NDTV Conclave: India's Rapid Energy Transition| Hardeep Singh Puri | Decoding G20 Agenda
In order to reach the goal of net zero emissions by 2070, a rapid energy transition is underway in India. Petroleum and Natural Gas Minister Hardeep Singh Puri talks about rethinking power.
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00:00 Good morning everyone. Thank you very much for attending this program. G20, its meaning
00:09 for India, what we hope to achieve as a country, and what we are doing and what we are learning
00:15 as a process. More importantly, if we talk specifically, how do you rethink fuel? And
00:25 I don't think there will be a better person to answer questions along these lines than
00:28 the Union Minister for Petroleum and Natural Gas and Minister for Urban Affairs, Ambassador
00:34 Hardeep Singh Puri. And I insist on calling you Ambassador first. Thank you very much,
00:38 Ambassador Puri. Thank you very much for having me here today. And I have no difficulty in
00:44 you calling me an ambassador or whatever you like. Certainly I was an, I've been an ambassador
00:50 longer than I've been a minister. But thank you. You started with the G20 and then you
00:58 fast forwarded to rethinking fuel. So I'll spend a minute or two or three, if you permit,
01:06 to talk about G20. And then I will come to fossil fuel transition, rethinking fuel. First
01:15 and foremost, I think in every discussion, the context is most important. And the G20
01:26 presidency of India came at a time when the world was facing multiple crises. The G20
01:36 itself was born in a moment of crisis. In 2008, when there was a world financial and
01:42 economic crisis, the global institutions did not know how to deal with that crisis. So
01:50 they elevated the G20, which was a grouping at the level of finance ministers, and made
01:57 it into a summit level group. And the G20 summit in London 2010 helped address that
02:04 because the IMF, World Bank, the GATT or WTO could not address it. But the G20 presidency
02:12 of India is taking place when the world is facing three crises. There wasn't that kind
02:18 of turbulence. You've got three crises, fuel, food, and fertilizer. But I think the interesting
02:26 thing is India during this period, not only now, now of course we are on the moon and
02:33 over the moon, but India's figures generally are looking very, very impressive. And if
02:38 you give me time later, I'd like to reel off what was the situation in 2014 and what is
02:45 the situation now nine years later. And that adds to an overall spirit of elation.
02:51 How about now? We can begin now. You can tell us.
02:53 Well, I can tell you, I'd be very happy. I've been doing some research in the morning before
02:57 I came here. So there are things that you know, and there are things which you don't
03:01 know. Foreign direct investment and FDI will take place when the foreign direct investor,
03:08 who is a private entity, feels that there is economic opportunity. You're looking at
03:15 an average of 22 billion. Today, you're looking at an average of 46 billion per annum. Mutual
03:21 fund investment, 2013 was 100 billion. Today, it's 500 billion. The electrification of railways,
03:28 2013 was 4,100 kilometers. Today, it's 28,100 kilometers. The corporate tax rate then was
03:36 33.9 percent. Now, it's down to 22 percent. Retail or RBI, CPI inflation, 10 percent down
03:45 in last year, not even this year, down to 4.7 percent. Direct benefit transfer, you
03:50 know, the money that you transfer to the beneficiaries of all our schemes. It's very interesting.
03:57 From 0.89 billion, that's less than 1 billion. Now, it's 32 billion.
04:04 When I give you national highways, 2014, it was 25,700 kilometers. Today, it's 53,700
04:14 kilometers. Airport was 74, today it's 148. Digital transactions as a percentage of GDP.
04:22 Now, this I find most impressive. In 2016, 4.4 percent. Today, 76.1 percent. Number of
04:32 IITs which we had, in 2014, it was 16. In 2023, it's 23. Number of IIMs, in 2014, it
04:40 was 13. Today, it's 20. Look, I can go on and on. But the feel-good factor in India,
04:48 where India has traveled, and that is reflected in turn in the fact that you've moved from
04:54 being the 10th largest economy to the 5th largest economy. When I used to say a few
05:00 years ago that we are going to be a $5 trillion economy, some of my friends, I don't know
05:05 how to describe them. Their friendship, I think, has never been in doubt. Their liberal
05:11 wonkiness was in doubt. Is there a $5 trillion? Challenges to have. But challenges to have
05:18 today. But today, when you talk in terms of being a, let's say, $10 trillion economy by
05:25 2030, no one, no one has any doubt. And by the way, the rollout statistics I gave you
05:34 are not mine. They are Morgan Stanley's. I read a report this morning, and the preambular
05:41 was, and I'll conclude with that. And forgive me, I'm not trying to say this. Not my view.
