Gary Neville is joined by Sir Jim Ratcliffe on The Overlap, brought to you by Sky Bet. They discuss Manchester United’s season so far, new manager Ruben Amorim, the club’s finances, and what’s next for United.
Ratcliffe reflects on his first year at United, including the controversial decision to replace Erik ten Hag with Ruben Amorim, despite an FA Cup triumph. He also tackles the club’s financial struggles, including a bloated wage bill, and the steps being taken to bring United back to the top.
The conversation also lifts the lid on Dan Ashworth’s departure, what really happened behind the scenes, and how it impacted United’s plans heading into a crucial second half of the Premier League season.
Looking ahead, Gary and Sir Jim discuss the future of Old Trafford, the club’s long-term vision, and whether United fans can find reasons for optimism after a below-par campaign.
Don’t miss this one—hit like, share your thoughts in the comments, and subscribe to stay updated with every episode!
0:00 Introduction and Initial Thoughts
01:13 Facing Scrutiny and Criticism
02:17 Understanding Fan Frustration
02:52 Evaluating Team Performance
03:57 Challenges and Progress
05:13 Recruitment and Management Decisions
11:06 Financial Realities and Tough Decisions
17:16 Addressing Club's Financial Crisis
21:43 Balancing Finances and Team Success
22:29 Management and Financial Restructuring
23:19 Recruitment and Future Prospects
24:13 Challenges with the Glazer Family
25:22 Addressing Debt and Financial Mismanagement
26:54 Fan Discontent and Ticket Pricing
38:39 Vision for the Future: Stadium and Training Facilities
43:08 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
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Ratcliffe reflects on his first year at United, including the controversial decision to replace Erik ten Hag with Ruben Amorim, despite an FA Cup triumph. He also tackles the club’s financial struggles, including a bloated wage bill, and the steps being taken to bring United back to the top.
The conversation also lifts the lid on Dan Ashworth’s departure, what really happened behind the scenes, and how it impacted United’s plans heading into a crucial second half of the Premier League season.
Looking ahead, Gary and Sir Jim discuss the future of Old Trafford, the club’s long-term vision, and whether United fans can find reasons for optimism after a below-par campaign.
Don’t miss this one—hit like, share your thoughts in the comments, and subscribe to stay updated with every episode!
0:00 Introduction and Initial Thoughts
01:13 Facing Scrutiny and Criticism
02:17 Understanding Fan Frustration
02:52 Evaluating Team Performance
03:57 Challenges and Progress
05:13 Recruitment and Management Decisions
11:06 Financial Realities and Tough Decisions
17:16 Addressing Club's Financial Crisis
21:43 Balancing Finances and Team Success
22:29 Management and Financial Restructuring
23:19 Recruitment and Future Prospects
24:13 Challenges with the Glazer Family
25:22 Addressing Debt and Financial Mismanagement
26:54 Fan Discontent and Ticket Pricing
38:39 Vision for the Future: Stadium and Training Facilities
43:08 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
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FunTranscript
00:00Right, let's do it. Let's go for it.
00:09So, I'm going to start with the end and ask you to sum up your first 12 months in charge at United.
00:15Review yourself.
00:16Right, well, I think in a funny sort of way, it's gone as we anticipated it would.
00:23We didn't think the first year was going to be easy because we had difficult things to do.
00:26But I think, you know, the club is bigger than, until you actually arrive in the club, it's bigger than you think, you know.
00:35And the scrutiny is bigger than you anticipate because you get your school reports at the end of every day instead of at the end of every term.
00:45I used to get clipped round here once every term by my mother, but now I get clipped round here every day by the press, you know.
00:52So those things are sort of slightly, I suppose, unanticipated or underestimated.
00:59But I think broadly where we are, which I know is a difficult place and people are not very happy about it at the moment, which is why I'm quite unpopular,
01:06it is where I didn't expect in a year of change that we'd be winning the Premier League, honestly.
01:13Are you finding it hard, the scrutiny, the attention, the criticism?
01:19Well, I used to enjoy picking a newspaper up in the morning, having a cup of coffee and a croissant, you know, which is not quite so enjoyable anymore.
01:29But I think the way, I mean, we've all got our sensitivities and it isn't pleasant to read some of the press coverage.
01:39But the way I get through it is, you know, I believe what we're doing is the right thing.
01:47I believe what we're doing has to be done to get United back to where United should be, which is the winning silverware and winning trophies and things like that.
01:55And we have to go through this. I mean, if you don't like where United have been for the last 12 seasons since Sir Alex retired,
02:04then I think, ergo, you have to accept there has to be a period of change, otherwise it's just going to continue.
02:10And change is always uncomfortable and unpleasant at times, and that's sort of where we are at the moment, unfortunately.
02:17Do you understand why the fans are angry? Obviously, yesterday they protested at the Arsenal match. Do you understand where it comes from?
02:23Yeah, I think, yeah. Well, I'm a fan as well, remember, so, you know, fans are not going to be happy languishing down in the bottom half of the table.
02:33And, yeah, I get that and I sympathise, but I didn't think this year was going to be a walk in the park, you know, it was always going to be difficult.
02:43And if you look at the squad that Ruben's got available, he's only got half a squad, honestly.
02:50You just said that you're a fan. As a fan, not as an owner, when you go and watch the games, and you have been watching the last six or seven months, what do you make of the performances?
03:00Well, I think, I mean, I've seen the performances under two, so I don't know whether you're asking me about the previous...
03:07Well, under Eric and under Ruben now.
03:09Yeah, well, obviously under Eric it was erratic, I think is the best word I'd use.
03:13You know, there was some great thought, I mean, when we, obviously, were playing the FA Cup against Man City, you know, they all turned up and they played like they were in a Cup final.
03:20And then at other times, you know, Crystal Palace or whatever, they didn't show up.
03:24Under Ruben, what we've seen, I think, is it was difficult at the beginning, and I sort of get that, but then I think we've seen progress.
