Incoming transfer latest at Sunderland plus San Antonio and New Mexico pre-season friendly analysis with James Copley, Joe Nicholson and Phil Smith.
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00:20 Hello and welcome to the broadcast brought to you by the Suns and
00:38 the Necro, my name's James Copley and I'm joined today by Joe Nicholson and Phil Smith.
00:42 How are we both doing?
00:43 >> Doing well.
00:45 >> Yeah. >> Phil's probably a bit tired.
00:47 >> Yeah.
00:48 >> All good, looking forward to the season starting now.
00:50 We're in that little sort of mini midway point, aren't we,
00:53 where the football's back, but it's not quite the season.
00:55 I'm looking forward to it, to getting going.
00:58 >> Yeah, me too.
00:59 Lots to discuss, namely preseason.
01:01 We'll get on to the transfer stuff a bit later.
01:03 Joe and Phil, you've been up watching the games in the middle of the night.
01:06 We'll start with the most recent Phil against New Mexico United.
01:10 What were your main takeaways from the game?
01:12 >> Yeah, I thought it was probably more than anything a pretty useful fitness exercise.
01:20 I think that you could see that the heat was incredibly intense and
01:27 obviously having previously in the previous preseason friendlies,
01:32 we've seen sort of the team split over the two halves.
01:36 This time, Mobley's flipped it and
01:37 we're going to see two teams play 90 minutes, if that makes sense.
01:40 So it was a huge challenge for the players because they trained on the morning and
01:45 then the heat was absolutely off the charts really.
01:49 And New Mexico changed their entire team at halftime.
01:52 So they were playing against fresh legs, sort of both halves.
01:55 And I thought you could see that.
01:56 I thought they were actually for the large part of the game, New Mexico,
01:59 probably the better side, as much as anything because they're in their season and
02:04 their match sharpness was there.
02:06 So it looked a little bit at times like someone who had been overrun,
02:08 I think, in midfield a little bit.
02:09 But I think that was purely just a fatigue thing.
02:11 And ultimately, what we did see was someone's quality come to the fore with a few
02:15 really good goals.
02:16 And people have seen Pierre Equis' goal, an unbelievable strike.
02:20 But I thought the real standout for me was Alex Pritchard,
02:24 who given all the things I just talked about, the heat was exceptional.
02:28 His intensity, the way he linked up the play,
02:31 he was the best player on the pitch by a mile.
02:33 And so it was a decent performance.
02:35 I wouldn't put it any stronger than that.
02:36 But I think my main caveat would be that that was mainly because of the conditions.
02:40 Also, baseball ground they were playing in last night.
02:42 And you could see the markings.
02:44 I don't know my baseball terminology, but where the pitcher stands and where the batter
02:48 stands, that meant the pitch wasn't sensational, I would say.
02:51 It was a bit bobbly.
02:53 So it was a decent performance.
02:55 But I think the main thing is just what we're seeing is these players are getting
03:00 a serious challenge fitness-wise.
03:01 And hopefully, in a few weeks' time, we'll be talking about how sharp they look
03:05 and how they benefit from that.
03:08 Joe, what have you made of Jemilla?
03:10 Obviously, he sort of contributed to a goal against San Antonio,
03:14 went down as an own goal, but his presence was there.
03:18 He was in the right place.
03:19 He scored again against New Mexico with a header scored against South Shields.
03:23 Obviously, he didn't play against Gateshead on the same day.
03:26 But promising signs.
03:27 You don't want to get too excited because he's a new signing through the door,
03:30 a fairly young lad.
03:31 But at the end of the day, it's better to score than not to score in the pre-season.
03:35 Yes, it certainly looks like he's going to start the season, doesn't it?
03:38 Unless Sunday, bring in another striker with Ross Stewart still expected to miss
03:43 the start of the season.
03:45 But certainly from the early signs, I think we've all kind of liked what we've seen
03:48 about him.
03:49 I think you've mentioned before on the podcast that although he's 6'4",
03:52 he's not really a target man.
03:54 He does like to drop deep.
03:55 He does like to link up play.
03:57 And for the first half that he played against San Antonio,
04:00 I thought he did well.
04:00 I thought he dropped deep and linked up the play quite well.
04:04 Showed his strength, showed his ability to also kind of run at the defence
04:08 through the middle and was able to kind of, whether he got a touch for that goal
04:13 against San Antonio, it was quite hard to see if it actually came off him or if it
04:16 came off the defender.