05:48 Morgan Stanley's views. India's future looks like China's past. I think that sums up the
05:55 truth area, the growth potential that India demonstrated in the last nine years and the
06:01 years ahead. And he's recalling China's past. I'm not saying China will not have a great
06:08 future. I don't know. I don't study the Chinese economy in that detail. But there are fault
06:15 lines there. Some sectors of that economy are under strain. The real estate sector to
06:21 begin with, about which I know a little. But now I want to fast forward to fuel. Before
06:27 Ambassador Puri, you answer questions on fuel. This point that you made on $5 trillion economy,
06:33 some of your friends, since you mentioned them, they also said that it was happening
06:38 on its own. The whole theory of compounding. What did you do? You ask them this question,
06:43 if it was happening on its own, why didn't you take credit? When I was talking, after
06:47 2017-18, when I came to the ministerial level, I started talking about it. It can't be. It's
06:53 impossible. If it's happening on its own, you should say we did it. It's happening because
06:58 of that. But you know, I mean, frankly, frankly, I think every one of us, when we get up in
07:04 the morning, we can decide how much of a fool we want to make of ourselves that day. You
07:10 know, it's in a democracy like India, where there is freedom of speech, freedom of action,
07:16 you can get up and make an outlandish statement. You start cataloging what they've been saying.
07:20 But you know, this is a shoot and scoot politics.
07:24 And then when they say, "This is wrong," change the subject. But if you want me to come to
07:32 fuel. Yeah, from fool, let's come to fuel. Good one. Good one.
07:36 I'll put a proposition in front of you. And that is, let's say you have a huge nuclear
07:48 arsenal. The nuclear arsenal by itself does not translate itself into political or economic
08:02 or global standing. Because it is entirely conceivable that you can have a large nuclear
08:08 arsenal, and yet you can have a large country disintegrate. Point one. Point two, there
08:16 are some things which are clear indicators or clear providers of how an economy is going.
08:25 And I submit to you, fuel consumption is one such indicator. Why am I saying this? India's
08:32 fuel consumption today, on an average, is three times the global average. How do I say
08:41 that? If global -- there may be a pandemic, there may be a slowdown, there's drop in demand.
08:48 But if global growth, say, demand grows by 1%, India's grows 3%. Fuel consumption is
08:55 a very good indicator of the state of your economy. That's the first position.
09:02 The second one, when you talk about transition or rethinking fuel, what are you rethinking?
09:09 You're not rethinking energy. You are rethinking clean energy. In other words, if your dependence
09:16 on fossil fuel was 100%, how much is it today? I'll give you a starting point, since we are
09:25 talking about my erstwhile -- no, no, they're still my friends. Their political tags are
09:29 a little in doubt. Until 2014, and I'll tell you my experience. When I -- it was 2002,
09:43 2003, when I went to Brazil in 2006, as India's ambassador, we tried very hard to have a collaboration
09:55 on biofuels. So, even then, I had this position, and it's still the same today. If you want
10:04 to bring success in something, first you have to bring your policy in the right way. So,
10:15 when Mr. Pawar was the, I think, agriculture minister, and he has a very firm grounding
10:22 in the sugar politics and so on, at that time, a decision was made that in our 10 states
10:32 and Union territories, we will blend 5% biofuels. And we put all our efforts. When we reached
10:42 2014, so I think the amount of biofuels we were blending was at 1.5% or a little less
10:48 or a little more. So, what went wrong in those years? I'm talking about 2006 to 2014. And
10:57 what went right after 2014 onwards? Well, I'll fast forward. We were less than -- we
11:03 were around 1.5% in 2014. Today, we are blending, I think, 12% or thereabouts.
11:11 11.7% to be precise.
11:14 11.7% is what we are doing now. We have a 12% target, I think, till the end of the year.
