Graham and Dave discuss the year's biggest releases so far - Barbie and Oppenheimer.
Are they any good? Will they win the Oscars? And which one is better?
Are they any good? Will they win the Oscars? And which one is better?
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FunTranscript
00:00 (upbeat music)
00:02 - Hello and welcome to the Scotsman's Mojo Dojo Casa House,
00:09 also known as Not Everyone's a Film Critic With Yourself.
00:13 Myself, sorry, Greg Rainfalk, and of course my co-host,
00:16 Dave Hepburn.
00:17 Dave, how are you doing?
00:18 You all right?
00:19 - I'm fine.
00:20 I'm knuff for anybody.
00:21 - I'm coming towards that thinking
00:24 that I might also be knuff at the same time.
00:28 Big week of cinema, let's be honest about it.
00:30 Huge week, probably the biggest in the year.
00:32 I think something we've sporadically discussed
00:35 on the shows in the past.
00:37 And whilst we do tend to have in-depth reviews
00:41 of all the films that have come out this week,
00:43 there was two films that have came out
00:44 that we need to delve deep into.
00:46 And we normally have a topic of the week.
00:47 If you're here for the topic of the week, turn off now,
00:50 because we're not gonna do that.
00:51 We're gonna be talking about "Barbie" and "Oppenheimer,"
00:53 or if you prefer, depending on the order you did it in,
00:56 "Barbenheimer."
00:57 First question, Dave, before we go into the reviews,
00:59 which order did you do it in?
01:01 - I did "Barbie" first and then "Oppenheimer,"
01:03 and I did them on separate days,
01:04 which I'm quite pleased about.
01:05 So I know those people have done the double bill.
01:07 I like going to double bills.
01:09 I sometimes see like five films in the cinema
01:11 in a day during festivals, but because of "Oppenheimer,"
01:14 I just think seeing anything before or after "Oppenheimer"
01:18 is such a big film, it's such a serious film,
01:21 takes a lot out of you,
01:22 and I just think it really deserves to be seen by itself.
01:25 So while it's lovely that people have been going to cinema,
01:27 and it's great seeing cinema, it's so busy.
01:28 I was in pretty much sold out screenings for both of them,
01:31 and it's lovely to see big queues for popcorn,
01:33 big queues to get tickets and everything else.
01:35 I do think that it does "Oppenheimer" in particular
01:38 a slight disservice to see another film next,
01:41 even if that film is as spectacularly good as "Barbie,"
01:44 which we'll get onto.
01:45 I kind of liked them both almost equally,
01:47 but we'll get onto that.
01:48 But yeah, really good seeing them both.
01:50 Good weekend to film. - Yeah.
01:51 (laughs)
01:53 Just to prove how much that the cost of living
01:55 is affecting everyone, journalists included,
01:57 we decided that the best option
02:00 would be to go and see "Barbie" first,
02:04 and then go and see "Oppenheimer" in VIP,
02:07 because that means we've got more time
02:08 to eat all the nachos.
02:09 More time to eat all of the popcorn.
02:12 - You're gonna be running a bit of a loss with the list,
02:14 because that is a long film, three hours of nachos.
02:17 You can really make a hole in the nacho bowl in that,
02:19 can't you?
02:20 - That's definitely the most nachos I've had,
02:23 and we arrived spot on time.
02:24 And then I got frustrated,
02:26 because it was a sold out VIP screening,
02:28 which is not normally the case, if I'm honest with you.
02:30 So I'm like three other people,
02:32 and one guy, he always turns up at VIPs,
02:34 at every screening.
02:35 Hasn't been out the last two.
02:36 I'm a bit worried about him.
02:38 Hope you're okay.
02:38 Never spoke to you,
02:39 but do obviously know you go all the time.
02:41 And normally you can just get in
02:43 and get all the pizza and stuff you want
02:45 from the buffet before you start.
02:46 And this one was like an actual queue,
02:47 and I was like, "The film starts in 45 minutes,
02:50 "and I don't wanna miss the trailers here.
02:51 "Like, honest to God, they better hurry up."
02:55 But it was also really good to see people
02:56 dressed up and stuff like that.
02:58 - Yeah.
02:59 - Also more so for Barbie, for obvious reasons.
03:03 But there's people going in like Hawaiian shirts
03:04 and denim vests and stuff like that.
03:06 None of them look anywhere near as good
03:07 as Ryan Gosling does in a denim vest.
03:09 - No, I guess, it was fantastic.
03:11 I went to see it at the GFT,
03:13 which is the independent cinema here in Glasgow,
03:15 which is a wonderful cinema.
03:16 - Of course you did.
03:17 Of course you did for the independent one.
03:19 - There were so many people wearing pink Felaer Boas.
03:22 But on our way out, it actually looked like a pink bird
03:26 had been massacred on the stairs
03:27 'cause there were pink Felaers all over the place.
03:29 It was brilliant.
03:30 It was very funny.
03:31 It was kind of like coming out of a sort of concert
03:33 by, what's his name, Harry Styles,
03:36 because he did some Felaer Boas as well.
03:37 So it was a bit like that.
03:38 So it was fantastic to see.
03:40 Everyone very excited about it, which is great.
03:42 - Yeah, it was really good.
03:43 And I think I went to the Barbie screening,
03:45 I think it was 10 to four.
03:47 And whilst you could probably find
03:48 one or two seats kicking about, it was sold out.
03:51 And then when we came out of Oppenheimer,
03:53 which was about half past 11, 11 o'clock we came out of it,
03:56 you could still see people piling out of Barbie.
04:00 And then when you got in the sort of center of Glasgow
04:03 and tried to get home to get the train,
04:05 everyone in the street was in pink.
04:07 You could tell who'd been to the cinema
04:09 and stuff like that.
