David Attenborough ‘Ocean’ directors reveal what it’s like to work with 99-year-old broadcasting legend Source: The Independent
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00:00Did you immediately have a vision of where you wanted to film this project or did anything
00:07change throughout the process like did for example like did the heat wave inspire you to
00:13change the direction where it was going to go? Keith do you want to start with that one? Yeah I
00:19think so when we kicked off the film because it was really so the big blocks were so kind of clear
00:29so in the act one we knew we needed to do an open ocean show sequence we knew we needed to do
00:36coastal seas we used to coral reefs and so on so forth so we we pretty much quickly blocked out
00:42the most the places where we thought we could get the best success rate for the amount of money we
00:51had which is always the natural history equation and I think you know we always knew that we needed
00:58to a section on destruction I think we were pretty clear that that would include bottom trawling
01:04we things like being able to go down to Antarctica came up as an opportunity so so that was just a
01:11kind of boost so I think a few things we we knew what all the blocks were but we we we sort of
01:19hunted around in some cases for the best possible examples and some of those came later in in the
01:28process but it's but actually for a natural history for it was always very script driven you know it's
01:36it's a an authored piece by David so so it was always you know a lot of times when we make a wildlife film
01:42we think oh well let's go after the Serengeti and you know let's see what happens this was
01:48absolutely not none of that you know let's get we need to do boom boom boom boom boom boom so follow
01:54yeah really dry there was with the the one difference that was was the heat wave um you mentioned that
02:01that we knew we wanted to film coral bleaching that wasn't a surprise I think what we weren't necessarily
02:07expecting or nobody was fully expecting was the scale of that ocean heat wave um so we ended up getting
02:12a few extra shoots so we could legitimately show that heat wave sort of effectively sweeping across
02:17the world and this and and get get that impression of scale because otherwise there's a risk that one
02:22bleached reef looks like you know is shown in isolation isn't as powerful as being able to say okay this was
02:28filmed in the Caribbean this was filmed in the Indian Ocean and you get that sense of what can happen
02:33over a year so that was that was somewhere where yeah based on what actually happened in the world
02:38yeah I did I did wonder whether it was you know I do feel like it showed I mean it was it was just
02:44harrowing like I mean I don't mean to be rude like by saying that but I guess it is you know it's the
02:51intention of showing how how awful some of the treatment of the ocean is so filming the biggest mass
02:58coral bleaching event in history does seeing harrowing events like this have an impact on you as a filmmaker
03:06and if so what yeah yeah well you got it no it it is I mean we all got into this business to
03:16to celebrate nature and to enjoy it and and um I think you know I've been in the business quite a long
03:23time and and seeing places being degraded um year on year when you might as well knew them in the 80s or
03:31or whatever uh is always sour and depressing but weighed against that of the places actually that
03:39have come back and and and are are looking really really exciting and and and for me personally the
03:46biggest comeback of all is the whale story and same for David we always knew that we wanted to tell
03:54that story because you know I was as I was a zoology student in the 70s and I thought they were all gone
04:00and and then this miraculous thing happened when a few a few guys got together in a room and signed a
04:07piece of paper and banned whaling and boom and I've seen sites that I never ever in my wildest imagination
04:15you know as a student could have dreamed I'd ever seen because of that one act of humanity to ban
04:22whaling and that really inspires the whole thing now with what can happen to the rest of nations
04:28because the fishing story is very similar to the whaling story just quickly on the on the fishing
04:35story um on a slightly less positive note um I personally had quite an emotional reaction to
04:42the film um the shots of the fish being caught up in the destruction from the bottom trawling and then
04:48being thrown away I just immediately started sobbing um and it made me rethink entirely whether
04:55I should be eating fish and if so where from um what do you hope viewers will take away from seeing
05:02those sorts of scenes up close for the first time you know people who might not necessarily know that
05:06this is going on this this is how we get our fish on our on our tables um well we we hope to sort of do
05:14two things simultaneously so um I think most people will have a similar reaction to you certainly we
05:19did because we've never seen it before um and uh that sort of shock of seeing how destructive certain
05:26fishing methods can be is is is pretty harrowing um and hopefully that because it's been out of sight
05:32it's therefore somewhat out of mind people don't see that destruction in the way maybe they do it
05:36the rainforest being clear cut or whatever they just don't realize that this is not only normal it's
05:42actually almost encouraged I mean the people we filmed you know nobody in that film is breaking
05:47the law um that's not this is allowed um sometimes even encouraged um the but the flip side is it was
05:55really important to us because I don't think anybody involved in this film is anti-fishing or even
05:59thinks that as a concept eating fish is particularly a bad idea the problem is the way certain types of
06:05fishing happens which is why we really wanted the solution stories so the whole sort of last third of the
06:10film that's much more positive and uplifting I mean pretty much all of that is based around fishing
06:15communities those are communities who have realized that the fish stocks were being damaged by lots of
06:21things but damaging fishing methods in particular and did something about it and now catch fish and