04:17 I think it went down as an own goal.
04:18 But he got into that position and showed his strength to get in front of the player.
04:23 So I think you saw him as well at South Shields.
04:25 I wasn't at that game.
04:26 But the early signs from what I've seen of him and the clips I've seen of him,
04:29 good head of the other night against New Mexico to get on the score sheet.
04:33 He does offer that kind of physical presence up front, which I think we've
04:37 seen in kind of the halves or the other games that he's not played.
04:41 There's still a real lack of depth there.
04:43 Pritchard's played as a false nine.
04:45 Dewis and Bennett's played through the middle as well.
04:47 And it's certainly a position where with Stewart still injured, Sundman still needs
04:50 to strengthen because if Jemir's not available or he's given a rest,
04:55 there is a lack of options for someone to play through the middle.
04:57 And we've seen that, I think, in the friendly so far.
05:01 Yeah, we'll come on to the transfer stuff in a few developments over the past
05:05 couple of days.
05:06 Phil, opposite end of the pitch to Jemir, but what a story.
05:09 Matthew Young, 16 years old, Academy graduate.
05:12 I gather he was a Sunderland fan as a youngster as well.
05:15 Circumstance dictated that he was taken on the pre-season tour and he started
05:20 against New Mexico, pulled off a couple of good saves in the first half and was
05:23 probably unlucky to concede.
05:25 Yeah, he was, yeah.
05:26 I think he's been at the club since he was seven.
05:28 If anyone out there wants to correct me on that.
05:31 But he's certainly a local lad who's been at the club for a long time.
05:36 And you're right that circumstances dictated him coming on this tour.
05:39 Obviously, Alex Bass's departure and then obviously Adam Richardson picking up a
05:42 little injury as well.
05:44 But I think it's probably important to say as well that, you know, he probably
05:49 wouldn't have been far off anyway.
05:51 We've obviously talked a bit about that Sunderland under-18 side last year that
05:55 nearly won the league, beaten only just by a couple of points by Manchester City.
06:00 And Young was at the heart of that team, really.
06:02 And going back a little bit further when, you know, Sunderland won the under-15
06:07 Premier League Floodlit Cup a few years ago.
06:09 And that was the team where Chris Rigg really kind of emerged as this hugely
06:12 exciting talent.
06:14 Young was very much part of that team.
06:16 So this really exciting crop of young Sunderland players we're talking about
06:19 being the kind of next generation, Young was part of that.
06:22 And yeah, you can see straight away why he's a goalkeeper.
06:25 He's well over six foot.
06:27 He certainly doesn't look like a 16-year-old in his stature, which is
06:30 obviously exciting because he will have a lot of physical development to do over
06:33 the next few years.
06:33 And yeah, he's another player who kind of shows how Sunderland have been able to
06:37 turn the tide.
06:38 He had opportunities to go to the Premier League.
06:40 He had opportunities to go to big academies over the last couple of years.
06:43 But he's in a position now where, well, I think there's two aspects to it.
06:47 One, because of Sunderland's on the up and because of the pathway, you know,
06:49 players want to be part of it.
06:51 I think particularly as a goalkeeper, Mark Prudhoe has an outstanding record of
06:55 developing goalkeepers right through the pyramid.
06:57 So yeah, really exciting.
06:59 And as you say, he made one, his first save was a good one, but one you would
07:03 expect a goalkeeper to make.
07:05 But he then made another two saves.
07:06 One low was left and one high was right.
07:09 It was seriously good stops.
07:11 One or two nervy moments as well, as I think you would expect for a 16-year-old
07:14 on debut.
07:15 But yeah, he looks real fine.
07:18 I think it's funny, isn't it? Because obviously, you know, we know Jordan
07:21 Pickford is this really expansive goalkeeper who does a huge amount of work
07:26 with his feet.
07:27 But Young, to me, looks like another one who, his first performance as a solid
07:31 goalkeeper, good shot to stop there, comes off his line well.
07:34 And we'll build on that distribution side of it a bit like Anthony Paterson over
07:37 the next few years.
07:38 So I suspect we probably won't see him for a little while because you would think
07:42 that Paterson will play tomorrow and you'd think there'd be a senior goalkeeper
07:46 coming in in the next couple of weeks.