04:10 And I think it was really good
04:11 because I think it wasn't that long ago,
04:13 like I was writing an article
04:15 and we were worried if cinema was gonna die
04:17 because essentially you couldn't get into screenings,
04:20 even the popular ones,
04:21 because you had to have two or three seats between you
04:24 and the pandemic and stuff.
04:25 And look, with like streaming,
04:28 we've discussed this before with streaming
04:30 and the ability to like, you know, have certain,
04:35 shall we say, products that can enable you to see things
04:38 that were at the cinema, unfortunately not legal.
04:41 And some people still do it.
04:45 There's a lot of other ways to see movies
04:46 that are not the cinema.
04:48 And then the cost of living crisis,
04:49 look, let's be honest,
04:51 the cinema can't always be your first priority.
04:53 It's sometimes putting food on the table.
04:55 And I think it was nice to see everyone,
04:58 you know, without going too serious,
05:00 going to the cinema and actually having fun
05:01 and going out and sort of enjoying themselves
05:03 and then looking forward to two movies
05:05 and then having opinions about it.
05:06 I mean, TikTok is absolutely full of Barbie stuff
05:09 at the moment, which is amazing.
05:11 I know there's been a backlash
05:15 to one of the particular movies,
05:16 but like, we're not babies here.
05:18 It's absolutely fine.
05:19 Like, we're not worried that our man-ness
05:21 is gonna disappear because Greta Gerwig
05:23 made some really valid points,
05:24 but we'll do it in the order that we've seen it.
05:28 So obviously we've all seen "Barbie" first.
05:31 So I'm gonna let you take the reins on this one
05:34 first and foremost,
05:35 but before I ask for like your view and your thoughts
05:37 on it and things like that,
05:39 is the irony of the "Barbie" movie
05:40 that as much as it's quote unquote,
05:42 anti-men, this is valid points,
05:45 that Ryan Gosling's actually the best part of it?
05:48 - Yeah, I mean, he is.
05:50 I was thinking about this.
05:52 I was kind of wanting to say,
05:53 oh no, actually he isn't really,
05:54 but he is the best.
05:56 And there's lots of good stuff in it, I think.
05:59 First off, I think "Barbie" is a wonderful film.
06:01 I was worried about it going in.
06:03 I didn't really know what it was gonna be like.
06:04 I'm a massive fan of Greta Gerwig.
06:06 I think she's barely put a foot wrong
06:07 in her acting and her directing career.
06:09 And I think a lot of people were going,
06:12 why is she doing this?
06:13 She's a kind of indie filmmaker.
06:16 She's an auteur.
06:17 And it seems like a very odd career move
06:20 to do a "Barbie" film.
06:21 But first up, it clearly is a Greta Gerwig film.
06:25 This is not a film that kind of Mattel
06:27 have okayed the script
06:29 and they've got like a gun for hire and to direct it.
06:32 It feels like a Noah Baumbach film.
06:34 It feels like a Greta Gerwig film.
06:36 It's fantastically literate, cine literate,
06:39 pop culture references just all over the place.
06:41 It begins with Kubrick.
06:43 It goes through, I mean, so many references.
06:46 You can go through it, like there's big websites
06:48 who are going through every single Easter egg
06:49 and every single pop culture reference.
06:51 But there's a joke about Stephen Malcomus,
06:53 the lead singer out of "Pavement."
06:54 And these are niche things, you know?
06:55 So it isn't an advert.
06:57 That was like, there's all these criticisms
06:59 being made of "Barbie"
07:00 and I just don't understand the majority of the criticism.
07:02 Some of the bad reviews,
07:03 it's almost like they've not seen the film
07:04 or they decided they didn't want to like the film.
07:08 And then they've kind of forced their criticisms
07:10 into their preconceptions.
07:11 So some people are saying,
07:12 I mean, this isn't a children's movie.
07:14 This is absolutely ridiculous that it's a "Barbie."
07:16 It's not a children's movie.
07:17 Well, it is a 12A.
07:18 The trailer makes clear what kind of film it is.
07:21 It's a funny film that teenagers will enjoy.
07:24 Is it for eight-year-olds?
07:25 No, it isn't for eight-year-olds.
07:26 It's got adult themes.
07:28 It's about the patriarchy and everything else.
07:29 So it isn't a kids' film.
07:31 And other people are saying.
07:32 - I also think, just to quickly touch on it,
07:35 I said before, quote, unquote, "anti-man."
07:37 And obviously that's a joke.
07:39 I don't believe it is in any way, shape, or the form.
07:41 It's actually very pro-man towards the end.
07:44 - It is.
07:45 - The end is kind of like, you know, you can be a Ken.
07:49 You can just be Ken.
07:50 It's fine.
07:51 - You can be an Alan as well.
07:52 We can all be Alans too.
07:53 The world would be a better place if there were more Alans.
07:56 I just don't get any of those criticisms either.
07:57 The anti-man thing, I mean, it is also a funny film.
08:00 So it's that thing that isn't a massively serious film,
08:03 but it also isn't like a joke film,
08:05 a kind of toy advert film.
08:08 It's somewhere in the middle.
08:08 It's a really good, fun film.
08:10 I laughed more in it than any film I can remember
08:14 for quite a long time.
08:15 I mean, the laughs were solid.
08:16 They were every, I was laughing every two minutes, you know.
08:19 - I was about to say,
08:20 I laughed more in it than I did Oppenheimer.
08:22 I was like, yeah, mate.
08:24 - Yeah, yeah.
08:25 I think Oppenheimer was maybe a one-laugh film,
08:27 and that was a nervous giggle.
08:28 But I laughed all the way through.
08:30 Okay, the plot is kind of derivative.
08:33 You know, it's a classic fish out of water thing,
08:35 like "Crock Down, Dundee" or any of these things.
08:37 But it works really nicely.
