Decoding G20 With External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar
External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar speaks to Sanjay Pugalia on how #India's presidency of #G20 has influenced the world order. #BQLive
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00:00 Namaskar.
00:02 NDTV network has done a G20 conclave a few days ago.
00:08 And this is another very special, very exclusive
00:11 conversation that we are going to have with Dr. Jaishankar
00:15 today.
00:16 G20 conversation so far has happened in a high jargon
00:21 for specialist audiences.
00:23 It is very important that just before the event,
00:26 for the larger Indian audiences, we
00:28 put the context in correct place and also sort of give you
00:34 a viewer's guide that how to look at G20 proceedings that
00:39 will happen September 9 to 10.
00:43 Thank you so much for your time, sir.
00:44 This is very busy schedule for you.
00:47 There are two, three words which are often mentioned,
00:52 that what is India way?
00:54 What is Modi diplomacy or what is Jaishankar doctrine?
00:59 We want to understand all of that one by one.
01:03 But first thing, I think you should give us
01:06 a sense of broader view.
01:08 What is so unique about G20 presidency
01:11 and this happening in India?
01:15 Well, I think what is unique is, first of all, G20 itself.
01:22 It started in 2008.
01:25 Before that, you had essentially a G7,
01:28 which were all Western countries mostly.
01:31 And after the 2008 global financial crisis,
01:35 those countries realized that they
01:37 needed more countries, developing countries,
01:41 a broader group to deal with the challenges of the world.
01:45 Now, it started with a very narrow mandate.
01:48 Every year, more problems came.
01:50 So the mandate kept getting bigger.
01:54 But this year, it is special for two reasons.
01:58 One, the world today in 2023 is a far more complicated place
02:05 than it has been for a long time.
02:08 And the reasons for it, I think everybody would know.
02:13 We've had once in a century pandemic, whose impact
02:18 on the economy, on societies, on social fabric, on employment,
02:22 on logistics has been horrific.
02:26 We are still experiencing the impact of an ongoing conflict.
02:32 And because we are today more globalized,
02:35 a conflict which is taking place in Europe
02:38 is having an energy impact, food impact, a fertilizer impact,
02:43 an inflation impact on the world.
02:47 There are concerns with debt, trade disruptions.
02:51 There are worries about climate events,
02:53 which are happening with more and more frequency,
02:57 and big climate events, which have big economic consequences.
03:01 So if you look at the state of the world,
03:03 the state of the world is far more difficult, more
03:06 complicated, more worrisome than it has been for a long time.
03:10 So that's one reason why it is different.
03:12 The second reason is, in such a situation,
03:17 who can step forward and try to find a middle ground?
03:22 Because as you can see, there are two big divides
03:25 in the world today.
03:26 One is what you can call the East-West divide.
03:30 And the other is the North-South divide.
03:32 So which country is in a position
03:35 today to address both divides, to help find a common ground,
03:41 help search for a solution?
03:43 And such a country should not just be neutral.
03:48 It should also be a country that commands respect,
03:51 which has had achievements to its own credit, which
03:54 has something to show to the North, to the South,
03:58 to the East, to the West.
04:00 And that country happens to be India.
04:02 So I think you have, therefore, a long answer to your question
04:07 is, it is unique today because the global situation is unique
04:10 and the G20 presidency is today unique.
04:14 And frankly, what we have done in the last 10 years
04:16 is also unique.
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22:39 So the question really was twofold.
22:44 One is, in a sense, where is the G20 going?
22:48 Will you get a communique? That essentially was one part of it.
22:51 And the second was reference to a map in inverted commas, or mine,
22:58 which was put out by China.
23:00 So here is the answer.
23:03 Where the G20 is concerned, you know, we as chair,
23:08 as a very consultative chair, and a very committed chair,
23:12 we have held many meetings.
23:14 We have tried to build a consensus.
23:17 Many G20 ambassadors are here in the room, and they know.
23:21 They have sat themselves in many of these meetings.
23:24 So I'm very confident that when we reach the G20 summit,
23:30 that collectively within the G20, there will be a shared interest
23:36 in coming out with a common solution and a common statement
23:41 about all the key problems of the world.
23:44 And we certainly, from our side, will do everything to make that possible.
23:49 I'm very confident that that will happen.
23:52 It is a process right now.
23:54 The second issue, [SPEAKING HINDI]
23:58 So this is this map which China has put out.
