Bibliofile: Actor Parikshat Sahni On His Book ‘Non Conformist Memories Of My Father Balraj Sahni’
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00:00 he told me very early in life, don't think of me, be a first rate Parikshit Saini, don't
00:08 be a third rate Bhagrat Saini, don't copy me and be yourself. I have not ever taken
00:15 acting as seriously as he did.
00:24 Hello, welcome to Outlook Bibliophile. Today we have veteran actor Parikshit Saini with
00:30 us who has come out with a riveting biography of his father, the late Balraj Saini, the
00:35 iconic actor. Sir, when this idea of writing a biography of your father occurred to you?
00:42 Well, it happened many years ago, you know, when there was another editor in Delhi, some
00:49 lady, who said you must write about your dad and she made you a contract but I couldn't
00:55 do it. It is only about a year and a half ago when my friend Ali Peter John, he's a
01:04 journalist, he said that I have read your articles and your short story in the Illustrated
01:12 Weekly of India long ago and you must write about your dad. So he kept, I said, yeah,
01:17 it's not possible, I can't do it, I'm not a, I mean, I don't have the time but he kept
01:23 insisting and I decided to go ahead and do it. And then of course there was a lady called
01:31 Madam Harshi Sial Gill from L.A. She's an old friend of mine, her brother is a friend
01:38 of mine, Dr. Sial. These two helped me a lot in writing the book. They helped me because
01:44 he's an author. So that's how it started.
01:47 So non-conformist memoirs of my father. I have gone through the book and what is remarkable
01:53 about the book that it's a very honest account of the man behind the great actor. I mean,
01:59 it lays bare a doting father, a loving husband, a great friend and all that beneath the exterior
02:06 of the actor. But it must have been very tough for you as a son to write an honest biography,
02:13 to be objective about your own dad. Was it difficult?
02:17 Yeah, it was difficult. It was difficult because I had to resurrect a lot of memories. He died
02:25 many years ago, 1973, more than 40 years ago. But once I had started thinking, it all came
02:37 back. And the more I thought about it, the clearer the picture became. And all the moments
02:44 I spent with him. And it was a labor of love actually. It was difficult. All writing is
02:51 difficult. But it was kind of a very exciting and like a catharsis. It was very nice.
03:01 Because on many occasions you must have faced this dilemma whether as a son you should write
03:07 something about him which was not very charitable or something like that.
03:12 I don't think I have written anything that is uncharitable.
03:15 But exactly like the way he was.
03:19 Yeah, but I mean, there is no point in writing if you are not being truthful. So, you have to be truthful.
03:26 So, I tried to be as true as possible to my memories. -That is remarkable. -I mean, I didn't want to glorify the man.
03:35 Because he was as it is a very great, great, great man. But show a side of him which was very human. That was the idea.
03:44 And you have completely succeeded as a writer in the way he was. You did not try to project him as a dreamy God.
03:52 Thanks a lot for saying that. I tried to be as objective as possible. Yeah. -Amitabh Bachchan in the foreword to this book
04:01 has written that when he set out to begin his journey in Bollywood, his father the great Harivansh Rai Bachchan advised him to be like Balraj
04:09 Sahni. -Yeah, yeah. -He said that he is still, he is in the industry and yet not in it. What exactly did he mean by that?
04:16 By that he meant the simple thing like not being a, being a non-conformist. I mean, he lived as he wished.
04:25 He didn't become a part of the glamour world. He was a Marxist. He lived in simple living, high thinking.
04:34 He was an intellectual. He was a writer. He had done his MA from Government College Lahore. He had lived with Gurudev.
04:43 And Shantiniketan. -And Shantiniketan. He had lived with Ghadiji in Sevagram. He had spent four or five years in England in the BBC.
04:52 So, he was a very well read and a rounded personality. He didn't, I mean, take film, filming his sole purpose in life.
05:01 He wanted to master the craft, he did that. But he was much, I mean, he didn't conform to the film industries norms.
05:12 He did what he felt like. -He has given remarkable films like from Do Bhi Ka Jameen to Seema. -Garh Bhawa.