03:33And I think some of the players that we bought in the summer, you've seen them settle.
03:39I mean, it's quite tough, isn't it? I mean, you've spent your life playing there, it's not an easy league to play in, and there's a lot of scrutiny.
03:46And it's a tough, I mean, look how Xerxe got knocked about, you know, yesterday in the first half, he really got knocked about, didn't he?
03:52I mean, he wouldn't be used to that playing in the Italian league, so it takes time for players to settle.
03:57But I think, you know, if you look at, I mean, Ruben yesterday against Arsenal, he only had half a squad.
04:05I mean, how many players would most people recognise on the bench yesterday?
04:10I mean, there was hardly a name that you'd recognise.
04:12I mean, the guy that we brought on, Heaven, he was only 18, we only bought him three weeks ago from Arsenal, you know.
04:19And then we had Obi on there, who's only 16, I think, and he's played once for United.
04:24I mean, there was only half of them.
04:26I mean, I think if you look at the top eight most expensive players that we've got in terms of salary, four of them are not available to Ruben.
04:36If you did that with Liverpool or Manchester City, half the cream of your team was gone, you know.
04:43So, I think I've seen progress.
04:48Where have you seen that progress?
04:49We saw a bit of a glimpse of the future, I thought.
04:52Yesterday?
04:53I thought we saw a glimpse of the future, yeah.
04:55What, in the second half, you mean?
04:56In the second half, yeah.
04:57I thought, you know, they were quite cohesive, you could see a bit of a game plan.
05:02And the players played their hearts out for Manchester United, they really did.
05:06And you could see it, couldn't you?
05:07You could see that De Ligt tattle, you could see the tattle that Heaven made.
05:10I mean, it really meant something to them.
05:13So, you think the recruitment from last summer will come good?
05:15Yes.
05:16Yeah, yeah, I do.
05:18But bear in mind, recruitment last summer, we didn't have the luxury of time to prepare for last summer, did we?
05:25Jason had been there three weeks, Omer had been there three days.
05:29We had the problem with the coach, a yes or a no, so we involving the coach and not involving the coach.
05:35Did you involve the coach?
05:36Sorry?
05:37Did you involve the coach?
05:38Yeah, we did, yeah.
05:39So, Eric signed a lot of those players last summer?
05:41No, he didn't, but he was involved in the discussion.
05:43So, he influenced, I mean, at the end of the day, a decision on a new player or a purchase isn't a decision of one person normally, is it?
05:49It's a group of people who influence that decision one way or another.
05:53So, yeah, he did have a voice, which is why there were one or two Dutch players.
05:59Would you have sacked Eric if he'd have found another manager after the FA Cup final success?
06:05Because you were looking around Europe and scouring for a new manager.
06:12It was too early for us to make a big decision in reality and we didn't, we hadn't been together as a team for very long.
06:21If you look at Omar, Jason, myself, Dave, we hadn't been together for very long.
06:26It was just a matter of, you know, weeks and it's quite a big decision, isn't it?
06:30And also, it's quite difficult to, you know, I couldn't, it's quite difficult to extract in that season when we arrived, Eric's performance from the structure around him.
06:47Because obviously the structure around him now is completely different.
06:50So, if I look today, there's a really strong relationship and a really strong support culture for Ruben with Jason.
06:57So, Jason and Ruben talk to each other two or three times a day.
07:00Omar speaks to Ruben every day. Every time I go to the match, I speak to Ruben.
07:04So, you know, there's a support structure there and he's got, you know, he's got his coaches and the physios and the doctor and everything else.
07:10But it was quite difficult to see whether, you know, what environment Eric was operating in.
07:15Was it, in other words, was the erratic performance a function of Eric or was it a function of the organisation?
07:23And we couldn't really get to the bottom of answering that question with sort of certainty, I suppose.
07:30So, we gave Eric the benefit of the doubt.
07:35And you regret that or do you feel...
07:38Yeah, it was the wrong decision. We made the wrong decision. It was an error.
07:42So, yeah, I suppose in that sense, I regret it.
07:44I think there was some extenuating or mitigating circumstances in having made that decision.
07:49But at the end of the day, it was the wrong decision.
07:51So, hands off, you know, mea culpa on that one.
07:55How do you assess Ruben's first four or five months?
07:57It's obviously been tough in terms of results and performances, but how do you assess?
08:02I mean, he's very honest.
08:04Yeah, he is honest and I like that about him.
08:06I think Ruben has done an excellent job.
08:08I really like Ruben and I think in the circumstances in which he...
08:12I mean, he arrived mid-season.
08:14He didn't have time to train his players in the way in which he wants to play.
08:17He inherited a squad which he's had no influence on
08:20and the squad isn't necessarily designed for the way in which he plays football.
08:24And English isn't his natural language and he's never played in the Premier League before
08:30and he's managing the biggest club in the world and it's a tough place.
08:34I mean, Manchester United is a tough place.
08:36And he's young.
08:37And he's a young guy, yeah.
08:38So, I think, you know, if you take all of that into consideration,
08:42I think he's done a remarkably good job.
08:44What parts are you referring to there when you say good job?
08:46Because obviously the results have been poor.
08:48Are you referring to just generally the way in which he carries himself?
08:51Yeah, I think the way...
08:53And I think what he's got out of the players that he's got available,
09:00I think he's done well with.
09:02Do you?
09:03Yeah.
09:06If I look at the salary bill of the squad that's available to him,
09:13that salary bill is not the salary bill of Manchester City or Liverpool.
09:18Do you mean because of the injuries?
09:19It's a fraction of it.
09:20What do you mean? Are you referring to the actual...
09:21If you look at the salary bill of the players that are available to him
09:24that are not injured or not out on loan,
09:27because we've got, you know, we've got Anthony out on loan,
09:30we've got Sancho out on loan,
09:31we've got Rashford out on loan,
09:33we've got Mason Mount who hasn't really played in the last two seasons,
09:36we've got Luke Shaw who hasn't played in the last two seasons.