08:38 Coming back into "Barbie World,"
08:39 for those who don't know,
08:40 it basically goes between "Barbie World,"
08:42 which is this colorful pink land
08:44 where all the Barbies live,
08:45 and our real world,
08:47 which is even more misogynistic
08:50 than maybe the real world is.
08:51 And that's kind of used to make points
08:55 about the patriarchy and everything else.
08:56 But it's all done with a lightness of touch, I think.
08:59 And it's all genuinely funny.
09:00 I think you can enjoy it
09:01 without even thinking massively
09:03 about the political points that it's making.
09:06 Everyone's great in it.
09:07 Margot Robbie, you cannot imagine
09:08 anyone else playing that role.
09:09 It's one of these few film roles
09:11 where you go, "I can't see another actress
09:13 who could come close to playing that role."
09:14 She's absolutely brilliant.
09:15 She also produced it.
09:16 And she actually took the idea.
09:19 I think she took the idea of Greta Gerwig at first.
09:22 So it was her who came up with the idea,
09:24 went to Greta Gerwig, said, "Would you like to do this?"
09:26 She then went to Mattel and said, "I will do this,
09:28 but only if I have full creative control."
09:31 And you can see that.
09:32 So I loved it all the way through.
09:35 A couple of issues I have with it.
09:37 One, Dua Lipa clearly said,
09:39 "I want to be in it if I'm going to give you a song."
09:41 She only has two lines and she's awful.
09:43 I mean, Dua Lipa cannot act.
09:44 And it's a wee bit of a shame
09:45 because it kind of brings you out of it a little bit.
09:47 It's kind of one bit of stunt casting
09:49 which doesn't really work for me.
09:51 All the other stunt casting,
09:52 there's all sorts of crazy people in it
09:54 you would not expect to see.
09:55 And I won't even mention some of the names
09:56 because it would spoil it a wee bit.
09:58 But there's some cracking cameos and she's awful.
10:00 And then I thought that the ending
10:02 was kind of back of a fag pack at Willis Do.
10:06 Like it's kind of a very kind of wishy-washy
10:10 kind of Pinocchio,
10:12 we are all Barbie type of thing with flashbacks and stuff.
10:15 And it doesn't work, but then it is saved by,
10:17 genuinely I think one of the greatest final lines
10:20 in movie history.
10:21 I think the final line is as good as anything.
10:24 It's absolutely wonderful.
10:25 It was completely unexpected when it came up.
10:27 In our cinema screening,
10:29 it got a proper round of applause.
10:31 It was just wonderful.
10:32 So that kind of saves the ends.
10:33 But I don't think that it's the perfect film.
10:35 I'd give it like four stars
10:36 if I was gonna give it a star rating
10:38 because I don't think the ending quite works.
10:40 I think it gets a little bit bogged down in the middle.
10:42 I think the Mattel executives,
10:44 there's too much of them.
10:45 And I don't think they're that funny.
10:47 They're kind of a one joke
10:49 and the joke just happens again and again.
10:50 So I think they could have cut down
10:52 or even got rid of them completely.
10:54 But I think all the rest of it's lovely.
10:55 I think it's a great film for teenagers.
10:57 Is it for eight year olds?
10:58 No, it absolutely isn't,
10:59 but it isn't designed for eight year olds.
11:01 And it's another Greta Gerwig triumph.
11:04 And I genuinely think she'll go on to be nominated
11:06 for best director at the Oscars for this.
11:07 It'll definitely be up for best picture
11:09 because it's gonna be the most profitable film
11:10 of the year by far.
11:12 I mean, people are gonna go and see this
11:13 time and time and time again.
11:14 I'm going to go and see it again on Saturday
11:16 because there's so many wee jokes in there.
11:18 There's so many things happening in the background.
11:20 I'm sure that I miss lots of it.
11:21 And also you're laughing so much.
11:22 I think you miss some jokes.
11:24 It is that sort of comedy
11:27 where there's so many laughs, you're gonna miss things.
11:29 So looking forward to going to see it again.
11:31 I think it's wonderful.
11:32 It's a great, it's beautifully directed.
11:35 It looks amazing.
11:36 The design of it is brilliant and loved it.
11:39 Brilliant film.
11:40 - Yeah, same.
11:41 I give it an eight out of 10 for me.
11:43 I'm guessing yours was a four out of five.
11:45 Not as a four out of 10, I assume.
11:46 There was a point in it where I felt like
11:50 it was talking to me a little bit
11:52 for about 20 minutes and I was like,
11:55 "Okay, I kind of get it.
11:56 Like I understand the points you're making
11:59 and I a hundred percent agree,
12:00 but can we now please go into something funny
12:02 or into a plot?"
12:04 But the good thing about it was
12:05 as soon as I thought that, it did.
12:08 - Yeah, I mean, it does keep on moving on, doesn't it?
12:10 And then when you think maybe getting a wee bit
12:13 kind of formulaic,
12:14 suddenly you get that incredible dance number
12:16 with the Ken's that comes out of absolutely nowhere.
12:18 And it's kind of like it belongs in a different film,
12:20 but it's wonderful.
12:21 It's absolutely, I mean, the dance sequence is so good.
12:23 It lasts forever as well.
12:24 It's really, really fantastic.
12:26 - I found I was like keeled over laughing
12:31 when he does the "sublime!"
12:33 (laughing)
12:35 And also the bit when he was like,
12:37 "I want to find out the patriarchy
12:39 is not about men and their horses."
12:40 I wasn't actually that interested anyway.
12:42 (laughing)
12:44 - I mean, it's so quotable, isn't it?
12:45 Like some of these films are going to be quoted
12:47 and it is very memable, isn't it?
12:49 Which is why I presume I wouldn't do TikTok,
12:52 but I can see this on TikTok
12:54 and people will be doing the lines and everything
12:56 and it's great.
12:57 It's just great cinematic experience.
