Gonzaga Bulldogs assistant coach Brian Michaelson discusses the 2023-24 Zags, potential lineups and the college landscape as a whole with former All-Americans Dan Dickau and Adam Morrison.
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00:00 (upbeat music)
00:02 - Gonzaga Nation, we are here with Talking Zags,
00:09 season three with your hosts, myself, Dan Dickow,
00:12 and Adam Morrison.
00:13 We're gonna bring on some guests this year,
00:16 and you know what?
00:18 We're gonna let Adam intro our guests today,
00:20 'cause you guys were teammates,
00:22 so plenty of time chatting about different basketball things,
00:24 so go for it.
00:26 - Brian Michelson, the wonderful assistant for Gonzaga.
00:30 Associate head coach, right?
00:31 - I don't know about that, but longest tenured.
00:34 - Yes, one of my favorite teammates of all time,
00:36 not just saying that 'cause he's here,
00:38 'cause he helped me out a lot.
00:39 Great basketball mind, it's good to have him in.
00:41 We got a lot of questions for him, I think.
00:45 - Yeah, we're gonna have a lot of different topics
00:47 that we go over over the course of the day.
00:49 You and I chatted about a number of things
00:51 when we recorded our first episode,
00:52 but the biggest thing to me
00:54 is season's right around the corner.
00:57 You're about, what, two and a half,
00:59 three weeks into practices, Brian.
01:01 You guys have already had the craziness
01:02 in the Kennel Scrimmage.
01:04 At what point do you see a switch in practice
01:07 from we're excited to be here
01:09 to I'm tired of playing against you?
01:12 - I think we've hit that point,
01:14 and that's always hard is to battle through this in October.
01:16 You get that first little bit,
01:18 and you touched on it, it's the excitement.
01:20 We're excited to be here,
01:21 it's exciting to be back in the gym.
01:23 Then you get to this point,
01:25 probably where we are a little bit now,
01:27 where the coaches are really pushing.
01:29 We see the areas that we need to build on.
01:31 It's still really focused on ourselves.
01:33 It's way too far out to start to prepare for opponents.
01:36 So the coaches are really pushing for some improvements
01:41 and some gains that we know that we had to be made.
01:44 And then you guys have been on the other side
01:46 for a long time as players, obviously NBA veterans,
01:48 that the guys are ready for games.
01:51 And it's sometimes hard for coaches to always remember that.
01:54 We're beating on each other every day.
01:56 So I think we've definitely reached that point.
01:58 And then the third part of that cycle
02:00 is you get close enough to games
02:01 and you start preparing for opponents.
02:03 And I think that kind of helps break that flow.
02:07 But definitely right now,
02:08 it's all about getting better every day with the guys,
02:10 putting in what we need to on both sides of the ball,
02:13 and how do we keep them driven to do that
02:15 when it is just facing each other every day.
02:18 - You guys finally got a chance
02:19 to probably break down film as a team,
02:21 as well as individually from the craziness
02:23 where it's kind of with fans in there.
02:26 How important is that, especially for young guys?
02:29 We talked about that,
02:30 just a chance to get in front of somebody new.
02:33 - Yeah, there's two parts to that, I think,
02:37 and you touched on both of them.
02:38 The film part is really important,
02:40 really the first time we had live action,
02:42 especially this year with the way the calendar was,
02:44 we had had almost no practices before craziness.
02:48 So really early in the season,
02:50 it was good to see some of the things on film,
02:52 good to see some different lineups play together.
02:53 Some of those things from a coaching standpoint were nice,
02:56 but every bit as important to me in that,
02:59 and you touched on it, was getting in front of the crowd.
03:01 And I don't care if that's just the little skill challenges,
03:04 the three-point shootout, the actual live action,
03:07 I think that's really important,
03:10 both kind of internally to see how guys respond to it,
03:12 but also now everybody's got a little bit
03:15 out of the system.
03:16 Obviously, we get an exhibition too to kind of further that,
03:19 but I think that those are really important,
03:21 especially with all the new bodies, right?
03:23 Like Nolan's done it, Anton's done it,
03:26 Ben Gregg has some experience, but that's it.
03:28 That's put on a guns, a uniform.
03:29 So it was really good to get those guys
03:31 out in front of everybody.
