Congress leader Shashi Tharoor posted a selfie with Union Commerce and Industry Minister Piyush Goyal and the UK's Secretary of State for Business and Trade Jonathan Reynolds on Tuesday, amid rumours of souring of ties with the party and fuelled a buzz over his future.
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00:00All-out Preeti Zinta vs Kerala Congress war.
00:17Preeti Zinta fact-checks Kerala Congress.
00:27Tharoor sidelined in Congress, BJP mocks.
00:37Earlier praised Prime Minister now shares selfie with Union Minister.
00:47Shashi Tharoor in Congress exit mode.
00:52Shashi Tharoor in Congress exit mode.
01:22Delhi government tables audit report on liquor gate scam.
01:29Claims excise contracts led to Rs 2,000 crore in revenue loss under former CM Kejriwal.
01:36Atishi hits back, liquor was smuggled from UP and Haryana between 2017 and 2021.
01:44Damning revelations in Delhi audit findings.
01:48Rs 37 crore GST refunds, no verification.
01:5221,500 old age pensions given flouting guidelines.
01:58Massive fraud in student loan disbursal as well.
02:01Our lead story today, actor Preeti Zinta vs Kerala Congress.
02:08Actress fact-checks Kerala Congress.
02:12Actor got Rs 18 crore loan mafi courtesy BJP.
02:19That's why she's praising the Prime Minister.
02:24Life imprisonment for ex-Congress MP Sajjan Kumar in 1984 Sikh riots case.
02:30Ex-Congress MP gets life term for killing a father-son pair.
02:341984 riots. Survivors protest if Delhi courts seek the death sentence.
02:38Life imprisonment 40 years after the riots.
02:57Lokayukta probe that gave clean shit to Sidharmaya under fire.
03:01Lokayukta pins blame on Muda Commissioner.
03:04Asks 30 arbitrary questions to CM Sidharamaya.
03:07No questions asked on ED findings.
03:18A high profile celebrity flashpoint between the country's biggest opposition party, the Congress
03:24and actor Preeti Zinta exploded into an ugly war of words today
03:30after the Congress party appeared to attack Preeti Zinta and her integrity.
03:38Preeti Zinta has shot back at the Congress after the party alleged that Preeti
03:43had given up her social media accounts to the BJP in return for favours.
03:50The Kerala Congress claimed that the actress got an 18 crore rupee loan written off courtesy the BJP
03:58and they were quoting from some media article.
04:01Well hitting back, Preeti Zinta dismissed the allegations and called out the grand old party
04:06for spreading what she called fake news. Take a look.
04:15War breaks out between Preeti Zinta and Congress.
04:19The Bollywood actor blasts Kerala Congress for promoting fake news targeting her.
04:24Hitting out at the grand old party's Kerala wing on X, Preeti Zinta dismissed social media chatter
04:30that she had a loan waived by a co-operative bank in return for favours to the BJP as vile gossip.
04:37The Kerala Congress had alleged that the Bollywood actress had given her social media accounts to the BJP
04:43and got 18 crore loan written off by the New India Co-operative Bank.
04:49Preeti Zinta in a strongly worded statement said that she operates her own social media account
04:55and the Congress should be ashamed for spreading fake news.
04:59Responding to Preeti Zinta's statement, the Kerala Congress asked her to prove her innocence.
05:04Citing a media report, Kerala Congress claimed that Preeti's name had come up in a corruption report of the bank.
05:12This comes after Preeti Zinta on social media said that people need to relax
05:17and stop calling each other ant-bhakts for appreciating the Prime Minister.
05:22With Shivimol KG, Bureau Report, India Today.
05:47Prime Minister Modi following his visit to the United States, Tharoor shared a selfie today
05:53with Union Minister Piyush Goyal that has now led to even bigger rumours of Shashi Tharoor's rift
05:59with the Gandhi family and the leadership of the Congress.