06:26have a much healthier marine environment simultaneously so it was really important we didn't make an
06:33anti-fishing film because I didn't think we any of us felt that was the thing it was that there are
06:38certain types of fishing methods that are just so destructive um and a lack of protection that
06:43would enable fish stocks to recover that we wanted to get across but it it doesn't have to be a fight
06:48between fishing and conservation the win-win actually would be more fish overall and there's and there's
06:54good ways of doing that and we hope the last third of the film showed that yeah and on a similar
06:59no no it obviously centers um local stories as well um how did you set out to which how did you set
07:06out to approach those communities well actually our fellow director um tabie nolan who who um i think
07:16it was originally tabie's sort of genius idea idea to sort of get these voices from the communities and
07:23and and um he he really wanted to tell the big hawaiian story uh was was was the sort of first first first
07:32first one and and um and that's where he set up this he got this incredible spokes lady nilani um to to
07:43to tell that story and and then when we actually came to do the um the sort of scallop dredging the
07:51the island of aaron it actually has been one of the places where there's been a a proper marine protected
07:57area created as a result of the destruction that happened there and the person featured there is um the
08:05uncle of our cinematographer um doug anderson and and and doug's just i was knowing him in this story
08:13so so that was a kind of a passionate one and and then once you've got that idea it kind of built to
08:18be able to actually do the same in liberia and the same in this in the states and in the in the channel
08:24islands i don't know colin you might know more about it as i say one of the good things about it is i
08:30think that you've then got a situation where david obviously you see him on location a lot
08:35but all the locations david was in were in the uk which obviously his home where he where he grew
08:39up um often not that far from where he lives and um so it's quite nice that he can be telling the
08:45story about his country and what's happening in the waters of his country but other people are telling
08:49the story of what's happening in their country and it makes it feel like a much more genuinely global
08:54peace um and i think that's what he really hopes is that you got a genuine voice from the places we
09:00were featuring and david links it all together um but really when he's talking he's often talking
09:06about what he's personally witnessed rather than speaking on behalf of another community
09:11and was there a conversation between um both of you and david about um centering different stories
09:17as well as his in the uk um yeah i mean there was conversations about literally every part of this
09:24film so um no david i mean sort of anybody that's worked with david knows he's extremely hands-on and
09:30so right from the very first idea keith had the first discussion about the film with and then then
09:35then i joined in as well i mean david's been involved in every bit of this so yeah he he loved he
09:41loved the way it all came together and he loved hearing other people's stories and um was involved in
09:45everything from writing the script recording the scripts obviously filming all the pieces but um
09:50yeah he's very very much involved in it he's such a he's an amazing broadcaster in the in the broader
09:58sense the world and and um his his judgment on because he's done every bit of telly you know in his
10:04time with the bbc you know control the bbc he he's so broad in his understanding of the media and how it kind of
10:14works just he's just a fantastic kind of editorial chief guy to bounce ideas off and and his judgment
10:23is always right about what to go for and you know where the story lies is uh yeah he's a big big editorial
10:32help to the whole process brilliant just appearing you know and doing doing his pieces yeah and he
10:40always has been you know ever since and am i right in thinking you've worked with him since the 80s is
10:47that correct i i have yeah i met him in um 82 which probably seems quite a long time ago has anything
10:55changed between you two since then oh well well yeah no well so he i met him he just finished his
11:02first landmark series life on earth but it was in the bb it was in the bbc and and really just a few
11:09years before that i mean they wanted him to be the director general of the bbc he never wanted to but
11:14he was in charge of all of television so he was this huge figure in the bbc so it was you know it was
11:21it's and he's a powerful personality you know he he's he's he david i always say every every aspect
11:30of him is kind of turned up to sort of plus five um so so yeah no i remember being utterly terrified
11:37the first time i met david um but you know that then you you see the that you know the multifaceted
11:44side side side side of him and but what's strange is that he was in his 50s then um probably late 50s
11:52and i was 22 or something stupid and he seems to have stopped still and and and and stayed in his 50s
12:01yeah i've kind of shot past him still seems like the same guy what's uh what's what's your favorite
12:09thing about the way this is a question for either of you um what's your favorite thing about the way
12:14that sir david approaches his documentaries storytelling yeah yeah he's a he's a brilliant
12:21brilliant storyteller and and um he's probably one of one of the best you know whether he's whether it's
12:30on the written page or um on the screen um yeah he's just the ultimate storyteller well and what's
12:39brilliant about the way he does it is that he's got such a deep understanding of science he's got
12:43he's an incredibly clever guy clever incredibly well read but he manages to tell those stories in a way
12:49that anyone can engage with he doesn't dumb them down or simplify them he's just got a way of telling
12:54them that it means if you're a you know eight year old kid interested in the natural world or you're
12:59a super qualified marine biologist you still engage with the story and that's a real art form and he
