The House Oversight Committee held a hearing entitled, "Securing the Skies: Addressing Unauthorized Drone Activity Over U.S. Military Installations."
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00:00I'd like to welcome everyone. Without objection, the chair may declare a recess at any time.
00:00:05I recognize myself for the purpose of making an opening statement.
00:00:12Thank you for joining us today as we discuss one of the most complex and serious threats to our national security,
00:00:17the unauthorized use of unmanned aerial systems, or UAS, over U.S. military installations and sensitive sites.
00:00:24In recent years, we've seen a surge in drone incursions over military installations across the country.
00:00:28In 2024, the Department of Defense stated that there are more than 1 million drones registered in the United States
00:00:35and estimated that there are more than 8,500 drones flown legally across the country every day.
00:00:42I've even seen some of these drone incursions firsthand during my time in the South Carolina Air National Guard.
00:00:48However, these incursions are not from hobbyists being blown off course.
00:00:52The multitude of drones reported flying over bases in the past several years revealed a coordinated effort
00:00:57by our adversaries to collect valuable intelligence and surveillance of some of our most sensitive military equipment.
00:01:03These incursions often are designed to disrupt important trainings and create chaos for a number of reasons.
00:01:10Number one, base commanders have inadequate or non-existent monitoring capabilities.
00:01:15Two, a near total lack of counter drone capabilities.
00:01:19Three, unclear standard operating procedures to guide base commanders' responses and decision-making.
00:01:25And finally, four, ambiguous legal authorities, both on and off base.
00:01:31This threat is magnified by the complex regulatory and prosecutorial framework that was patched together by the previous administration
00:01:39in what I would argue is a poor attempt to address this issue.
00:01:42Right now, the Department of Defense, Federal Aviation Administration, Intelligence Community, Department of Justice,
00:01:48and Department of Homeland Security are all involved in some aspects of the counter-UAS efforts.
00:01:55As a result, there is no agency with primary authority on countering drone incursions, leading to confusion,
00:02:00and more importantly, gaps on how to identify and mitigate this threat.
00:02:04This interagency failure was on full display last winter when hundreds of drones were spotted in the skies above New Jersey
00:02:11and other parts of the Northeast.
00:02:13After several temporary flight restrictions and mass confusion among state, local, and federal partners,
00:02:19the Biden administration provided the public no answers what was happening above them.
00:02:24However, with only a few weeks of the current administration taking office,
00:02:28they revealed that the drones over New Jersey were actually authorized by the FAA.
00:02:35This instance raises multiple questions as to why the previous administration left the American people in the dark
00:02:40for over a month when they knew the simple truth.
00:02:43Another notable incident occurred at Langley Air Force Base in December of 2023.
00:02:48Over 17 days, unidentified drones repeatedly breached our sensitive military airspace,
00:02:53one of most America's critical installations.
00:02:55The F-22 Raptor squadrons were moved to alternate bases to lessen exposure,
00:03:01and discussions were initiated on installing physical countermeasures.
00:03:05These are not isolated incidents.
00:03:07In February, the commander of NORAD and NORTHCOM testified to Congress that there were over 350 detections of drones
00:03:13at 100 different military installations last year alone.
00:03:17Additionally, since 2023, two Chinese nationals have been arrested for illegally flying drones over military installations
00:03:23to conduct surveillance.
00:03:25One of these individuals was caught attempting to flee the U.S.
00:03:28and return to China with sensitive footage he had recorded.
00:03:32Today, this committee will hear from officials from the Department of Defense
00:03:35on what the Trump administration is doing to help combat this issue
00:03:40and bring an end to these illegal drone incursions.
00:03:42We must demand full accountability, expedited technological upgrades, and enhanced oversight
00:03:48to safeguard our sovereignty and ensure that our military remains unexposed to foreign surveillance
00:03:53and potential threats.
00:03:55I'm hopeful that our witnesses here today have suggestions on how Congress can help empower
00:03:59the right federal agencies to combat this problem and secure the skies above our military bases.
00:04:05I now recognize Ranking Member Subramaniam for the purpose of making an opening statement.
00:04:13Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
00:04:14Thank you for holding this important hearing, and thank you to our witnesses for being here today
00:04:18and for your service to our country and to making our airspace safe.
00:04:23It's clear that UAS is an issue right now.
00:04:27It's the future of warfare.
00:04:28From the war in Ukraine to our own military bases in the continental United States,
00:04:33we are seeing real-time that UAS are redefining how battles are fought and how intelligence is gathered.
00:04:39And I believe it's been 350 drones that have been reported in the last year,
00:04:44over 100 different military installations.
00:04:47That's 350 different potential national security breaches that we know of.
00:04:51These include highly sensitive sites, such as nuclear facilities and major military bases,
00:04:56and that's a huge threat to our national security and the lives of our service members.
00:05:00And unfortunately, you know, our lack of coordinated, effective response needs to be addressed immediately.
00:05:05And I know everyone here today wants to work on it and is planning on working on it.
00:05:09And so we're familiar with this issue in my home state and the Commonwealth of Virginia.
00:05:14In December 2023, service members at Langley Air Force Base in Virginia saw drones hovering over their airspace for 17 days.
00:05:22And Langley, for those who don't know, is home to key national security assets like the F-22 Raptor, Stealth Fighter,
00:05:28and it plays an important role in keeping us safe here in our nation's capital.
00:05:31And so we also have some important naval assets in that area, too.
00:05:35And, you know, these drones demonstrated complicated aerial maneuvers and didn't just broadcast on known frequencies,
00:05:42suggesting that they weren't just a local hobbyist making an innocent mistake.
00:05:46As far as we can tell in Congress, there was and still is not a cohesive or coordinated plan for how we're going to deal with this.
00:05:55But maybe we can learn more today about what's happening now and what we can do moving forward.
00:06:00You know, our job on this committee is to find answers to questions, and I have a lot.
00:06:05You know, who is piloting these drones, for instance?
00:06:08These criminal actors or these foreign adversaries?
00:06:10Are they simply local hobbyists with advanced capabilities?
00:06:13I'm not sure about that, but maybe that's the case.
00:06:16And what are they doing?
00:06:17Are they gathering intelligence?
00:06:18Are they probing for weaknesses?
00:06:21Are they planning an attack?
00:06:22And finally, what is our plan for dealing with them safely and effectively?
00:06:26Because these UAS are a clear and present danger to our national security, and we need to have a plan to counter them.
00:06:33There are several areas I'd like to focus on today.
00:06:36The first is counter drone authorities.
00:06:38Right now, the U.S. law allows the Department of Energy, Justice, Defense, and Homeland Security to detect and respond to drone activities in certain situations, such as nuclear facilities, for instance, missile defense assets, or other covered facilities.