06:02The BJP meanwhile has mocked the Congress party, the Congress MP Shashi Tharoor
06:08and his praise for the Modi government over a trade deal with the UK
06:12and a selfie with Union Minister Piyush Goyal has once again brought into focus
06:16what people see as some kind of a souring of ties within the party.
06:21There's been a lot of buzz over how this has been precipitated.
06:25Does Tharoor want to be the chief ministerial face of the Congress party
06:29going into the Kerala elections scheduled for the middle of next year?
06:34Well, Tharoor's recent praise for the Congress's political rivals
06:38has clearly not gone down well with the Congress leadership
06:42that brooks no such balance in commentary.
06:45He also appeared to have ruffled feathers of the Congress in Kerala
06:49by highlighting the absence of a leader in the unit.
06:53The remark comes a year ahead of the Kerala elections like I said
06:56and the knives are out for Shashi Tharoor within the Congress party.
07:01The BJP meanwhile like I said is mocking the Congress party
07:05and having a jolly laugh at this latest eruption
07:10in a party that seems to lurch from one crisis to the other.
07:15First, let's listen in to what Shashi Tharoor said about Prime Minister Modi.
07:20This was the beginning of this entire headline.
07:24So far I must say that what we've seen from the press statements
07:28by both the Prime Minister and by President Trump are very encouraging
07:32because it looks like some of the big concerns we all had have been addressed.
07:36For example on the question of trade and tariffs.
07:39They've decided to sit down together and do a serious negotiation
07:43that will conclude by the fall which is the autumn, September, October of this year.
07:47I think that's a very good outcome because otherwise the fear was
07:51there might be some hasty decisions made in Washington
07:54which would have affected our exports.
07:56This way there is time to discuss and negotiate. I welcome that.
08:00I'm very happy to have on the show to talk about this in just a little bit of detail.
08:04Kapil Komirendi is an author, commentator and columnist.
08:08And the reason why Kapil happens to be one of my favorite commentators
08:13is that he is a strident critic of Modi.
08:17He's written a book called The Malevolent Republic as well.
08:20But he also calls a spade a spade when it comes to the Congress party.
08:25And that's the reason why unlike so many other political commentators out there
08:29you can't put Kapil in one camp or the other.
08:32Kapil, good to see you. Thank you very much for being with me.
08:35I'd like to kick this off by quoting one of your tweets on this topic
08:39and Kapil on Shashi Tharoor and his supposedly souring relations
08:44with the leadership of the Congress party.
08:46Kapil says, and I quote,
08:48retire as youngest second-in-command of the UN,
08:51reject cushy sinecures with seven-figure fees,
08:55win four Lok Sabha elections from a communist citadel
08:58and then rather than respect and responsibility
09:01receive scorn from a deadbeat dynast whose career is a living mockery of merit.
09:08I'll let you explain that, Kapil.
09:11What do you think I was speaking about when I said deadbeat dynast?
09:16So we have a situation in which one of the greatest assets of a political party
09:22that is decaying is unhappy and wants to leave.
09:27I don't know if he wants to leave but he's pretty unhappy
09:29and the media reports seem to suggest he said he has options.
09:34Why has it come to this?
09:36Why is it that the Congress party cannot retain a figure like Shashi Tharoor
09:40within its fold, somebody who's completely committed to its ideology
09:44and somebody who really is a champion of the original vision of the Congress party
09:48which is a plural secular democratic India.
09:51And that is because Congress party has ceased to be,
09:55it ceased to be that long time ago but now under Prime Minister Modi
09:58it's become really a cult, a family worshipping cult
10:02in which anyone who challenges the family or is seen to be a threat to the heir apparent
10:08is put in his or her place.
10:11Shashi Tharoor ran a leadership campaign,
10:14he sought the permission of Sonia Gandhi before he announced his candidacy
10:18and he wanted to be a unifying candidate.
10:20Remember Shiv, he was forged at the United Nations
10:24where conciliation is the guarantee.
