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00:00hello sir good evening i'm harman and i'm from shirigurh nanas dev khalter college
00:08so my question is basically that you keep on saying that khrusha dhamma is formless
00:13brahm brahm yes yeah it's formless but there are millions of people who keep on practicing
00:20devotional worship to form so sir what is wrong with worship to form
00:25see first of all you have to understand where do all forms come from
00:32you have seen buddha statues
00:40in kandhar in bamian in sarnath and you have also seen them in china and japan
00:52yeah right have you have you noticed the difference between the buddha statues that
00:57you find in india afghanistan versus the ones that you find in let's say japan
01:03or even tibet i haven't looked at very you haven't looked at them i'll tell you
01:11yeah the buddha in japan looks extremely japanese
01:17okay and could buddhism reach africa the african buddha
01:24would be very very african in his shape features and form
01:30that's what is wrong with form the form that you worship is nothing but a reflection of your own self
01:41so when you are worshipping a form you are actually worshipping just your own ego
01:46the form that you worship is coming from your own imagination and the form that you worship
01:55is coming from your own identity it will be very difficult for an indian to worship a negroid buddha
02:03are you getting there is a reason why the buddha grew a flat nose when he reached japan
02:13because japanese cannot worship an indian looking buddha
02:20please understand the one you worship is nothing but a projection of your own ego
02:28why do you want to worship your own ego is that not the worst kind of sacrilege against the truth if you worship form
02:35all the gods and ditties that you worship in india
02:41don't they look very very indian
02:44yes they do
02:46and in north india they look north indian
02:49yeah
02:51and in south india they look
02:53south indian
02:55and in bengal if you look at devy
02:59she looks quite bengali
03:01yeah
03:03and if you look at how the form of shri ram has been evolving
03:09over the over the decades
03:12you look how we have changed the form of shri ram
03:18to suit our our political and religious tastes as they are today
03:23if you look at a at a ram statue
03:30or picture belonging to the last century or to the century before the last one
03:37even till the 1980s
03:42shri ram is a very gentle looking north indian fellow
03:46and if you look at how shri ram is being shown today what kind of form do you see
03:53very muscular
03:55yeah
03:56almost similar to a bollywood or hollywood action hero
04:01where is the form then coming from is the form divine
04:06no the form is coming from your own current political and social tastes
04:11that is what is wrong with form
04:13the form is your own ego projected on the screen
04:16just as you have a projector in a movie theater
04:21you see the thing in front of you on the screen
04:25but where is that image on the screen coming from
04:29it is coming from a place behind you
04:31similarly all these forms that you worship are coming from a place within you
04:37your own ego is projecting itself into something and then you start worshiping it
04:42which is quite stupid
04:43it's like worshipping your own shadow
04:46thinking that it is separate from you
04:49is your shadow separate from you
04:50so what will you get if you start worshipping your shadow
04:56or if you start worshipping your reflection in the mirror
04:58will you get something
05:00your form is your own reflection in the mirror
05:02just ornamented
05:05just amplified
05:07nothing else
05:10and that's why those who have known have always said
05:14that the truth is formless
05:16I hope you are not just letting it pass by
05:26is it something that you can understand
05:29yes sir I can understand
05:32you can understand that right
05:33so man creates form according to his own tastes
05:37why do you think all the gods and goddesses
05:40all around the world
05:41all around the world
05:42irrespective of the religion or culture or country
05:45or century
05:46why do all the gods and goddesses have hands
05:49please tell me
05:50why don't they have antennas like cockroaches
05:53because we simply can't assume that
05:57because we have hands
05:59since we have hands so our gods have hands
06:02do you get this
06:06why do our gods speak our own language
06:12does an indian god speak french ever
06:15but we don't exercise any bit of intelligence
06:19we don't ask why are our gods necessarily speaking our language
06:22why are french gods or greek gods not
06:27you don't have french gods you have greek gods
06:29why are greek gods not found in india
06:31why were indian gods not worshipped in greece
06:36why do gods keep changing