07:47 So it'll be a while before we see Young, I think.
07:49 But he certainly showed that over the next two to three years, he's someone we're
07:53 going to be hearing a lot more about, I think.
07:55 Yeah, Paterson, Richardson, Young, Metcalf, the goalkeeping situation at
08:00 Sutherland throughout the ages seems quite positive at the moment.
08:03 It was a shame that Toby Bell, the young goalkeeper, he's gone to Chelsea.
08:06 You mentioned Marc Perdo there, Phil, and having spoken to people in and around
08:12 the academy, it seems that he's a real unsung hero.
08:15 He's been at the club a long time.
08:16 He was a player as well.
08:18 And you need figures like that at the club.
08:21 And talk to me a bit about this group, Phil.
08:23 How excited can we get about them?
08:25 Because we've seen Rigg come through and there's other lads as well.
08:28 Young, Ogunsui, who played against South Shields, as well as half the team that
08:33 came on.
08:33 It's promising in two regards, as you mentioned.
08:36 One, that they're getting game time, and two, that they've remained at the club
08:40 amidst interest from Leeds, Wolves, Newcastle United with Rigg.
08:44 It's promising, isn't it?
08:46 It is, yeah.
08:47 And I think you've always got to be careful, because generally speaking, if
08:50 you look at even at the very, very top Premier League clubs, if you take any
08:55 sort of talented team of young players, unfortunately, the sheer maths of
09:00 football is that a lot of them probably won't make it at the very top level.
09:03 But I think what's nice is you had a generation of huge Sunderland talent,
09:10 Sam Greenwood, Barley Mumber, Joe Hugill, who scored his first Man United
09:16 goal last week.
09:17 Now, there were lots of different reasons why they left the club.
09:21 There's no one sort of specific reason, but generally speaking, Sunderland
09:25 lost a generation, really, because of where the club was at.
09:28 Now, moving forward, I'm sure not all of these players will make it at
09:33 Sunderland.
09:34 Some of them will opt to move.
09:36 Some of them won't develop quite as quickly as we hoped and expected.
09:39 But I think you have that encouragement that they will want to be around
09:45 Sunderland because of the project.
09:46 I think the perception of Sunderland has genuinely been transformed in the
09:50 last two years in terms of somewhere for young players to play.
09:53 So, I think it is hugely exciting.
09:55 And obviously, Joe can talk a little bit about Chris Rigg's performance the
09:58 other night, but we're getting towards sort of those Barley Mumber areas,
10:03 where if you remember that pre-season when Sunderland were in League One,
10:06 where he was performing at such a high level that we started off saying,
10:10 'Crikey, this kid's talented.'
10:11 And by the end of pre-season, we were saying, 'This guy could be in the team
10:14 first day of the season.'
10:15 Now, obviously, for one reason or another, it didn't quite happen with Mumber
10:19 over the longer period.
10:20 But I think Rigg's kind of nudging towards that territory where we're saying,
10:23 'Are we actually talking about him starting against Ipswich?'
10:26 At the moment, maybe not, but I don't think we're a million miles away from
10:29 having that conversation, which is incredible, really.
10:31 Well, talk to us about Chris Rigg, Joe, because after the San Antonio game,
10:35 Mowbray came out and said, 'Look, he's knocking on the door with his performances.'
10:39 I think we caveat every conversation we have about Chris Rigg with,
10:44 'He is only 16 and we have to go carefully and you have to nurture him.'
10:48 Even in our narratives and our comments around him, you have to be careful
10:51 because he is essentially a child.
10:53 And although he's playing football with the men in a cutthroat world,
10:58 you do have to be mindful and wary of that.
11:01 But when he steps out onto the pitch, he looks a senior figure in the way he plays.
11:08 There is some elements of naivety, yes, but he looks the real deal to me.
11:12 He looks exceptional.
11:14 Yeah, physically, he doesn't look like a 16-year-old, does he?
11:17 And you have to be if you're going to step up to senior football.
11:20 Joe Bellingham's the same as well.
11:21 You wouldn't have thought that he's 17 when he comes on and he plays senior football.
11:26 And Chris Rigg certainly didn't look out of place when he played against San Antonio.
11:30 He played 45 minutes. He played the first half and was probably one of the standout performers
11:34 in that first half. Got his goal quite early and could have had more as well.
11:38 There was probably three occasions where he broke into the box.
