Pakistan on Thursday escalated the tense situation by targeting civilian and military areas in India with a swarm of drones, missiles and intense artillery shelling.
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00:00Dr. Tara Kartha, terrorism security expert, someone who knows Pakistan very, very well,
00:07and we're going to cut across to her as well.
00:09We are also joined by Meer Fareed.
00:11But viewers, I want to quickly take you through the chronology.
00:14Clearly, we are up the escalation matrix with Pakistan.
00:17Pakistan once again forcing India's hand to proportionately respond, but respond aggressively.
00:23I want to take you through to what now is clearly the third chapter of Operation Sindur.
00:288.30 p.m. late last night, you had Pakistan that seemingly has now crossed a red line
00:36because Pakistan attempted to not just attack India's military installations,
00:41but also go off India's civilian installations, civilian residential areas.
00:48It began with an attempt to attack the Jammu airport, the Jammu airstrip there,
00:53along with the civilian areas, which was a combination of missiles, of drones, of fighter jets.
01:00India repelled, foiled that attack completely, viewers.
01:04What we've been given to understand that through the course of the night,
01:08three Pakistan fighter jets have been downed by India,
01:12and there have been no casualties, at least till 5.30 this morning.
01:16After that, the Jammu attack, then multiple, the entire Western Front lit up with swarm drones
01:24being sent across by Pakistan, drones, fighter jets, and missiles that Pakistan used,
01:29where Jaisalmer, Pathankot, Uddhampur, all these areas, Jalandhar,
01:36all these areas came under attack, and each of those attempts were thwarted.
01:41But this was, like I pointed out, it was that red line that Pakistan crossed.
01:46India then responded befittingly to the escalation of Pakistan,
01:51and it's important right now to underline that word, escalation by Pakistan,
01:55because India has only been responding proportionately at that.
02:00But India, though you had Pakistan which came at the Western Front, India hit hard.
02:06India went deep in, once again, for the third time there,
02:09attacking Lahore, what we've been given to understand,
02:12Lahore has been attacked, Peshawar has been attacked,
02:16Bawal Nagar, Kjant area has been attacked by India,
02:19all of this as a retaliatory measure.
02:22There was a bitter for Lalviyas, then early this morning,
02:25once again, heavy artillery shelling across the LOC from Pakistan at the Uri sector,
02:30and unfortunately, we have had one civilian who's been killed,
02:35one woman who has been killed in this heavy artillery firing,
02:40which came in at the Uri sector, and collateral to this, viewers.
02:45Ultimately, now, our citizen count goes up to 17,
02:49and India's a country which doesn't disown its fallen citizens.
02:54And we will reply befittingly at that, because we wear this grief very heavy.
03:0217 civilians right now dead, killed, in fact, by Pakistan,
03:07which is relentlessly going after civilian residential areas across the LOC
03:12by using mortar and heavy artillery shelling.
03:15After that, we've just reported there has been another drone attack in Jaisalmer.
03:20Pakistan once again tried to push drones through to Jaisalmer.
03:25These are suicide drones, but India has taken each of these drones down
03:29by our exemplary air defense systems.
03:32I want to cut across right now.
03:34We have Mir Farid who's joining us.
03:35Shivani continues to be with us.
03:38Dr. Tara Kartha, you know, she's been with us
03:40through the course of the last 48 hours analyzing the situation.
03:44Dr. Tara Kartha, it doesn't look like now Pakistan is going to de-escalate,
03:48because if Pakistan crossed that red line yesterday where it tried to go after civil
03:53installations, Pakistan is not de-escalating.
03:57India, though, hitting back hard.
04:01I think that message we've sent all along that our attacks are proportionate,
04:06our attacks are non-escalatory, that message is just not being received by these people.
04:11But then, from what I've told you on this channel from the beginning,
04:17it did seem to me that Pakistan wants you to stay engaged and perhaps go to something short of worth.
04:25It seems to me that is their objective.
04:27But Dr. Kartha, you know, Pakistan would want us to be engaged.
04:32Pakistan would want to keep this conflict brewing.
04:35The conflict is only widened now, but the hostility is reaching a crescendo.
04:39But the larger question, Dr. Tara Kartha, can Pakistan actually afford to keep it brewing?
04:45Do they have that kind of ammunition?
04:47They're going back to the IMF for more money today.
04:49Oh, yes, they are.
04:51And the thing is that, you know, the, what shall I say?
04:57Just one second.
