AD PRO senior editor Lila Allen and a panel of leading designers will join in conversation about the latest color trends. Attendees will gain insights that will help them shape stylish, up-to-date interiors in this AD PRO member event.
Featuring Frances Merrill, founder of AD100-listed interiors firm Reath Design; Ashley Hicks, the multidisciplinary British designer; Courtney McLeod, founder and principal of Right Meets Left Interior Design; moderated by Lila Allen, senior editor at AD PRO.
Featuring Frances Merrill, founder of AD100-listed interiors firm Reath Design; Ashley Hicks, the multidisciplinary British designer; Courtney McLeod, founder and principal of Right Meets Left Interior Design; moderated by Lila Allen, senior editor at AD PRO.
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LifestyleTranscript
00:00 Hi everyone, my name is Lila Allen and I'm the senior editor of ADPro.
00:10 I'm really excited to be here with you today for this ADPro member workshop in which we'll
00:15 be discussing one of our readers' absolute favorite topics, which is of course color.
00:21 Each fall, the design world excitedly anticipates the rollout of the upcoming Color of the Year,
00:25 a franchise initiated by Pantone more than 20 years ago and now it's seen across industries
00:30 ranging from beauty to interior design to products.
00:34 I wouldn't be surprised if there's a Color of the Year toothpaste at this point.
00:38 While it's fun getting to read the tea leaves for the upcoming year, for you, the designers
00:43 that are actually in the weeds working with clients every day on projects that may not
00:48 be ready for months or years, knowing what's ahead is really critical.
00:53 And also what's timeless, what's going to look tired by the time you're done.
00:57 So with that in mind, we put together a trend report that was just published earlier today
01:02 on the colors and everything you need to know about what is happening right now, from how
01:08 AI is affecting how designers are speccing colors to the palettes that are trending now.
01:18 To get to the bottom of these questions, of course, we turn to designers like you and
01:23 designers in the 8100, designers at the top of their game to get their best practices,
01:28 their ideas, their inspiration, their tips and tricks, their favorite shades of white.
01:33 And we have three of those experts with us here today, whose reputation with color precedes
01:39 them.
01:40 Just to note, I'm asking my colleagues to drop their and my handles into the chat.
01:45 So if you'd like to give them a follow, please do.
01:49 Without any further ado, we have first Ashley Hicks, an Oxfordshire and Milan-based interdisciplinary
01:56 designer, whose work encompasses architecture, interiors, furniture, textiles, and books.
02:03 Earlier this year, he released the book "David Hicks in Color" with Cabana, a volume on the
02:08 processes and influences that shaped his father David Hicks' career.
02:12 And it also inspired a story on 80 Pro about canopy beds, one of our favorites.
02:18 We also have Courtney McLeod, the founder and principal of Right Meets Left Interior
02:22 Design in New York City.
02:24 She also stars in 80's Space Savers series.
02:27 If you haven't checked that out yet, please head over to our YouTube channel and give
02:31 it a watch.
02:32 It's a lot of fun.
02:33 Her very own colorful home has been featured in Clever.
02:36 And Courtney, I believe you're redoing it as we speak.
02:40 Although today she's calling in from Paris where she's on a very glamorous trip.
02:44 So thanks for joining us, Courtney.
02:46 Finally, we have Frances Merrill, founder and principal of Reith Design, an 8100 listed
02:52 interiors firm based in Los Angeles.
02:54 Although in the spirit of these things, she is not calling in from Los Angeles, she is
02:58 calling in from Portland today.
03:02 In the past year, AD featured a story on a chromatic hideaway she developed on the coast
03:06 of Massachusetts.
03:08 If you're looking for any inspiration on colorful counters, millwork, stoves, it really packs
03:13 a punch.
03:14 I have to confess I'm fangirling a little bit today.
03:17 I said on the call right before this, this is kind of my dream lineup for a color panel.
03:22 So really excited to be here with you all today.
03:25 So thank you for joining us.
03:27 Before we continue, just a few housekeeping notes.
03:31 We will have a Q&A portion at the end of the talk.
03:34 For the last 10 or 15 minutes or so, while the chat is disabled, because this is a Zoom
03:40 webinar, you can put something in the Q&A box and we will see that and be able to address
03:45 it.
03:47 And some of you also submitted questions in advance.
03:49 Thanks to those of you who did.
03:51 Second, we are recording this session.
03:53 So if you need to hop off, take a call, whatever, you can find whatever you missed tomorrow
03:59 in the AD Pro color trends report.
04:01 This will be embedded as a video there.
04:03 So just keep an eye out for that.
04:06 And finally, at the end of the presentation, before you totally X out of the window, there
04:10 will be a little survey that pops up.
04:12 So you can give us a little feedback on today.
04:14 So thanks for listening in.
04:16 And without any further ado, Courtney, I'd love to start with you.
04:21 You actually appeared in our trend report.
04:24 And you spoke about the importance of color hierarchy in an interior.
04:28 When you start a project, when you start, where do you start when you're imagining a
04:33 space?
04:34 What do you consider the primary thing, secondary, the accents?
04:39 What do you consider the hierarchy?
04:41 >> Sure.
04:42 Well, Laila, thank you so much for including me.
04:45 It's a real delight to be on the panel.
04:48 For me, of course, it starts with the client.
04:52 My practice, we're known for having fun with color, using bold color.
04:57 But that means something different for everyone.
05:00 And so it's really understanding who our client is and really sort of following the lead from
05:05 there.
05:06 For me, I start with my favorite things, which is wallpaper and paint.
05:11 So it's the walls, the ceiling.
05:13 That's where I like to start to create a beautiful envelope.
05:16 And then, you know, usually we do get to use some fun wallpapers.
05:20 And I find that's a great way to develop a palette for a space.
05:25 And you know, if we are doing a wallpaper, my favorite trick is just to pick the smallest
05:29 color in there and then put that on a large piece in the space.
05:34 It has a way of with your eye just making everything feel really cohesive.
05:39 So that's usually my little trick.
05:41 >> It looks like you did that here with that blue sofa.
05:44 >> We did.
05:45 We did.
05:46 >> Very nice.
05:47 And was this your apartment, Courtney, that we're looking at?
05:49 >> No, this is a loft in downtown New York that we did for a young family.
05:55 And it's a typical New York City loft.
05:58 It's 3,000 square feet with light on either end.
