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00:00I'm Matt Carey, documentary editor at Deadline.com.
00:03On Deadline Contenders, doc, unscripted, and variety,
00:06we have for you a really incredible documentary,
00:09Sly Lives, a.k.a. The Burden of Black Genius,
00:12about the extraordinary musician Sly Stone,
00:15a man perhaps as troubled as he is brilliant.
00:19We are joined now by the Oscar-winning director,
00:21executive producer Amir Questlove-Thompson,
00:24and Oscar-winning producer Joseph Patel.
00:26Thank you so much for being with us.
00:28Thank you for having us.
00:31Before we get into some questions,
00:33let's take a look at a clip from Sly Lives.
00:36This is with Andre 3000, who is making his assessment
00:41of what Sly and the Family Stone was accomplishing
00:45at the height of their powers.
00:47To me, one of the greatest things about Sly
00:49is he's letting us peer into something very free.
00:53The appearance, the clothing, even the wigs,
00:56it was from another world.
00:58When it came together as the sound,
01:00it was so future.
01:05Ah!
01:07Yeah!
01:15Thank you!
01:16I think this is one of the wonderful accomplishments of the film
01:19is allowing us to bask in this ecstatic music.
01:24It is just incredible.
01:26And because of things that have gone on with Sly later in his life,
01:30it's obscured the talent in many respects.
01:33But I love something that Clive Davis says,
01:36that it wasn't just hits that Sly and the Family Stone were making.
01:40These were culture-defining, culture-changing hits.
01:44So it's so important to remember that, to understand that,
01:48to appreciate that.
01:49Yeah, you know, I think the one thing that you really can't,
01:56you know, when an artist is a creative and releases product out into the world,
02:02of course, it's always with the intention of hitting that target spot on.
02:08But, you know, occasionally in history you see it with the way that Thriller
02:15unleashed his stealth in, you know, in 82,
02:20the British invasion happening in 64,
02:25the beginning of rock and roll in the early 50s.
02:28Once in a blue moon, you have, like, a paradigm shift
02:34or someone just hits the zeitgeist, like, right at the right time.
02:39And, you know, in Sly's case, timing is everything.
02:42You know, from him being a five-year-old prodigy,
02:47studying classical music, leading his church at that young of an age,
02:52him as a DJ in the Bay Area,
02:54sort of planting seeds in the minds of people
02:57that we will later call hippies when they're 18, 19, 20 years old
03:01from listening to his radio show.
03:04And, you know, he just happened to be at the helm
03:08creating the language and the alphabet
03:12for which even to this day we are still using
03:16his tools and his tricks of the trade
03:19to create, you know, to express ourselves through music.
03:24So, but it's also extremely,
03:28it's very possible for all of that to get lost to history.
03:33And that's kind of what this is about,
03:34a study of, you know,
03:37kind of this is at Sly's doing.
03:42I guess what Joseph and I want to know is
03:44why would you get to the mountaintop
03:47and then just walk away from it?
03:48So that's pretty much the $10 trillion question.
03:54Yeah, and Joseph, I was struck by Sly's
03:58sweetness and vulnerability
04:01and that he, in interviews,
04:04like the one that begins a film with Maria Shriver,
04:07he's so honest in how he answers questions.
04:11He's very in the moment.
04:12But when you're sensitive, boy, you know,
04:16that doesn't leave you with protective coating
04:19that may be necessary.
04:21Yeah, it's funny, you know,
04:23that interview with Maria Shriver,
04:24we use sort of as a through line in the doc.
04:27And in the beginning,
04:28when she's restating his accomplishments,
04:30you see him sort of white knuckling
04:33the corner of the sofa.
04:35You know, there's a sweetness to him,
04:38but there's also, you know,
04:39a caginess, a coyness,
04:41and really a sort of, you know,
04:45unease with his success.
04:49And we like that bite to start the film
04:51because, you know, it shows a few things.
04:54It shows, one, his accomplishments,
04:56two, how uneasy he is with them,
04:59and three, sort of the audacity of her
05:01to ask him, you know,
05:03and then you blew it.
05:05And it's like, you know,
05:06and it's so, to us, it really struck a chord
05:10for some of the themes
05:11that we wanted to get into in the film
05:12right at the very beginning.
05:15I think, Crystal,
05:16certainly a big part of this
05:17is the expectations and burdens
05:20that are placed on a Black artist of genius
05:24like Sly Stone.
