हर्ष कक्कड़ का कहना है, 2001 से 2014 तक आतंकवादी हमलों पर भारत की एकमात्र प्रतिक्रिया थी-'कड़ी निंदा', जो 2014 के बाद धीरे-धीरे बदल गई.
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00:00On 7th of May, India avenged Pahlgaam attack.
00:05Indian Air Force and the Indian Army has attacked nine locations in Pakistan
00:11and at least 90 terrorists were killed in this particular operation.
00:18The operation was called Sindur, Operation Sindur.
00:21And to understand more about the success of this operation,
00:25I am joined by Major General Harsha Kakkar.
00:28Sir, first of all, thank you very much for talking to ETV Bharat, sir.
00:32Tell me, sir, how do you see this particular operation, Sindur, sir?
00:38See, what actually happened was you had to retaliate after what happened.
00:44No country would accept a terror strike of this nature,
00:47especially when it targets innocent civilians and not respond.
00:52But at the same time, the response has to be calibrated.
00:56It has to be at a time and place of your choosing
01:00and once you're fully prepared for the response.
01:04So the government of India took time, played its games,
01:08got its cards in order, got everything set on the manner it's supposed to be.
01:13A major factor is a response of this nature has to be short,
01:19has to be swift and has to be devastating.
01:23You cannot have collateral damage because that automatically is an error
01:28which the world would look upon.
01:30So everything has to be precise and that takes time,
01:34that takes planning and that takes the right choice of weapons which you need to use.
01:42So this was a combined operation involving the Army and the Air Force.
01:47The Air Force using a multitude of aircraft employing its latest technology weaponry,
01:56all of which are precision guided and aim to hit the target exactly as when needed.
02:04The Army uses Excalibur as also as loitering munitions,
02:08again targeting specific camps and specific huts.
02:14So this operation launched, took just about 25 minutes,
02:2024 missiles were fired.
02:23You got the hits that you wanted and that was the end.
02:26The moment the operation finished, the government of India issued a statement.
02:31It was calibrated.
02:33It was aimed for what it was and only terrorist camps have been touched.
02:37There has been not a single Pakistan Army camp which has been engaged
02:42and therefore we now say that from our side the operations are over.
02:47So we have also seen that when this particular operation was going on,
02:55we have seen it in the past also, the kind of operation,
02:59the URI attack and the other different surgical strikes done by the Indians' armed forces.
03:05How different if you compare this particular Operation Sindhu with the previous surgical strikes,
03:14what is the difference you are finding this time?
03:17See, when you did, when URI happened, that was the first reaction.
03:21Okay, let's go back a little bit more to make it clearer.
03:24Since 2001 till about 2014, the only response of the government of India to terrorist strikes was Kadi Ninda.
03:35You wanted the world to apply pressure on Park to pull back from terrorism.
03:39What was the end result?
03:42You had a multitude of strikes coming in.
03:45You had Mumbai, you had three or four different incidents in Mumbai.
03:50You've had blasts in Delhi.
03:51You've had them in Nagarota and Punj.
03:54I mean, you've had them all over.
03:56But every time there were large casualties, we would comment, we would criticize and not act.
04:01And that only emboldened Park.
04:05Second, the world scenario was vastly different.
04:07The U.S. was in Afghanistan.
04:10That secured Pakistan's Western border.
04:13They needed Karachi port.
04:16They needed Pakistan's airspace.
04:18So what was it?
04:19It was a benefit to Pakistan.
04:21So they could exploit that to enhance terrorism.
04:24With the current government, the first incident that took place was Uri.
04:30India responded by a cross-border strike employing its special forces.
04:36You had a large number of terrorists killed.
04:39You created the impact.
04:41For three years, the impact remained.
04:45Though Pakistan hid the losses, they were able to cover the losses.
04:50After all, they were terrorists who had no value.
04:52So we did not have the clear footage to project what we had done.
05:00After the Fulwama incident, we launched the Balakot strike.
