Will Poulter sits down with The Independent to discuss why he was determined not to romanticise war, how Warfare avoids falling into that trap, and the past roles he believes deserved more love.
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00:00Where are you guys?
00:01Look for the blood and the smoke!
00:04We're there!
00:05Will, hello.
00:05Hey, Jacob.
00:06How are you doing?
00:06I'm good, mate.
00:07How are you?
00:07Good, man.
00:07Yeah, very well, thank you.
00:08We've spoken a bit about warfare already, but I just...
00:11It's a remarkable film in that we were actually saying that it's not one you enjoy.
00:16Did you have to reckon with whether you were going to sign up to it?
00:19Yeah.
00:19Yeah.
00:20Yeah, I did.
00:20I didn't have a desire to really be part of a war film, necessarily.
00:26I think because, to a large extent, you know, my experience of watching war films in the context of, like, Hollywood has been sort of characterized by quite a lot of, like, glorification, romanticization, and I didn't want to contribute to that, you know.
00:46And I probably should have known better that Alex Garland and a former Navy SEAL in joining forces were not going to fall prey to kind of contributing to that sort of catalog of films.
00:58And I jumped at the opportunity to work on warfare because the MO from the outset was to not glorify, not romanticize, but kind of provide a sort of, in my opinion, much needed and refreshing objective take on war.
01:14And, in turn, I think, have veterans more accurately represented and also provide civilians with an opportunity to understand war from a more, kind of, truthful vantage point.
01:27And that felt very, very important.
01:33And, of course, there were some scenes there that are just, like, whoa, like, they've been staying with me ever since.
01:40And God knows how it must have been for you filming it. It must have required a bit of levity when the cameras were switched off and you obviously had a great cast around you.
01:48Yeah, yeah.
01:49How did you guys kind of deal with it when Alex called cut and then you went home for the night?
01:53Yeah, it's, you know, I think one of the things we were very conscious of throughout the process is whatever difficulty and strain we were sort of feeling over the course of making this thing, it was going to pale in comparison to reality, right?
02:08So there was no excuse not to give absolutely everything at all times.
02:11But that's also not to say that it wasn't intense and trying and sometimes quite traumatic.
02:18And one of the ways to sort of respond to that is to engage in levity and humour.
02:23And in that respect, I think we mirrored what I understand to be the real world experiences of people in the military community.
02:29You know, and the men and women who do serve in those spaces often rely on levity and humour to get through, you know, trying and difficult circumstances.
02:38And it is all relative.
02:39And as a group of actors, we were finding it trying and difficult at times.
02:43And so we engage in that levity and humour and relied on it and sometimes what seemed like some of the most unlikely circumstances.
02:52And it was great.
02:53And it was also just a natural byproduct of the bonds that we'd formed.
02:56And, you know, after a three and a half week boot camp, I felt like I'd known some of these guys for years.
03:04And at this stage, I feel like I've known them my whole life.
03:06You know, I can't I can't imagine, you know, not not having known Michael Gandolfini my whole life or Kit Conner.
03:14You know, these guys who I've grown incredibly close to now and I hope I'll know for the rest of my life.
03:20Is there a group chat?
03:21There's a group chat.
03:22There is a group chat, a very active group chat.
03:26I honestly think if it hasn't been every day, it's been every other day since we wrapped that we've spoken on that group chat and people have contributed to it, which is really special.
03:35Yeah, man, who's the best for a bit of a bit of a laugh or is it shared between them?
03:40I think Michael Gandolfini is probably the biggest clown of the group, but he's also simultaneously like one of the wisest and most soulful.
03:50He's sort of he's he's an amazing character, but he is he is very active in the in the comedy department within that group.
03:58Yeah, that's that new guy energy.
04:00This series that I do is called Go To Bet and we like to basically shine a light on your projects that you think is deserving of more love.
04:08What is that for you?
04:11Well, I appreciate the opportunity.
04:13I and I don't want to like sort of misrepresent, I think, where the film was successful.
04:20And certainly like the well-founded pride, I think a lot of people who are involved have in it.
04:25But Detroit comes to mind, I think, because it came out at a time, you know, almost exactly 50 years after the date that the real event that we were depicting happened.
04:40At a time in America, which was especially turbulent in respect of, I think, how the African-American community were being treated by police.
04:54And there was a lot of, I would say, sociopolitical unrest in America at that time.
05:01And it was sort of ironic that the film was depicting this and trying to draw attention to it.
