Graham and Dave choose their biggest movie villains from
The Joker to Annie Wilson in Misery.
The Joker to Annie Wilson in Misery.
Category
😹
FunTranscript
00:00 (upbeat music)
00:02 - Hello and welcome back to Not Everyone's.
00:08 A film critic, a vodcast or a podcast
00:11 that has been long overdue since we've had one
00:13 because David got COVID, remember?
00:16 - Finally, finally I got COVID.
00:18 I know that's all very, what, 2019 or 2020,
00:22 but anyway, I finally succumbed
00:24 after three years of not getting it.
00:26 And it wasn't very pleasant.
00:27 I would advise people not to get COVID.
00:29 I don't think that's an exclusive,
00:30 but try not to get it.
00:32 - Yeah, if you can avoid it, don't get it.
00:34 And I was in Monaco.
00:35 Ooh, Monaco.
00:36 - Yeah, that's been nice having COVID, isn't it?
00:38 I think you got a better deal there.
00:41 - One of them has lots of sun,
00:42 one of them has lots of darkness.
00:44 But we are back, obviously,
00:45 and the good news is we've seen films.
00:48 We have seen movies,
00:49 which is something that we were sort of struggling
00:51 to do in the last episode, which is not great.
00:54 If you haven't seen the film,
00:56 if this is not a film, this is a series,
00:58 if you haven't seen this series before,
01:00 the broadcast, the podcast,
01:02 we talk about what we've seen over the past week.
01:04 We talk about it, whether it's good, whether it's bad.
01:06 We tell you whether to go see it, whether you don't,
01:07 you ignore us, or you take our advice
01:09 and go see it or don't go see it.
01:11 And then we have a topic of the week.
01:12 If you wanna fast forward the topic of the week,
01:14 which you can do if you want,
01:16 today's topic will be the biggest villains
01:18 that have ever been on screen,
01:20 which has been many of them.
01:22 But Dave, I'll let you start here.
01:25 I've seen three films in the past week.
01:28 How many have you seen and what have you seen?
01:31 - I've seen quite a few before COVID,
01:33 luckily when you were away to France,
01:35 spawning off, leaving me here, getting ill.
01:38 I saw those films before then, so that's good.
01:40 But one I've seen since COVID,
01:43 which I thought, I've been feeling rubbish
01:45 for the past nine days, I'm gonna go to cinema,
01:47 it's gonna take my mind off it.
01:48 I've tested negative now, I can do this responsibly.
01:51 And I went, and there's not much on the cinema right now,
01:53 because of the writer's strike and the actor's strike,
01:55 those things aren't getting released,
01:56 so there's lots of re-releases and stuff like that.
01:58 But I thought the best out of a bad lot
02:00 would be "Blue Beetle," and I can honestly tell you,
02:02 it made me feel worse again.
02:03 It was like, I was wanting to sit in the cinema
02:06 and get my mind taken off.
02:07 And it's just another superhero film.
02:09 We've said this many times,
02:10 you don't do superhero films, Graham.
02:12 I used to think you were completely wrong in that,
02:13 I think you missed out on a lot of stuff.
02:15 But right now, I don't think you're missing out
02:16 on very much.
02:17 This is the latest DC.
02:19 The last few Marvel films have been somewhat underwhelming.
02:22 And this is just a completely ho-hum film.
02:25 It's called "Blue Beetle."
02:27 It's a rubbish name for a superhero.
02:29 The kind of USP for it is that it's a Latino family,
02:34 which is at the heart of the film.
02:36 And that's really nice.
02:37 And actually, the Latino family are great.
02:39 All of the actors are fantastic.
02:41 They all have lovely relationships with each other.
02:43 I believed in the family,
02:45 and I wanted to be with the family more
02:48 without all the superhero nonsense getting in the way.
02:50 The plot bears no scrutiny whatsoever.
02:53 The beetle is another alien artifact,
02:57 which Susan Sarandon's in it, bizarrely.
03:02 And she finds this artifact,
03:03 and she wants to take over the world or something with it.
03:05 We don't really know what she wants with it.
03:07 But anyway, it ends up in the body of this Latino guy
03:11 who turns into the blue beetle,
03:12 'cause this ancient scarab thing goes inside you,
03:15 takes over your body, and gives you superpowers.
03:17 So there's just battling for who has control over the scarab.
03:20 It's quite fun in places.
03:22 The plot is like it's been written by a really stupid robot.
03:25 Like it's got all of the kind of formulaic parts
03:27 of superhero films.
03:28 None of it really works.
03:29 At one point, and this will spoil the film,
03:32 but I don't think you can spoil it because it's rubbish.
03:34 Basically, the superhero dies
03:35 and just comes back for no apparent reason.
03:37 You don't know what the reason is.
03:38 Is it love?
03:39 Is it because he believes?
03:40 I don't know what it is,
03:41 but it makes no sense whatsoever.
03:42 And at that point,
03:43 I was just about getting along with the film,
03:45 and I just thought, "I just can't be bothered."
03:46 'Cause there's no stakes here.
03:48 If he dies, he comes back.
03:49 It's just rubbish.
03:50 So don't go and see "Blue Beetle"
03:51 unless you're a really, really big comic book fan.
03:54 Maybe the comic books are good.
03:55 I don't know.
03:56 But I wouldn't bother going to see it
03:58 if you're just a casual superhero film fan.
04:00 Two great films,
04:01 which I'll cover very quickly before you come on to yours,
04:03 were both at the Edinburgh Film Festival.
04:05 There's lots of really good films at the Edinburgh Film Festival.
04:07 Sadly, these two do not have a release date yet.
04:10 Now, I don't know if that's 'cause of the strike
04:11 or whether they've not got any distribution deal yet,
04:14 but they're both well worth looking out for.