10:27You just showed a picture of him with a minister in the BJP
10:30and that's his style of politics, to take everyone along,
10:34to arrive at an inclusive position.
10:37And what Congress wants to do is oppose the government at every juncture
10:41even if it means alienating voters.
10:44And when Shashi floated his leadership campaign,
10:47he was sabotaged in a brutal way.
10:50It was a farce from the beginning.
10:53And having the temerity to actually,
10:57it's because Shashi was in the race that the race was democratic.
11:00They wanted him to withdraw and they wanted to crown the surrogate of Gandhi family.
11:06And because Shashi continued, he pressed on with the campaign,
11:10they tried to sabotage his Lok Sabha election.
11:13And I was in Kerala, I spoke to young people there.
11:16And the Congress machinery, under the instructions of the High Command,
11:21I understand, was attempting to sabotage Shashi's re-election chances.
11:25He nonetheless won the election, came back to Delhi,
11:28and he was again sidelined.
11:30He's an eloquent speaker and quite a few people have said,
11:34even those who felt that he would never be the president,
11:36felt that he should be the leader of opposition.
11:38He was denied that the last time.
11:41Again, he was denied this because Rahul Gandhi took that job.
11:44But he was thinking he's not being allowed to speak.
11:48He's not being allowed to play a part, a constructive part.
11:51And Shiv, you must have followed the things that have been said about him.
11:55The amount of insults the man has absorbed.
11:57He was called a donkey.
11:59He was called a guest artist.
12:01What has he done to merit that kind of contumely?
12:05Except winning, except making Congress.
12:08He enhances the Congress party.
12:10He augments the Congress party by being a part of it.
12:13Congress is a dying bram and it needs Shashi Tharoor.
12:15And I'd have thought that a party that is interested in gaining power
12:18would hold on to him.
12:20But the Congress wants to push him out because Congress is not a political party
12:23that exists to win elections.
12:27It's a dynasty-worshipping cult.
12:30And it exists to venerate one family, sadly.
12:33In your view, Kapil, I take what you've just said.
12:37I take your point.
12:38In your view, do you think, you know,
12:40assuming that Shashi Tharoor is in fact being sidelined
12:44and all indications are that he is or at least he isn't being spoken to
12:48or this issue has been mishandled to such an extent
12:52that it's spilt out into the public.
12:54In your view, Kapil, do you think this is
12:59either punishment for having the temerity to actually
13:04fight that presidential election within the Congress party
13:07or is this just containing Shashi Tharoor
13:10in order to protect you-know-who within the party?
13:14Yeah, it's a bit of both.
13:16The first part, Shashi Tharoor wasn't allowed to rise
13:19because they wanted to protect the heir apparent, the princeling.
13:24But now that Shashi nonetheless pressed on
13:27and in spite of the fact that he was given, you know,
13:30voting lists without the names of voters within the Congress party,
13:33he managed to get the largest number of votes for any opponent
13:36in a democratic contest in Congress's history.
13:39That shows that if it had been a genuinely democratic election,
13:43he might very well have won.
13:45And he is an existential threat.
13:47His popularity is a threat.
13:48He's a man who, quote-unquote,
13:50needs no introduction within the party.
13:52And he's won every single election.
13:55You can't say the same about Rahul Gandhi.
13:58He had to carpet-bag his way into parliament from Kerala
14:02because he was defeated in UP.
14:04So he's being punished for that,
14:06but he's also being put in a position where they don't want to push him out.
14:10They want to make it so difficult for him.
14:12They want to make it so intractable for him
14:14that he lives with the leaves of his own volition.
14:16Then they can say that, you know, anyone who doesn't venerate,
14:20who doesn't exhaust the Gandhis,
14:22is automatically branded a fascist.
14:24You know, if you live in a democratic setup,
14:26you simply cannot have a democratic setup
14:29where you're not on occasion in agreement with the government.
14:32You will almost certainly agree with the government in some areas.
14:37And when you do, it's better to say that.