24:05 Look, China has even in the past put out maps which claim the territories
24:10 which are not China's, which belong to other countries.
24:13 This is an old habit of theirs.
24:15 It is not something which is new.
24:17 It started in the 1950s.
24:19 So just by putting out a map claiming territories,
24:22 I mean, some of which are part of India,
24:27 I think doesn't make that.
24:29 I mean, these are very much part of India.
24:31 So I would say, but I would not relate the two countries.
24:38 I think we are very clear.
24:40 We are very clear what our territories are.
24:42 This government is very clear about what we need to defend our territories.
24:45 You can already see that on our borders.
24:47 So I think there should be no doubt about that.
24:52 Just making absurd claims doesn't make other people's territory yours.
24:56 Let's be very clear on that.
24:57 But then where does it put us in terms of the 1920 rounds of conversations
25:05 that we had with them on disengagement?
25:08 So what's happening on that?
25:10 No, no, that's a different issue.
25:12 The disengagement talks are pertaining to the line of actual control.
25:19 This is a map issue.
25:21 I mean, this is not the first time they showed a map.
25:25 You know that they've been going.
25:27 So I think there are two different issues.
25:30 The disengagement talks, what is going on there.
25:33 Are you hopeful?
25:35 About disengagement conversations, are you hopeful?
25:38 I'm a person who spent a lifetime in diplomacy.
25:42 Only hopeful and optimistic people come to diplomacy.
25:46 So, you know, there is no problem.
25:49 There's no problem I believe we cannot solve.
25:53 You know, and when I have, when I am representing in diplomacy 1.4 crore Indians,
26:00 140 crore Indians, I think there should be no doubt about that.
26:07 Because look, as a nation of 1.4 billion people today,
26:13 we have a weight in the world.
26:15 We have an influence in the world.
26:17 We stand for something.
26:20 And that's, you know, you raise it in the context of the boundary issues.
26:26 But I go back to your G20 question.
26:30 People look at us and say, here is a country 1.4 billion people, 140 crore Indians.
26:36 When they have done things, there was a time we say,
26:41 what we have done for developing world, it has an impact.
26:44 I think today, not only for the developing world,
26:48 a lot of what we have done in digital, I think today is also an example for the developed world.
26:53 That we have been able to show delivery, delivery in housing, delivery in health,
26:59 delivery in farmers programs, which is riding on a digital backbone.
27:06 We are a living example today of the power of technology and what it can do to the lives of people.
27:12 Since we were talking about China, so in a manner of speaking,
27:17 China was the place where you met Prime Minister Modi for the first time, if I am not wrong.
27:21 And you mentioned about your career as a diplomat.
27:25 We all are curious and this question is being posed to you every time.
27:30 But still we also want to know in a little more deeper manner.
27:35 How does he work on the subjects like foreign policy?
27:41 And what is different about PM Modi?
27:45 Because you have worked with many other Prime Ministers.
27:47 You know, how does he work on foreign policy?
27:53 He has a lot of interest, I must tell you.
27:57 And not just now. I mean, I first met him in 2011.
28:01 In 2011, he was there for a few days, I was there in China as ambassador.
28:06 I found him very interested, very insightful, but very willing to learn.
28:14 So it was a mix of all of that.
28:15 And since then, last 10 years, I travel a lot with him.
28:21 When I travel with him also, a lot of his travels are constantly trying to understand,
28:26 Okay, what is happening there? How did he do it? What is new here?
28:31 So he is constantly looking, you can say, like a best practices.
28:35 Because he is a very, you know, someone very committed to building India.
28:41 But at the same time, very technology friendly, very open minded,
28:45 always willing to see, okay, what is it? How is it?
28:48 Somebody has done something, which he can then in some way apply out here.
28:55 So I find him a very, you know, he is a person with great curiosity.
29:00 And a great, you know, very open to this willingness to learn new things.
29:09 In terms of how overall foreign policy has happened,
29:15 he gives a lot of time to it, because today it is a globalized world.
29:19 Sorry, let me ask this question again.
29:22 For example, the way he came up with a clear thought on what he is going to do
29:29 as a country on Russia-Ukraine war.
29:34 That actually makes us wonder that many a times he is much more strategic,
29:41 very bold, and sometime he astonishes us by his understanding of the global politics.