11:19 So, we are on that 12% thing. But there's another target, and that target is that we
11:26 wanted to do 20% blending by 2030. And the Honorable Prime Minister has brought that
11:32 forward to 2025.
11:33 Okay, I'll give you a figure. When we did 10% blending, and our target for 10% blending
11:44 was November 2022. And we did it 5 months before the target date. When we did 10% blending,
11:51 our saving on the import bill was Rs. 41,000 crores. And the Rs. 41,000 crores that we
12:00 saved, we gave Rs. 42,000 crores to our farmers. If we do 20% blending, which is around the
12:09 corner. So, what will be the saving on this thing? You can calculate based on then prevailing
12:18 international price. But that's not my point. It's not the amount of money you're saving.
12:24 Please look at the boost that agriculture receives as a result of biofuel. So, you are
12:29 meeting, you're rethinking fuel, you're also providing a boost to your agriculture. And
12:35 now I want to go forward, because I'm sure you don't want to take all the time on fuels.
12:40 But before we move beyond fuels, there's a question related to the blending that you're
12:46 talking about. For a layperson who's driving his car, you said earlier that it was 1.53%
12:53 blending, meaning that much ethanol in petrol. You increased that to 11.7%. Now you've set
12:58 a target of 20. By 2025, this will also happen. A concern is that what is this mix coming
13:06 in my car instead of petrol? And is it safe? So, while you save money, that's a different
13:11 thing. How do you convince people that this is right? No, I don't need to convince people.
13:17 The convincing is taking place on its own. Technical studies had shown that if your biofuel
13:26 blending is 20%, then you don't need to change any parts in the engine of the car. There
13:34 won't be any corrosion in it. This was the conventional thinking. And I make this submission
13:41 to you. Because of that thinking, our mindset also stopped at 20%. When I newly joined the
13:50 petroleum and natural gas department in July 2021, a senior colleague asked me why I stopped
13:59 at 20%. So, I gave an explanation that the technically automobile association, SIAM,
14:06 Society of Indian Automobile Manufacturers, they are used to engines which are doing very
14:12 well. God bless them, making enough money. So, I talked to them. They said that it will
14:21 work up to 20%, but not more than that. So, I told them that when I was posted in Brazil,
14:28 I was a Rajyuth in Brazil, then in Brazil, you go to Petrol Punk and depending on the
14:34 price of petrol and ethanol in a day, or on board, you can take a decision. If the price
14:41 of petrol is less, you can get 100% petrol. If the price of ethanol is less, you can get
14:49 100% ethanol. But those cars are manufactured to those specifications. When we experimented
14:58 on this, it was clear to us that there is no problem up to 20%. So, we started in April
15:05 2021, if memory serves me right, we started introducing what is called E20, or E20 is
15:13 20% blended fuel. And if memory serves me right, the latest figure I saw is that there
15:19 are 2000 pumps where E20 is being sold. I gave you the example of my senior colleague
15:29 who questioned me. I said that the reason for this was that my concern was something else.
15:33 My concern at that time was that let's say we set a target of more than 20%. Do we have
15:40 the resilience in the system to ensure that the amount of ethanol required, and we've
15:47 diversified the feed, we get it made from sugar, from bamboo, second generation, we're
15:56 also making it from agricultural waste, from Parali. Will we be able to get that? Today,
16:02 I can tell you with confidence that two things have happened. I took a small step, but I
16:10 think it had its impact. I invited my Brazilian counterpart, and I requested him to bring
16:17 a delegation of his automobile manufacturers. And the automobile manufacturers in Brazil,
16:25 the companies are the same. German companies, Japanese companies. I was very happy because
16:32 when they came here, if a car with more than 20% ethanol can run in Brazil, why can't it
16:39 run here? The manufacturer is the same. It's not as if it's a different manufacturer.
16:42 And I'm very happy to inform you that I'm very clear that the kind of cars which are
16:48 coming in here now are called E85. They will be able to take biofuels up to 85%. So we
16:55 have overcome that. Second, we have not stopped at this. We are now looking at the green hydrogen.