12:59 - And I think it's really funny that it's like
13:01 on the surface of it,
13:03 which I think is very much on the surface,
13:05 and this is not what I'm saying my opinion is,
13:06 but on the surface of it,
13:07 one film's about like basically female equality
13:11 or equality between genders and very pink and girly
13:15 and Barbie and raises some really like good political points
13:18 to a war movie, which is essentially about like men
13:21 trying to destroy the world
13:22 and their egos getting in the way and being womanizers.
13:25 And it's a lot deeper than that,
13:27 which we're going to get into with Oppenheimer,
13:28 but I thought it was quite good
13:29 that the two biggest movies of the year
13:31 were almost kind of direct,
13:32 sorry, directly different in many ways,
13:36 but also at the same time, very, very similar in other ways.
13:40 I love Barbie, like Ashley absolutely adored Barbie.
13:45 She thought it was brilliant.
13:47 And I think, you know, some of the scenes in it,
13:50 like I'm just thinking just now, I'm coming back to it.
13:52 The one when she's in the real world
13:53 and she runs over at the construction worker
13:55 and she goes, "Oh, a construction site.
13:56 There's got to be some women there."
13:58 And she goes over and she's like,
14:00 "It's all men."
14:01 And like, they're all like ogling her and stuff like that
14:03 and all that kind of thing.
14:04 And then they immediately fire in with a joke
14:06 about the fact that neither of them actually have genitals
14:09 because they're Barbie dolls, which is...
14:12 And also the line from "Weird Barbie,"
14:14 where she says, "I'd love to see what he's packing in his..."
14:18 I can't remember what she says,
14:19 but it's basically the fact that he doesn't have a penis.
14:22 - Yeah, I think it was like flesh build or something.
14:24 (laughing)
14:25 - Yeah, that was really good.
14:28 Some of it didn't make sense.
14:30 - No, I think that's fair to say.
14:32 I think a lot of it doesn't make sense.
14:33 I don't really understand the way
14:34 that they move between worlds.
14:36 I mean, basically the way that they seem to be able to do it
14:38 whenever they like and humans can do it
14:40 and Barbies can do it, none of that really worked.
14:42 - But it's also a big secret.
14:44 - But it's also a big secret, yeah.
14:45 - But I also want to point out
14:46 why did it take the Mattel people far longer
14:50 to get the Barbie dolls than the Barbie in 10?
14:52 'Cause Barbie in 10 were just like, "Do, do, do, do, do."
14:54 And the Mattel people were like,
14:55 "Oh God, this is a real length."
14:57 And I also, I don't, I didn't,
15:00 and this is me being ultra critical.
15:02 I think it's a great movie.
15:03 I think it will become a classic.
15:04 I think it'll be played for years and years and years.
15:06 I think 20 years time.
15:07 People will still be talking about it
15:09 and it's definitely gonna make an impact
15:11 and it definitely raises some amazing points,
15:12 but we're here to be balanced as we can be.
15:15 And I thought that the bit that,
15:17 another bit that didn't make sense to me
15:18 was how it was the mom that was actually
15:21 the one that was making her into a weird Barbie
15:24 when she was flat with her feet
15:25 and thought of death and all that kind of stuff.
15:27 The line, "Does anyone ever think about dying?"
15:29 Brilliant, 'cause the way that it makes everyone drop
15:31 and kind of go, "What?"
15:32 And the way that it brings you back
15:33 to the actual real world of maybe what,
15:36 mortal beings like me and you may feel
15:38 or people in non-Barbie world may feel.
15:41 I felt like the mom feeling like the way she did
15:45 didn't really equate to thought of death.
15:48 - No, I think really there are some plot holes there
15:51 and some bits were slightly underdone,
15:54 but I think it's one of these films
15:55 that you don't really want to think about too much.
15:58 (laughing)
15:59 - Yeah, I think so.
16:00 And I think that's the problem.
16:01 I think people sometimes are thinking far too deep into it.
16:05 And funnily enough, when I was thinking deep into it,
16:07 that's the bit when I started getting lost a little bit
16:09 and when they brought it back to the hilarious, funny,
16:11 like really, like almost like witty jokes.
16:14 It was kind of like a snappy teenager, early 20 something,
16:20 like giving me their opinion on the world,
16:21 which I kind of like, obviously Greta Gerwig's fault,
16:24 not a teenager, I was gonna say far older,
16:27 making her sound really old, she's not.
16:29 But obviously she's not a kid,
16:30 but like it was funny in the way she presented that world.
16:33 But I thought, you know, all of it was great.
16:36 I thought almost every single cameo and role was fantastic.
16:40 I thought Michael Cera had a great return to form.
16:42 I haven't seen him for ages.
16:43 - Yeah, he's not done much of "Note" for a long time
16:45 and he was perfectly cast as Alan.
16:47 He was really, really good as Alan.
16:48 - Yeah, he was very, very good.
16:51 But I just think if we're talking best supporting actor,
16:54 like Ryan Gosling, so they are.
16:56 - Yes, I think that he'll definitely be nominated
16:58 as well, he'll win or not, I'm not sure.
17:00 I thought this America Ferreira was very, very good as well
17:04 'cause she's not been in a huge amount of stuff
17:06 and she's a really good actress.
17:07 And she does that wonderful monologue
17:09 about how hard it is to be a woman
17:11 and it's a properly great monologue.
17:12 And again, in our screening,
17:14 which I have to say our screening was,
17:16 I would say about 80 to 90% women,
17:19 which again is a good thing in the cinema
17:21 'cause often it can be very male dominated
17:23 to the rest of the films and stuff.
17:25 But there was another big round of applause
17:26 after that monologue,
17:28 which was really nice to hear as well.
17:29 People really getting involved in the film.
17:32 So I think she might be a wee chance
17:33 for best supporting actress as well
17:35 'cause I thought she did great work.