03:32 - So with all the new faces this year,
03:36 as a coaching staff,
03:37 and I know you're not going to tip your hand
03:39 and we're not asking you to,
03:40 but like, this is one of the first years,
03:43 I think that you guys are probably going to play
03:45 10 guys right away,
03:46 and it's going to kind of will down to seven, eight,
03:49 like you normally do.
03:50 But watching the craziness in the kennel
03:52 and just seeing all the transfer portal,
03:54 you know, then having Dusty come in, high-level recruits,
03:57 it looks like 10, 11 guys can legitimately play
04:00 in this offense.
04:01 How big of a challenge is that going to be
04:04 to keep guys happy and not in a bad way?
04:07 And then also changing your style a little bit
04:10 from the last three, four years
04:12 with Drew being the centerpiece in the office.
04:14 I know you guys always play fast,
04:16 but throwing it into somebody
04:17 and then playing out of double team coverages
04:19 and how teams guard them.
04:20 So to me, it looks like you guys have a lot of
04:23 offensive firepower,
04:25 but it's totally different from the last four years.
04:27 - Yeah, I mean, I would agree with all that.
04:29 It is probably a little more balanced
04:32 and a lot more new guys than we had.
04:34 So I agree, and that's part of what we're going through
04:36 at practice every day is it's not clearly,
04:39 here's our top seven or here's our top eight,
04:42 and just roll with that,
04:43 and everybody else kind of is over here.
04:45 It is really equal.
04:47 And there are days that a couple guys might look better
04:50 and then the next day that might flip.
04:51 So right now the rotation is much more open.
04:54 It is much deeper, I think, than it's been.
04:57 And I also think that speaks to the balance
04:58 of talent that we have.
05:00 You know, and then to kind of continue that,
05:02 you touched on it,
05:03 offensively, I think it's a really unselfish group.
05:05 I do think it has firepower.
05:07 I think we can score the ball from a lot of different spots
05:10 in a lot of different ways,
05:12 but it is going to be a different look.
05:14 Drew was as good as player that's ever played here.
05:17 I mean, obviously what he was able to do
05:20 in terms of the games that he helped us win,
05:22 in terms of the scoring,
05:23 but also I think people really underestimated
05:25 what a good facilitator he is.
05:26 When we threw it in, he could score it,
05:29 but if that was taken away,
05:31 he made really, really good passes
05:33 that helped keep the offense flowing.
05:35 So, you know, I do think that'll be a little bit different.
05:37 Obviously, you know, Graham can really score inside.
05:40 Taun took steps as a scorer at the end of last year.
05:43 Braden Huff is a very, very good young scorer,
05:45 but he's a freshman that hasn't played in a game.
05:47 So we still are going to play through that post-up,
05:50 but probably not to the extent
05:52 and not with the efficiency of a Drew Timmy,
05:54 which is no knock on the current guys.
05:56 It's just there's only one Drew Timmy,
05:58 and he was really special,
05:59 and, you know, you wish these eras could go on forever,
06:02 just like Dan's, right, just like you.
06:04 I mean, Drew goes in that list of these guys
06:06 that were all-Americans, that were great players here,
06:09 and at the end of those areas,
06:10 you always got to kind of readjust, you know.
06:12 The teams after Dan probably looked a little different.
06:15 Definitely right after you,
06:16 that next year was a different group.
06:19 You and JP were so dominant,
06:21 and that group kind of had to find a way
06:23 to do it differently,
06:24 and I think that'll be a challenge with this group,
06:26 but I do love how unselfish they are.
06:28 I do love that we have multiple, multiple guys that can score,
06:31 and I do think we're going to have the ability
06:33 to play really, really fast.
06:35 -I want to touch on the Graham E.K.
06:37 because, you know, he didn't play in the craziness
06:40 in the kennel, but from my perspective,
06:43 it's like he's kind of a known commodity.
06:46 He scored almost 20 and 10 at Wyoming.
06:50 There's been a foot issue that he's getting healthy from.
06:53 There's no need to push it.
06:55 What's the philosophy as far as you know what --
06:59 you have an idea what he's going to provide,
07:01 but just bring him along at the right pace.
07:03 -You hit it right there, and obviously you guys are different
07:06 because you guys played at the highest level for a long time.