14:39And we've arrived at a situation where a party
14:42that claims to be the saviour of Indian democracy
14:46from this fascist government, as they call it,
14:49is telling us that, you know, anyone who disagrees
14:53with the owners of that party, with the proprietors of that party,
14:56prove that their loyalty is with those who want to destroy India's democracy.
15:01The great irony, of course,
15:03is that they themselves are antithetical to democracy.
15:06You know, Congress is our heritage.
15:09It is a party that incubated Indian democracy.
15:12It's the party that negotiated India's independence.
15:16It was the engine of India's freedom movement.
15:18Its degeneration into a chattel of one family
15:23should appall all of us, regardless of where we stand,
15:26which political party we support.
15:28Rahul Gandhi often says that, you know, that's how India is.
15:31It's not, actually.
15:32Congress pioneered this style of introducing dynasty rule.
15:37Before Congress did this,
15:39no political party in India was a family-run enterprise.
15:42Congress normalised it.
15:43Because Congress was this great, venerated political party,
15:46once Congress did it, it seemed okay for others to do it.
15:49So Congress has a special responsibility to purge itself of this sickness.
15:54And I just want to add one more thing,
15:56which is that Shashi Tharoor has lived a life of, you know,
16:00he's absorbed so many insults,
16:02and he's continued to remain within the party.
16:05And I was reading a piece, I think it was in your magazine,
16:07where Congress persons quoted anonymously stated that, you know,
16:11he's just not in touch with the party,
16:14as if he's some sort of, despite being in the party for so long,
16:16he's an outsider.
16:18I just want to say that in Telangana,
16:20where Congress just won an election last year,
16:22they brought in as a chief minister,
16:25a man who's an interloper, who until 2017 was not even a member of it.
16:29And that upset quite a few people.
16:31And a third party that wants to achieve what it calls, you know,
16:34social parity or deliver social justice,
16:36it appointed a member of the upper caste community,
16:41a forward caste community,
16:42who is on record saying fairly chauvinistic things about his community,
16:46that he's a, he's a, he's part of this ready community.
16:49And he said, we were born to rule, that sort of thing.
16:52And this is a man who called Shashi Tharoor a redonkian,
16:54escaped any punishment, any disciplinary action.
16:57And that's because, you know,
16:59he spoke the right things about, about, about the prince.
17:03Interesting. Kapil, I appreciate your words,
17:06and thank you for taking the time out at short notice for being on the show.
17:09I look forward to reading more of your writing on this topic.
17:12I know you will be. Thanks again.
17:14See you again on the show soon, Kapil. Thank you very much.
17:16Now, remember, one of the things that Kapil said is so true,
17:20that Shashi Tharoor has been in the Congress for a very long time,
17:25but he still feels like an outsider.
17:27He clearly hasn't been utilized enough, even though he's a four-time MP.
17:31But the obvious question now is what next for Shashi Tharoor?
17:36Does he really have options, or does this elite leader,
17:40is he only indulging in some muscle flexing and pressure tactics
17:46over what his political future within the Congress is really going to be?
17:51I can think of no two people better to comment on this
17:54than Swati Chaturvedi, author and columnist,
17:56and Rashid Kidwai, author and political commentator,
17:59and a person who's written more about the Congress
18:02than perhaps anyone in the country right now.
18:04Swati, I should tell our viewers first off,
18:06is actually the person who broke this entire hangama
18:11over Tharoor being in exit mode.
18:14You know, most people are saying podcast on the Indian Express.
18:17It was actually Swati's tweet that set the cat among the pigeons
18:21and, you know, set newsrooms alight late in the evening
18:25when it was suggested that Shashi Tharoor is about to drop some kind of a nuclear bomb.
18:30Swati, welcome.
18:32First to you, what is going on?
18:34What is Shashi Tharoor trying to do here?
18:37Is he really in, you know, what we TV-walas call exit mode,
18:41or is this just pressure tactics?