00:06:52But only around half of all military installations actually fall under this definition of covered facility, which is why I think this may be something we should look at for change.
00:07:05The second is counter drone technologies.
00:07:09You know, it's not just as simple as shooting them down, as we know.
00:07:12You know, there are homes and businesses and parks near bases like Langley, and people live there, children play there.
00:07:20Shooting down drones could endanger people in these communities, especially if we don't know what payloads the drones may carry.
00:07:26And a missed shot could also pose a threat to commercial air traffic as well.
00:07:30And so, you know, we need to find a way to safely counter some of these incursions.
00:07:36And we have other technologies at our disposal, like jamming and disrupting and even taking over unknown or hostile drones.
00:07:43But there's a lot of work to do to develop these capabilities.
00:07:46And some of that work actually takes place in my district in northern Virginia.
00:07:51And, you know, with that said, I don't know of a silver bullet.
00:07:54And so it's going to take a coordinated effort, I think, at the state, local, and federal level.
00:07:58And so we're all going to have to work together because everyone's got different jurisdictions.
00:08:02And I'd like to, on that front, see if we can work together and maybe have some sort of task force in place so that information is easily gathered and where everyone's up to date on the latest technology as well as the best practices.
00:08:17And so this is a very timely hearing on an important issue.
00:08:20And I want to work with my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to come up with a plan to protect our military bases and protect the American people.
00:08:27So I yield back.
00:08:28Thank you for that.
00:08:29I'm pleased to welcome an expert panel of witnesses for today's discussion.
00:08:33I'd first like to welcome Rear Admiral Paul Spadaro, the Vice Director for Operations, or J3, for the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
00:08:41I'd also like to welcome Mr. Mark Detlefson, who is the current Acting Assistant Secretary of Defense for Homeland Defense and Hemispheric Affairs.
00:08:49Due to unforeseen circumstances, the FAA is no longer testifying at today's hearing, but they have committed to answering in writing any questions that our members have.
00:08:57If any member has questions they would like to submit to the FAA following this hearing, please get them to staff for the FAA to answer.
00:09:05Now we're going to administer the oath to the witnesses.
00:09:12Pursuant to Committee Rule 9G, the witnesses will please stand and raise their right hand.
00:09:17Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony that you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
00:09:22So help you God?
00:09:25Please take your seat.
00:09:27Let the record show that the witnesses answered in the affirmative.
00:09:31We appreciate you being here today and look forward to your testimony.
00:09:34Let me remind the witnesses that we will have read your written statement, and it will appear in full in the hearing record.
00:09:41Please limit your oral statement to five minutes.
00:09:44As a reminder, please press the button on the microphone in front of you so that it is on and the members can hear you.
00:09:49When you begin to speak, the light in front of you will turn green.
00:09:52After four minutes, the light will turn yellow.
00:09:54When the red light comes on, your five minutes have expired.
00:09:57And we would ask that you please wrap up.
00:10:00I now recognize Rear Admiral Spadaro for his opening statement.
00:10:09Good afternoon, Chairman Timmons, Ranking Member Subramaniam, Committee Members, ladies and gentlemen.
00:10:14Thank you for the opportunity to be here today, and thank you for your support and your oversight.
00:10:20Admittedly, several of my opening comments will echo those of the chairman and the ranking member.
00:10:26The rapid emergence, proliferation, and employment of unmanned systems has fundamentally changed the way that both professional militaries,
00:10:35as well as terrorist organizations, conduct warfare.
00:10:37Over the last few years, we have seen the employment of unmanned systems, in particular, unmanned aerial systems,
00:10:45in every major conflict, from the Russia-Ukraine war to Iran's attacks on Israel
00:10:50and attacks against U.S. bases and ships across the Middle East.
00:10:54And most tragically, an Iranian-supported militant group successfully employed a one-way attack drone on Tower 22 in Jordan,
00:11:02killing three U.S. service members and wounding 40 on January 27, 2024.
00:11:09Here in the homeland, as Assistant Secretary Thilveson will note in his opening remarks,
00:11:13the mass drone incursions over Joint Base Langley-Eustace in December 2023
00:11:18reminded us that the homeland is no longer a sanctuary.
00:11:22And should our adversary choose to employ drones for surveillance or even attack,
00:11:27we would not be prepared to adequately defend our homeland
00:11:30and only marginally capable to defend our military installations.
00:11:34The incursions over Joint Base Langley-Eustace were not the first.
00:11:39They've not been the last.
00:11:41But they were the longest and the largest series of incursions that we have seen to date.
00:11:45In the comprehensive review of that event, as well as in the actions we took in follow-on incursions
00:11:51like those that occurred over Plant 42 in Palmdale, California,
00:11:55and over Picatinny Arsenal and Naval Weapons Station Earl in New Jersey,
00:11:59have resulted in improvements.
00:12:01But more action is needed, and the Joint Force has made counter-UAS our priority line of effort.
00:12:07We are now better prepared to respond to incursions
00:12:10with the designation of Commander U.S. Northern Command and Commander U.S. Indo-Pacific Command
00:12:15as the operational synchronizers in their respective areas of responsibility.
00:12:21Last year, and within weeks of being assigned this role,
00:12:24General Guillaume, the Commander of U.S. Northern Command,
00:12:27released a comprehensive commander's assessment that has served as a roadmap
00:12:31to building the necessary command and control and standard operating procedures to address the drone threat.
00:12:37Over the last year, we have also invested in education and training,
00:12:40against this threat.
00:12:42NORTHCOM has been the central driving force for the work being done by several organizations
00:12:47in partnership with industry to deliver the domain awareness and counter-UAS systems that we require.
00:12:54And lastly, we are progressing well in our completion of the counter-UAS tasks assigned to us
00:12:59in the fiscal year 25 NDAA.
00:13:02We appreciate your continued support and your oversight.
00:13:05Thank you for the opportunity to be here today, and I will now pass to Secretary Dibutson.
00:13:10Chairman Timmons, Ranking Member Subramanyam, and distinguished members of the committee,
00:13:19thank you for the opportunity to speak here today.
00:13:21The events of December 2023 at Joint Base Langley-Eustis served to focus and energize
00:13:28DOD's counter-small UAS efforts in the homeland.
00:13:31During the event, DOD struggled to address the incursions in a timely and effective fashion,
00:13:36owing at least in part to challenges within the DOD and our ability to implement a relatively
00:13:41untested interagency coordination process.
00:13:45To some extent, those challenges from JBLE still exist.
00:13:49However, we have worked since then to improve and refine our processes and coordination efforts,
00:13:54and we have seen improvements in subsequent responses.
00:13:57I can assure the committee that the department is as frustrated by these events as you are.
00:14:03However, we can't simply focus on looking back and waste-precious resources.
00:14:08As a department, we act, we review that action, we adjust, and we move out.