29:48 Well, you could say that. I may not say it now in 2023,
29:56 because I have seen in last 10 years that he clearly has a very strong understanding
30:02 of the global politics, so it doesn't astonish me.
30:04 So, but, but it's a good example you gave.
30:08 You know, just that one sentence, "Yeh yudh ka yug nahi hai".
30:13 Basically that this is not an era of conflict.
30:18 I mean, this is what he said when he was meeting President Putin in Samarkand.
30:24 I mentioned to you because in a way, if I were to take a single sentence
30:31 "Global sentiment".
30:32 See, global sentiment today does not envisage conflict or war as a solution
30:39 because it has so many consequences for everybody's life.
30:42 So, I would say he, in that one sentence, articulated what were the views of very diverse countries.
30:50 So, you know, my take, very honestly, is here is a person, because, see,
30:59 to be very honest, I met him for the first time in 2011.
31:01 I got to know him really well only after I became Foreign Secretary.
31:06 I did not know how much he had travelled before, what his experiences were,
31:11 how much he had picked up, what his connections were.
31:14 I'm still amazed at the people that he knows, the places that he's been.
31:18 He will say, "You know, I remember, achha main wahan gaya tha, mera wo anubhav tha".
31:24 So, you know, there is a lot to him which perhaps only those who know him well really get.
31:34 Now, since I've had the privilege of working for the last 10 years,
31:37 I can say, "Okay, I know him a little bit better than I did 10 years ago".
31:42 So, there is a lot of, for him, interest in the world.
31:51 If you look, even at the way we've handled G20, look at our motto,
31:57 the idea of one family, of one future.
32:02 Look at the fact that we consulted 125 people.
32:06 We did our presidency, we are doing our presidency in a truly global manner.
32:12 Today, you actually have someone who's thought this through and said,
32:18 "Now, I'm not only speaking for 1.4 billion Indians,
32:21 but I'm also speaking for 125 other countries because they're not on the table
32:26 and they need somebody to speak for them".
32:29 The scale of G20 has changed completely.
32:33 The coming presidencies will have to be matched with those of other countries.
32:37 This will be a challenge.
32:39 One more thing, since you were travelling during the BRICS summit,
32:44 when the Chandrayaan issue happened, we heard from somewhere that
32:48 on one hand, you're having the BRICS summit, and on the other, other issues are going on.
32:51 Chandrayaan has been landed.
32:54 In that, their focus was equally on Chandrayaan.
32:57 So, we want to know a little bit about Narendra Modi.
33:00 What was he doing?
33:02 You know, it was a very interesting experience because we arrived in Johannesburg the first day.
33:11 So, the first event was a business event.
33:15 I didn't go because we had a foreign ministers meeting.
33:18 Then there was a retreat.
33:20 The leaders came for a retreat.
33:22 So, already by the time we reached the retreat, there was a little bit of talking had started.
33:28 Chandrayaan is going to happen. Landing is going to happen.
33:31 The next day was actually, we did a morning session.
33:37 And then the Prime Minister left the session because he wanted to join ISRO,
33:44 you know, given the strong sort of bonding that he has with them.
33:51 But by the second day, already, even in the BRICS, the talk had shifted to Chandrayaan.
34:00 So, I actually had a room, you know, where the entire room, in fact, I remember at one time,
34:08 there was a big screen like out there in the corner.
34:11 So, it was very difficult to talk without being distracted by the screen.
34:16 So, at some stage, the Prime Minister, the President of South Africa said,
34:21 "You know, Foreign Minister, you look like Chandrayaan is up there. You keep looking up there."
34:29 So, I think it had got into people's imagination and attention.
34:34 And that evening, I must tell you, we had, because the BRICS Plus,
34:39 so you had about 50 other countries, Presidents, Prime Ministers who joined.
34:43 So, the speech which President Ramaphosa gave, and it was like,
34:48 the Chandrayaan was like a collective, you know, everybody felt part of it.
34:56 In fact, he said that, he said, "I'm going to sit next to Prime Minister Modi,
35:01 and I hope some of it will rub off onto me."
35:03 So, that kind of sentiment was very strong.
35:07 And in fact, at one stage, I remember, there was a long table, a U-shaped table,
35:11 maybe 150 people were sitting there.
35:13 And people just spontaneously got up.
35:17 So, Prime Minister actually had to go the length of the table,
35:21 individually shaking hands, accepting.