05:04Once again, you achieved what you wanted to.
05:08But for some reason, we didn't go in for the post-strike damage assessment.
05:14They were able to get away claiming it was a madrasa and there were a few civilians who were killed.
05:19But this time, you wanted to send a message not only to Pakistan, to critics within, as also the world that India is now come of age when it will, it can do a precision strike on a specific terrorist target, take out its objectives without any collateral damage.
05:41This time, if you look at the press conference that took place yesterday, for every target, you had the images and you had a video image of the strike happening.
05:52So now, there is no way that any of these can be said to have either not been destroyed or they were not terrorist targets.
06:02So you actually projected it.
06:04So now this difference between the earlier strikes and now evidently says that now we've displayed there were terrorist targets, we've proved to you there were terrorist targets and we've destroyed the terrorist targets.
06:20Now you can claim what you have.
06:50the political implications, you know, the military and the diplomatical implications of this particular operation, sir.
06:56See, you've got to realize that this is part of the overall government strategy.
07:00The government strategy began with pulling back from the IWT, looking to isolate Park, economically trying to hit Park by stopping the flow of APIs for pharmaceuticals,
07:15as also the flow of drugs in India, and now you came down to this military strike was essential to convey a message that we will not be cowed down.
07:25While you're launching other measures, a military measure was very essential.
07:30Secondly, the measure was to confirm or to tell them that we can do far more damage than what we've done.
07:40This is possibly a trailer.
07:42If you'd like to see it as a trailer, then stick where you are.
07:47If you'd like to see an expansion, we're willing to expand, mainly because we've got the economy, we've got the reserves of ammunition, of oil, of everything, which Park doesn't have.
08:00Do we have enough? We have enough. Amminations? Yes, we have enough because we are looking at 10 days war on one front max.
08:10We've got enough for that. But in addition to that, we've got our oil reserves.
08:15That's something which is very essential for operations which Pakistan doesn't have.
08:20So that has an impact and that is something which will possibly cause the damage.
08:27So you were telling me about that it is a 10 day affair or a 10 day thing for India to, you know, to finish Pakistan or to, you know, to do a carpet bombing on Pakistan and get Pakistan on their knees.
08:43But we have we have one example of Russia, Ukraine war also where Ukraine thought that they can, you know, easily capture the maximum area of Ukraine and they can do it in 10 days.
08:59But we are seeing that this particular war is now going for, let's say, around two years or now, two years or so.
09:06So how do you see that if you are saying that in 10 days we can, you know, change the geography of Pakistan?
09:15Is it is it really possible, sir, because there is a geopolitical pressure also?
09:19I never said we'll change the geography in 10 days, nor did I say we'll do a carpet bombing in 10 days.
09:25I just said that you normally expect wars to end for 10 days and you cater for ammunition reserves for 10 days for all fronts.
09:33Here you're looking at a particular front. You're not looking for breaking Pakistan. We don't want to.
09:40You're not looking for, you know, running over Pakistan and making Pakistan a part of India. You don't want to.
09:48You're basically looking to convey a message. Stop supporting terrorism.
09:55You need not do it with a military ground assault. You can do it by other means. You can use missiles.
10:03So you're not looking at emptying out Pakistan or over running Pakistan. India is not interested.
10:10We're not interested in any of that. And you've got to realize that there is a certain level to a ground operation,
10:18vis-a-vis a nuclear war. So you cannot take that. What I mentioned is when it comes down to operations,
10:24you've got the reserves. You've got the availability to expand. It's something which they lack. Now that has an impact.
10:33The question is, will it go up to that? Neither side wants it. Neither side can afford it. Neither side has the economy to sustain it.
10:43India doesn't want to sustain it because it will set us back in the economy.
10:48Right. So we're not looking for it, but we're looking to tell them enough is enough. Please curtail what you're doing.
10:58Let's live as neighbors and let's both grow together. If you're not willing to do it, there will be a cost to pay.