17:04 First, let me go to compressed biogas, natural gas. I'm very happy when we were walking in,
17:12 whoever was your master of ceremonies was describing me as the minister of petroleum
17:16 and gas. I said, I like the second part. But no, it's natural gas. There's a difference
17:22 between natural gas and liquefied petroleum gas. Let me give you what the difference is.
17:28 Liquefied petroleum gas, which is a pure cooking medium. That is what my OMCs have to sometimes
17:38 carry on their shoulders when there are torrential rains and deliver. Natural gas is
17:43 used in automobiles. It's used in the industrial sector. It's used in a variety.
17:51 Now, liquefied petroleum gas is made from crude oil. The other one comes out. So what are we
18:00 doing? We are increasing the percentage of gas in our fuel mix from 6% to 15%. We're well on the way.
18:12 And it's going to cost about an investment of $60 billion is taking place. We have just now,
18:18 if memory serves me right, or my young friend will correct me, we have about seven liquefying
18:23 stations. You see, gas is not transported across the sea. You come in liquid form. It comes to the
18:30 port of arrival. There it is gasified. Then it comes through a pipeline. So what have we done
18:40 on the pipeline? That's very important. In 2014, our total pipeline was 14,500 kilometers.
18:48 Our target is more than 33,000 kilometers. Today, with great pride, I tell you, the country has
18:55 already achieved about 23,000 kilometers. And we will take it from 23,000 kilometers to 33,000
19:02 kilometers. So natural gas usage in the economy will go up. When I meet with my explorers, I had
19:10 a delegation from outside last night. I took a review of this thing. I think gas production
19:20 in the last two years has gone up by 18%, 20%. So we are trying to increase gas domestic production.
19:27 Unlike crude oil, where we are dependent on imports to about 80% or so, in the case of
19:34 natural gas, we are 50% or so. Now, for instance, let's talk about its use as a pipe natural gas.
19:45 It requires infrastructure.
19:47 So that may be a problem. I'll have to depend on LPG. So in terms of that penetration,
19:56 are we well on target? Sir, I think 98% has reached. But what is the problem? I'll tell you.
20:02 Pipeline is covering 98% of the geographical area. The difficulty is the last mile connectivity.
20:08 And I don't want to criticize anyone. Last of all, my constituents.
20:12 It is like, if you take the pipe from here to some urban center, and there is a high-rise building.
20:20 It is very easy there. Give one connection and 300 consumers will be satisfied. But where your
20:27 population is dispersed, where your population is one house and the next one is 4 kilometers
20:35 away, 6 kilometers away, then it is a little late. But I think the figures are very impressive.
20:41 I think geographically, we've already covered 98% of the area.
20:46 But I think the more important thing is, I need to get the CNG there because it's much cheaper
20:52 than liquefied petroleum gas. So rest assured, I'm fighting all the time with the fighting,
20:59 not individuals, fighting the bottlenecks. Because you laid out a CDD pipeline, you laid down other
21:05 things. But things, believe me, the progress is fantastic. By the way, all the connections are
21:09 going up. LPG connection was 14 crore in 2014, and today it is 31 crore. And in this too, CNG was
21:18 25 lakh, it has come up to 1 crore. But my idea is to increase the total number of users much more.
21:24 So you will have a situation where people will have the pipe gas coming in. They will also
21:30 hopefully buy my solar cooker, do other things. So you're rethinking fuel. But we don't stop here.
21:38 But I think the fuel of the future really is green hydrogen.
21:40 [speaking in Urdu]
21:44 Why? Because alternates will be available. What does green hydrogen require?
21:56 Green hydrogen requires two things. One is a capacity,
22:00 green energy, solar energy, and we demonstrated this. Earlier it was 25 cents per unit. Today
22:07 we have reduced it to 3 cents per unit. Or you need electrolyzers. And today, I can tell you
22:15 that we have within the country every possible conceivable electrolyzer manufacturer in the
22:21 world is tied up here. Why? Because green hydrogen will succeed where you have domestic demand,
22:29 you have domestic production, and domestic consumption. Again, I'm not trying to criticize
22:35 anyone. Green hydrogen will succeed in India. But if you tell me that you can make green hydrogen
22:41 in some desert 10,000 kilometers away and then transport it, no. A gas does not lend itself to
22:49 transportation. You can, but it's a very costly business. What you can transport and export,
22:54 which Indian companies are doing now, is green ammonia. So today, green hydrogen.