06:01 And the beauty of a space like that is the main living space open plan.
06:06 And so we had a 40-foot wall to play with.
06:09 And so we brought in this incredible pizza wallpaper that the clients and I fell in love
06:15 with.
06:16 And it's got just about every color under the sun in there.
06:18 And so we were really able to pull everything out and have a lot of fun here.
06:24 You're seeing blues and pinks and yellows and purples and greens and just about everything.
06:29 But again, that wallpaper helps to tie everything together so that it doesn't feel so chaotic
06:35 and it's easy to live with.
06:37 >> Totally.
06:38 Love it.
06:39 Thanks for sharing that.
06:40 Ashley, I'd love to hear kind of your take on this question.
06:44 Where do you start a color concept?
06:46 I know you're in Martina's Milan flat.
06:49 You used two 15th century textiles as muses.
06:53 Is starting with an object a common strategy for you?
06:55 Or where else do you look for ideas?
06:58 >> Yes.
06:59 Yes.
07:00 Sometimes it starts from an object.
07:04 I think sometimes it just, you know, like why not have the entrance hall in a rather
07:08 wonderful red to just sort of, you know, bring us in in a warm way.
07:13 Anyway, this here is the entrance hall of that same apartment in Milan, which I share
07:19 with my partner Martina Mondadori.
07:23 And here there's an amusing thing talking about working from original objects.
07:27 There's, I don't know if you can see on the sort of easel in the window, there's a Renaissance
07:33 marble panel that must have come from a church probably originally.
07:37 And inset into it is a bit of green porphyry.
07:41 So sort of ancient Roman green porphyry column cut into a slice and shoved in the middle
07:46 of that in 1500 or something.
07:48 And so I then painted the entrance door, which was just a plain white painted door, very
07:53 ugly with a disc of faux porphyry to match that.
07:59 Yeah, so it doesn't tell us much about colour, does it?
08:03 But I'm there's an ancient colour brought into a modern room.
08:06 >> No, and I love that kind of the faux material is there as well.
08:11 >> Oh, well, yeah.
08:12 No.
08:13 And then this is my living room in Oxfordshire here where I am now.
08:18 And so that has walls painted to look like squares of green leather stitched together.
08:25 And you can't see the stitching, but I promise you it's there.
08:29 But the whole scheme is sort of slightly derived from visiting Jaipur in India quite a lot.
08:37 And so it started off having more sort of pink sandstone colour, which has over the
08:42 30 years the room's life, it's turned into a deeper sort of maroon.
08:48 Just because the pink sandstone has gone, but the green has remained.
08:53 But I mean, yeah.
08:55 >> Fantastic.
08:56 Did you say it was actually painted or that this was leather applied to the wall?
08:59 >> No, the walls are painted.
09:01 Yeah, there's no real anything in my world.
09:04 Everything's fake.
09:05 >> That's fantastic.
09:06 I love the I'm a big purple fan.
09:10 So happy to see a large purple rug there as well.
09:12 I've got one next to me right now.
09:15 >> Yeah, good.
09:16 Oh, and this is, oh, look, that's the room I'm sitting in, which is my library.
09:21 And there there's this table that I made, I carved out of resin to look like a fragment
09:29 of a giant ancient head made of lapis lazuli or something.
09:33 And so that blue, the whole room you can see is it really comes together from the fabric
09:38 on the walls, which was a David Hicks, you know, one of my David Hicks fabrics for Lee
09:44 Jofa, but something like 25 years ago, and the stripe it's now out of, you know, no longer
09:52 in production.
09:54 But everything in the room has this blue, you know, from the fabric has come together
09:59 with these bookcases that I painted and then the table and accessories, there's all sorts
10:05 of blue bits.
10:06 >> That's fantastic.
10:07 Well, on that first room where we saw the porphyry, where did you find the panel?
10:13 >> The panel Martina's father bought many years ago.
10:18 >> Beautiful.
10:19 Well, Frances, I'd love to turn to you for a moment.
10:25 Presumably the clients that are seeking you out are not afraid of a little color.
10:29 So what requests are they bringing to you these days?
10:32 What are they asking for?
10:35 >> You know, I think earlier in my career, there was a lot of felt like me pushing people
10:41 to be more bold with color.
10:43 And it's funny, I think it's actually switched a little bit that we now have people who are
10:47 really coming to us and I'm like, really?
10:50 Okay, we can do that.
10:52 And trying to figure out how to do it in a way that will feel still sort of gracious
10:59 to live in and lovely and not like you're kind of being yelled at by the space you're
11:05 in.
11:06 So I think a lot of what we're doing is people are coming to us with really wonderful color
11:10 ideas and I am so happy to be pushed outside of my comfort zone that way.
11:16 But I think what we're really kind of advocating for is like, well, maybe we tone it down a
11:19 little or maybe that color that you think you love once it's large and somewhere should
11:25 actually be a little moodier, maybe a little darker, a little drabber really and people
11:31 often are like, no, no, I want bright and I want and then sort of we test and we test
11:37 and we test and it ends up usually maybe being knocked down a couple which still reads, you
11:43 know, as a very, no one would accuse it of not being colorful, but I think it's about
11:51 finding the tone that works.
11:53 Have you ever had to kind of redo something once it went up when it was just large?
11:58 No, really, because I think I'm a broken record.
12:02 I often have people write me like, oh, what's that color?
12:04 I'm like, I'm not going to tell you because you need to test it.
12:08 And I, you know, I have especially friends of mine who are like, just tell me what it
12:11 was and I'll do it.
12:12 And I'm like, no, you need to look at it in the morning and the evening.
12:15 Right, of course.
12:17 And I think we're going to get a little bit to that later in the questions today, too.
12:23 Well, Ashley, it's appropriate for me to ask this question in this room that looks absolutely
12:28 pitch dark right now.
12:31 But what color strategies do you use in spaces that receive poor natural light or and also
12:37 small spaces?
12:38 Do you have any kind of tricks that you pull out in these cases?
12:43 I'm not sure I really have tricks, but I mean, my father actually had a sort of a thing that,
12:50 you know, if a room doesn't have much daylight, the worst thing you can do is painted a light
12:54 color.
12:55 You know, you should always paint it a strong color or a dark color and it will it will
13:00 feel brighter as a result.
13:02 And you know, and that does, I think, hold true.