09:39So if you modify our salary bill for the players that are not available to Ruben,
09:44then our salary bill ranks us about, you know,
09:49mid-league, second half of the table.
09:51We're sort of level with the likes of a Nottingham Forest or Everton,
09:55not a Manchester City.
09:57So that salary bill, if you look at that salary bill,
09:59is probably about £130m.
10:01And we're talking about Liverpool who's got a salary bill of £200m
10:03and Manchester City who's got a salary bill of £300m.
10:05So that's the squad that Ruben's playing with.
10:07So, you know, he's not got the Liverpool squad,
10:11he's not got the Manchester City squad,
10:12he's got the Manchester United squad.
10:13I mean, how many players did you recognise on that bench on Saturday?
10:17You know, they're all 12 kids.
10:18Do you support what he's done with Rashford, with Anthony, with Sancho,
10:23and obviously even with Gannaccio who's in and out of the team at the moment,
10:26he seems to be...
10:27Do you support what he's doing with those players?
10:29Correct, I do.
10:31I think he's doing the right thing with the players.
10:33He has to be in charge of the dressing room.
10:37I mean, you played in the dressing room where the boss was the boss,
10:40wasn't he, at the end of the day?
10:41And he's got a set of principles
10:43and he wants the players to abide by his set of principles,
10:46which is that you have to be totally and utterly committed
10:48to winning the next football match.
10:51That's what he wants.
10:52So if you abide by those principles,
10:55you potentially have a seat in the dressing room.
10:57Obviously, a lot of these players were brought in
10:59before Ruben and yourself got into the club.
11:01Do you feel like you're correcting the mistakes of previous recruitment cycles?
11:06Well, I don't really want to sort of...
11:12We've inherited a situation which we've inherited.
11:17It's mad, isn't it?
11:18Some of the contracts that have been given out...
11:20Yeah, there's some decisions that we clearly would not...
11:25And also, if you look, it's quite interesting,
11:27if you look at the players that we will buy this summer
11:32that we did not buy, in other words, we're paying for,
11:36that's Anthony, we're buying Anthony this summer.
11:39We're buying Sancho this summer.
11:41We're buying Hoyland.
11:42We're buying Casemiro.
11:44We're buying Hanan.
11:45You mean, so they're paying for them?
11:46Yeah, correct.
11:47I mean, the club also...
11:48It's not a light switch.
11:52In your day, if you bought a player, you bought a player,
11:54and that was it, wasn't it?
11:55The club owe nearly £400 million, don't they,
11:57on players that are still in the club?
11:59£390 million, is that right, that number?
12:01Pass, I don't know the exact number.
12:03I know the bill that we will pay this summer is £89 million
12:07for players who have been signed previously.
12:09Previously, £89 million.
12:10So if we buy no players, we write a cheque for £89 million this summer.
12:14I mean, you mentioned Ruben's playing style before.
12:17He has got a rare playing style in terms of the system.
12:20Yeah.
12:21And I suppose I'm asking you the question,
12:23next summer you're going to have to recruit to that specific system,
12:26the wing-backs, the two players that play in behind Oyland
12:29or behind the centre-forward.
12:31Are you unequivocal that you're going to make that step
12:33and back Ruben, and he's going to be here at the start of next season
12:36considering the results that have happened?
12:38Yeah.
12:39I'm unequivocal about that, but bear in mind,
12:41I am backing the management team.
12:44Because at the end of the day, it's Omar, it's Jason,
12:47it's the management team that operate Manchester United.
12:50Who appointed Ruben then?
12:53Who appointed Ruben?
12:55Omar and Jason and me.
12:58Made that decision?
12:59Yeah.
13:00Looking at what happened with Dan,
13:03obviously Dan came into the club.
13:05Yeah.
13:06I mean, I've worked with Dan.
13:08He headed up a transformation at the FA whilst I was there,
13:10and he's done it at other clubs.
13:12What went wrong there?
13:13Because you chased him for eight months.
13:15Correct.
13:16And he's done this type of job before,
13:18transformation, cultural change.
13:20Why did that not work, knowing Dan as I do?
13:23Well, you may know Dan better than I do.
13:26I'm sure you do.
13:28But I don't want to go into the details of it
13:30because I don't think it serves any –
13:32it doesn't serve much purpose.
13:34I mean, at the end of the day, it was chemistry.
13:38Maybe a bit more than chemistry, but let's just say chemistry.
13:41And it didn't work.
13:43With you or with the other management team?
13:47Just chemistry.
13:50And, you know, I think, again,
13:54I know it's a non-popular decision and it's seen as an error,
13:57and it was an error.
13:59But, again, I think slightly in our defence,
14:04we did recognise it as being something that would not work,
14:08and therefore we decided we would make a change.
14:12What would have been far easier because of the scrutiny
14:15that we knew that we would get in the media,
14:17would have been to live with it.
14:19But I wasn't prepared to live with it.
14:21So I think – and that has to be part of our mentality,
14:24even though we're having to make unpopular decisions.
14:27If we think it's the right thing, then we're going to do it.
14:30And you know there's quite a lot of unpopular decisions.
14:32I know, you know, lunches and things like that,
14:37they're unpopular decisions.
14:39Yeah, let's come on to those.
14:41I want to talk to you about those things.
14:43£40,000 was spent to remove Eric and Dan,
14:45which are expensive errors.
14:47Correct.
14:48Yeah, I'm just going to take two or three examples.
14:52£40,000 was taken away from the former Players' Association.
14:55Now that's not the players that played under Sir Alex Ferguson
14:57or even in the last 10 years,
14:59they're players from the 1960s and 70s.
15:01I look at that, and I have a little bit of knowledge of the club,
15:04obviously I haven't been there for 25, 30 years.
15:07I just look at that and I think it's £40,000 from players
15:10who were giving a lot back to the local community,
15:12the obviously big supporters of United.
15:14Why not look at that £40,000
15:16and put Harry Maguire and Bruno in a dinner?