07:08 You guys get that, right?
07:09 Like, 20 and 10 in the college game
07:12 is really, really hard to do,
07:13 and you look back at that two years ago with him and Drew,
07:16 and you look at their numbers,
07:17 and it's actually kind of eerie how similar they were.
07:20 He has proven.
07:22 Obviously now he's missed some time.
07:23 There's some rust he's got to get off,
07:24 but he's done it at this level,
07:26 and he's done it against high-level guys,
07:28 and so it's about that balance.
07:30 There's no point to playing him in an open scrimmage
07:34 in early October that's going to impact
07:37 the long run of the season,
07:38 so we're really happy with where he's at,
07:41 what he's been doing with us on a daily basis,
07:44 and what he's building back into, how he's feeling,
07:48 and then it's obviously wish everyone
07:51 was fully healthy at all times,
07:52 but really happy with where he's at,
07:55 but you also touched on the provenness of him.
07:58 The other side of that that's been really good
08:00 is it's increased the reps for Ben and Brayden,
08:02 and I think they've had really good off-seasons
08:06 because they've just had an extra share of the reps,
08:08 and then obviously once we get rolling with games
08:11 and Graham's fully ready,
08:13 it'll really increase our versatility
08:15 and help us just have such an experienced guy in there.
08:19 - I'm curious about the backcourt.
08:20 I think it's a situation,
08:23 obviously this is not to put a lot of pressure
08:24 on the backcourt, but it's like when Nigel
08:26 and Josh Perkins shared the ball-handling ability,
08:29 so with Ryan Emhard and Nolan Hickman
08:31 taking that responsibility.
08:33 I'm curious your thoughts on,
08:37 is that gonna help Nolan's ability to score the ball?
08:40 'Cause I think he's a really good scorer,
08:41 but he was a facilitator the last couple years,
08:45 and then are you guys gonna try to play small,
08:47 maybe play with Dusty and that third ball handler?
08:51 I know Steele can ball-hand, but you know what I mean,
08:53 where you can kind of get up the floor
08:55 and maybe play four-round one, five out even?
08:58 Are you gonna change that style a little bit?
08:59 - Yeah, I think we're gonna have to do a good job
09:02 with our styles.
09:03 You're obviously gonna see Nolan and Ryan a ton together.
09:07 And right now they're playing awesome together,
09:09 they're both really talented players,
09:11 they're really unselfish, and as you guys know,
09:13 a lot of our best teams here have had two ball handlers.
09:16 You obviously played with Blake, who was great,
09:19 and then that kind of gave way to Derek was young
09:21 and Blake was there when you started,
09:23 and then Pargo kind of came in with Derek.
09:26 A lot of our great teams here
09:27 have had those multiple ball handlers.
09:29 Going back to Santans, Lillen Hall, right?
09:31 The first time, the first team.
09:32 So we're really, really comfortable with those two.
09:34 They're gonna play a lot, and it is nice,
09:37 'cause Nolan is a really good scorer,
09:39 he's a very good shooter, he takes great care of the ball,
09:42 and Nimhard can score.
09:44 He had 30 in an NCAA tournament game,
09:46 but he's also really, really good at facilitating.
09:49 He's a big driver of our pace.
09:51 So I think those two will be great together.
09:53 And then from there, there are gonna be lineups
09:55 where Dusty's out there with those two.
09:57 And obviously Dusty provides some shooting
09:59 and some ball handling.
10:00 Now you got a group that can really handle the ball,
10:02 but you also see lineups out there with June and with Steele.
10:06 So I think we'll really be able
10:07 to mix and match those guards.
10:09 And then offensively,
10:10 we probably can have some different looks.
10:12 Obviously Graham, we just talked about,
10:13 is an elite back to the basket scorer.
10:16 We have to utilize that,
10:18 and we're gonna play through him a ton this year.
10:21 But Brayden Huff and Ben do have different skill sets.
10:24 The best thing they do is shoot,
10:25 and they can both really, really shoot it.
10:28 And they've improved their postgame,
10:29 they're very capable in there.
10:31 I've been happy with how they've been scoring
10:33 in the post and practice,
10:34 but they can really, really stretch the defense.