13:06 These pictures are my bedroom, which I painted after my first wife decided she'd prefer not
13:13 to sleep in it with me.
13:14 I painted it this this sort of dark, moody red and with sort of, you know, Aztec masonry,
13:23 I called it, but blocks of random blocks of of just color.
13:31 And it gives a wonderful sort of warming kind of, you know, cozy feel for the room.
13:36 And then I have all these gold objects that glow against the red.
13:40 And it's really rather wonderful.
13:42 My daughters, who were teenagers at the time, said that it was regal and it looked like
13:47 I was living in a museum, which both sounded perfect to me.
13:52 I think there's another room as well.
13:58 This is this is another tiny space, which was in Milan, Salone di Mobile.
14:04 Last year, it was a little we were meant to do a dining room in this sort of they weren't
14:10 I mean, they weren't meant to be tents.
14:12 I tented the interior.
14:14 They were sort of mirrored cubes on the roof of a building in Milan.
14:19 And they were so small, you could only fit three people at the dining table, which seemed
14:22 an unsociable number.
14:24 So I did a wall of mirror to make it into a look like, you know, a table for six instead.
14:30 But I tended it in again, dark red, one of my printed linens.
14:36 And it's a tiny space and had no daylight at all when once I closed it off with with
14:41 the tenting.
14:42 But it did feel sort of rather nice and cozy and unsurprising on a hot Milan day.
14:51 It really is any help, really.
14:53 I don't think I have any practical advice for anyone.
14:56 Well, not everything has to be practical either.
14:59 You know, it's worth just really going for it.
15:02 I remember everybody discussing this in Milan.
15:04 It was really a place to see.
15:07 Well, Frances, back to you, kind of relating to something we just discussed a moment ago.
15:13 And also we were just talking about Ashley.
15:16 How do you adjust color at all, if at all, relative to geography?
15:22 For example, right now you're in Portland.
15:24 I know it can be kind of gray.
15:26 You know, I don't know if you're thinking about color in a different way there than
15:30 you would in Southern California.
15:32 But how do you think about it?
15:34 I mean, I, yes, definitely.
15:37 But I think we probably think about it differently in different parts of Los Angeles.
15:41 Also, I think it really does come down to each area is a pretty unique place and why
15:49 they really need to test it.
15:50 I think, you know, during the pandemic, we learned how much could be done over Zoom,
15:55 but I will still get on an airplane to see paint colors, even if everything else can
16:01 be done differently, I think.
16:04 I'm going to be a broken record, but you need to test it and look at it.
16:09 I think what Ashley said, and maybe I learned it from one of his father's books, but I think
16:15 low light is definitely a place for darker color.
16:18 I mean, I think those are sort of some of the things that definitely make sense.
16:22 And, you know, if you have light coming from some direction and you want to have a beautiful
16:26 sheer, you know, they're all.
16:28 Right.
16:29 I mean, I have also just in my own writing and talking to designers, heard of plenty
16:34 of clients who maybe live somewhere very dreary and they just can't stand being around anymore.
16:39 Darkness or drabness outside.
16:41 And so they want a house that's quite bright and cheery inside, too.
16:45 So I think that can also be a sort of more emotional way of thinking about it.
16:52 And Frances also, do you ever kind of think about how the exterior is coming in as you're
16:58 conceiving an interior?
16:59 For example, if a room has an amazing view onto a garden that's blooming and full of
17:05 flowers, like, do you do you consider that at all in the color scheme you're coming up
17:08 with, not even just for paint, but for upholstery or little accents in the room?
17:11 Yeah, I mean, I think.
17:15 Hopefully you're thinking about everything, everything all the time.
17:21 But I think if you have a beautiful view and you have light that comes in a certain time,
17:25 then you might orient the room differently.
17:27 You might choose your window treatments differently or try and pick up some colors and upholstery
17:32 or something that way.
17:34 Right.
17:35 Well, Courtney, I'm going to kick it over to you for the next one.
17:40 Are there any and actually, I have to confess, Ashley, I think I got this question.
17:46 It was inspired by something in the book that you put out or maybe one of your father's
17:52 books.
17:53 I think it may have been a piece of his advice.
17:54 But are there certain rooms and certain colors that you would never put together?
17:59 And how do you conceive of color in relation to the function of a room?
18:02 Yeah, you know, I'm I don't have a lot of boundaries when it comes to color.
18:08 I'm pretty game to try new things.
18:12 I think the one, though, that I always tend to avoid is mixing a brown with a really bright
18:19 kind of color.
18:21 I just when I think of brown, when I love brown, it makes me feel very, you know, serene
18:27 and and and lovely.
18:29 And so I like to kind of keep the palette a little bit more muted.
18:33 But that's probably the only one that I that I stick to in terms of avoiding color combinations.
18:40 And of course, you know, function is always number one.
18:43 And you know, if if a client wants to paint their bedroom, you know, I piercing, you know,
18:53 lime green, you know, I have a conversation with them about that.
18:59 And, you know, if they want it, we'll do it.
19:00 But, you know, of course, you know, yep, that image is is a fun one.
19:05 It was a small hallway between two kids bedrooms.
19:09 So, you know, that's a great spot to just really have some fun and do something quite
19:13 bold.
19:14 But yeah, generally, you know, kitchens, I like to be really bright and fun main spaces.
19:19 You know, I think people are a little bit afraid to really commit to color.
19:23 And, you know, I I tend to view, you know, certain bold colors, they can become neutrals
19:29 in a way.
19:30 And I often find that when the walls are a bright color, it makes it a little bit easier
19:36 to work with other bright colors in space versus putting those with a white wall.
19:42 And that's usually something I have to convince clients of.
19:45 But by the end, by the end, they're on my side.
19:49 And of course, you know, bedrooms, they should they should be flattering, number one.
19:55 And and, you know, serene.
19:58 Right.
19:59 I loved on the banana hallway, how you had this sort of translucent wall kind of against
20:05 the back where you've applied the same same color and same pattern.
20:09 But it actually just kind of teases what's behind it a little bit rather than it being
20:13 kind of blocked in with the pattern.
20:16 Yeah, nice touch.
20:18 It was really fun.
20:19 And then we decided to kind of keep going and bring in a paint color to kind of mimic
20:24 the bananas.
20:25 And, you know, instead of, you know, sort of just stopping with the wallpaper.
