49Teddy Roosevelt, who was the last

00:39:51president in American history to actually intervene

00:39:53in the war that Russia was involved in.

00:39:55It was the Russo-Japanese War.

00:39:57And Teddy Roosevelt got a Nobel Peace Prize

00:39:59because he intervened and brought peace. He negotiated

00:40:01a settlement between the two sides.

00:40:03And I think President Trump is attempting to do the same

00:40:05thing, and I'm confident in his abilities

00:40:07that if anybody can do it, he can do it.

00:40:09When it comes to security guarantees that the

00:40:11Ukrainian people are correctly

00:40:13concerned about and ought to

00:40:15have, I would suggest that

00:40:17they look at recent history and look at

00:40:19the situation with the former Yugoslavia

00:40:21and how they were able to ultimately, through the Dayton

00:40:23Accords and the UN

00:40:25peacekeepers, to

00:40:27solidify the agreements

00:40:29that were made there. I would suggest that perhaps

00:40:31in this particular case,

00:40:33Russia-Ukraine, UN peacekeepers

00:40:35should be in there. The Russians aren't going to

00:40:37trust NATO or any British troops

00:40:39or American troops to be peacekeepers

00:40:41there. It'll have to be third parties that are

00:40:43really unconnected and don't have

00:40:45geopolitical interests involved

00:40:47in that part of the world. So I would

00:40:49suggest UN peacekeepers,

00:40:51and I think there's

00:40:53historical precedent for that, and

00:40:55that's why we have a United Nations to do just

00:40:57that sort of thing. There was a time

00:40:59when every conservative in

00:41:01America would be utterly united

00:41:03in wanting to kick a Russian

00:41:05dictator out of a sovereign

00:41:07democratic European country he

00:41:09had illegally invaded. Very

00:41:11different now. There are a lot of

00:41:13conservatives, Republicans in America

00:41:15who do not share that view,

00:41:17who do not think that America

00:41:19should continue to support Ukraine

00:41:21in this. What do you think has changed

00:41:23here?

00:41:25Well, the world's a very different

00:41:27place today. It's a post-Cold War

00:41:29international

00:41:31stage now. My

00:41:33father came from Eastern Europe, Yugoslavia

00:41:35after World War II, and he was an ardent anti-

00:41:37communist. He wouldn't go back to his country

00:41:39after having fought the Nazis for four years.

00:41:41And so a lot of the Eastern Europeans,

00:41:43like my dad, who came across

00:41:45the Atlantic after World War II,

00:41:47were ardent Cold Warriors.

00:41:49They were very much against the Soviet Union

00:41:51and the fear of the encroachment of communism

00:41:53and the aggressive nature

00:41:55of international communism.

00:41:57But that's no longer the challenge. It's a very

00:41:59different world of politics. The geopolitics

00:42:01is very different today. And it's really,

00:42:03I think, goes back to Roosevelt

00:42:05and Churchill and Stalin at Yalta

00:42:07and the discussion of spheres of influence

00:42:09when we consider what this new

00:42:11post-Cold War world

00:42:13is like. And I would suggest that we

00:42:15remember history, and in both World Wars,

00:42:17I know we don't like the Russians,

00:42:19but in both World Wars, Russia was

00:42:21on our side. And I don't think

00:42:23it's unreasonable to suggest that

00:42:25maybe we think about the Russian point of view

00:42:27and their concerns about the encroachment

00:42:29of the West going East

00:42:31and the mistrust in particular, historically,

00:42:33with what they've

00:42:35had to face with Germany.

00:42:37Look, I think the opportunity

00:42:39for peace is here because President Trump is determined

00:42:41to do it. It's been three years of a war of attrition.

00:42:43And whether the Ukrainians are

00:42:45winning or losing, or the Russians are winning or losing,

00:42:47blessed are the peacemakers.

00:42:49And if there's a way to be able to stop this war and save

00:42:51lives, and there's a way to negotiate

00:42:53security guarantees

00:42:55and have third parties

00:42:57guarantee that those things happen,

00:42:59I think all power to President Trump and what he's

00:43:01trying to do. Okay. Let's

00:43:03switch gears for

00:43:05the rest of this debate to doge,

00:43:07this new word that everyone's

00:43:09talking about. I was watching

00:43:11Sean Hannity interview Donald

00:43:13Trump and Elon Musk together last night.