15:19Sell a thousand tickets for £30, £40, £50,
15:22raise the money through a dinner,
15:24maybe do a raffle and auction,
15:25give the ex-players their money,
15:27and do it in a way whereby you're not looking like
15:29it's a cruel decision, which it is.
15:32Why would that not be looked at as a shopping list of things?
15:35Oh, that's got a health warning to it.
15:36They're former players, they're people who do a lot of good.
15:39I'm not talking about the sort of,
15:40this isn't the place, they're my era,
15:41the place in the 1780s.
15:42Why would that decision be made?
15:45Well, nobody suggested that,
15:47because I would have supported that.
15:50But Jim, that alarms me,
15:52because if people aren't suggesting that to you at the club,
15:55then...
15:57I don't think, the people at the club are not,
15:59they're not, you know most of the people at the club,
16:02they're not cruel or heartless people.
16:04But I think...
16:05But it's £40,000.
16:06Yeah, I know, but...
16:09Harry and Bruno can just turn up for a dinner,
16:11raise £50,000, £60,000, £70,000, £100,000 for them.
16:13Why didn't the current players put a grand each in for them?
16:16Things like that, if it came to me,
16:18and I was looking at a decision like that,
16:20and these guys who've been putting so much time into the club
16:22over so many years,
16:24it just looks...
16:25Why can't we reinstate that?
16:27Well, maybe we can.
16:28I don't know.
16:29I can have a look at it.
16:30I'm not aware at that level of...
16:33Honestly, Gary, I'm not aware of that...
16:36Detail.
16:37I'm not aware at that level of detail, to be honest with you.
16:39I think though, you know, if you...
16:42If you just step back just for a second
16:44and look at the bigger...
16:45I mean, you know, the philosophy is
16:46if you look after the pennies,
16:47the pounds look after themselves, right?
16:49So, I don't think we can say,
16:51well, we can overlook the little things
16:54and just attack the big things.
16:56I don't like that because that confuses people
16:59and ultimately people then start to make the wrong decisions
17:02about the big things.
17:03And I think, you know, that philosophy of what's...
17:05And spend the money like it's your own money.
17:07But you're right.
17:08I mean, it does have...
17:10You know, the club has got community responsibilities as well.
17:13And it is a...
17:14It's sort of part of the community.
17:17But if I can say that
17:21Manchester United
17:23has lost money
17:25for the last seven years
17:27and it's something like
17:30in the last four years alone, it's lost...
17:33£330 million.
17:34£330 million.
17:35It's horrific.
17:36It's...
17:37Yeah, that's a third of a billion pounds
17:39in the last four years.
17:40During that period of time,
17:42it's been recruiting lots of new people
17:46on top of a workforce which was already enormous.
17:49So,
17:51you know, we finished up with 1,150 people.
17:55We've increased the cost base of running.
17:57So, if you look at a couple of really simple numbers
17:59in the last seven years
18:01to 2016,
18:03we increased the cost of running the club,
18:05which are the operating costs of running the club.
18:07So, just the people and the fixed costs, if you like.
18:09So, all the costs, excluding the player costs.
18:12We increased the cost by £100 million
18:15in the last, what, seven years, since 16.
18:19And
18:20the player salary bill
18:23increased by
18:25£100 million.
18:26So, that went from 150 to 250.
18:28This went from 170 to 270.
18:31And in that period of time, the top line,
18:33the revenue, increased by only
18:35£100 million.
18:37So, you just finish up with
18:40a situation which is untenable.
18:42It doesn't work.
18:43If you spend...
18:44If every year you spend more money than you earn,
18:47ultimately that's the road to ruin.
18:49And unfortunately,
18:50and it's not
18:52until we mention it a couple of times today,
18:55it's not known,
18:57Manchester United
18:59would have run out of money
19:00at the end of this year.
19:02Christmas, November this year,
19:04the club runs out of cash.
19:06Do you realise how...
19:07That's sort of quite a big...
19:09But do you realise how bad that is
19:11to hear?
19:12I know that's a fact, by the way,
19:13because over the last two or three years,
19:14I think the fans who obviously have got an interest
19:16in the business side of the club have been tracking
19:18the club's desperate situation,
19:19the mismanagement over the last ten years.
19:22This is the richest football club in the world
19:24when it comes to revenue.
19:25Yeah.
19:26But because of...
19:27Top three.
19:28Top three.
19:29Three of us up there.
19:30Top three in the world.
19:32And it's having to cut £40,000 from ex-players
19:35and now removing food
19:38from members of staff in the canteen.
19:41But the alternative isn't very tenable, is it?
19:44Which is the club goes bust at Christmas.
19:46We don't want that.
19:48No, absolutely.
19:50We don't want that.
19:51No, we absolutely don't want that.
19:52But we also have to, I think,
19:53make decisions in light of the impact
19:55that they're going to have.
19:56Because United, as you know,
19:57you're a fan that has a soul, has a heart.
19:59Yeah.
20:00And I think when it comes to food
20:01and Manchester United staff being fed,
20:03the idea of me eating differently
20:05than my compatriots who are in the office,
20:09the kit men, the groundsmen,
20:10the people who, to be fair,
20:11the sort of my friends at the club
20:13because I was in there for 25 years,
20:14I find that difficult from an inequality perspective.
20:17Yeah.
20:18However...
20:20I mean, I get that, Gary,
20:22and I understand that, but...
20:26It's...
20:27You have to deal with...
20:28We can't put our head in the sand.
20:31We have to deal with the problem.
20:33And it's a big problem, not a small problem.
20:36Because the numbers I've given you,
20:37you know, I've just given you,
20:38they're big numbers.
20:39They're not small.
20:40These are not...
20:41They're horrific.
20:42They're not tiny numbers.
20:43And as you say,
20:44this is the biggest club in the world.
20:45And if it just goes on year after year after year...
20:48What happens if you spend more money than you earn
20:51is every year you have to go to the bank
20:53and borrow more money.
20:55I know...
20:56Is that one of the problems?