06:40in the rigvedi kera you are worshipping varun and agni and mitra
06:45why are you not worshipping them today
06:46why have those forms been forgotten
06:49from where did new forms come up
06:52from where did new gods and goddesses emerge
06:56they all emerge from man's mind
06:59they are our own projection
07:00they are all coming from here
07:01and it's so stupid to worship your own mind
07:05your own imagination
07:06i have to worship the truth
07:08satya
07:08not my own kalpana
07:10you look around
07:17and you will see how obvious it is
07:19how obvious it is
07:21even if you say
07:25the gods have to be a little different from us
07:28the maximum that you do is
07:29instead of two hands
07:30you show them with ten hands
07:31but you still show them with
07:33five hands
07:36instead of two eyes
07:37you will show somebody with one eye
07:38just one eye
07:39but you will still show someone with eyes
07:41even if you show someone
07:45in a non-human form
07:47let's say in the form of an animal
07:48a god in the form of an animal
07:50such gods have been found
07:51all over the world in all cultures
07:53god
07:55in the form of an animal
07:57still the animal
07:59will be anthropomorphic
08:01very closely related to human beings
08:06it will think like human beings
08:07it will have human intentions
08:09is that not so
08:13now do animals have
08:15human thought and intention
08:17no
08:17but even if you worship
08:19an animal god
08:20it will be almost human
08:22so that again proves
08:25what we are worshipping
08:25we are just worshipping
08:26our own form
08:27and therefore
08:31the highest spiritual
08:32philosophies have always said
08:35that the truth is formless
08:36however
08:40if you can
08:41very constructively
08:45very creatively
08:46utilize form
08:47to remind you of the truth
08:50then the form can
08:54help for a while
08:56just for a while
08:57but to think that the form
08:59is the truth
08:59is absolute stupidity
09:01the form
09:06I fully agree
09:08can be useful
09:09for a limited duration
09:10it can have a limited utility
09:14for a limited duration
09:15that much is alright
09:17but to think of the form
09:19as the ultimate truth
09:20is just sacrilege
09:22and
09:23simply pointless
09:25and no intelligent person
09:28does that
09:28yes sir
09:33thank you sir
09:34chai ji
09:37I have a follow up on this
09:39chai ji
09:40in Indian mythology
09:41in Hindu mythology
09:43there are lot of gods
09:44and lot of forms
09:45that we worship
09:45including the form
09:47of Krishna
09:48Rama
09:49so what would be
09:50the right way
09:51of worshipping them
09:52so right now
09:54we understood
09:55that
09:55all the forms
09:56are corrupted
09:57by the human conditioning
09:58and the way
09:59human has been
10:00trained to look at
10:01like the current
10:02Rama is a bodybuilder
10:04or muscular man
10:04like us
10:05but Rama of the
10:07old ages
10:08is much more leaner
10:10so what would be
10:11the right way
10:11of approaching him
10:12because every form
10:13would be corrupted
10:14so what's the right way
10:15of looking at
10:16Krishna or Rama
10:17see you want
10:18to look at a form
10:19and you want
10:20to be reminded
10:22of a higher truth
10:23otherwise the form
10:26is useless
10:26let's be very clear
10:27about it
10:28if the form
10:29does not
10:30remind you
10:31of a truth
10:33beyond the form
10:34then the form
10:37has not succeeded
10:38on you
10:39so when you
10:40look at Krishna
10:41I too have
10:44a little
10:45Krishna form
10:48in my room
10:49I have a Buddha
10:50form as well
10:51I have a Shiva
10:52form as well
10:53since we are
10:54talking of forms
10:55and I have
10:57a big picture
10:59as you all know
11:00of
11:00Saint Kabir
11:03the purpose
11:06is to be
11:06reminded of
11:07something beyond
11:08their faces
11:09instead if I
11:11look at the form
11:12itself as the
11:13final
11:13then I am
11:15deluding myself
11:15and also doing
11:17injustice to their
11:18memory
11:18so if you
11:21want to talk
11:22of Shri Krishna
11:23in particular
11:24the moment
11:25I look at
11:26the face
11:28of Shri Krishna
11:28or even
11:29the flute
11:30or the
11:32morpang
11:33the peacock
11:33feather
11:34I should
11:35immediately
11:35be reminded
11:36of the
11:37Bhagavad Gita
11:38that's what
11:38that's the
11:39purpose of
11:40the Krishna
11:40form
11:40if I look
11:42at Krishna
11:42and immediately
11:43the verses
11:45of Gita
11:46do not
11:47start
11:48floating
11:48in my
11:49mind
11:49if that
11:52song
11:52does not
11:53immediately
11:53spontaneously
11:54arise
11:55when I look
11:55at Shri Krishna
11:56then I am
11:57being unfair
11:58to Shri Krishna
11:59who is
12:01Shri Krishna
12:02not a person
12:03but the
12:04giver of
12:04the Gita
12:05somebody
12:07once asked
12:07me
12:08who is
12:08Krishna
12:08I said
12:09the one