11:42 One of them he was forced to save from the goalkeeper.
11:44 One of them he was just kind of crowded out from a few defenders.
11:48 But interestingly, he played as kind of a number 10 in the previous kind of times
11:52 I've seen him play for the under-21 side. He's played a little bit deeper.
11:55 And probably when he's come on for the senior team in the FA Cup games,
11:58 he's played maybe a little bit deeper, but he was in that kind of number 10 position.
12:02 He was breaking into the box like he did to get his goal.
12:05 And that was really promising as well.
12:08 And the thing that kind of impressed me as well, he did an interview with the club afterwards,
12:12 which was on their Twitter page. And listening to him speak,
12:15 he wouldn't have thought this is a 16-year-old kid kind of going away with the senior side.
12:20 He kind of spoke like he was a 25-year-old senior player.
12:24 And he's clearly a confident kind of younger player.
12:27 And he stepped up really well. He obviously came on against South Shields
12:31 in the end, scored that winner, then scored again against San Antonio.
12:35 So he hasn't looked out of place with the senior squad,
12:38 looks very comfortable in that environment.
12:40 And the interesting thing is he can play kind of multiple positions.
12:44 As we've seen, he's played as a number 10, he's played slightly deeper.
12:48 And I think Sunderland have kind of not wanted, it's similar with Joe Bellingham,
12:52 similar with Dan Neal even as well. They don't kind of want to just put them in one position
12:57 and say that's their position and lock them in.
12:59 That's the only place they're going to play.
13:01 These kind of players have got attributes to play in different areas of the pitch
13:04 and that versatility could be very useful.
13:07 But yeah, certainly very encouraging signs for Chris Wheat, for Chris Rigg even.
13:12 How often is he going to play in the first team?
13:15 I'd guess he'd probably kind of mix between the first team and the 21s next season.
13:20 The fact that you can now name nine substitutes as well could probably help.
13:23 So he could probably be involved in some more matchday squads.
13:27 But yeah, certainly very encouraging and positive thing for Sunderland to have.
13:32 I absolutely love that interview with Chris Rigg, Joe, that you mentioned.
13:36 As you say, it was very measured and had you closed your eyes,
13:39 you wouldn't have perhaps realised that it was a 16-year-old kid.
13:43 But there were sort of little elements of him being quite young in there.
13:48 Just to read you one of his quotes,
13:50 he said, 'It's been really good. This pre-season has been my first one of hopefully many with this club.
13:56 I think the travelling fans have been great. The lads have been great.
13:59 The coaches have been great. And I can't wait for the season to kick off.'
14:02 He then added with a sort of half-wry little smile that he was absolutely buzzing.
14:06 And you could tell that he was just lovely to see, Phil, really.
14:09 And that acceptance of Rigg to the fans and the fans to Rigg as well,
14:13 which we know was an important factor in his decision to stay at Sunderland.
14:17 Just a nice wholesome story at the moment.
14:20 Yeah, I think it's again, it's credit to the club that I think they have genuinely...
14:27 It would have been quite easy, I think maybe a year ago, even six to eight months ago,
14:31 quite defeatist about the chance to keep him, Rigg, just because he was such a huge talent
14:37 and there was so much significant interest in him.
14:39 And I think even when he first was used in the FA Cup,
14:42 I think there was a little bit of suspicion wasn't there in terms of,
14:46 you know, is this a bit of a gimmick?
14:48 Is this, you know, could this be a compensation thing down the line?
14:53 But I think you have to give Sunderland a lot of credit that the development plan they've presented
14:57 and the way they've made Rigg feel part of it, you know,
15:04 has made him snub some serious, serious offers and some serious, serious opportunities.
15:09 And the other thing is as well as, you know, for all Sunderland will give opportunities to young players,
15:13 you have to earn it. And that's the thing about Rigg.
15:17 And you speak to anyone, coaches, players, you know,
15:21 he does not fear anybody on the training pitch.
15:23 Since the day he went up as a 15-year-old, he's been kicking people if they come near him
15:27 and he's been, you know, taking chances on the ball.
15:30 So it is exciting.
15:31 But I think we also, you know, you have to factor in as well,
15:35 as you'll see with every single young player, whoever comes through,
15:38 and we've seen it with Sunderland players, there will be dips, you know,
15:41 there'll be spells where he looks electric and there'll be spells where he looks a bit tired
15:45 and where he looks like he's working things out.