00:43:15It's very interesting, actually.

00:43:17I want to play a clip from that where Trump talks

00:43:19about people age 300

00:43:21years old getting Social Security

00:43:23payments.

00:43:27We have millions

00:43:29and millions of people over 100 years old.

00:43:31Everybody knows that's not so.

00:43:33We have a very corrupt

00:43:35country, very corrupt country,

00:43:37and it's a sad thing to say, but

00:43:39we're figuring it out.

00:43:41Now, the good thing about Social Security

00:43:43and what I read is

00:43:45if you take all of those numbers

00:43:47off, because they're obviously fraudulent

00:43:49or incompetent,

00:43:51but if you take all of those

00:43:53millions of people off Social Security,

00:43:55all of a sudden we have a very

00:43:57powerful Social Security

00:43:59with people that are 80 and 70

00:44:01and 90, but not

00:44:03200. That was actually

00:44:05from a press conference he gave. He expanded

00:44:07on it with Sean Hannity

00:44:09and went on to say that there

00:44:11are people 100, 200, even 300

00:44:13year old getting benefits

00:44:15because of the way the

00:44:17system is failing. People stay on

00:44:19there, they're put on the wrong age and so on.

00:44:21And Elon Musk expanded

00:44:23on it as well. And I'll start with

00:44:25you, Wajahat, here. Elon Musk

00:44:27has become a bit of a bogeyman to the left

00:44:29in all this, but I've got to say

00:44:31when I hear him talking about

00:44:33getting all these brilliant young minds

00:44:35he's got to basically go through

00:44:37with algorithms, all the federal

00:44:39spending, the stuff

00:44:41they're finding. If I was American, I'd be

00:44:43like, good, get stuck

00:44:45in, find me more of this

00:44:47ridiculous abuse. Do you have a

00:44:49problem with it? So your

00:44:51producer should update you with facts

00:44:53with that Social Security nonsense. They

00:44:55didn't know how to read the data.

00:44:57People who are 200 years old and 150 years

00:44:59old aren't getting Social Security

00:45:01benefits, right? According to their own

00:45:03data, apparently 86% of

00:45:05recipients are fraudulent. No.

00:45:07They're misreading the data. This is why

00:45:09you don't have 19 to 25 year olds without

00:45:11any experience now having access

00:45:13to our tax documents, to our Social Security

00:45:15numbers, to our Treasury Department.

00:45:17This is why you have to have oversight. Also,

00:45:19another piece of news that came out today.

00:45:21Doge said that they saved $8 billion.

00:45:23Guess what? Math matters.

00:45:25They misread a couple of numbers.

00:45:278 million. Guess what also we found out?

00:45:29That these brilliant 19 to 25

00:45:31year olds, these teenagers,

00:45:33who we have no idea about their expertise,

00:45:35their experience, no accountability, no oversight,

00:45:37they accidentally fired

00:45:39hundreds of federal employees

00:45:41who look over our nuclear

00:45:43weapon stockpile, and now they're

00:45:45desperately trying to rehire them. You know

00:45:47what they also did, these brilliant people?

00:45:49Because apparently, according

00:45:51to Stephen Miller and according to

00:45:53government filings, right, that lawsuit,

00:45:55Elon Musk does not run Doge.

00:45:57We still don't know who actually runs Doge,

00:45:59which should be pretty important, who runs Doge.

00:46:01But also what we found out is they're desperately

00:46:03trying to rehire the people overseeing

00:46:05bird flu. So they're firing people,

00:46:07trying to rehire them, and right now in America,

00:46:09Pierce, there are several people

00:46:11not involved in our FAA.

00:46:13Right now, according to The Rolling Stone yesterday,

00:46:15an FAA member said there are five

00:46:17people in our federal aviation agency

00:46:19doing the work of 14 people, and if

00:46:21you've seen in the past month, airplanes

00:46:23are going down in America.

00:46:25So tell me how this is making us great again.

00:46:27Are you not worried? I'm worried.

00:46:29The last question I want to ask, and maybe

00:46:31the Republican here, Dan Crenshaw, knows

00:46:33the answer. Who's running Doge, number one,

00:46:35and what is actually Elon Musk's

00:46:37role? Because yesterday, when Donald Trump

00:46:39was asked, he said, you can call him

00:46:41whatever you want. He's a patriot.

