Stock Vs. Stroked Horsepower Test!
Increasing engine displacement with a stroker kit is a proven way to get more horsepower and torque
Transcript
00:00 There is no replacement for displacement,
00:02 but what's it gonna cost you
00:03 and what's it really worth in power?
00:05 We're gonna find out here with a shootout
00:07 of that 360 cubic inch Stalker
00:10 and that 410 cubic inch Stroker.
00:13 (dramatic music)
00:17 (dramatic music)
00:29 (dramatic music)
00:32 This is Engine Masters presented by AMSOIL
00:37 and sponsored by Mr. Gasket and Earl's Vapor Guard Hose.
00:41 This time we're gonna answer the question
00:43 for everybody sitting around at home going,
00:45 man, is it worth it for me to buy the Stroker kit
00:48 for my engine or should I just leave the displacement stock?
00:51 Now, obviously bigger engines are gonna make more power,
00:53 but you're gonna find out here exactly by how much,
00:56 what it's gonna do to the curve,
00:57 and we're gonna geek out on all sorts
00:59 of engine guy technical information.
01:01 The way we're gonna do that
01:02 is by comparing two small block Chryslers,
01:05 one at a stock 360 cubic inches,
01:08 and this one, a Stroker at 410 cubic inches.
01:12 Now, these engines are the Chrysler LA Series V8.
01:16 They introduced them in 1964
01:18 and they ran them in trucks all the way to 1991.
01:21 And actually the Magnum engine that came after that
01:23 through 2003 is really similar.
01:25 So this is a very common engine.
01:27 The meat of this one is a Blueprint engines crate motor.
01:30 It comes as a long block with a front cover and an oil pan.
01:33 It's about six grand.
01:34 It has a crazy warranty, 30 months, 50,000 miles.
01:37 I think that's really cool.
01:38 Now, what's important for this test
01:40 is the bottom end of this engine.
01:42 It started out as a 360 or a 5.9 liter motor,
01:46 but we've changed the crankshaft in it, or Blueprint did.
01:49 Instead of the stock 3.58 inch stroke,
01:53 it has a four inch stroke.
01:55 Now the four in it has been overboard 40,000th of an inch.
01:58 So it's 4.040.
02:00 Combine that with a four inch stroke.
02:01 This is 410 cubic inches.
02:04 Your classic Stroker package.
02:06 Here's how we've dressed it out.
02:08 We've got our 850 Holley XP up top,
02:10 dual plane intake manifold.
02:11 It's an Edelbrock RPM air gap.
02:13 The cylinder heads are also from Edelbrock.
02:15 These are their stock replacement heads,
02:17 170 CC intake runner.
02:19 The camshaft is a hydraulic flat tappet.
02:22 The degrees of duration at 50,000th tappet lift,
02:25 241 and 247.
02:27 The lift on both the intake and exhaust lobes is 545,
02:30 and it's got 110 degree lobe separation angle.
02:33 The compression ratio is advertised at 10.1 to one,
02:37 and the headers we've got on it are from TTI Exhaust,
02:40 which in my opinion, makes the best fitting Mopar headers.
02:43 These are for an E-body.
02:44 They're a step from a one and five eighths inch tube
02:47 to a one and three quarter inch tube.
02:49 So that's how we've got this thing set up.
02:50 Now we're gonna roll this thing into the dyno,
02:52 sauce it up with some AMSOIL,
02:54 and find out exactly how much power we can make
02:56 with a 410 cubic inch Mopar small block.
03:00 Okay, oil time.
03:01 Now we're doing a direct comparison
03:02 of the 410 versus the 360,
03:04 so we've got to run the same juice in both of them,
03:07 so that we've got the same viscosity,
03:09 and the same reaction to the temperatures
03:11 that we're running the thing at.
03:12 'Cause oil pressure and the oil viscosity,
03:16 and composition can affect horsepower.
03:18 So we're gonna be using this Dominator 1030 AMSOIL.
03:22 Of course, we will have to break in the 360,
03:25 because the camshaft and that's brand new,
03:27 so we'll be using break-in oil in that.
03:29 The 410 has run before, and so I can go ahead right now,
03:33 sauce it up with the Dominator 1030.
03:36 And hopefully not spill on my brand new TTI headers
03:40 and ruin the coating.
03:41 Don't you hate that when you fry oil
03:43 on your brand new header coating?
03:45 First time out, I hate that.
03:48 Maybe I need a funnel.
03:51 Can't we invest in a funnel?
03:53 (whooshing)
03:55 All right, we got the 410 hung on the dyno.
03:58 We've run this thing before,
03:59 we kind of know what's gonna happen,
04:00 but for your edification, fire it up.