00:14:14Today, I'm here to tell you that we are continuing to move out.
00:14:17I'm confident that we are in a stronger position to defend DOD installations today
00:14:21than we were in December of 2023.
00:14:25We are fighting this threat on three fronts.
00:14:27Internal process reviews, generating better domain awareness,
00:14:31and clarifying commander's authority and legislation.
00:14:34Internally, we must focus on the ability to provide response at the speed of relevance.
00:14:39The designation of U.S. NORTHCOM and U.S. INDO-PACOM late last year
00:14:43as the counter-UAS operational synchronizers in their respective areas of the homeland
00:14:47was an essential step.
00:14:48We have developed more streamlined interagency coordination consistent with Section 130-I.
00:14:54We are also conducting a comprehensive review, as requested in the FY25 NDAA Section 925,
00:15:02and where necessary, consolidating and updating DOD policy.
00:15:06This is an effort long overdue, and it provides us with direction and momentum.
00:15:11Lastly, working with our interagency partners, like our colleagues from the FAA,
00:15:15we have enabled DOD to sponsor facilities, which provide a critical mission to DOD
00:15:21but are not directly DOD facilities or assets.
00:15:26Second, generating better domain awareness is essential to developing an understanding
00:15:30of what is flying in our airspace and how to separate the negligent from the nefarious.
00:15:35This is the fundamental issue we saw at Langley in New Jersey.
00:15:39DOD is working through venues like the Joint Rapid Acquisition Cell, the JRAC,
00:15:43to rapidly acquire the right equipment, and to give commanders better tools to understand
00:15:47the operating environment and the ability to effectively conduct non-kinetic and kinetic mitigations.
00:15:54Commander U.S. Northcom phrased it this way in his posture hearing in February.
00:15:58You can't defeat what you can't see.
00:16:01On the legislative front, we continue to engage with members of Congress
00:16:04to seek modest but important refinements to DOD's counter-UAS authorities under Section 130I.
00:16:12Our legislative proposal is intended to allow the Department to protect additional locations
00:16:17and missions, add greater stability for long-term planning and resource allocation within the Department,
00:16:23and facilitate improved understanding and cooperation among the U.S. interagency and local partners.
00:16:29Ultimately, I believe we need to address all these issues with end-users in mind.
00:16:35Our installation commanders and the security personnel charged with the duties to protect
00:16:39our installations, our operations, and ultimately, our personnel.
00:16:45Lastly, the President of the United States has issued several executive orders directing the Department of Defense
00:16:50to take all appropriate and lawful measures to ensure the complete operational control of the border.
00:16:56The Department, in turn, is responding by preparing the path for employment of counter-SUAS activities
00:17:02along the border, both in support of DOD interests and in support of DHS as the lead federal agency.
00:17:09As the operational environment, legislation, and threats evolve, policy must adapt to ensure
00:17:15DOD's ability to continue to advance our national defense objectives remains.
00:17:20Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Subramaniam, and distinguished members of the Committee,
00:17:24In conclusion, the Homeland continues to face increased and evolving threats from UAS.
00:17:31To address these challenges requires a whole-of-government approach and a unified effort.
00:17:36We must modernize the ability to assess the threat, determine its weaknesses, and acquire and deploy countermeasures.
00:17:44Thank you for the support of Congress and for your continued commitment and support of the Department of Defense.
00:17:50I look forward to your questions.
00:17:53I now recognize myself for five minutes.
00:17:56Rear Admiral Spadaro, how many drone incursions have taken place over U.S. military installations over the past two years?
00:18:02We got the number last time we had a briefing of 350, but have they grown, or what's the current data you're willing to share?
00:18:12Yeah, so the exact number I'd be happy to share in a classified setting, but I can tell you that it has grown.
00:18:18I'm actually curious, why did we get the 350 number in an unclassified setting?
00:18:23That was one of the questions I had.
00:18:27It's a great question, sir.
00:18:28Okay.
00:18:29Fair enough.
00:18:30All right, well, let's do this.
00:18:31Can you discuss procedures that DOD has in place for a base commander when the base commander gets reports of an unauthorized drone incursion?
00:18:42Yeah, so currently there is a standard operating procedure that's been published by the commander of U.S. Northern Command.
00:18:48So each base has been provided that standard operating procedure.
00:18:51The expectation that they will respond in accordance with the...
00:18:55When was that created?
00:18:57It was just published here recently, within the last month, it was finalized and published.
00:19:03So what percent of base commanders have any technology to actually track drones as opposed to just, ooh, I saw a drone, and then you report it?
00:19:12Yeah, so the capabilities at each base is varied.
00:19:15Again, the specifics for the individual locations would be better in a classified setting, but it is not comprehensive, I can tell you that.
00:19:24It is not sufficient, and again, varies from base to base, from very little to somewhat more comprehensive.
00:19:31Is that something that Congress can help with authorizations and appropriations to get additional resources?
00:19:37Because I think that I would feel that most bases should have, at the very least, the ability to track, whether they have countermeasures or a different thing.
00:19:45But is that something that you all need?
00:19:48You need additional money?
00:19:49Yes, sir, absolutely.
00:19:50I think the development, fielding, the acquisition, distribution of domain awareness sensors is a critical first step.
00:19:58It's not the only thing.
00:20:00Obviously, we need a method to exert command and control so that we can build a common operating picture, because it will take layers of different sensors.
00:20:09Because one sensor may be better against certain UAVs and certain flight profiles, and you may have to rely on different sensors to round out the picture.
00:20:17So being able to fuse all that together to get the complete picture will be necessary.
00:20:22And then, as you mentioned, getting to a point where we can actually respond, that's an entirely next investment that needs to be made.
00:20:29So, yes, we do need more sensors.
00:20:31We are addressing the shortfall right now with the fielding of flyaway kits.
00:20:35So these will be kits that will be available for bases that have very limited capability to detect on their own and build domain awareness.
00:20:44And should they have an incursion that they're unable to resolve, they would solicit the help from Commander U.S. Northern Command.
00:20:51And this flyaway kit, as well as expertise and additional resources that would be required, would be immediately deployed to that location.
00:20:57So, I guess resources are probably fairly easy, and you all are going to work on telling us what you actually need from a technology perspective.
00:21:06But the other side is the authority.
00:21:07So, I mean, does a base commander have clear authorities what they can and can't do relative to whether the drone is in their airspace or just outside the airspace?
00:21:17And is that as big or bigger of a problem?
00:21:21So, all of our installations have the authority that's afforded them under the standing rules of engagement and the standing rules for the use of force.
00:21:28You know, in those rules, if they can establish that there's hostile intent or hostile act, then they not only have the authority,
00:21:37but they have the absolute right and responsibility to respond appropriately to protect themselves, forces, as well as DOD property.