05:22 To Kaabliwala, what? -Garh Bhawa. -Up to his song song Garh Bhawa. But while reading the book one gets the feeling that he
05:32 sometimes felt that he was given a raw deal in the industry. Do you think that he was not given a due during his lifetime?
05:39 I have written about that. -Yes. -Yeah, they didn't take him that seriously. Because he didn't conform.
05:47 He didn't go around in big cars and wear shranky suits or attend parties and things. He lived on his own terms.
05:55 So, that's why he was somewhere down the line and he didn't go in for publicity or he didn't want any publicity.
06:04 So, many people, you know, sort of criticized him for that. I have written in my book that one writer, great writer, friend of mine said he is a fraud.
06:13 But I don't know why he said it. But after he died, slowly his fame has grown. People have come to realize that he was far ahead of his time as far as acting goes. And he was.
06:29 That's true because Javed Akhtar of all people has been quoted as saying that he ranks among the top three stars of all times.
06:37 Along with Dilip Kumar and Amitabh Bachchan. -Yeah, yeah. -So, with that kind of… But he was a Marxist, conformed Marxist all his life. -He was a conformed. Yeah.
06:48 Do you think that his political belief, because he was a Marxist when country was ruled by a different political party.
06:55 So, he was kind of in the establishment and all. So, did political beliefs of an actor affect his career in India? -Absolutely, absolutely.
07:04 Even in those days? -Yeah, it's a fact. An actor has to do what he is asked to do. I mean, if he played Dubey Garzameen, the role of a poor peasant,
07:14 he also played in a movie called, I mean, he played a very rich man in other films. What was the name of that film? In, let's say… -Vakht.
07:30 Not Vakht, he played a very poor man. But Ek Phool Do Mali. He was a very rich man. -Yeah. -Talash, he was played a billionaire.
07:39 So, his job as an actor is to metamorphose himself. But in real life, his sympathies were with the common man. -True.
07:49 Yeah. -True. So, the book also portrays him to be a quintessential family man. -Yeah. -He had the kind of bond he had with you.
08:00 You used to go on trips together, adventurous trips together. -Yeah. -You used to swim together in the sea. -Yeah. -And you dive deep into the frozen lakes in Kashmir and all that.
08:09 Yeah, yeah, yeah. -So, that bonding, he also had that kind of bonding with the rest of the family. -Yes, he was a family man. He loved…
08:17 He was a man who loved everything. I mean, love was his basic tenet. And he loved every member of the family and he actually kept the family…
08:26 He bound the family together in many ways, you know. -But you have also mentioned that you shared a kind of stormy relationship.
08:34 Yeah, when I was growing up, you see, adolescence, you are a rebel, every young man is, you know. And yeah, I had a…
08:45 I mean, I blamed him for not living with me for very long. I was brought up in polling schools. -True. -Which ultimately proved a very strong point.
08:55 He didn't tell me but he felt that I should get well educated first and then come into the film industry. Which was absolutely right.
09:03 Because most of the star sons, when they live under the shadow of their, you know, star father, they get quite spoiled.
09:12 So, I didn't get a chance because I lived in polling schools and then went to Europe for studies and all that.
09:19 Went to St. Stephen's, one of the best colleges in India. So, he insisted that I get good education.
09:28 I mean, because of that, that I have written the book. Otherwise I wouldn't have. -Right. And you spent most of your childhood with your uncle.
09:37 Not most of, major portion of my childhood with Bishamji. Bisham Saini Sabu himself, a very great writer.
09:46 He wrote Tamas and all. -Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tamas. Each every book of his is excellent. He is considered one of the best writers.
09:54 What kind of relationship both these brothers had? -Oh, they were like buddies. Like very close friends.
10:03 Who stood by each other. They loved each other very very very very much. I have written that article. I have lived in a chapel of the
10:11 brothers. As a brother he was. He was amazing. They were like friends. I mean, he didn't behave like an elder.
10:19 They discussed things, they sat together. I mean, it was fantastic just to work together.
10:25 You went to Moscow to apparently study direction and screenwriting. -Yeah, yeah, yeah. -But when you came back, you suddenly found yourself in front of a camera.
