• 2 years ago
Transcript
00:00 (upbeat music)
00:02 - Welcome to Sunday Morning Quarterback
00:10 with Jay Stockwell and Bob Frady.
00:13 Andrew Vonderman, distinguished member of the American Army.
00:18 Welcome to Military Week on the Sunday Morning Quarterback.
00:23 We really appreciate you being here.
00:28 For those that don't know, Andrew is an American war hero,
00:33 decorated by the president himself
00:35 with the Distinguished Service Cross
00:37 for the Battle of Kamdash in 2009.
00:40 And we will get to all that.
00:42 However, we have some more pressing matters
00:44 that we need to discuss with Andrew,
00:47 given that he is both a Minnesota Golden Gopher
00:49 and a deep, deep Vikings fan.
00:52 And two pretty unprecedented things happened last night.
00:55 The Gophers lost to Northwestern, blew a huge lead.
00:59 And then the Vikings have started out 0-3
01:01 and just lost to the LA Chargers this afternoon.
01:05 So he's feeling a little bit like a guy that lives
01:07 in Denver who blocks both the Colorado game
01:11 and the Miami game to Dolphins, 70-20 this afternoon.
01:15 So Andrew, you've got some explaining to do.
01:17 What's going on with Minnesota teams?
01:19 - First off, thanks for having me.
01:20 I appreciate it.
01:21 This is my first time on a Nebraska football podcast.
01:24 So, you know, I did try to brush up on at least a little.
01:28 - Let's go.
01:30 - Yeah, it's a welcoming community.
01:31 Hopefully it's a welcoming community, but yeah, no.
01:34 So thanks for having me, but yeah, it was brutal.
01:36 So I actually, I turned off the Gopher game
01:40 shortly after, you know, probably midway through the third.
01:43 They were up 31 to, I think, to 10 maybe,
01:46 somewhere in that range when I turned it off.
01:48 And I thought it was over.
01:50 And apparently we decided to play a fourth quarter
01:54 at Trestle Ball and it just went downhill relatively quickly
01:57 on the back half.
01:58 And I got a notification on my phone
02:00 that game was over and we lost.
02:02 So I was highly disappointed.
02:03 I'd love to give you a commentary on what happened
02:05 in the fourth quarter, but I didn't actually watch it
02:06 'cause I thought we'd had it wrapped up.
02:08 - Did you have to extinguish the victory cigar?
02:13 Like, oh man, sorry.
02:16 (laughing)
02:18 - I mean, sadly, like, I don't know
02:20 if you guys watched any of that game,
02:22 but if you look at the stands at Northwestern,
02:27 they decided to go out into the field
02:29 after the game apparently.
02:31 But like when I turned it off,
02:32 there couldn't have been more than like
02:33 four or 500 people in the stands.
02:35 I don't, I mean, it just,
02:38 I can't believe we lost that football game.
02:40 I say we, like I had some, you know, part in it,
02:43 but obviously I didn't have a lot to do with it,
02:47 but very, very disappointing loss.
02:49 I think that's a tough one.
02:50 - All I can say is given our experience with Minnesota fans,
02:54 serves you right, you jerks.
02:56 (laughing)
02:59 - Yeah, I mean, I, you know,
03:01 I'm sorry you had the rough experience here
03:05 coming up in the Twin Cities, but that's a tough loss.
03:07 - It was, it was tough.
03:08 - I guess it was like-
03:09 - It was trying to sort of better.
03:10 - What's going on with the Vikings?
03:12 - The Vikings?
03:12 - What is going on with the Vikings, man?
03:14 What, I mean, 0-3.
03:16 - 0-3 is tough, right?
03:17 I mean, I don't, you know, I'd love to break it down,
03:19 you know, but the first two games,
03:22 you just gave away the football, right?
03:24 You can't turn the ball over seven times and expect to win.
03:28 I think that's the biggest thing.
03:29 Today, it just looked like the Chargers
03:31 were trying to Charger it up and give us the game,
03:34 and the Vikings said, "No, you guys should win this one."
03:37 I mean, the last 10 minutes of that game
03:40 was an opportunity for Minnesota to have it,
03:42 and they just said, you know,
03:43 we would really prefer to lose,
03:45 go 0-3 and have the fans be really frustrated
03:49 for the next seven days.
03:50 I would say it's a great opportunity
03:52 to take care of Carolina next week,
03:54 but at this pace, who knows what'll happen.
03:56 - Is this the Caleb Williams lottery?
03:59 Is that what they're trying to do here?
04:00 - I don't think we're quite that bad enough.
04:02 When you look at the Bears, man,
04:03 I don't think we can go low enough
04:06 when you watch that team.
04:07 So I think, you know, who's number two?
04:10 - Yeah, I don't know.
04:11 I don't know. We'll see. We'll see.
04:12 - Well, right now it's the Vikings.
04:13 So here's the thing.
04:14 - No, I mean, who's the number two quarterback?
04:17 - The guy from North Carolina, May, I think it's his name.
04:19 - Oh, he's May, yeah.
04:21 He was pretty good.
04:22 He ripped up the Gophers last week.
04:23 - Yeah, there you go.
04:24 So he's already familiar with the state.
04:27 - Yeah, he's our next, right?
04:29 Next year's class of a bunch of great quarterbacks.
04:32 - Both of you two listen up for a second.
04:34 Here's why Tom Brady never did commercials,
04:38 TV commercials during the season,
04:40 because the guys who were doing the TV commercials
04:42 all season, they're having terrible seasons so far.
04:46 It's like, he's never sent Tom Brady on a commercial.
04:48 He's like, he's focused on his craft.
04:50 Like, these guys are like, "Look at me. I'm ripping this.
04:53 I'm ripping this. I'm ripping this."
04:55 Focus on your craft.
04:56 Plenty of time to do that when you're retired,
04:58 after you divorce and get a new model.
05:00 Plenty of time for advertising.
05:01 (laughing)
05:02 So yeah, Craig Haslam is all over.
05:04 - I think he's straight with the irons, huh?
05:05 - First time he saw him, he lost it and dressed it up.
05:07 He's like, "No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. No."
05:10 Allow the irons, Cole.
