During Senate Environment and Public Works Committee hearing prior to the congressional recess, Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI) questioned J. Alfredo Gomez, the Director of Natural Resources and Environment Team at the U.S. Government Accountability Office, about contamination of Superfund sites.
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00:00Thanks very much. I guess I'll begin until the chair can return. Let me start
00:08with you, Mr. Gomez. Is there any doubt in your mind that flooding of a Superfund
00:16site, whether from storm surge or riverine riparian flooding, or a wildfire
00:28burning through a Superfund site can create contamination issues and, if not
00:37properly managed, can interfere with the remediation process? Certainly there is no
00:44doubt in our past work where we looked at this question, right, of the Superfund
00:49sites and then the potential effects from flooding, wildfire, storm surge, there are
00:55many sites across the country that are located in places where these these
00:59things are happening. In fact, we traveled to several sites. We visited a site in
01:04Houston, Texas, the San Jacinto River site, where because of unprecedented rainfall
01:10from Hurricane Harvey, it actually dispersed the contamination on the river. And so
01:16it's it's happening at sites across the country. I think the purpose of our work
01:21was to show how many sites are located in places where these things are happening,
01:27and it's important then for EPA to ensure that the remedy that's in place is going
01:33to be protective, right? And I would argue that recent experience that you've
01:42described in Texas, also in Florida, shows that this isn't a potential, it's
01:46actually happening and we have to be prepared. And I would add my own editorial
01:52comment that the flagrant errors in FEMA flood mapping create an additional
01:59burden for people managing Superfund sites because they have to figure out what the
02:02real flooding risk is, not what FEMA's phony baloney flooding risk is based on
02:08incompetent or inaccurate mapping.
02:10I've got a specific question because we've got a Bradford dye and finishing site on the
02:17Paukatuck River in Rhode Island. It's an American wild and scenic river, and there is a significant
02:24risk of flooding and release of contamination there. While we're going through the process of
02:33remediation, there is significant danger of contamination out of lagoons that have been
02:40prepared to sort of as a catchment area. What are the interim measures during the period of a
02:49remediation that EPA could require for a site like this while the listing package is being prepared?
03:00So in this case, I mean, EPA can explore other options, and it sounds like this is contaminated sediment,
03:06which really complicates, right, in terms of what the agency can do, just because of the various
03:13things that are happening in place. In other places, perhaps you could do a removal, right,
03:19where you could do a removal perhaps of the contaminants that are present as the continuing
03:25work takes place to figure out how you're going to remediate it. But really, I think in those cases,
03:30it's important for EPA to have the expertise, right, to be able to figure out what are the steps that they
03:37can take in that very site-specific place, and to make sure that it has the expertise, and if it doesn't,
03:44that it can go outside to get it. Mr. Rydell, another site-specific question here.
03:52In the Navy property in Newport, Rhode Island, there is an abandoned hospital, which is on extremely
04:03valuable property, could be put to valuable reuse. It is within the boundaries of a Superfund site,
04:12although it appears to have itself very minor contamination. In your experience, what would be
04:19the appropriate vehicles for trying to assist with the development and reuse of that hospital,
04:27even though it is within the Superfund boundary, if it can be shown that the contamination specific
04:34to the property is minor? In my experience, you know, if we could separate that hospital location from
04:45the overall Superfund site through some kind of, you know, segregation, you know, modifying the parcel
04:54lots. I think that, you know, a competitive bid process for folks to come in and evaluate it would,
05:02I think the market would take care of that one. I mean, my suspicion would be there's probably asbestos
05:08ACM contamination in the building. The building itself, yeah. And that could be
05:11pretty significant. So, you know, you know, I think an RFP for folks to come in and look,
05:18you know, first, you know, asbestos evaluation and then bring folks in to look at it
05:22and kind of get a sense for who would put an investment in to take on that risk
05:28would be worthwhile because I could see that being a motivating factor for folks to get involved and
05:32clean that up. Waterfront property, no less.
05:34Exactly. Madam Chair.
05:35EPA does have a policy called redefinition of Superfund sites where you can go through a process and
05:41redefine the site boundaries and segregate that property.
05:47I'm going to go to, uh, Senator, uh, who's