00:46:43That is concerning to me.

00:46:45Okay, Dan.

00:46:47I'm part of the legislative branch, not the executive,

00:46:49so you can ask that to the administration.

00:46:51But look, anybody who works for the executive...

00:46:53I'm giving you an answer. Everybody who works for the executive

00:46:55works for the executive.

00:46:57What Elon Musk has done is he's put a much more

00:46:59famous face to it, so I think it's created this

00:47:01boogeyman effect. In the end,

00:47:03this is the kind of thing that would happen

00:47:05with an incoming Republican administration,

00:47:07no matter what. There's a desire

00:47:09to cut waste. There's a desire to go into it.

00:47:11I wasn't sure what Doge was going to do.

00:47:13I've been somewhat impressed with what niche

00:47:15they've actually found, which is data analytics.

00:47:17Now, are they going to make mistakes along the way, misinterpret

00:47:19some things? Yes, but we live in a transparent

00:47:21and open society, and then those things get corrected,

00:47:23which is what's happening. You literally describe

00:47:25some problems that happen, and then the corrections

00:47:27that are being made. I'm okay with that

00:47:29because something has to happen

00:47:31with the bloat of the federal government.

00:47:33I think there's going to be speed bumps.

00:47:35There's going to be speed bumps, but I think

00:47:37the broader intent here is

00:47:39noble. Yes, you

00:47:41have to look at the data correctly, but nobody has even

00:47:43bothered to try

00:47:45with... Again, and you do need those young software

00:47:47engineers to be able to do that. And then you

00:47:49do need people who are seasoned policy

00:47:51makers who understand exactly how the system works

00:47:53to figure out what the policy is.

00:47:55I don't think it's fair to say that Doge

00:47:57fires people. The executive

00:47:59fires people who work for the executive.

00:48:01And that's how it should be. Dan,

00:48:03be honest. How would you have felt

00:48:05if it was a Democrat

00:48:07administration and they brought in, say,

00:48:09Mark Zuckerberg in his previous

00:48:11incarnation as a liberal,

00:48:13and he was doing what Elon Musk is doing?

00:48:15Would you feel uncomfortable about it?

00:48:17I was very uncomfortable when the last

00:48:19Democrat administration was working with

00:48:21social media companies to censor

00:48:23people online.

00:48:25But that's also

00:48:27apples and oranges. You're talking about

00:48:29firing federal employees who work for the federal

00:48:31government. Having a multi-billionaire

00:48:33tech bro in

00:48:35there with any administration, is it right?

00:48:37A lot of their cabinet

00:48:39secretaries are people who are just

00:48:41really rich people who donate to their campaign.

00:48:43Nothing new.

00:48:45And if somebody has a history

00:48:47of going into organizations and making them

00:48:49more efficient, Elon Musk does

00:48:51have that history. It remains to be seen

00:48:53whether it works with the bureaucracy.

00:48:55That's why I didn't know what they were going to do.

00:48:57I have been impressed with the niche they found, which is

00:48:59purely data analytics.

00:49:01Now, they need to

00:49:03interpret that data correctly and then

00:49:05figure out what policy measures take place after that.

00:49:07They're not in charge of the policy measures, and I think

00:49:09that's what a lot of left-wing media gets wrong.

00:49:11If somebody gets fired at DOE,

00:49:13talk to the Secretary of Energy.

00:49:15On the

00:49:17FAA thing,

00:49:19Sean Duffy, Secretary of Transportation,

00:49:21just put out, look, everybody calm down.

00:49:23The FAA has 45,000

00:49:25employees. They've fired

00:49:27about 400, all of which were on

00:49:29probationary periods, less than a year

00:49:31at the FAA. Everybody calm down.

00:49:33Plays are going down in a lot of places, but actually

00:49:35if you start looking at a map, it's not in America.

00:49:37And there's a lot of reasons for that. It's not

00:49:39because of DOE or the FAA.

00:49:41Look, if you can make a causal connection

00:49:43between that employee being fired and

00:49:45a plane going down, be my guest, but you

00:49:47can't. I can. I'm

00:49:49right here at DCA, right here, 20

00:49:51minutes away from me, right? There was no head of

00:49:53FAA because Elon Musk fired the FAA

00:49:55chief. There was no head of GSA.