23:00 I'm looking at different possibilities. The fuel cell. Now you've got cars which are coming in,
23:09 very strong rollout of electric vehicles. You've got cars which are coming in which are in hybrid
23:16 mode. Those which are using the fuel cell. One of my companies has been, IOCL has been after me,
23:21 that there's a big hydrogen bus, we should do it on that. Look, there won't be any sequentiality in this,
23:27 that we'll use this till today, and the next day. It will all work together. But I think
23:32 by the time we reach 2025, we'll have a very interesting situation. In 2025, 20%
23:38 biofuel blending will happen. We would have shed our inhibition, and I call it an inhibition,
23:46 because if E85 vehicles are slowly beginning to come in, then you will do more biofuel. Plus,
23:52 now I get pressure from all the feed providers. By feed providers, I mean, a lot of people say,
24:00 so it's adding to the agricultural momentum. And then when you do this, the CNG increases,
24:10 number of cars on CNG. When the CNG prices went up, I was very worried. I said, I hope the automobile
24:16 manufacturers don't hold back. But no, they are quite happy in now rolling out more and more CNG
24:22 cars. So I think in many ways, India represents, and that is a real India story, Chandrayaan,
24:29 on the moon, over the moon, complete transformation in terms of the automobile. And we are one of the
24:35 largest automobile manufacturers in the world. And on top of that, you take this fuel, because
24:41 rethinking fuel is not just personal automobile. You look at your urban transport system. Our metro
24:48 system is going to be the second largest in the world after China, overtaking the US. But more
24:53 than that, the Prime Minister just approved 10,000 electric buses for city operations. So I mean,
25:01 when Mr. Kedriwal matures from his ravery politics into mature politics, he will discuss
25:09 that instead of cannibalizing the old fleet, it's better to accelerate the electric vehicles coming
25:14 in based on an agreed, transparent, and predictable method of funding and operation.
25:28 Ambassador Puri, this point that you made about green hydrogen being the future fuel,
25:34 should any fuel be readily available to get mass acceptability?
25:41 Should an infrastructure be made for it? What can you tell us about its pipeline?
25:46 I love your mass acceptability and benefits to the fathers first, because that's what our
25:53 operating philosophy is. See, this is a matter of time. When the gas cylinder started,
26:00 I'm talking about my childhood, and I'm very old, so it must have been many years ago.
26:06 When you got a gas cylinder, it felt like you had achieved something big if you managed to get a
26:12 gas cylinder. Why? Because our mothers and sisters were spared the toxicity which comes in a kitchen,
26:22 okay? Because they were using wet wood, they were using coal. I remember when I was a child,
26:29 my grandmother used to use a coal and used to fuel it by a small opening in the air.
26:36 A small place we lived in was completely... You move from there, today a gas cylinder...
26:53 So, acceptability and to the fathers first, I think Ujjwala's scheme showed it.
26:58 This is where it goes to the below the poverty line, economically weaker section. If 9.6 crore
27:14 cylinders has to increase to 10 crores if there's demand, we'll do it. So, the
27:19 person who is the most vulnerable is the highest priority. So, I come to that. So, you start with
27:24 that. Secondly, insofar as fuel is concerned, please note that today 70% of our traffic
27:34 on the roads, vehicular traffic is of two-wheelers and three-wheeler. That's where the common man
27:40 comes in, and they're using battery operated. But the cost of all these fuels, whether it's ethanol
27:48 made from different feeds like second generation bamboo, third generation gases, or second generation
27:58 agricultural waste, the cost keeps coming down, but you have to scale up. I think green hydrogen
28:04 is precisely one such case. Once the cost of electrolyzers, domestically manufactured, because
28:11 then you need what? You need sunshine, you need water, and you need an electrolyzer because solar
28:18 costs have come down. And the success will come from our refineries. We have 11 refineries of a company.
28:27 Already two they are doing and I'm coaxing him one of these days, we'll get him to announce it. He's
28:31 using another two for this thing. Once that comes, cost comes down. But I still think you have to go
28:38 through the progression through batteries, because 70% is that, two-wheelers and three-wheeler.