04:03 Let's put down a curve.
04:04 (dramatic music)
04:08 (whirring)
04:13 (engine revving)
04:18 (engine revving)
04:21 And it repeats exactly where we expected it to be.
04:31 The polygraph says 479.8 pound feet of torque at 4,000,
04:36 and the peak horsepower, 431 at 5,500,
04:42 which is kind of low for an engine
04:44 with a 241, 247 duration cam.
04:47 - Yeah, it's a big motor with a small head,
04:49 so it's just gonna kind of cripple it
04:51 when it comes to engine speed.
04:53 - Let's say it was a Chevy
04:54 and it had some great cylinder head on it,
04:57 like a 227 or something.
04:58 What RPM would a 241, 247 at 50 cam peak at?
05:02 - 64, 60.
05:04 - Yeah, it'd be well over 6,000.
05:05 - Right, so this thing is basically killing 800 RPM
05:09 because of airflow.
05:10 - It's got a pretty broad power band, it's just low.
05:13 - Right.
05:14 - And it's making a reasonable amount of torque.
05:16 I mean, for the cubic inches it is,
05:18 480 pound feet's a good number.
05:19 It just doesn't carry at the top.
05:21 I think it's just crippled by that small head.
05:23 - Theoretically, the 360 is going to peak
05:26 at a higher RPM, right,
05:27 with the same camshaft at smaller displacement?
05:30 - That would be the thought process,
05:31 but this is really kind of a fun test
05:33 because everybody asks that question,
05:35 and we've all talked about it a whole bunch,
05:37 but it's kind of cool.
05:38 I mean, I think we maybe are on the same page
05:39 when it comes to our guess.
05:41 This is a cool way to prove it
05:42 and actually see A versus B.
05:44 I think it's going to make the exact same horsepower
05:47 because that's the limit of what this intake head
05:50 and cam can do.
05:52 And so it'll make the same power at a higher RPM
05:54 because a given horsepower
05:56 is a given amount of air displacement,
05:59 which you can gain either through cylinder displacement
06:02 or RPM.
06:03 - Or engine speed.
06:03 - Right.
06:04 - It's pumping faster.
06:05 - But that'll make more torque.
06:06 - Yeah.
06:07 - Yeah, oh, absolutely.
06:08 - So we are all on the same page.
06:09 - Let's hang the 360.
06:11 That was the power of our Blueprint 410 stroker,
06:14 and now the underdog, the 360 cubic inch Stalker.
06:18 You actually know this engine.
06:20 It was on Engine Masters once before,
06:22 and it's the one that Steve Roulet called
06:24 the worst motor ever tested at West Tech Performance.
06:27 We pulled it out of a 75 Dodge truck
06:30 on an episode of Roadkill Garage on Motor Trend On Demand,
06:32 and it was a filthy mess when we put it on the dyno
06:35 and tested it.
06:36 Then we bolt some speed parts on it,
06:38 and it was just a slightly more powerful, filthy mess.
06:40 We had to rebuild it.
06:42 And so Dulcich has gone through this thing top to bottom.
06:45 And when he did, he set it up for this comparison
06:47 using a bunch of parts that are identical
06:50 to what's on that 410 stroker.
06:52 But it's way smaller.
06:53 It's not 410 cubic inches.
06:55 It's 360.
06:57 Actually, it's got a 40 thousandths of an inch overbore,
07:00 so it's a 367 cubic inch engine.
07:03 But the crankshaft is stock with a 3.58 inch stroke.
07:07 Now, our hope and dream is this is gonna make
07:10 a little bit more horsepower than the 410.
07:12 Because in theory, if you take the same camshaft
07:15 and put it in two engines, one of them bigger
07:18 and one of them smaller,
07:19 the smaller displacement engine will run to a higher RPM
07:22 with that same camshaft.
07:24 Now, if it does that,
07:25 and if the cylinder heads can support the flow,
07:27 it could make just a little bit more horsepower.
07:30 We really have no hope that it's gonna make more torque.
07:33 But there's only one way to find out.
07:35 The polygraph that we call the Superflow Dyno.
07:38 Let's roll this thing in there right now.
07:40 (upbeat music)
07:42 How long does it take four guys to swap a dyno engine
07:48 that's exactly the same?
07:50 - How long does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop?
07:53 (upbeat music)
07:55 I wanted to put this together for Fry Burger.
08:03 It's just a basic 360,
08:05 but I wanted it to be really, really good.
08:07 It's small displacement, which means the RPM range
08:10 with a moderate head like the Edelbrock
08:11 will be higher than it would be with a gigantic engine.
08:14 Built to perfection, this thing could make a lot of power.