00:49:57So you think that

00:49:59ground controllers all of a sudden have no idea what to do?

00:50:01Is that what you think? You think pilots

00:50:03all of a sudden lose their training because there's no head

00:50:05of the FAA? I'll bet you

00:50:07right now most pilots don't even know who the head

00:50:09of the FAA is. Just let me finish.

00:50:11There was a temporary

00:50:13freeze on air

00:50:15controllers and in DCA, where

00:50:17the plane collided, where it was the most

00:50:19dangerous airplane casualty

00:50:21on the ground in 16 years, where nearly 70

00:50:23people died. There was one person

00:50:25manning two air controllers.

00:50:27That's a job of two people. We know

00:50:29that that was pilot error. Right now,

00:50:31the people in the FAA, right now in the FAA,

00:50:33they're saying there are five people doing the job

00:50:35of 14 people. And Axios

00:50:37just did a poll where Americans are terrified

00:50:39of flying. It's terrible for American business.

00:50:41Terrible for American flyers.

00:50:43And we've never seen this many

00:50:45crashes and collisions domestically

00:50:47ever in the first month of any presidency.

00:50:49And it coincides with Elon Musk

00:50:51and Doge. The FAA has 45,000

00:50:53employees. I don't know

00:50:55what you're talking about with 14 versus 5.

00:50:57You should be worried as well.

00:50:59Let me ask Len.

00:51:01The truth about the plane crashes,

00:51:03we don't actually know how any of them have happened yet.

00:51:05We haven't had the final results on this.

00:51:07It looks more and more like it was

00:51:09pilot error that caused the crash

00:51:11in DC, for example.

00:51:13And that's just what it is.

00:51:15Probably nothing to do with the FAA.

00:51:17Although it exposed the fact that they're not

00:51:19as well-staffed as perhaps they should be.

00:51:21But that's been going on for years,

00:51:23including under the Democrats. 45,000

00:51:25employees. If they're not well-staffed, then

00:51:27they're not using their staff very well. Right.

00:51:29Which may well be the case. We just don't know yet.

00:51:31It appears there was no head of FAA while

00:51:33the plane crashed.

00:51:35Let me bring in Glen.

00:51:37Glen, on a wider point,

00:51:39we'll come to the plane in a bit,

00:51:41on a wider point, this whole Doge thing

00:51:43is proving very popular with the

00:51:45American people. This is what

00:51:47Trump said he was going to do.

00:51:49He's doing it. And the thing I was struck by

00:51:51with the interview with Elon Musk he did with

00:51:53Fox was that actually

00:51:55you've got a guy in Trump who has

00:51:57the big picture vision for this stuff,

00:51:59what he wants to do, cut waste.

00:52:01He brings in all these executive

00:52:03orders. And unusually,

00:52:05compared to many executive orders that never get implemented,

00:52:07he's got somebody, Musk, who can get

00:52:09stuff done and get it done very quickly.

00:52:11And that is what's happening.

00:52:13It's unnerving people.

00:52:15But is it necessarily wrong?

00:52:17I think that

00:52:19is the important point, is that

00:52:21you look at every election for, say, the last

00:52:2340 years, and the winning candidate makes

00:52:25all kinds of promises to induce people

00:52:27to vote for them. They get into office

00:52:29and very little of it happens, either

00:52:31through lack of conviction, lack of effort, or just

00:52:33bureaucratic inertia. And

00:52:35here you have this flurry of actions,

00:52:37most of which are, in fact, consistent with

00:52:39what Trump said he was going to do, including

00:52:41cutting government waste and government spending and the like.

00:52:43I think there's a lot of hysteria

00:52:45on both sides. Elon Musk is finding

00:52:47some wasteful things that, of course, are going to happen

00:52:49in a government of the sides and exaggerating the

00:52:51importance of it. On the other side, you have

00:52:53people disgustingly trying to exploit

00:52:55tragedies like a plane falling out of the sky

00:52:57to blame it on Elon Musk and Trump,

00:52:59even though they have absolutely no sense at

00:53:01all whether there's any relationship between

00:53:03the two. But at the end of the day, it's

00:53:05fine to get rid of waste. It's fine to get rid of

00:53:07fraud. Of course, everybody

00:53:09is in favor of that. The reality is you're

00:53:11never going to make a meaningful dent in government

00:53:13spending in the United States unless you go

00:53:15and really attack

00:53:17frontally two different

00:53:19aspects. Either you go across the

00:53:21Potomac, as Steve Bannon put it,

00:53:23and you go to the Pentagon, or you go into

00:53:25Social Security and other entitlements.

