Tesla, SpaceX founder and CEO and Department of Government Efficiency advisor Elon Musk on the alleged X cyberattack, spending 'fraud' targeted by DOGE and how the newly-minted office operates in a wide-ranging exclusive interview on 'Kudlow.' #FOXBusiness
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NewsTranscript
00:00All right, we welcome to the show in a special interview with Mr. Elon Musk, who of course
00:05is famed Trump advisor, CEO of Tesla, SpaceX, chair of X Corp.
00:11Elon, thank you for doing this.
00:12We appreciate it.
00:13Thanks for having me.
00:14Among, I want to begin, but among other things, everyone's attacking you for your position.
00:18What are you doing in the government?
00:20There was a cyber attack on X today, which shut it down and may have been foreign sourced.
00:26It's a big story.
00:27Can you give us a moment on that?
00:29Uh, well, we don't, we're not sure exactly what happened, but there was a massive cyber
00:33attack to try to bring down the X system, uh, with, uh, IP addresses originating in
00:39the Ukraine area.
00:40Oh, well, so that's your suspicion is, is the website is, is the internet up?
00:46Is it up yet?
00:47It's up.
00:48Yeah, it's up yet.
00:49Okay, good.
00:50But I just was looking back.
00:51Let me get, see if I get this right.
00:53to various Tesla charging stations near Boston.
00:57Uh, shots were fired at a Tesla dealership, uh, in Oregon, various nonviolent shots fired.
01:05Not a metaphor.
01:06Thoughts fired.
01:07Yes.
01:08Um, downtown New York, uh, marching, marching against the Tesla's, uh, showroom.
01:14Your stock is way down.
01:16You've been criticized left and right, but look on the right side.
01:20I mean, why, why are you doing this?
01:22Always look on the, always look on the bright side of life.
01:26Yes.
01:27I'm an optimist.
01:29But besides that, yes.
01:31I mean, how's your day?
01:32What motivates you to do this?
01:34Was the opera good?
01:36It's tough sledding.
01:37Yeah, it is tough sledding.
01:39Um, but I think we're doing the right thing here.
01:42Uh, the, you know, there's been a tremendous amount of, of waste and fraud in the, in the
01:46government.
01:47Um, you know, when you're part of the government, you, you, you, you saw a lot of that and it's,
01:51and there, there's been, uh, you know, if you look at the inspector general reports
01:56and the government accountability office, um, the, there've been many audits that have
02:01pointed out, uh, that there's tremendous amount of waste and fraud in the government.
02:05In fact, there was a report issued by, by the GAO, GAO, the government accountability
02:09office, um, last year.
02:11So during, during the Biden administration, which estimated the federal government frauds,
02:16the, uh, uh, half a trillion dollars.
02:20So just to be clear, that's, that's not a Trump administration thing.
02:23It's a Biden administration thing.
02:24So what we're trying to do is, uh, get that number down to a much smaller, uh, figure,
02:31um, save money for the American taxpayer, uh, stop money being spent on things that
02:35are, that I think very few taxpayers would agree makes sense.
02:39Uh, you know, transgender animal surgeries or, but why are we spending money?
02:44Why are American tax dollars being spent on this?
02:47Um, and, uh, the presidents are going through a long list of, of, of, of absurd things.
02:54Um, why are the 20 million people who are definitely dead marked as alive in the social
03:00security database?
03:02Um, why were, uh, hundreds of hundreds of millions of dollars of small business administration
03:09loans were given out to people aged 11 and under according to the, according to the
03:14social security.
03:15I mean, like these must have some very enterprising eight year olds, you know, and some pretty
03:19strong hundred and 50 year olds.
03:21Yes, exactly.
03:22As the president said, uh, you know, we have an enormous number of people marked, uh, as
03:29alive who are 160.
03:30He didn't know the country was that healthy.
03:32Um, yes, you know, so demystify this.
03:35How do you do it?
03:36Okay.
03:37How big is your team?
03:39Okay.
03:40Uh, where'd you recruit most of them from?
03:42And what is it that makes you choose, you know, the treasury or social security or USAID?
03:48How does it work?
03:49Let the public know, please.