04:16 The first one's called "Raging Grace,"
04:18 which stars David Heyman, a brilliant Scottish actor.
04:22 And it's a really good elevated horror film.
04:25 You'll really enjoy it, Graham.
04:26 It's about a Filipino maid who gets a job
04:29 working at a big, spooky, scary house in England.
04:32 Basically, a dream job for her.
04:33 She doesn't have any documentation.
04:35 She's trying to earn money
04:36 to get documentation on the black market
04:38 so she can stay in Britain,
04:39 providing a better future for her daughter.
04:41 She gets this job,
04:42 which is essentially looking after a comatose,
04:45 terminally ill old man, who's played by David Heyman.
04:49 And it's a dream job.
04:50 She doesn't have to do very much.
04:51 He's comatose, you know?
04:52 And she's just got to keep the place,
04:54 pick and span, you know, dust places, stuff like that.
04:56 But then stuff happens,
04:57 and you begin to doubt who's who,
04:59 whether people are good or bad.
05:01 And it's brilliantly twisty.
05:03 David Heyman puts in a fantastic performance.
05:05 He's got to do quite a clever thing within the film,
05:06 which I won't say anything about
05:08 'cause I wouldn't want to spoil this film
05:09 because it could be spoiled 'cause it's a good film.
05:11 And it's really quite scary.
05:13 It's making lots of good points about race and class.
05:17 And I just find it brilliantly satisfying.
05:19 It's one of these films you can see being a big hit
05:21 just as long as somebody took a chance on it.
05:23 So fingers crossed that'll get a release later in the year.
05:25 And again, a similar kind of film,
05:28 because again, it's a kind of horror film
05:29 looking at class and race.
05:32 It's called "Property," and it's a Brazilian film,
05:34 another film I think you'll enjoy, Graham.
05:36 It's a home invasion film with a twist
05:40 in that you kind of feel slightly sympathetic
05:43 for the people doing the invading
05:45 rather than the people who are being the victims.
05:48 So it's about a very well-off woman
05:50 who flees to her family farm in Brazil.
05:55 She's got this sprawling estate there.
05:57 She's got a beautiful house as well.
05:59 And she goes there and she finds that her husband
06:01 has essentially tried to sell it for a hotel.
06:06 And all of the staff are basically rebelling
06:07 and they're looting the place.
06:08 She arrives there and she takes to her armor-plated car
06:13 and they basically attack her.
06:15 And they try to get in the car,
06:16 they can't get into the car.
06:17 And you think, "Oh, this is absolutely horrible,
06:18 "this poor woman."
06:20 But then it switches and you see
06:22 why they're doing these things to workers.
06:24 And you go, "Hold on a minute, am I on their side?"
06:26 So it's very twisty again.
06:28 And it doesn't really tell you how to feel about it.
06:32 It just shows you there's two sides to it, basically.
06:34 So highly recommend that as well.
06:36 So two great films about class and about race,
06:40 neither of whom have got a distribution date
06:42 while "Blue Beetle" is on hundreds of screens
06:45 across the UK.
06:46 Again, the film industry is very unfair
06:48 'cause the best doesn't necessarily rise to the top.
06:51 - Say "The Cream" rises to the top,
06:54 but it doesn't always, does it?
06:55 I looked at the box office, biggest-
06:57 - Something else rises to the top
06:59 that we can't mention in this podcast,
07:02 but it ain't "Cream."
07:04 - Poo-poo.
07:06 - Can we say poo-poo?
07:07 Can we say poo-poo?
07:09 (laughing)
07:11 - As we would say in Sunderland, caca.
07:14 - Caca, we can definitely say that too.
07:16 - We can say caca.
07:17 We're a family-friendly show.
07:19 A PG at the best.
07:21 I've seen quite a bit.
07:22 There's a film that we've both seen
07:23 and I think we both really enjoyed,
07:25 but we'll come onto that 'cause it kind of works
07:27 for what we're gonna talk about later with villains.
07:31 But I think the first film I wanna speak about,
07:35 which is the first one I seen sort of earlier last week,
07:37 was "The Blackening."
07:39 I've gotta be honest and say,
07:40 I was really, really excited for the film.
07:41 I think if anyone hasn't heard of what the film is
07:45 or know what it's about,
07:46 basically it's kind of like a cross between "Get Out"
07:50 in terms of its meaning, I think.
07:53 It's got a lot of underlying things that come with racism
07:56 and sort of social class as well, to be honest.
07:59 And then on top of that as well,
08:01 it does have an element of scary movie
08:03 where it's a bit slapstick.
08:05 But the trailer looked really good.
08:06 I think there's a set of friends
08:11 and some couples all go to meet up after,
08:16 I think it's at the school year meet up,
08:17 but they've remained friends for quite a while.
08:19 And some people end up going
08:22 that have not been seen since school years
08:24 and had invites and stuff.
08:25 But they all go to this cabin in the woods,
08:26 which, I mean, if you haven't seen a horror film
08:29 in your life, that would seem like a reasonably good idea
08:31 if you haven't.
08:33 And obviously it goes by the horror trope
08:35 that is kind of set in screen that in horror films,
08:39 historically, someone who was black would always die first,
08:42 which is actually not that true,
08:43 but nonetheless it became like a horror trope.
08:45 And the tagline for the film was, "We can't all die first,"
08:48 which was relatively weighty, to be honest.
08:50 But they all go to this cabin in the woods
08:53 and then suddenly they realize one of them gets knocked down
08:55 by an arrow by a guy in like a gimp mask
08:58 that is quite evidently white.