04:59The fact is that their money from the IMF is unlikely to come, you know,
05:04because it's not a bank, it's a proper bank.
05:09He's not going to give you money to fund the war.
05:11Second is they had asked China for a 1.5 billion sort of what I would call an overdraft in financial terms,
05:21it's something else, which means they've already exhausted their 4 billion reserves.
05:25So that's why I'm saying yet they have increased their defense budget by 18%.
05:31So there is money coming in from somewhere.
05:34The point question is where it's coming from.
05:36And this, I recall that once when we looked at Pakistan's budget papers,
05:42you know, we were looking at the entire thing.
05:44And in one footnote, just one, I found military loan from China, unaccounted for.
05:52It's not to be seen anywhere in the budget.
05:54So this is, you need money to fight a war.
05:57Weapons are being given by Turkey and China.
06:00Right.
06:00So therefore, there are a lot of other actors involved in this.
06:04But so far, it seems that it's an ego trip of General Asif Munir.
06:10If that is the case, then it's extremely dangerous.
06:14When one man wants to...
06:16You're right.
06:17You know, you're right, Ms. Kartha, because, you know, we're getting a news break.
06:20And you're bang on when you say it's an ego trip of one man who is, of course, General Asif Munir.
06:26But India is hitting back, giving the message very clear.
06:30You come to our Western Front.
06:33We will go all the way to Lahore again.
06:36We will hit you where it hurts, which is Rawalpindi, the seat of Pakistan Army.
06:41We will hit you there.
06:42All right.
06:43The latest news that is also coming in.
06:45Government sources have confirmed to India today.
06:46Heavy damage has been inflicted in Lahore.
06:49Sources have told India today, multiple Pakistan cities badly damaged.
06:54India has launched counter-strikes on Pakistan late last night.
06:57India has hit Lahore, Peshawar, Bahawal Nagar, Kant late last night.
07:03Exacting, avenging the third strike by Pakistan, which really did not land because Pakistan went all in late last night from 8.30 p.m. onwards.
07:15But India repelled, foiled, thwarted each of those attempts.
07:20I want to quickly cut across to Shivani, my colleague.
07:23I want to bring her in.
07:24Shivani, you know, multiple reports coming in.
07:27You have the Indian Army issue a statement this morning that, once again, Pakistan tried to escalate the situation,
07:34trying to come after civil installations.
07:36And India has reacted, to underline the word, proportionately but aggressively.
07:45Preeti, what Indian Army says is that all these actions have been responded with force.
07:53That has a lot of meaning that, till now, we were doing it proportionately, but now we are doing it with full force.
07:59We are not only neutralizing the threats coming our way, but we are banging and we are hitting Pakistan hard in multiple locations.
08:09Along the line of control also, the ceasefire violations have been on.
08:14But this time, the shelling has been very heavy, intense and frequent from Pakistan's side,
08:20to which Indian Army is also responding with full force.
08:24That is repulsing these actions from Pakistan.
08:27Not only on the boundaries, we are getting to know that inside Pakistan, also heavy damages have been inflicted.
08:33Remember, these damages started while Operation Sindhuur was on.
08:41But yesterday morning, also, the air defense systems of Pakistan were destroyed and damaged by our missiles that went inside.
08:48And after yesterday's misadventure, that was, again, a foolish mistake by Pakistan,
08:53the Indian Armed Forces are into action, all the three services, in a coordinated action against Pakistan's misadventure.
09:02And they have inflicted heavy damages to Pakistan's military installations inside its own territory.
09:07You know, Shivani, stay with me and we are going to just take our viewers through that.
09:10Hold on to that thought, Shivani, because you just spoke of India inflicting heavy damage late last night,
09:14retaliatory in nature, responsive in nature, but very aggressive in nature, viewers.
09:19Taking you through on some of the cities that India attacked, Peshawar is one city that India hit last night,
09:26retaliating to Pakistan's attempt to attack India.
09:30Peshawar was one city.
09:32Lahore, once again.
09:33What we've been given to understand, viewers, that India has hit Lahore once again.
09:38How vulnerable Lahore is can clearly be stated,
09:42because yesterday, once again, in the afternoon when India was retaliating to Pakistan's attacks or attempts to attack 15 key military installations,
09:53India retorted early yesterday morning by attacking Lahore and destroying their ADS, their air defense system.
10:03And late last night, India once again attacked Lahore's city.
10:07So what we know right now, Peshawar, Lahore, Bahawal Nagar, we're going to take Karachi off just for now, viewers.