35:25 So, we had that sense in the BRICS that this was not just India's achievement.
35:29 That very large part of the world was with us.
35:33 That, I mean, as President Ramaphosa said, you know,
35:37 "Your achievement we see as our achievement."
35:39 You know, we hope, given India, that there is an expectation in the rest of the world
35:44 that we are a kind of country, we will share, we will, you know,
35:48 in a sense, help with other people's capacities.
35:51 So, people do see it as a bigger event.
35:54 Right.
35:55 Before people ask questions, I have one last question for you.
35:58 Maybe after that, a few more questions.
36:00 Your speech at B-20 and the Prime Minister's speech,
36:04 both have presented a lot of new potential things.
36:08 It seems that you will impact a global conversation in a different way now.
36:14 So, he said something about green credit, and he also said that
36:18 we should talk about carbon credit in the future.
36:20 And a lot of people are enjoying carbon credit.
36:23 What did he mean by that?
36:25 Look, I will not say that the Prime Minister wants to be clear,
36:33 he does that, when he wants to be a little more open,
36:38 he does that on purpose.
36:40 But leave that aside.
36:42 Our goal there, we are talking about the B-20 meeting.
36:51 The main topic before the B-20 meeting is the supply chain.
37:00 The supply chain, what we call, is concentration.
37:04 If you look at the world today,
37:07 manufacturing is over-concentrated.
37:11 There is manufacturing in some areas, but not in many areas.
37:16 The pandemic has proved that such a situation puts the world economy in a dilemma.
37:23 Because, God forbid, if there is a disruption,
37:27 the whole world has to suffer the consequences.
37:31 So, the main issues that you will see now,
37:36 one is how to resilientize the supply chain in the economy.
37:44 And how to democratize it.
37:53 How to increase transparency and trust in the digital domain.
37:58 How to encourage green growth in sustainability.
38:04 And some countries are making it their business.
38:11 And the real green growth that should happen,
38:15 and this is our old complaint, not just ours,
38:18 it is the complaint of the entire developed world,
38:22 that if you look at the commitment in Paris,
38:25 that every year you will give at least $100 billion.
38:29 Now we all know, look at the performance,
38:32 that everyone gave a commitment there.
38:34 And after that, a lot of creative accounting was happening,
38:38 that put this, put that, somehow we will reach 100.
38:42 So, I think that overall our messaging was that
38:50 G20 should be strengthened on the global south,
39:00 because the solution to the problems of work, debt, trade, investment flow,
39:08 transparent connectivity, digital equity, gender gaps,
39:13 sustainable lifestyle, these are the issues.
39:17 So, all these should be solved.
39:20 And if a group like G20, which is the most powerful country in the world,
39:28 cannot lead it, then who will?
39:30 Now we will take some questions from the audience.
39:36 Thanks very much, sir. Thanks, sir, for answering those questions.
39:38 Our first question is by Ambassador Philip Green,
39:41 Australia's High Commissioner to India.
39:43 Thanks very much, sir, for joining us.
39:45 Thank you, ma'am. And let me first say, Minister,
39:49 how much I agree with your comments about your chairing of the G20.
39:53 It's been very ambitious, but also designed to listen carefully
39:58 and to bring consensus.
40:00 As you know, sir, I am new in your country,
40:04 and one of the ways I'm trying to learn about your country
40:07 is to read your book, The India Way.
40:10 I can suggest better ways.
40:12 If I may quote from your book, you write,
40:16 "The India of the Mahabharata era was also multipolar,
40:22 with its leading powers balancing each other.
40:26 But once competition between its two major poles
40:32 could not be contained, others, per force, had to take sides."
40:38 Are we approaching a similar time in our world?
40:44 And would India be ready to take sides?
40:48 I hope not.
40:51 Meaning, I hope not to the first part of the question,
40:54 which is I hope we are not approaching such a situation.
40:59 I actually think we are not approaching such a situation.
41:02 I think the world is getting more multipolar.
41:06 I mean, if I were to give you India's own example,
41:10 a few decades ago, but not so long ago, actually,
41:15 we would be, say, number 10 hierarchically
41:19 in terms of the nominal size of our economy.
41:22 Today, we are number five.
41:25 The fact that, in fact, the G7 today has yielded place to G20
41:29 itself tells you the world is becoming more multipolar.