11:08The cost would be economic. The cost would be military. The cost would be in all forms.
11:13Okay, so coming back to the nine targets. One of the target which I want to talk about is the Bahawalpur.
11:20This particular location is, I believe, 100 kilometers from the borders of India.
11:26So, I mean, the Indian air force going deep into the Pakistani territory and hitting out there.
11:34So how do you see this particular attack? Because this was very deep, if we say from the point of view of Indian side.
11:42Indian air force never had to enter to hit. The sort of missiles that you have now have got a range of 350 to 400 kilometers.
11:51So what is 100 kilometers? You fired very safely from within your own.
11:55Even the statement given by the Park foreign ministry said no aircraft entered our airspace and no Pakistan aircraft left the Pakistan airspace.
12:04We never had to enter Pakistan. Why should we? You're not coming close to 100 kilometers. You're firing in a missile which has got a range of 350 to 400 kilometers.
12:14You're firing it from well within Indian territory.
12:17But the Pakistani prime minister is saying that and he's claiming that five IAF jets were shot down in this particular operation and three of them were Rafale.
12:29He's claiming. He's claiming. I thought the Park defense minister even said on CNN that the proof is only in the, is on social media.
12:42And what is the proof on social media? Cuts from earlier Indian air crashes which have taken place as part of training.
12:51Cuts from video games? Has the Indian government admitted to a single loss? Has India ever hidden a loss?
12:58If a pilot would have died or a pilot would have been severely injured, would that thing be out in the press?
13:05And the Pakistanis are always having a history of hiding.
13:08You have to realize that since Pakistan has been hit by these terror strikes, there has to be an action to save face.
13:20You're looking at your own public, which is now looking down on their armed forces, which control the government, which control the country.
13:31And it is the same government or the same army, which has put Imran Khan, the most popular leader behind bars.
13:38How do you save face? Because you can't strike back so easily.
13:43You cannot cause a similar damage of hitting nine different targets and causing that many casualties.
13:50So what are you claiming you hit aircraft? Now the story started with two aircraft, went to three, went to four, went to five, went to six.
13:58It came back finally again to two. And the photographs, which their own channel, some of their own YouTubers have been saying that this is of a MiG-29 crash of 2019.
14:10This is this crash of 2023. This is an AI altered image. After all, had India had a loss, I wonder if we still have a record of saying that we've had a casualty and we haven't announced.
14:24So that's it. Right. So let us now talk about the intelligence factor also, because the Indian Defense Forces have a strike on these nine targets on the intel of our intelligence, you know, reports.
14:41So how do you see this, you know, this particular thing going on further because our intelligence has also done a very good job and our defense officials have also stated that in the press briefing, they have stated that the strike was limited to the terrorist infrastructures and mostly, and they have named also that these, you know, structures were related to Lashkar-e-Taiba.
15:08These structures were related to Hijab al-Mujahideen and Jaish-e-Mohmmad.
15:13You see, what happens is this, an operation of this nature requires immense coordination. I started in the beginning by explaining to you that you need the precise location. The ammunition you're using is meant for precise hits. You cannot let the ammunition and you cannot fire a general round into an area, which will have an area of, a greater circular area of probability, which would cause collateral damage.
15:45So what you are aiming for is aiming for is exactly precise. Then you need those targets where terrorists are. If it's been vacated, it's of no value. So you needed those locations where there were terrorists, where you would hit and you would get your results.
16:02And if you look at the videos that were released yesterday, you found the rounds were entering the gap in the building and destroying just the building. So you needed that sort of level. And that level comes in from a collection, from intelligence, from satellites, from ground sources who are inside park.
16:24I mean, with whom your own agents there. It's a huge combined operation, which requires immense planning down to the last millimeter coordination, because everything has to be simultaneous. You cannot have the Air Force doing an hour later the Army because everyone is prepared and everything changes.