20:29 And it's a really fun scratch and sniff paper.
20:35 How long does that last?
20:36 Quite a while, actually.
20:37 And it's funny.
20:38 Willy Wonka.
20:39 Yeah.
20:40 And we like to scratch a different banana each.
20:41 It's really cute.
20:42 Oh, my God.
20:43 That's fun for a kids room.
20:50 Well, Frances, we in the past at Pro have done a story on kind of custom color and the
20:59 different extremes people will go to to kind of arrive at the exact right shade.
21:05 Do you work much with custom color, whether it's in paint or kind of other parts of the
21:09 room?
21:10 You know, I don't.
21:12 I actually just thinking about this question, I was like, oh, I would love to sort of be
21:16 there mixing because I am always like, wait, what is that color?
21:19 Like, it doesn't exist.
21:20 I want it.
21:23 At this point, we work so much with families that I just think ahead to them, like needing
21:28 to touch up their paint in five years and trying to get the exact, exact mix back.
21:35 I think also for me personally, like the real alchemy and what I love is how colors combine.
21:42 And so I think that's where you can really get something very custom.
21:45 I mean, whether it's in this project where we the whole room had been painted and we
21:51 added wood paneling and we sandblasted and then sort of picked this purple hue on the
21:56 beams and getting to bring in kind of the different tones.
22:00 So I think that's you can do so much customization through combinations of different materials.
22:06 And I think that's that's that's my favorite thing to do.
22:10 I'm noticing a trend here between that and your Zoom background.
22:15 I know my my hotel room.
22:20 Nice happenstance.
22:21 And I mean, even I think this one looking at it, I think pink is sort of a color that
22:29 I don't know, misunderstood is probably a stupid way of saying it, but that I think
22:34 when you're pairing it like I love these colors with the rust and the kind of mustardy and
22:40 the painting that you get this.
22:41 I don't know.
22:42 I was fascinated.
22:43 I don't know if anyone took any of those color theory classes in school where you take the
22:48 paper and you make two colors look the same, two different colors look the same by putting
22:53 them on different backgrounds or you make the same color look different.
22:56 And I think I don't know, I could geek out on that stuff all day long.
23:01 So I think figuring out the combinations that make things feel special or different is this
23:07 fun part.
23:08 Right.
23:09 And I love that the pink here is almost just like a neutral.
23:12 Yeah, it's very, very soft.
23:16 I love that.
23:19 Pink seems to be popular among our readers just based on the traffic I see on images
23:24 with a big pink room versus other ones.
23:27 Great.
23:28 Well, Courtney, I don't think you've shown one today unless I'm mistaken, but I know
23:34 you are a fan of a painted ceiling.
23:37 And I'll just say I've also been noticing a lot of painted ceilings among profiles on
23:41 our AD Pro directory, which is a new tool we launched this year that connects readers
23:46 of AD with designers they can hire.
23:49 For you designers on the call, if you haven't looked at it yet, I recommend going and checking
23:53 it out and we would love to have you apply as well.
23:57 But here we're looking at a really great painted ceiling here.
24:01 Are there any kind of color rules that you apply when doing them?
24:04 And I'm going to guess that you may not have color rules because it sounds like you're
24:09 pretty open.
24:11 But if you have any sort of thoughts on how you approach these, I'd love to hear them.
24:15 Sure.
24:16 I mean, I think if you are going to go for color on the ceiling, you should be strategic
24:20 about it and understand how it's going to impact space.
24:24 And I think color and pattern on the ceiling, it's a great way to play with proportion.
24:28 I remember this particular project, this is a room, it was interior, zero natural light,
24:35 really tiny with really tall ceilings.
24:37 And I said, this is my favorite spot in the whole apartment.
24:42 And we basically used color to play with proportion.
24:46 And we added a picture rail and brought that color down and we put that really bold coral
24:52 on the ceiling to bring life into the space.
24:55 And then we grounded it with a darker wall.
24:59 Like everyone's been saying, I do love richer, deeper colors in dark spaces.
25:05 So that's one.
25:08 And so I also find I think pattern on a ceiling can bring the ceiling down a little bit as
25:13 well and makes you feel a little bit more cozy.
25:16 But yeah, and then if you're afraid to kind of use that trick, just the slightest blush
25:26 of a color.
25:28 I really love a really slight blush of either a pink or a yellow or light blue.
25:35 And it can be really just a hint.
25:37 Depending on what else is going in the space, it can really add a finishing touch to the
25:42 space.
25:43 Because I find sometimes with bold color, if you've just got the white ceiling, it feels
25:49 a little like you didn't finish it.
25:52 And I know you said you're a fan of wallpaper.
25:54 Do you ever use wallpaper on the ceiling too?
25:57 Yes, absolutely.
25:59 Absolutely.
26:00 Great.
26:01 Well, Ashley, one reason that I wanted to have you on the panel is because as we've
26:07 seen, you're sort of a polymath and you bring a perspective on decorative painting into
26:13 this.
26:14 I've seen some beautiful work of yours already today.
26:16 Could you walk us through a project or two of yours?
26:19 And what type of paint did you use?
26:21 What does the process of this look like?
26:23 Just kind of walk us through it.
26:25 Gosh.
26:26 Well, it's a big subject.
26:29 Yeah, well, I don't know what to say, really.
26:34 This is Martina's apartment in Milan again.
26:37 And the walls in here are stenciled with an old Persian design of sass leaves, which looks
26:47 to me like dancing ladies, which I thought was rather good for Martina, who quite likes
26:52 to dance.
26:53 But I stenciled them and then I drew the pattern adapted from an old picture I had and then
27:02 stenciled it and then sponged over it and then actually did, you can't see in the picture,
27:09 but it's got highlights and shadows, which I painted by hand, which took me weeks, which
27:14 is a nice excuse to stay there with her.
27:17 And so, you know, the highlights and shadows in the correct direction for the daylight
27:23 coming from the window.
27:25 So you can't see in this rather low res picture, but it actually gives a rather wonderful effect.
27:30 It looks like embossed leather or something like that or carved plaster.
27:34 And then over the door, there's what used to be an absolute standard thing in 18th century
27:41 decoration of having painted over doors.
27:44 And so here I've copied a relief plaque on the outside of the Villa Reale in Milan, which
27:53 Martina complains that it looks like a recruiting poster for the 10th Legion, you know, join
28:00 up and kill some Gauls or something, which she finds overly militaristic.