05:11 That's what you get from advertising in the off season.
05:14 Sorry, fellas. Focus.
05:15 - All right.
05:17 So we got just one more thing to talk about
05:19 before we get to Nebraska.
05:21 I think Dan Lanning, the head coach of Oregon,
05:23 is my new favorite coach.
05:24 Did you see the pregame video where he said the following?
05:29 "We are rooted in substance, not flash.
05:31 The Cinderella story is over, men.
05:35 They're playing for clicks. We're playing for wins."
05:38 - Okay, hey, listen.
05:39 This game isn't gonna be played in Hollywood.
05:43 It's gonna be played on grass.
05:44 Oh my God, what a great-
05:46 - If Coach Dion was the coach of Nebraska
05:49 and came out 3-0, you'd be like,
05:51 "He's just really confident, man.
05:53 He's a confident guy."
05:54 No, he's a bitch.
05:55 It's like, "They leave him alone.
05:57 They got that. We got our own problem.
06:00 Let them worry about that."
06:02 - But that wasn't about, it's not about Coach Prime, right?
06:07 I mean, I think Dan Lanning, and I'm not gonna say I'm a,
06:10 I loved the speech. I thought it was cool.
06:12 I think it was a way to be aggressive and frontal
06:17 and talk to the team, but at the same time,
06:20 not, I think, make it,
06:22 I think it was a way to do it around a team focus
06:27 as opposed to the personal focus the week before
06:29 that might've been a little bit more agitating
06:31 to the teams, right?
06:32 I thought it was great.
06:34 - So if we use the transitive properties,
06:36 since Colorado beat Nebraska by, what was it, 24,
06:40 and they lost to Oregon by 36,
06:44 does that mean that Oregon would beat Nebraska by 84 points?
06:48 (laughing)
06:50 - Now, come on, Bob.
06:51 You're on a Nebraska podcast.
06:53 - Oh, I know.
06:54 I'm using transitive properties here.
06:56 I just don't wanna make sure I got the math right.
07:00 - Well, it depends on how much they rush the ball.
07:02 If you can find an opponent that only tries
07:04 to run the football, you guys would probably be pretty good.
07:07 - Oh, yeah.
07:08 - Well, exactly, right?
07:08 'Cause we've never given up more than 46 yards,
07:13 which leads into the game.
07:14 So the Huskers won their second game,
07:16 28 to 14 versus Louisiana Tech.
07:19 I think, Bob, we did a pretty good job kinda calling it.
07:22 We said 35 to seven.
07:23 It was 28, 14.
07:24 - It was freakish.
07:25 - It should've been two touchdowns.
07:27 - It was 28 to seven,
07:28 and then they had that lightning strike,
07:29 and I was like, "Stockwell said 35 to seven.
07:32 "It's gonna land on 35 to seven,
07:34 "and I'm gonna have to hear about it for the next week."
07:37 - Well, I'm pretty curious.
07:38 35 to seven, you tell it to 'em.
07:39 - So I'm not happy that it's not 35 to seven,
07:42 but you got the total right, which is good.
07:44 - So we said Nebraska would win with a stout defense,
07:48 another gritty performance by Heinrich Harburg,
07:51 and despite a depleted running back room,
07:53 we were gonna be just fine,
07:55 and they ended up putting,
07:57 I'll give you the stats here for a second,
08:00 312 yards rushing.
08:02 And to your point, Andrew,
08:03 held the opponent to just 46 yards rushing.
08:07 That's the highest total for four games.
08:12 So Nebraska ranks number three in rushing defense
08:15 in the all of FBS.
08:18 So really, really gritty defensive performance.
08:21 Heinrich Harburg, I can't imagine.
08:24 I don't know if you guys notice it,
08:25 but when he runs the ball, he's holding that ball.
08:28 No one's ever gonna, he's never gonna fumble,
08:30 'cause he runs the ball high and tight
08:33 and just tucked in really hard.
08:34 He's the fastest guy on the field.
08:36 - Have you noticed, AJ?
08:40 Have you noticed the way he runs the ball?
08:41 He looks just like Forrest Gump.
08:43 He runs the ball like Forrest Gump.
08:46 I thought he was gonna run out of the end of the stadium,
08:48 like run across America with a smiley face or something.
08:51 It's like, where'd you go?
08:52 He's running, Forrest, run, Forrest, run.
08:54 - Yeah, he's running up right,
08:57 and he's got the ball tucked in right here,
08:59 and no one's gonna get it from him.
09:00 - Like knee braces are flying off.
09:01 He's like, run, run, run, run.
09:04 (laughing)
09:06 - The guy does not turn the ball,
09:09 and he's an accurate passer as well, right?
09:12 - The best part is that on the first run,
09:15 his playbook was flapping on his arm,
09:17 so he was studying and running at the same time,
09:19 which is why they did better in the second half.
09:21 (laughing)
09:22 - It's a technique, it's a technique.
09:24 Does this mean that you guys aren't going back
09:26 to the turnover machine that you had
09:27 for the first couple of games?
09:29 - Oh my God, I hope not.
09:30 I really hope he's kind of won the battle.
09:33 - He came in for a play,
09:35 and he was a little bit worse than me.
09:37 And it's like, you sprained an ankle multiple weeks.
09:40 It's not something, you're not over it in two weeks.
09:43 And he tried to run, and it was,
09:45 as an old guy watching him run,
09:48 I was like, wow, old guy better than that.
09:50 - So just going down the list here,
09:52 let's finish the stats here real quick.
09:55 Total offense, 419 versus 338.
09:59 Great, great job on three fumbles, none lost for Nebraska.
10:03 There was one interception.
10:06 Time of possession, 32 versus 27.
10:08 Pedal Ds were in pretty decent shape.
10:11 Six for 55 versus 12 for 100.
10:15 So 87,115 in attendance.
10:20 So really kind of a solid game.
10:22 You're right, there was the lightning delay,
10:24 and they came out a little bit flat after that.
10:27 They decided to play just Chubbaperty after that,
10:29 just to give him some reps.
10:32 But the game was pretty much in hand at that point.
10:34 Finished up 28 to 14.