10:14We're going to wait for an official confirmation.
10:16If at all, Karachi was also attacked by our Indian Navy.
10:20Right now, there is no official confirmation.
10:23I want to cut across back to Dr. Karta, who's with us, along with all our reporters who've been doing a fine job, viewers.
10:29Because it's not, you know, there is this fog of war, there is so much disinformation, and one has to give it to journalists on ground who are constantly trying to sift through that disinformation and get you the facts of where they stand.
10:44It's not an easy job, but they are doing it.
10:48I want to get Dr. Karthar back into this conversation, because Dr. Karthar, you know, what's interesting right now is that they're attacking our Western France.
10:57We are going deep in, we are hitting Lahore again, we've hit Peshawar, we've hit Bahawal Nagar last night.
11:03Word came in of Karachi being hit, we are not confirming that, because we want that confirmation to come in from the Ministry of External Affairs.
11:11Because if Karachi was hit, you know, we are not confirming that, Dr. Karthar, because the Indian Navy comes in when there is a full-blown war and comes in when economic assets need to be taken down.
11:24If that has happened at all, we are saying it's not happened right now.
11:28But if and when that happens, when the Indian Navy kicks in, one, it will kick in at a time where the heat is too much at the Western Front,
11:36and India will need assistance and also open up another theatre, which will be the Indian Navy.
11:42And that will happen when big assets will be taken by the Indian Navy, economic assets of Pakistan.
11:47I just need also to congratulate you and your team, excellent reporting, hats off to your guys on the ground.
11:56And I just wanted to mention, there are multiple no-times being issued for 8th to 13th May.
12:03This is by Indian Navy and I think Pakistan Navy.
12:07That I have the control.
12:08No, both, you are right.
12:10Yeah, so there is something brewing.
12:13I think there are 83 nautical miles separate, these two fleets in the ocean, which is very, very little.
12:23So there is all you need is what, but then the, I mean, not to sort of, you know, add to a masala or something.
12:30This is something the two navies are used to.
12:32They are used to operating and shadowing each other, listening to each other.
12:36These are responsible people.
12:39And given, I have to, if you will allow me to congratulate also the Indian government.
12:46They have been so calculated in their moves.
12:49They are not letting, you know, that cry for war overwhelm the state.
12:55You know, there is generally sometimes there is a saying, you know, it starts rolling, decision making.
13:00I have seen this happen when I was in government in a different context, where you do X, then you fall.
13:05Then before you know it, you finish the end of the road.
13:07So they are not doing that.
13:09That is excellent.
13:10Dr. Karthar, what is different this time?
13:12Because one thing is very clear.
13:14Pakistan is not backing out.
13:15You know, we know that for a fact.
13:17Pakistan is not going to de-escalate.
13:19It can be an ego trip or there is a hand that is funding Pakistan.
13:23We don't want to get into conjecture, whether, you know, it's China or anybody else.
13:26We're not getting into that.
13:27But Pakistan is not looking to de-escalate if we are only going to read into the actions of Pakistan over the course of the last 24 hours.
13:34Of what they did yesterday was crossing that proverbial red line where you go after civil installations like the Jammu airport.
13:42It was thwarted.
13:43That's a side.
13:44But they did try to attempt to bomb the Jammu airstrip.
13:48And that is big in itself.
13:49You know, away from that, India's response right now has been calibrated, measured.
13:54But Dr. Karthar, it's been very, very aggressive.
13:57You come to our western front, we'll go deeper.
14:00We'll hit you harder.
14:01Yeah, I think that's pretty much it.
14:06And look at the way they've gone into and hit the air defense first.
14:10You know, air defense opening a gateway and then going in.
14:13You know, so it's a and the fact that you have also, I believe, some look, India made, Bangalore City made drones were also involved in earlier strikes, not these ones, earlier strikes, which is commendable.
14:25So there is a lot of stuff being put on the table here.
14:28So the thing is that I'll tell you what is different from last, say, Balakot to this time.
14:34What is different?
14:35One, you, of course, you have this crazy Asim Munir on top, which is horrendous.
14:39Number two is the fact, which is the dangerous part here, is that the rest of the world is completely involved in their own stuff.
14:47There is Ukraine, there is Gaza, there is so you've just seen J.D. Van's statement.
14:51He says this is none of our business.
14:53You know, so that factor, which would sometimes pull in Pakistan and say, look, stop right now, that seems to be missing.
15:03So when you have an ego trip guy involved, he actually needs what we call an off-ramp.
