'My way': Macron regrets lack of consensus, yet 'forced reform through using undemocratic methods'
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00:00 But first, Emmanuel Macron made a prime time address three days after he signed the controversial
00:07 pension reform bill into law.
00:09 The French president trying to calm tensions after the text was validated by France's
00:13 constitutional council.
00:15 Macron said he understood the anger, but he defended his move while acknowledging that
00:19 no consensus was found.
00:21 Take a listen.
00:26 This year's 14th of July will allow us to do a first evaluation.
00:30 We have a hundred days ahead of us to ensure appeasement, unity and actions dedicated to
00:35 France.
00:36 It's our duty and I trust you, the people, and I trust us.
00:44 We can now bring in Joseph Downing, visiting fellow at LSE's European Institute.
00:50 Good evening.
00:51 Thank you very much for joining us here on France 24.
00:54 What did you make of Emmanuel Macron's address tonight?
00:57 Yeah, it was very interesting because he said a lot, but he didn't say very much at the
01:02 same time.
01:03 So he says he regrets not reaching a consensus on the pension reforms, but this is obviously
01:09 something he didn't regret enough to not kind of force it through using quite undemocratic
01:14 methods.
01:15 He raised the specter of discussing the question of the distribution of wealth within France,
01:21 which is something that is very much at the heart of the current political debate in France
01:25 because France has seen over the past few decades a massive increase in income inequality
01:30 with the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer, something we've seen across
01:34 much of the democratic industrialized world.
01:38 The reason this sets up Macron for some significant trouble is because he's seen as somebody who's
01:43 benefited from that rise in inequality.
01:45 He's seen as a president of the rich.
01:47 And I don't think his address tonight, as you can see on the screen currently, you know,
01:51 next to a gilded window is really going to appease people who are worrying about the
01:55 erosion of their purchasing power and how they're going to fill the fridge over the
01:58 next few months.
02:01 What was interesting to me is that he said he understood the anger, but just a couple
02:07 of weeks ago, he sort of made the comparison to the demonstrations out on the streets of
02:12 France with the January 6th insurrection in the United States.
02:16 Yeah.
02:17 And this is the thing, right?
02:18 So, France is caught between two polls and has been for the past two presidential elections
02:23 between a populist kind of far-right platform embodied by their assembly nationale, which
02:30 was at the time run by Marine Le Pen, who took over from her father.
02:34 So, you know, it's this sort of family operation of thinly veiled racism and xenophobia, but
02:40 also very much an anti-establishment, pro-welfare state, pro-the working class in France platform.
02:48 And so, you know, he's right to make that comparison, but really, he's doing very little
02:51 to offer an appealing alternative.
02:53 I mean, one of the key drivers of the Yellow Vest protest was a proposed rise on fuel tax
03:00 in the first Macron term.
03:02 And we see now something like that, which sparks off a massive protest movement.
03:05 We see two things now which are much more serious, which is a general, you know, double
03:09 digit inflation.
03:12 And now, you know, for the French being told, OK, you're going to be poorer and you're going
03:16 to also have to work longer, while people like Macron clearly won't have to face those
03:21 difficulties.
03:22 So, he's not really, I think, coming across as a very sympathetic figure, unfortunately.
03:26 Macron's speech was about 12, 13 minutes, roughly.
03:29 He spent over half that time talking about things other than the pension reform.
03:34 Do you think he's desperate to sort of move on and talk about the rest of his term in
03:39 office?
03:40 And will people out on the streets buy that?
03:42 Well, I mean, the thing with Macron is he's at a point where he's thinking about his legacy.
03:48 He can't run for another presidential term.
03:50 So really, he doesn't have to worry too much about re-election.
03:54 And I think, and this is going to be an unpopular opinion, both inside and outside of France,
03:58 but I do think in 20 years' time, the French will look back on Macron as one of their great
04:03 presidents in the mold of Mitterrand, Chirac and de Gaulle.
04:07 Because what he's done is he has not shied away from tackling the difficult issues.
04:12 And France does face a pension deficit.
04:14 France does face an imbalance in terms of massive state spending that's only set to
04:19 grow.
04:20 And Macron has come on the scene.
04:22 And he has, whether it's popular or unpopular, delivered on those promises and really got
04:26 France moving.
04:27 He's massively reduced unemployment rates in France.
04:30 He's steered France through the shock, the exogenous shock of the COVID pandemic.
04:34 And I do think he will be looked back on with some nostalgia and as one of those great sort
04:39 of strong French statesmen.
04:41 But that's not how he's seen right now.
04:43 And that's the key problem, I think, is that for the medium term, he will push further
04:47 reforms because that's how he sees his legacy shaping up.
04:51 But this is not going to be popular.
04:52 And neither will he be very popular with the French public.
04:56 You can see his approval rating currently is really low.
05:00 So I don't think this battle is over by any means.
05:04 He did say that there was no consensus reached during this whole process.
05:10 So clearly there's an acknowledgement that the manner things were done was not ideal
05:16 in his opinion.
05:17 Nevertheless, he did sign the bill into law just a couple of hours after it was validated
05:22 by France's constitutional council.
05:25 Do you think people who are going to forget the way the president did things?
05:29 No, and I think this is really the stain on this whole process and on Macron's record
05:36 more broadly is that he did override the democratic process.
05:40 He did bypass the legislature because he was worried about losing a vote.
05:44 And while it is constitutional, right, it is legal because there is that provision in
05:49 the French constitution to end the deadlock in a sense.
05:53 But a provision he said he wouldn't use.
05:55 A provision he said he wouldn't use and a provision that's actually supposed to be used
05:58 in a time of crisis and not to be used to force through the raising of the retirement
06:03 age.
06:04 It was designed to get over some of the weaknesses of the fourth republic and to make a stronger,
06:10 more agile fifth republic.
06:11 And he's kind of abused that power.
06:13 Again, totally legally, but it won't be seen as something that's positive.
06:19 And it will be seen that he's somebody who's willing to sacrifice French democracy to force
06:24 through and to put his vision of France onto the French people.
06:28 And this is something not new for Macron, right.
06:30 I mean, he's had a checkered record with pushing communications and social media legislation
06:36 through the EU that was defeated in the French constitutional court.
06:40 So he has a record of taking this kind of, you know, quite autocratic approach.
06:44 Joseph Downing, we're going to have to leave it there.
06:46 Thank you very much for joining us on the programme tonight.
06:48 And while Joseph was speaking, we were showing you images of a protest breaking out on the
06:54 streets of Paris in the aftermath of Emmanuel Macron's primetime address.