10:36 - I think Nebraska has an issue
10:38 that for them to be successful and get a bowl this year,
10:42 they have to do one thing, and that's run the football.
10:45 And Satterfield, their offensive coordinator,
10:49 seems resistant to that idea.
10:51 Until people stopped them running the football
10:54 for 200 plus yards a game,
10:55 they need to continue to run the football.
10:57 Now that may come to fruit against Michigan, who knows,
11:01 but running the football is just like farming,
11:04 which is why people from Nebraska like it so much.
11:06 Like you just gotta pound the ground.
11:08 Ground, pound the ground, pound it, pound it, pound it,
11:11 you'll eventually have success.
11:13 And all this fancy stuff just gets them into trouble.
11:16 So it's like you run, run, run,
11:17 and then you throw short passes
11:18 that hopefully turn into long passes
11:20 'cause the safeties are rolled up.
11:21 But that's just me.
11:22 What do I know? I'm a fan.
11:24 I just vote with my head, or my heart, not with my head.
11:26 - I think Heinrich is very accurate, though.
11:28 So I think to open up the run even further,
11:31 a little bit of play action,
11:33 a little bit of short passes to the flats.
11:35 And I think they, he hasn't pitched it yet.
11:37 He's running an option,
11:38 and he hasn't ever pitched it, right?
11:40 Not once. - Yeah, yeah.
11:42 I love the option. - And all the sportswriters
11:43 in Nebraska were, the option is run to the end zone, right?
11:47 Little forest elk trot down to the end zone.
11:49 All the sportswriters in Nebraska this weekend
11:52 were talking about just comparisons.
11:56 They had a Hall of Fame thing,
11:57 and Taylor Martinez was in town.
11:59 And so they went back and compared Heinrich Harburg
12:01 all the way back to Eric Crouch, Scott Frost, Jamal Lord,
12:05 all the running quarterbacks in our history.
12:08 And I think this kid is special.
12:10 I mean, and 6'5", 2'15", fastest guy on the team.
12:15 So I think there's a bit of a dilemma.
12:17 I'm gonna be really upset if we go back to your point,
12:21 Andrew, the turnover machine of Jeff Sims.
12:23 We called this out in our first podcast.
12:25 He came from Georgia Tech with 31 turnovers, most in FBS.
12:30 Had thrown 25 interceptions in 23 games.
12:34 So I like this step forward for Nebraska.
12:38 I think the evolution of the team,
12:40 the beginning of the Matt Ruhle era is on its way.
12:44 And I think the preseason predictions
12:45 of both Bob and I, Bob had 'em eight and four
12:48 for the season, and I had 'em at seven and five.
12:50 I look pretty good right now.
12:51 - Is this Harburg young man, is he a portal guy
12:58 or did you guys recruit him out of high school?
13:01 - He's from Nebraska, played for Carney.
13:03 North Carney Catholic.
13:05 - Oh, man.
13:06 - Nebraska scholarship quarterback.
13:07 - Yeah, yeah.
13:08 - And he's Chip Crouch, right?
13:10 In years.
13:10 - Even more fun, even more fun.
13:13 - So Bob, any other final observations about the game?
13:17 I was pretty impressed.
13:18 You know, on both sides of the ball,
13:20 special teams look good.
13:22 - Who else had it such that?
13:23 - Good solid one, oh, your boy Fedoni.
13:26 Yeah, that's right.
13:27 - Fedoni.
13:28 - And again, I thought that was a very accurate pass.
13:31 Good play call.
13:32 And yeah, he's gonna be good.
13:34 He's another six, four.
13:35 - I'm still mad we lost to Minnesota.
13:37 I mean, I know I have to let it go at some point,
13:39 but come on.
13:40 Fumble that team away.
13:41 - You guys gave us the game
13:44 at the end of the last five minutes of the fourth quarter.
13:46 You had it.
13:47 You returned the favor yesterday.
13:49 Like, is this like one of those gifts
13:51 that you just keep regifting to other teams?
13:54 It's like, okay, we regifted this to you.
13:57 You gave it to Northwestern.
13:58 Now Northwestern is gonna give it to like Austin P
14:00 or something like that.
14:02 - Well, I don't know.
14:03 You know, when I look at Minnesota,
14:05 you got Ohio State and Michigan
14:06 on the schedule this year, right?
14:08 And so you start looking at where the wins
14:12 are gonna come from.
14:13 And if you can't close out Northwestern,
14:17 it concerns me.
14:18 And now all of a sudden our freshman running back
14:20 is banged up.
14:21 Don't know how bad it was, right?
14:22 But we run a freshman running back for 31 times last night.
14:27 And then he goes out at the end of the game
14:29 'cause he's hurt.
14:30 And we obviously don't trust the rest of the backfield.
14:35 So I don't know what's going on there.
14:36 And I don't know.
14:38 The rest of the season will be interesting.
14:40 - You guys missed Mo.
14:41 They'll pull off that Toronto ball.
14:42 - We had Tanner and Mo here
14:43 for the better part of a decade, right?
14:46 You know, like, I mean,
14:47 I think they were here like six years
14:49 or something like that.
14:50 And we had like an old lineman,
14:52 I think he was seven, right?
14:53 I mean, just an absurd amount of time.
14:55 He might've been closer to his 40th birthday than me.
14:58 I don't know.
14:59 (laughing)
15:01 - All right.
15:03 Well, so good game.
15:04 We've got Michigan coming in.
15:07 We'll do a prediction pod on Wednesday, Bob.
15:10 I'm actually feeling like it could be a decent game.
15:14 I still think Michigan will win.
15:16 Their defense is a lot better
15:18 than anything that we've seen.
15:19 But I do think that we can run the ball
15:21 and maybe eat some clock and keep it somewhat close.
15:25 - By the way, you know who is susceptible to the run?
15:29 Is USC.
15:30 I attended the USC Arizona State game last night
15:33 because my daughter goes to ASU
15:36 and it was parents weekend.
15:38 Some team is just gonna pound the ball on those guys.
15:40 Talk about an undisciplined football team.
15:42 So they're a paper tiger.
15:44 They're gonna go down Washington or Oregon.
15:46 Whoever wins that game will win the PAC 12.
15:50 And whoever wins the PAC 12 will win the CFB playoff.
