Podcast: Tricky Times for McDaniels
In our latest episode of the Las Vegas Raiders Insider Podcast, we discuss the tricky position Josh McDaniels needs to avoid.
Transcript
00:00 Hi everybody, this is Hondo Carpenter from Sports Illustrated's Fan Nation Las Vegas
00:06 Raiders Insider Podcast.
00:09 And today we're going to be discussing an article that we'll be publishing on Wednesday.
00:18 Today is the 27th.
00:20 So it's on today, Wednesday, the 27th at noon Eastern.
00:24 So if you're watching it before the article has yet to publish, if you're watching it
00:29 after it's already published.
00:32 And I'm going to just dance around the perimeter of the article.
00:37 But I feel it's important to address an issue real quick.
00:42 I got a text and I'm not texting email from a reader and a listener yesterday.
00:49 And this is what the person says is there his name is Nathan, Nathan F. He says, Hondo,
01:03 it's about time that you turned on Josh McDaniels and saw what the rest of us have all seen.
01:10 Appreciate all that you do, Nathan F. Okay, I want to address something.
01:15 Because I think this is really, really important.
01:19 I am not a fan.
01:21 I love football.
01:23 I care for people that I like and respect.
01:29 And I have friends in management, coaching or playing or any combination of the three
01:35 on every NFL team.
01:38 So I, I didn't, I have not turned on Josh McDaniels.
01:45 And I want to explain what I mean.
01:48 When Josh McDaniels got this job, he inherited a playoff team.
01:53 Now, the owner felt like Rich Versace and the team in place could not get them to where
02:03 he wanted to go.
02:05 Now, I said at the time, I said it on Raider Nation radio, I said it multiple places.
02:12 I'm on the record.
02:13 I'm a public figure.
02:14 I'm not hiding in my mother's basement.
02:19 And I said at the time, he was taking a very bold risk.
02:26 His players wanted Rich Versace.
02:29 They had just gone through Henry Ruggs, John Gruden and everything and somehow kept it
02:34 together.
02:35 But I also said it was his team and his decision.
02:40 Whatever he decided.
02:42 But I said this, go back and listen to the archives, that if he made the change, he was
02:51 going to have complete responsibility for what happened.
02:57 So they brought in the man that was the number one coaching candidate in the NFL that year.
03:02 Multiple teams had wanted him for multiple times.
03:05 Now I said at the time that when you look at the fact that everybody wanted him, it
03:12 was a good hire if you're trying to build long term stability and you're looking for
03:16 the least downside risk.
03:20 Now remember, I'd already made it clear I would have kept Rich, given him a three year
03:27 deal and said if you return to the playoffs in 2022, it automatically extends.
03:37 Give him a chance to prove himself.
03:39 He didn't want to do that.
03:40 And that's fine.
03:41 He's the owner.
03:42 That's his right.
03:45 But I also said he had to live with the consequences of it.
03:48 Now please stay with me because this is important as I lay out this timeline.
03:53 If you're Mark Davis, who admittedly doesn't know football like his dad, who's looking
03:58 to do stability, you just gave Gruden a 10 year deal, which is unheard of, but you're
04:03 trying to prove to your fan base, I may not know football like my dad, but I'm bringing
04:07 in the people.
04:08 I've got the resources.
04:09 Let's do it.
04:10 I applauded him for it.
04:13 So he goes and gets Josh McDaniels.
04:15 Now let me tell you a couple of things.
04:17 And I think this is really important.
04:19 I admitted and have said all along, Josh completely failed in Denver.
04:24 He was an egomaniac and he'd made a lot of decisions and alienated a lot of people.
04:30 I know people that played with him.
04:32 I know people that were in the organization at the time that played for him, excuse me.
04:36 And I know people in the media and they all had the same stories, but he got humbled and
04:43 he comes to some great family.
04:45 His father's one of the best coaches, high school coaches in American high school football
04:50 history.
04:51 He had a good lineage, went back and found himself, realizes I don't have to go act like
04:56 Bill Belichick.
05:00 And so I also said, because people were, look what he did to Indianapolis.
05:05 I know the details of what happened in Indianapolis because of people in Indianapolis.