15:48 So it will definitely be an up and down, up and down journey.
15:51 But I, yeah, it feels like we're now talking about, you know,
15:54 Joe mentioned there in terms of his development for the season,
15:56 we will definitely see him in the under-21s at times.
15:59 But I think we're definitely talking about Chris Rigg as a first-team squad player
16:02 and I imagine he'll spend the vast majority of his training time with the first team.
16:06 And, you know, the fact that he's on this tour in the first place kind of reflects that.
16:12 On that point, Phil, Joe mentioned about Chris Rigg being versatile in terms of his ability to play
16:21 across sort of midfield positions and in attacking areas, namely as a 10.
16:27 In terms of transfers, do you think Sunderland need to or are eyeing another number 10?
16:35 You mentioned Pritchard had a good game.
16:37 Roberts can play there, although he does prefer to play off the right.
16:40 And Chris Rigg can play there too.
16:42 How do you see that sort of position development over the transfer window
16:46 and, you know, sort of what's going on really?
16:48 Yeah, I don't think it's a huge priority at the moment.
16:53 I think it's difficult to talk about because there is the Ahmad factor.
16:59 Yeah, the big question.
17:00 And I don't mean that with Ahmad necessarily personally
17:04 because I think Sunderland are quite pessimistic about the chance of getting Ahmad back.
17:08 But what I mean is Ahmad was sort of a striker, sort of a right winger, sort of a number 10.
17:16 And I think his absence still leaves a huge gap that needs to be addressed.
17:21 But the question for Sunderland is how they go about doing that.
17:24 Do they look for someone with that similar level of versatility?
17:27 And do they look for, you know, another winger who can really push and challenge Roberts?
17:32 I think that's going to be a really interesting question.
17:34 I think in terms of that midfield, I think in terms of the further recruitment,
17:40 I think a good part of it probably hangs on where they see things with Jamie Tetter.
17:45 Because I think if you talk about that number 10, I think Pritchard's an excellent option.
17:50 As I've said, I think I have to say I think he's very underrated on the wayside.
17:54 And I think he's exceptional and he's proven that time and time again.
17:57 And I think you then have Bellingham, Ekwer, you know, Neil can play a little bit further forward very comfortably if he needs to.
18:05 Chris Reagas we're talking about and obviously Jamie Tetter as well.
18:09 Now, obviously, what we've seen in pre-season, we've seen Tetter play a slightly deeper role, which I personally, I don't particularly think is his main strength.
18:16 I think he's better when he's got freedom to sort of drive forward with the ball, when he's got the freedom to go and press the opposition as well.
18:23 So if you if Tetter is going to play that role, then as it stands, although, you know, you might say you've only got one natural number 10,
18:29 you've actually got loads of sort of slightly more advanced midfielders and they are players that some of them want to protect the pathway for.
18:36 And Abdullah Barre has probably played his best football as a number 10.
18:40 Now, normally he's done that in a back three where some of them have played two 10s.
18:44 But really what we've seen from Mowbray is he doesn't see him as a central midfielder.
18:47 He sees him as someone who wants to play off the striker.
18:50 So actually, in a strange kind of way, you're kind of stacked in that position.
18:54 It just feels like you've only got one, what we would call a classic number 10 in Pritchard.
18:58 So I do think someone who will recruit another forward is what I'm trying to get forward to over and above the striker.
19:05 But I'm not sure it will necessarily be someone you can put in a box as a number 10.
19:09 I think it's likely to be, you know, someone of the Ahmad profile, someone quite versatile.
19:14 And I think we'll see, listen, I think again, we'll see Sunderland be very, very fluid last year.
19:19 This year, try humans popping into midfield.
19:22 Last night, we've seen Nile Huggins do it.
19:26 So I do think, yeah, Sunderland clearly the priority is the striker.
19:30 I do think we'll probably see another forward come in, I think.
19:35 But I'm not sure, I would imagine that would be someone with a bit of versatility.
19:40 I guess, Joe, the way Sunderland played last season without a striker really put the onus on Ahmad.
19:46 And he quite clearly shone in that role.
19:49 But now Sunderland do have a striker.
19:51 There's a bit less pressure on that number 10 role to be, you know, the most creative output in terms of goals and assists.
19:58 Maybe even takes the pressure off Jack Clark a little bit as well on the left.
