During a House Appropriations Committee hearing prior to the congressional recess, Rep. Riley Moore (R-WV) questioned Gene L. Dodaro, Comptroller General of the United States, about legal action from the Government Accountability Office.
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00:00Ms. Molloy, I now recognize Mr. Moore for his five minutes.
00:03Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
00:05Appreciate it very much.
00:07A question for the Comptroller D'Arrow.
00:12The chairman's talked about this.
00:14I just want to go back to it real quick.
00:16So in 2018, you issued this letter here to Senator Hatch in a legal decision that GAO's role is essentially complete
00:29once the executive submits a rule to Congress.
00:32Is that correct?
00:34As it relates to the Congressional Review Act submissions.
00:38But we have other roles that we have, which include responding to requests from Congress for clarifications.
00:49You stated a legal decision that the GAO's role is essentially complete once the executive submits a rule to Congress.
00:57Is that correct?
00:58That's correct.
00:59As it relates to CRA.
01:01But what I'm saying is we also have other responsibilities to respond by statute to requests from committees
01:08and members of Congress for legal decisions.
01:11Anybody ask for a legal decision from GAO, we give it to them.
01:14Right.
01:15As a service to the Congress.
01:17Then I'm trying to understand why it seems that your actions in this case as it relates to the Clean Air Act waiver for California EVs mandate seems opposed to that decision.
01:32Well, it's not opposed to that decision.
01:35I mean, basically what it does is explain that decision.
01:38We were asked to clarify our previous legal decisions, which you could argue is an extension of our CRA responsibilities.
01:45And so all we were asked to do is to, in the context of what was submitted, to explain our previous decisions.
01:54The parliamentarians, the parliamentarians, the one that decides whether or not the issue gets put to a vote in the Congress.
02:01That's not our role.
02:02Our role is to answer questions from the Congress and to clarify things.
02:07So when we're asked to clarify our previous legal position, I think it's our, it's important for us to be able to do that, as opposed to having other people try to interpret our previous legal decisions.
02:22Can I ask you, have you ever spoken to the Senate parliamentarian?
02:27I have not, but my staff has.
02:30About this issue specifically?
02:32I don't think we had any conversation.
02:36Let me just check.
02:41No, we did not talk to her on this particular issue.
02:44But other issues?
02:46If she asked for, you know.
02:49Does she have to engage you or do you engage her?
02:53It can happen either way, depending on the issues.
02:55But typically, we respond to her questions, if she has questions on any of our material.
03:03We don't have an ongoing relationship with the parliamentarian, if that's what you're asking.
03:08And so, you're probably not going to answer this now, but if there's previous interactions in between GAO and the Senate parliamentarian,
03:16maybe I submit a question for the record that they can answer later, as it relates to what is the substance, context, and nature of those conversations, I'd be curious to know.
03:29And then, I mean, you stated this, but the purpose of the CRA, and this is in your letter,
03:34is to strengthen congressional oversight of agency rulemaking.
03:38That's a quote.
03:39So, GAO decided that because the agency had submitted the rule, Congress is, and I quote,
03:46able to fully exercise its review and oversight authorities under CRA,
03:51and therefore takes no position on whether the action by the agency constituted a rule.
03:57Do you agree that presidents in this space is crystal clear GAO does not issue legal decisions after an agency has submitted a rule to Congress?
04:07That's correct.
04:08In fact, this isn't a legal decision that we did.
04:11It's a clarification of a previous legal decision we did.
04:15It's not a new legal decision.
04:18But would you say it's fair to characterize that the parliamentarian's determination is taking it as a legal decision because of the action that she is taking?
04:27I can't speak for the parliamentarian.
04:29All I can do is say, if a member of Congress comes to us and asks us to explain a previous legal decision, I'd be hard-pressed to say, no, I can't do that.
04:40I mean, we're just responding to help Congress.
04:42We're not trying to, you know, influence things one way or the other.
04:46We're nonpartisan.
04:48We're asked a question.
04:49We give an answer.
04:50It doesn't matter who it is.
04:52Well, I do have some reports outstanding that have been, I mean, folks that have submitted questions that are, they've been out there for like over a year.
05:03But this one got turned around in 10 days.
05:07That's because it was all...
05:09It's amazing.
05:10Well, not really.
05:11I, you know, basically what we're doing is explaining something we already did before.
05:17Most of these other requests are asking for original work where we got to go to the agency and get their opinions and other things.
05:23In the case of somebody explaining something of an opinion you've already given, you know, it should be turned around quickly.
05:32You know, I don't get very many complaints from Congress about being timely, you know.
05:38So, uh...
05:39Well, this seems to be the only one that was.
05:41That's why it's curious.
05:42It's not the only one where we're timely.
05:45It's the only one I've gotten complaints on lately.
05:47But, you know, I'm just saying our responsibilities to every member of the Congress is Congress as an institution.
05:55If somebody asks us a question, we're going to give them an answer.
05:58So, obviously, as we've talked about, you understand the complications around this issue as it relates to all this.
06:04Would you be willing to rescind that decision or opinion?
06:08No.
06:10No.
06:11Would you be willing to provide something in writing that maybe provides some more clarity around it?
06:16I'd be happy to.
06:17If you submit a question for the record, I'd be happy to answer.
06:20All right.
06:20Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
06:21I yield back.