12:09the Gita
12:11comes from
12:12that's the
12:14very
12:14and the
12:15only
12:16truthful
12:17definition
12:17of Shri Krishna
12:18in some
12:20other sense
12:20the Gita
12:21is Krishna
12:21but the Gita
12:23does not
12:24have a face
12:24so Shri Krishna
12:26is then the
12:27face of
12:28Gita
12:28so if you
12:30look at that
12:31face
12:31the face
12:32of Shri Krishna
12:33immediately
12:34the Gita
12:35must come
12:35to your mind
12:35but for that
12:36you must have
12:37first of all
12:37studied the Gita
12:38and truthfully
12:40known the
12:40true meaning
12:41of its verses
12:41not some
12:42corrupted meaning
12:43are you
12:45getting
12:45now what
12:46is happening
12:47is
12:47just so
12:49that
12:49you can
12:51be attached
12:52more
12:52to the
12:53form of
12:54Krishna
12:54than the
12:55truth of
12:55Krishna
12:56even the
12:56verses of
12:57Gita
12:57are being
12:57corrupted
12:58because if
12:59you will
13:00read the
13:01Gita
13:01truthfully
13:03then you
13:04will know
13:05that the
13:05Gita
13:06itself
13:06is Shri
13:06Krishna
13:07there is
13:08actually no
13:09Shri Krishna
13:09beyond the
13:10Gita
13:10how can
13:12there be a
13:12Shri Krishna
13:13beyond the
13:14truth that
13:15he has
13:15revealed
13:15the entire
13:18truth is
13:20contained in
13:21the Gita
13:21Krishna is
13:22Gita
13:22Gita is
13:23Krishna
13:23but that
13:25does not
13:25happen
13:25when you
13:26go to
13:26Krishna
13:27temples
13:27there is
13:30so much
13:30commotion
13:30and color
13:31and merry
13:32making
13:33and sights
13:34and visuals
13:34but there
13:37is no
13:37Gita
13:39there is
13:39no
13:40understanding
13:40what is
13:42Gita
13:42Gita is
13:43just two
13:43things
13:44Atma
13:44Gyan
13:44and
13:44Nishkam
13:45Karma
13:45and in
13:48that all
13:4918 chapters
13:50of the
13:50Gita are
13:51contained
13:51self
13:52knowledge
13:52and
13:54selfless
13:55action
13:55knowing
13:57the self
13:57and once
13:58you know
13:58the self
13:58you drop
13:59it so
13:59action is
13:59selfless
14:00self
14:02knowledge
14:02and selfless
14:02action
14:03that alone
14:05is Gita
14:05so when you
14:05look at
14:06the Krishna
14:06statue
14:07self
14:09knowledge
14:09must
14:10immediately
14:10arise
14:11you must
14:11know that
14:12you are
14:12not
14:12looking at
14:13that statue
14:14you must
14:14have that
14:15kind of
14:15effect
14:15on the
14:16mind
14:16I stand
14:17in front
14:18of the
14:19deity
14:19and immediately
14:21I must
14:21dissolve
14:22I must
14:23know I
14:23am not
14:24that is
14:24self
14:25knowledge
14:25and to
14:27know that
14:28you are
14:28not
14:28you must
14:29be someone
14:29who has
14:30immersed
14:31himself
14:31totally
14:32in the
14:32Gita
14:32but instead
14:34of immersing
14:34yourself
14:35in the
14:35Gita
14:35if you
14:36just sing
14:37and dance
14:37around
14:38Krishna
14:38statue
14:39that is
14:39not going
14:39to help
14:40not at
14:41all
14:41unfortunately
14:42so that's
14:45the purpose
14:46of the
14:48murti
14:48I once
14:50said there
14:51is an
14:51entire
14:51chapter
14:52on this
14:53one
14:53murti
14:54dwar hai
14:54amurt ka
14:55murti
14:57dwar hai
14:58amurt ka
14:58that's the
14:59utility of
14:59the murti
15:00the murti
15:03should lead
15:04you to
15:04the amurt
15:05the form
15:06should lead
15:06you to
15:07the formless
15:08and if the
15:09form is not
15:10leading you to
15:10the formless
15:11then you are
15:11deceiving yourself
15:12the entire
15:15purpose of
15:15the form
15:16is so that
15:17it can
15:17act as
15:18a door
15:20an entrance
15:21into the
15:21formless
15:22otherwise
15:24there is no
15:25point
15:26so Krishna
15:27must mean
15:28Gita
15:28Ram
15:30must mean
15:31Yogvashisht
15:31Shiva
15:33must mean
15:34Ribhugita
15:34or Shiva
15:35Sutra
15:35that is what
15:38they stand
15:38for
15:38because
15:39that's what
15:40you know
15:41in India
15:41Hinduism
15:43Sanatana
15:43Dharma
15:44has been
15:44all about
15:44Ram
15:45Krishna
15:45Shiva
15:46in these
15:48three
15:48all other
15:51gods and
15:51goddesses
15:53they just
15:54dissolve
15:54and in
15:56some sense
15:56even Ram
15:57and Krishna
15:57dissolve into
15:58each other
15:58that's the
15:59Vashnav stream
16:00so even if I
16:03take these
16:04three
16:04these three
16:06mean nothing
16:07other than
16:09the Bhagavad
16:09Gita
16:10Yogvashisht
16:11and the
16:12Ribhugita
16:12the true
16:14representative
16:15of Shivattva
16:16is
16:16Ribhugita
16:17the true
16:19representative
16:19of Ramattva
16:21is
16:21and the true
16:23representative
16:24of Krishna
16:25when I say
16:26these I mean
16:27the essence
16:28essence
16:29the true
16:30representative
16:30of Krishna
16:31is Trimad
16:32Bhagavad Gita
16:32so that's
16:34what the
16:34form must
16:35stand for
16:36otherwise
16:36the form
16:37is wasted
16:37on you
16:38so
16:41you
16:43you
16:44you