09:00 On the way to this cabin in the woods,
09:01 you meet a lot of white people from what look like rednecks
09:05 that may or may not, and probably are a little bit racist,
09:09 but you don't know if that's the killer or not.
09:10 And it kind of is a bit like more of a whodunit in many ways
09:13 with mixtures of good social commentary and things like that.
09:17 But I was a bit disappointed by it, if I'm honest.
09:20 And I felt like the jokes weren't that funny.
09:23 Like it took a little bit of a while to get to the point.
09:26 I don't think it taught me anything
09:28 that I wouldn't have known previously about the world,
09:31 so to speak.
09:32 And I think even though I've already said
09:34 it was like the message of "Get Out,"
09:36 it didn't have any kind of, it didn't have anywhere near
09:40 the same level of delivery and impact as "Get Out" did.
09:43 It kind of was just a case of,
09:45 it did label an awful lot on,
09:47 oh, well, previously in horror films,
09:50 black people have died first, who's gonna die first?
09:52 Oh, white, this white person is chasing us
09:55 and there's a problem with racism.
09:57 I think, unfortunately, we sort of know that
09:59 and it didn't tell me anything that I didn't necessarily know.
10:02 There's some bits in that are really, really, really funny,
10:05 but I found the characters from the ones
10:08 that wouldn't be good to the ones that were meant to be bad,
10:10 to the ones that had crossbows,
10:12 narrows, none of them particularly.
10:15 I wouldn't say ones I didn't care about,
10:16 but I didn't connect with them very well.
10:18 I was a bit lost with it.
10:19 Like they all had backstories to an extent,
10:21 but I didn't really buy into it.
10:24 And I think, I don't know if the film was a disappointment
10:27 because I expected a lot more from it
10:29 or because it's genuinely just a straightforward movie,
10:32 but all in all, I give it a five out of 10.
10:35 And I think that's 'cause the end was a little bit funnier
10:39 than I anticipated, but by the time it got to the end,
10:42 I was a little bit bored and I've gotta be honest,
10:45 I looked at my phone once to see what time it was
10:47 to see how far away we were.
10:48 So I didn't really massively enjoy it,
10:50 but I can understand a lot of people would go and see it
10:52 and really enjoy it.
10:53 Like, don't take my advice on that 100%.
10:56 You might be like me and go and not find it that great.
10:58 You might go and you might find it hilarious
11:00 and really, really good and really, really relatable.
11:02 I think it's gonna be one of those films
11:03 that either think it's really good and it's a solid seven,
11:06 or you think it's a bit boring
11:07 and it's a four or five like I did.
11:09 The other film that I saw was not the second film
11:14 that I've seen, but I went to eventually see "Strays".
11:19 - Was it rubbish?
11:20 I bet it was rubbish.
11:21 - I mean, look, Jamie Foxx and Will Ferrell
11:28 voicing the characters.
11:29 So very, very big names, you know,
11:31 not relatively big, very big.
11:34 And for those of you who don't know what "Strays" is,
11:36 which you probably should have done
11:38 if you're watching the show
11:38 and you've been at the cinema
11:39 because it felt like the trailer was on consistently
11:41 for a while.
11:42 - Oh, they told me that.
11:44 - But it centers on a dog who is called,
11:46 well, it tells you everything,
11:48 but in fact, I can't remember his name, Reggie.
11:51 He's called Reggie.
11:53 And Reggie loves his owner like a dog should do.
11:55 A dog's owner thinks it's the best thing on the planet,
11:57 but the owner's just a bit of a,
12:00 can I say a-hole?
12:01 - Yeah, why not?
12:03 - I'm just gonna say a-hole.
12:04 And this is definitely a PG version of the show this week,
12:07 maybe a 12.
12:08 Implied strong language, as the BBFC would say.
12:12 I think he loves this owner called Doug,
12:17 but it turns out that the dog actually,
12:21 bizarrely, as dogs sometimes do,
12:25 run through into sitting rooms with items of clothing,
12:27 and he run through with a pair of knickers,
12:29 which were not his girlfriend's.
12:30 He loses his girlfriend, so this guy hates this dog,
12:34 and tries to throw the ball, take him outside,
12:36 throw the ball, play fetch,
12:37 but take him so far out of his home,
12:39 he hopes he get lost, and he keep finding his way back,
12:42 and the dog thinks it's a game,
12:43 where he's taking him as far away as he can
12:44 and really testing him.
12:45 And he's like, "Oh, such a great owner,"
12:47 because every time I come back, he's like, "Oh."
12:50 And he says a swear word, and he goes,
12:51 "That's how I know I've won the game."
12:53 Obviously, as a human, we know that
12:55 he's trying to get rid of the dog.
12:56 Anyway, he takes him three hours outside, drops him off.
13:00 When he drops him off three hours outside of this place,
13:03 he struggles to get back, and he meets other dogs
13:05 who inform him that he's basically been made a stray.
13:09 And then the entire film is about him coming back
13:11 and wanting to bite the genitalia of his previous owner
13:16 to prove to him that he was a bad owner.
13:20 So the premise is actually really good.
13:22 - All that is in the trailer.
13:24 All that is in the trailer.
13:25 - All of it.
13:26 And my concern was the story was gonna be in the trailer,
13:30 and you're gonna know what the film was.
13:32 Now, yes, that's what happens, and that's in the trailer.
13:37 However, the bits that you don't see,
13:41 and I've gotta be honest here,
13:43 I'm not someone who would get shocked by anything on cinema.
13:46 I'm really not.
13:47 Like, I don't believe in things being banned.
13:50 I don't believe in things being not spoke about.
13:51 It's cinema, it's movies.
13:52 If you don't like it, don't watch it.
13:53 That's how I've always felt.
13:55 Doesn't mean I'm right, doesn't mean I'm wrong.