05:27For instance, you talk about the context
05:28in which he came up.
05:30You know, his first success is,
05:33you know, in the civil rights era,
05:34is flourishing, but then he goes to Woodstock.
05:38By 1969, of course, we're in a different moment
05:41where it's the Black Power movement.
05:44Civil rights is integrationist in focus.
05:47Black nationalism is something else.
05:49He's sort of expected
05:50to somehow resolve all of this,
05:53which is impossible.
05:55The main problem is that
05:57people often use entertainers
05:58as probably the safest
06:01arm's length
06:04way to slowly get to know
06:07people that might not
06:09come from their side of the tracks.
06:12You know, I have many a friend
06:14who used watching
06:16YoMTV raps or listening
06:18to, you know,
06:20a Biggie CD
06:21to figure out the, you know,
06:23the totality of the Black existence.
06:26And, I mean, it's more than that.
06:28And oftentimes,
06:29there's this unspoken,
06:32and it's on both sides.
06:34You know, on one side,
06:36it's you have to cross every T
06:39and dot every I
06:40and represent
06:42and speak for
06:43yourself
06:44and your entire generation
06:46and your people.
06:49And then on the other side
06:51of that pressure,
06:52it's,
06:52okay,
06:54you're representing us,
06:56so don't mess up
06:57and, you know,
06:58don't embarrass us.
06:59Don't do anything
07:01that will
07:02make us look at you
07:04in shame.
07:06So there's kind of,
07:08there's pressure
07:11coming from both sides,
07:14but then at the end of the day,
07:16it's also like
07:17what's in Sly's mind,
07:20you know,
07:20and oftentimes,
07:21we will
07:22kind of
07:25place these obstacles
07:27in our way.
07:28And that's,
07:29and that's, again,
07:30that's the theme of,
07:31you know,
07:31is the burden real enough
07:33to stop him
07:34from progressing
07:35or are all of this stuff
07:38self-inflicted?
07:41Was, you know,
07:41and that's what we investigate.
07:44Not only with him,
07:45but practically,
07:46this is for every artist,
07:48myself included.
07:49And also,
07:50you know,
07:51Matt,
07:51the question,
07:52I mean,
07:52your observation
07:53is a really good one
07:54because it's really
07:55where we started
07:55the film.
07:57The first conversation
07:59Amir and I had
07:59about this
08:00was, you know,
08:01him talking about,
08:03can you imagine
08:04being Sly Stone
08:05in 1969
08:06or 1970?
08:08You're 26 years old.
08:09You've just headlined
08:10Woodstock.
08:11People are looking to you
08:13like you've solved
08:14race relations
08:14through your music.
08:16You know,
08:16you're on the cover
08:17of Rolling Stone.
08:18What do you do
08:19as a Black artist
08:20in America
08:21with all of that
08:22on your shoulders?
08:24And that was sort of
08:25the conversation
08:25we had
08:26at the very beginning.
08:28And I think,
08:28you know,
08:29Amir wanted to look
08:30at Sly's story
08:32with a lot of empathy
08:33because
08:34no other artist
08:36had been in that position
08:37before Sly.
08:39He's the biggest
08:40Black musician
08:42post-civil rights era
08:44with this sort of
08:45unique burden
08:46of having to sort of
08:47like quell both
08:48a Black audience
08:49or satisfy a Black audience
08:50and a White audience.
08:52And what that must have
08:53been like for him,
08:55right?
08:55Mark Anthony Neal
08:56says this in the movie.
08:57There's no Black Elvis
08:58that you can consult
08:59to say,
08:59what do I do next?
09:01And that's really
09:02sort of where
09:03I think Sly's
09:04problems start
09:06is that unease
09:07and not knowing
09:09what to do next
09:09and then sort of
09:10self-sabotaging
09:11in the face of that.
09:14As audiences,
09:15we have some sort
09:17of sense
09:17in a narrative
09:19fictional film
09:19of when there's
09:20an act break.
09:22Often that's not clear
09:23in a documentary.
09:26I think it's clear
09:27to makers of documentaries
09:28and not necessarily
09:29to the audience.
09:30To me,
09:30there's a very clear
09:31act break
09:32in your film.
09:33It happens around
09:3445 minutes in
09:35and this is when
09:36Sly moves
09:37from the Bay Area
09:38to L.A.
