Billboard cover star Gracie Abrams is heading back to the studio and has revealed that she’s working on new music following the success of “That’s So True.” She opens up about her friendships with Taylor Swift and Olivia Rodrigo, her experience opening their tours, the future of pop with Sabrina Carpenter and Chappell Roan, her signing to Interscope, and more!
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00:00With That's So True, like, that was the first song I've had that, like, did what it did.
00:04Every time I sat down to try to write something, I felt, like, a little sick, kind of.
00:11And I think because I was thinking about, like, how do I do something that will, like,
00:17but I actually think, like, the way that I want to beat it isn't, like, a numbers game.
00:21It's, like, how do I make something that makes me feel passionate, I suppose.
00:30Having been in Taylor's orbit, and she is, like, the most well-known artist there is,
00:45it really helps put everything into perspective where it's, like, I don't really have it that bad
00:51in terms of the invasion of privacy, and, like, I feel like I've learned a lot from her, obviously.
01:00But one of the things that I've felt lucky to observe is, like, how extreme it can be,
01:05because I think it helps right-size my own shit.
01:09I think having done the ERAs tour and seeing the largest crowds in the world,
01:16it's kind of like this lovely exposure therapy where anything smaller than that
01:21actually does feel kind of comforting.
01:23Despite the fact that, of course, playing my own arena tour felt like a different planet
01:29to me entirely, I do think there felt, like, some kind of closeness, even, between me and
01:34the person in the last row.
01:36It was just the best time, I don't know.
01:39It was really fun.
01:41I feel like my journaling habit is something that's forever grounding for me, regardless
01:52of where I am, and any kind of writing does that for me.
01:55It kind of just, like, switches my brain into this, like, state where I could be anywhere,
02:00and I appreciate that.
02:01On the road with touring, like, even the 45 minutes where I'm doing my own makeup,
02:07like, there's something that is very silent, and it feels like some kind of, like, little
02:11meditation period where my brain turns off, and I'm not, like, performing socially or literally.
02:17I think that hateful discourse online can't get under your skin too much if you're not engaging
02:38with it.
02:39A lot of how I feel at this point in my life in general about public perception or otherwise,
02:45it's just, like, feels like an important moment to try to protect your inner peace,
02:50and I feel like any time that I've slipped into paying too much attention to that, it's, like,
02:57if I'm spending my days, like, at that, it's not, it's not good for me as a person.
03:04It's not good for the art that I want to make.
03:07It's boring as hell.
03:08To be honest, like, being off of social media recently has really helped me get out of the
03:15headspace of, like, just, like, numbers period.
03:19With That's So True, like, that was the first song I've had that, like, did what it did,
03:23and while I've never been somebody that, like, has felt that through the phone necessarily
03:28before, it was, like, there are more people telling you what's going on charts-wise or radio-wise
03:33or, like, streaming numbers, whatever, it's, like, that can start to, like, be internalized,
03:40and I actually really hate how that feels.
03:43Over the holiday, like, end of the year into the beginning of this year,
03:48every time I sat down to try to write something, I felt, like, a little sick, kind of,
03:55and I think because I was thinking about, like, how do I do something that will, like, beat it,
04:02but I actually think, like, the way that I want to beat it isn't, like, a numbers game.
04:07It's, like, how do I make something that makes me feel passionate as well as you know.
04:22Ella, Lord, I've known her for quite a while now, and she happens to do this,
04:29but is just one of my favorite people to lean on, period, because she's, like, 800 years old inside,
04:35and whenever we're together, I feel my nervous system regulate differently.
04:40It's comforting that there are people like her that exist where, like, you know that that's a trusted
04:47person who you could always lean on.
04:50Her career arc is also one that I've looked up to forever, so, yeah, such a gift to be able to
04:57ask her questions. I think, um, almost in, like, pop culture, the impact that both Sabrina and
05:03Chapel have had on the industry has been so exciting to watch, and I think, forget being an
05:09artist and somebody that puts music out as well. It's, like, I think as a young person, there's
05:14something so liberating about both their catalogs of music and the way that they're choosing to run
05:20their businesses. It, like, is so obviously them through and through that, like, I find that to be
05:27deeply inspiring. I'm a mega fan of both of theirs, and, um, yeah, just constantly kind of, like, screaming
05:34my head off for them.
05:38I adore her with my whole heart forever and ever. She's, I mean, like, gave me such a shot
05:45opening for her on the Sour Tour, and I, when she started putting music out again, that was just,
05:53like, such an exciting voice to hear, and she's just lovely beyond measure, so she's somebody who
06:01I feel really lucky to know, and it's, like, been a few years now, which feels crazy, but to champion
06:09her forever is my plan. Yeah, she's the sweetest. I can't wait to watch her Glossomery set. I mean,
06:15all the festivals this summer, I'm just, like, so stoked. It's gonna be so fun.
06:24I was an introverted kid. Like, I was, like, writer kid, you know what I mean? Like, that was just
06:30my impulse. Really, like, the songs that I would hear playing in the house or on the drive to school,
06:37and that was the Joni Mitchell obsession origin, like, really hearing her voice forever, and I
06:44think almost having that baked into these big feelings that, like, then when I grew up more
06:50and was able to actually, like, understand her lyrics, it just hit 10 times harder, but also
06:55there's that, like, deep tie in knowing that my mom has loved her music forever. It just, like,
06:59feels emotional in that way.