13:56 That's just how I felt.
13:58 But it was just so, like,
14:00 and I feel bad even saying the word
14:02 'cause it's just not like me, but uncouth, unnecessarily.
14:05 - It was just gross out for the sake of it.
14:07 No heart to just look what we can do.
14:10 That's exactly what I thought it was gonna be like,
14:11 just doing it for the sake of it,
14:12 which is a bit like Ted as well.
14:14 I kind of thought that about Ted.
14:15 I thought it was an interesting premise.
14:16 You just go, and there's no, yeah, you're right.
14:19 You feel a bit old, don't you, say?
14:20 You kind of feel like you want to say this and that.
14:23 That just isn't big and it isn't clever.
14:24 It's just stupidity for the sake of it.
14:26 I totally, totally understand what you mean.
14:28 It isn't like you wanted a band or anything.
14:29 You just don't particularly want to see yourself
14:31 'cause it's not that fun or really entertaining.
14:34 - The end of the movie,
14:35 which, look, spoiler alert,
14:39 so you're gonna have five seconds to turn off.
14:40 One, two, three, four, five.
14:42 When the dog eventually does ravage the man's genitalia,
14:47 it's quite funny because when he does it,
14:50 the dogs are holding him down
14:53 and the music overplayed while the dog's running
14:56 at his genitalia in slow motion is Miley Cyrus's
15:00 "I Came In Like a Wrecking Ball."
15:02 And it's just very, very funny.
15:05 I did laugh and I did kind of go,
15:06 "Hey, you've got his come up in," sort of thing.
15:09 But the run up to it,
15:12 there's a scene when they're in a jail
15:14 and I can't even say what happens
15:15 'cause it is quite bad,
15:18 but they're in a jail and they're trying to get the keys
15:22 to let all these bad dogs out that are stuck in jail.
15:25 And they're trying to use a part of the dog
15:29 that might belong to get the keys.
15:32 And I was like, "That's bordering on really,
15:34 really, really weird."
15:36 - Bordering?
15:37 (laughs)
15:38 - It was really weird.
15:39 It was just odd and it wasn't funny.
15:42 And I felt like, "Am I the only one not laughing at this?"
15:45 But I looked around the cinema,
15:46 which at the time when we booked it,
15:47 we were the only ones going to see it.
15:49 And I thought, "Oh, well."
15:49 But it actually ended up being
15:51 a nearly full sold out screen at the time.
15:53 And the jokes weren't really landing for people.
15:59 Like it just, it felt like they'd gone,
16:01 "We'll get Jamie Foxx, we'll get Will Ferrell.
16:02 This'll be funny.
16:03 The dog will bite his genitalia off and that'll be it.
16:08 And everyone will love the dogs and it's great."
16:10 And I think the point that we're trying to make
16:12 is that all dogs need is a little bit of love
16:14 and you can survive on your own.
16:15 And you can survive with the love of your friends.
16:19 But it just didn't come across like that.
16:21 It came across as like, "How vulgar can we make these dogs?"
16:23 And there's a bit where the dogs will pee on each other
16:26 because they own each other, because they're all friends.
16:28 So they think they'll pee on each other.
16:30 I get the point, dogs pee on things
16:32 to have ownership of things.
16:35 But like the dogs wouldn't wee on each other
16:37 to own each other.
16:38 They would just sniff each other's butts.
16:40 That's what dogs do.
16:41 And it just felt a bit like,
16:43 it's from the producers of "Ted."
16:45 I'm sorry if I'm wrong with that.
16:47 But if you've seen "Ted" and you're disappointed by "Ted,"
16:49 you're gonna get this, but a little bit more.
16:52 It wasn't great.
16:53 But there's a film we both saw that we did quite like.
16:56 I'll let you start.
16:57 I thought it was a solid film.
16:58 You thought it was great.
16:59 So I'll let you start.
17:00 - Yeah, it's in my top five of the year, I'd say.
17:02 It's called "Passages."
17:03 And it's by director Ira Saxe,
17:06 who's actually there to present the film
17:08 at the Edinburgh Film Festival,
17:09 which is where I saw it as well.
17:11 And it's just, I mean, it's a pretty simple plot.
17:13 It's about a love triangle.
17:14 It's about this flamboyant,
17:17 but massively, massively horrific German film director,
17:22 played by the fantastic Franz Rogowski,
17:24 who I always go and see in anything.
17:25 He's a very unusual looking man,
17:27 and he sounds very unusual.
17:28 He's got kind of a lisp, and he looks odd,
17:31 but he's massively charismatic as an actor.
17:33 You see him on screen,
17:34 and you just want to see him more and more and more.
17:36 And he's married to a character played by Ben Whishaw,
17:39 who's a very gentle guy, basically,
17:41 and they're married,
17:42 but during the rat party for his latest,
17:45 no doubt, horrible film.
17:47 - Don't mean to interrupt,
17:48 but did you find that Ben Whishaw
17:50 did an awful lot in the film of,
17:52 oh, blimmin' heck, Thomas.
17:56 - Oh, dear.
17:57 Oh, dear.
17:58 That's, I feel quite put out by this.
18:02 - Thomas, you are a film director,
18:03 and you've gone and cheated on me again.
18:05 You always forget that you're married
18:07 when you're being creative.
18:08 Now, it's a bit like,
18:09 being married in Ben Whishaw,
18:11 be a bit angry.
18:13 - Because at that point,
18:13 even though it isn't explicitly said,
18:15 I mean, I think it's pretty clear
18:16 that he's been cheating on him with other men
18:18 for a number of years,
18:19 but what's different this time
18:20 is that he cheats on him with a woman
18:22 played by Adele Exarchopoulos.