41:32 So, I don't think today global decisions are any more
41:36 a prerogative of a small group,
41:39 nor are they a prerogative of two countries.
41:42 Okay?
41:44 So, you can, yes, I accept that in the world,
41:47 there is, you know, a particular country is number one
41:51 in terms of size and influence.
41:54 India may be number two.
41:55 But I don't think today one and two have the weight
41:58 and the influence and the clout and the standing
42:01 that they can control the entire international system.
42:04 In fact, I would argue the opposite,
42:06 that the world is getting more regionalized,
42:09 that if you look at the relative weight of the three, four, five,
42:12 all the way to 20 and beyond 20,
42:15 that, in fact, they have a much greater say today
42:19 in the world than they had before.
42:23 So, I would say the kind of analysis,
42:28 the situation which happened in the Mahabharata,
42:31 I don't think will happen in the world today.
42:36 I think we are genuinely heading for a much more multipolar world,
42:41 which will require a kind of a much more nimbler diplomacy.
42:50 Obviously, this world will have its frictions and problems,
42:55 but that kind of sharp polarization,
42:58 I think that's of a different era.
43:03 Thanks very much, Dr. S.J. Shankar, for that answer.
43:06 Thanks very much, Ambassador Green, for the question.
43:08 Our next question is by Lieutenant General Satish Suha,
43:11 the former Chief of Integrated Defense Staff.
43:13 Over to you, sir.
43:15 Thank you.
43:19 Good evening, sir, and thank you very much for a very excellent,
43:23 what should I say, decoding.
43:25 Sir, allow me to take you away from G20,
43:29 only to bring us back to it.
43:32 The United Nations Security Council reforms seem to be a distant dream.
43:39 India and a couple of other countries, it seems,
43:42 are not likely to be inducted as permanent members.
43:48 Coming back to G20, now, G20, as you've just explained,
43:53 and we've all been experiencing over the past one year,
43:56 the Indian government has very imaginatively
44:01 and skillfully, adroitly turned this G20 into G120, 125, actually.
44:08 India is also increasingly becoming the voice of the global south.
44:14 Is there a likelihood of the G20 gaining importance
44:21 at the expense of the United Nations,
44:24 which is getting increasingly marginalized anyway,
44:28 even if I'm overstating it?
44:30 I do realize that G20 initially started as an economic grouping,
44:36 but that too can change.
44:38 Your comments, sir.
44:41 You know, first of all, where the UN Security Council and UN reform is concerned,
44:47 it's not going to be easy, but I would urge you not to be pessimistic,
44:53 because the really big achievements do take time,
44:58 they take hard work, they take a lot of negotiation,
45:01 and I'll give you a very good example of it.
45:03 We've just had a BRICS summit in Johannesburg.
45:08 If you look at the summit declaration,
45:14 for the first time there is an explicit reference
45:19 to Security Council memberships,
45:23 "ships" in plural.
45:26 And there is a specific reference to India, Brazil, and South Africa.
45:34 So, it is not that this is something which is stuck and which is not moving.
45:40 Yes, it is moving slowly.
45:42 Yes, we would like the intergovernmental negotiations in New York
45:45 to pick up pace, and we want it to be text-based,
45:48 we want people to be more outcome-oriented.
45:52 But in diplomacy, diplomacy is not for impatient people.
45:59 It's something you have to plug away and keep plugging away.
46:04 In some ways, it's almost as patient as the army.
46:07 So, the question about G20.
46:13 You know, what we are seeing, unfortunately in many ways,
46:19 is a gridlock in the Security Council on some issues.
46:25 Even before the Ukraine conflict started,
46:28 we actually felt that the Security Council
46:32 no longer authentically represented the entirety of the membership.
46:37 I mean, if what I can say today,
46:41 the most populous country of the world is not there,
46:44 if Africa, 54 nations of Africa are not there,
46:47 if Latin America is not there,
46:49 if, you know, so there are, I mean, the fact that it's anachronistic
46:54 is very visible.
46:57 So, today, I think that pressure for change,
47:02 because that pressure for change was also visible even at the BRICS,
47:06 I mean, which is why you are now beginning to see
47:09 the evolution of positions out there.
47:15 So, G20 will pursue its mandate,
47:20 and its mandate is global growth and development.
47:24 The United Nations and the United Nations Security Council has its mandate.
47:28 The Security Council particularly has a mandate of ensuring
47:32 international peace and security.