00:53:27Until you do either of those,

00:53:29you're kind of just trimming out the margins.

00:53:31I think the biggest benefit of what DOJ has

00:53:33done so far is brought transparency

00:53:35to this kind of administrative

00:53:37state that really believes it has the right

00:53:39to rule on its own. Like USAID,

00:53:41people show up at their door and they say, who are you to come

00:53:43here? We're the elected government. We're actually

00:53:45the elected representatives who are

00:53:47supposed to set policy. You have this whole deep

00:53:49state, this whole administrative state

00:53:51that runs things on their own. That's a

00:53:53part of why nothing gets done in Washington even

00:53:55after elections. Okay. Rod,

00:53:57what do you feel about DOJ? I mean, again,

00:53:59I'll ask you the same question. If this was

00:54:01the Democrats and it was

00:54:03Joe Biden,

00:54:05I think a lot of the people who are defending

00:54:07it, if it was Zuckerberg

00:54:09in there in his previous incarnation with

00:54:11the Democrat administration, would probably be saying the complete

00:54:13opposite. But putting the politics aside,

00:54:15the principle of having

00:54:17a very, very, the richest

00:54:19guy, most successful guy in America

00:54:21actually pouring over

00:54:23federal government overspending

00:54:25and exposing it in a

00:54:27very transparent way, albeit

00:54:29making mistakes and then admitting we made a mistake.

00:54:31He's quite open about that. But what

00:54:33do you feel about the principle of this happening

00:54:35given he's an unelected official?

00:54:39Well, no, I think it's absolutely necessary

00:54:41actually that you have somebody from the outside,

00:54:43a successful businessman like him.

00:54:45I mean, I don't know that you can get much more successful

00:54:47than Elon Musk taking a look

00:54:49at the books and taking a look to see whether or not

00:54:51there's ways to bring efficiency to government

00:54:53and protect the taxpayer dollars. It would

00:54:55have been refreshing if a Democratic

00:54:57president did something like that. Being

00:54:59a Democratic governor, I know when I became the

00:55:01governor of Illinois, I was shocked

00:55:03when they gave me the keys to the office to find all the

00:55:05kinds of waste and inefficiencies

00:55:07and special interest spending

00:55:09that was not near

00:55:11any of the priorities that would have actually helped people.

00:55:13So I would suspect without knowing

00:55:15the details of the federal budget

00:55:17that Elon Musk and

00:55:19Doge is going to find all kinds of waste.

00:55:21And I would agree with Glenn Greenwald

00:55:23when he talks about, you know, the

00:55:25margins and the

00:55:27need to look at places like the Pentagon.

00:55:29And I do think that there's all kinds of places

00:55:31in the Pentagon, having served on the House Armed

00:55:33Services Committee for six years,

00:55:35where they'll find a chock full of

00:55:37opportunities to cut wasteful spending

00:55:39and protect taxpayers' dollars.

00:55:41Right. Well, Jonathan, you were grinning

00:55:43away there in a rather sinister way.

00:55:45So what are you grinning about?

00:55:47I was having fun, you know, Rod

00:55:49allegedly, well, he was convicted

00:55:51of trying to sell a U.S. Senate seat

00:55:53and now he's talking about how he would have

00:55:55loved to, you know, take out waste and

00:55:57fraud. That was funny to me. But real quick,

00:55:59I want to ask you a question, Pearson. This is a sincere question.

00:56:01And you know I'm not a fan of Donald Trump.

00:56:03I never have been, but he is the president

00:56:05of the United States. I saw

00:56:07an image last week that

00:56:09really disturbed me. It was Donald Trump sitting at

00:56:11his desk, quietly, as

00:56:13Elon Musk, who is unelected,

00:56:15and as of yesterday, he's not the head of Doge,

00:56:17according to the Trump administration,

00:56:19and we still don't know what he does,

00:56:21a South African immigrant billionaire who gave $290

00:56:23million to Trump, addressing the press

00:56:25from the Oval Office. His son

00:56:27picked his nose, wiped it on

00:56:29the Oval Office desk, and then he told

00:56:31Donald Trump, shush your mouth.