13:04makes it look easy and it really isn't um and uh so yeah incredible talent yeah i just i've i'm
13:11obviously a big fan having uh requested to interview you both about it yeah i just think there's something
13:17really special about the way that he speaks to it everybody um you know different demographics different
13:22age groups uh uh not to not to be too um i don't want to be too dramatic but uh what do you think
13:31that sir david's lasting legacy will be from his work i i mean from my point of view
13:39i i think i think his lasting legacy is going to be the guy who made global wildlife and global
13:50conservation globally known i i i think he's going to end up being this kind of figure who
13:57who really brought the world together around the wonder of the natural world but also the need to
14:06protect it and i don't think there's ever going to be any other single individual who's going to
14:11match that i don't know colin if you agree with that no i definitely agree with that and i think
14:17you've got people often ask things like who's going to be the next david attenborough and of course
14:22you can't be because the unique experience of he had decades of working in television as
14:28keith talks about and expertise he had a real deep understanding of science and exploration
14:33and he put all of that into you know 70 years of broadcasting including some of easily the best
14:39programs ever made um uh you know go right back to life on earth and and onwards and how you get that
14:45degree of expertise and trust in any one person is a combination of an extraordinary man and
14:50extraordinary like circumstances of his life um sort of brought together so i think he's a one-off
14:56absolute one-off yeah i completely agree um colin what can you tell us about your upcoming book
15:03with david yeah so it's also about the ocean uh although it's uh it's sort of a different take
15:09than the film in the sense that um but it came from when we were making the film we had a bit of
15:14discussions thinking there's quite a lot of stuff that we've read quite a lot of science different things
15:18that aren't don't necessarily fit well with the idea of filming but would make brilliant stories
15:23in a book and um we came up with the idea of how to tell the story of the ocean in the last hundred
15:28years of discovery all through stories it sort of goes back to that piece we're talking about a minute
15:32ago you're real storytelling so we tell the stories of the people that did these great scientific
15:37discoveries these incredible deep sea dives and the species they came up they they they discovered
15:43tell the stories of some of the filming that david's done in the ocean across his lifetime we tell the
15:47stories of the people and the great conservation successes in the ocean so it's all very very
15:52very story-led and again the idea was that although it is based on a lot of deep science that anyone can
15:59pick it up regardless of their background regardless of whether they've ever thought about marine biology
16:03or they just want to know about cool species or a great adventure or have some hope about what good
16:09things can happen in the world that they can get something out of this book so it's very much a story-led
16:14book really about all aspects of the ocean and how it fits together great and remind me when's that
16:19coming out it's coming out may 8th uh oh fantastic great um and it's got some lovely photos including
16:29some from uh keith's son um so um he's a he's a great um ocean filmmaker in his own right oh fantastic
16:38oh i can't wait to read i mean obviously i've watched it so i can't wait to it'll be nice to pair the
16:42both of them together i'm aware i'm a little bit pushed for time um so i won't keep you too much
16:47long because i'm where you've probably got a full day of this and tomorrow as well i think um what
16:52would you just very quickly what would you like the lasting message of this film to be both of you
16:59protect the ocean the the there's a conservation is really difficult globally you know especially on
17:06land uh and the but the ability to make a huge quick change to our world the one thing we can do
17:17which is a big quick change which will benefit the whole of humanity massively is just implement what
17:23the un have said they want to do which is protect 30 of the ocean the the it'll be it'll be like what
17:31what happened with the whale story but just hundreds of thousand times better because it it just enhances
17:38everything and it'll absolutely really help the climate story been listening to all this stuff on
17:46the news today about tony blair and net zero and what have you why on earth are they not thinking about
17:53ocean protection as a very very simple way to capture so much more carbon because the ocean can do
18:00such a huge job especially if you don't bottom draw it um so and then but also our fisheries
18:07are in decline in recession we need growth for our fisheries and ocean protection can can do that so
18:14we hope that's the legacy is that we you know people look at the science see common sense
18:21and just do it and humanity will massively benefit massively and it's just an easy win-win
18:28a no-brainer he said it really well i'm not going to answer that
18:37but you know we can't understand why the situation where we've got right now is just so
18:45it's it's crazy uh and it makes no it makes no sense for anyone whether they be fishers or
18:53you know people living thousands of miles away from the sea it doesn't make any sense and if we can
18:59just bring sense to this and i hope this story or the film just shows people there's a simple way
19:07well i thought it was very very eye-opening both in showing the destruction and also
19:12that things can be done like it's not all not all hope is lost uh
19:18uh yeah that was that was my initial takeaway from it i really really enjoyed it do you have
19:23any more projects coming up in the future that we should know about
19:27go ahead keith well so that we we've got actually another david andrew series coming out
19:32which i think they're going to be announcing fairly fairly soon in fact probably next next week so
19:38you'll hear about that um so i think that's the next one that's more a traditional natural history show
19:48so
19:55so
19:57you
19:59you
20:01you