17:37 - Controversial opinion, that was around the time
17:39 when I started switching off a bit.
17:41 But it was mainly, it was mainly
17:45 because I was agreeing with everything she said
17:49 and I was like, I know this.
17:51 This is a five minute segment.
17:53 This is a five minute segment
17:54 where Ryan Gotham could have said something funny.
17:58 I know what he's saying, I agree with all of it.
18:00 But to be fair, on a serious note,
18:03 I looked at Ashley as the monologue was going
18:04 and her face was like this.
18:06 - Yeah.
18:08 - And I was like, okay.
18:09 - You don't hear enough of that in the cinema, I think.
18:12 And I think that it's spoken to lots of people watching.
18:15 Which I think is a very good thing indeed.
18:17 - 100% and I think almost like it should make
18:20 a lot more sense to a woman than it should me
18:22 because I haven't, fortunately haven't lived that
18:26 without going too deep,
18:27 that kind of oppression that they obviously have.
18:29 Which is why the line in the monologue
18:31 has probably been the most popular part of the entire film.
18:34 But total triumph, absolutely loved it.
18:37 Eight out of 10, thought it was great.
18:38 Wanna go see it again, hilariously memorable.
18:41 Still not Ryan Gotham's best role,
18:43 but for me his third best role.
18:44 But nothing will ever beat "Drive"
18:45 and nothing will ever on this planet ever be,
18:48 'cause "Drive" is very man.
18:49 Drive, man.
18:50 I drive, you shut up.
18:54 But "Larsen & Realgirl" is my favorite movie
18:58 by Ryan Gosling.
18:58 And if you haven't seen it,
18:59 if you're new to Ryan Gosling,
19:01 you weren't that far back with Ryan Gosling.
19:02 I was on the Ryan Gosling train right from the beginning
19:04 that Ryan Gosling basically came out the womb,
19:07 so it seemed.
19:08 But Ryan Gosling's best movie is "Larsen & Realgirl".
19:12 If you haven't seen it, he's a lonely man,
19:16 very, very weird, borderline eccentric, borderline loner.
19:20 Well, no, not borderline.
19:21 He's a loner and that lives in his brother's garage.
19:23 They want him to make friends
19:24 and have a friendship and whatnot.
19:26 And he turns up one day and says,
19:27 I've got a girlfriend I've been speaking to on the internet
19:29 and it's a sex doll.
19:31 And at that point you think, oh my God,
19:32 this is gonna be like one of those slapstick Ted comedies.
19:35 That's gonna be like awful.
19:36 It's not, it's the most heartwarming movie ever
19:38 about a man with basically a delusion
19:41 and a mental health issue.
19:42 And how the community bands around him.
19:45 And I won't spoil any more, but if you haven't seen it,
19:48 you're kind of into Ryan Gosling now because of "Barbie".
19:50 Go see it, it's by far his best.
19:52 I'm pretty certain everyone else has seen "Drive"
19:54 because it's kind of his most popular,
19:57 probably prior to "Barbie".
19:58 But yeah, I thought it was great.
20:00 I thought "Margot Robbie" was excellent.
20:02 I thought Ryan Gosling totally stole the show,
20:04 if I'm honest.
20:05 Lots of good cameos.
20:06 John Cena, hilarious as a merman.
20:09 And just a good movie.
20:11 But I preferred "Open Nightmare"
20:15 because obviously I'm a man and I like to destroy the world.
20:19 - You like blowing things up.
20:21 You like watching the world burn.
20:22 - Oh, things are exploding.
20:24 This is so manly.
20:25 - You're so like Ken.
20:28 - But I thought, you know,
20:29 the key thing when I came out of it,
20:31 I could never, three hours of a movie,
20:32 I'm a film fan, but three hours of any movie is difficult.
20:36 Especially like if you're gonna not pick a floor with it.
20:38 But I came out and I'm very like,
20:40 sometimes I'll like,
20:42 I felt last year I give things 10 out of 10 quite easily.
20:46 And I was like, "Ah, maybe I'm being a bit too like that."
20:48 So even like "The Whale",
20:49 which I absolutely adored, got a nine from me.
20:51 "Evil Dead Rise" got a 10, but that's still deserving of it.
20:55 I don't regret that.
20:56 Too much gore and blood and fun for me to give anything less.
21:00 But with "Oppenheimer" I felt,
21:02 I came out and I was like, "Right, yeah, it's a solid nine."
21:07 Because it's a nine, because of it.
21:09 Because, and then I realized
21:11 there was no part of the movie I didn't like,
21:13 and I was completely engrossed for three hours.
21:15 And there was not,
21:15 and I know some people have picked
21:17 sort of holes in it and stuff, but.
21:18 And I'm not a Christopher Nolan, not,
21:21 I'm not a good Christopher Nolan bro, you know, like,
21:23 yeah, "Batman", yeah, loved his "Batman" movie.
21:26 So the trilogy was amazing.
21:27 I thought "Interstellar" was absolute cack.
21:29 I thought "Inception" was far too complicated
21:33 and unnecessary and tried to be more intelligent
21:35 than it needed to be.
21:36 And I haven't enjoyed a lot of his recent stuff.
21:40 I didn't watch "Dunkirk".
21:41 I'm not really into my war movies, so I didn't watch it.
21:43 And I know it sounds weird saying I'm not into my war movies
21:45 and I watch "Oppenheimer", but it is different.
21:48 Like "Oppenheimer" didn't feel like a war movie
21:50 so much as it was more of a court case movie at points.
21:53 - It's more of a procedural.
21:55 I mean, it does a lot of genres, doesn't it?
21:56 It kind of works between genres.
21:58 But no, I would agree, it isn't a war film at all.
22:01 - But I came out and I was just like,
22:02 I can't give it anything less than a 10.
22:04 I was fully engrossed.
22:06 I loved it.