28:05 But I think it's just quite decorative.
28:07 And then through in the other room, and I think if you click, we'll go in there, there's
28:13 Piranesi's drawings of pastum, which, and these are done with a technique I invented
28:18 of pasting what you I think called burlap, so jute sacking, you know, with a very open
28:26 weave, so very like a mesh, like a net, and pasting that onto the wall, and then painting
28:32 on it just in white and sort of burnt umber.
28:37 So chiaroscuro, you know, so most of what you see is just the jute.
28:43 That's fantastic.
28:45 When did you develop that process?
28:47 Just have you been doing that?
28:50 Like about eight years ago, something like that, you know, I was doing my own rooms in
28:56 London, and I wanted to make them look as if they had tapestry on the wall.
29:02 And so I was going to imitate old tapestries.
29:05 And then I thought, actually, I'd do it, you know, monochrome and sepia.
29:09 So I ended up doing a view of Constantinople that a Frenchman had painted as a panorama
29:14 in 1818.
29:16 So I do different things, you know, and then there's, maybe if we click, we go on to another.
29:21 What's the other?
29:23 Oh, well, this is that first apartment in London that I painted eight years ago.
29:29 And so there I've done some, yeah, there I've done some sort of, you know, architectural
29:36 rusticated block work, you know, and there's a niche is filled with mirror, as you can
29:43 see.
29:44 So it's not actually an enormous enfilade, it's actually just two rooms.
29:49 And then over the door that we're looking through, I painted the frieze of the Parthenon.
29:56 And again, it's all got the shadows, you see, for the daylight, which is coming in for the
30:02 left, which was a very important thing.
30:04 And in the Renaissance, Isabella d'Este, when she had Mantegna and Piero di Cosimo,
30:10 when people paint pictures for her, studiolo, she specified, you know, you need the daylight
30:15 coming from the left or from the right.
30:20 And then if we go on, there's one more recent thing I did in a dining room in Milan, where
30:27 the it was for a client and the client said, Oh, I want Bemelman's bar from the Carlisle.
30:33 So I said, Well, why don't you hire an art student and they can do it for you?
30:37 And then we want you to do it.
30:38 So I said, Well, I won't do Bemelman's bar, but I'm happy to do New York in a different
30:44 way.
30:45 So I did 1937 photographs, wonderful photographs.
30:50 And I think this one must have been done to make the Chrysler building look taller than
30:54 the Empire State, you see on the right there.
30:56 I do, I do.
30:57 It's the only angle in the city where that would happen.
31:01 But it gives a rather good effect.
31:03 And this is again on that sort of jute sacking.
31:07 You can see the joins of the of the strips of it, which I think I found that quite fun.
31:12 It gives a kind of a rather kind of antique look to it in a way.
31:18 It's fantastic.
31:19 Um, actually, we've actually coined a term for this, the Bemelman's effect.
31:23 We were in a story on this last year, just so many people asking for Bemelman's bar or
31:28 something like Bemelman's bar.
31:30 I can't think of anything that would get get tired and boring more quickly than having
31:38 having your sort of attempt at Bemelman's bar in your own house.
31:41 Too much birthday cake Phoebe.
31:45 But I I love looking at these these last few, just because I mean, we are here in a color
31:51 trends workshop, but what you're showing us is really kind of ancient stuff.
31:57 I think that you said there is a Parthenon frieze up there.
32:00 And I just, you know, sometimes it's worth just looking to the past and and, you know,
32:08 picking things that you just love and are timeless.
32:12 Doesn't have to be about chasing, you know, the next color of the year or anything like
32:16 that.
32:17 Oh, dear.
32:18 I'm I'm afraid I think my connection is unstable.
32:21 Okay.
32:22 So I'm not sure how much you're getting of me.
32:24 But but anyway, yes, I love looking to the past.
32:27 I'm afraid I'm so old that really the past is all I've got.
32:31 But anyway, go on to somebody younger.
32:34 Well, on our end, you're coming through just fine.
32:36 But if you drop off anything, we will.
32:39 Well, of course, like we'll say something.
32:42 So but so far, so good.
32:45 Francis, you're an ardent colorist, but of course, white continues to be an important
32:52 color as well.
32:54 What role does white play in your work?
32:57 Well, I think for me, I mean, white is beautiful, white.
33:06 I think it is a good way to use some of the clear colors.
33:11 I think it may be the next image or one of them in the in a project we had recently where
33:18 some of the client loved these sort of blues and clear is sort of the best word I can say,
33:24 which I think they lend themselves to having space around them.
33:28 It gives gives room.
33:31 I've noticed throughout that sometimes you'll go for all over color.
33:34 Sometimes you are painting the millwork.
33:35 So you know, you're not hard on either side of that role.
33:39 I know some people always want the millwork to be white, for example.
33:44 Yeah.
33:45 No, I don't have any rules about it.
33:48 I'm just kind of what seems to be right for the space.
33:54 Again, yeah, I think white lets you have, I don't know, maybe colors that would overwhelm
34:02 some paler, pretty colors.
34:05 I don't know.
34:06 There's a freshness, I guess.
34:08 Right.
34:09 I know you mentioned when someone brings in a color and maybe you'll tone it down.
34:15 Does white ever kind of help in that process or not really?
34:18 No, I mean, I think with white, it's sort of the opposite where you're.
34:23 Well, I guess maybe it's the same, you're toning it down, but you often want a color
34:29 that maybe doesn't read as white if you're holding it up against a white sheet of paper.
34:35 But then when you've got it in context, it works as white.
34:39 Right.
34:40 More of that color theory coming in.
34:41 Yeah.
34:42 I'm just going to make a quick housekeeping note.
34:46 Again, if you joined us late, you do have the option of putting questions into the Q
34:52 and A box at the bottom.
34:53 Chat is disabled, but you can send in those questions and we can see them.
34:56 So we'll, in about 10 minutes or so, we're going to have some questions.
35:03 So feel free to put those in.
35:04 But for now, we'll go back to questions.
35:06 Just wanted to note that to the group.
35:08 Courtney, once again, I think based on the conversation so far, other than it sounds
35:15 like brown and bright colors, you're pretty game for things.
35:18 But are there any trends that you're avoiding in terms of color?