15:54 Nobody else is close.
15:55 The other team, the SEC is weak this year.
16:00 The Big 10 is not that strong.
16:02 The PAC 12 is like going out with a vengeance.
16:06 Vengeance towards.
16:07 - That is a bold September statement right there.
16:10 That is a very bold September statement.
16:12 - Most of my statements are bold in September
16:14 because that way they could either go to the limousine
16:16 or they can die in the line.
16:18 Either way I'm fine.
16:19 - Is Caleb Williams as good as he looks?
16:24 Is he like just the man?
16:26 I know he's the trophy winner last year.
16:28 He's better than that, right?
16:29 - Yeah. - Wow.
16:30 - Yeah. - Wow.
16:31 - So he has incredible vision.
16:34 He can throw on the run.
16:35 He's a wonderful, he's like,
16:39 he is Shadora Stevens, Shadora Steven.
16:41 I mean, Sanders, Shadora Sanders.
16:44 Shadora Sanders.
16:45 I always say the wrong name.
16:46 I gotta like write stuff out.
16:48 He's like, if you put a Sanders on top of a Sanders,
16:51 that would be Caleb Williams.
16:52 He's that good.
16:53 - Wow.
16:53 I'll tell you who looked good last night, Bo Nix.
16:55 Bo Nix from, I think he was like 20 for 33,
16:59 276 yards through like a 176 passer rating.
17:02 - Yeah.
17:03 - That guy, they looked like they were just playing catch.
17:06 - Yeah, they have wonderful,
17:08 they do a great job of recruiting.
17:09 I mean, when you got Nike right there,
17:11 you know that NIL money is pretty good.
17:14 So, you know, they're doing some good things up in Oregon
17:18 in the Adventure a while.
17:20 But anyway, yeah, I still,
17:22 the Big 10 West is there for the taking.
17:25 So whoever manages to rally and get a decent offense,
17:29 good defense going for the rest of the season,
17:31 still has a chance to win the whole thing.
17:33 - The Big 10 West is awful.
17:35 I think is what the words you were actually going for right
17:37 now, they're playing bad.
17:39 I mean, right now you,
17:41 you gotta feel good about the way,
17:42 honestly where Nebraska sits in the Big 10 West, right?
17:45 Like, I mean, Iowa didn't exactly show out last night.
17:50 I don't know if you guys saw that one at all,
17:52 but it looked rough.
17:53 - Well, they had scored so many points in the previous game
17:56 that they used up their allotment of points per game.
17:59 So they had to put a zero on there
18:01 to get the average back down to where they felt comfortable.
18:04 - Yeah, no, I mean, the Big 10 West looks rough right now.
18:06 I'm hoping that most of the teams get better
18:10 as the season goes on, right?
18:11 Just so we can see some, some better things.
18:13 I think Nebraska is trending in the right direction.
18:16 Minnesota is not.
18:17 I don't know what's going on in Wisconsin.
18:18 I gotta pay more attention up there,
18:19 but I won't watch them more until October.
18:21 But it certainly seems like the West,
18:24 to your point is very much takeable
18:27 for somebody that wants to string four wins together
18:30 or, you know, in, in late October, it, it feels that way.
18:34 I made notes about the Big 10 in Nebraska here last night.
18:38 - I feel like I stayed up late.
18:40 - What's wrong with you?
18:41 - You know, I like to, you know, it was.
18:43 - I can, I can attest the fact that Andrew comes prepared
18:48 for everything except golf,
18:50 but we'll talk about that in a minute.
18:51 - Yeah.
18:52 (laughing)
18:54 Bombed him in.
18:55 - So, so let me get. - Bombed him in on the tee.
18:57 - Bombed him in, yeah, exactly, exactly.
18:59 So let's turn our attention to our guests here.
19:02 Again, thank you, Andrew, for being here.
19:04 Three weeks ago for the Minnesota game,
19:06 we held an event at the United Country Club
19:08 in support of the Nebraska Business School,
19:10 and Andrew was the guest speaker,
19:13 and he absolutely blew away this, this audience.
19:18 And I just got to show you a little picture here
19:20 that they sent me, Andrew.
19:22 They put the picture on, on metal and, and framed it,
19:27 and then told a little story on the back about the event.
19:30 - Very nice.
19:31 - Which is really neat.
19:33 - That is good.
19:34 - But, but let me, let me just try to put,
19:36 fill in the blanks for everybody here a little bit.
19:38 So how I discovered Andrew,
19:41 I don't know how COVID went for everybody else,
19:43 but for me, it was war movies and bourbon.
19:46 And in 2020, I noticed this.
19:48 - In that order, in that order.
19:50 (laughing)
19:53 - And in 2020, I was watching this new movie
19:55 that came out called "The Outpost."
19:58 It was based on a book written by Jake Tapper,
20:00 and, and I'm, and I'm watching it.
20:03 It's based, based on a true story,
20:04 the Battle of Kamdash,
20:05 the most decorated battle since World War II.
20:08 And in, in watching it,
20:10 I noticed this guy with a Minnesota hat,
20:13 and I was like, well, this is a true story.
20:15 This has to be real.
20:17 And so, lo and behold, I look Andrew up on LinkedIn,
20:22 and sure enough, he lives right here in Minneapolis.
20:25 And I connect with him on LinkedIn, send him an email,
20:29 and invite him over to play golf.
20:31 And, and then we, we played golf,
20:35 and I asked him about 500 questions
20:37 about the battle over 18 holes.
20:39 I should remind everyone that I won that match
20:41 by one, one shot.
20:43 - Indeed, that is, that is true.
20:45 That is true.
20:47 - Since then, Andrew has been,
20:49 we've, we've, we've memorialized that
20:51 into a tournament that we call the Bunderman Open,
20:55 and we've been playing it every year,
20:56 and we've invited our friend,
20:59 Randall McDaniel, to play with us.
21:01 We'll talk more about that in a second.
21:03 But let me just read, if I can,
21:06 and I hate to do this to you, Andrew,
21:07 'cause I know this is probably embarrassing
21:09 for you to hear this, but just,
21:11 I won't read the whole thing,
21:12 but I just wanna read a part, portion of your bio
21:16 that would sort of put this in context for everybody.