22:06 And the more I've thought about it over the week,
22:08 so I've seen it on Friday when I was speaking on Thursday,
22:10 so I'm six days on from it.
22:11 Time to relax, refresh.
22:13 Like, is it really a 10 out of 10?
22:15 It's gone from being not just a 10 out of 10,
22:16 but it's like one of my top 10 movies of all time.
22:19 I don't know where I would place it yet,
22:20 but I just thought it was fantastic.
22:22 The suspense, the moment when the atomic bomb goes off,
22:27 I'm not giving any spoilers away there.
22:29 If you don't know,
22:30 the atomic bomb goes off in "Oppenheimer", I'm sorry.
22:31 (laughing)
22:33 - Yeah, that's not a spoiler.
22:36 - When there's like the silence and he's like,
22:39 and there's total silence and it's going off.
22:40 And then when the explosion goes off,
22:42 everyone in the cinema like cack themselves.
22:44 Everyone just went.
22:45 But it was just so like,
22:47 yeah, it was a brilliant, brilliant movie.
22:48 And I just thought, you know,
22:50 as good as Ryan Gosling was,
22:51 as good as everyone was in "Barbie",
22:53 if Cillian Murphy doesn't receive an Oscar
22:56 for that performance,
22:58 then the Oscar should be closed down and ended permanently
23:01 because he was absolutely phenomenal.
23:05 It's a man that is quite obviously a scientific genius,
23:08 a womanizer and a very difficult character
23:10 that was obviously very difficult to get on with,
23:12 but easy to respect.
23:13 And I felt he ticked off all those things
23:16 I've just said perfectly, but it was brilliant.
23:18 And 10 out of 10 for me, I thought it was amazing.
23:20 I don't know if you felt quite as strongly, but let me know.
23:23 - Well, I've got, I mean,
23:24 I have always had a problem
23:26 with Christopher Nolan's filmmaking.
23:27 I like his earlier films.
23:28 I actually quite like "Inception".
23:30 I think "Tenet" was an absolute mess.
23:32 I am in two minds about this film.
23:34 I think it is an exceptional film.
23:35 So that, first off, I think it is an exceptional film.
23:37 Is it a better film than "Barbie"?
23:38 Yes, it probably is.
23:39 But I mean, they're so different.
23:41 It is comparing apples with oranges,
23:42 and that's one of the great things about cinema,
23:43 that you can have very, very different things.
23:45 I'm not sure how you exactly compare them.
23:48 But what I would say is that I thought the first third
23:51 was a mess of a film like only Christopher Nolan can do.
23:56 Because when you're,
23:57 here's the point where he's meant to be setting the scene.
23:59 He's meant to be introducing you
24:01 to this very complex character.
24:02 And what he does is he does,
24:04 and this happens, then this happens,
24:05 then this happens, then this happens.
24:07 And it's very short, snappy scenes,
24:08 which is understandable if you're setting the scene.
24:11 But what he does is he does short, snappy scenes
24:13 going backwards and forwards in time
24:15 without really introducing you to any of the timeframes.
24:18 So maybe I'm stupid,
24:20 but for the first 20 minutes or 30 minutes of film,
24:23 I didn't really know where I was.
24:25 I didn't know where I was
24:26 in relation to the invention of the bomb.
24:28 I didn't know if he was back at university,
24:30 what stage of his career he was at,
24:32 who he was married to, who he's having an affair with.
24:35 It felt all very bitty in a funny way,
24:38 like "Tenet" in that he can't help himself.
24:40 He has two different timeframes.
24:42 He has to spin backwards and forwards,
24:44 challenging the audience to an extent,
24:45 which I think is unhelpful.
24:47 I will go and see it again,
24:48 because I think much like "Tenet"
24:50 and much like a lot of his films,
24:51 I think it'll be much better second time round
24:53 'cause I'll know what's happening for that first third.
24:56 Whereas I just, I was kind of sitting there,
24:58 it gave me a slight headache.
24:59 There's all the very noisy bits.
25:00 There's all the flashy bits and everything else,
25:02 which make it very cinematic,
25:04 but I was confused and it gave me a bit of a headache.
25:07 Now, the moment they get to "Los Alamos,"
25:09 which is about a third in, from there on in,
25:12 it is, as far as I'm concerned, a perfect film.
25:14 I think you're absolutely right.
25:15 It is. It is brilliant.
25:16 And then the final third, I think,
25:18 is as majestic a thing as I will see in cinema this year.
25:21 My other massive issue with it,
25:23 and I don't want to be all, "Oh, I'm terribly woke,"
25:26 but the two female characters
25:28 are so horrifically underserved by the film.
25:30 There's definitely a cut of this film somewhere
25:33 where there's at least 30 minutes more of Florence Pugh.
25:38 She's in it for about 10 minutes.
25:40 She, I mean, spoilers,
25:41 she doesn't end up very well in the film.
25:44 You're not really introduced to her character.
25:45 You don't really understand why he's kind of,
25:48 is he obsessed with her?
25:49 He seems to get rid of her quite quickly.
25:51 You don't really understand why she's there.
25:54 And then Emily Blunt, who is his wife,
25:57 again, the timeframe I got a bit mixed up,
25:59 but Emily Blunt,
26:00 you don't really understand why he got married to her
26:02 because he doesn't seem to like her very much.
26:04 And then there's a point in the film
26:05 where suddenly she seems to be a bit of an alky.
26:08 Well, then suddenly she's like rubbing her forehead,
26:10 downing the wine and going, "Oh, your kids, your kids."
26:12 You're going, "Where did that come from?"
26:14 Then it completely vanishes, that whole thing.
26:16 Then there's a point in the film,
26:17 and please, please tell me what this is all about, Graeme.
26:20 There's a point where he goes
26:21 and he gives away one of their kids to somebody.
26:24 - Yeah, I think, yeah.