00:21:47So, those are standing rules that they have.
00:21:49Now, being able to discern hostile intent and hostile act, as referred to in the opening comments, may be very challenging.
00:21:56Is this negligent activity being conducted by someone just flying a drone irresponsibly, whether that is a recreational enthusiast or it is someone that's using a drone for commercial aspects?
00:22:08So, it can be a challenge here in the homeland to determine that.
00:22:12So, a base commander has the authority to, for example, arrest a Chinese national that's a quarter mile off base?
00:22:17He does not have the authority to detain someone that is off base.
00:22:22He would have to coordinate with local law enforcement to apprehend someone that is operating a drone outside of the base.
00:22:29Now, I know Secretary Dillison will talk about 130I authorities, which is something that we really do want to talk about today,
00:22:36because they think it's important, but under 130I authorities, there is some additional room to respond.
00:22:44For a covered facility, merely the presence of that drone conducting unauthorized surveillance or suspected of conducting unauthorized surveillance
00:22:51or interfering with operations, as you referred to in your opening statement about the interference with F-22 operations,
00:22:57that would meet the standard for response, rather than having to determine hostile intent or hostile act.
00:23:03Thank you for that.
00:23:04My time has expired.
00:23:05I now recognize the gentleman from Virginia, Mr. Subramanian, for five minutes.
00:23:10Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
00:23:11I wanted to go back to something I mentioned a couple of times, which is what is a covered facility
00:23:18and a not covered facility?
00:23:20And Admiral Spadaro, if you're not a covered facility, what does that mean?
00:23:28Like, does that mean, does that impair your ability to respond?
00:23:32And what do covered facilities have that non-covered ones don't?
00:23:35And so if you're not covered, you can request to be covered, but you'd have to meet the criteria to become a covered facility.
00:23:42And that is one of the problems with the 130I authorization, is meeting the criteria for covered.
00:23:50An example of this would be Luke Air Force Base, where F-35 training takes place for roughly three-quarters of those that fly F-35s.
00:23:57And it is not a covered facility because training facilities are not covered.
00:24:01So it would be problematic to actually get approval for Luke Air Force Base to be a 130I.
00:24:07Now, as I mentioned earlier, under 130I, if a drone is conducting unauthorized surveillance,
00:24:13or suspected even of conducting authorized surveillance, then the base commander would be able to respond to that.
00:24:19Unauthorized surveillance may or may not meet the criteria of hostile intent,
00:24:25which would give you the authority to respond under the standing rules of engagement
00:24:28and the standing rules for the use of force.
00:24:30So it relieves some of the burden on that base commander to determine that there is an imminent threat.
00:24:37If this is interfering with our operations, if this is giving a potential adversary a look at our base
00:24:42and our sensitive activities, then we have the authority to respond.
00:24:46And I mentioned before having to reach out to local jurisdictions, if someone's operating UAS outside of a base,
00:24:54and what kind of coordination is currently being done with state and local jurisdictions?
00:24:58Is it sort of ad hoc, or is there, like, a process in place right now?
00:25:02And does federal law limit the extent of engagement with state and local, and how can we make that better?
00:25:10Yeah, thank you for that question.
00:25:11So each base commander, one of his imperatives is to build relationships with the local community.
00:25:16That would include law enforcement agencies.
00:25:18It is covered extensively in all of the base commander courses, so part of their training and their education program before they assume command
00:25:26is building how to build those relationships, the importance, what the limitations of those are.
00:25:32So each individual base commander is responsible.
00:25:35There are additional lessons learned and protocols and best practices about how to engage law enforcement on this particular threat,
00:25:42but those occur at our bases, and did occur at Joint Base Langley-Eustis.
00:25:46They had a very, very tight relationship with local law enforcement, with sheriffs, police departments,
00:25:53as well as other federal agencies, law enforcement agencies that have capability in that area.
00:26:00And they did respond in concert together to try to apprehend individuals that were responsible for that drone activity over the base.
00:26:08So that it does occur, and it is very important.
00:26:14And as far as technology and mitigation, what, I don't know, maybe we need, this is the right forum for this,
00:26:24but broadly, do you think there's technology gaps currently, and do you think that there's progress being made towards kind of filling those gaps?
00:26:33And what can we do, both in Congress as well as the private industry, to help kind of fill the gaps
00:26:38when it comes to technology for trying to address both kinetic and non-kinetic solutions?
00:26:45Yeah, in general, the technology to field systems has far outpaced the technology to defeat those systems.
00:26:54It's a much wider, broader, deeper market for drone application for commercial and recreational purposes.
00:27:01So, hence, that technology has evolved very quickly from radio-controlled drones to now fully autonomous drones
00:27:08that may or may not even rely on reception of a GPS signal, which would make it very challenging to intercept.
00:27:14So on the counter-drone activity, you know, you have to come back to agencies that would be interested in that,
00:27:21like Department of Defense, Department of Homeland Security, FBI, you know, law enforcement agencies.
00:27:26So we have to partner and we have to create that demand with an industry to get technology back on pace
00:27:33to counter this ever-increasing emergence of drone technology.
00:27:39Do you feel like we have the personnel right now and the expertise in the country to be able to do this?
00:27:49I think we've seen a good response.
00:27:51I'll refer to Secretary Dillitson.
00:27:53He can talk about DIU and other organizations that have really made a solid partnership with industry
00:28:00to advance this technology.
00:28:04Thank you, Admiral.
00:28:06Yes, there are several different organizations within the DOD that are looking at this issue
00:28:11and moving out rapidly to acquire new capabilities, such as the JRAC, the Joint Counter UAS Office, and DIU.
00:28:18So all of those, this is a focus area and one of their primary lines of effort.
00:28:24I'll go back.
00:28:26And I recognize the gentleman from Virginia, Mr. McGuire, for five minutes.
00:28:30Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our witnesses.
00:28:32Admiral, thanks for your service.
00:28:35I want to add a yes or no from both of you.
00:28:37Are you aware of the August 2020 Advisory?
00:28:39It's an advisory on the application of federal laws to the application and use of technologies
00:28:46to detect and mitigate unmanned aircraft systems.
00:28:50Are you two aware of that?
00:28:53Yeah, no, sir.
00:28:53I'm not specifically aware of that.
00:28:55If it went appropriate, I have a copy, and I'd like to admit that into the record.
00:28:59Without objection, so ordered.
00:29:01So I believe that's the source of a lot of the problems that we have.
00:29:04In the military, we have something called paralysis by analysis.
00:29:06Obviously, the commanders at Langley and other bases have seen drones, and they fail to act
00:29:11because, and I believe the source of those problems is this August 2020 advisory.
00:29:16And I think I have a solution for it.
00:29:19I was recently at the southern border where I met with Tom Homan.