20:57I know that's how you feel about lunches,
20:59but we have to go to the bank down the road
21:01and we have to borrow the money
21:02to give everybody a free lunch.
21:0495% of people in the UK don't get a free lunch.
21:06I don't get a free lunch.
21:07I've never had a free lunch.
21:08Nobody in the US gets a free lunch.
21:09And the vast majority of people don't get a free lunch.
21:11It's a nice perk if you get one,
21:13but in the modern world,
21:14most people don't get a free lunch.
21:16And at the moment,
21:17Manchester United can't afford to give people free lunches
21:19because they have to go to the bank and borrow it.
21:21And I don't see...
21:22At the end of the day,
21:23it's fans' money, isn't it?
21:24The fans are the guys that are paying
21:27for these free lunches
21:28because they're the guys who buy the tickets,
21:30they're the guys who pay for the TV subscriptions
21:32and they're the guy who buys the shirts.
21:33Those are the three bits of income
21:35that Manchester United have got.
21:37So I sort of think of that money
21:40that we're spending at Manchester United...
21:41It's not my money.
21:42It's the fans' money.
21:43Should I be spending the fans' money on a free lunch?
21:48Or should I be spending the fans' money
21:50on a new player who might win some silverware?
21:53That's how I look at it.
21:54And you may say,
21:55well, that's a bit...
21:57Can we not do both?
21:59No, I think the answer to that is yes, we can.
22:01But we cannot do that today.
22:04You've mentioned...
22:05Because I think otherwise,
22:06you're trying to draw a line, aren't you?
22:07We can have a free lunch and then...
22:09Or maybe that guy can drive an S-Class down to London.
22:14You get all these blurry lines about
22:18what's acceptable,
22:19what's not...
22:20I mean, at the moment,
22:22two of those last seven years,
22:24we've lost £100 million of cash.
22:26I mean, they're big, big numbers,
22:28and we have to stop that.
22:29And we have to get Manchester United...
22:33If you look at the sequence of things
22:35they're trying to do at the club,
22:38we've got to put the house in order,
22:40in other words,
22:41put it on a sound financial footing
22:43so in the future,
22:44we can maybe take some more generous decisions.
22:47But before you can get the house in order,
22:49you have to put the management team in place
22:51because otherwise,
22:52you start making the wrong decisions
22:54about what and who
22:55because you've got to make
22:56what decisions and who decisions
22:57when you're cutting the cost, don't you?
23:00You want to keep the good guys,
23:01lose the guys that are not quite so good,
23:02all those sorts of things.
23:04So you've got to put your management team in place.
23:06That takes time
23:07because everybody in football gets gardening leave.
23:09So the last member of that team arrived last week,
23:11which is Mark Armstrong from PSG,
23:13who's the commercial guy.
23:15Management team.
23:16Then you've got to get the house in order,
23:17the financial structure.
23:19And then,
23:20it's all about recruitment after that,
23:23isn't it?
23:24It's all about,
23:25you know,
23:26Manchester United in the last,
23:27you know,
23:28since Alex,
23:29Sir Alex retired,
23:30spent a billion on players,
23:31which is pretty much the same as Manchester City
23:33or Liverpool.
23:34In fact,
23:35Liverpool hasn't spent a billion
23:36but we haven't spent it that well.
23:37So that,
23:38at the end of the day,
23:39that then becomes the
23:41absolutely number one issue
23:42for the club
23:43is to get recruitment right.
23:44But,
23:46and that needs data analysis
23:48and all that type of stuff,
23:49which we haven't got,
23:50as you know.
23:51But,
23:52you know,
23:53some of the better clubs have.
23:55And then,
23:56I think,
23:57in three years' time
23:58or five years' time,
23:59Manchester United will be
24:01the most profitable club in the world.
24:03It'll have,
24:04if we go down this road to the new stadium,
24:07it'll have the most iconic stadium in the world
24:10and it'll be a winning silverware.
24:13You've obviously talked a lot about
24:15the plight of the club in the last few years,
24:17which I find scary
24:18with the amount of revenue the club generates.
24:20But,
24:21you're obviously in partnership with the Glazer family.
24:23You wanted to take the club on your own
24:25but obviously you've ended up with a minority stake.
24:28They've made these decisions over the last ten years
24:31and
24:33you've put a few hundred million pounds into the club.
24:35You're the first person in the last 25 years
24:38to put money into the club.
24:39They've taken
24:40nearly 200 million pounds out in cash,
24:43in dividends.
24:44They've put
24:45a lot of debt onto the club,
24:46I think about 730 million pounds,
24:48which means that the club has an interest bill
24:50every year of 30, 40 million pounds.
24:5235 million pounds.
24:53It's going to go up potentially
24:54in a couple of years when it matures.
24:58You're an incredible businessman.
25:00You will understand alignment in business
25:02more than anybody.
25:04Your money's being whittled away
25:06and
25:07Spent.
25:08Gone.
25:09Exactly.
25:10Your money's going at this moment in time.
25:12Would it not be a question to pop across the board table
25:15to say,
25:16can you not just rock up with a little bit of cash yourselves
25:18and put some in for once?
25:19They haven't put in for 20 years
25:21and they've taken nearly 200 million out.
25:23It's not the solution
25:25just to keep throwing money at the problem.
25:27I know you have to correct the finances.
25:29You've got to get the house in order.
25:31If you look at the reason the debt is at the level it is at the moment,
25:34which is
25:35730 million.
25:37Plus the player costs.
25:41That's increased by 330 million in the last four years
25:44because the club's been spending so much more
25:46than it's been earning.
25:47Because they won't put money in.
25:49No, that's just because it's spending more.
25:51I know, but if you make mistakes...
25:52It's a bloated organisation
25:53and made mistakes on recruitment.
25:55You're a far better businessman than anybody in this room
25:58and a lot of people in this country.
26:00You'll pay for your mistakes.
26:01You're the type of guy that I think would pay for your mistakes.