00:56:33And then we saw yesterday, Elon Musk,

00:56:35the richest man on Earth, a South African

00:56:37immigrant billionaire who gave $290 million,

00:56:39we don't know his role, sitting

00:56:41next to Donald Trump, addressing the press.

00:56:43This, to me,

00:56:45Pierce, is not normal,

00:56:47and seeing Donald Trump quietly sit

00:56:49there as Elon Musk addressed

00:56:51the press was really shameful

00:56:53for me. I thought that was a

00:56:55bad look for America, and

00:56:57I agree with you. I think you're leaning in this direction

00:56:59that if any other president did this,

00:57:01Republican or Democrat, I think

00:57:03we'd be very concerned.

00:57:05I mean, to give the same criticisms of

00:57:07Biden every time somebody else had to pull him off

00:57:09the stage, it's not that weird when

00:57:11somebody who works for the president is

00:57:13delivering a press conference.

00:57:15That happens every day. It's the press secretary,

00:57:17for instance. I'm not sure I understand.

00:57:21I think if there's one person

00:57:23who's not getting taken advantage of or overshadowed,

00:57:25it's going to be Donald Trump. I have a lot

00:57:27of faith that he wouldn't let that

00:57:29happen. I do think that he's in control.

00:57:31If you don't like people being fired

00:57:33from the executive branch, look to the executive.

00:57:35Look, and by the

00:57:37way, I think it should be a lot easier to fire people

00:57:39from the executive branch. Doesn't it look

00:57:41like weakness? And I'm no fan of Donald Trump.

00:57:43It looked like weakness to me.

00:57:45I'm like, I don't like this man. I'm going to be honest

00:57:47with you. I do not like Donald Trump,

00:57:49but he is still the president, not

00:57:51Elon Musk. Why is Elon Musk,

00:57:53an unelected South African billionaire,

00:57:55addressing the press in the

00:57:57Oval Office as his kid? Because Donald

00:57:59Trump lets him. Because President Trump lets

00:58:01him. Because Trump is secure. Why?

00:58:03Because he's secure in his position. Trump knows

00:58:05that he could get rid of Elon Musk right now, and his

00:58:07supporters would still back him. And I think that's

00:58:09true. Also,

00:58:11Elon Musk, I don't know why you just refer

00:58:13to him as a South African. He's actually an American

00:58:15citizen, and it actually counts, even if you're not

00:58:17born in the United States and you become an American citizen. Yeah, it wasn't

00:58:19bigoted of you, that, but y'all have to.

00:58:21As anybody. And also, the

00:58:23Democratic Party uses billionaires for

00:58:25all sorts of things all the time. Who do you think shepherded

00:58:27the United States through the 2008 financial

00:58:29crisis for President Obama? He had

00:58:31a whole row of billionaires, many of whom had

00:58:33donated huge amounts to the Democratic Party

00:58:35in his campaign to try and

00:58:37help the United States get out of the financial crisis.

00:58:39And lo and behold, they ended up helping the Wall Street

00:58:41barons who caused it, because that's

00:58:43who had Obama's ear. This is, it's not

00:58:45like only Trump has a billionaire. So it's okay when Trump

00:58:47does it, with Musk? The only

00:58:49thing that Elon Musk can do, as

00:58:51Dan said, is whatever Trump empowers

00:58:53him to do. Just like Cabinet Secretaries,

00:58:55just like the entire executive branch, which

00:58:57is unelected, but relies on the executive

00:58:59branch, the executive, the elected president, to

00:59:01fulfil the authority

00:59:03he gives them. Right, and Wajahat, can I just ask you,

00:59:05Wajahat, Wajahat, you've slammed Elon

00:59:07Musk repeatedly as a South African

00:59:09immigrant, and yet right

00:59:11behind you, in our camera

00:59:13view of where you are, is your book

00:59:15Go Back to Where You Came From.

00:59:17Would you like to apologise for your

00:59:19smear of an American

00:59:21citizen? It was

00:59:23factual. He

00:59:25is a South African American immigrant,

00:59:27and I think it's interesting that

00:59:29you accept he's an American

00:59:31citizen, do you? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:59:33If you keep calling him South African

00:59:35immigrant, as if somehow that's a

00:59:37stick to beat him with. I'm a proud

00:59:39son of immigrants, but I was making a point.