05:11 I've been told off the record, so I can't repeat it.
05:14 And I told people I have zero issues with him not taking the job in Indianapolis.
05:19 I still feel that way today.
05:21 If I were Josh McDaniels, I would not have taken it either.
05:25 Now I understand you don't have any reason to believe me if you don't want to, but I
05:29 believe he had a viable reason and there's no reason to get into it, not to take the
05:35 job.
05:36 So he comes here because the owner wanted to make a change and people didn't like him
05:44 because of what happened in Denver.
05:46 Didn't like him because of what happened in Indianapolis.
05:48 I don't blame you for not liking it in Denver.
05:50 If you don't know the details, I can see where Indianapolis bothers you.
05:57 It does not bother me in the least bit.
06:01 But he comes and gets the job and he's given a job and told do X, Y, and Z.
06:06 So he sets out with Dave Ziegler to do X, Y, and Z.
06:10 Now let me just give you a couple of stats here.
06:13 In 21, the team he took over, they were 18th in the NFL scoring 21.8 points per game.
06:21 They felt like we need a better offense.
06:23 Let's go, let's make things happen.
06:25 Now I know for a fact, and I've reported this ad nauseum, even asked Josh about it in press
06:29 conference, it's a public thing.
06:32 One of the reasons, and he could have taken a lot of jobs, that he wanted this job was
06:40 because of his respect and admiration for Derek Carr.
06:45 So he gets here.
06:46 It doesn't work.
06:48 Derek Carr doesn't leave hating him.
06:51 He doesn't leave hating Derek Carr.
06:54 It didn't work.
06:56 They made some changes in year one.
06:59 They go out and get Devante Adams.
07:02 They go and get a Chandler Jones.
07:04 They go and add some other players, do a great job drafting Dylan Parham.
07:11 Some of the other drafts, picks, were not good.
07:13 I've already written a story on that.
07:15 I've already gone and out of the way.
07:17 They get rid of Alex Leatherwood.
07:19 It cost Mark Davis millions of dollars.
07:22 I mean, here you go.
07:25 Okay, we're going to throw millions of your dollars away.
07:28 Okay, you're trying to do what the owner asked you to do.
07:31 I have no problem.
07:33 So throughout this course of time, I'm not a fan.
07:36 I'm reporting facts.
07:37 I'm saying to you, I like Josh McDaniels.
07:40 He's a good dad.
07:41 He's a great husband.
07:42 He's got four Super Bowl rings.
07:45 We all know he was a terrific offensive coordinator.
07:49 And I said, based on what you saw in Denver, you can say not a good head coach.
07:54 But I know for a fact, because I know people who know him and are close to him, he had
07:58 changed.
07:59 His character wasn't like what it was in Denver.
08:04 I get all of that.
08:06 Have no issues with that.
08:08 People change.
08:10 And I said, we're going to judge him on what he does here in Vegas.
08:16 Mark Davis brought him in.
08:17 Now as a reporter, my job is to simply report truth.
08:22 It's not my job to flame.
08:24 I'm not going to go out and jump on a bandwagon, ripping them for Indianapolis.
08:28 What I know from the inside and not from him, what happened, I don't blame him.
08:33 I'm not going to do that.
08:36 Just like I'm not going to blame Mike Mayock for drafting a Henry Ruggs when all indications,
08:42 I know people who coached Henry, people who played with him, people, part of the Saban
08:48 organization.
08:49 He was a model citizen.
08:51 There was no signs of what happened.
08:55 And then it happens.
08:57 I blame Mayock and Gruden and everybody for Arnett.
09:02 100% Damon Arnett.
09:04 In fact, Damon Arnett was such a bad pick that I said, you know, that that alone deserves
09:10 people losing their job.
09:14 But John Gruden really liked Arnett.
09:16 Okay.
09:17 That's your coach.
09:18 You trust your coach.
09:20 So he comes in and in his first year, the team's going into Pittsburgh, still hoping
09:28 Derek can get it together and they lose.
09:32 I've already written about this in my article about the divorce with Derek.
09:36 They got to move on from Derek.
09:37 Okay.
09:38 I get that.
09:39 It didn't work.
09:40 I think both parties were at fault, but it didn't work.