10:36 And that's something that we really haven't had
10:40 in a handful of years probably,
10:41 is a true stretch five.
10:44 So that will kind of stylistically, I think,
10:46 allow us to do some unique things
10:48 and give us some different looks based on lineups.
10:50 - I think it's gonna be fascinating early
10:54 to watch who gets the nod at the three.
10:56 I think there's a number of different ways
10:58 you can go and share your thoughts in regards to,
11:01 to Dusty Stromer, I think his upside is tremendous.
11:04 I think he's got a chance to score it.
11:06 What I've seen, he can put the ball on the deck enough.
11:08 And you got a freshman, so there's a lot of room to grow.
11:11 June, I think is physically maybe superior at this moment,
11:16 but there's that adjustment
11:18 from international basketball to college hoops.
11:20 Steele's a great shooter.
11:22 He's proven, at least by being a Big Sky Player of the Year.
11:25 But the one interesting note that I see is,
11:29 is there any thought to Anton playing
11:31 at the three at times this year?
11:33 - Yeah, I think to kind of touch on those first three,
11:36 I think you were pretty accurate in your assessment
11:38 and it's been really even in the preseason.
11:41 And that will be, I think, a role that can change
11:45 within a game or even game to game
11:47 based kind of on what we need
11:49 'cause they all bring different strengths.
11:51 You touched on June's physicality
11:53 and his size are really good.
11:56 You know, he goes in there, he rebounds,
11:58 he does some things defensively.
11:59 And obviously he's proven on the international stage
12:01 that he can score it and shoot it.
12:03 Steele's the only one of those three
12:05 that's done it in college and he's done it at a high level.
12:08 There's only 30, 32 conference players of the year
12:11 and he's one of those.
12:13 He's made shots in big games
12:15 and his ability to shoot is really, really special.
12:17 And that's a weapon in today's game.
12:19 So experience and shooting are always needed
12:24 and Steele brings good height.
12:25 He's got some length, you know,
12:27 and then Dusty's a little different.
12:28 He's the smallest of the three,
12:30 but he can really move his feet defensively.
12:33 He's a versatile player.
12:34 He's got a toughness to him.
12:36 And like you talked about, Daniel,
12:37 he puts it on the floor well enough.
12:39 He shoots it well enough.
12:40 He's an unselfish player that understands how to space
12:43 and play off other really good players.
12:45 And obviously being a freshman
12:47 has quite a bit of upside to grow.
12:49 So I think, you know, there's lineups
12:51 where two of those guys will probably be out there together.
12:53 Then there's other lineups
12:54 where they'll just be out there individually.
12:57 But all three will have a significant role
12:59 and we're really looking for someone of those three
13:03 or two of those three, or even all three of them,
13:05 to really make a jump and kind of make it
13:07 a little more clear 'cause it is really even right now.
13:10 You know, and then you touched on Anton.
13:12 I think the beautiful thing about Ton
13:14 is his experience in his game, it doesn't matter.
13:17 There's what position he plays.
13:19 I don't care if it's the three, the four.
13:21 I mean, he played some stretches at the five,
13:23 Garden Shweebway and Zach Eadie.
13:25 He's just such a good player at this level
13:28 and the game's so easy for him
13:30 that we can give him any job.
13:32 It doesn't matter what his position is.
13:35 And he can fill that role.
13:36 So that's the nice thing about having a fifth year senior
13:39 that's so experienced is you don't have to worry about him.
13:41 You can just kind of give him a role and a job
13:44 and he'll go out there and do it for you.
13:46 - Staying on Anton, he went to the G League Combine
13:50 and when I talked to him, he learned about himself,
13:54 but I think he also learned he wasn't in the physical shape
13:57 he needed to be to be at that level.
13:59 Have you seen a rededication to being in top-notch
14:02 physical shape from him this off season?
14:03 - Yeah, there's definitely been a change.
14:05 I'm happy with Anton.
14:07 Obviously that feedback was not what he wanted to hear
14:09 at that time or how he probably wanted to show individually,
14:13 but he's done a great job.
14:15 He's come back, he's dropped a ton of weight.
14:18 I think you can see it.
14:20 I can definitely see it in how he moves.
14:22 And I know that that's been a goal of his.
14:24 So I was really happy this summer that he addressed that
14:26 and has made big change.