47:34 One cannot substitute for the other.
47:38 And I would caution against, you know,
47:42 transposing problems and agenda of one onto the other.
47:46 I think each have a place, each have a contribution.
47:49 They need to do that.
47:52 You cannot fix the UN by saying, let's go and do the job elsewhere.
47:56 That will not fix the UN.
47:58 It will actually make for a weak and increasingly ineffective UN,
48:02 which is the direction in which we see it going right now.
48:05 So, at some stage, I think the members of the UN themselves
48:09 have to wake up to the realization that the longer they put off reforms,
48:13 the less representative the Security Council is.
48:16 Frankly, the less the credibility of the UN would be.
48:21 People will then go and do things outside the UN.
48:23 Not necessarily in the G20, they'll go and do it in other ways as well outside the UN.
48:28 Thanks very much, sir, for that.
48:30 And we also have a leading business voice of the country.
48:33 Mr. Gaurav Dalmia is among us, who is the chairperson of the Dalmia Group Holdings.
48:36 So, over to you for your question.
48:38 So, may I step away from diplomacy to commercial aspects of globalization?
48:45 Last year, China's exports fell by 22%.
48:50 And we're all betting on China plus one kind of uptick for India.
48:55 India's manufacturing exports fell by 12% as well during that same period.
49:00 So, we, a bunch of businessmen who discuss global macro,
49:04 were wondering what the solution to this is.
49:06 Obviously, domestic productivity is one.
49:09 More FTAs, maybe another.
49:11 What recipe do you see for India to be a much bigger player in the global supply chain?
49:19 You know, I'm not questioning your figures,
49:22 but like any figures, I think it's very important to drill down and draw the right conclusions.
49:28 I don't think India should be depicted as a China plus one.
49:36 I don't think you're being fair to yourself.
49:39 I would say countries will invest in India.
49:45 We ourselves will invest in India when we actually show our capability, our competitiveness.
49:52 We create the infrastructure.
49:54 We have the human skills.
49:56 We have the institutional basis to become a modern economy,
50:00 which is contributing more to the global economy.
50:03 And that is essentially what we've been trying to do for the last decade.
50:07 Because what quite honestly happened earlier was,
50:14 it was almost as though we had given up on manufacturing.
50:16 You know, you had this narrative, we said, oh, we're great on services,
50:20 which was a cop-out, very frankly, of manufacturing capability.
50:24 Now, in the last decade, you've seen a different direction.
50:28 You've seen a conscious effort at creating the requisite infrastructure,
50:33 which is articulated in the Gati Shakti initiative.
50:37 You have seen developments like the performance production linked incentives.
50:43 The idea is to get world-class business into India.
50:48 You have seen recapitalization of banks and a credit support policy to business.
50:54 And you have seen an overall easier to make it do business climate,
51:00 which frankly contrasted with what at that time was an unspoken,
51:05 making it harder to do business climate.
51:08 So, this, you know, people will, the world will come to India,
51:14 not because India is a China plus one,
51:17 but because India has the capacities and the capability,
51:20 the international credibility and the capability,
51:24 which will make us a good destination. And I think that is happening.
51:27 Now, obviously, there will be geopolitics in play.
51:34 And geopolitics will make a lot of international businesses hedge more.
51:40 But I think it's important for us not to be complicit,
51:45 to continue the path which we have done since 2014,
51:49 to find ways of today growing manufacturing in this country,
51:54 because at the end of the day, this is pro-employment policy.
51:58 You cannot give jobs to people if you do not have expanded manufacturing in this country.
52:03 And those who claim to, you know, have to be pro-poor,
52:07 when you look at what they were doing with industrialization
52:10 and manufacturing and infrastructure,
52:12 I think you could see what the disconnect was out there.
52:18 So, today, I do feel there is a big opportunity for us,
52:23 because why is the opportunity?
52:26 One, the world wants more supply chains.
52:29 It wants redundant, resilient, reliable supply chains.
52:33 The world does not want to see concentrated manufacturing in limited geographies.
52:38 The world wants to see trust and transparency when it comes to digital business.
52:43 The world wants business to be business.
52:47 It's sensitive about, you know, how business is handled politically by various states.
52:54 I think all those things work in our favor today.
52:58 So, we have this opportunity before us,
53:02 but that opportunity will not realize itself automatically.
53:06 [Music]