09:45 And Josh needs a guy that runs his system.
09:48 They have every reason to believe Tom Brady's coming.
09:53 Not saying there was tampering, but I'm just going to tell you, because there are some
09:56 things that as of right now, I cannot report.
10:01 But well down the road, they make the move and then some things happen.
10:07 And Tom Brady isn't able to be a player for the Raiders.
10:14 They moved all in, which if you're not going to keep Derek Carr, they did the right thing.
10:21 If he got injured, his contract was guaranteed.
10:24 Now you can argue they're the ones that gave them the big deal.
10:28 Totally agree.
10:30 But they gave it because they believed in him.
10:34 So were they wrong in how they scouted them?
10:35 You certainly can make that argument and that's fair.
10:39 Remember, my job is to be fair, not to be a fan.
10:44 I don't blame them for what happened in Tom Brady's situation again, because I know what
10:48 happened like Indianapolis and that was nothing that Josh McDaniels or Dave Ziegler did wrong
10:53 or Mark Davis for that matter.
10:56 That was beyond their control.
10:59 So you go out and get your handpicked guy.
11:04 You get Jimmy Garoppolo.
11:06 This is your guy.
11:09 They own it.
11:10 You may remember I said before he was hired, you can go back and read it because everything
11:14 I put out there is out there.
11:17 I said I would not have made the move with Jimmy even though I do believe he's better
11:23 for the system because of his injury history.
11:27 You don't get rid of a Derek Carr for a Jimmy Garoppolo.
11:31 I said it.
11:32 I stand on it.
11:33 Now I also believe if Jimmy stayed healthy for 17 games, he was a better fit in the Josh
11:40 McDaniels system than Derek.
11:42 But I've said you don't have any evidence that he's going to stay healthy.
11:51 But as I wrote in the offseason, you give Josh McDaniels, Dave Ziegler the benefit of
11:58 a doubt.
11:59 This is their guy.
12:01 He's not yet injured and missed games.
12:03 And you allow them.
12:04 That's being fair.
12:05 That's my job.
12:06 I don't have the luxury of flaming.
12:09 I have opinions.
12:12 I have opinions.
12:13 That was a good move.
12:14 That wasn't a good move, etc.
12:16 Okay.
12:18 I have opinions on that.
12:21 But that's not my job unless I'm doing an opinion piece.
12:24 My job is to report to you and let you make the decision.
12:28 So they come into 2022, which I just said with Derek, they have 23.2 points a game.
12:36 They move from 18th in the year before he was here to 13th, five place move for point
12:44 and a half more a game.
12:46 Now remember, Josh was lauded among the NFL as an offensive genius.
12:55 And I reported that.
12:56 Amazing how people always said I call them that I referred to what people said.
13:03 And with four Super Bowl rings, I think that's a very fair analysis, especially since his
13:10 one year without Tom, he took Mac Jones to a Pro Bowl.
13:18 And I said all offseason, this team is better.
13:22 I 100% believe when you look at Marcus Epps, when you look at Robert Spalding, when you
13:31 look at the draft, Alex Van Rood, Jacoby Myers, totally think it's a better roster.
13:44 Totally think and you know what, I have no problem saying with Jimmy Garoppolo healthy,
13:48 this team should win nine games.
13:50 If it doesn't, it has horribly underperformed.
13:55 And that's on Josh.
13:56 Now let's go back.
13:58 You signed Derek Darren Waller to an extension.
14:02 Boom, you get rid of them.
14:04 I know there were some things that happened behind the scenes, but you did.
14:08 You signed Hunter Runfro to a big extension.
14:10 Now remember, these aren't deals they were stuck with.
14:16 This is deals they did and make no mistake, Dave Ziegler makes no move without the blessing
14:24 of Josh McDaniels.
14:27 That is a fact.
14:30 So you go out, you sign Waller, big deal.
14:36 You're able to get rid of them.
14:37 Fine.
14:38 You sign Hunter, big deal.
14:40 I have no problem with that.
14:43 I've said all along, I like Hunter.
14:46 I think Hunter's a great wide receiver.
14:49 No issues with that.
14:51 But then you come into 23 and through the first three games, and now we have a 20 game
14:56 sample size.