08:17 Hopefully it'll beat the other engine.
08:19 - What are you doing?
08:23 - Plug wires.
08:24 - Messing up the firing order?
08:25 - No, I got them in order.
08:27 Probably.
08:28 - I think people don't know what the Vapor Guard is.
08:32 - Vapor Guard?
08:33 - The Earl's Vapor Guard.
08:34 This is our sponsor, Earl's.
08:36 You know, they normally make braided line
08:37 and stuff like that,
08:38 but because we whined and moaned so much
08:41 about how the Obama gas has way too much ethanol in it
08:45 and it kills rubber hose and everything,
08:47 this is their new impervious to
08:50 government regulated gasoline kind of hose.
08:53 Seriously, California gas and anything with ethanol in it
08:55 deteriorates rubber hose,
08:56 and so these are designed not to do that.
08:58 This is not about should I buy this or that?
09:01 This is really about engine theory and how they work,
09:04 and the whole thing about airflow through an engine,
09:06 how it makes horsepower.
09:07 In theory, this should make peak horsepower at a higher RPM
09:10 'cause it's smaller with the same cam
09:12 and the same airflow through the head.
09:14 - And the guy that doesn't care anymore
09:15 other than to which intake manifold should I buy,
09:17 he'll find this entertaining,
09:19 but it won't be as entertaining to the guy
09:20 who really loves building engines
09:22 and wants to understand how they work
09:23 and what changes and happens.
09:25 That's what's cool 'cause even I love this test.
09:26 - I know.
09:27 Even you.
09:28 You've seen it all.
09:29 - I've seen hundreds of them, thousands of them.
09:30 - You've never seen this though.
09:31 - No, not AB.
09:32 I mean, we've done this before with some Chevrolet stuff
09:34 with varying results, I have to say.
09:36 - But have you ever done it with exactly the same parts?
09:39 Everything?
09:40 - Yes.
09:41 - Same day?
09:42 - This one's on.
09:43 - Not the same day.
09:43 - Okay.
09:44 - All right, this is the first.
09:45 Fire it up.
09:46 (engine revving)
09:49 (engine revving)
09:51 - Are you happy?
10:12 - Yeah.
10:13 - That wasn't bad.
10:14 - All right.
10:15 - So, let's run with that.
10:16 Here's what we just did.
10:18 443.4 pound feet of torque at 4,200 RPM
10:23 and it made 422.5 horsepower at 5,800 RPM.
10:28 In the end, we kind of wished
10:31 that this was a little bit higher.
10:31 We thought it could make more horsepower,
10:33 but the real story is this compared
10:36 to that 410 cubic inch engine.
10:38 Can you call that up on the graph?
10:40 So, look at that.
10:42 What, you really want to do 360 to win?
10:45 You knew that was never gonna happen.
10:46 - Oh man, yeah, I guess you're right.
10:48 - But this is a slaughter.
10:49 This red line is the 410 cubic inch small block.
10:52 The black lines are the 360.
10:56 The 410 obviously makes a ton more torque
10:58 because of displacement, longer stroke, everything else.
11:01 We did the math and looked at torque per cubic inch
11:04 and in fact, the 360 is better at specific torque output.
11:08 It made 1.19 pound feet per cubic inch,
11:13 whereas the 410 made 1.168.
11:15 So if you want to talk efficiency,
11:17 the 360 was actually a little bit better.
11:20 Up in the horsepower, that's where we really started
11:22 to argue it out with each other.
11:24 - It did exactly what it was supposed to do, really.
11:26 - Not as dramatically as I expected.
11:29 Basically, the difference in horsepower up at the top
11:31 is only eight and a half horsepower
11:33 between the 410 and the 360,
11:35 obviously with the 410 making more power.
11:38 But what's interesting is first of all,
11:41 the fact that the gap in the curves narrows
11:45 as the RPM gets higher sort of proves our theory
11:47 about how the small block is capable,
11:50 likes more RPM with that camshaft
11:53 than the bigger small block.
11:55 - I think this morning we all kind of had hoped
11:58 that the 360 would make as much power.
12:01 - We did, or just a hair more.
12:02 - Yeah, and so when it was eight down,
12:04 it was like, wait, what's wrong?
12:05 - Steve, I think you have an unrealistic expectation
12:09 coming into this.
12:09 (laughing)
12:10 That's what thrills you.
12:11 - Why would I have ever argued with the motor guy?
12:13 - That threw a curve on the whole operation today.
12:16 - The whole day.
12:16 - Yeah, I know, I caused it.
12:18 - What happened was what we predicted
12:20 about the greater RPM with the small block was true.