18:25 I'm going to give that a shot.
18:27 I think it's Exarchopoulos,
18:28 who is a wonderful actress
18:30 who was in "Blue is the Warmest Colour,"
18:32 and is genuinely a sensuous, sensuous actress,
18:35 and she's absolutely wonderful.
18:37 And so they get involved in this love triangle.
18:39 He comes home one morning and says,
18:41 "Listen, I've just been to bed with a woman,"
18:43 and he's excited, he's giddy about it.
18:45 And he almost doesn't understand
18:46 why his husband isn't excited
18:48 in the same way that he is,
18:49 because he's so utterly caught up with himself.
18:51 He's such a monster.
18:53 - This was so exciting.
18:54 I loved it.
18:55 - Yeah, exactly.
18:55 (laughing)
18:56 - You just cheated on him.
18:57 You just spent the night with a woman.
18:59 - Why can't you be happy for me, Paddington?
19:01 Why?
19:02 And poor Paddington's there going,
19:03 "Oh no, cripes, blame me."
19:06 So anyway, they kind of try various things,
19:08 because both of his lovers kind of want
19:11 to bend over backwards to please him,
19:13 because he is charismatic,
19:14 and they both kind of love him,
19:15 although they're both more obsessed with him.
19:17 And so how much lovelier is there
19:19 between any of the characters,
19:21 and how much of it is obsession is a moot point.
19:24 But there's just this tremendously complicated dynamic
19:26 between the three of them.
19:28 I hate to use the term,
19:29 but it is a grown-up film,
19:30 in that it is a film about human emotions and relationships,
19:33 which is not particularly easy to watch.
19:35 There isn't a huge amount of plot,
19:37 but I just find the whole thing,
19:38 the shifting sands of the relationships fascinating.
19:42 And the fact that Franz Patoussi's character,
19:45 he's just horrible.
19:47 He's a narcissist in the worst possible way.
19:49 He doesn't care about anyone else.
19:51 There's a brilliant scene
19:52 with her parents coming to meet him,
19:54 because it ends up that he decides he wants to marry her,
19:57 and they're going to have a kid together.
19:59 And so they come and meet him,
20:00 and he's been out all night, and he rolls in,
20:02 and there's just this magnificent scene
20:04 where the mother in any other film would be a snob,
20:07 and she would be unsympathetic.
20:08 And you're just going to, yes, yes, ask him,
20:10 why on earth he suddenly isn't gay anymore?
20:12 Does he really love her daughter?
20:14 Is he really capable of looking after a child?
20:16 'Cause he clearly isn't.
20:17 He isn't capable of looking after a child.
20:19 He's only capable of looking after himself,
20:20 nevermind the child.
20:22 So it's one of these films
20:22 that you do kind of grit your teeth in,
20:24 but you shouldn't go into it with that toothache,
20:26 'cause you do grind your teeth,
20:27 'cause he's such a horrific character.
20:29 But I just absolutely loved it.
20:30 I'm looking forward to seeing it again,
20:31 because I didn't quite get how much of a monster he was
20:34 until halfway through.
20:35 And it was only halfway through that I realized
20:37 that I was allowed to hate him,
20:38 and actually the director wanted me to hate him,
20:40 'cause he does seem like a kind of heroic figure,
20:42 'cause he's so free,
20:43 and he's kind of what a lot of us want to be
20:45 if we weren't responsible,
20:47 and buttoned up and everything else.
20:48 But I couldn't do any of those things.
20:49 And for some of the film, you're kind of envious of him,
20:51 going, why can't I be like that?
20:53 But by the end of the film,
20:54 and it isn't a spoiler to say that he doesn't come out up
20:57 in any way, shape, or form,
20:58 particularly after a particularly great scene
21:00 in a school corridor,
21:02 which is just amazing comeuppance he gets.
21:05 And by the end, you just realize,
21:06 but you don't want to be like that.
21:07 You've got to have some responsibility in life.
21:09 You have to think about others, little people.
21:10 You can't just please yourself all the time,
21:13 because otherwise you will come to a sticky end,
21:15 and at least he did come to a sticky end.
21:16 So I actually loved it.
21:17 For me, it was probably a 10 out of 10 film
21:19 that's gonna be in my top five of the year.
21:21 - Reminded me of me a lot.
21:22 (laughing)
21:24 Very stylish.
21:25 All the girls wanted him, all the men wanted him.
21:27 They wanted to be him at the same time.
21:29 - I think that I really kind of identified more
21:35 with Ben Whishaw's character,
21:36 just a little bit sad and awkward.
21:39 - Great, not again.
21:40 I know you're wearing some nice knitwear,
21:43 but bloody heck, Graham,
21:44 that's not gonna get around me this time, I tell you.
21:46 I'm gonna go on my bike anyway
21:48 and just go down the street to Paris,
21:49 because I'm a film director
21:51 that can't apparently afford a car or a decent coat.
21:53 That's not from a vintage clothing shop, but that's fine.
21:57 - I found like, I know what you mean by him.
22:01 He was kind of like an attractive character
22:03 by the sense that he was so footloose and fancy free.
22:05 And he was almost like what we were when we were teenagers,
22:07 which is what we all were.
22:08 We were all wrecks of people
22:10 that really cared about ourselves,
22:12 home ones all over the shop.
22:12 But then you were like, "Hang on, he's in his 30s, I think."
22:15 - Exactly, it's pretty sad, really.
22:16 It's pretty sad.
22:17 - He's married.
22:18 Is he wearing a tank top again?
22:21 There were certain elements where you were like,
22:24 but his range of knitwear, I think, to be honest,
22:27 fair play to him.
22:28 You know what?
22:28 You can pull off that kind of knitwear, do what you want.