00:59:41You don't want him to go back to South Africa.

00:59:43Republicans blame immigrants

00:59:45for taking away their jobs. Republicans

00:59:47blame immigrants for

00:59:49taking away social security benefits.

00:59:51But right now, you're perfectly fine with an American

00:59:53citizen, who, by the way, is

00:59:55originally from South Africa, coming in,

00:59:57getting elected, firing people,

00:59:59firing federal workers.

01:00:01You seem very hostile about

01:00:03somebody coming from South Africa to

01:00:05become one of

01:00:07America's most successful ever business

01:00:09people, employing

01:00:11hundreds of thousands of Americans.

01:00:13They're poisoning the blood. That's Donald Trump.

01:00:15That's the guy who said that immigrants are poisoning the blood.

01:00:17Your rhetoric is sounding very, well, if I may

01:00:19say so, I mean, you're making

01:00:21Trump look like a choir boy. If my rhetoric is sounding like that,

01:00:23I should be in the Trump administration.

01:00:25You want the viewers to keep

01:00:27thinking of him as a South African immigrant,

01:00:29as if somehow that's a slur. I'm just curious.

01:00:31The bigger problem here is that it's really hard to fire

01:00:33federal workers. I can fire my workers in the

01:00:35legislative branch. They're technically federal workers. I can fire them

01:00:37right now. They can't do that in a lot of

01:00:39these agencies.

01:00:41In Britain, for instance, you have the same exact

01:00:43problem, if not worse. It's a real

01:00:45problem. Probably takes legislative

01:00:47solutions. I'm glad this

01:00:49administration is doing it, and

01:00:51it's a sort of shock-and-awe campaign

01:00:53because it needs to go to the courts,

01:00:55and we need to figure out what we can do.

01:00:57There's a lot of people

01:00:59that don't have very productive jobs

01:01:01in the federal government. That cannot be a shock

01:01:03to anybody. I don't mind a little bit

01:01:05of shock-and-awe with some speed bumps along the way,

01:01:07and then a scalpel at the end

01:01:09actually solves it.

01:01:11I agree.

01:01:13Hang on.

01:01:15I don't want to give you another chance

01:01:17to say he's a South African immigrant.

01:01:19I just want to play a clip

01:01:21from Jon Stewart, who I thought

01:01:23said something really interesting, given his

01:01:25liberal bent, obviously.

01:01:27He was talking about the way his liberal

01:01:29friends talk about Trump

01:01:31and the use of the F-word.

01:01:33Take a look.

01:01:35I think if you cry fascism

01:01:37at every administrative

01:01:39overreach, you will find yourself

01:01:41out of fascism bullets.

01:01:43There's Jon Stewart, Rod,

01:01:45basically saying what I've been saying for a long time,

01:01:47which is if you keep calling everyone

01:01:49Trump, including Trump, a bunch of fascists,

01:01:51a bunch of Nazis, whatever you want to call them,

01:01:53because you're massively

01:01:55over-egging the souffle

01:01:57of your insult, actually

01:01:59it doesn't work. In fact, it has the opposite

01:02:01effect, as we've seen. Trump got re-elected

01:02:03this time with a massive, massive

01:02:05majority.

01:02:07Well, I know

01:02:09something about being lied about, and I would say to your

01:02:11guest, the anti-Trump guy, that he

01:02:13should take a look at the facts on my case.

01:02:15July of 2015, that so-called

01:02:17sale of the Senate seat was reversed by

01:02:19the appellate court. It was never a crime. They called it nothing

01:02:21more than routine political log-rolling.

01:02:23Having gotten that out of the way,

01:02:25no, I think that's exactly what happened. I think

01:02:27the American people, to quote Bill Clinton,

01:02:29almost always get it right, and

01:02:31they got it right, this election, because they're

01:02:33sick and tired of being lied to. They no longer believe

01:02:35the information that they're getting from these people

01:02:37who speak in hyperbole,

01:02:39rather than actually give reasoned

01:02:41arguments why their position may or may not be

01:02:43right. The American people don't trust

01:02:45the media anymore. They've never trusted

01:02:47politicians, understandably so.