18:43Well, Shiv, first, thank you, as usual, for being scrupulously professional
18:47and giving me credit.
18:49Actually, the Indian Express podcast was apparently recorded 10 days ago,
18:53and I've heard from my sources, and I also got a quote from Shashi directly,
18:58about the fact that he's clearly extremely unhappy,
19:01and, you know, the kind of pressure that's being put on him.
19:04Now, what you said and I heard, Kapil, earlier, I think it's a bit of both.
19:08I mean, we are looking at the Kerala elections,
19:10which, by the way, the Congress has now lost for the last two terms,
19:13which is one ahead of, earlier, the Congress party and its palace court
19:17used to say if Rahul Gandhi contests from Kerala,
19:20you know, that'll ensure a sweep of the party in Kerala.
19:23Well, he did from Wayanad. The party didn't sweep.
19:25The party lost to the left.
19:27So if Shashi Tharoor is positioning himself as a CM face,
19:30he has every right to, because he's won his election
19:32from a very tough constituency four times.
19:34He's a four-time member of the Lok Sabha,
19:36and he's not really one of those elitist leaders
19:38who doesn't ever go to the constituency.
19:40He's there every weekend. He's 24-7 into politics.
19:42For some bizarre reason, the Congress party has decided
19:45that Shashi Tharoor is a threat.
19:47Now, they didn't let him speak in the budget session.
19:49I mean, I can't think, there are very few leaders left in the Congress.
19:52Both of us know how Rahul Gandhi has presided over a talent drain
19:57of a magnitude not seen in Indian politics.
19:59True.
20:00We start from Himanta Biswasarma, we go to Jyotraditya Sindhiya,
20:03we go to Jiten Prasada, we go to Milind Deora.
20:06The list is endless.
20:08People are now fleeing the Congress party
20:10and joining tiny regional parties which have literally no future.
20:13Yeah.
20:14So you can imagine what the state of the politics in the Congress is.
20:16So Shashi Tharoor, if he says that, you know,
20:18I want to be considered to be the CM face for Kerala,
20:22I don't think is overambition.
20:24He's really worked really hard for the job.
20:26Yeah, okay.
20:27Why the Congress perceives him as a threat,
20:29why the Congress is so intolerant of its own talented leaders
20:32is something which is a befuddling mystery
20:35because you have KC Venugopal, who is this great big leader
20:39who is unsurpassed in the Congress,
20:41who probably can't even win a Zillai election, you know.
20:43I mean, I'd love Rahul Gandhi to tell the country
20:46which constituency does KC Venugopal cater to.
20:49But KC Venugopal is now in the Lok Sabha, Swati.
20:52Well, you know, he is in the Lok Sabha,
20:54but you know, he's the organizational secretary.
20:57Understood. Yeah, point taken.
20:59One last thing.
21:01Rahul Gandhi has presided over the Congress losing 88 elections
21:05and three general elections on the trot.
21:08What record is this?
21:10Rashid, how is the Congress looking at this situation?
21:13I mean, there's been no official word.
21:15They refuse to participate in debates.
21:17I am anyway still blacklisted by the Congress Party,
21:19so they don't come to my debates anyway.
21:21But, you know, what are the leaders of the Congress
21:23doing about this whole affair, Tharoor?
21:27Yeah, so I think, Shiv, the biggest problem is lack of communication.
21:31I think the entire thing is not out of hand.
21:33On a Friday, there is a meeting of Kerala MPs,
21:35and where, as you rightly pointed out,
21:38KC Venugopal is himself a member of Parliament,
21:40so is Priyanka Gandhi and Shashi Tharoor,
21:42so there will be some, you know, sparks may fly.
21:45I don't see, you know, Shashi Tharoor being on the exit mode.
21:48Shashi Tharoor wants an answer to a issue
21:52which is very important, and I think
21:54it deals with a whole gambit of, actually, subjects.
21:57He sought a meeting with Rahul Gandhi,
21:59and whatever, you know, transpired between the two,
22:02the privileged information was leaked in a section of,
22:05you know, media, social media in Kerala.