12:22 It just wasn't as dramatic as I thought it would be.
12:25 The most telling thing is here at the very, very top.
12:28 If you want to zero in on that part right there.
12:30 - It's pretty interesting, really.
12:32 - It is.
12:32 Look how as the 410 is rolling over,
12:36 the 360 is carrying on.
12:37 Our theory here is that this could be friction related
12:41 because the piston speed of a four inch stroke
12:44 is way higher than it is for a 3.58 inch stroke in the 360.
12:49 - Yeah, when you look at some of the race engines,
12:50 sometimes a smaller engine will make
12:52 even a bit more than a big engine.
12:54 Obviously, again, not as much torque,
12:55 but the friction really does start to become a factor,
12:57 particularly as the engine speed goes up.
12:59 - So let's bring this back to why you care.
13:02 This is why you care.
13:04 'Cause none of this philosophy means anything whatsoever
13:06 other than the engine geeking out.
13:08 The fact is that big stroker motor makes so much more torque
13:13 there's no replacement for displacement.
13:14 - Which one burns rubber better?
13:16 - Let's see what you're buying here is smoke.
13:17 - Yeah.
13:18 - Yeah, that's right.
13:19 - Not smoke and mirrors, just smoke.
13:21 - You're buying tire smoke.
13:22 That's what that's all about right there.
13:24 - Sorry your 360 didn't, you know.
13:26 - Well, it's your 360 anyway.
13:27 (laughing)
13:29 - How did that all of a sudden become my fault?
13:31 - The joke's on you at the end
13:32 because it's for your challenger.
13:33 - I built it, but it's your motor.
13:35 (laughing)
13:38 (whooshing)
13:40 - The 410 cubic inch engine makes so much more area
13:45 under the power curve that your 360 can just go home.
13:50 I'm sorry.
13:51 And here's the thing about it.
13:52 - I'm getting scolded here.
13:53 - You're about to get scolded.
13:54 Remember when we built this engine,
13:56 you and I collectively were like, let's keep it simple.
13:58 Let's just build a 360.
14:00 Let's not do a stroker.
14:01 It's gonna be more expensive.
14:02 I think that's wrong.
14:03 You bore an engine, you have to buy pistons.
14:05 Pistons are the same price,
14:06 whether it's a stroker or regular.
14:07 - Right.
14:08 - And on the connecting rods in this thing,
14:10 didn't we get scats basically because the price of that
14:12 versus reconditioning stockers was negligible?
14:15 - Yeah, plus we wanted internal balance, so.
14:17 - Right, but then you have to machine the crank
14:19 and put Mallory in it in order to balance it.
14:21 So by the time we did all of that,
14:23 we spent the same as a stroker kit.
14:26 Literally, I looked at JEGS,
14:28 a stroker crank for a 410 Mopar is 337 bucks
14:33 for a cast crank.
14:35 - Oh man, you're shaming me now.
14:37 - Literally, the difference in price,
14:38 this might be $50 more for the bottom end.
14:41 And that is the cheapest massive chunk of power
14:45 you'll ever see.
14:46 - Yeah, but mine's prettier.
14:47 - It does look way better.
14:48 - Yeah, so give me that.
14:50 - You did a good job, Dolan.
14:51 - Thanks.
14:52 - So that's really the end of it, man.
14:53 There is no replacement for displacement.
14:55 We wished that this thing was gonna RPM
14:58 and sort of make the theory look really big
15:01 and maybe even make a little bit more power.
15:02 It just wasn't in the cards.
15:03 - No, I mean, you're delusional.
15:04 A 410 is gonna beat a 360 or a 367 every single time.
15:08 - Why'd we even do this episode?
15:10 - To prove it.
15:11 - We'll ask ourselves that again next time,
15:14 as we do every time on Engine Masters,
15:16 presented by AMSOIL and sponsored by Mr. Gasket
15:20 and Earl's Vapor Guard.
15:21 (upbeat music)
15:24 - Air?
15:32 Oh, right, like the, how's that?
15:36 - Nailed it.
15:36 - Am I gorgeous?
15:39 - Straighten out your hair a little bit.
15:41 - Is it good?
15:42 Wait, how's that?
15:44 Did I become cool?
15:47 Wait, am I cool now?
15:49 - I won't make the joke.
15:51 - Am I cool now?
15:52 - Yeah, yeah, you're cool.
15:53 (laughing)
15:55 - Second take on the oil pour.
16:01 - Travis said more energy.
16:02 - All right.
16:03 - Give him more energy.
16:05 - Rotate, try to be just...
16:07 Great, and action.
16:10 - It's oil time!
16:12 - Not that much energy?
16:14 (laughing)