09:38Questlove,
09:40what happens there
09:42and how does
09:43that lead to
09:44the breakup
09:45of the family
09:46that was Sly
09:47and the Family Stone?
09:48I feel as though
09:50this is a story
09:52of a creative
09:53who channels
09:57within his heart
09:58to create
10:00this utopian
10:01kind of
10:03Dr. King's
10:05I had a dream
10:06vision
10:07of this band,
10:09this intersectional band
10:10and they get
10:11initial success
10:14not the first time
10:16out the gate
10:16but the second time
10:17out the gate
10:18and then they become
10:21household names
10:21by their fourth album
10:23and suddenly
10:25you know,
10:27there's
10:27the first thing
10:29that happens
10:29is there's a feeling
10:30of guilt
10:31that happens
10:31and
10:33when
10:34you feel
10:35guilty
10:36for success
10:37because your success
10:38is isolated
10:39there's pressure
10:40on you
10:40to keep
10:41the train
10:42running
10:43oftentimes
10:45subconsciously
10:48without even
10:49knowing it
10:50you are
10:50undoing
10:52everything
10:54that you've
10:56dreamt
10:57about doing
10:58I mean
10:58it's much
10:59more than
11:00just
11:00be careful
11:03for what you
11:03ask for
11:05you know
11:06I mean
11:06it's
11:07to me
11:08I think
11:08it's more
11:09than just
11:09like oh
11:09a cautionary
11:10tale
11:10because even
11:12when we
11:13started this
11:13I would ask
11:15various people
11:16like what do you
11:16think happened
11:17to Slystone
11:17and they all
11:18had the same
11:18sort of
11:19dismissive
11:19question
11:21which is
11:21like well
11:21you know
11:22he got famous
11:23and then he
11:24chose drugs
11:25and then he
11:25started hanging
11:26with the wrong
11:26people
11:26and destroyed
11:27himself
11:27and you
11:30know I
11:30don't think
11:31that any
11:31habit is
11:32started as
11:33a I chose
11:34this I
11:34chose that
11:35it's based
11:37on a
11:39fear
11:39and unwillingness
11:42to see
11:43something through
11:44a fear of
11:45not knowing
11:45what's next
11:46and you
11:47know we
11:47like what's
11:48familiar
11:48and kind
11:50of struggling
11:51is what
11:51Sly was
11:53used to
11:53but what
11:54happens when
11:54you get
11:54everything that
11:55you ever
11:56wanted
11:56and so
11:57act
11:58by act
11:59you know
12:00act one
12:00of course
12:01is the
12:01genesis
12:02of the
12:03story
12:03the genesis
12:04of San
12:04Francisco
12:05the band
12:06members
12:06act two
12:08is his
12:09life
12:09while
12:10immersed in
12:12the success
12:12and it
12:15doesn't seem
12:15that bright
12:17and shiny
12:17act three
12:18is kind
12:19of the
12:20aftermath
12:20because you
12:22know one
12:22of the
12:22unfortunate
12:23things about
12:23the this
12:24particular story
12:25is that
12:25not only
12:27are you
12:28affected as
12:29the central
12:29but the
12:31hundreds of
12:32people that
12:32you've sort
12:33of unwillingly
12:36kind of ran
12:37over you
12:38know so many
12:39bodies in your
12:40rearview mirror
12:40that you're
12:41looking at and
12:42the effect on
12:43them but in
12:44this particular
12:45case you know
12:46what Joseph
12:47and I kind
12:49of observed
12:49when we were
12:51shooting was
12:54that his
12:54kids could
12:56have easily
12:57I mean just
12:58easily made
12:59him the
12:59emotional
13:00pinata to
13:02beat up a
13:02pawn you know
13:03stories after
13:04stories after
13:04stories like
13:05the stories of
13:07Sly's mess
13:07ups were
13:08are legendary
13:09and we
13:11purposely wanted
13:11to avoid that
13:12one because
13:13like most
13:13people know
13:14them but
13:14really it's
13:16it's it's
13:17the love and
13:18the empathy
13:18that his
13:19kids have
13:19for him
13:20despite
13:21everything
13:22he's been
13:23through so
13:24yeah that
13:25that absolutely
13:26comes through
13:27and it's
13:27really sort of
13:28tender endearing
13:29aspect to the
13:30film so we
13:32have a sense
13:33of certainly
13:33the two of
13:35his daughters
13:36and son
13:36participating in