21:19 During a tour of Afghanistan in 2009,
21:23 then First Lieutenant Bunderman was awarded
21:25 the Distinguished Service Cross
21:27 by the President of the United States
21:28 for extraordinary heroism while engaged in an action
21:31 against an enemy of the United States
21:33 while serving as acting commander of Bravo Troop,
21:35 3rd Squadron, 61st Cavalry Regiment,
21:37 4th Brigade Combat Team,
21:39 and the 4th Infantry Division.
21:41 So in that battle, there were two,
21:43 there are two living Medal of Honors, Honor winners,
21:46 the Distinguished Service Cross, which Andrew was awarded,
21:52 and it was a horrific battle.
21:57 And as Andrew told the team assembled in the Nebraska event,
22:01 they were in what he called a kinetic battle for 35 days.
22:06 And then ultimately, the Taliban attacked with 400 plus,
22:11 and correct these numbers if I have them wrong,
22:13 and they were on an outpost with just 53 people.
22:16 And what I thought the movie got extraordinarily right
22:21 is the camaraderie that exists,
22:23 and it's different than everybody would think
22:25 in a real military unit.
22:27 It's a little bit of soft work,
22:30 it's a little bit fraternal,
22:31 it's a little bit, quite a bit of jocularity,
22:35 a little bit of humor,
22:37 and I think they did a pretty good job
22:38 of capturing that in the movie.
22:41 And so over the last three years,
22:44 we've been running the Bunderman Open for three years now.
22:47 We've gotten to know Andrew quite well.
22:50 Bob and I actually played Andrew and Randall
22:56 this year in the Bunderman Open,
22:57 and I think they both left with a little less money
23:00 than they came with.
23:01 - I got 30 big ones.
23:05 30.
23:07 - But Andrew, I know this is maybe a little awkward
23:16 on a football podcast,
23:18 but you talked about a couple things in this thing
23:22 that were really, I think really hit the audience.
23:25 The notion of the importance of winning in a war setting,
23:29 and then at the end, I'd love you to talk about
23:32 your thoughts on how we left Afghanistan,
23:35 and 'cause I know you have a very unique take on that.
23:37 So thank you for coming, sorry for that long preamble,
23:41 but if you could just share a little bit
23:43 about that experience and what it meant to you
23:46 and the people that you went through it with.
23:48 - Yeah, I know.
23:50 - Hang on one second. - Appreciate the intro,
23:51 it was good.
23:52 - Hang on one second, Andrew.
23:54 We're not gonna call that a preamble anymore,
23:56 we're just gonna call it an amble,
23:58 'cause Stockwell starts here,
23:59 just kinda ambles around a little bit,
24:02 circled around.
24:03 Thank you for that amble, Jay Stockwell, over to you.
24:07 - That's tough to follow that portion of it.
24:14 Well done there.
24:15 Yeah, no, it was good.
24:18 So there was, yeah, Ty Carter and then Clint Romesha
24:21 were the living Medal of Honor recipients, good dudes,
24:26 and I've had the opportunity to continue to stay in touch
24:28 with those guys over the years.
24:29 And then Guy Agos also was awarded a DSC posthumously
24:34 as well, so had the opportunity to serve
24:37 with some great folks.
24:39 You know, a couple of things in there that I always bring.
24:42 One, the opportunity to serve with a lot of great people.
24:45 What is best described sometimes is sophomoric
24:49 and fraternal and some of those big words you use, Jay,
24:54 I think is really just a special, special type
24:58 of relationship that you have
25:00 and you don't get in many other places.
25:01 And I know you, you know, I watched a couple
25:03 of their podcasts and you fly the little plane around
25:05 in front of the screen sometimes, right?
25:06 But I'm sure you still have relationships
25:08 with some of those people you spent a lot of time with.
25:13 And it's just a different kind of relationship, right?
25:18 And a friendship that's just very, very different.
25:21 And in some ways sports is like,
25:25 I don't wanna compare the two, right?
25:26 'Cause I'm not, but sports has a similar type
25:29 of an atmosphere where people connect with each other
25:32 in different types of ways, right?
25:34 Been lucky enough to go off into some business communities
25:37 and you know, you build bonds and relationships
25:39 and friendships with folks, but it's a different type
25:44 of transactional relationship than what you tend to see.
25:48 And so it's just a really special relationship
25:52 and I'm glad that came through in the movie, right?
25:55 I hope people take that away as something
25:57 that is out there.
25:58 - Is it because you don't have to be overly concerned
26:00 about people's feelings?
26:01 Spit it out there.
26:02 - I don't think it's about feelings.
26:03 I think it's a comfort level with people
26:05 and knowing that the individual you're with
26:11 always will put you before themselves, right?
26:16 Like- - That's right.
26:17 - And that's a different type of,
26:19 and so like you feel very open and willing
26:22 to communicate with that individual,
26:23 whether it's to your point,
26:24 not necessarily caring about feelings,
26:27 but it's because of the way that you know
26:30 how they think about you.
26:31 Even when they're as mad as they could possibly be at you,
26:34 they would still do anything for you, right?
26:37 Like they could hate you
26:39 and they would still do anything for you.
26:40 And so I think that allows you
26:44 to have a communication style that's very, very different
26:47 than what most people experience in their everyday lives.
26:50 - I went to 29 Palms one time and I did a show there.
26:53 And we were talking to some of the guys
26:55 who would serve over in the Middle East.
26:57 And they told us a story about a guy
26:59 who wasn't necessarily that well-liked,
27:01 but someone threw a grenade into their hole
27:04 and he jumped on it and ended up passing away
27:07 because he put himself,
27:09 he put his teammates ahead of himself
27:11 and just sacrificed himself to save the team.
27:14 And I never really thought about it that way,
27:17 which is a much different way.
27:18 So apologies if you didn't flip,
27:21 but that's a pretty powerful communication level.
27:26 - For sure.
27:27 - Andrew, for the people that have watched the movie,
27:32 explain what you were doing in such a remote location.
27:35 'Cause I think that's important context for this story.
27:38 - In the earlier 2000s, right?