14:28 He's down double digits since the Combine.
14:30 And I think he learned some other things
14:34 about the rebounding numbers that needed to be posted
14:37 and some of those things.
14:37 So hopefully he'll continue throughout the year
14:40 to kind of be cognizant of those.
14:42 'Cause the nice thing is what he heard there
14:45 is stuff that's going to help us win games here, too.
14:47 It's really conducive to both.
14:49 And again, just I can't say enough good things about Anton.
14:52 He's a winner and he's won a lot of games here
14:55 and he's going to help us win a lot of games this year
14:57 'cause he just, he plays the right way
14:58 and he makes the game a lot easier for everybody else.
15:01 - The last couple of years counting this year,
15:04 and I'm just going to make an assumption,
15:05 but I think I'm right,
15:06 is rim protection on the backside has been,
15:09 it's not lacking, but it's been so much different with Chet.
15:12 And then we had BC, Rui, Zeebo, Shimmy.
15:17 How have you guys adjusted to that defensively as a staff?
15:20 'Cause you guys used to switch everything.
15:21 I'm going really deep though for basketball stuff,
15:25 but you guys used to switch everything.
15:27 And now it seems like with some of your fives
15:30 that you got to go into pick and roll packages.
15:33 As a coaching staff, is that harder to reteach
15:36 or do you guys prefer,
15:38 obviously you want to have everything in your back pocket,
15:41 but it's just been odd.
15:44 And it's not an odd thing,
15:45 but Drew wasn't a rim protector.
15:47 Ton is an okay, like a challenge, but not like a block.
15:50 How does that change your guys' philosophy defensively
15:54 as the year progresses?
15:56 Does that scare you later in the year?
15:58 - You always want to have everything, right?
16:01 And you always want to have rim protection.
16:03 The 17 team was historic at it.
16:05 They were the number one defense in the country
16:07 because you had J3, you had Shimmy, you had Zeebo.
16:11 You know, the 18 team was pretty good.
16:13 The 19 team was really small, but it was Rui and BC,
16:16 which were elite.
16:18 You know, the interesting thing,
16:19 I think the two years that you would probably look
16:21 to not have it as much would have been the 21 Final Four team
16:24 because you really just had Drew as your only big.
16:27 And then obviously last year and probably this year,
16:29 you had Chet lumped in the middle of it
16:31 because it was kind of a one man, one man backline defense.
16:35 He just changed so much.
16:36 So I think it does change some of your coverages.
16:39 It probably changes some of what you do on the perimeter
16:42 in terms of how important it is to keep the ball in front
16:44 versus not keep the ball in front.
16:47 But obviously last year, you know,
16:48 we had a really successful year.
16:50 We went to an elite eight.
16:51 The Final Four year, we were undefeated almost all year.
16:55 But we got to do it by committee.
16:56 That's something we've been talking to this group about
16:58 that I think last year's group got really good at
17:00 late in the year.
17:01 You know, you go back and you watch that Grand Canyon game,
17:04 Julian had three or four unbelievable rim protects
17:07 that weren't there early in the year.
17:09 And so we've been trying to stress that to this group
17:12 of everyone can help protect the rim,
17:15 whether that's keeping the ball in front on the perimeter,
17:17 whether that's being in good help side,
17:19 whether that's going over and protecting the rim
17:21 when it's your turn, but it has to be by committee.
17:24 - I think the guy that started to cut you off
17:25 that like solidified for the wing position,
17:29 not everybody was core,
17:30 he used to always come over if he was under.
17:32 - Right.
17:33 - And then he just showed like a Julian,
17:35 like you can be six, seven, but you can chest a guy legally
17:38 and still challenge.
17:39 We're not looking for blocks, we're looking for misses.
17:41 - Yep.
17:42 - Right?
17:43 So yeah, I totally agree.
17:44 Like it obviously changes the way that
17:46 your stylistic thinking,
17:47 but if you guys coach it the way you do,
17:51 it just doesn't have to be,
17:51 oh, we don't have Chet seven, four, whatever,
17:53 seven, three, we can't rim protect.
17:55 No, if you get on the split line
17:56 and you meet him outside the paint, blah, blah, blah.