26:25 Yeah, okay, fair enough, yeah.
26:27 - And then they don't come back to it.
26:27 It's completely left out.
26:29 Why did that happen?
26:30 Did he ever get the kids back?
26:32 Presumably he did, but that's quite a major point.
26:34 - No, he did.
26:34 - He gives away a child.
26:36 - He gets them back.
26:37 You see it later on, he goes to pick them up.
26:38 - Do you? - It's because of,
26:40 I think it was,
26:41 I think they kind of defended Nolan a bit,
26:45 'cause I get your point,
26:47 but I think to kind of sum up the entirety of-
26:52 - Yeah.
26:53 - His life in three hours,
26:55 'cause we discussed it, we were like,
26:56 right, made a bomb, regretted it.
26:58 That's 90 minutes, not three hours.
27:00 However, when I kind of noticed how,
27:04 I don't want to say messy,
27:05 but complex this guy was across multiple different
27:08 facets of life in general,
27:10 like down to relationship, trauma,
27:13 being actually really clever,
27:15 being also very politically centred in his beliefs,
27:19 and also not really a communist,
27:20 but then also kind of a total communist.
27:22 - Yeah.
27:23 - Or whatever you want to call the communist,
27:24 I don't know.
27:25 We don't know what you call them these days,
27:26 or what you call anyone who has a belief in anything,
27:28 anything these days.
27:30 I think it was actually quite good
27:33 that he packed it into that much.
27:34 And I wonder if that would have swung the story off too much,
27:38 but then at the same time,
27:39 you could say, was there any point in really including it?
27:42 'Cause it didn't really,
27:44 it didn't make me think any more, any less of him.
27:46 If anything, it made me go,
27:48 oh God, Emily Blunt's character's just a raging alcoholic
27:51 that can't even look after her own kids.
27:52 Oh man, this guy's had it so hard.
27:54 - But that's right,
27:55 but then she kind of comes back at the end,
27:56 and then she does-
27:57 - And it's so amazing.
27:58 - A full monologue, and she's amazing.
28:00 And he's basically saying she's amazing,
28:01 and going, what changed between that and that bit?
28:03 But I do agree with you that I was thinking
28:05 three hours is far too long for any story, really,
28:08 but it isn't long enough.
28:09 I mean, I got the feeling when I left the cinema,
28:11 I was thinking, you know what?
28:12 That would be a really good 10-part blockbuster TV series.
28:17 10 hours of that.
28:18 I could happily spend 10 hours in this man's life.
28:21 'Cause you're right, so complicated.
28:23 So many things happening,
28:24 and he was on the kind of fault line of history
28:28 in so many different ways.
28:30 And he was the most famous man in the world at one point,
28:32 and that's the last line.
28:34 And again, like Barbie, the last line, my word,
28:37 that is some last line of a film at the end.
28:39 I'm not gonna spoil it for anybody,
28:41 but to say it gave me goosebumps
28:43 and made me feel pretty dumb would be understating it.
28:46 It's a devastating, devastating end.
28:48 I don't know about you, but Earth Cinema,
28:50 it was that thing where everyone just sat in silence
28:52 for about two minutes after the credits started rolling
28:56 and didn't really move,
28:57 and we're just kind of sitting there,
28:59 caught up in the thoughts.
29:00 'Cause it's a properly bleak ending,
29:02 and it's the only ending they could have really done,
29:05 I suppose.
29:06 But yeah, I agree, three hours didn't seem long enough.
29:08 I think that if anything,
29:10 he should have maybe skipped Florence Pugh's character
29:12 completely because I don't think it really requires
29:16 an actress of her stature.
29:18 - I thought she was amazing in it,
29:20 but I mean, obviously it's made the headlines,
29:24 the sick scenes made the headlines because-
29:27 - But I thought it was done very well.
29:29 - It was.
29:30 - I thought it was done very well,
29:31 and actually the way that it gets transposed
29:33 into the kind of interrogation,
29:35 like leaving him actually physically naked
29:38 in front of his interrogators,
29:39 I thought that was done very well,
29:40 and I had no problem with the nudity there.
29:42 Sometimes we see nudity in a film,
29:44 you go, "That's not really earned,"
29:46 but I thought that it was earned.
29:47 So I didn't really have any issues with that.
29:49 I just think that there should be more of Florence Pugh,
29:51 and I think that there should be more of an explanation
29:53 as to these two relationships and how,
29:57 because I just didn't understand
29:58 why he was having an affair with Florence Pugh particularly.
30:01 - It seemed that he was completely
30:03 and utterly obsessed and in love with her,
30:05 but because she would refuse to accept
30:07 such a little thing as flowers,
30:09 he was, what's happening with my hair, by the way?
30:12 And that seemed to be like,
30:14 oh, well, I'll just marry Emma Blunt instead.
30:17 - He felt a bit sorry for Emily Butler.
30:21 - I felt quite, it's funny,
30:23 the big part of Oppenheimer's story,
30:25 which I didn't actually realize,
30:26 now, unless Wikipedia's lying to me,
30:28 I believe he had a daughter
30:32 that died a year after him as well, due to suicide,
30:37 according to Wikipedia as well.
30:39 So there's extra parts that came after his story as well.
30:43 But yeah, they really honed in on that relationship
30:46 when, if you kind of look through his history,
30:48 there wasn't a great deal, but on the flip side,
30:50 it was very nice to see Florence Pugh in it, I think.
30:53 She's so adaptable.
30:56 - She's absolutely brilliant.
30:58 I mean, Emily Blunt is absolutely brilliant as well.
31:00 And also, we should talk a little bit
31:01 about the supporting cast.
31:03 I kind of felt like after watching the two films
31:05 that everybody in Hollywood,
31:06 every single actor of stature was in either Barbie
31:09 or was in Oppenheimer.
31:10 I don't think anyone was in both of them.