15:11Well, nobody is giving him that.
15:12If he wants to impress his public, there has to be something which comes out from outside, where, say, the U.S. president calls, you know, Shabha Sharif, nothing.
15:22True?
15:24You know, you're bang on.
15:26You're right, ma'am.
15:27You know, it's the ego of this one man.
15:29And we're going to, on the other side, I want to take our viewers through on where India stands.
15:34Because it could be because of the ego of one man who is clearly on a suicide mission, if that is what is propelling him to do what he is doing right now.
15:44But what he has done, viewers, is, you know, General Munir, that taken India and Pakistan's conflict, which could have ended, could have clearly ended, with India responding to getting, attacking, and neutralizing terror launchpads in Pakistan at the back of the Pehalgaam attack.
16:05It could have just ended there.
16:07But it didn't.
16:07But what has really happened is today we stand at the precipice where the conflict has only heightened and it's reached its crescendo where we talk on the escalatory matrix right now, at least with what we've seen in the last 48 hours.
16:24We are now officially, viewers, whichever way we might want to look at it, in Chapter 3 of Operation Sindhu.
16:31Chapter 1 was avenging retribution for Pehalgaam, which we did successfully.
16:38Chapter 2 was responding to Pakistan's escalation of attempting to attack 15 Indian military installations.
16:46Well, they could not even land one bomb on India.
16:49Each of those attempts were thwarted, but they did attempt it.
16:52And India responded bifittingly by bombing Lahore's air defense system of Pakistan.
16:58And Rawalpindi, again, a drone attack on Rawalpindi's army headquarter.
17:05And that must have hurt, because that is practically the seat of power where Pakistan is concerned, because that is where the all-consuming, all-pervasive army of Pakistan is headquartered.
17:16Well, with that was Chapter 2, Stage 2 of Operation Sindhu.
17:21Then Pakistan crossed that proverbial red line at last night, viewers, where it attempted to go after civil installations like the Jammu Airport.
17:32You had drones, swarms coming through, attempting to attack Jaisalmer.
17:38Rajasthan shares the longest borderline with Pakistan completely lit, where it went after, where Jalandhar in Punjab, drones were sent intercepted, neutralized by India.
17:48So there was an aggressive attempt by Pakistan once again to attack India, civil installations in India.
17:59And with that crossing of that proverbial red line, India's hand was once again forced, which is Stage 3 now of Operation Sindhu, to hit back hard, retaliate hard.
18:11To basically respond to what has been escalation by escalation, where Pakistan is concerned, pushing India and Pakistan's conflict up that escalation matrix.
18:23And the only credit of that goes to Pakistan viewers.
18:28So this is where we stand right now.
18:30We're going to be hoping to get more clarity very soon.
18:33We're going to get a word coming in from the Ministry of External Affairs.
18:37There's going to be, once again, a debriefing for the world, and where the fine print of what really happened, what did Pakistan attempt, the misadventure once again, it's embarked on.
18:49Many would suggest foolish, completely suicidal in nature, and how did India respond.
18:56So all eyes on that press conference that we are going to hear.
18:59But a couple of words, because it's so very important.
19:01Every time, you know, there is a press briefing or a press note that goes out at this point of time,
19:07each and every word that a responsible nation puts into that press note is measured, calibrated.
19:14And that is what India has done.
19:16Right from the word go, measured, non-escalatory have been words that India has constantly used and followed in spirit.
19:24Suggesting we've not attacked your civilian population, we've not attacked your military installations, that was our first press note.
19:35We've only gone after terror launch pads as a retaliatory measure, because you will not dismantle them, therefore we will have to.
19:43That was our first press briefing.
19:46The second press briefing was once again, it was non-escalatory in nature.
19:50India's hand was forced to attack Pakistan's military installations, like dismantling their ADS system in Lahore,
20:00a response to Pakistan's escalation, grave escalation at that, where it attempted to attack 15 of India's key military installations.
20:10So once again, the words in that press briefing was measured.
20:14But the second time around, viewers, India also put in one word, which was proportionate response, that you will hit us, we will respond proportionately, aggressively.
20:26So it was important to read that.
20:28So what's really important now, viewers, in the third phase, how will India react?
20:33What will that debriefing to the world sound like?
20:37What will be our press note?
20:39What is the kind of language that we are going to use?
20:41Because for any responsible nation, you know, right after there has been a conflict, the debriefing is very important, because that's your messaging to the world.
20:51I want to bring in Dr. Kartha once again into this conversation.