14:58 A 20 game sample size.
15:04 Now we have enough proof, enough evidence under Josh McDaniels to no longer go on potential,
15:12 but to start looking at reality.
15:18 Your quarterback has taken a lot of hits.
15:25 He's got more interceptions and touchdown passes.
15:29 That's on you.
15:31 That's on Josh.
15:33 And the offense has gone from 13th to 29th, averaging 15 points a game.
15:41 And you now have your guys.
15:44 Hunter's your guy.
15:45 You signed him and he ain't getting the ball.
15:48 It's ridiculous.
15:49 Now I understand Josh doesn't make the throws and I'm being told from people on the inside
15:54 that he's very upset with it.
15:56 But the reality is like Nick Saban said to me, and he's told others, if you're allowing
16:00 it, you're coaching it.
16:03 This is your guy.
16:06 Why isn't he fixing it after three games?
16:11 Fair question.
16:13 You're throwing away Mark Davis's money.
16:16 You go sign Chandler Jones.
16:18 He's your guy.
16:20 Now people around the NFL were stunned at the deal that Chandler got for a lot of reasons.
16:27 I'm not going to talk about off the field, although I have every reason to believe the
16:32 Raiders were well aware of concerns.
16:41 You don't know how many 30 year old, over 30 defensive linemen, 30 and older defensive
16:46 linemen are in their prime.
16:50 And they went and paid them the contract that they did.
16:54 But it was their guy.
16:56 They believed in him.
16:57 What did I say?
16:58 Same thing with Jimmy.
17:00 Okay.
17:01 Let them be proven right or proven wrong.
17:04 As a reporter, got nothing.
17:07 I knew Damon Arnett.
17:10 So I could comment there, but they're trying to build what they wanted to build and they
17:17 did.
17:18 There you go.
17:21 So now you come into 23.
17:24 When you inherited the team, they were 18th in scoring.
17:27 The next year they move up five places because you get them up 1.4 points per game to 13.
17:34 And now you got a roster full of your guys.
17:36 Now is this a deep roster?
17:38 No.
17:39 The way this rafting has stunk for years.
17:41 That's why I think it's a nine win team.
17:44 But you got a bunch of free agents and you turned a roster over.
17:49 You got an NFL returning NFL rushing leader who three games in can't even hardly be found.
17:58 You can't manufacture a running game.
18:02 And Josh was universally lauded in the running game, by the way.
18:06 You can't get a passing game going with your guy, with Devante, Jacoby and Hunter and Trey
18:15 Tucker.
18:19 You got one of the worst performing draft classes and I'm going to take Tyree out of
18:23 it because everybody along the NFL said they knew he was raw and was probably going to
18:29 his freshman year was going to be a lot of a red shirt.
18:32 A lot of people said it, but they still told me they would pick them.
18:34 So I'm being fair.
18:35 I'm going to take Tyree out of it.
18:42 She got an underperforming draft class.
18:46 Your offense, which you are the guy, is not performing.
18:51 You've got your players openly in an NFL PA survey complaining about the amount of hours
18:58 you keep them in the building.
19:02 Players don't mind that.
19:05 Players don't have a problem with working hard.
19:09 Players don't have a problem with the extra work if you're winning.
19:14 But see, you can only trust the process so long until the process don't work.
19:21 I'll give you an example.
19:24 My neighbor installed an invisible dog fence.
19:29 And the principle is they wear a collar and you put flags around the perimeter of your
19:35 yard.
19:38 And as they get closer to the edge of where the underground buried fence is, they hear
19:43 beeps.
19:44 I don't want to hear from people who think this is okay or not okay.
19:49 That's not the purpose of the point.
19:50 But as the dog gets closer to the edge, they get an electric shock.
19:53 As they get closer, the shock gets higher.
19:56 And the principle is, is that your dog will learn, don't get anywhere near the edge of
20:04 where the fence is.
20:06 Okay.
20:07 Now watch.
20:08 I'm a dad.
20:12 My youngest is 14 months.
20:14 I love Dexter Ernest Wayne.
20:16 He's my buddy.
20:17 My wife and I adopted him and he's a precious gift from the Lord.