05:07And it garnering that attention was sort of difficult because I think folks were struggling to reckon with something that was sort of holding up a mirror to society and also asking, you know, people to confront something that was like very, very present at the time.
05:28It almost felt too painful for, I think, people to confront.
05:31I think we really wanted people to reckon with it because there were lessons within the film or, to my mind, things that were explored in the film that could have helped us sort of better understand the moment and the challenges that were, of course, sadly, things that never disappeared and have still not gone away entirely, of course.
05:54But were particularly volatile and needed, like, addressing sort of immediately.
06:01It was like an Overton window that I think, you know, was potentially missed.
06:06Start!
06:07Great!
06:08It's not even necessarily a film you enjoy, but it's a film that I think is important.
06:15And certainly it was transformative for me and incredibly educational.
06:22And I'm so, so grateful to have worked for Catherine Bigelow, who quite honestly is an exemplary leader.
06:31And a lot of the things that I learned about leadership and probably applied in warfare came from watching Catherine Bigelow, someone who, you know, would put their ego aside, would hear every voice in the room, didn't feel as a leader that she always needed to be the person to come up with a plan of action, deferred to people over their, you know, superior expertise in certain areas.
06:57But then also had the confidence and authority to take ownership of a moment and lead herself when necessary.
07:05And she is to this day, like, one of the best examples of leadership I've seen.
07:10I mean, the role you play in that film, challenging in many ways.
07:15The effectiveness of that film rests on your shoulders, Jack Rayner's shoulders in many respects.
07:22How do you kind of, as an actor, when you're doing that and acting it, you know, not go into a space where you're like, you go home feeling really rough?
07:31If you do any, you know, anything more than a surface level, you know, deep dive into the racist rhetoric, you see it's characterized by complete mythology.
07:42There's, like, not only is there no fact to sort of, you know, kind of prop up the racist rhetoric, but actually what's really disturbing is it's a subversion of the facts.
07:55And, you know, the racist rhetoric is defined by this idea that, you know, the black community are a threat to white people.
08:05And not only is that a lie, but it's a subversion of the truth, which is that historically white people have always been a threat to the black community.
08:12And so in just discovering that, I think, in order to play a character as aggressively racist as my character was, you just embrace this mythology, this idea that you are kind of denying fact and embracing almost like science fiction.
08:32And that's the way I sort of approached it.
08:34Preparing for this role, I was educated by a woman called Ziza Delgado, who is an expert in African-American history and ethnicity studies.
08:43And she taught me things I really wish I'd learned at school.
08:46You know, I think I'm a product of the British education system.
08:50And unfortunately, you know, the curriculum sort of teaches a very kind of whitewashed and Eurocentric version of history that doesn't give enough attention to the experience of black people.
09:02Or really depict the black experience enough outside of subjects such as slavery and oppression.
09:10And that does a huge disservice to the diaspora, but also the many contributions that black people have made to this country and, you know, the many contributions that have enriched British culture.
09:26So, you know, to get the opportunity to sort of re-educate myself and unlearn as much as learn was massive.
09:34And if it weren't for Detroit, I wouldn't have received that education.
09:38And it's another thing that makes me very, very grateful for the project.
09:41Do you think we're bluffing?
09:44We don't bluff.
09:45Another project that you have been involved in that tackles race relations across a series is The Underground Railroad.
09:55You were in an episode of that.
09:56Now, I think that is one of – and when I say underrated, I think it's very highly rated from the people who watched it.
10:03Right, right.
10:04But I don't know for whatever reason if a lot of people – it still passed some people by.
10:07Anyway, but to be involved with that, working with Barry, I mean, what was that?
10:13Yeah, you make a really good point.
10:15I mean, it's an unbelievable performance from Tussauds and also from Aaron.
10:20They are exceptional.
10:22And for me to work with Barry Jenkins was an enormous, enormous opportunity.
10:28He really is like a singular filmmaker.
10:31I think he's phenomenal.
10:33I only had a small part, and I was actually quite glad, in contrast to my character as Krauss in Detroit, to play, like, something of an ally in Underground Railroad.
10:46But again, you know, that experience was educational for me also, and I felt very honoured to have a space in it as a white character.
10:56I have to ask you a few little questions about the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
11:00And I'm sure there were some people hoping for your name.
11:03Any chance?
11:04I'm delighted for many of the people that I know in that universe, especially Joe Quinn, obviously my fellow Warfare castmate.
11:14You know, so deserving.
11:15I'm so excited to see him in Fantastic Four and now Doomsday as well.
11:20Yeah, it's fully, fully deserved.