20:00 But obviously you'd want those numbers to remain high.
20:03 What I'm trying to get at is that perhaps having such a physical presence like Hemiya, providing he stays fit
20:08 and plays most of Sunderland's games, as well as hopefully somebody behind him,
20:12 might change, as Phil has hinted at, Mo Bray's set-up going forward.
20:17 Yeah, obviously taking Ahmad out, it takes a lot of goals out of the team.
20:20 Didn't he want to get 12 or 13? And then you could throw a couple of assists in there as well.
20:25 Obviously with no Stewart as well to start the season, that's, you know, taking more goals out of the team.
20:30 But some of them were, what, about the four or five scorers, I think, in the Championship last season, something like that.
20:35 So they did still manage to score a lot of goals despite the striker issues.
20:39 I think striker is still one of the main priorities just because of not being sure where Stewart is at the minute.
20:45 When's he going to be back? What's the latest with, you know,
20:48 the transfer reports have resurfaced over the last couple of days as well.
20:52 So you can't really be relying on Stewart at the start of the season.
20:55 So at the minute, it is just Hemiya is the only recognised striker.
20:59 So that's definitely, I think, a position where Sunderland need to be looking to strengthen.
21:04 Next, obviously, there's the goalkeeper area as well, bringing in a replacement for Alex Bass.
21:09 But apart from that, I think the squad is pretty set.
21:12 I think at centre-back, pretty strong there. We've got a lot of options at full-back.
21:17 There's a lot of options, even though we don't quite know when Adjou-Elissé is going to be back.
21:21 You've got Gouch and Hume on one side. You've got Sirkin and then probably Elissé on the other side.
21:26 You've got Huggins has come back into the equation as well. At Holden midfield,
21:30 I think they've tried Matete, as Phil mentioned before, as a Holden midfielder this summer.
21:36 It looks like kind of Neil is the first choice there.
21:38 And then they've kind of seen Matete as a backup,
21:41 even if he may be better suited to playing further forward as maybe number eight.
21:46 But I think in that position, Ekwert and maybe even Bellingham have overtaken him there.
21:50 So that's probably why he's been tried out as more of a Holden midfield.
21:54 And then as a number 10, there is options there, whether Bellingham plays there,
21:57 Favre, Pritchard, Roberts could move inside.
22:01 So they know why you've got people like Lahadji as well and Bennett.
22:04 So the squad seems pretty well stocked apart from maybe up front and in the goalkeeper department.
22:12 And that's credit to, as we mentioned before, to the recruitment team getting deals done early,
22:16 bringing in players that have been able to step up from last season after maybe a year or six months to adapt.
22:22 So I think Son and I are in a pretty good place,
22:24 but certainly replacing the goals that, as you mentioned before, Ahmad scored and assisted last season is going to be a big challenge.
22:32 Indeed, Phil, the player on the name of most Sunderland fans' lips over the past couple of days was Matthijs Friggen.
22:41 There was reports suggesting that Sunderland had put in a £3.4 million bid.
22:46 It looks like a side in Belgium have beaten Sunderland to the punch on that side,
22:51 with reports suggesting that he is set for a medical over there.
22:55 So it's clear that Sunderland are active in the Stryker transfer market.
23:03 However, we know they were active in January and they tried very hard for Nemeth.
23:07 They didn't get that particular target.
23:09 I guess the key difference this window will have to be actually closing one of these deals.
23:16 Yes, for sure. I mean, they've closed one, haven't they? To be fair in Jemé.
23:21 Yes, I think what we're seeing is it's obviously the situation is probably a little bit fluid in terms of Stewart.
23:27 I think what seems pretty obvious is they do want to invest in another Stryker,
23:32 if they can, regardless of what happens with Stewart.
23:35 And when we spoke to Mo Bray a week or so ago, he said that loans were definitely a possibility later in the window,
23:41 but that primarily someone is still pushing to sign their own players to make permanent deals.
23:46 I think, given what you've just outlined there,
23:49 it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that they are trying to sign another Stryker for a permanent deal.
23:55 And then I suppose after that, it would then become dependent on what happened with Stewart.
24:00 And maybe if you felt you need another Stryker at the end of the window, you could then dip into the loan market.
24:06 But I think it's pretty obvious that they are pushing pretty hard to try and sign another Stryker on a permanent deal.