20:23 Love him.
20:25 And he likes to crawl into my office and crawl into my lap and play.
20:31 He's just a little baby boy.
20:33 He loves to play.
20:34 He's all boy.
20:35 Loves to play with his football and Paw Patrol.
20:37 And when he comes, we'll do hugs and kisses together.
20:42 Now I want you to imagine if every time my son came to me, I spanked him, pushed him
20:49 away.
20:50 I ignored him.
20:52 How long until he says, "Hey, that guy wants nothing to do with me.
20:59 Follow me for a moment."
21:01 You have a bunch of very highly paid men, many of whom are very wealthy.
21:10 This is a testosterone filled violent league.
21:14 How long are they going to trust your process when your process ain't working?
21:21 We're 20 games in.
21:27 Josh McDaniels just had the worst coach game of his tenure.
21:33 You can go back and talk about New Orleans last year.
21:36 Bad game.
21:37 The loss to Jeff Saturday.
21:40 There's a bunch of losses last year.
21:42 I'm sorry.
21:43 Last year they had the reasonable excuse.
21:45 They didn't have their guys.
21:46 They didn't have X, Y, and Z.
21:48 They do this year.
21:50 And everybody's been healthy.
21:53 Well, except for Chanter.
21:58 That's your guy.
22:00 So in context, it was by far the worst.
22:07 And I reported to you all off season.
22:11 As a matter of fact, during the year last year.
22:15 Players haven't turned on Josh.
22:19 People get mad at me.
22:20 I had a guy give me death threats because I was lying.
22:24 Oh, you're lying.
22:26 And then when I had video of players saying they hadn't given up on him.
22:32 Well, they just had to say that.
22:41 But it was factual.
22:42 That's why I reported it.
22:44 This is not an excuse for me video.
22:47 I'm trying to bring you through the process to what Nathan said.
22:53 But now we're 20 games in and we have a legitimate sample size.
22:57 We're in year two with his guys.
22:59 It isn't like Jimmy had never been hurt and got hurt like Aaron Rodgers did.
23:07 That'd be a different story.
23:08 That's not the case.
23:10 He played the entirety.
23:14 And now the question is, you're out here trying to work your players almost more than any
23:20 other franchise.
23:21 Probably there's probably two or three others I'm told that work like the Raiders do.
23:27 But the process ain't working.
23:33 Things are not good.
23:36 And after 20 games, I can report to you, Josh just had his worst game.
23:43 I'm not calling for him to be fired.
23:46 I'm still the same guy that said he was an excellent, great man, terrific offensive coordinator,
23:53 terrific husband, son and father.
23:55 I like Josh McDaniels.
23:57 I don't like calling out people.
24:01 Who does if they're a sane human being?
24:05 But my job is to call spade a spade.
24:07 So when he's in the building process of which the arguments make sense, I'm going to give
24:13 him that leeway.
24:14 But now we're 20 games in.
24:16 I'm sorry.
24:17 Your worst game cannot be your 20th.
24:24 Now clearly you're not in a retooling.
24:29 And I don't even know that you can call it a rebuilding.
24:35 You go from 21.8 points a game when you get here, 18th in the league, in your first year
24:43 you're 23.2.
24:44 So you're up 1.4 points a game to 13th to 15 points a game.
24:54 With your guys, it's not a completed roster.
25:01 I get that.
25:02 That's a fair argument.
25:03 But going back, the guy you picked has more interceptions than touchdown passes.
25:14 He can't throw to a multi-million dollar slot receiver who's one of the best in the NFL
25:19 when you did it with Julian Edelman.
25:22 When you did it with multiple guys, you can't find this.
25:30 You can't get your quarterback to get the ball to Hunter Renfroe enough that he's a
25:34 threat and he's open multiple times.
25:40 Let's go back to the game.
25:45 You're down 16.
25:48 You get the ball, you drive.
25:51 Six minutes to go to the game, you're huddling.
25:56 And then your guys are walking to the line.
25:58 There is zero sense of urgency.
26:02 If you're thinking field goal, you don't take the points off the board a few minutes
26:08 ago.
26:10 But there's no sense of urgency.
26:11 You score, the defense does their job, they get you the ball back.