35:22 And maybe it's not colors themselves, but maybe it's, I don't know, certain things that
35:28 you're seeing out there that are being done.
35:29 And you're like, you know, that's maybe not for me.
35:31 Yeah.
35:32 Yeah.
35:33 I mean, I think color trends are really fun.
35:36 You know, I don't necessarily go to them necessarily to directly inform, you know, a current project.
35:44 But I will say there are some colors that are more challenging to get right, especially
35:51 with paint.
35:52 And I think red is a really hard one to get right.
35:55 And I think a fuchsia is quite hard.
35:59 You know, we've seen those colors kind of be at the forefront of trends over the last
36:05 few years.
36:06 And, you know, for me, reds, I tend to love something with a little bit more of like an
36:12 orange under it, something like biting into a juicy piece of fruit, like that kind of
36:17 a red.
36:18 You know, magenta is a hard one.
36:22 That one, that one, it can really overwhelm you.
36:27 I tend to not use that, you know, all over in a space.
36:32 And I've been seeing that color a lot.
36:35 So I just say, you know, be careful with that one.
36:40 I'm just going to say, sorry, I think we may have had the slides drop off.
36:44 I don't know if that's just on my side, but just flagging that to the production team.
36:47 If we can get the slides back up, that would be great because we can see more of their
36:50 work.
36:51 Yeah, no slides for that one.
36:53 OK.
36:54 All right.
36:55 Thanks so much.
36:57 So so magenta is the tricky one, it sounds like.
37:02 I find.
37:03 You find?
37:04 That would have been in small doses, maybe?
37:06 Definitely.
37:07 I like to use it more.
37:08 I think reds and magentas, I think they're much easier to use in upholstery and then
37:15 sort of wall coverings.
37:16 So that's where I tend to stay safe.
37:21 Well, Ashley, it's come up a little bit already, but I think I'd be remiss not to ask you about
37:27 growing up with one of design's great colorists, David Hicks.
37:31 As I mentioned earlier, you also just released a wonderful book about his work earlier this
37:34 year.
37:36 What lessons did you pick up from him or from your childhood home?
37:40 And I'd also love to know if there's anything you really disagree with and kind of branched
37:44 out on from his advice.
37:45 Lessons?
37:46 God, I didn't know.
37:50 You know, but he's got quite a lot to say about color, you know, and so by all means,
37:58 buy David Hicks in color from cabana magazine dot com and it'll tell you all his all his
38:04 lessons and he's got very strict rules.
38:07 You certainly don't paint any ceiling anything but white and all millwork, as you call it
38:13 must be white or it but you know, he was famous as being a bold colorist.
38:21 And what's quite interesting is that this picture here, this is Helena Rubinstein's
38:25 living room in London in 1962 or something.
38:29 61.
38:30 And this is his first bit of bold color.
38:33 And he said clearly in several of his books, he was he was very straightforward about it.
38:39 You know, it was her idea.
38:41 And you know, it's not that he regretted it and he wanted to blame it on blame it on the
38:46 client.
38:47 But he when he was hired by her, he was very young.
38:53 He was sort of 30 or something.
38:55 And he hadn't, you know, he had fairly muted color until then really and color combinations.
39:05 And then she was 83 years old and he has was having his first sort of proper site meeting
39:10 with her and in not site meeting, but you know, briefing meeting, I suppose, and she's
39:15 lying on a chaise longue in her hotel suite.
39:20 And he's sitting there next to her and he said to her, you know, Madam, have you thought
39:24 of a color for the walls of the reception room?
39:27 And she's got her eyes closed and she's lying there so long, silent that he starts to think
39:31 she's dead.
39:32 She starts worrying, what do you do with an 83 year old beauty billionaire?
39:37 You know, she's died and you're sitting there.
39:40 And then without opening her eyes, she says, I see purple.
39:43 She's wearing a purple Balenciaga tweed skirt.
39:48 And she calls her assistant to bring some scissors and snips off a bit of the hem of
39:54 the skirt and hands it to him saying, you know, have tweed dyed exactly this shade of
39:59 purple and then clashing magenta and scarlet upholstery.
40:03 And so he did exactly that.
40:05 And it was a great sort of triumph.
40:08 What's next?
40:09 We've got more.
40:10 Yeah, this is this is about the same time just after that, I suppose.
40:14 This is this is my parents bedroom in the London house.
40:18 And this is sort of showing what he.
40:26 I think the connection is unstable, Ashley.
40:29 I'll give you just a moment and see if it comes back.
40:32 But.
40:33 And he just chucked it on everything, a curtain, a chair done up in a sink, and then and then
40:41 this scarlet of the million carpet as well as a wonderful effect, you know, and this
40:46 print which in just a bit of it would be rather sort of pathetic.
40:49 But everywhere it's like, you know, it's tumbling roses.
40:53 It's sort of, you know, death by Helio Gabalus or something.
40:56 But but very, you know, my mom loved it.
41:00 Anyway, go on.
41:01 What's the next one?
41:02 We got another picture.
41:04 Yeah.
41:05 And this is the Duke of Abercrombie's library, a baron's court in Ireland.
41:10 And so here he had they had old dining room curtains from, I think, you know, sort of
41:17 1910 or something, which were this dark red velvet.
41:23 And they found those in the attic.
41:26 And and of course, they'd gone out of fashion in the 30s and they'd been taken down.
41:29 And they were practically brand new.
41:31 So he had those stretched onto the bit of wall above the bookcase and behind the painting
41:36 over the fireplace.
41:39 And then he made this fantastic, bold geometric carpet, this very strong red and then painted
41:46 he had the bookcases grained.
41:50 As I have a feeling maybe the graining was old, but he but he made the inside of them
41:56 scarlet lacquer to sort of really set off the old bindings.
42:00 And the whole effect I mean, I don't know what this is telling us about his use of colour.
42:06 But the ceiling here you can see isn't white at all.
42:08 He's picked it out in all sorts of different shades of beige and then done a scarlet picking
42:13 out of the plasterwork frieze.
42:16 So you know, if you've got elaborate plasterwork, then you're allowed some colour on the ceiling,
42:22 but not if it's plain.
42:23 I don't know if that, I don't know, that hasn't really told us anything about his use of colour
42:29 has it?