20:54We are also going to cut across to our reporters.
20:56If you can quickly let me know who we have right now, and we'll go across to them.
21:00We are not giving out locations of our reporters' viewers at all, because it's an ongoing operation.
21:05We are in its third phase.
21:06It will compromise the operation and also compromise the security of our reporters.
21:11I will, though, reiterate, it's not an easy job to report on war.
21:14You know, there are a lot of armchair journalists who will sit and pass commentary.
21:19It's not easy.
21:20There is so much disinformation.
21:22We might not be in a war.
21:24The conflict might be heightened to a different level.
21:27But the disinformation practically resembles what is the fog of war.
21:31So for a journalist to continue sifting through all of this disinformation, sifting the facts from what is clearly hearsay or propaganda, is not an easy job.
21:43And our journalists are endeavouring and attempting to do so while putting themselves in the line of fire.
21:49I also want to quickly touch on one casualty that we've had.
21:54And I just don't want to touch on it, because we, as the biggest collateral in the times of conflict and war, are the hapless, innocent citizens.
22:02And India is not like Pakistan.
22:04We own our dead.
22:06We own those who have been fallen to the name of terror at the hands of Pakistan.
22:11It's taken our count to 17 now.
22:1317 Indian citizens have been killed by Pakistan, and all of these casualties have not happened in a drone strike, have not happened in a jet, because we have brought down three fighter jets of Pakistan.
22:26All these casualties have happened where Pakistan has systematically gone after India's civilian population, the LOC, by using very heavy artillery fire and mortar shells coming across ever since the last 48 hours.
22:4317 lives have been lost, killed by Pakistan.
22:47The weight of that grief we will not wear lightly.
22:51We will give a befitting response.
22:53I want to quickly, you know, get in my colleague Aishwarya, who's joining us this morning.
22:59And Meera, I want to pull you in as well.
23:01But Aishwarya, you know, that's one location I am going to give out, because Aishwarya is joining us from Delhi, and she's tracking whatever is going on right now where the defense minister briefing is concerned.
23:13Because he, Aishwarya, very soon is going to be briefed by the CDS and the tri-chiefs on the current situation.
23:20The prime minister also monitoring the situation very closely.
23:22Any word coming in, when can we get in the press briefing by the Ministry of External Affairs to the world?
23:30Well, 9 a.m., Preeti, that's the time when we will see the MEA coming out and doing the press conference.
23:41We will also see them giving out clarifications also, because, see, Preeti, one thing that has happened, and we did see it throughout the night last night.
23:48But it is the social media that was abuzz with a lot of information, and some of it was really not true.
23:54That's something that the government also at the moment is very keenly looking at.
23:57The INB ministry, the IT ministry, and in fact, the MEA also, defense ministry also, very closely tracking what's happening on social media,
24:04because a lot of information is coming in.
24:06A sort of clarity will be given by the government.
24:08Government also does not want panic to spread across the country.
24:12That's something that the government is very mindful of, and that's the reason why the Prime Minister also continuously,
24:17over the past one week, almost 10 days, Preeti, has been briefed about everything that has been happening,
24:23every step that has been taken.
24:25The government is in the know of it.
24:26Prime Minister Narendra Modi is being surprised.
24:28Ashwarya, I'm going to come right back to you.
24:299 a.m. is when that press conference is.
24:32Ashwarya, my colleague, reporting.
24:34Like I said, that's one location I'm going to give out.
24:35But I want to quickly bring in Dr. Kartha.
24:38She's going to leave us shortly.
24:40But Dr. Kartha, what do you expect now from somebody who's studied Pakistan very closely?
24:44There's no backing off.
24:45Because what looks like is now we are only up on an escalatory ladder.
24:50We don't know when it will stop.
24:51What do you think India's response should be?
24:53Because still now we've been proportionate.
24:55We've been aggressive, but proportionate.
24:57Should India now hit harder?
25:00What's your outlook?
25:01I'm going to say something which is a little controversial, but I think it's worth thinking of.
25:10I think it's time you took some humanitarian aid accompanied by aircraft into Afghanistan.
25:20You know, so your aircraft will be there, your air warning will be there, your radar will be there.
25:27Let's give these people a little something to think of.
25:30I mean, you are entitled to go there because as soon as you close the Atarivaga border,
25:35your aid and your trade with Afghanistan is gone and those poor people are suffering.
25:40So you have a humanitarian reason for taking an aircraft there accompanied by fighter jets for safety.