10:35 Because do you think that being son of the great Balraj Saini, it was predestined that everybody wanted you to be an actor?
10:41 Yeah, it looks like it. That's it. That looks like it. -And was it difficult because everybody must have expected to be
10:49 chip of the old block to live up to the standard of the new generation. -Yeah, yeah, yeah.
10:53 But… -Were you under pressure that time? -Yeah, I was under no pressure because he told me,
10:57 very early in life, don't think of me, be a first rate Parikshit Saini, don't be a third rate Balraj Saini.
11:06 Don't copy me. And be yourself. I have not ever taken acting as seriously as he did. My main excitement, my main,
11:19 let's say, my most lovable job is writing. So, I wrote a lot of scripts. I had my own banner called Balraj Saini Productions.
11:31 And wrote couple of scripts for some TV serials. And I enjoyed that. But acting is okay. But I can't, I don't take it as,
11:43 I mean, it comes to me quite easily because I have been that on the stage for many many years.
11:49 But then it's not the be all and the end all for me, you know. I have never aspired to be a big star or anything.
11:56 But you started off very well. Your first film, Manokhi Raat. -Yeah, yeah, yeah. After he died in '73, there was a big downfall.
12:04 Because I didn't know what to do. I mean, I was given the role of a hero. And I was not very successful. -Maybe you were not focused at that time.
12:14 No, no. I had been educated in Europe. And I didn't feel at ease with this sort of Hindi cinema at that time.
12:23 It's different now. Now they have gone the way ahead. So, that time I was ill at ease, you know. I said, what the hell am I doing?
12:31 Singing songs and all that. Not my cup of tea. -So, by heart you were not into this kind of… -No, I was not into it.
12:37 You never wanted… You wanted to become a director and writer that… -I did. I always, I still do. But then suddenly the roles,
12:47 as I grew older, they started getting, you know, the character roles. That became very interesting for me.
12:53 And you changed your name also with Kabhi Kabhi. -That was because after he died, before he died he had said,
12:59 "Patari, tu apna naam kyu badal diya tune hain?" So, after he died, I said, "Chalo bhai, jaise daddy ki marzi the."
13:06 Keep the name he gave me. And that's what it felt like. -But you have had a remarkable career. You have been very prolific after that.
13:17 After 1976. You were in Deist film, you were in Duniyadari, you did Tapasya before that. -Yes. -So, all those movies.
13:26 And one good thing about that, you carved a niche for yourself. You grew out of the shadow of your father and had your style of your own.
13:36 I don't know. I have done. But he told me, "Give your best with every, you know, whatever you do, do it with the best of your ability.
13:45 And be honest and believe in what you are doing." That's what I do. But of course, I have not, I mean, nobody else can be like him.
13:54 I mean, he is inimitable. He is inimitable. I mean, I don't understand as yet how he worked and how he carried even an ordinary scene.
14:04 In which he had no dialogues. He carried it with his performance. -One episode you have remembered obviously during the shooting of Udham Singh.
14:13 Yeah. -And he forced you to spit on your face after many retakes. -Oh, yes. He said, "You must spit back."
14:20 And you were in kind of, "Oh, how would I do it?" -I was terribly upset. I said, "Sir, I am spitting on the ground, I am spitting on the left, on the right.
14:29 What's written in the script, get into your role." And he didn't stop. He kept retaking the shot till I had done it.
14:37 Till that time were you aware of kind of commitment he had like that? -Yeah, I was. But I was very upset.
14:44 And then he took me to the make-up room and he said, "Yaar, dekho, I am not your father in that shot. You have to forget yourself.
14:52 You have to remember, make a magic circle and get into the script and into the role. You are my son, you should be honest.
15:01 If you are still thinking of me as your dad, then you are not doing your job. I am a villain. I am your…
15:07 You are Udham Singh, I am a revolutionary. I am Gadian. You are a revolutionary. You hate me.
15:13 And we had a long talk after which you spit on me. Why is that written in the script?"
15:18 So, he made me do it. And I felt very very bad. I went to the make-up room. I almost cried.
15:25 He came and told me, "Now you have done a good job." And he explained to me that, "That's the job of an actor.