13:37the film and
13:38and thus what
13:38they think about
13:39it and that
13:40that's an
13:41implied endorsement
13:42of the project
13:42do we know
13:43what Sly
13:45himself thinks
13:46of the film
13:47Joseph
13:47yeah I mean
13:49you know we
13:49didn't interview
13:50Sly for this
13:50film because
13:51he's not
13:51physically in
13:53good shape to
13:53be on
13:54camera and
13:55even if he
13:56were I
13:56don't know if
13:57he would be
13:57reflective enough
13:58in the way that
13:59we would want
14:00for our story
14:01you know to
14:03some extent
14:04actually
14:05intentionally the
14:06people in the
14:07film every
14:07person in the
14:08film is there
14:09for a reason
14:10and our
14:11thinking was
14:12well if we
14:13can't get
14:13Sly we can
14:14get D'Angelo
14:15and we can
14:16get Andre
14:17and we can
14:17get Shaka
14:18and George
14:19Clinton
14:19and Niall
14:20Rogers
14:21all artists
14:22who have
14:23been through
14:23things similar
14:24to Sly
14:25you know that's
14:26sort of the
14:26premise of the
14:26film is the
14:28the struggles
14:28that Sly went
14:29through reverberate
14:30through generations
14:31and you know
14:35I think even if
14:38you don't know
14:38D'Angelo's
14:39backstory or
14:40Vernon Reed's
14:40backstory what
14:41they say is
14:43very you know
14:46illuminating to
14:47Sly's story
14:48but if you do
14:49know their
14:49backstory it
14:51adds a deeper
14:52level of
14:52understanding to
14:53the narrative
14:54right if you
14:54do know
14:54D'Angelo
14:55struggled every
14:56night on the
14:57voodoo tour to
14:58go out on
14:59stage because
15:00he was expected
15:01to take off
15:02his shirt and
15:03be in perfect
15:03physical condition
15:04and perform for
15:05a sold-out room
15:06every night you
15:08know Amir was
15:09his drummer on
15:09that tour he
15:10was he was
15:11first-hand
15:11witness to it
15:12you know Vernon
15:14Reed narrates
15:14the Dick Cavett
15:15scene where
15:16where Sly is
15:16uneasy on the
15:18sofa of Dick
15:18Cavett's talk
15:19show but but
15:20still you know
15:21smart enough not
15:22to not want to
15:22play the game
15:23but Vernon Reed
15:24was a black
15:25guitarist in
15:26living color at
15:27a time when
15:27he's been on
15:28that couch
15:28before you
15:29know he's
15:30been he's
15:31been questioned
15:31by a white
15:32talk show host
15:33about his rock
15:34bona fides as a
15:35black guitarist
15:36and so we
15:37wanted to cast
15:38people in this
15:38film who were
15:39directly impacted
15:40by Sly but
15:41also sort of
15:42lived some of
15:43the things that
15:43Sly went
15:43through that is
15:45all being
15:46said when
15:47we did show
15:48the movie to
15:48Sly after we
15:49were finished
15:49we heard that
15:51he loved it
15:52you know we
15:53heard I think
15:54the part that
15:55that I was
15:56told that was
15:56his favorite
15:57was was seeing
15:57his kids in
15:58it and like
16:00Amir just
16:01said you know
16:02his kids have
16:02every reason
16:03to hate him
16:03every reason
16:05to disassociate
16:06from him but
16:06they love him
16:07they adore him
16:08and I think
16:09that's sort
16:09of the
16:10emotional
16:10high point
16:13we wanted to
16:13kind of end
16:14the film on
16:14was that
16:15that love
16:16through the
16:16people that
16:17Sly had in
16:18his life
16:18well it's
16:21an extraordinary
16:21film and
16:22again it's
16:23just there are
16:25moments of pure
16:26ecstasy I think
16:27for anyone who
16:27loves music
16:28the film Sly
16:29Lives aka
16:30the burden of
16:31black genius
16:32we have been
16:33joined by Amir
16:34Questlove-Thompson
16:34the director and
16:35executive producer
16:36and by the
16:37producer Joseph
16:38Patel both
16:39Oscar winning
16:40filmmakers thank
16:42you so much
16:43for being with
16:43us thank you
16:45man I
16:45appreciate it
16:46of course the
16:47film is streaming
16:47on Hula so you
16:48can watch it
16:49there thank you
16:50again gentlemen