42:30 But what he did tend to do was build up, you know, he'd go for sort of saturation of sometimes
42:38 one colour, sometimes building up a whole lot of colour, but what he wouldn't have really
42:44 is, you know, jarring contrasts.
42:48 You know, but what he was very, very keen on was having quite different colour schemes
42:54 in every room of a house.
42:56 And so what he absolutely didn't allow was the sort of client who wants to have you know,
43:00 everything basically a bit beige, a bit white, and the occasional little dash of colour.
43:05 That was absolutely no go.
43:07 You had to have a strong and contrasting colour identity for each room.
43:13 The reason being, of course, I mean, it was partly so that it would be fun to be in the
43:16 house and go from one room to the other, but mainly so that he could get lots of pictures
43:21 of the finished product.
43:23 So he had a good, proper magazine story out of every job and then fill up all of his endless
43:29 books of his work.
43:31 So that was his reasoning.
43:36 I love some of the language that, I don't know if it was you or something that he said,
43:41 but there's a wall in your childhood home, I think that was Coca-Cola brown.
43:49 Does that ring a bell?
43:50 Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
43:51 No, he said the acrobat Coca-Cola colour.
43:56 And that was it.
43:58 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
44:00 It was really, I mean, of course, he liked to think that he'd invented the wheel and
44:06 everything else.
44:07 And so he was convinced by the time he died that Billy Baldwin had never painted a room
44:13 in dark brown, and he hadn't gone himself in 1957 to Cole Porter's new apartment, which
44:22 Billy had just finished painting the library in dark brown.
44:28 And he conveniently forgot that.
44:31 And so he was happy to think that he had invented the dark brown room.
44:36 Yeah, but he did invent calling it Coca-Cola lacquer, that's for sure.
44:42 And then there's a ridiculous story now that he had a row with my mum because he couldn't
44:49 find anything good to drink in the house.
44:51 And all there was was Coca-Cola, which is what she liked drinking.
44:54 And he threw a bottle of it at the wall and saw the colour dripping down the wall, which
44:59 of course couldn't possibly be true.
45:00 But if it was dripping down, it would look like cat piss.
45:03 It wouldn't look like dark brown Coca-Cola, would it?
45:06 But anyway.
45:07 There are many starting points for colour, I guess.
45:12 15th century textiles, Coca-Cola on the wall.
45:17 Well, Francis, I'm going to bring up something that may be controversial for some people,
45:22 maybe not for others.
45:24 We've seen colourful plumbing fixtures kind of make a comeback in the last year.
45:29 Kohler has kind of brought back some of their old shades, these very pastel kind of sinks
45:35 and toilets.
45:36 I was going to say, is that a yay or a nay for you?
45:40 But I think I know the answer.
45:42 How do you feel about them?
45:43 Yeah, I mean, I like any opportunity to be able to have more options.
45:52 I think.
45:53 So, sure, great.
45:54 I mean, it's not going to work anywhere, but I think it's nice to be able to have opportunities
46:00 to pick and choose.
46:01 I actually, when I was thinking about this, this particular countertop has been discontinued
46:06 and this is my public plea to all of the countertop manufacturers out there to bring back some
46:16 more colours.
46:17 I don't want, if I'm going to use a man-made material, I don't need it to look like some
46:21 fake stone.
46:22 I can get a beautiful stone then, but I wouldn't mind being able to have a paint deck of countertop
46:28 material options at my fingertips.
46:31 So that's my.
46:33 All right.
46:34 So I think we do have some manufacturers on the call, so hopefully they're listening.
46:38 That's what I would like.
46:39 And this was a vintage sink actually, which is nice.
46:43 Oh, great.
46:44 I was going to ask, you know, now that these options available new, but is this something
46:49 that you were also sourcing vintage before that?
46:52 But it sounds like, yes, this blue is absolutely amazing.
46:55 Yeah, that one is, that was a vintage find.
46:59 Really nice.
47:02 And is there any other, it sounds like countertops are one, but are there any other areas of
47:07 the home that you feel like are really ripe for an infusion of colour?
47:10 Laundry rooms, mud rooms, anything like that?
47:16 I think for the most part, we have a lot of tools at our disposal to bring different things
47:21 in and it's just about kind of looking around and thinking about what you like and less
47:27 concerned about maybe what is a trend and just going on what feels right.
47:34 Courtney, last question here before we open it up to the audience, but are there three
47:42 colours if you had to pick that you use most in your work?
47:46 And if you have the brand in the shade, I think people on the call would probably love
47:50 to hear that.
47:51 I know we love to get specifics.
47:52 Sure, sure.
47:53 Well, you know, I'm a glutton for punishment, so I tend to like to reinvent the wheel for
47:59 every project.
48:00 So I don't often repeat colours, but there are a few I love.
48:06 This image actually has my personal favourite red, which is bullseye red from Benjamin
48:10 Moore.
48:11 It's that red with a bit of that orangey kind of juicy undertone that I think is quite
48:17 easy to work with.
48:19 Another one that I love is summer blue.
48:21 Actually, that's this one from Benjamin Moore.
48:25 It's probably the happiest colour I've encountered.
48:29 It works.
48:30 We did this in a beach cottage.
48:32 We've used that in the city and it works at both.
48:35 And it just when you're in it, you just want to smile.
48:38 And I really love that.
48:40 And another one that I love, which my current apartment is actually painted, is hyper blue
48:45 by Sherwin-Williams.
48:46 It's a really bold blue.
48:49 We have that one.
48:50 Love this one.
48:51 But yeah, it surprisingly becomes a bit of a neutral as a backdrop for other really bright
48:59 colours.
49:00 And when you're in the space, it's surprisingly calm and livable.
49:06 So I really love that colour as well.
49:09 Great.
49:10 Well, we have some excellent questions here from our listeners.
49:15 So we're going to switch over to those.
49:17 Thanks so much.
49:19 Just in advance to all of you.
49:21 And again, there will be a survey before you close out.
49:24 So just make sure to take a look at that.
49:27 So we'll start off with a question from Lauren Mansfield.
49:32 "Francis, your spaces are truly iconic and delightful.
49:36 How do you use colour and pattern without it looking hodgepodge and too boho?
49:40 Also what are your thoughts about flow or not flow regarding colours throughout a house?"
49:45 That sort of ties in with what we were just talking about with Ashley a moment ago.
49:49 Yeah.
49:50 I mean, I stress out about it, honestly.