28:45 Then you go to four-wheelers, then you go from existing fuels to cleaner fuels, all that is
28:52 happening simultaneously. So that transitioning, I understand that point you made, but I'm sure you
28:58 must be having some sort of a blueprint or an idea or a timeline to which you would successfully tell
29:04 yourself that, okay, now in 2023, in a hall, I had said that this is the fuel of the future.
29:11 This is what I think, by this time it will be the fuel. See, I'll tell you, much of this is about
29:18 what is called a popular narrative. When we, I think in 2021, when Prime Minister Mananiya was
29:26 addressing the country from Lal Quila, he said that we are going to take up green hydrogen in
29:33 mission mode. Many smart and enlightened anchors after that asked me, what is happening? Nothing has happened yet.
29:41 See, to make a country transition from one point to another, you need to have your ecosystems right.
29:51 So what were the ecosystems that he did? When the PM says something from the Red Fort, take it, he means it.
29:57 And he'll get it done, especially this PM. He said, the greatest tribute we can pay to the
30:07 father of the nation when we celebrate his 150th birth anniversary is to make India open defecation free.
30:13 I said this in 2014. It happened in 2019. Not just one state, but that too happened. So, this policy pronouncements and ecosystem transformation,
30:23 two steps I tell you. A cabinet decision, I think it was fantastic, that 17,000 crores,
30:31 our PLI scheme, Productivity Linked Incentive Scheme, in that, electrolyzer manufacture was included.
30:40 And it worked. Now you have, as I said, just about every, I'm not saying they're all drawing from the
30:45 PLI scheme. They're coming here because they see economic potential and they see the,
30:52 I'll be very frank, ability to make money. Also, foreign investors, they're not going to come out of
30:57 philanthropy or altruism. They will come because there's an economic opportunity.
31:01 Then there was another decision taken whereby specific responsibilities were given. What can
31:09 the steel sector do? What can we do? So I think we've got the basics in right. I tend to make
31:17 statements more on the cautionary side. I have now seen one economic entity has brought in what,
31:23 32 billion dollars of investment from other places. Why are they investing in India? Because they
31:27 think India is a place where green hydrogen research, manufacture will take place and
31:33 ultimately India will be a staging point for the other. You know, the most important question you
31:39 have to answer is, till when will fossil fuels be a viable competitive thing? And that's the most
31:46 important. Because if we go at the current level, you've got two competing global trends. One is
31:54 those who say, "Fossil fuels." If you want to finish fossil fuels and you want only green energy,
32:02 then you must make the investment in the green energy. Because there's no point telling a guy
32:07 who can buy a litre of petrol for, say, 85 rupees in a BJP rule state and 108 in a non-BJP rule
32:16 state, "Don't buy this, buy green hydrogen where the corresponding cost is twice." So,
32:23 if the two processes will take place simultaneously, and my answer to your question is,
32:29 this will happen sooner than later. Fantastic. Now, my next question, and we are coming to the
32:35 close of this session. You see, whatever fuel we use, there is a concern of pollution and its impact
32:44 on climate change. That is always a driving force when I'm sure you must be deciding something
32:50 or thinking about something. We have seen this argument many times, we have seen it on various
32:56 international forums, that the developing countries, those who are part of the global south,
33:03 they are told, "Aap pollution kam kije, aap iske baare mein zara sochiye, dhyan dije." And this is
33:09 being said by countries who have already had their fair share of pollution, have progressed, and
33:17 they should be very happy about the progress they've made. But the argument is that it's a bit
33:22 rich on their part to suggest to the developing world that you contain your growth, whereas,
33:30 you know, we have had our share. How do you look at this? No, no, I, if I were not in this
33:36 distinguished gathering, I would give you some inner thoughts, but I'll spare you those now.
33:40 You see, it's very easy that you can go around polluting the world, and then you provide
33:46 prescriptions to the others. Maanane Pradhan Mantri ji ki, unka daayatwa sambhalne se pehle,
33:56 thoda hamari policy mein bhi confusion tha. Aur mujhe yaad hai jab Dr. Sahib Pradhan Mantri
34:02 the, toh main, I was a senior civil servant, toh bahut baar climate change context mein yeh
34:08 sawal uthaya jaata tha, ki where is India, what is India's position? So, I remember
34:14 one of us cheekily saying, "Sir, are we part of the problem, or are we part of the solution?"