15:31 Be honest. Be true. Believe what you are doing. Don't act." -And that must have left an imprint kind of… -Oh, yes.
15:39 That's why I have written about it. That's why I have written about it. -As an actor. -Yeah. -Sir, this book is replete of many interesting episodes
15:46 and fascinating stories about, not about your father only but also about your own career. -Yeah, yeah.
15:52 I wrote this book, wrote itself. I didn't plan it out. Jaise aise aata raha, I wrote it out.
15:59 So, there is one episode of your encounter with former President Gyanich Jal Singh. -Yeah, yeah. I was there. -Part of the delegation led by your father to Russia.
16:08 My father was with him. They were together. -And he was a small town, a small town. -Yeah, yeah. Nobody at that time.
16:15 But your father predicted that he would… -Yes. Because he had tremendous… He used to come out with statements that were very, very deep,
16:22 very profound, full of wisdom. Dad said, "Yaar, ek kabhi kabhi baat kar jata hai to aise…
16:28 Lagta hai ke yeh toh bahut great aadmi banega ek dey. Iske bada gyaan hai. Kabhi Gyanich Jal Singh kahte hai iske.
16:35 Gyanich hi the hu. -And he was, became a prophetic kind of an Indian. -Yes. I was, I remember I was sitting here watching.
16:43 TV wasn't there. I cried in the whole morning. Afternoon I saw him becoming the President. I said, "Yaar, daddy,
16:49 dey correct bola tha." And it's so nice to see this gentleman, jinka main tha interpreter, as a student, to see him reach this height.
17:02 It was fantastic. I wept. I sat there. I cried. -Even though this book is full of these interesting resources,
17:11 there is a feeling as a reader I felt that there are lot of stories about your own life waiting to be told to readers.
17:19 Will you plan an autobiography of yourself? -Well, I don't want to. My life is not as interesting. -But you have written so many
17:29 interesting episodes. -Ya, that I wrote. They are by the way. They are not the main theme.
17:34 They happen to be written by the way, you know, leading up to him. But to write an autobiography, he has written a brilliant one.
17:44 He used to be a great man. Unless, the only guy who wrote an autobiography was not a… well-known man was Niraad Chaudhary. -True.
17:52 He wrote a book called, the Autobiography of an Unknown Indian. -True. -But otherwise who would be interested in my autograph?
18:00 Naseeruddin Shah has written a beautiful autobiography. I have read it. It's very well written. -But that is your perception but there are many
18:09 admirers and all. -No, no. I don't come in that category. I don't think so. Amitabh would write a beautiful autobiography.
18:16 Because he is a… he is an institution. He is a Mahapurush, if you ask me. I admire him from the bottom of my heart.
18:27 What a guy he is. Tremendous man. And what a tremendous actor. -And it is only in the fitness of the things that he not only wrote the four but also released the book.
18:37 Yeah, yeah, yeah. The release was successful because of him mainly. And he had gone to the wrong place for the launch.
18:47 He had reached Marine Drive when he rang me up. He said, yaar yeh kidhar hai? Bene ka aaye toh yeh Taj,
18:53 Lanzarne? -And he had gone to Taj. -He had gone to the NCPA. He was going to the NCPA. And look at the greatness of the man.
19:00 He could have said, sorry, I have not given the right information. So, I am sorry, I cannot come. He turned the car and he came.
19:07 Almost 20 minutes or half an hour late. But what a great thing he did. Yaar, he is a, I mean, he is the son of a great man and he is a great himself.
19:18 And what he has inherited, it shows in his upbringing, in his behaviour. Yaar, he is a Mahapurush. I mean, I have worked with him in several films
19:29 but I have been completely bowled over by his dedication, determination and discipline. The three things that should be part of an actor's life.
19:38 That's what dad had, you know. Dedication, determination, discipline. -And that's why they, that kind of… -Yes. That's why he is where he is.
19:49 I mean, he is an institution. He is a legend now. -True. -Yaar. -Thank you very much, sir. I am sure this is a fascinating book and it will be loved by everybody who goes through it.
20:03 I hope so. -Thank you very much, sir. -I hope so. You are welcome. -Thank you very much, sir.
20:08 .