22:31 No, but the film on a serious note,
22:33 he is like a monster that you kind of don't realize
22:36 he is until, I think, spoiler alert,
22:39 you've got the five second warning,
22:41 five, four, three, two, one,
22:43 when he makes Agathe pregnant.
22:46 And then Ben Whishaw goes, "Oh, will you try?"
22:48 And then he went, "Well, I knew there was a chance."
22:51 - Yeah.
22:52 - Which is indicative of like,
22:53 he was having unprotected sex
22:55 and he didn't really give two hoots about that.
22:57 And then the fact that there's an inclination
23:01 that he is only having a baby with her,
23:04 so him and Ben Whishaw can pinch the baby,
23:06 which is a bit-
23:07 - I would certainly suggest it, yeah.
23:09 - I mean, it's very heavily indicated in many ways.
23:13 And then there's a lot made about the sex scene
23:16 that's a really steamy movie.
23:17 Like if you're watching this,
23:18 thinking it's all about human emotions,
23:19 it's not, it's really steamy.
23:21 And there's particularly a sex scene
23:22 which people have made a lot of hassle about
23:24 between Ben Whishaw and the actor,
23:28 the main actor who plays Thomas,
23:30 which I've got to be honest and thought was a bit,
23:33 I mean, apparently that's what made the film in '18.
23:36 I don't think it's an '18 film.
23:37 - Yeah, there's a bit of drug use in it though, I think.
23:41 So there's a bit of drug use in there as well, I think.
23:43 But yeah, I mean, I don't think it's,
23:46 it seems ridiculous for a film to be made in '18 certificate
23:49 just 'cause of sex scenes, no matter what they really are.
23:51 I mean, there's nothing there
23:52 which I think is particularly shocking.
23:55 I think it is steamy, I mean, it is.
23:56 It's like a very kind of erotic film
23:58 in the sort of best artistic sense of the words.
24:03 I mean, you really feel the passions
24:04 between the three main players.
24:06 And there's a lot of electricity going on there at all times
24:09 between all three of them actually,
24:10 'cause they're all kinds of attracted to each other.
24:12 So it is, it is erotic.
24:14 And I think you need those sex scenes there
24:16 because again, like it is a grown up movie
24:17 and that's what it's about, you know?
24:18 So you have to show it.
24:20 - There's also the random guy who Ben Whishaw starts dating
24:25 who for some reason, for like half a second,
24:28 the film shows his genitals for literally half a second.
24:32 And then the rest of the movie,
24:34 this guy walks around in just a towel.
24:37 - It's an unskilled-- - No matter where we see him,
24:38 he's wearing a towel.
24:40 And he has a body like a garden and a don.
24:42 - Oh, he's a beautiful man, yeah, absolutely, yeah.
24:44 - What a wonderful, wonderful looking man.
24:46 But he just wears a towel all of the time.
24:48 - He does, he does.
24:49 He's a wee bit light, isn't he?
24:50 - Well, it got to a point where I thought
24:51 he was wearing a tunic.
24:52 So I was like, "You're never gonna not wear this towel."
24:56 And then eventually he changes into normal clothes
24:59 and not a towel when Ben Whishaw's like,
25:04 "No, I wanna go back with Thomas, I've had enough."
25:06 And he goes, "Oh, right, well, I'm gonna put a waistcoat
25:09 "on then and a pair of hot pants."
25:11 And you're like--
25:12 - That'll sue you.
25:13 - Why are you doing this?
25:16 And then the end bit when he's like,
25:17 when Ben Whishaw goes back to that guy,
25:19 or the inclination is he wants to go back to him,
25:22 and he's like, "He's nice, he's gentle."
25:25 My head was just going,
25:26 "But he doesn't dress as well as Thomas, to be fair."
25:29 - He does.
25:30 - He doesn't really wear anything
25:31 apart from Dr. Martin's hot pants and towels.
25:34 And Ben Whishaw's partner in the movie, Thomas,
25:39 the main character, the hateful one,
25:40 the bad one, the bad guy,
25:42 he wears really good knitwear.
25:44 - It's got extensive wardrobe, yeah.
25:47 - Look, he's stylish in this movie.
25:49 And I feel when you have that level of style,
25:52 the film is proof that you can do whatever you want
25:54 and people will still think you're all right.
25:56 So now we know how Gucci have got people
26:00 through the hardest moments in life.
26:02 Anyway, the reason we wanted to discuss that film
26:06 at the end was because he's a big nasty man
26:09 with good knitwear, and that should not cover him up.
26:11 Much like Freddy Krueger, wearing a good jumper
26:13 doesn't make you a good person.
26:16 And much like Dave.
26:17 So we wanted to pick our favorite three villains.
26:20 And we've only got 10 minutes here
26:22 'cause we've banged on about film and television.
26:24 And Ben Whishaw going, "Ah, Thomas."
26:26 (laughing)
26:27 I've had enough of this, Thomas.
26:29 But I will start.
26:30 I think we're gonna pick our top three
26:32 for film villains from three to one.
26:34 And my first is kind of,
26:37 they're all from films I've mentioned before in this series,
26:39 but nonetheless, maybe not to this extent.
26:41 My number three is a pretty obvious one
26:43 and it extends across a few different actors.
26:45 I think the Joker is the best.
26:48 One of the best, sorry, third best
26:51 in this particular list of movie villains.
26:55 I think whether you look at Joaquin,
26:56 who is just like, you've probably shot Robert De Niro
26:59 in the face, that's a pretty, pretty bad move.
27:03 Jack Nicholson is very much the cartoony character,
27:06 but still very, very good.
27:08 People dressed like Jack Nicholson for years.