31:12 - Gary Oldman. - I was surprised.
31:13 Yeah, Gary Oldman popping up,
31:14 and Kenneth Branagh popping up.
31:16 Lovely to see Casey Affleck.
31:18 And he's not been in anything for a while.
31:20 And he's brilliant in it.
31:21 He's probably evil.
31:22 He comes on screen and he's like,
31:23 "Oh, this is a wrong arm.
31:24 This is definitely a wrong arm."
31:25 - He has his role.
31:26 - Rami Malek has got nothing to do until one scene,
31:29 which he absolutely nails.
31:31 But Rami Malek just hangs around the background
31:33 looking weird like Rami Malek does.
31:34 Then he has that one great moment.
31:36 Everyone's got one superb moment in the film, I think,
31:38 which is nice.
31:39 You get big name actors who you think,
31:41 well, they're not doing very much with that.
31:42 And then suddenly you go, "Ah, yes, no.
31:44 I can understand why Kenneth Branagh's doing that.
31:46 I can understand why Robert Downey Jr.
31:48 is just exceptional in it as well."
31:49 Everyone's really good.
31:50 I mean, I think this could get Oscar.
31:52 I mean, this could get a lot of supporting Oscar noms.
31:54 I mean, you could easily see,
31:56 well, I mean, three of the cast anyway.
31:59 And I think it's definitely once
32:00 could get Best Supporting Actress for that,
32:02 for that one monologue she does again,
32:04 a bit like in Barbie with Merica Ferreira.
32:06 It's another brilliant monologue from a woman
32:09 in this film as well.
32:10 So yeah, there's going to be a lot of,
32:11 a lot of acting awards here.
32:13 - Just to fly in the face of the message of Barbie though,
32:15 it kind of backed Barbie up by the fact that they had
32:18 one woman scientist that was in there
32:21 and they literally made her make tea.
32:23 - Yes, yeah.
32:24 It's absolutely, it's absolutely.
32:26 - After seeing Barbie, I felt like when I seen her
32:28 and they were like, she was just making the tea
32:29 and occasionally protesting things.
32:31 I was like, "Listen to her.
32:33 If you haven't seen, this will really help.
32:37 This will really help your co..."
32:38 You've lost her, she's gone.
32:41 But I did really, on a serious note,
32:45 I thought both films were fantastic,
32:46 but for me, Oppenheimer was great.
32:49 It was amazing.
32:51 I mean, I kind of want to like Barbie more,
32:54 if I'm honest with you, than Oppenheimer,
32:56 because I've not been impressed with anything
32:57 Nolan's done since like the Dark Knight Rises,
32:59 to be completely honest,
33:01 which has not been on for well over a decade now.
33:03 But I went there with an expectation
33:05 that this was going to be a return to form,
33:07 but not like one of his best.
33:09 And I think the fact that has been given,
33:12 I think it's 94% on Rotten Tomatoes.
33:15 Barbie's Got 90 probably speaks to the fact
33:18 that what we've said about the films,
33:20 the majority of the world probably agrees
33:23 with how highly rated they are,
33:24 how good they've been, how amazing both films are
33:27 and how one just edges the other one, but brilliant.
33:30 I mean, two films that were so like massively expected
33:34 to be huge hits, regardless of whether they're good or not,
33:37 are both really great films,
33:39 both probably films of the year.
33:40 You can swing either way, whichever way you want with it,
33:42 Barbie, or you can swing towards Oppenheimer.
33:45 Both have been fantastic.
33:46 Both have been really enjoyable.
33:48 Both will probably be film of the year,
33:50 unless, and I'm going to leave you with this.
33:52 So by the time this goes out,
33:53 which will either be Thursday or Friday,
33:55 Talk to Me is going to be released in cinemas.
33:58 Now, unlimited screening,
34:00 and the other day it was a secret screening,
34:02 which I didn't realize, which I'm a bit annoyed about.
34:03 - Oh, was it?
34:05 - I'm going to see it tomorrow,
34:06 but it's received higher Rotten Tomatoes rating
34:11 than both Barbie and Oppenheimer of 96.
34:14 - My words, interesting.
34:17 - So we'll hold on to that thought for next week.
34:20 See if Oppenheimer and Barbie are the best two films.
34:22 But I think ultimately, Dave,
34:24 you can tell me what you think's better.
34:26 I've gone Oppenheimer slightly better,
34:27 but if you want a review of the films,
34:29 both brilliant, were filled in 36 minutes of time,
34:32 which we normally have to fill in with a topic
34:33 of other films and all sorts of stuff to fill in.
34:35 We could probably go for another 36 minutes
34:37 if we really wanted to.
34:39 Both films amazing, both worth seeing.
34:41 Both films of the year so far,
34:43 apart from maybe The Whale,
34:44 I think they lived up to the hype 100%
34:48 and I slightly preferred Oppenheimer.
34:50 - Yes, I would not be able to separate them.
34:52 I like them both in very different ways.
34:53 I mean, Mission Impossible for me is right up there as well.
34:56 To have those three films,
34:57 this is kind of stolen Mission Impossible thunder,
34:59 but to have those three films out within,
35:01 I don't know, three weeks or something
35:02 is absolutely magnificent and good for cinema
35:04 and just lovely to see people in cinema
35:06 and talking about cinema and excited about cinema.
35:08 It's one of these things,
35:09 everyone's got an opinion on both films
35:10 and it's great just to be able to talk to people.
35:12 Often people haven't seen films that you've seen,
35:14 but you can talk to anyone down the pub about it
35:16 and it's just lovely to see cinema in such good health.
35:18 So more of this kind of thing, please.
35:20 It's all good.
35:21 - Yes, agreed.
35:22 Thanks for joining us as always.
35:24 - Thanks for having me.
35:25 (upbeat music)
35:27 (upbeat music)