03:50Right.
03:51Well, we just basically, uh, follow the money.
03:54Uh, you know, we look at the president's executive orders, um, and we also just follow the money.
03:58So we, we started looking closely at USAID because, uh, they were completely violating
04:04the president's executive orders, uh, to suspend, uh, foreign, foreign aid.
04:09You know, what's, what's called foreign aid, but in our view is a lot of corruption.
04:13Um, so what we saw there is just a tremendous amount of money being sent, uh, to, uh, non-governmental
04:21organizations.
04:22But actually it's a, this, by the way, is I think one of the biggest sources of fraud
04:25in the world is government funded non-governmental organizations.
04:29This, this is a gigantic fraud loophole, uh, where the government can give money to, um,
04:36an NGO, uh, and then that there were no controls over that NGO.
04:39So they've given billions of dollars in debt.
04:42We estimate tens of billions of dollars to NGOs that are essentially scams.
04:47Um, and, uh, by the way, I try to put a stop to that, you know, so I don't want to interrupt,
04:53but, uh, secretary of state Rubio just come out.
04:55I think he tweeted today.
04:57Um, he has accepted over 80% of your recommendations to shut down and USAID.
05:03So your review and analysis was spot on.
05:06Uh, yes.
05:07So, um, so I think when people criticize, say what DOJ is doing, we say, well, which
05:14part specifically?
05:16Because we put all of the actions of the, of the DOJ team on the doge.gov website, um,
05:22and on the DOJ handle on X.
05:24So we post the receipts.
05:26So it's like this, this action has been taken, this action has been taken.
05:29So when, when we get criticism, we say like, of what, of what, uh, which, which line do
05:36you disagree with?
05:37Like which, which cut, which cut, which cost saving do you disagree with?
05:41And then people usually can't think of any, uh, you know, so it's transparent line by
05:47line.
05:48It's transparent line by line, which is quite remarkable, right?
05:51And so, and, and then with respect to, um, the treasury, for example, um, we, we, the,
05:59the two main recommendations we, uh, suggested, which have now been implemented was that any
06:06payments going out of the treasury, um, especially the treasury's main payment computer, which
06:11is called PEM, um, uh, things like payments account manager or something like that.
06:16Uh, but it's like almost 5 trillion a year.
06:18So about a billion an hour, um, that the payments, uh, be coded with the congressional
06:23appropriation and that there'd be an explanation for the payment.
06:28Very basic stuff.
06:29Um, and just doing that, we estimate we'll save a hundred billion dollars a year.
06:34You're not really, let me see if I get this right, particularly with social security.
06:38You're not really changing policy.
06:40You're auditing the fiscal mechanisms to make sure that, you know, from point a gets to
06:47point B and that's where it's supposed to get to.
06:49In some cases it doesn't get there or some cases it may go over there.
06:54But that's what it, it's not a policy exercise.
06:57You're not changing laws.
06:58You're just doing what any business would do in a, in a, in a profit and loss audit.
07:04Uh, I think we're really, um, what, what, what we're adding here is caring and competence.
07:12Um, and the, there's a massive amount of fraud of basically people submitting, uh,
07:20social security numbers for, uh, social security benefits, unemployment, small business administration
07:26loans, um, and, uh, and medical where, where those are, those are, those are fake social
07:33security numbers.
07:34So they're, they're, well, they've stolen somebody else's social security number and
07:37we're trying, we're trying to put a stop to all of that.
07:39Um, and that, that's the number which is estimated to be on the order of 10% of federal
07:43expenditures, which is, you know, half a, half a trillion dollars.
07:47A huge number.
07:48Yeah.
07:49Um, you're working with the agency heads, you're working with the cabinet secretaries.
07:55Yes.
07:56I saw Howard Lutnick was on TV yesterday saying you were partnering with them.
08:00Is that fair?
08:01Uh, yeah.
08:02What we do is an in consult consultation with the cabinet secretaries and with their departments.
08:07So, um, we're really, uh, trying to be, uh, sort of, we'll refer to us ourselves as tech
08:16tech support.