27:10 And then Heath Ledger, who's kind of almost like
27:12 the terrorist version of the Joker,
27:16 which he came out, or the more up-to-date version of,
27:19 in the way that he could ruin things.
27:21 I don't need to go too in-depth
27:22 about why the Joker's on the top list of villains,
27:24 but played by three different characters,
27:26 all brought their own thing to it,
27:28 all being brilliant because the character is such a villain.
27:30 He's so well-rounded and there's so many elements to him.
27:33 He's gotta be in the list.
27:34 - I'm really boring with my list.
27:36 I was thinking about doing all sorts
27:38 of very interesting choices,
27:39 but I think this classic, proper classic,
27:42 that's interesting 'cause I was drawing a bit
27:43 of a distinction between, kind of, I don't know,
27:45 super villains and monsters and kind of bad guys,
27:50 if you know what I mean.
27:50 And I think there's a distinction there,
27:52 but it's all a bit of a gray area.
27:53 But anyway, my first choice is Hans Gruber,
27:57 out of "Die Hard."
27:58 I don't think I need to back that up with very much.
28:01 Alan Rickman, a massively talented actor.
28:04 It's probably his best role.
28:05 And I don't think he'd be very happy at me saying that,
28:08 because I think that he did a lot of other great stuff,
28:10 but my goodness, he's good in it.
28:12 He's thoroughly horrible in every way.
28:14 He's got all the best lines.
28:15 And it's just a great film, "Die Hard," isn't it?
28:18 And it was never as good again without Alan Rickman in it.
28:23 And yeah, just watch it again and just see
28:25 how that kind of English baddie,
28:27 it's that English baddie kind of origin, isn't it?
28:29 He was one of the original great English baddies,
28:31 and then all of the Hollywood directors
28:33 wanted English people to play baddies.
28:35 And I think that his is just the absolute key role for that.
28:38 So yeah, "Hans Gruber in 'Die Hard'" is my first one.
28:41 - There's a lot like that where English baddies are like,
28:44 "Oh, I'm a bad lad.
28:46 Oh, I'm a bad little fella."
28:49 And it's like, you don't speak like that, actually.
28:51 I think you've got like a Geordie one.
28:53 "Oh, yeah, I tell you what.
28:55 Oh, you're a bad lad.
28:57 Oh, I tell you what, son, I'm gonna knock you out."
29:00 I am.
29:01 "Oh, I've got loads of bombs in that."
29:03 Doesn't quite work when you change it
29:05 with like a Northern accent.
29:06 But my second is someone who I don't think anyone's
29:10 gonna be that surprised that I've mentioned them
29:13 because of my love for the film.
29:15 I got asked to write a piece
29:16 about something I was really passionate about.
29:18 And I spoke about this film
29:19 because for me it was completely life-changing.
29:21 But I think as a villain, he's really good.
29:25 And like, I was obsessed with the character for ages,
29:28 and then still probably am,
29:29 but like, he was just an awful person.
29:33 And although he was completely unrealistic
29:35 and it would never happen, the stuff that he does
29:37 in the film, you can understand like the narcissistic traits
29:39 and where they come from.
29:41 Jeremiah Sand in "Mandy."
29:43 - Yes.
29:44 - Just bad.
29:46 Like, I mean, he literally kidnaps people,
29:49 drugs them with flies that are full of LSD,
29:52 or bees, or wasps, or whatever it is.
29:54 Basically does what he wants,
29:58 manipulates different people,
30:02 thinks he's like Charles Manson.
30:05 Pretty bad guy.
30:06 And then as we all know,
30:09 if you've seen the movie, at the end of the movie,
30:11 he wilts and becomes pathetic, really,
30:15 because he loses his power.
30:17 But I love "Mandy."
30:19 It's probably my favorite film,
30:21 at least level with "Amelie."
30:22 And I think him as head of "Children of the New Dawn,"
30:26 as they're called in "Mandy,"
30:27 is just a really grim character
30:30 that's massively, massively interesting at the same time,
30:34 and played brilliantly as well.
30:36 Fantastic role, because he,
30:39 I forget the actor's name now.
30:40 Oh my God, what is his name?
30:45 That's gonna annoy me.
30:47 I will find out.
30:48 I have the medium of Google,
30:49 which the name will come to me.
30:52 It is played by, oh my God, this is gonna drive me nuts.
30:57 - Watching a man Google on video.
31:00 It's entertaining.
31:01 - Literally what I'm doing.
31:03 - But here's the thing.
31:04 I've just typed in Jeremiah Sand, Linus Roach, of course,
31:07 but he's described as the main antagonist
31:10 of the film "Mandy,"
31:11 leader of a religious cult,
31:13 the children of the New Dawn,
31:14 and he's a grotesque hybrid of Charles Manson
31:17 and Bodhi from "Point Break."
31:18 - Thanks for that.
31:21 - There we go, summed it up.
31:22 That's why he's in my list.
31:24 There we go.
31:25 - Well, my second is probably the most boring choice
31:26 I've made in any of these things,
31:28 but it's gotta be Darth Vader.
31:29 I mean, it's always got to be Darth Vader.
31:31 I grew up with "Star Wars" films.
31:33 Less said about the other ones, the better,
31:34 but the first three, and to a certain extent,
31:36 the last three have been pretty good.
31:38 And yeah, one of my first visits to the cinema
31:40 was for "Return of the Jedi,"
31:42 and then I went back to watch "Empire" and "A New Hope."
31:45 I mean, Darth Vader is just the perfect,
31:46 I mean, Shakespearean villain.
31:48 I mean, all of the backstory,
31:50 and everyone knows it.
31:51 It isn't a spoiler to say whose father he is.
31:54 But yeah, he's just a properly horrible, horrible baddie.