26:16 It's under two minutes, you're at the 12th, fourth and four.
26:23 And you kick a field goal.
26:26 Now remember, you're still going to need a touchdown to win.
26:33 But you kick a field goal.
26:35 Now are we forgetting that not only would you still need a touchdown, but if you fail,
26:50 you now have them pinned down deep at the goal line with your defense playing loud and
26:59 proud.
27:02 And you didn't have to even get a touchdown.
27:07 You're at the 12th, it's four yards.
27:10 You had plenty of opportunity for good stuff to happen.
27:15 My buddy Vic Taffer from the Athletic asked Josh McDaniels, does that mean you don't trust
27:18 your offense?
27:20 He totally disagreed.
27:22 I agree with Vic.
27:24 100%.
27:26 And talking to people around the league, they agreed with Vic.
27:31 That's a...
27:35 My article is going to get into a lot of things.
27:38 But I want to make this clear.
27:40 I don't appreciate the narrative that I've turned on anybody.
27:44 This isn't personal.
27:46 It's my job.
27:47 And my job is to...
27:51 I'm not going to just go negative because that's a lot of clicks.
27:56 If I think there's a legitimate argument from the regime, I'm going to present it and I'm
28:00 going to say that that makes sense to me.
28:03 At the same time, when you can't make sense of it, that's got to be called out.
28:13 I've covered a ton of coaches.
28:19 Some I couldn't stand as human beings.
28:23 But my job wasn't to let what I thought of them as a human being interfere with my coverage.
28:32 I like Josh McDaniels.
28:37 He is an honorable husband, father, son, and friend.
28:45 He is one of the best offensive coordinators that the NFL has ever had.
28:51 The jury, if it had to decide today, would say he is not a good football coach, head
28:56 football coach.
28:58 He isn't fired.
28:59 I'm not calling for him to be fired.
29:01 We're only three games into the season.
29:03 That's stupidity.
29:08 There's nobody you're going to give the internship to and you still want your players to develop
29:14 even if you plan on getting rid of them.
29:17 So you let them coach out.
29:19 I'm going to say this.
29:22 It's not personal.
29:24 Go to a restaurant and you don't like the food doesn't mean that you think the chef
29:36 is a bad person.
29:38 He may or may not be.
29:39 It has nothing to do with him.
29:40 It has everything to do with the food.
29:43 And what Raider Nation has been getting fed after 20 games is terrible.
29:53 These fans, I don't remember who put it, so it was not me, but somebody put a picture
30:00 on Twitter of a fan holding a sign that said, "We deserve better."
30:10 And they're right.
30:11 I don't want to hear anyone complain about the crowds.
30:20 If you're a ticket holder and you want to sell your ticket based on the product that
30:25 you just saw, I can't blame you.
30:30 It was terrible.
30:34 Now OptiStats gave this stat out.
30:42 Since 1994 when the NFL put in the two point conversion, the Raiders are the only team
30:52 in the last three minutes or less in a game down by exactly eight points to go for two.
31:08 It is one thing to lose a football game in the NFL.
31:12 Everybody's good.
31:13 There's no shame in that.
31:17 But the Raiders lost on Sunday because the Raiders beat themselves.
31:26 Let's not pretend here.
31:30 The Pittsburgh Steelers didn't come in and beat the Raiders.
31:34 The Raiders beat the Raiders.
31:38 Bad mistakes, dumb turnovers, execution failures.
31:42 That's on players.
31:44 Poaching blunders.
31:48 And then I don't even know a word stronger than blunders that I'm willing to say in your
31:57 20 games in.
32:01 Josh McDaniels has a lot bigger problem on his hands than whether or not he loses to
32:09 the Chargers this weekend.
32:12 I would suggest you read my article.
32:15 It's not personal.
32:17 I like him.
32:19 It's just the facts.
32:22 And the facts are the Raiders are failing.
32:29 I'm Hondo Carpenter from Sports Illustrated's Fan Nation, Las Vegas Raiders Insider Podcast,
32:35 part of the Fans First Sports Network.
32:36 Thank you for joining us, everybody.
32:38 Please check out our article.
32:39 Hope you have a great night.
32:40 God bless you.
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