27:40 2005, 2006 timeframe,
27:43 that part of Afghanistan was relatively friendly
27:46 to coalition forces.
27:48 And so at that point in time,
27:52 the US Army coalition forces had really transferred
27:55 to kind of a coin strategy
27:57 where we were trying to embed units
27:58 closer to population centers
28:00 and spend time within the population
28:04 so that you could work to,
28:07 I guess, develop infrastructure and government
28:11 and governance, right?
28:13 In these economies of scale
28:15 that allowed people to kind of, I guess,
28:18 move forward in a different way
28:19 than previously had been under the Taliban.
28:21 And again, when we first established,
28:25 not my unit, but other units established,
28:28 cop Keating, it was relatively friendly.
28:30 And so it was put in a very,
28:35 it was an austere location.
28:36 And at the time you could drive there on a very narrow road
28:40 it was still a very dangerous drive.
28:41 I mean, we actually had soldiers who had perished previously
28:44 because their vehicles rolled over down cliffs
28:47 into rivers, et cetera, because it's hard to drive to.
28:50 So it eventually became an air centric location
28:52 where we only came in on helicopters,
28:55 but it was close to a couple of different villages
28:59 or walkable to a couple of different villages.
29:00 So that's why it was located there,
29:02 even though it was at the base of a bunch of hills
29:06 or foothills and mountains.
29:08 There was some overwatch with some OPs,
29:10 but no direct line of sight, but it was placed there.
29:13 So you had the ability to really project force
29:16 and communication within the local population
29:21 down within that Valley.
29:22 - And did you know there was a Nebraska connection
29:27 to the crew that was out there with Lieutenant Euskis,
29:29 did you know him?
29:31 - I did not know him.
29:32 He was in a previous unit.
29:36 - Got it, got it.
29:37 But a Nebraska guy nonetheless that served in the same area.
29:40 - Yep. - Yeah, yeah.
29:41 - And he ended up-- - Oh, go ahead, sorry, Jay.
29:44 - He ended up being killed, unfortunately.
29:47 - Yes, yes.
29:49 And Brad Larson, another Nebraska native.
29:52 I think a Doan College guy was there in my unit as well.
29:57 I think the picture you're referencing that is there,
30:00 there's one with Clint, myself,
30:03 and then Brad is there as well.
30:04 I think he happens to be wearing a Nebraska hat, so.
30:07 - How disappointed was your wife with you
30:10 after she saw the movie and how handsome you were
30:13 in the movie versus how you are in real life?
30:15 (laughing)
30:16 Like, was she mad for like a week or was it two?
30:19 Did she forgive that, what happened?
30:21 - You know, we've been married a lot of years now,
30:26 so she's used to just constant disappointment
30:28 behind my school boots from the play of the whole day.
30:32 She was probably more disappointed when I came home
30:34 and said I lost to you two, yay, who's playing golf.
30:37 (laughing)
30:39 - Yeah.
30:40 So Andrew, let's talk about the final battle
30:46 and then I wanna ask you about the question
30:49 that was asked at the event about the way we left Afghanistan
30:54 just talk about this, the battle and how it played out.
30:58 It was, you represented in the meeting, it was 35 days
31:01 and then the more concentrated battle happened
31:04 out of the unannounced item fold.
31:06 - Yeah, so try to add a little detail.
31:08 So we had over the course of that summer,
31:12 I described as a kinetic battlefield,
31:14 meaning you're in direct fire, indirect fire,
31:17 you're actively engaging the enemy
31:20 with some layer of fire on a given day.
31:23 And so for roughly a month leading up,
31:27 you referenced 35 days, every single day,
31:29 we had some level of engagement with the enemy.
31:33 And that was true throughout most of the summer of '09.
31:38 And then on October 3rd, yeah,
31:40 obviously it was a different type of a situation.
31:44 Yeah, so the unit of 53 engaged
31:46 by roughly 400 Taliban forces.
31:51 We spent the day both at Cop Keating and OP Fritchie,
31:57 you know, working to defend that ground
32:00 and then counter attack and go through all the activities
32:03 that happened on that.
32:04 But very much a multifaceted engagement, right?
32:09 So really when you break down ground combat,
32:13 a lot of it comes down to who has the ability to shoot,
32:17 to move and to communicate better.
32:19 And usually if you do those three things better
32:22 than the enemy, you're gonna win the day.
32:24 And so the enemy did a really good job
32:29 for the first several hours of decreasing our ability
32:34 to do those three things really,
32:36 in particular, the shooting, the move,
32:39 we were able to communicate well still,
32:40 but it took us a while to regain the freedom of maneuver.
32:44 Right, like we had RPGs, there was cruiser weapons,
32:48 they had heavy weapon systems, indirect fire.
32:52 And it really hindered our ability to use our indirect fires,
32:56 our cruiser weapons, maneuver our forces.
32:59 We're in a location that was a long ways away.
33:01 So it took over an hour to get indirect air support.
33:05 So it just, it took us a little while to get that.
33:08 And eventually, the team,
33:12 you was able to regain that freedom of maneuver
33:15 and regain the initiative, right?
33:17 So we worked with indirect fire,
33:19 we worked with our rotary wing aircraft,
33:21 we worked with fixed wing aircraft.
33:23 And eventually you just start taking little bits back,
33:27 bit by bit, there was a QRF that came in later
33:29 in the evening that was able to secure
33:31 some more higher ground above us
33:33 and push down to our location.
33:34 And you just keep working in small teams.
33:39 And what it comes down to is, you know,
33:42 set up a base of fire, maneuver, and just get after it.
33:47 And so as much as we talk all the time
33:51 about how warfare has changed over the years,
33:53 and it does, it constantly evolves
33:55 with different weapon systems and the tactics
33:58 and platforms and all these different things.
34:00 It always, at least to this point in time,
34:06 comes down to soldiers going and taking territory
34:11 with the support of all those different things.
34:13 But at the end of the day,
34:14 it's still guys on the ground running forward.
34:18 And always super proud of the way the team
34:21 always ran to the guns and moved forward.
34:24 - I'd like you to, I haven't served.
34:26 My dad served for 31 years and would never talk about it.
34:30 He's a World War II veteran.