00:29:22I went with border control, ICE agents, mayors, sheriffs, business owners, 10th Mountain Division
00:29:28folks that are protecting our border from San Diego all the way to Texas.
00:29:32And I asked them, are you seeing drones come across the southern border and surveying our troops?
00:29:38And the answer was yes.
00:29:40And I said, is 130I working for you right now?
00:29:44And I know what they said, but Admiral, what do you think?
00:29:47Is 130I right now working for us?
00:29:50So they don't have 130I.
00:29:54That's the first piece.
00:29:55And we're working to resolve that.
00:29:58So, for instance, in the national defense areas that have just been established as an annex, does not have 130I.
00:30:07I get it.
00:30:07I'm going to get to a point.
00:30:09Yeah.
00:30:09And how about, do you have an opinion on 130I right now as of today?
00:30:14Yes, Congressman.
00:30:15If we can get 130I implemented in these areas where a Joint Task Force Southwest Border is operating,
00:30:22it should enable the commanders on the ground to have those expanded authorities that allow them to interdict and mitigate these UAS threats.
00:30:30And I know you said you're working with Congress on legislation, so I'd like to talk to you about an idea on a piece of legislation.
00:30:35It may be something that involves judiciary and FAA, but let me run this across you.
00:30:40So we currently have troops on the border facing the cartels and our critical infrastructure.
00:30:46Now, of course, we've got Langley Air Force Base and other critical infrastructure as well.
00:30:49And, of course, we've got bad actors that have bought land next to our military bases.
00:30:55And they're surveilling us on a daily basis.
00:30:57And it's only a matter of time until we have our next 911, 9-11 terrorist attack.
00:31:03The problem is bureaucracy prevents action, but this time we know about it and we can fix it.
00:31:08And right now with 130I, the way it's proposed, you have to be observed or attacked and then ask for permission, and that takes delays.
00:31:16I've got an idea that might speed that up.
00:31:1818 U.S.C., U.S. Code 32, is treating remote-control airplanes, which I call a drone.
00:31:25So 18 U.S.C. 32 is treating remote-control airplanes or drones as if they're passenger airplanes.
00:31:31And they're not.
00:31:34Basically, the problem is the government has created a complex statute to let a few bad actors possibly take action if you jump through a thousand hoops, 130I.
00:31:48This is not good enough.
00:31:49We owe it to our military and our citizens to fix this.
00:31:51The United States provides better protection from U.S. to Saudi Arabia than we do to our own citizens.
00:31:56And so my idea for a bill is you change the word from aircraft to manned aircraft because I think every commander is afraid that if I shoot down a remote-control airplane or a drone, I'm going to be – no one's going to back me up.
00:32:10I think I remember hearing the Langley commander say, are you guys going to back me up?
00:32:15Are you guys going to back me up?
00:32:16And no one answered.
00:32:17That may not be 100 percent true, but Admiral, do you have any comments on that idea?
00:32:21Yeah, this is the burden of command.
00:32:24And you need to understand that if there is something that is assessed as a threat to your forces or your installation, then, again, you not only have the authority but the responsibility to act.
00:32:33I would counter that they have authority right now on the southwest border to engage UAS.
00:32:38We have, in the last few days alone, reaffirmed that under the standing rules of engagement and the standing rules of use of force,
00:32:45when you take in the totality of the facts and the circumstances at the time, you have the authority.
00:32:51We know that cartels have used UAS for unauthorized surveillance to assess our troop size, our movements, to solicit and enable attacks from other vectors.
00:33:02We know that they have used drones and kinetic attacks against Mexican military authorities.
00:33:06I just returned from the southern border and I asked the commander from Texas to San Diego if he has authority to shoot down drones that he's looking at, that's looking at his troops.
00:33:15And he still is not sure.
00:33:17I just left the southern border.
00:33:19And I think it goes back to that advisory.
00:33:22That advisory has created a stigma and I think that we can mitigate or overcome that if we just change the word from aircraft to manned aircraft.
00:33:31And then they won't have such a huge penalty if they shoot down a drone.
00:33:35And certainly if someone wants to prosecute somebody for shooting down private property, there are plenty of laws on the books for that.
00:33:42But with that, I have no further questions.
00:33:44Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
00:33:45I yield back.
00:33:46I now recognize the gentleman from Massachusetts, Mr. Lynch, for five minutes.
00:33:50Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
00:33:51And I want to thank the witnesses for helping the committee with his work.
00:33:55I do have to say that I would prefer that we were reviewing the facts of the signal chats that were conducted by Secretary Hegseth
00:34:06and the Trump leadership team in order to get to the bottom of that.
00:34:12However, I will at a later date in full committee enter a resolution of inquiry to ask the administration to provide information to this committee,
00:34:26to the oversight committee, to the oversight committee regarding how that happened.
00:34:29It was bad enough.
00:34:32The last time we were here, we just knew that the initial signal chat had happened
00:34:39and that inadvertently they had included the editor of the Atlantic, who was not approved for clearance,
00:34:49and that the chat included specific information about those attacks against Yemen,
00:35:00and which could have put our sons and daughters in uniform at grave risk.
00:35:08Now, that was then.
00:35:10Now we know that this chat also went to Secretary Hegseth's brother, his sister.
00:35:20I don't think his mom was in on it.
00:35:22She's about only one in the family who wasn't in on it.
00:35:24And then the family attorney was in on it as well.
00:35:29So that's a whole set of people who were not authorized to be on that chat, again,
00:35:38that disclosed classified information and actionable intelligence about an impending U.S. attack in Yemen.
00:35:48And then beyond that, now we find out that Secretary Hegseth is using his Gmail account
00:35:58and using a phone that was listed on his sports betting app and available to the public.
00:36:09So this just keeps getting worse.
00:36:12I know that is not the fault of these witnesses, and they probably cannot illuminate the circumstances,
00:36:23but I will be filing that resolution of inquiry asking for the White House to provide that information
00:36:30because that is important.
00:36:32It's not partisan politics.
00:36:34It's just what the Oversight Committee should be doing to keep military personnel safe, like what we're doing here.
00:36:42We're having a hearing on drones, you know, being flown in the area of, you know, U.S. bases,
00:36:49and that presents a danger to our sons and daughters.
00:36:52Well, so does, you know, using a non-secure platform to discuss actionable intelligence against our enemy
00:37:03who has anti-aircraft and anti-naval vessel capability.
00:37:10That's really important, too, and that presents a clear and present danger.
00:37:14I know that there were reports from the press that the White House said that was childish.
00:37:23That was childish that Secretary Hegseth did that.
00:37:28I agree with that assessment.
00:37:30I think it was totally immature, and it demonstrates an unfitness and a lack of seriousness
00:37:36about protecting our sons and daughters in uniform.
