John Hickenlooper: Is It Okay For Government To Deny Universities Research Money Over Antisemitism?

2 days ago

At today's Senate Health Committee hearing on antisemitism on college campuses, Sen. John Hickenlooper (D-CO) questioned witnesses about how the government should respond to antisemitism on college campuses.

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Transcript

00:00Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you all for your time here and all your work. I think we've

00:11covered sufficiently to say that all of you agree that every student should feel safe

00:16on their campus. Certainly, the troubling rise of anti-Semitic incidents on campuses

00:23over these past two years is troubling and should not be accepted. Students barricading

00:31in their rooms to protect themselves is unacceptable by any standard. But we've cut the Office

00:41of Civil Rights dramatically, and we seem to be pitting two of our fundamental goals

00:47against each other. You know, one is the necessity to stop anti-Semitism, but also

00:55making sure that we uphold the First Amendment rights. And I think American universities

01:03are trying to do that. I went to a little college in Connecticut, Wesleyan, where there's

01:06been a lot of effort about going out and trying to have discussion with both sides, and at

01:14the same time, always keeping students safe. That is their constant priority. And so I

01:20thought, Rabbi Saperstein, do you agree that university leadership should work harder at

01:29making sure we have, not just keeping them safe, but making sure that that dialogue can

01:33help create that safety? I do. There are a number of things that are going on at universities

01:40that would be very helpful now. Exactly the university encouraging and structuring those

01:48kinds of dialogues. Having courses that teach about both Zionism and Palestinian nationalism,

01:55so that people can hear it from an academic point of view. Having opportunities that there

02:03can be an open space and safe space where these dialogues can be held. And the one thing

02:08I would say to your statement and to some of the others, it is always difficult to come

02:14up with a perfect answer of when something steps over speech into harassment or into

02:22intimidation, which are clearly not allowed. What's really important is for the universities

02:29to make clear what their standards are and what kind of protests will step over the line

02:37to be public about it, transparent about it, and consistently enforce it. Nothing is more

02:43important in terms of actually being able to tone down things. For everyone to know

02:48what the rules are, what the limits are, and to see it consistently enforced, no matter

02:56who the perpetrators may be. Great. Any other comments on that? Yeah. Rabbi? Yeah. I think

03:05that, you know, I'm obviously a supporter of the First Amendment. I'm a very deep beneficiary

03:12of the First Amendment. I believe that discussion between peoples is always important. One thing

03:19I'm proud of is the numerous relationships I have with Muslims and Arab leaders who come

03:26to this country. But you got to go a little faster. I'm going to understand them. It will

03:29be three sentences. On the campus of the George Washington University, I was just told

03:35firsthand by a student that they were taught in the first session of a class they needed

03:42to take that just to balance things out, there will be no Israeli written materials allowed

03:49in this course. I believe that. I hear that. I hear that argument, but that's not answering

03:54my question. Dr. Small? I just want to start by saying my family friend's daughter goes

04:00to Wesleyan, and she withdrew because she couldn't stand the pressure of being a young

04:05Jewish woman in this space. That's the first point. No, no, no. I got to get to the question.

04:13I apologize. I wish I had six minutes. Michael Roth, the president there, is one of my heroes.

04:18What he said when there was an encampment, he said, you want to camp? Camp. You harass

04:22somebody. You intimidate. It's a different story. We're going to use this as a learning

04:25experience. One other thing. No, no, no. I just want to get to this last question. Sorry,

04:31Ms. Gamble. You get your one sentence. I think we have to stop hiding behind free speech.

04:37What we are seeing on campuses is not a matter of speech by and large. I hear you. That's

04:42come through. And I don't disagree that that balance between free speech and what we're

04:47talking about. I want to just a quick yes or no right down the line because this is

04:51a crux. Do you think it's appropriate that the federal government threatens to withhold

04:57research money that has nothing to do with any of this issue from major universities

05:02across the country based on how they're addressing this specific issue? The federal government

05:07has the authority to condition how it spends its money. So you think that's OK? When institutions

05:13are violating the law, yes, it is OK. OK. I believe they can reapportion the funding

05:18to institutions that will abide by the law and will protect Jewish students and other

05:23students and not have intimidation on their campus. So research dollars are very hard

05:27to reapportion, but OK, I hear you. There should be a way to do that. It's against the

05:31federal law to fund private or public entities that discriminate against American citizens.

05:38The money is there to do what you're talking about, the rabbi here. To take it from here

05:44is punitive. It's really just aimed at undermining universities to do things that we can find

05:51a better way to get them achieved. Senator, I see it as an existential threat to universities.

05:57They're going to kill cancer research and diabetes research. Some of the researchers

06:01are Jewish. They're doing it without due process. That is not the way to deal with this problem.

06:07That's only going to make it worse. Thank you all. I appreciate it. Yield back.

06:14I just wanted to point out that there's a fine line between free speech and violence.

John Hickenlooper: Is It Okay For Government To Deny Universities Research Money Over Antisemitism?

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