26:03Why do they not pay for their mistakes
26:05that they've made in the last 10 years?
26:07Put some equity back in.
26:09The fans are having to pay increased ticket prices.
26:12People are losing their jobs.
26:14People are not getting fed meals anymore.
26:16Former players are having money taken away from them.
26:18And they've took 200 million pounds out.
26:20I know they're your business partners.
26:22I know you can't criticise them.
26:23I know where you're at with this.
26:25There's an element here of it.
26:26It's staring us in the face.
26:28I can't...
26:30I don't think the solution to the problem at Manchester United
26:33is throwing money at it.
26:34But it's not increasing the debt.
26:35If the debt's gone up by 300 million...
26:36The debt will come down.
26:37If we do...
26:39If we're successful in what we're doing at the moment
26:41the debt will naturally...
26:42Like the debt has gone up over the last four years
26:44because it's been losing money.
26:45If we're making money, the opposite will happen.
26:48What we need to do is make...
26:52Because two things have happened with the club.
26:54One...
26:56Well, a few things have happened with the club.
26:58The costs of running the club have gone through the roof.
27:03The expenditure on the squad has gone through the roof
27:06and the salary bill has gone through the roof.
27:08And the performance has declined.
27:10That's all we have.
27:12They bet the bank.
27:14They bet the bank on Champions League
27:16but it hasn't happened.
27:17So we spent a fortune...
27:18And I'm sure that conversation went on every year.
27:20But I can't spend their money for this.
27:23That's not my...
27:24I mean, we have a very professional relationship
27:27with the Glaser family.
27:28And to be honest, they let us get on with it.
27:32Which we are doing at the moment.
27:33You're providing a shield for them, though.
27:35You're now starting to get the flack that they've been getting.
27:37I'm getting quite a lot of flack, yeah.
27:39No, Jim, seriously.
27:40I went to Fulham last Sunday, didn't I?
27:41Just as a fan.
27:42I wasn't working the game.
27:43I wasn't on Sky.
27:44And I'm sat there in the crowd
27:46and you don't actually in the gantry hear everything
27:48because you've got the earphones on,
27:49you've got the conversation on the game.
27:51And I was thinking, you're starting to get...
27:53No, quite a lot.
27:54...the slipstream of their mess.
27:56And you're getting fired at now.
27:57You're a target now for the fans.
27:59And actually, when you came in,
28:00if you think about the perception when you came in,
28:02now you're getting their flack.
28:03You provided an umbrella over their heads.
28:06Yeah, it's true.
28:07But, I mean, change is always uncomfortable, isn't it?
28:12People never like change.
28:13And it's all these things that we're talking...
28:14It needed change.
28:15It has needed change.
28:16But change is all...
28:17Human beings don't like change.
28:19They like the status quo.
28:21They much prefer if people stick their head in the sand
28:23and just assume it'll all go away.
28:24But it won't.
28:26So, you know, change requires some unpopular decisions.
28:31And I think I have to accept that I'm going to be unpopular.
28:36I don't know how long I'll be unpopular.
28:38Maybe I'll be unpopular for a long period of time.
28:40But I think it's worth being unpopular
28:43to fight our way through the changes that are necessary
28:46to get Manchester United back to where it should be.
28:49And hopefully the attitude will change a bit
28:52if we come out the other side with a successful outcome.
28:57But I'm not here to...
29:00I mean, I know a lot of people have a problem
29:04with the Glaser family and what have you, but...
29:06But rightly so, Jim.
29:07To an extent, but remember...
29:09They've run the club.
29:10The problems you've talked about, running the club,
29:12the £270 million that has been increased
29:14has been under their stewardship.
29:16The poor performance, the poor recruitment,
29:17the debt, the increasing debt, it's all on them.
29:20However, I think...
29:22Manchester United were 20 years ago
29:23the best stadium in the country,
29:24the best training ground in the country,
29:26the best team in the country, and we're debt free.
29:28And we're going to be back there.
29:29We will get back there.
29:31But they are 3,000 miles away
29:34and they gave management at Manchester United a lot of rope.
29:37If you look at some of the other characters
29:40in English football who are owners,
29:43and you know them very well,
29:45they're heavily involved in all the detail
29:47of running the club, aren't they,
29:48and the management and what have you.
29:50They gave management an awful lot of rope.
29:52Too much rope, obviously.
29:54But the management, the previous two teams of management
29:58have to take a lot of the blame
29:59for the decisions they made at that club.
30:02They have to, I'm afraid.
30:04It's not just the Glazer family.
30:09But they have been the owners in that area.
30:11Ultimately, they're...
30:12But they've not been involved in the level of detail.
30:16That's negligence.
30:18You're involved in the level of detail there now
30:21and you're having to correct them.
30:22If they've not overseen the club in the last 10 years
30:24to a point where it's running out of cash,
30:26that's negligence.
30:27You know that better than anybody.
30:29Well, I'm not looking backwards.
30:31I'm trying to look forwards.
30:33Let's try and do that.
30:34I look forward.
30:36I'm trying to look forwards.
30:37I think ultimately we'll come out of this difficult period
30:41and we'll find ourselves in a much sunnier place.
30:45I do.
30:46Otherwise, I couldn't deal with
30:47what I'm having to deal with at the moment.
30:49Because it's not very nice
30:50when you go home to Manchester
30:51and you've got people saying some quite unpleasant things.
30:54That's not very nice.
30:55I don't need that, really, to be honest, at my age.
30:58Why are you doing this?
30:59Because I really like Manchester.
31:01Manchester United's been my boyhood club.
31:03And I believe that we can sort it out.
31:05If I didn't believe it, I wouldn't do it.
31:08I'd sell it to the guitarists or something.
31:12I think we'll get there with Manchester.
31:14Manchester United is the greatest football club in the world.
31:17It's the world's favourite football club.
31:19It's the biggest football club.
31:21Everywhere I go on the planet,
31:22there are Manchester United supporters who want to come and talk.
31:25Everywhere I go.