00:37:42You know, we all nominate young men and women from our district to the military academy at West Point
00:37:51and to the naval academy, and dear God, you can't, you know, put a family in that position,
00:37:59put one of our best and brightest in that position,
00:38:01and then leak information to our enemies while they're going into battle.
00:38:06Okay, so this committee, myself included, investigated an attack,
00:38:15a 2020 attack by al-Shabaab at Manda Bay in Kenya.
00:38:22That was a drone attack.
00:38:24Several recent base attacks overseas, in fact, have involved the use of drones.
00:38:28So, Admiral, how has our profile, you know, countering countermeasures against drones,
00:38:36how has that changed since those initial attacks back in 2020 that resulted in U.S. casualties?
00:38:45Yeah, so since that time, we fielded a number of new systems across a variety of the spectrum,
00:38:52electromagnetic as well as electro-optical and infrared sensors to build our domain awareness.
00:38:58We've also fielded a number of kinetic systems that shoot interceptors or use some sort of munition,
00:39:06and they are deployed at our most vulnerable and most likely to be attacked facilities overseas.
00:39:11That is where the bulk of our counter-UAS capability is actually located, is overseas,
00:39:16and hence the problem here in the homeland is we have very limited and sparse and distributed capability
00:39:23across, you know, the multitude of installations we have.
00:39:27Thank you, Admiral.
00:39:28Thank you for your courtesy, Mr. Chairman.
00:39:29I yield back.
00:39:31I now recognize the gentleman from Arizona, Mr. Biggs, for five minutes.
00:39:35Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
00:39:36I just want to briefly comment about the previous questioner.
00:39:39Once again, going with the woke media story and not bothering to mention the success of the strikes
00:39:49which restored freedom of navigation, protected shipping lanes, kept Americans safe,
00:39:54nor do you bother to mention that the encrypted service that was being used was one recommended
00:40:01by the previous administration, DHS guidance.
00:40:05But my questions with regard to this topic is for both of you, and you can just – this is the context.
00:40:16So can we – do we have the technology to discover that there is UAVs in the neighborhood of our bases?
00:40:30Yes, Congressman, we do.
00:40:32Okay, and can we track – if a UAV is there, can we track it?
00:40:37We have the technology to track it?
00:40:42Yes, Congressman.
00:40:43Okay, and then you could interdict it if you chose to at every base?
00:40:48We have different options for interdiction, Congressman, across a spectrum for the commander to use their best judgment.
00:40:55But you could interdict if you chose, if you so chose, and you have authorities under 130-I, perhaps, depending on the commanding chain there, right?
00:41:07I mean, you could make that point, right?
00:41:10Depending upon the installation, whether it's a covered installation, Congressman, you would have the 130-I additional authorities.
00:41:16But as the Admiral has said, there is always the ability to respond if there's hostile intent for that base commander.
00:41:23But you have to determine hostile intent, and that's the problem, right?
00:41:27Admiral Spadaro, could you explain how unauthorized drone activity, even when it's caused by recreational or commercial users, diverts critical security resources away from responding to legitimate national security threats, please?
00:41:38Yes, Congressman, thank you for your question.
00:41:40If we go back to New Jersey and, you know, that activity, once the FAA put the temporary flight restrictions in place, and there was, you know, very broad and comprehensive coverage of that by the media, many of you spoke about it, many of the members of Congress talked about the anxiety that was building in the community due to the high level of sightings.
00:42:00Once that word got out, that public messaging about responsible drone use, once the word got out about the flight restrictions, we saw a rapid decline in the number of sightings.
00:42:11The drone activity essentially went away.
00:42:14And we don't want it to get to the point we have to do that every time.
00:42:17If we can message to the public that responsible commercial and recreational application of your drone is an imperative to prevent diverting our attention and our resources, both from investment, training, and response, we're going to be better at defending the homeland.
00:42:33But if we have to continually be aware of negligent drones flying into our base, it is going to divert attention.
00:42:39That's not to say that we don't need to address this threat, because as was brought up by this committee and we agree with,
00:42:45our adversary has demonstrated that they will use this type of activity for unauthorized surveillance, for espionage.
00:42:53Yeah, and let's add to that for a second.
00:42:55And that is the coupling of AI, which is moving rapidly forward and providing autonomous navigation, obstacle avoidance, deep learning, computer vision, easier to become weaponized, real-time image recognition, target identification.
00:43:14So I would like briefly, if you could, either one of you want to talk about the threat of AI going to, coupled with drone technology, to become an increasing, actually exponentially increased threat to our national security.
00:43:34Congressman, Congressman, it's a great question.
00:43:40Thank you for that.
00:43:42On the policy side, we need to make sure that our regulations internally at the DOD are streamlined to the extent that we stay at pace with the threat that we face outside the fence line of our installations.
00:43:54We need to make sure that we are giving the commanders on the ground clarity on what they have for authority and providing them the capabilities to counter those threats.
00:44:02Now, I think the Admiral can speak better as far as what is actually being developed at this time and how far ahead we are in counter-UAS technologies.
00:44:11But as far as the policy purview is concerned, I know from the Secretary of Defense front office down, we need to give the warfighter every capability they need to keep our service members safe.
00:44:24I know that I'm not going to have time to hear your answer, but with regard to the policy, I would ask that you work with the chairman of the subcommittee on policies that need to be rewritten, perhaps, through legislation that we can do to facilitate defending against this combination of AI and drone technology, which is advancing very rapidly.
00:44:47Mr. Chairman, to that extent, I have some unanimous consent request, if possible.
00:44:55Yes.
00:44:55The first one is autonomous ascent, how AI is reshaping the future of the UAV industry.
00:45:01Another piece, mystery drones swarmed a U.S. military base for 17 days.
00:45:06The next one, what we know about the Langley Air Force base drone incident.
00:45:11Without objection, so ordered.
00:45:12Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
00:45:13I now recognize the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Cloud, for five minutes.
00:45:17Thank you, Chairman.
00:45:19Thank you for bringing up this very important topic that's very timely.
00:45:23And thank you.
00:45:24Thank you, Admiral, especially for your service and those in uniform behind you for what you do to protect and serve our country.
00:45:32It occurs to me that we're discussing this issue, but it seems to me like it's as much a system of some of the bigger issues we've seen at the Pentagon
00:45:40in regarding our stance just on the world stage in the sense that, you know, I wish we were talking today about how advanced we are
00:45:52and how forward thinking we've thought about this and that we've invested in these new technologies
00:45:57and that we're leading the world in it and when we look at drones and drone incursions.
00:46:04But yet, for me, you know, I've considered that funding our defense is our number one constitutional duty in Congress.
00:46:11My biggest concerns have been that sometimes we are funding legacy systems that are outdated as opposed to investing into where the puck is going, so to speak.