17:58 So that's, I appreciate the answer,
18:00 but I was always just curious on, you know,
18:03 thought process on rim protection,
18:04 'cause it's such a valuable piece to have in today's game.
18:07 - Yeah, and you touched on that final four team,
18:10 Corey was a fantastic rim protector
18:12 and obviously part of that was athleticism and physicality,
18:14 but we talked to Julian about that.
18:16 Hey, take that from Corey, right?
18:18 Look at what Corey was able to do.
18:20 Take that and I think Julian grew into that more and more
18:23 and we need this team to grow into that mold as well.
18:27 - So on that, obviously Adam and I spent time
18:30 at the NBA level and like literally you'll go through
18:33 eight different pick and roll coverages
18:34 and different weak side coverages.
18:37 You guys do as good a job as any college program
18:39 when I go to practices of teaching those kind of things
18:42 and emphasizing it.
18:44 How many things do you look at
18:45 during the course of the preseason to come up with,
18:48 these are the couple different scenarios
18:50 that we're really gonna focus on
18:52 in how we guard certain actions?
18:54 - A lot, you know, I don't know if it's seven or eight
18:56 like you talked about, but it's above five
19:00 and you look at 'em and you gotta look at 'em
19:02 with everything, you know, what does it look like
19:04 for the guards, what does it look like for the bigs,
19:06 what does it take away from the offense
19:08 versus what does it give to the offense, right?
19:10 Everything in basketball is gonna have a give and take
19:12 and so if you take something away,
19:14 it's gonna possibly open something else up
19:17 and so you have to look at your strengths as a team,
19:19 your players' strengths, what they can actually execute
19:22 and then balance that with what are you willing to give up
19:25 versus what do you wanna take away.
19:27 And this year we have a smart group.
19:30 We're a new group but it's a really smart group of guys
19:32 that wants to listen and do the right thing
19:34 so I think it is something where we can do
19:36 a lot of different things and be able to execute those.
19:40 - When you put together a non-conference schedule
19:43 and I know you and I have talked about this a little bit,
19:45 we're talking about different ways to guard things,
19:47 take away different things.
19:49 When you put together a non-conference schedule,
19:50 do you try to hit different styles of teams
19:53 so that when you get to league,
19:54 maybe you've seen everything
19:56 and then when you get to the NCAA tournament,
19:58 you've played against a fast-breaking team,
20:00 you've played against a low-post oriented team,
20:02 you've played against zone teams, trapping teams.
20:05 Does any of that come to mind
20:06 when you put together a schedule?
20:07 - I mean, theoretically it does
20:09 and theoretically that would be great
20:11 but you and I have had some of these scheduling talks.
20:13 It is so difficult with everything
20:16 that goes into scheduling that basically
20:19 you just need to worry about finding the schedule
20:22 that works in terms of the right number of home games,
20:24 neutral games, MTE games, road games.
20:27 You know, we talked about all this, right?
20:30 The right, hitting the right numbers with the net
20:33 and some of those things
20:34 that by the time you get through those,
20:36 being able to drill it all the way down to,
20:38 okay, how do they play?
20:40 It doesn't become realistic.
20:42 With that being said, playing whatever it is now,
20:46 15, let's call it 15 out of conference games,
20:49 amongst that, you're gonna see everything, right?
20:54 You're gonna run into a team that zones.
20:55 You're gonna run into a team that plays fast.
20:57 You're gonna run into a team that holds the ball
20:59 with who we play.
21:00 We're gonna run into a dominant point guard,
21:02 a dominant big, dominant wings
21:04 because we're playing so many high, high level opponents
21:07 that they're gonna have that.
21:08 So I feel that we always end up facing everything
21:13 unintentionally.
21:14 It's not necessarily intentional
21:16 but I think by the time we get to league,
21:18 definitely by the time we get to the NCAA tournament,
21:21 there really hasn't been a,
21:23 oh, we haven't seen that at all.
21:25 - Now we're gonna shift gears a little bit
21:28 and talking about the business of the sport.
21:31 Conference realignment has been a big issue,
21:33 especially on the football side
21:35 and it's gonna affect us eventually,
21:37 whether sooner than later.
21:39 What are your thoughts?
