'They're Trying To Evade Detection': Gabe Evans Warns Of Bad Actors Online Targeting Children

4/1/2025

During a House Energy Committee hearing on examining harms online, Rep. Gabe Evans (R-CO) asked a witness about what can be done to combat online exploitation of children and teens online.

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Transcript

00:00I appreciate the gentleman yields back, and I now recognize Mr. Evans from the great state

00:06of Colorado.

00:09Thank you, Mr. Chairman, to the ranking member, to the witnesses for coming today, and of

00:13course to the families and to the parents who are in the audience.

00:19My first question will be to Ms. Soros with NCMEC.

00:21I was a cop for a little over 10 years, so I've personally worked these cases that originated

00:26with tips from NCMEC.

00:27I know the great work that you do, and unfortunately, I know the truly terrible and traumatic events

00:34that you often have to monitor and then refer out for investigation, digital alterations,

00:39revenge porn, online bullying, AI, deepfake, sex tortation, and the list goes on and on.

00:45I think it's critically important to note how horrible and graphic these crimes are.

00:51One of the things that I did in law enforcement was peer support.

00:54That is police officers taking care of other police officers to safeguard and shepherd

00:59the mental health of first responders.

01:03Some of the highest levels of trauma that we ever see in law enforcement is the crimes

01:07against children, investigators, because of just the absolutely brutal and graphic nature

01:13of these crimes, and NCMEC and the work that you do is at the front lines of being able

01:18to identify and refer out for further investigation in this space.

01:23My first question to you comes from something that you had mentioned in your written testimony

01:26where you were talking about some of the challenges of online digital security with end-to-end

01:31encryption but how end-to-end encryption also makes it more difficult at times to be able

01:36to actually identify this.

01:38My question to you is, can you speak a little bit about how we can protect online privacy

01:43with good encryption but also make sure that entities like NCMEC have the tools that they

01:49need to be able to find, interdict, and refer out for investigation on some of these heinous

01:54crimes?

01:55Thank you for the question.

01:57So I think when we are talking about end-to-end encryption and child safety, it's a balancing

02:01act, right?

02:02Like so many other things in our legal system, NCMEC has been very public that we support

02:07end-to-end encryption for consumer privacy.

02:10Obviously everybody wants their medical, their legal, their financial information to be protected

02:15through strong security measures, end-to-end encrypted, et cetera.

02:19We've probably all in this room been hacked previously due to a lack of digital security.

02:22However, there has to be a balance regarding child safety.

02:25And I feel like this has become a little bit of a choice where you have to pick one at

02:32the sacrifice of the other, and we simply don't believe that's the case.

02:35So when you are considering child safety considerations, again, those are not financial, medical, legal

02:45concerns that adults are engaging in.

02:46We are talking about children engaging with adults, with offenders on social media.

02:53There are platforms there that simply do not need to be default end-to-end encrypted.

02:57Children's accounts do not need to be default end-to-end encrypted.

03:01We need to make sure there is visibility and transparency, if children are going to be

03:05online in those environments, so that a company has the ability to detect, right?

03:09This is all about detection.

03:11If a company cannot see what is going on, how an offender is approaching a child, what

03:15kind of imagery they are soliciting or sending that child, we will never get a report at

03:20NCMEC and law enforcement will never get a report to investigate and safeguard a child.

03:25So we support balancing using the technology that's available to us, excuse me, to protect

03:31the digital security that end-to-end encryption provides, while also ensuring that child safety

03:36is balanced with that.

03:39And kind of a follow-up corollary to that, my home state, Colorado, unfortunately has

03:43the distinction of having the second highest number of teenage overdose deaths as a result

03:47of illegal drugs being sold, and we know a lot of times those transactions occur through

03:54online interactions with kids, with juveniles, through social media or other apps.

03:59Can you speak a little bit to how the work that NCMEC has been doing in the child sexual

04:04exploitation space, can we use that as a corollary to be able to identify and interdict some

04:09of these drug transactions that, again, are taking thousands and thousands of lives around

04:14the country, and oftentimes the operating principle that some of these perpetrators

04:19use is very similar.

04:20They use coded language, they're trying to evade detection online.

04:23Can you speak to that?

04:24Absolutely.

04:25And it's a great question and an issue that we've discussed with several other groups

04:28and members of Congress as well previously.

04:30I think there is a corollary.

04:32You know, our cyber tip line, which is the receiver of reports relating to child sexual

04:36exploitation that we evaluate, handle, and then send to law enforcement, is a good model

04:41because it relies on detection by technology companies, by online platforms.

04:46Again, based on emojis, like you said, based on coded language, based on direct solicitations,

04:52that would be very similar for drugs in many ways as it is for CCM or exploitation of children.

04:58Again, having a reporting mechanism that is centralized, again, for drug transactions,

05:04would also facilitate determining a jurisdiction, determining where an offender is, where a

05:09victim is, and allowing law enforcement to pursue their investigation.

05:14Yield back.

'They're Trying To Evade Detection': Gabe Evans Warns Of Bad Actors Online Targeting Children

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