00:46:23And while the funding for this is in lots of different buckets, my analysis, looking through a bunch of this,
00:46:32it seems like we're spending about $22 billion-ish in the last budget on fighter jets
00:46:39and maybe a billion dollars on drone and counter-drone technology together.
00:46:46It may be off a bit because, again, it's in a lot of different pockets.
00:46:50But it's that that concerns me in the sense of, you know, we're talking about military incursions over our base
00:46:56and we're talking about one drone coming and what we can or can't do about it.
00:47:00I think from the American taxpayer who's sitting at home going,
00:47:04we're spending $800 billion roughly on defense and we can't shoot a drone down,
00:47:11it's just a frustrating experience because we want to think that we can do that.
00:47:14So, as has been mentioned, us needing to do our job to make sure that you have the capabilities to do it.
00:47:22But I would also wonder how much of this is a little bit of a reactive stance in command,
00:47:29being more concerned about CYA, so to speak, as opposed to protecting the assets and the intelligence
00:47:36and the information that is available on that base.
00:47:41You mentioned that you recently developed the SOP, I guess about a month ago.
00:47:48That was news to me.
00:47:50Could we get a copy of that sent to this committee?
00:47:56Yes, sir.
00:47:57I don't see a problem with that.
00:47:58I'll coordinate with Commander U.S. Northern Command.
00:48:00Okay, that would be much appreciated.
00:48:05And, you know, we all remember the, what I would call Biden's balloon blunder,
00:48:11where we had this balloon go across.
00:48:13We sat here and watched it for days.
00:48:16I went to a meteorologist at one of the local news stations,
00:48:20and he was tracking it and predicting where it was going to go,
00:48:23and yet we were watching it go over bases and not doing anything about it.
00:48:28How much is this is just not the will to act versus legitimately you being prohibited legally from doing things?
00:48:42There's a difference between not having a clear authority and being prohibited from doing something,
00:48:46I guess is what I'm trying to drill down.
00:48:48Yes, Congressman, that's a great question.
00:48:49For us on the policy side, we seek to clarify the authorities for base commanders
00:48:54so that they understand exactly what they are able to do.
00:48:58And as you pointed out, sometimes there may be a little bit confusion
00:49:02because of how the language is given out or guidance is pushed down to the lower levels.
00:49:09During our review of counter-UAS policies as prescribed in Section 925 of the FY25 NDA,
00:49:17we've gone back and we've reviewed all of our counter-UAS documentation.
00:49:22For example, Section 130I, it was at about 130 pages.
00:49:26We've cut that down to 20 pages now.
00:49:29So we're looking to streamline our processes as much as possible
00:49:32so commanders understand what they have for authorities.
00:49:36That's certainly very helpful.
00:49:37And I guess, you know, if I could convey kind of the angst to the American people,
00:49:41we're looking at this and thinking, okay, there's drone incursion into the United States.
00:49:47You know, there's bad actors within our borders now who have the ability to even attack infrastructure.
00:49:52I mean, we're talking military bases, but it could be electric power lines,
00:49:55it could be pipelines, it could be anything at this point.
00:49:58And we seem very, like we're approaching this from a very bureaucratic standpoint
00:50:02as opposed to something that literally could be a problem next week.
00:50:07And I'm wondering what we can do and what we can help you do
00:50:12in the sense of the sense of urgency that could be needed.
00:50:16You know, we, again, we have bad actors even at state level within our borders
00:50:22because, you know, we had open borders for the last four years.
00:50:25So the terrorist activity that's now in our country, bad actors from other states
00:50:31that don't have the best interest of our country in mind are here with this kind of capability.
00:50:38And what can we do to speed up this process so that it's handled with the urgency
00:50:42as opposed to kind of like this curious bureaucratic question that needs to be resolved?
00:50:51That's a question.
00:50:52What can we do to speed it up?
00:50:54Both from DOD and from Congress's standpoint to support what you need.
00:50:59Thank you for the question, Congressman.
00:51:01We have a legislative proposal working through the Pentagon right now
00:51:04focused on three areas where we could improve Section 130I.
00:51:09In the Department's opinion, we don't want this provision to sunset.
00:51:13We want to make sure that the authorities continue forward.
00:51:16There is an expiration date on 130I authorities next year.
00:51:19We also want to expand the locations and missions covered under 130I.
00:51:25As we've discussed today, the bases are not all covered.
00:51:31Not all installations qualify as one of the nine mission areas under 130I.
00:51:36So we'd like to expand that to cover all installations.
00:51:40And then we'd also like to facilitate data sharing because right now data sharing from the DOD side is limited only in the pursuit of a legal case against a particular individual or group.
00:51:54We're not able to share data with our interagency partners to improve our tactics, techniques, or procedures.
00:52:01And to your point, Congressman, earlier about driving cost efficiencies, being able to share data to produce better technology would help us be more efficient with taxpayer money.
00:52:11Thank you for that.
00:52:12The gentleman's time has expired.
00:52:14Chair now recognizes the general lady from Florida, Ms. Luna, for five minutes.
00:52:18Thank you, Chairman.
00:52:19Here's what every American needs to know that's watching this currently.
00:52:22In 2024 alone, 350 drones were detected flying over our military installations, over 100 to be exact.
00:52:29And that came straight out of the mouth of General Gregory Gillett, commander of NORAD and U.S. Northern Command.
00:52:35These were not just toys.
00:52:36These were intelligence gathering, signal jamming, and potentially weaponized drones.
00:52:40These incursions happened while the Biden administration sat on their hands, allowing bureaucracy and interagency dysfunction to run the show.
00:52:48I see a lot of military here right now.
00:52:50You guys all know that bureaucracy many times can be our worst enemy.
00:52:54Now that President Trump is back in office, thank God, we finally have strong leadership again.
00:52:58But cleaning up Biden's national security blunder is no small task.
00:53:02Our military installations are still extremely vulnerable.
00:53:04As hearing, just sitting here from other, some of my colleagues, we have the CCP, Iranian proxies, Mexican cartels, they all know this.
00:53:13We are here today to fix that.
00:53:15And let me be crystal clear, as I'm sure many of you would agree.
00:53:18If you are flying unauthorized drones over military installations, you should expect it to be shot down.
00:53:25Don't expect Uncle Sam to pay for it either.
00:53:27My opinion is play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
00:53:31Now, Admiral Spendrow, I've heard directly from General Gillett, in February, 350 drones, incursions, over 100 military installations in one year.
00:53:40I know that this is not your fault directly, but this is a massive security gap and an utter failure.
00:53:45Under current authorities, what is preventing base commanders from neutralizing these immediately, in my opinion, going out there with a shotgun and shooting these things down?
00:53:52Well, thank you, ma'am, for the question.
00:53:57I wish it were as simple as shooting it with a shotgun, but it's not.
00:54:01Depending on elevation.