31:59 Who's got- - Whose father is he?
32:01 - Han Solo's, did you not hear?
32:02 - Oh, God, no.
32:04 Nothing else?
32:05 - Nothing else.
32:06 Spoilers.
32:06 So yeah, he's just a great villain.
32:10 Like, early on in the first film,
32:12 he basically crushes someone's throat
32:14 using his psychic power,
32:15 and just the whole deep breathing thing.
32:17 The fact that the guy who's inside the costume
32:20 is the Green Cross code man,
32:21 who actually visited my school when I was wee,
32:24 and he handed out cards to himself,
32:26 one side the Green Cross code man,
32:27 and the other side Darth Vader.
32:29 But he wasn't allowed to voice Darth Vader,
32:31 'cause he had a Yorkshire accent.
32:32 I think it was a Yorkshire accent.
32:33 So that wasn't evil enough,
32:34 so they got James Earl Jones to do it,
32:36 and the rest is history.
32:37 And what a voice, what a freeze,
32:40 what a great outfit,
32:41 and proper darkness scares generations of kids.
32:44 So Darth Vader is my very tedious second choice.
32:48 - Good choice, to be fair.
32:50 Like, it's hard to kind of say that that's not a good choice,
32:53 let's be honest.
32:55 My number one,
32:58 took a bit of time to think about it,
33:00 and I thought, like,
33:01 what's a person that is like so, so bad,
33:04 in every way, shape, size, or form,
33:05 where you should detest everything about them.
33:08 You do, kind of,
33:09 but the character,
33:10 you could just watch again, and again, and again, and again.
33:13 And Jeremiah Sanders around there,
33:15 but that's 'cause I love the film so much,
33:16 so I try and think of something
33:17 that's more all-rounded by a film
33:19 that a lot of people have seen,
33:20 that would probably agree that the character's amazing,
33:22 it's played fantastically well,
33:24 he's amazing to watch,
33:25 he's funny, he's gruesome, he's grotesque,
33:28 he's awful, he's hateful,
33:30 but you still, kind of, want to watch him.
33:33 And I thought, well, what's worse than,
33:35 as he is known as the Hans Lander from "Glorious",
33:40 I won't swear to PG show.
33:44 - I think we're agreeing on this one,
33:46 I think this is one we're going to agree on wholeheartedly.
33:49 - He is just really good.
33:51 I mean, essentially, right,
33:52 I'm not going to go too deep into it,
33:53 but the guy's a Nazi,
33:54 so you should hate him from the beginning.
33:57 He literally murders an entire Jewish family
33:59 in the opening 25 excruciatingly amazing minutes,
34:02 and you end up kind of really liking,
34:04 not liking the character,
34:06 but finding the character very watchable,
34:08 and that he's very charismatic,
34:09 and he's very like,
34:10 he's like cinema history in many ways, isn't he?
34:15 He's become one of those characters that's massively,
34:17 I mean, my cat is not agreeing in any way, shape,
34:19 or the form, if you can hear him.
34:21 Excuse me, not a fan.
34:24 And, but I just thought as a character,
34:27 like he's so difficult in so many different ways,
34:30 and yet at the same time,
34:32 the character, if you take on just the film alone,
34:34 is such an addictive character to watch
34:36 because it's played so well,
34:38 you actually hate him so much,
34:39 and when he gets his comeuppance at the end,
34:41 you do have a laugh,
34:42 but even then he acts it really, really well,
34:44 as he's getting a swastika knifed into his head.
34:47 I think Hans Landers,
34:49 easily the worst, worst character ever,
34:52 while simultaneously being the best villain.
34:55 - And I agree with you as well.
34:56 I think he's an absolutely incredibly bad, nasty character,
34:59 which is incredibly watchable,
35:00 and also the fact that he isn't doing these things
35:02 because he's got any kind of dogma about being a nasty.
35:05 He doesn't believe in anything.
35:06 He believes in nothing apart from himself,
35:08 and wanting power and stuff for himself,
35:10 so you can't even excuse him
35:11 that he's been brainwashed or something.
35:13 He's just a thoroughly, thoroughly bad, bad man,
35:15 and just so peacefully played by Christoph Walsh.
35:18 My, I knew you were gonna pick that.
35:21 I was gonna pick that too,
35:21 just to give us a round dozen.
35:23 My other one was gonna be Annie Wilkes from "Misery,"
35:27 because of the hobbling scene,
35:28 which I used to watch again and again on grainy VHS.
35:31 We used to basically rewind it and forward it,
35:33 just to see James Cairns' ankles go like that,
35:37 again and again and again,
35:38 as she calls him a dirty birdie.
35:40 But I think she's great.
35:41 I think she's a fantastic,
35:42 one of the best villains in Stephen King film history.
35:46 So I'm gonna give a wee shout out
35:47 for Annie Wilkes in "Misery" as well,
35:49 but that's a pretty good six, I think.
35:51 - Pretty good list.
35:52 So if you're gonna see anything this week,
35:53 go see "Passages."
35:54 If you're gonna hate on anyone,
35:55 hate on Kathy Bates in "Misery,"
35:57 or hate on Hans Lander/Christoph Walsh in "Glorious."
36:01 But Dave, thanks for joining as always.
36:03 - Always a pleasure.
36:03 - And if you wanna listen to previous episodes,
36:06 you can do by going onto,
36:08 you're on the landing page.
36:09 You'll have a link underneath to our playlist.
36:11 But thanks for joining everyone, if you have.
36:13 - See you next week.
36:14 Bye.
36:14 (upbeat music)
36:17 ♪ Oh ♪
36:19 (upbeat music)
36:21 (upbeat music)
36:23 [BLANK_AUDIO]