24:11 And given that we know they operate, I would imagine it to be a young player and potentially someone who we hadn't heard of before.
24:19 So I still think that's kind of the plan A, if you like.
24:23 And I still think that's what they'll be working towards in the near future.
24:25 But, as Joe kind of alluded to, Stewart remains a bit of an enigma at the moment.
24:30 And to be honest, as frustrating as it is,
24:33 I don't think we'll get much clarity on that for a good while yet, because until he's fully fit,
24:37 I don't think it works for anyone to be having serious discussions about his future.
24:42 So I think that one's going to be a little bit of a waiting game, unfortunately.
24:47 But I think that also puts the pressure on someone, as you said, to bring another one in.
24:52 Because I think, Hemi is exciting in that he just keeps popping up in the six-yard box.
24:57 And we saw for large spells of last season that that's not a natural thing for footballers to do.
25:02 And the amount of times you would look up and someone would have no one in the box,
25:05 no one in the six-yard box. And even when he has quiet games,
25:08 he doesn't seem to be contributing much, he seems to get in that area.
25:10 So that's really encouraging. But it's a huge ask for him to sort of lead the line for a Championship campaign.
25:17 When we're talking about someone being ambitious and trying to kick on from six,
25:20 no Stewart, no Ahmad at the moment.
25:23 You know, it's a lot of work to pick up and it certainly can't be down to Hemi or on his own.
25:30 Yeah, I really do like Hemi. I think for a six-foot-three striker,
25:33 he does seem to lose his man very often, which is quite impressive really.
25:37 He sort of goes to the ground and that doesn't mean...
25:40 He's not a target man in any way, shape or form, is he?
25:43 Very intelligent footballer.
25:44 It's just not his game at all.
25:47 And I think if people have no chance to see him yet and they're expecting sort of that all-action type player,
25:54 he's really not. First and foremost, he's very technical.
25:58 He wants to play little one-twos. He wants to play little give and goes.
26:02 That's certainly his style in his game, I think.
26:06 But as I say, there's a reason why he's got two,
26:09 maybe three goals, because he keeps popping up in the six-yard box.
26:13 And as I say, it seems simple, but it's just not natural for a lot of players.
26:18 And those players are hard to find where it does come naturally to them.
26:23 Yes, and if he was able to add through experience and coaching that sort of battering ram mentality,
26:31 for want of a better phrase, and really develop that area of his game,
26:33 we could have quite the play on our hands.
26:35 Do you want to talk about outgoings?
26:37 Paterson was loosely linked with an exit.
26:39 Dan Ballard was linked with West Ham. Danny Batts, obviously, still a big talking point.
26:43 Jack Clarke linked with a move away.
26:45 Lyndon Gooch last week as well.
26:49 There's one I'm missing.
26:51 So I think, who am I missing? I'm missing somebody.
26:55 Anyway, we'll continue. But Danny Batts was the big question, Joe, last week.
27:00 But Blackburn Rovers seem to have hit a little bit of a sticky wicket at the moment.
27:05 Yes, certainly an interesting one, as we've mentioned before.
27:07 Sunderland quite well stocked at centre-back now, and Mo Bra admitted that as well the other week,
27:11 bringing in Jenson Sealt, who we've still not seen.
27:15 Still not sure about his injuries out in the States,
27:17 but we've not seen him play in any of the friendlies. Maybe he'll play in the North Carolina game.
27:21 And then Triantis has come in as well. Also then with Ballard and O'Neill.
27:26 So the Batts one's an interesting one.
27:28 I don't think Sunderland will be in a rush to sell him.
27:32 From what we've heard at the Blackburn, and there's certainly interest from Blackburn,
27:36 they're looking for another experienced centre-half after letting Daniel Ayala go.
27:40 But then we're hearing these reports that they're going to find it difficult to sign any players,
27:44 even players with low fees or free agents and stuff.
27:48 So it's kind of a hard one to predict.
27:51 I think Danny Bart had an excellent season last season as he was voted the Supporters Player of the Year,
27:59 and was a really key figure in the side,
28:02 considering the season before when the team were in League One,
28:05 he wasn't always a regular starter when Alex Neil first came in.
28:08 The fact that he then came in and really showed what a kind of experienced,
28:12 solid pro he was and also a good leader on the pitch was really a testament to him last season.
28:17 So as I said before, I don't think Sunderland are going to be in a rush to let him leave.