08:17You know, we're, we're really, uh, helping the, uh, department, uh, get a handle on things
08:24because what actually happens here is you've got this, this sort of vast federal bureaucracy
08:30and then you've got a very thin layer on top of the, of the politically appointed officials.
08:36Um, and what tends to happen is that the bureaucracy frankly is in control and they largely ignore
08:44the politically appointed people.
08:47Why should the bureaucracy, I'm sure you must've seen that.
08:50I've lived with this twice.
08:51I worked for Reagan many years ago and I worked for Trump in the first term.
08:54Yeah.
08:55It's like a permanent bureaucracy.
08:56I might add it's a permanently liberal bureaucracy.
09:00Yes very much so.
09:01It doesn't, it's, it's not a bureaucracy that necessarily enforces or implements presidential
09:07policy.
09:08They don't.
09:09In fact, they try their best to thwart presidential policy.
09:12So the, the president is the elected representative of the people and if the president cannot
09:18get things implemented as a reflection of the will of the people, then what we have
09:22is not a democracy.
09:24We have a bureaucracy, we have rule of the bureau, not rule of the people.
09:29And that's what we're trying to defeat here is, uh, the bureaucracy and have rule of the
09:34people.
09:35Um, you know, the, uh, and as you mentioned, the, uh, the bureaucracy is overwhelmingly
09:46a Democrat.
09:47So, uh, Washington DC was 92 and a half percent, I believe, uh, voted for Kamala.
09:53So this overwhelmingly, uh, a Democrat, a deep blue situation.
09:58How do you pick your next, uh, targeted agency or department?
10:03Um, well, we're, uh, we're, we're trying to act broadly across all departments.
10:12So it's not just one department at a time.
10:15Um, but, uh, are you in all of them now?
10:17All of them?
10:18Uh, pretty much.
10:19Yeah.
10:20Yes.
10:21Oh, um, we're trying to make, trying to make the government more efficient across the board.
10:26So yeah.
10:27How big's your team?
10:28Uh, we're a little over a hundred at this point, get to 200.
10:33You're going to get to 200.
10:35Yeah.
10:36Okay.
10:37And you're recruiting from where?
10:38Uh, more or less basically it's a software people, uh, you know, uh, information security
10:45software people, uh, and, uh, uh, finance, you know, it's, it's basically, yeah, finance
10:54and technology.
10:55Um, and, uh, I mean, frankly, I can't believe I'm here doing this.
11:00It's kind of bizarre, but, uh, I kind of think that the, you know, we've got this enormous
11:09federal budget deficit and it's a, it's a $2 trillion deficit.
11:13It keeps growing.
11:16Um, our interest payments are higher than our defense department budget.
11:22That's, that's, I think was the real wake up call for me was looking at, at seeing that
11:27the interest payments, the national debt exceeded the defense department budget.
11:32And that was only growing over time, which meant if, if we didn't do something about
11:36this, uh, then there won't be any money for anything.
11:40We'll just be servicing debt.
11:41And you know how to read an income statement and you know how to read a balance sheet.
11:46You've had some business experience, I'm kidding, but yeah, you know about this stuff.
11:51Yeah.
11:52I mean, really, I just don't want America to go bankrupt.
11:54So it's a call to action.
11:55You're feeling, you're hearing a call to action.
11:58Yeah.
11:59Um, you're giving up your other stuff.
12:01I mean, what do you, how are you running your other businesses?
12:05Uh, with great difficulty, um, yeah, I mean, but there's no turning back, you're saying.
12:20I'm just here trying to make a government more efficient, uh, eliminate waste and fraud.
12:26And so far we're making good progress actually.
12:30So our, uh, savings at this point exceed a $4 billion a day.
12:37So it's very significant.
12:39You think you'll wind up getting to a trillion dollars?
12:41Yeah.
12:42In savings?
12:43I mean, unless someone's, unless we're, unless we're stopped, we'll, we will get to a trillion
12:47dollars of savings.
12:48And that stuff can be translated.
12:50I mean, we've been talking, we had Russell vote, the OMB director on earlier, uh, through
12:54very rescission authority, impoundment authority, but I believe you said earlier, um, it's an
13:00audit that will not gather dust on shelves.
13:02This is actually going to wind up with real savings.