34:31 Stockwell's experience as well,
34:33 there were two drinks and the commander's daughter,
34:35 and I can't really relate to that.
34:37 (laughing)
34:39 I was in the back of the airplane,
34:43 we were flying around and then next thing I know,
34:45 oh look at him.
34:46 But I would imagine it would be completely terrifying
34:51 to be in that environment.
34:53 Or is it you just become so focused
34:54 that you don't even recognize what's going on?
34:58 Emotionally, how did that play out for you?
35:00 - It's a great question.
35:03 I think everyone in some fashion has fear.
35:08 Right now, how you react to the immediate rush of that
35:18 is really important.
35:22 And I credit the Army with really training soldiers well
35:26 to how you react right after it.
35:28 And then to a certain extent,
35:33 there is some muscle memory to it, right?
35:36 So Jay referenced, we spent months before this
35:40 where we had direct engagement with the enemy
35:44 and doing a lot of different things.
35:45 And you saw people get hurt.
35:51 And you kind of went through these different iterations
35:54 of things happening.
35:55 And I think some of that prepares you
35:58 to do better the next time if you approach it correctly.
36:01 It doesn't mean people don't get frightened.
36:05 It doesn't mean it changes decision-making.
36:08 But it does allow you to, I think, take a step back, breathe.
36:14 And I don't mean take minutes to make decisions,
36:18 but maybe you make a decision in a second or two.
36:21 And that extra second or that extra beat
36:25 may make all the difference, right, in how you respond.
36:28 And so there's something to it.
36:33 I think how you respond to it,
36:38 if you breathe and think about what you wanna do
36:40 and what you're trying to accomplish for one second,
36:43 you'll generally make better decisions
36:45 than if you drastically just try to go do something crazy.
36:49 But it's an incredible rush of adrenaline
36:54 that you have to fight through
36:57 in order to continue to really focus
37:01 on what you're trying to do.
37:02 - So Andrew, there was this part where Romesha,
37:05 like we gotta go take back the weapons.
37:08 We got everything we need here to win this battle.
37:11 Was that represented in the movie accurately?
37:13 - Yeah, I mean, I think Hollywood probably takes liberty
37:16 with words.
37:18 It's hard to always come back
37:20 with the exact verbiage of things,
37:21 but generally speaking, when we'd reached our limit
37:26 of how far we were gonna compress,
37:29 that yeah, it was, hey, we're gonna go
37:31 to the ammo control point next, right?
37:34 That was where you wanted to go take back.
37:36 It provided us with a great level
37:38 of concealing cover location to go from.
37:42 So I think it made the most sense when you look at it.
37:45 But yeah, that's generally accurate, yeah.
37:47 - Well, very cool.
37:48 Thank you for sharing this story again.
37:50 I know you blew away that crew
37:52 that was there at the Atlantic Country Club.
37:55 Everybody represented the mean.
37:56 That was just such a great event.
37:58 But at that, the last question that was asked there
38:02 was about your feelings about how the US exited Afghanistan.
38:07 And I thought your answer was pretty insightful
38:11 and compelling.
38:13 You wanna just share that?
38:14 - Yeah, yeah.
38:15 I mean, it's obviously disappointing
38:20 when you see the exodus out of the airfield, right?
38:24 That's hard to watch, right?
38:25 A lot of people gave up a lot in Afghanistan.
38:27 Now, I would challenge that most of us always knew
38:31 eventually you're gonna leave in some fashion, right?
38:34 Like we're not there to become occupiers for long-term.
38:39 But I think if you look strategically across the globe,
38:42 we keep numbers of forces in all parts of the world, right?
38:47 In smaller amounts.
38:50 And for the last few years in Afghanistan,
38:52 we had a few thousand soldiers.
38:55 And generally speaking, force pro,
38:57 projecting a small presence,
38:59 the ability really just to make sure the government
39:02 had the capability to maintain control to a certain extent,
39:07 whether it was everywhere or just a small portion.
39:12 And I think what I struggle the most with,
39:16 and I did a couple of interviews afterward.
39:18 And I think what I really struggle the most with
39:20 is there's a whole generation of girls and young women
39:25 in particular that had the opportunity to go to school
39:32 and have jobs and do freely what they wanted to do, right?
39:36 Like if you were born in 2004,
39:40 you had 15, 16 years of the ability to go do whatever
39:45 and live what we would consider,
39:47 for lack of better terms, a Western style,
39:49 being able to make your own decisions.
39:51 And I think we take for granted the fact that
39:56 in the span of a week, all of a sudden,
40:01 all of those human rights are gone now.
40:03 And it's really disappointing to me
40:06 that we couldn't figure out a better way
40:09 to at least preserve a presence that allowed governance
40:12 to make sure that we could enforce
40:14 what I would consider basic rights for all citizens, right?
40:18 And we should have done better in that regard.
40:21 There's very few people I think that would,
40:23 that'd be like, yeah, we should have 100,000 soldiers there
40:25 for eternity, right?
40:26 Like that's not a good way to do it.
40:28 It's too expensive, but it's really disappointing now
40:31 when you look at what's happening in Afghanistan,
40:33 mass starvation across a lot of the population.
40:37 Like it's just really, really disappointing.
40:41 And we could have done so much better
40:44 and we should expect so much better from our leaders.
40:49 Like this wasn't hard to see.
40:53 - All these young women who would experience
40:55 like a degree of freedom had it taken away from them
40:59 literally overnight.
41:00 And so the changes would have been drastic
41:03 and dramatic in their lives.
41:06 And another issue is I think we left a lot of people behind
41:09 that helped the army with the promise of,
41:14 having a connection back to the US at some point.
41:16 And a lot of those folks got left behind
41:19 in the way we left, isn't that right?
41:21 - Yeah, certainly.
41:22 I mean, I think the efforts continued.
41:24 I think what's interesting is,
41:25 look at all these organizations that have spent,
41:28 that crazy seven, 10, 15 days when it became known
41:33 that essentially the government was gonna fail, right?
41:36 It was imminent.
41:37 Think about the number of ex-service members
41:41 that literally went over there trying to help out.
41:44 And then they built these networks
41:45 trying to figure out who was where.