01:02:49They've lost trust and faith in a lot of

01:02:51the institutions, including the court system and

01:02:53the Department of Justice. Look what the court system

01:02:55did to Donald Trump in this last election.

01:02:57No doubt in my mind, those are Democratic

01:02:59prosecutors and Democratic

01:03:01before Democratic judges and Democratic jurisdictions

01:03:03prosecuting someone for

01:03:05non-crimes in a political campaign.

01:03:07It's so obvious.

01:03:09What Jon Stewart has to say about

01:03:11the overplaying of their hand and

01:03:13the hyperbole. People are smart.

01:03:15They get it, and they saw through the baloney, and

01:03:17it's among the reasons why President Trump won

01:03:19by as big of a margin that he won by.

01:03:21Yeah, and Glenn, I think it's quite refreshing

01:03:23to see leading liberals

01:03:25like Jon Stewart. We had George Clooney

01:03:27as well, separately, saying he wishes

01:03:29Trump success, which is

01:03:31what every American should do.

01:03:33They should say, look, whoever wins,

01:03:35we want the President to be successful, because then we

01:03:37all win. But what did you make,

01:03:39just quickly, we're running out of time, but what did you make

01:03:41of what Jon Stewart said there?

01:03:43Yeah, I think the reason why it didn't

01:03:45work, even though the entire media united

01:03:47with the Democratic Party to say it, was because people

01:03:49watched with their own eyes. Trump was President for

01:03:51four years. He didn't look or act like a Nazi.

01:03:53I think some of the most repressive things

01:03:55were trying to put Trump in prison

01:03:57to prevent him from winning the election.

01:03:59That's a deviation from American tradition.

01:04:01And then directing and coercing

01:04:03big tech companies to censor

01:04:05dissent online.

01:04:07These are incredibly anti-American things.

01:04:09Not by Trump, but by the Democratic Party.

01:04:11People just got sick of the rhetoric, because

01:04:13they didn't align with what they were observing

01:04:15on their own.

01:04:17You've used the F word quite liberally

01:04:19in your time. What do you think of what Jon

01:04:21Stewart said?

01:04:23I'm just going to quote Donald Trump. I know we're running out of time.

01:04:25Here's Donald Trump, February 15th.

01:04:27He who saves his country does not

01:04:29violate any law. I'm going to quote Trump again.

01:04:31I will terminate the Constitution.

01:04:33I will quote Donald Trump one more time.

01:04:35I want to be dictator for a day, and because

01:04:37Glenn barred Nazis, my final

01:04:39quote, this is Donald Trump right before the

01:04:41election. He quoted Hitler. He's going to

01:04:43go after the quote, enemy from within.

01:04:45And he's the only president, Republican or Democrat,

01:04:47who has threatened to unleash the

01:04:49military and National Guard on

01:04:51his critics.

01:04:53Dan, your final response.

01:04:55Actions speak a lot louder than words.

01:04:57We have the same

01:04:59hyperbole or

01:05:01I guess hyperventilating when

01:05:03Trump was first elected. Now we have

01:05:05four years to look at, and those four years

01:05:07were pretty good. There was no

01:05:09fascistic dictators.

01:05:11Now again, Glenn had pointed out

01:05:13some key examples of the left being

01:05:15fascistic, and I could keep

01:05:17going on that list, by the way.

01:05:19They have far more fascistic

01:05:21tendencies as far as censoring speech,

01:05:23demanding that you be silenced,

01:05:25demanding that you be deplatformed.

01:05:27These are fascistic tendencies.

01:05:29Donald Trump is not going to send the National Guard

01:05:31in on his own people.

01:05:33I don't know where that came

01:05:35from.

01:05:37You can over-interpret a lot of those tweets

01:05:39however you want. You can ask him about it.

01:05:41I'm not his spokesperson. I can't explain each one.

01:05:43But I know how he governs. And the way he

01:05:45governs tends to be pretty decent for America.

01:05:47And I think I would leave it there.

01:05:49He's part of an insurrectionist,

01:05:51including people who attack cops.

01:05:53Gentlemen, we're going to leave it there.

01:05:55But thank you all very much. Very interesting debate. I appreciate it.

01:05:59Peter Morgan on Censored is proudly independent.

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