The London Marathon sparked a fiery row on GB News after allowing transgender women to run as females in this weekend's race.Following the Supreme Court's landmark ruling on biological women, race director Hugh Brasher has confirmed that participants in Sunday's iconic race can continue to self-identify their gender.FULL STORY HERE.
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00:00But the London Marathon is charging ahead, and so are transgender women.
00:05Yes, organisers say that runners can self-ID their gender for the mass race,
00:10despite a Supreme Court ruling on biological sex.
00:13Well, it's a move that is reigniting debate over sport identity and fairness,
00:18just days ahead of that marathon start.
00:21Well, joining us now is transgender marathon runner Glenique Frank.
00:25Glenique, there should be no barriers to anybody running in this race.
00:32It's a race for the general public.
00:34But there are only two sexes, male and female.
00:37Why should male runners be allowed to record themselves as female?
00:43Well, when you, again, this whole transgender thing that's happened,
00:47and I'm so glad that you're calling me again on the whole of the UK,
00:50because I was picked on in 2023.
00:52Because in the mass race, as you said, it's an open race.
00:56It's a charity race, because there's not only transgender people in the race.
00:59There's also disabled people in the race.
01:01So people could complain about that.
01:02The able-bodied people don't complain about that.
01:05But with transgender women, it's a mass race.
01:08That's what the question was.
01:09Forget about the Supreme Court hearing and all that.
01:12That's a whole other thing, because this is just about one event.
01:16And it's in the mass race, the charity race.
01:18And at the moment, what I keep trying to campaign for,
01:22why can't you have male, female and then LGBTQ+,
01:26which stands for all the different and keep everybody happy.
01:30You know, non-binary and other is just, to me, is just a sexual category.
01:35It's not gender.
01:36So why can't they just keep it fair and have a category of LGBTQ+.
01:41Because then you'd force the lesbians and the gay and the bisexual people
01:45to not run with the straight people.
01:47But hang on, they are there, because do you know what LGBTQ+, stands for?
01:51That's the whole thing.
01:52Lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender.
01:54There you go.
01:55So we're all in one happy race.
01:57But why would a gay woman or a gay man not be allowed to compete with straight people?
02:04Well, they are there.
02:05They are in the same race as straight people.
02:07I don't understand that question.
02:08Do you not accept that your sexuality has absolutely no impact on your sports performance,
02:14but your sex, whether you're male or female,
02:17has an enormous impact on your sports performance?
02:19This is biological, going back to the whole biological thing again.
02:22And what we're trying to say.
02:23Well, that's the reason we have single-sex sports, isn't it?
02:25Because males have such an inherent advantage over women.
02:28This is not the question you've heard me about,
02:30what's my opinion on what Hugh's saying about the race?
02:33And that's what I'm giving you.
02:35Don't go into another whole category and sidetrack me,
02:37because that's a whole other kind of words we need to open and discuss.
02:41I think what we're asking you is,
02:43nobody thinks that anybody should be banned from entering the London Marathon.
02:48It is open to all people, as you say.
02:50But for the purpose of recording the results,
02:53which is a very important thing to many people, what time they get,
02:57then the categories should be male or female.
02:59And how you are recorded should be on the base of your biological sex.
03:03That's the argument.
03:03Well, like I said to you, when I was picked up by Mari Yamanouchi,
03:07and I didn't want to hurt anybody,
03:09why couldn't she phone me personally and say,
03:11what category are you under?
03:12There's no category for me.
03:14There's non-binary or other.
03:15So you'd like a third category?
03:18No, just three.
03:19Male, female and then LGBTQ+.
03:22Right.
03:22Well, there is male, female and non-binary, I think,
03:25in the current set-up.
03:27Well, the thing is, non-binary will fit under LGBTQ+,
03:29because that's what it's all about.
03:30Because you don't identify as non-binary.
03:32It's to keep the same-sex people happy,
03:34and this is what it's all about.
03:36Let's be all happy.
03:37But the thing is, when it comes to a mass race, like you said,
03:40I could end up, if there was a category called unicorn,
03:43I could have entered under that.
03:44But there's no category for me, transgender people.
03:47You see what I mean?
03:48So I've got female genitalia.
03:50Now, where am I going to go?
03:51What toilet to go in?
03:52But I think, let's get this away from toilets,
03:55because this is not about single-sex spaces.
03:57This is about how should the results be recorded?
04:01And the organisers of the marathon are saying
04:04that they are not going to change as a result of the Supreme Court ruling.
04:08They are waiting for further guidance
04:09and will continue to allow males to enter as females.
04:13Yeah, well, but I'm not...
04:14But you'd be careful,
04:16because as transgender males now are women.
04:19Well, they're not in law, biology or fact,
04:22but that is what the argument's about.
04:24The thing is, a transgender woman is a woman,
04:28because we've got female genitalia.
04:32No, that's not what makes a woman, though, is it?
04:33It's the fact that you've got X, Y chromosomes that makes you a man.
04:37Well, let me tell you now that in the elite game,
04:39because I'm a personal trainer, you're in my gym right now,
04:42and some of the elite women beat the elite men.
04:44So what are you going to say about that?
04:45Because their testosterone levels are actually quite higher than mine.
04:49No, that is interesting.
04:50I'm afraid we could, I'm sure,
04:51do a back and forth for a long, long time.
04:53But, Gleney, Frank, that's all we've got time for.
04:55James Jenden, marathon runner,
04:56really appreciate you coming on and putting forward your case there.