49:55 Yeah.
49:58 And I think that's always why I sort of tell people.
50:01 I mean, I think we had a photo earlier of a project of ours that has sort of a yellow
50:06 kitchen and it actually is the same room that has a pink living room and it has this sort
50:11 of like terracotta entry space.
50:14 And we really, we had so many boards and we would put them in order and say like, "Okay,
50:19 this room can be next to this room, but it doesn't really feel good next to this room."
50:25 And actually they work well together if this colour is in the middle.
50:28 And so it's a lot of, I mean, I think when it comes to colour, the best advice I really
50:35 can give is like, it's a lot of trial and error and testing and testing, and then it's
50:40 a leap of faith, right?
50:41 Like if you don't ultimately just try it, that's why we end up with a lot of sort of
50:46 beige or places that look kind of the same.
50:48 So it's a combination of test, test, and then jump off a cliff, I guess.
50:57 We have another question from Cheryl Nickel.
51:00 I have a remodel with textured walls, think popcorn ceiling, and low light.
51:06 What's your advice to make it look modern without sanding down the dry wall?
51:14 If anybody has any ideas.
51:17 No?
51:19 Has anybody ever, have you ever made a popcorn ceiling work for you?
51:28 I'm sure lots of people that are buying these old houses are dealing with this.
51:31 And I know we have articles on how to remove it, but.
51:36 Camouflage.
51:37 You know, get fun with fabric and do some sort of great thing on the ceiling.
51:45 I haven't discovered the way to make popcorn ceilings actually look good.
51:50 Yeah, it's a tough one.
51:53 Ashley, I had a question for you.
51:57 I'm trying to find it here.
52:00 Luckily, I remember it.
52:04 So I'll just ask you.
52:06 Early on, the slide you showed us with the walls that have this sort of leather effect,
52:11 how did you achieve that?
52:13 Well, just paint it.
52:17 It's actually it is glazes of, you know, there's a base green colour and then it's divided
52:23 up into the squares.
52:26 And there's a sort of a glaze on it, tinted glaze, which honestly, if I was going to do
52:33 it today, I probably wouldn't do that.
52:35 But it's a more traditional way to do it.
52:38 And it was painted with my my ex-wife's ex-assistant, who was a sort of a decorative painter who
52:43 worked for Montardino and said it was an oil painting way to do it.
52:48 Yeah.
52:49 But then there was actual stitching.
52:51 I do the same now.
52:53 And, you know, I'd probably, yeah, I'd probably do the same, but just do it with acrylic instead.
53:00 Yeah.
53:01 And then the stitching was actually done with a stencil.
53:06 A cut of stencil to look like big, big sort of leather stitching, you know, on the sort
53:12 of, you know, on a hippie handbag from 1973 or something, if you see what I mean.
53:22 Well, Courtney, maybe you're dealing with this now with your own apartment, but what
53:27 colours and soft goods like bedding and pillows are you excited about right now?
53:31 Yeah, you know, with bedding, I actually that's the one place where I do like to be a little
53:38 bit more neutral.
53:39 You know, I love, you know, a pretty simple bedding with a wonderful little colour piping.
53:46 And then I love to put a bold pillow.
53:49 Like, I love to have a lot of fun with trims and pattern on the pillow and then, you know,
53:55 bring in a little bit of colour on a throw at the end of the bed.
53:59 I think it's kind of fun when you have a more neutral sort of top coat to have something
54:04 unexpected underneath.
54:06 So I have done really fun, like green and blue and those kinds of colours for sheets.
54:13 And so when you, you know, sort of under your bed, you have a little fun surprise.
54:22 One thing we've not really talked about today, wood stain is another question that came in
54:27 from the audience.
54:29 How are you all feeling about kind of dark stains, light stains?
54:33 Do you have strong feelings about what you prefer?
54:36 Or is this kind of, you know, whatever this individual space calls for?
54:47 It's no good just asking everybody.
54:49 You've got to think.
54:50 All right.
54:51 All right.
54:52 None of us know what to say.
54:54 I think, you know, I think I don't know what I think, really.
55:00 I mean, there are good colours and there are bad colours, aren't there?
55:02 If you're talking about a floor, you're talking about a floor.
55:06 Yes.
55:07 I mean, I think very often, you know, you can stain a floor practically black and it
55:12 looks fantastic.
55:14 But proper staining is very important.
55:18 You know, what's terrible is when they put some sort of tinted colour on top and you
55:22 can see the brushstrokes.
55:23 It's just awful.
55:24 It has to get into the wood.
55:26 But obviously, it's quite expensive.
55:27 You've got to sand off the existing the existing finish and do it properly.
55:33 Right.
55:34 Yeah.
55:35 And then my father had a fantastic had a recipe from a painter called John Piper, who once
55:40 upon a time was a famous English painter.
55:42 And he had this recipe that I think John Piper told him was an 18th century recipe for whitening
55:49 wood floors in order to stop them turning yellow.
55:53 And so, you know, they used to do that quite a lot.
55:56 You know, oak floorboards, they would they would put a sort of a white sort of sort of
56:02 a whitewash, sort of grey, greywash, I suppose, really, and then wax them and that would stop
56:09 them turning yellow.
56:11 Have you tried that recipe yourself, Ashley?
56:17 I want to know if he still has the recipe.
56:24 I know I do, too.
56:26 I think he's he's frozen up again.
56:28 Unfortunately, I think.
56:30 Well, one thing I'll say on this subject is that I think people do really sort of when
56:36 you when you're in the midst of a project and you're caught up in it, I think people
56:39 worry too much about having too many different woods.
56:42 And as long as they're they're beautiful, I think it.
56:46 They'll probably work out.
56:47 Yeah.
56:48 Well, I think that's a great note to end on.
56:51 Thanks, everybody, for joining.
56:53 Again, go over to ADPro and we have the Color Trends page up and live and it's just for
56:59 members.
57:00 So please do give that a look.
57:02 Thank you, all three of you, for being here.
57:05 This was really fascinating.
57:06 And Courtney, enjoy the rest of your time in Paris.
57:11 Thank you.
57:13 I thank you.
57:15 And Frances, enjoy Portland.
57:17 Thank you.
57:17 Bye.
57:18 Bye.
57:18 Bye.
57:19 Bye.
57:20 Bye.
57:21 Bye.
57:21 Bye.