31:27Last summer, we crossed the border between Mongolia and China.
31:30We were the first Europeans to cross the border
31:33from Mongolia to China.
31:35And as soon as we crossed the border,
31:37we were surrounded by Manchester United supporters.
31:39The customs guards, they all wanted photos.
31:41They didn't want to look at my passport.
31:42They just wanted to take a photograph.
31:44So, it's an amazing club.
31:47It's just had this miserable time for 12 seasons, hasn't it?
31:51Since Alex and David Gill retired.
31:54I'd like to see...
31:56Maybe it sounds a bit arrogant that I think I can take it
31:58from where it is to where it should be.
32:00But that's what I believe.
32:03It's not me either.
32:05It's me, it's Omar, it's Jason.
32:07It's Dave, it's Colette.
32:09It's the other guys that you don't really see.
32:12Gary and Mark Armstrong and Roger Bell.
32:18We had a board meeting last week.
32:20It was a really good, cohesive board meeting
32:23with a really good group of people
32:24who were all really, really focused on getting Manchester United
32:26to the right place.
32:27But it's the first time we've had a board meeting
32:29since I arrived on the 1st of January
32:31where we've had the full team in place.
32:33And it was a great board meeting.
32:36People expect instant gratification in the modern world.
32:43But this is, of all football clubs,
32:46this is the supertanker.
32:48It's huge and it takes time.
32:51One thing that the fans are most worried about at the moment
32:54is ticket prices.
32:56What message have you got for them?
32:58Can you give them some comfort?
33:00Obviously the prices have gone up in certain areas
33:02from £66 to £66 and there's no concessions now.
33:09Are we going to see ticket prices increase again next season?
33:12A little bit, yes, we will.
33:14But not a lot.
33:16How much buy do we know?
33:17No, not yet.
33:18We'll know in a couple of weeks.
33:19It's not going to be a big amount.
33:21But what factors are in that decision?
33:23Let's say the club's losing money.
33:25The fans are going to be absolutely livid
33:27if the ticket prices go up again.
33:30It's obviously happened.
33:31It will have happened twice in a very short period of time.
33:38My guidance to the management team is that
33:42we have to look after the faithful supporters.
33:49We have to value the fact that
33:51the support of those supporters at the game is worth points.
33:55Which it is, isn't it?
33:57Who are the faithful supporters?
33:59What do you mean by that?
34:01They're all faithful, aren't they?
34:03The faithful supporters are the supporters who've got a season ticket
34:06and they go to the games.
34:08And the faithful supporter is the guy who's got a season ticket,
34:12he goes to the top six games,
34:14but he also goes to see the other games as well.
34:16He doesn't just pick the top three games
34:18and then sell his ticket on to somebody else for the other games.
34:20In my view, that's a proper supporter.
34:23I don't know whether you agree with that,
34:25but that's where I am.
34:35And it is worth points.
34:37If you look at the Kop,
34:39if you look at the Stretford End,
34:40that's worth points, isn't it?
34:42The more intimidating that atmosphere, the louder it is.
34:45We saw it in the second half against Arsenal.
34:49That really lifted the team in the second half.
34:53I thought the fans were fantastic on Sunday.
34:58So the ticket pricing has to be fair
35:01and it has to be affordable to the local people.
35:04And there are different...
35:06Some people who live in Manchester,
35:08maybe some people who come across from Hong Kong
35:10or come up from London or something like that.
35:12It's a different group of people, really, in a way.
35:14So I think the ticket pricing can be different
35:16depending upon who we're targeting.
35:18And then you've got the younger people...
35:20Nothing to structure it.
35:22But if you look at the income for Manchester United,
35:25it comes from three places.
35:27It comes from TV revenues,
35:30it comes from merchandising, selling shirts,
35:32all that type of stuff, and sponsorship,
35:34and it comes from ticketing.
35:38And you have got inflation,
35:40so we're going to finish up with 700 people at Manchester United
35:45and we have to give them a pay rise.
35:47So ticketing has to contribute a little bit extra
35:51each year.
35:53But, you know, I think there's a discussion going on
35:57about could we freeze the prices for under-16s.
36:00Those types of discussions we're having at the moment.
36:02What's fair? What's affordable?
36:06But we've also got a hole in the finances,
36:09you know, which we need to fill.
36:12I know we got a lot of criticism
36:16whenever it was two or three months ago on ticket pricing.
36:19You know, that £66 thing.
36:21But that... I mean, just to put that in context,
36:24and so you may still criticise me,
36:28or us, maybe, I don't know.
36:30I mean, it was a club decision, it wasn't my decision,
36:33but I didn't know much about it,
36:35but that was 500 tickets out of 75,000
36:39that people returned to the club,
36:43they bought the ticket,
36:45and they returned 500 tickets
36:47because they wanted their money back.
36:49And those 500 tickets were tickets
36:52which had been subject to a discount,
36:54either because they were a young person or an old person.
36:57And the club received those 500 tickets,
37:00which people sent back because they didn't want to go to the game,
37:03they gave those people their money back,
37:05and then they sold the tickets at face value
37:08rather than discounted prices for 500 tickets, that's all.
37:11And the face value was £66.
37:13So that's what the club did.
37:16It wasn't a huge thing that the club did,
37:19it wasn't 10,000 tickets or 5,000 tickets, 500 tickets,
37:22and they were tickets which had been issued at a discount to people,
37:25which I think is a good thing for us to do,
37:27but those people said,
37:28we don't want to go to the game, we want our money back.
37:31Then the club received the 500 tickets, sold them for £66.
37:35That has now been reversed, so we don't do...
37:39And I have...
37:41It was a PR disaster at the time, wasn't it?
37:44It was a catastrophe,
37:45but I'm not sure that fact I've just given you now
37:48is really described terribly well.
37:50Because when you hear that,
37:51that's not the biggest deal in the world
37:53when you think of all the things that are going on in Manchester United.
37:56You said something during, it was a small piece,
37:58you said, I wasn't aware of the decision.