16:46Right. So tell us more about what would be the next step by our government after this Operation Sindhu has successfully completed. And we are seeing that the Pakistan Army is also, you know, involved in shellings in the border areas. What would be our next plan of action, sir?
17:05So, currently, we have told them we are not interested in escalating further. I think as per inputs from what I read today, the two NSA's, the NSA of India and the Park NSA, who was still, who is also the DGISI, are both in touch. Foreign governments are in touch with both to de-escalate.
17:26Will we de-escalate? Will we de-escalate? Will it expand further? The ceasefire along the LSE has been lifted for the past, since Pahlgaab. Initially, it was only small arms fire. Now, it's escalated to artillery. Hopefully, it would stop there. And the rest of it would actually depend on what Pakistan does now.
17:51Is it willing for talks? Is it willing for talks? Does it pull back? Does it accept our terms? What is it looking at, is what we need.
17:59But I believe India is ready to tackle any situation, sir.
18:02You are prepared for any situation. You are prepared in any form, whether it's along the LOC, whether it's along the ground.
18:10Right. Sir, we have also seen yesterday, the Pakistan is trying to project India's action as an act of aggression and an imposition of war.
18:19Do you think that this narrative could, you know, help Islamabad garner sympathy or diplomatic support from Western nations or the international, on the international forums?
18:32They did that yesterday morning, 24 hours gone. Have you seen any support coming? Nothing.
18:39Sir, no support has come in the past 24 hours. Will anything change now? That's where we remain.
18:47And nothing has come because India had already projected as to what its intent was.
18:52Right. And it is going to hit back because of a terrorist strike.
18:56You take a similar case, actually something which you are missing out. When Hamas attacked Israel, whom did the world support?
19:03When Israel hit back, did they criticize Israel for hitting back Hamas?
19:08No. Right.
19:10So what did Jai Shankar say yesterday? That no country should be soft against terrorism.
19:18You have to hit back at terrorism. They did it. We did it. It's there.
19:22And we must appreciate the strategy of S. Jai Shankar because post-operations, the way, you know, the Indian side was connecting with the diplomats of different nations
19:34and apprising them about the objective and, you know, the outcome of Operation Sindur.
19:40This has also sent a strong message across the world that, see, this is the capability of India and this is how we used to perform the operation.
19:50India has conveyed a message. It's conveyed its intent that it will not accept terrorism.
19:57It's clearly stated that if any strike comes on us, we will hit back.
20:04It is proved to the world it will not listen to anyone when it comes down to ensuring its own national security.
20:12It will do what it's necessary. There has been no comment from the PM.
20:17The Park PM has been all over screaming and howling.
20:20The Indian PM has not made a single comment.
20:23His only address after the, after Operation Sindur was when he spoke about space.
20:31He never mentioned anything here.
20:33So he has conveyed to the world, we are doing what is essential, we will do what is necessary and we will not listen to anyone other than our own interests.
20:41And how do you see this briefing, other diplomats of different nations, Western nations or, I mean, we have also heard that, you know, the details were shared with the US also, with Russia also, with big, big nations, you know, around the world by the Indian side.
21:01So how do you see this particular strategy, sir?
21:03See, you're looking at telling them whom you hit, why you hit and what was the end result.
21:11You conveyed that clearly.
21:13Prior to Operation Sindur, after Pahal Gaam, there was also a briefing for diplomats.
21:21At that stage, you give them the proof that, yes, this is Pakistan's involvement.
21:26We are very clear and we will act.
21:28That was a warning given.
21:30How and what was never covered.
21:32Now you've conveyed to them exactly what you did, how you did and the damage you caused and you've sent a message.
21:39We are willing to step back, provided Pakistan does.
21:42Well, this will be all for today, sir.
21:45Thank you very much for talking to ETV Bharat.
21:48So for more news and update, keep watching ETV Bharat.
21:50Varad Gupta, Lucknow.
21:52and back now.
21:55All right, we got one coming in.
22:05Bye.
22:10Uh-bye.