00:54:03But what's stopping it?
00:54:04Is it still the bureaucratic red tape and sign-offs?
00:54:06Because, in my opinion, if you're flying something like this that can collect jam communications, maybe carry explosives, collect surveillance on classified systems, I don't think that you should have to be required to make a phone call.
00:54:16I think that if you see it, you should shoot it down.
00:54:18Yes, under 130i, unauthorized surveillance would meet the standard for engagement.
00:54:24If it were interfering with your operations, it would meet the standard for engagement.
00:54:28If you're not at 130i, then, again, back to the rules of engagement and establishing hostile intent or hostile act.
00:54:35But you may get there.
00:54:36So just the presence of that drone over your base may meet hostile intent or hostile act.
00:54:42There is not a set of circumstances, I can tell you, in every case, and go down a checklist, okay, you've met it, go ahead and shoot.
00:54:49Sir, I mean, I think you might agree, if you are flying a drone in any capacity, I don't care if it's civilian or not, over military installation, I don't even think you should have to go to a checklist.
00:54:57I think that it should automatically be taken down.
00:54:59Yeah, and that's the preference to invoke 130i is to relieve that burden because we do agree that unauthorized access to our bases poses a threat.
00:55:09Even if there aren't sensitive activities, it does provide surveillance of our forced posture, our weak points, our vulnerabilities, you know, descriptions, geographic details of the base.
00:55:19All of the information, right?
00:55:20They can gather intelligence piece by piece by any means necessary.
00:55:25So we do want 130i protection because we'd like to relieve that burden.
00:55:30Now, engagement still needs to meet the standard, the responsible standard.
00:55:34You have to do a collateral damage assessment before you can engage anyone.
00:55:37Well, I have a feeling with this administration and the members on this panel, I think that you'll probably get there.
00:55:43So help is on the way in that regard.
00:55:46Mr. Dittleson, hopefully I said that okay.
00:55:49Do you believe that foreign adversaries like China and Iran exploit the jurisdictional chaos under the previous administration to increase their drone activity over U.S. territories?
00:55:58Yes, Congresswoman.
00:55:59I think our adversaries take advantage of every weakness that we have in our system, and they're constantly probing, trying to find an entry point.
00:56:07Okay.
00:56:08Well, let me just be crystal clear for the record.
00:56:10If you fly a drone over an American military base, it should be blown out of the sky.
00:56:15I don't think that this is a controversial perspective to have.
00:56:18No phone calls, no paperwork, no permission slips.
00:56:21But under the Biden message, I think it was more or less the message of fly wherever you want.
00:56:25We'll kind of deal with it later.
00:56:26But be crystal clear, under this administration, the message is fa-fo.
00:56:30For decorum sakes, we won't interpret that, but just mess around and find out.
00:56:33You guys all know what that means.
00:56:35We have the technology.
00:56:36We have the capability.
00:56:37But what we lacked up until now is the courage to act without apology.
00:56:43This isn't about drones.
00:56:44It's about deterrence.
00:56:45It's about restoring the kind of unapologetic strength that keeps our enemies at bay and our warfighters safe.
00:56:50I yield my time.
00:56:51Thank you guys so much for being here today.
00:56:52You guys look great in uniform, and you do too, ladies.
00:56:56In closing, I want to thank our witnesses once again for their testimony today.
00:57:00I now yield to Ranking Member Supermanium for closing remarks.
00:57:05Thank you, Mr. Chair.
00:57:06I think, let's keep it brief, that I think we have some good ideas that we can maybe turn into legislation.
00:57:13And we can hopefully make sure that we empower bases to both have the right technologies to address this,
00:57:23as well as to make sure more military installations are covered under statute, potentially.
00:57:29Make sure there's better coordination with state, local, and federal.
00:57:33And make sure that overall we have a workforce and the capacity to be able to address these challenges.
00:57:39So I'm glad we are all on the same page on that front, and I look forward to working on this together.
00:57:46I yield back.
00:57:47I now recognize myself for closing remarks.
00:57:49It seems that we're a bit paralyzed here in Congress to deal with emerging technology.
00:57:56I've been working on cybersecurity legislation for the last six-plus years,
00:58:00and it has to go through the bill that we need.
00:58:04A comprehensive bill would have to go through at least 10, maybe more, committees of jurisdiction to get it right in the House
00:58:13and probably another five-plus in the Senate.
00:58:16And we are just unable to do what we need to do to address real national security issues in the realm of cybersecurity.
00:58:24And I fear that it's going to take some tragedy to cause us to act in that capacity on cybersecurity.
00:58:34I don't think drones are much different, both because of the complexity, the challenges that we face from a legislative perspective,
00:58:41whether it is authorizing and appropriating the money to purchase the necessary technology to monitor,
00:58:49to then engage with and disarm drones that are posing a threat,
00:58:56or whether it's the authority side to address the legal concerns that are very real.
00:59:03And it's probably not going to get done in one bill.
00:59:06It's going to probably be a number of bills, and, you know, there's going to be a lot of interest surrounding how we do it.
00:59:13You know, as I think about this issue, the Chinese New Year drone was one of the most amazing things I've ever seen,
00:59:24and it also was very troubling.
00:59:26That display of, I mean, I guess it was an AI-enabled drone swarm that was basically providing entertainment.
00:59:34But while it was very entertaining, it's also terrifying.
00:59:38And I think that the capabilities of our adversaries and seeing how war has evolved in Ukraine
00:59:46and how the Russians and the Ukraine military are largely relying on drones.
00:59:53I mean, there's a huge portion of that conflict is being used as technology as opposed to traditional warfare.
01:00:03So we've got to get moving on this.
01:00:05We have to enhance our capacity.
01:00:08We have to – Congress has to act, but a lot of this is the private sector getting up to speed.
01:00:14A lot of this is our Defense Department telling us exactly what they need.
01:00:20And we don't have time to waste.
01:00:24We've spent enormous amounts of resources to make sure that we have a 24-7, 365 air alert mission for fighter jets to be deployed.
01:00:34And I'm not sure how good that capacity is right now considering that a couple dozen drones could severely impede our ability to get jets off the ground.
01:00:44So, I mean, this is a huge, huge challenge.
01:00:47And we need to act before it is too late.
01:00:51I appreciate you all taking the time to come here today.
01:00:54It seems that we are moving in the right direction.
01:00:56And I appreciate your work to help get us where we need to be.
01:01:02And I look forward to working with my friend, the ranking member, to craft some legislation.
01:01:08And I will – with that, I will yield back.
01:01:10Thank you again for being here today.
01:01:12Without objection, all members have five legislative days within which to submit materials and additional written questions for the witnesses, which will be forwarded to the witnesses.
01:01:20If there is no further business without objection, the subcommittee stands adjourned.