28:21 But as you mentioned before on the podcast,
28:24 if a player wants to go somewhere else and could potentially get a better, longer contract somewhere,
28:29 I don't think Sunderland would stand in their way for someone to go and get maybe a better contract
28:34 and have more game time at another club.
28:37 So it is one to keep an eye on, but Danny Bart's been out in the States.
28:42 We know he's going to be professional.
28:44 He's going to be that sort of player that will just be business as normal for him.
28:49 He played the second half in the San Antonio game, and I thought he looked, as he did last season, pretty solid.
28:54 He was winning a lot of his headers in the air. He was playing in the middle of a back three.
28:57 He was organising the back line. What you'd expect from Danny Bart.
29:01 So it's one to keep an eye on.
29:04 But the other reports of Blackburn as well may also impact what they can kind of do in the transfer market.
29:10 Patrick Roberts was the other player I was thinking of that's been loosely linked with a move away.
29:15 Phil, we've talked a lot about Jack Clark and that transfer saga, for want of a better phrase, on this podcast.
29:20 That seems to have died down for the moment. It may well come back around.
29:23 Patrick Roberts, though, integral to Sunderland's season and making the playoffs last campaign.
29:28 A year left on his deal. We know Sunderland are likely trying to rectify that.
29:32 But a player you'd really want Sunderland to keep hold of, Mo Bray's a massive fan of him.
29:37 He's dubbed him one of the best players in the league several times.
29:41 That's an interesting transfer and contract question that perhaps goes under the radar slightly with the main talking points,
29:47 usually Clark and Ross Stewart.
29:49 Yeah, I think it goes a little bit under the radar because I think generally speaking,
29:53 I think everybody wants Roberts to stay and continue at Sunderland.
29:56 I think that's why maybe there hasn't been as much chat about that.
29:59 As you mentioned, there has been a little bit, which is right,
30:02 because he's going into the last day of his deal and other clubs will be monitoring that situation.
30:05 But I think for all the things you've reasoned, you've outlined there,
30:09 I think everyone knows Sunderland and Roberts are both onto a good thing, especially as you say with Mo Bray at the helm.
30:15 I have to say generally on the outgoing front, things feel quite stable to me.
30:19 That's my sense of it. I think all these things we're talking about,
30:23 I don't think too many of the outgoings have developed to a particularly serious stage at this point.
30:29 Clark's the only one really.
30:31 And even to that front, the bids have been well short of what Sunderland would deem acceptable.
30:36 As I mentioned, the interest in Bart is very concrete.
30:40 But at this stage, nothing's moved particularly close because of Sunderland's situation at the moment.
30:47 You know, Bart is still very much in contention for regular minutes.
30:52 So that's not me saying there aren't going to be outgoings this summer,
30:55 because I'm sure there will be one or two at some stage.
30:57 But for all the talk, I think things feel quite stable and quite settled.
31:03 And the fact that you've got this group, nobody's missed this US tour,
31:06 kind of underlines that I think, that nobody was at a point going into this tour where you sort of ummed and ahed about when they were going to go out.
31:12 Everyone at the moment is pretty settled and pretty stable.
31:15 So for me, I don't at the moment, I'm not overly concerned about that.
31:19 I think Sunderland are in a pretty good position on almost all of these,
31:23 almost all of these players in terms of having a relative level of control.
31:28 As you mentioned, Robert's contractual situation makes it slightly different.
31:31 But I do, I would be surprised if we didn't see some positive movement on that in the next few weeks, on the next couple of months.
31:38 So yeah, I think it's all these situations you have to watch because they can change so quickly,
31:42 especially when we're talking about Premier League money in some circumstances.
31:45 But I don't feel like it's a particularly anxious squad or an anxious club at the moment.
31:50 I think Germany's been there in a pretty good position.
31:53 And I don't think anything has developed massively up until this point,
31:57 albeit with the obvious caveat that there's still quite a while to go in the window.
32:02 Absolutely right, Phil and Joe. Thank you very much for joining me.
32:06 You can find the Raw podcast on all of your podcast platforms and now on the radio as well.
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32:21 all the coverage of pre-season, including the last game in America and the games against Majorca and Harley Pool United
32:28 as we build up to the Ipswich game at the beginning of August to start the championship season off.
32:34 Once again, thank you very much for listening to the Raw podcast.