34:22 So, obviously, Dr. Sahib would, very measured in his words, wouldn't say it. Toh phir one of us
34:26 quipped then, saying, "If you want to be part of the problem, toh aapna ek negotiator ka naam de,
34:32 unko aage kar do. Agar if you want to be part of the solution, toh kis doosre ko kar do." But this
34:37 kind of zigzagging went on till, I think, COP 21. Jab COP 21 ki meeting Paris mein hui thi,
34:45 I think our Prime Minister took a decisive step, and a very bold step. He said, "Yeh mutual
34:51 recrimination toh chalta rahaega, ki yeh pollution kar raha hai, yeh kar raha hai,
34:55 pollution yeh kar raha hai. Arre bhai, toh koi aapse puchega, aap bhi toh pollution kar raha hai.
35:00 Yeh nahi, nahi, meri per capita emission jo aaye inse 110th hai. Is that an argument for you to
35:05 go on?" So, I think the PM took a very mature, bold step, saying, "We can go on talking about
35:15 common but differentiated responsibility. We can go on reminding them that they are the polluters.
35:20 But meanwhile, we've got to take action." And he took the action. He said, "We will take action on
35:26 our own because we have to save our own. I mean, the state of the country which you hand to your
35:32 children or the next generation cannot be progressively getting worse from what you
35:38 inherited." So, he took that decision. And even on that 2070 jo commitment thi, net zero ki,
35:47 mujhe yaad hai, maane liye Pradhan Mantri ji, before he took off from Delhi, there was talk,
35:52 he said, "Nahi, nahi, India can't do this." Yeh US envoy hai, kya naam hai unka, jo purane,
35:58 John Kerry, uske pehle Al Gore bhi aaye the, mujhe yaad hai. Toh baat cheeth ho rahi thi,
36:06 wo sab kare the, "India should do something." I don't know what the bureaucracy's advice to the
36:10 Prime Minister was, but I think somewhere in the flight between wherever he was taking off
36:17 from and Glasgow, PM made up his mind that he will. And he announced net zero. Usse kya effect
36:24 hua? Humari jo oil companies hain, I don't think they're here today, unse pucha jaye, koi kehte
36:30 meri 2035 net zero commitment hai, koi kehte hai 2040 hai. You see, once the boss gives you the
36:36 target and once he says karna hai, then it happens. And then we've got all kinds of other commitments,
36:43 2030 tak yeh karna hai, itna percentage wo karna hai, etc. So this is now part of what I call
36:49 an active part of our consciousness. And this is now going to bind us. So whether it is
36:57 biofuels, compressed biogas, CNG, green hydrogen, how green is green? I'll tell you very frankly,
37:06 I don't get that excited about electric vehicles, because my point is, if the grid is not green yet,
37:14 I'm glad an electric vehicle emits less pollution than let's say a normal other vehicle.
37:24 But how are you making electricity? No, basically, I'm coming. So the whole grid is changing.
37:29 So a lot of people will tell you, I mean, I've had global experts come and tell me,
37:33 you know, Minister, you should, we are very impressed with your blue, green hydrogen,
37:38 but don't make it exclusively green, because there is a blue stage there, where it is much
37:44 better than now, if not totally green. So I think the Indian story is a sui generis one, it's unique,
37:53 because the kind of challenges you've got, you've got to feed. And as you keep reminding me,
37:57 the people who are most vulnerable, we've got to get to them, we have to make sure they are moving,
38:02 they have moved. By the way, as part of that, we also have an active discourage the use of
38:07 kerosene policy. And the discourage the use of kerosene means physically we are now bringing it,
38:15 we are reducing it, I get a lot of flack from some of the states, which want higher kerosene
38:20 quotas for a variety of reasons, but it's moving. Even in Varanasi, we converted all the
38:27 kerosene powered boats into CNG boats during the I think India Energy Week or thereabouts.
38:34 Ambassador Puri, thank you so much for your time. Thank you.
38:37 Thank you.
38:39 [Applause]
38:43 [Music]
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