07:07I've never had the moment, like, I can see this being my entire life forever. It was just, like,
07:11I knew that no matter what I would do for my entire life, like, writing was always going to be
07:15something that I would spend my free time, like, dedicated to, because it was what made me feel
07:20like I could, like, bear everything. And when I started using Instagram as this, like, very impulsive,
07:29almost diary to upload snippets of songs that I'd written in real time, and I started to connect
07:35with people who I didn't know who had gone through similar experiences or felt similar
07:39feelings, it was, like, that was something that I appreciated so much immediately, and
07:45that was the feeling that I knew I wanted to try to, like, chase, I suppose, more than
07:52anything else.
08:00I feel like one of the reasons why Interscope have been such amazing partners is because
08:08prior to signing, there was already a community of people online who I engaged with often who
08:15were always really responsive to my music when I would upload snippets, and I made them aware
08:21that that was what was most important to me, the writing and then that connection, and they
08:26seemed to value that as much as I did, so I trusted them. And I guess that that was, like,
08:32yeah, really, like, my priority when thinking about doing music for even, like, another year
08:37back then, you know what I mean? I was like, oh, when I look at this next year, I want the
08:41shows to feel a certain way, I want releases to feel a certain way, I want the people that care
08:45to feel like they know that I know that they care. Like, I wanted it all to feel as integrated
08:53as possible, but I definitely didn't have such a broad imagination to certainly never assume,
08:59but, like, zero expectation around any of what's happened. It's outside the bounds of what I
09:06could have dreamed up, so.
09:13Being able to trust everyone I work with to the degree that I do is probably, unfortunately,
09:22a very rare feeling, but I, like, lean on these women. I admire the way that they work. I look
09:28up to the way that they treat other people. I think all of us are equally invested in, like,
09:34all boats rising. Obviously, with this job, there's the creative and artistic, and then there's, like,
09:42the business person side, and when I look at my business, it's just incredibly important to me
09:50that as many positions as possible can be filled by really badass women.
10:04The last week that I went to Long Pond was at the top of the year, right before I left for Tor,
10:15and it was the first time in a while where I felt like I had nothing to say, and I was actually quite
10:21aggravated with myself that I had booked that time, because I felt, I went into it being, like,
10:26oh, I feel like I'm going to waste Aaron's time right now, and his time is precious, and I didn't go in
10:31being, like, this is a relationship I want to write about. This is, like, a feeling that I've got
10:36bubbling inside. It was more I felt a little bit disconnected from myself, and then I think it
10:42speaks to the power of, like, long-time collaboration when you're able to feel that way and enter a room
10:50of someone like Aaron and leave the week with a handful of songs that I couldn't have anticipated
10:58writing ever, necessarily, and songs that have excited me, like, sonically, but really thematically
11:05as well. I think, like, it feels undeniable that, like, there's such sudden and unnecessary cruelty
11:14right now in the world, and I feel like similarly to when I sit down and write about a relationship
11:21that's top of mind. Anything that I'm feeling is what comes out, really. It's subconsciously,
11:33it's shown up in some recent songs in a way that has been interesting, so likely it will be an album.
11:42Like, likely it will be an album, but in my head I was like, oh, maybe I'll do a couple EPs or something
11:46before this year of touring is over, and then there's, like, months to go in and, like, be super
11:54intentional, but we've been experimenting with things along the way, and I really love the music,
12:02and I think I've just been trying to, like, take the pressure off of myself to, like, have to reinvent.
12:09It's like, actually, there's something really reaffirming, I guess, having just been on this leg of
12:15the tour where the rooms are so much bigger, and I went in assuming that, like, I love you, I'm sorry,
12:23and that's so true would be the songs that are screamed the loudest, but it's, like, they're as loud
12:30as Camden. For example, I'm like, whoa.
12:32That made me feel like I can go into this next chapter and not feel like I need to, like, reinvent the wheel.
12:47I feel lucky that when I sit down to write, I'm still not, you know, still now, I'm not, I'm not thinking
12:54about, like, if I'm, like, half a verse in, I'm like, what will happen when this song is out in the world?
12:58It's, like, writing for me has always, since I was little, been the thing that I've turned to in order
13:03to process my feelings in a way that is, like, most productive, I think. Like, I've always found it
13:08easier to write about how I feel instead of, like, communicating it directly with people, so when I
13:15write music, that's still true, and so there's definitely nothing that I'm, like, beating around
13:21the bush, you know, with. Like, I think it's, it's always quite straight to the point. I think touring
13:29is a really cool metric to, like, gauge what might work. Like, music feels so visceral live,
13:36and I've been very excited about the concept of, like, not only reimagining certain songs that we've
13:43been playing, but also, like, as I move into tying up loose ends production-wise on some of these new
13:50songs, it's, like, I want it to feel powerful, and I think, like, when you think about a festival
13:55set, you want everything to be punchy as hell.
14:03The next step, in my head, I think about the next album first, and so I hope that I don't get in my
14:09own way so much. That's my next step, is just, like, super hands-on, of course, but, like,
14:16like, like, let it, let it be who I am, like, I think is my goal, yeah.