22:08Now, Rahul Gandhi has not spoken,
22:10so Shashi Tharoor has not spoken.
22:12He's not spoken, you know, to me and to several others
22:14who are in touch with him,
22:16and so how has that information, you know, come out?
22:18Yeah.
22:19So was it KC Venugopal?
22:21Because he is seen as a friend of the peace.
22:23Now, there is no answer from the Congress communication department,
22:26spokesperson, Rahul Gandhi, Mallika Arjun Khadge, all these things.
22:30So I think before, you know, making any move, next move,
22:34Tharoor would wait for, you know, the Congress response.
22:37You see, to say that, and I was, you know,
22:40hearing Kapil very attentively,
22:42many of the, it's Kapil's own assessment,
22:44and I think, you know, in Kerala,
22:47you know, the most Shashi Tharoor was Sonia Gandhi's,
22:50you know, find after he lost the UN election.
22:52When he entered politics, you know, in Kerala,
22:54there was a lot of hostility was there,
22:56and some of the people who were opposing him,
22:58and they are also now in BJP, like Tom Verducken and others.
23:01So Sonia Gandhi gave him ticket from that,
23:03because, you know, there was a lot of party hierarchy,
23:06perceived notions of hierarchy.
23:08He was given ticket, he was made minister in Manmohan Singh government.
23:11So it's not that he's not had to contest it,
23:14to be a chief ministerial face,
23:16it requires any political party,
23:18it requires a lot of grit,
23:20and I think when you say that, you know,
23:22about becoming leader of opposition,
23:24he should have thrown a challenge,
23:26he should have forced a contest on CBP election.
23:28I remember telling him that in 2019 also,
23:30for some reason Mr. Tharoor has not contested CBP election.
23:34So if he wants to become, you know,
23:36chief minister, he can announce his candidature,
23:38he can fight SMB election,
23:40he can get, see there is a survey supposedly had been done,
23:43where it's saying 48% of people,
23:45you know, want Shashi Tharoor as, you know,
23:47next chief minister of Kerala.
23:49We have seen this kind of surveys,
23:52several surveys, Arvind Kejriwal had also got it done.
23:55But, you know, sometime by the time results are held,
23:57it's a different thing.
23:59It's an evolving situation.
24:01Last thing I would say, let's not jump to any conclusion.
24:03Okay, okay, very interesting.
24:05I'm out of time, but I wanted to squeeze in quick 20 seconds to Swati.
24:08Swati, Rashid says, you know, this issue is still resolvable.
24:11You know, there's going to be a meeting on Friday.
24:14Do you think the, you know, all the buzz around it
24:17has already made it kind of ugly?
24:20Or do you think there is going to be a possible fix here?
24:24I'll take only 20 seconds.
24:26The meeting that Shashi Tharoor had with Rahul Gandhi,
24:28he thought Rahul Gandhi was polite, courteous, but non-receptive.
24:31Non-receptive in the Congress, Rahul Gandhi is non-receptive.
24:34Nobody's going to really hear you.
24:36The second of all, I think at this point,
24:38Shashi Tharoor was in the Congress only to spite leaders.
24:40You know, all the Kerala Congress leaders against him.
24:42He's kind of, you know, staying in there,
24:44just to kind of rub their noses into it.
24:46Because we saw today also, he's taken a very defiant optic route,
24:50where he's put out his picture with Piyush Goyal.
24:52So I think that's pretty indicative of what's happening.
24:55Okay, so there's muscle flexing, there's pressure tactics,
24:58but also it looks like he doesn't want to overtly blow this up.
25:02I agree with Swati, that picture was definitely, you know,
25:05a bit of needling at a time when there's already so much being said
25:09about the complexion of that relationship and where it's actually headed.
25:13We'll keep a very close watch on it, Rashid and Swati.
25:16Thank you so much for being with me here on Five Life.