During a House Armed Services Committee hearing held before the congressional recess, Rep. Pat Harrigan (R-NC) questioned Military officials about industrial base innovations in the U.S. and Ukraine.
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00:00Chair, I recognize a gentleman from North Carolina, Mr. Harrigan. Mr. Chairman,
00:04thank you, and to both of our witnesses, thanks for your testimony today, and
00:08General Cavoli. I never thought I'd say this, but I absolutely echo the comments
00:13of my two Navy SEAL colleagues here in expressing well wishes for your
00:18retirement. General Cavoli, I've got a couple questions for you today. One of
00:23the things that you testified about is that this really is an industrial war
00:28and that we're behind in industry. Is that correct? This is an industrial scale war,
00:36sir. It's using a lot of old-fashioned equipment that requires heavy industry,
00:41and when we look at our own ability, yeah, we need the ability to produce more
00:47weaponry more quickly. And would you also agree that this is a technologically
00:53different conflict as well? Yeah, it is, sir. There's a very interesting mix of
00:58legacy equipment and high-tech, and it really seems that the side that's able
01:04to combine those two advantageously and then out-adapt the other side's
01:09countermeasures and counter-countermeasures, that side gains the
01:12advantage for an enduring period. Is it your understanding that 80% of the
01:19Russian soldiers who are being killed in the Ukrainian conflict are being killed by
01:23FPV drones? Yes, I have seen those figures, sir. I think it's probably pretty
01:30hard for us to make sure we're accurate on those given, you know, given our ability to
01:34be there and count and everything. But it's certainly well over half, and it's
01:38certainly a large number, and it's a number that has increased steadily over the
01:43course of the conflict. And I would say that these low-cost, high-impact systems are
01:49fundamentally rewriting the rules of the battlefield. Would you agree with that
01:53statement? Yeah, the equipment, Congressman, that is software-defined, where a greater
02:00part of its capability is defined by its software, those are super easy and super
02:06inexpensive to modify and adapt. And so you can take a piece of hardware, and by
02:12manipulating the software, you can stay ahead of the enemy's countermeasures. It's a
02:16remarkable thing we're witnessing on both sides. The Ukrainians have proven
02:20especially adept at putting engineers down at the lowest level, observing what the
02:26soldiers do with the equipment, making modifications, and putting it right back
02:29in the fight. It's a big advance. Thanks for that. And just generally, when I walk
02:35into this room, I don't walk into this room as a Republican. I hope my Democratic
02:40colleagues don't walk in here as Democrats. I know sometimes we all do, but I walk in
02:44here as an American. And I think however we feel about the Ukrainian conflict,
02:50particularly as a former special operator, that I think it would be unwise to not learn
02:55the lessons of this conflict. And one of the concerns that I have, particularly as we've
03:01talked about, our defense industrial base being behind the difference between high-cost,
03:07exquisite capabilities, and low-cost, ubiquitous capabilities, and the capacity to actually build
03:13those capabilities. One of the concerns that I have, given the fact that 80 percent of Russian
03:19soldiers are being killed by FPV drones, is that we have little to non-existent capability
03:28in our country to produce these drones. Would you agree with that statement?
03:31Well, we do have some capability, sir. I know a lot of people are working on it. I think as it goes to
03:42the U.S. military, I'd refer you respectfully to General George, the Chief of Staff of the Army,
03:48who's working very hard to distribute smaller drones at the lowest level and to proliferate them across
03:58formations. He's got a program that he calls Transformation in Contact, where he uses brigades
04:03that are deployed either into the Pacific or into Europe to accelerate his distribution and his
04:09deployment of these drones. I know that he needs some changes in the way funding works, but I'd leave
04:16it to him, sir, on that. And I think I'm aware of these, but I think we're talking about, you know,
04:22thousands quantity. And am I correct in saying Ukraine will produce approximately four million
04:28FPV drones this year? Yeah, that's right, sir. So we are very far behind that level of production
04:33capability for something that is achieving decisive impacts on today's battlefield. Right. They are
04:39they are producing drones like most countries produce ammunition in massive quantities for
04:45expenditure. Should we be doing the same thing in the United States of America?
04:49I believe we should be doing that. And I believe we are increasingly going to be doing that.
04:55I just it's not my responsibility to speak about this programmatic, sir. Thank you, General.