John Moolenaar Urges Action To Combat CCP Efforts To ‘Expand The Reach Of Their Surveillance State’

2 days ago

During Tuesday’s House Appropriations Committee hearing, Rep. John Moolenaar (R-MI) questioned Mark Dybul from the Center for Global Health Practice and Impact and Georgetown University Medical Center, about efforts from China to strengthen their relationship with Africa.

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Transcript

00:00Mr. Molyneux, who also is the chairman of the Bipartisan China Task Force, so

00:04thanks for being here. Sir, you're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to our

00:07witnesses today. And you know, Ambassador Dybal, I want to follow up with you on

00:14some of the comments you've made about, you know, China's work in Africa. You

00:21know, we know about the Chinese Belt and Road Initiative. They also have the

00:25Health Silk Road. You know, it seems that their purpose is really to expand their

00:32influence and control and expand the reach of their surveillance state and use

00:38it for both, you know, economic as well as military purposes. I wonder if you could

00:45talk a little bit about some of the efforts they're making in Africa, because

00:50I agree with you. I think the question I hear from ambassadors from African

00:57countries is, you know, where is, we'd rather do business with the United

01:01States, but where is the United States? And I think it's important that we have a

01:06strategy on that, but I wonder if you could comment on that situation.

01:09Yes, thank you very much. And thank you for the work your committee does, because I

01:14think it's hugely important. I was talking with Marion Christmas, of course, a part of

01:19that committee as well, and I hope the Senate does one as well. So China is all

01:26over Africa, and I can tell you, they have gone in and started to meet with

01:30governments to say, well, the U.S. is pulling out here, so what can we do to

01:34support you? And that is a massive risk to us for the long term. You know, the

01:42diplomatic dividend to us of PEPFAR has been enormous, because they see their lives

01:49saved. And this is down to the community level. I go back to that person in axiom,

01:52PEPFAR means the American people care about us. Shocking state. Down to villages. If we

01:58lose that, we lose a great deal. And we lose a great deal for the future, because of the

02:04mineral wealth that is there, which are essential for all the things that we're

02:08doing, as you know better than I do. But we also lose the military capacity there. And I,

02:15the Department of Defense has been a key part of PEPFAR. We forget about that. But in the

02:19beginning, the Department of Defense was as important as any other agency, because the

02:23militaries were so devastated by HIV. We spent a lot of our time supporting the

02:29militaries. And if it comes back, they're going to be the most impacted as well. But

02:34related to China, they also have grown their pharmaceutical industry. That was actually just

02:41for China. They now are trying to export their pharmaceuticals. They, they're pretty good at

02:45copying pharmaceuticals. And they're even inventing their own. They're going ahead on AI, which is a

02:51massive area for the United States, as you know, as well, who's going to win the AI war? Well, if

02:56you're, first of all, you have a lot of the materials in China, in Africa that you need to make those

03:01chips for AI. But then you also have to have places to do AI and have a genetic pool, which Africa has a

03:08massive genetic pool that is untapped. So on every level, we are at risk of ceding ground to, to China.

03:19Now, is PEPFAR and the Global Fund enough? No. But there are other parts of our government that could

03:24be. And here's where the planning for sustainability is so important. The planning for sustainability

03:29should not just be around HIV, TB, and malaria. That is hugely important because that will protect a lot

03:36of lives. It'll protect the future. It won't squander, as, as the ranking member said, our

03:41investments to date, but it has to involve a broader picture, which includes our private sector,

03:46which includes our military, which includes them. And we can do that, um, if we integrate what we,

03:52how we operate. And, and I would just like to also mention, you know, when I read PEPFOR,

03:59our president's emergency plan for AIDS relief. I think of a plan for an emergency being something

04:07that needs to be modified, updated. And as you point out, you know, looking at how some countries

04:14can transition. Uh, you mentioned South Africa. I'm sure there's other countries in that mix, but I don't

04:20know how often that plan is updated according to, you know, new conditions on the ground, new situations,

04:28because it, it appears like it's an ongoing government program, but that's very different

04:36than a plan that is strategic, updated regularly. And as you point out, benchmarks and, and evaluation.

04:43But I wonder if you could, is that something that can be redrafted in a new era?

04:50Yes. And that's exactly what needs to be done. No question about it. Um, that, that the transition

04:56needs to be, be, we are, we have done it in some places. As I mentioned, 59% of all HIV funding now

05:04comes from domestic sources. And that's really increased over time, but it's nowhere near enough.

05:09And the plan, but we don't have clear plans. And that's what I think this committee and the

05:15administration can require that they're, and PEPFAR actually has been working on one, but it has to

05:19be of the global fund because we also have sources there. Uh, but you can, you should, we do need to

05:26shift to a clear plan with compacts with every country. And there are some that I mentioned there,

05:33there are about three dozen that could transition the next couple of years, literally the next couple

05:37of years. So you could see what we need to do in that reduction in our investment, that a hundred

05:43billion could go to something very low, but if you do it in a structured, clear way with those

05:49benchmarks and you ask for that plan and the administration demand that plan and report to

05:55you regularly on that plan, it can be done and we can have a success. So instead of a rapid retreat,

06:02that will be a total failure for us on every front and threaten our national security, we can actually

06:07turn it to a success and have that transition. 30 seconds more. Uh, just one, I have to leave,

06:15uh, for another meeting, but one thing that strikes me is public, the public health community has lost

06:23trust over the years. And one of the reasons I think, you know, this issue of PEPFAR, this issue of

06:32abortion is so impactful. And, and I've heard it today, this term abortion care. When someone says that

06:43as a healthcare professional, it immediately diminishes their credibility in the minds of many

06:50Americans. Because when they hear something like that, they're interpreting it in a way that says,

06:57you're concerned about children dying of AIDS. Many others are concerned about children dying from

07:04abortion. And there's no difference in, in terms of saving an innocent human life. And so I would just

07:13say, as you speak to the PEPFAR community, to be very clear about the importance of that, because,

07:21you know, all of us should be in the business of wanting to save human lives. And, uh, and I think in

07:27the public health community, when terms are used like abortion care, it really diminishes the credibility.

07:33So with that, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

John Moolenaar Urges Action To Combat CCP Efforts To ‘Expand The Reach Of Their Surveillance State’

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