41:46 And they're still doing that to this day.
41:48 There are people still working on it.
41:50 And I'm grateful for the effort they put into that.
41:55 We have the ability to do so much better.
41:56 We have so many really smart people in places
42:00 that can make a difference.
42:01 And yet for whatever reason,
42:03 we are unwilling to come to grips with the fact
42:06 that we deserve so much better
42:08 and can put so much better leaders up front.
42:11 And that's across everywhere.
42:12 It's just really disappointing.
42:13 We can do better than what we've done.
42:15 - I know this is a football podcast,
42:16 but I have to ask you, I, as a former military guy,
42:20 watched what's going on in Afghanistan very, very closely.
42:24 And when you were talking how battles are,
42:27 come down to the fundamentals, the three fundamentals,
42:30 that's literally what's going on there now.
42:33 Do you see that ending?
42:34 And are we looking at another forever war here?
42:37 How do you see that unfolding based on your own experience?
42:41 - Sorry, where were you referencing?
42:42 I'm sorry.
42:43 - Yeah, Ukraine.
42:44 Sorry, if I didn't make that clear.
42:46 - Right, like I don't know a lot about Ukraine.
42:48 Obviously I read what's in the news.
42:50 It sounds like they make progress here and there.
42:53 I can't really speak to how I think it'll go.
42:56 I don't really know.
42:57 I think it's important to articulate a US policy
43:02 of containment and strength and prosperity
43:06 for people that want it.
43:07 And so I do think it's important that we focus
43:10 on supporting that in some fashion.
43:13 I would love to see our leaders really come out
43:17 with clear goals of what we expect
43:20 and what we think we can provide and assist with
43:25 that may allow for better success, right?
43:28 And I think sometimes it's,
43:29 hey, we're gonna do this, we're gonna do that.
43:30 And you could maybe provide some more clarity to the public
43:35 that would allow them to be more supportive
43:39 of what's happening.
43:40 But I do think it's an opportunity to show
43:44 where the free world stands.
43:48 And I think that's important and it should be.
43:50 - Yeah, I watch it very closely
43:55 and I look at sources for,
43:56 coming directly from experienced retired military officers
44:02 that are watching this thing really, really closely.
44:04 And it's just unclear.
44:06 And it seems like support in Congress is kind of waning.
44:10 Zelensky was in town for the UN
44:11 and they wouldn't give him another audience with Congress.
44:14 But I also don't wanna get in another forever war.
44:19 And I just, I don't know what the off ramps are in this one.
44:23 It's just not clear to me how this works.
44:26 - I think that's valid, right?
44:27 Like what is the end expectation?
44:30 Where do we think we can get to?
44:31 I do think it's also important
44:33 to make sure we keep that line of,
44:35 hey, we don't really wanna get into a frontal conflict
44:41 where we've got forces there,
44:44 or at least in that regard.
44:46 So to this point, I think they've done a good job
44:50 in that aspect.
44:52 I think the American people have been extremely forthcoming
44:57 with their money and resources.
45:03 And I do hope, I guess I really hope that
45:07 our leadership is looking at it and saying,
45:10 hey, we need to reevaluate
45:13 what our military industrial supply chain looks like,
45:17 how fast we can make ammunition,
45:19 how fast we can make long range missiles,
45:21 how are we prepared?
45:24 Because I don't necessarily think it's just about,
45:26 we talk about a reference shoot, moving, communicate,
45:29 that's what it's gonna come down to.
45:30 But how do you overwhelm them with firepower?
45:34 And if we don't have the ability
45:36 to make more than everybody else, that's a problem.
45:39 And we have great technology,
45:43 but if you can't make a shit ton of it,
45:47 it may not matter, right?
45:48 So let's figure out that now.
45:51 And go make more stuff, right?
45:54 Whether it's howitzers and ammunition
45:57 and just straight up small arms and cruisers
45:59 and all these things that you need to have on the shelf
46:01 ready to go.
46:02 I think if it's not a wake up call,
46:04 people really should understand why it's not,
46:06 because there are other folks, it's a dangerous world.
46:11 And as much as we don't want it to be a dangerous world,
46:15 it is.
46:16 And you really want to have the ability
46:19 to beat the hell out of the wolf at the door.
46:23 And so we should be taking note.
46:25 - Well, I think that's an appropriate place to wrap it up.
46:30 And I just want to say thank you
46:31 for doing the Nebraska event.
46:33 You've been so generous with your time.
46:35 One of my favorite things of the year
46:37 is the Bunderman Open and getting together
46:39 with our buddy, Randall McDaniel,
46:41 who he's just a wonderful human being.
46:44 - He's the kindest individual ever, right?
46:47 Such a wonderful person.
46:48 - Great dude.
46:49 - Yeah, yeah.
46:51 Well, for those who don't know,
46:52 he's a Hall of Fame lineman for the Vikings.
46:56 And I met him at a golf tournament
46:58 and we were both talking about getting our knees replaced.
47:01 So that's how we got to be able to discuss with him.
47:03 And then we invited him to play golf.
47:05 I didn't know, I was the only one in the room
47:06 that didn't know who he was at that time.
47:10 He's my age, Arizona State Sun Devil.
47:14 Really, really good dude.
47:16 So we have an annual golf event with him every year now.
47:19 So really enjoyable.
47:21 And who does Minnesota have next week?
47:24 - The Illinois, if I remember correctly.
47:26 But don't take that as gospel.
47:28 I gotta look at the schedule.
47:29 - And we've got Michigan.
47:31 So the Big Ten season continues.
47:33 And I think you outlined a really interesting race
47:36 for the Big Ten West here.
47:38 So you are welcome back here anytime, sir.
47:41 And if any of your buddies make it to town,
47:45 let me know.
47:46 I'd love to have dinner with you guys.
47:48 - Yeah, and I was wrong.
47:49 I was very wrong.
47:50 It's Illinois, or sorry, it's Louisiana, not Illinois.
47:53 So extremely off.
47:55 (laughing)
47:58 Extremely off.
48:00 - Why are they playing a non-conference game now?
48:04 - Nah, who knows?
48:05 I'm sure we bought somebody out.
48:07 I'm not sure.
48:08 [laughter]