13:06Bend the base spending baseline down.
13:08Uh, yeah, uh, there've been many good audits, like I said, done by inspector generals and
13:14by government accountability office and they just haven't been implemented.
13:19Nothing's been done.
13:20Um, the, uh, you know, the, I think the GAO identified that there was 17 million dead
13:27people in the social security database several years ago.
13:29It's not 20 million, uh, but not that we did anything about it.
13:33Um, and I mean, I think we can sort of look at this as a complaint minimization optimization.
13:42So basically if the government sends money out to whether it's a wasteful or forging
13:47fraudulent, nobody complains if they receive money, but, but they do, they do complain
13:52if they don't receive money.
13:54And the people that complain the loudest are the ones receiving the fraudulent money.
13:59And you're on it.
14:01Yeah.
14:02Um, I mean, just as like, so the goal, the goal here is let's, let's not have America
14:07go bankrupt, uh, with waste and fraud.
14:10Um, so that's what I'm here for.
14:14And uh, we're making good progress.
14:17Yes, you are.
14:18You're going to go another year?
14:19Yeah.
14:20I think so.
14:21Final report, middle of next year?
14:25Well, we're, we're just getting things done as opposed to writing a report.
14:29Like I say, reports don't mean anything.
14:31You just, you got to actually take action.
14:34Yes.
14:35Um, so the, I mean, the waste report in entitlement spending, you know, which is all of the, which
14:42is most of the federal spending is entitlements.
14:45So that, that's, that's like the big one to eliminate is that that's the sort of half
14:51trillion, maybe six, 700 billion a year.
14:54Um, that is also a mechanism by which the, uh, Democrats attract and retain illegal immigrants
15:02by essentially paying them to come here and then turning them into voters.
15:07Yes.
15:08So this is why the Democrats are so upset about the situation because they're losing,
15:14you know, if we turn off this gigantic money magnet, uh, for illegal immigrants, then they
15:21will leave and they'll lose voters.
15:25You have president support.
15:26He said so again yesterday, he completely supports your operation.
15:30Yeah.
15:31Uh, well thanks.
15:32I, but that's super, uh, without the president's support, we couldn't, we couldn't make any
15:35progress here.
15:36Um, but, um, yeah, I mean where you'll see the biggest outcry is from the, the, the Democrats
15:44who are, um, they don't want the waste and fraud to be turned off because it is a gigantic
15:51magnet to attract illegal immigrants and have them stay in the country.
15:56Um, and I mean you see, you see some of the crazy stuff like where money from FEMA, you
16:01know, which meant FEMA is an agency that's meant to take care of Americans in distress.
16:05Um, and a bunch of their money was being sent to pay for luxury hotels in New York for illegal
16:12immigrants.
16:14And that was happening even after the president was elected in, even after he signed an executive
16:18order saying that needs to stop.
16:21So we actually made sure that that money did stop going because it's obviously it's outrageous
16:25that American taxpayer money is spent on luxury hotels for illegals.
16:29But you have to say like, why was that being done?
16:31It was because the Democrats are trying to import voters basically.
16:35Yes, I agree.
16:38Yeah.
16:39And that's why there's no voter ID, uh, in needed in, in fact, in California and in New
16:45York state, uh, you're not allowed to show voter ID.
16:50That's a crazy, doesn't it seem insane?
16:52Insane.
16:53Yeah.
16:54I say that as a New Yorker.
16:55It's insane.
16:56Insane.
16:57And it violates the entire constitution and the principles behind it.
17:03Yes.
17:04Producers are yelling at me to get out.
17:05I don't want to end this interview because it's too much fun.
17:07Yeah.
17:09Let me ask you one thing.
17:1020 seconds.
17:11Um, nothing to do with, uh, nothing to do with, um, Doge.
17:14Can you rescue the astronauts?
17:16Uh, yes.
17:17We're bringing them back in a few weeks.
17:18There's not near enough attention being paid to this.
17:21You're going to get him back.
17:22We're going to get him back.
17:23God bless.
17:25Thank you for all your service.
17:26Elon Musk.
17:27We appreciate it very much.
17:28Appreciate it.
17:29Take care.