38:00You said you weren't quite across the detail of the 40,000.
38:02I wouldn't expect you to be.
38:03No, I can't be.
38:04To be honest with you, I have businesses myself
38:06and I wouldn't expect to be involved at that level of decision,
38:09but you've got to make sure the people underneath you
38:11understand the magnitude of decisions that are being made in the club.
38:15Because it reflects upon you.
38:16They're going to come for you.
38:17Yeah, which they are doing at the moment, yeah.
38:21But, you know, you don't get it all right all the time.
38:25One huge positive.
38:27I've sat on a task force for...
38:29Are we moving on to a positive?
38:31I thought we'd get...
38:33We've got a minute left, so let's look at something really good.
38:37I said it would be a tough interview, didn't I?
38:40You did.
38:41The stadium, I sat on the last task force committee meeting on Friday
38:45and I had a glimpse of what's coming, obviously,
38:48and it looks absolutely spectacular.
38:51And, you know, I've been shouting about the fact that for me, for years,
38:55there are non-negotiables with United.
38:57A great training ground, an amazing stadium, the best in class.
39:00The football sometimes, you know it's going to be up and down
39:03because that's the name of the club.
39:05We weren't always successful in my childhood.
39:08How excited are you by that and is it deliverable?
39:12It's definitely deliverable,
39:14but I think it needs to be set in context again.
39:17I think...
39:19I mean, where do you...
39:21If you take the view, I'm sure it's your view as well,
39:24that it's the greatest football club in the world,
39:27then if it's going to build a new stadium,
39:30it should be a new stadium that's befitting the greatest club in the world.
39:34And also a stadium that befits the greatest league in the world
39:38because the Premier League is the greatest league in the world.
39:41And at the moment, if you look at the Premier League,
39:44we've got some great stadiums, but we don't have a Bernabeu, do we?
39:47And we don't have a Nou Camp, the new Nou Camp.
39:50We don't have that in the Premier League,
39:52although it's the greatest league in the world.
39:54And also, if you look at the north of England,
39:57the north of England has won ten Champions League finals
40:01and London has won two.
40:04So there's quite a few reasons there
40:08to have the world's most iconic football stadium in the north of England
40:13at the world's greatest club.
40:16And I think...
40:19But the thing that puts it in context,
40:21which I think everyone has to understand,
40:23is that we've got two options.
40:25We can rebuild the existing stadium or refurbish the existing stadium
40:28or we can build a new one.
40:31The only basis upon which we can build a new one
40:34is if it is part of this government regeneration scheme
40:37for South Manchester.
40:39Because we can't afford to regenerate southern Manchester.
40:43That's too big a bill for the club.
40:45So we can build a stadium.
40:47We don't need any government funding for that stadium.
40:49But it has to be the underpin for the regeneration.
40:54And the government have come out...
40:56When was it? Three or four weeks ago, Rachel Roos, the Chancellor,
40:59came out with her growth plan for the future,
41:01which has got these three primary growth projects.
41:06One was Heathrow.
41:07One was Oxford, Cambridge, Silicon Valley.
41:09And the third one was the regeneration of southern Manchester,
41:12which she said would be the shining example of growth in this country.
41:16And it would be the biggest regeneration project in Europe.
41:20But in a regeneration project,
41:22if you look at the Olympic Village in London and all that sort of thing,
41:25there has to be a focus or a nucleus.
41:27Otherwise all you're doing is building a housing estate
41:29and a shopping centre.
41:31And that doesn't normally end well.
41:33So I think that if the government go ahead with their regeneration project
41:39on a scale that sort of befits the north of England,
41:44because there's been a huge number...
41:46The government have had all sorts of regeneration projects in London.
41:48They've had the Olympic Village.
41:50They've got Canary Wharf, the O2.
41:52They've got Wembley.
41:53They've got King's Cross, all sorts of...
41:56You don't go to the north very often.
41:58So if they do this really well and properly,
42:00then I think we should underpin that
42:03with the world's most iconic football stadium.
42:06And I won't say much more,
42:09but Norman Foster, who also is a Mancunian
42:12and is the world's greatest architect, in my view,
42:15really has created the most iconic...
42:18Well, you've seen it.
42:19It's the most iconic stadium.
42:20It's incredible.
42:21Absolutely incredible.
42:22And it would be marvellous if Manchester United
42:25could go down that road in five years' time
42:27or six years' time and have that stadium.
42:29It would be fabulous.
42:30And great for the Premier League.
42:31Great for the north of England.
42:32We could hold England games there,
42:33the Champions League final there.
42:35That would be...
42:37And I think by this summer,
42:39we'll have a best-in-class training centre, I think,
42:42where Carrington's going to finish up its...
42:44I don't know whether you've seen it yet.
42:45No, but I've seen the plans for it.
42:47You've seen the plans.
42:48That's going to be fantastic.
42:49So we'll have a great training centre.
42:50We would have the world's greatest stadium.
42:52It won't be a small stadium.
42:55And, you know, I think...
42:57And it will be a very profitable club.
42:59So the vision for the future for Manchester United
43:01is fantastic.
43:03But we're at the...
43:05You know, we're in the trough at the moment,
43:06at the difficult phase.
43:08Jim, let's end on that.
43:11Look, one thing I would say is that for 25 years,
43:14the Glazer family haven't spoken,
43:16and you are going through a challenging time
43:18at this moment in time.
43:19To be fair, you are communicating.
43:20You do speak, which I think, to start,
43:22the Football Club's owners need to communicate
43:25to the fans in good times and in bad times,
43:27and they've never had communication at United.
43:29So I commend you for that.
43:31We have to face the music a bit, really.
43:32I mean, I know it's been a bit difficult
43:34for the club and for the supporters.
43:36But at the end of the day,
43:37we absolutely want the same thing as the supporters.
43:40That's our only objective in life,
43:42is to see Manchester United winning silverware again.
43:44Good stuff.
43:46Thanks, Jim.
43:47Thank you very much.