21:41 Obviously, you're not gonna sit here and go,
21:43 we should leave the WCC
21:45 'cause the WCC has been great the last five, six years
21:47 and it's changed after we had the issues with the units
21:51 and then we had the issues with the first game
21:54 in the WCC tournament, we went back to buys, right?
21:56 So they corrected some of the issues that affected Gonzaga
21:59 more than the other programs.
22:00 But how do you think this changes the landscape of,
22:05 we're not a mid-major team, but we're mid-major size.
22:09 Just, okay, I know you guys hate that
22:11 and I don't know how else to say it, university size.
22:14 That's what I mean.
22:15 How do you think it changes programs like ourselves
22:18 that are one of the best brands in college basketball,
22:22 you guys' numbers, lead eights, sweet 16s,
22:24 final four appearances, championship games,
22:25 speak for itself.
22:27 But how do you think it changes compared to
22:29 these SEC type, Power Five conferences?
22:33 - Yeah, first of all, obviously, any decisions on that
22:36 are so far above my pay grade
22:38 and there's a lot of people
22:39 that'll go into making those decisions.
22:41 - But you have a say in it, B-Mike.
22:43 - So I'm in, I don't have any say in that decision.
22:48 But it is unique 'cause the college landscape
22:51 has changed so much, right?
22:53 I mean, the Pac-12 that we all grew up in
22:57 doesn't exist anymore.
23:00 The WCC, and you touched on it,
23:02 has gotten way better than when any of the three of us
23:06 played in it when I came back.
23:07 And there's a lot of reasons for that.
23:09 A lot of schools have done a really, really good job
23:11 investing in their programs.
23:13 The coaching is great at this level.
23:15 They've invested in facilities.
23:16 They're obviously all great academic institutions.
23:19 They're in really cool cities that they can draw to.
23:22 So the power of that league has really,
23:24 our league has really, really grown
23:26 and I think you see that, right?
23:28 - And the numbers speak for itself.
23:30 So they're like Ken Palm and then we had a three-bid league
23:32 and it's been a multi-bid league for six, seven, eight years.
23:35 So we're not just saying that just to pump up our own league.
23:37 It shows it.
23:38 - Yeah, and obviously, you know,
23:40 but realignment has hit the league.
23:42 BYU left and BYU was a great addition to our league
23:46 for nine, 10 years, however long they were in the league,
23:48 both from their fan following,
23:51 the quality of play that they put out there,
23:53 going to play at that arena.
23:55 We've played everywhere that's up there
23:56 with the best arenas there are.
23:58 So the realignment thing is real
24:00 and I think the thing that coach
24:03 has always done a great job with
24:04 and Gonzaga's always done a great job with
24:06 is making sure that Gonzaga's in the best position
24:11 to continue to succeed. - Seeing around the corner.
24:12 - Yep, and whether realignment continues
24:17 and hits us or hits more programs, we'll have to see.
24:21 But it's not something where you can just stick your head
24:24 in the sand and say, oh, it's not gonna happen to us
24:27 or to the league because we already have lost BYU.
24:30 The Pac-12 that was the power five league in the West
24:33 is gone in eight or nine months.
24:36 So it is a changing landscape, but it's also hard to say.
24:40 I mean, you mentioned some leagues, SEC, Big 12, Big 10,
24:42 like as everyone can see,
24:45 those are changing by the day too, right?
24:47 Like, I mean, come on, you got two schools from LA
24:49 and two schools from the Northwest
24:51 are now in the Big 10 in eight months.
24:53 That's not what we're used to.
24:56 So who's to say that in 24 months,
24:58 those leagues don't have a completely different
25:01 group of people or that the power five
25:03 is now the power two or three or whatever it's gonna be.
25:07 So there's a lot of changes in the college landscape
25:11 and it'll be interesting to see where it goes.
25:15 I can tell you that.
25:16 - Well, Adam and I kind of touched on this last week.
25:18 And to me, the biggest thing is Coach Pheu,
25:20 wants to be able to have the program in a place
25:23 where it can compete for a national title.
25:24 And the WCC has done that till now.
25:27 So who knows what happens, but for,
25:29 usually a hypothetical, things change
25:31 and you have to go to a different league.
25:33 You guys already recruit internationally.
25:35 You guys already recruit across the country.
25:38 Who fits your program and your style and your culture?
25:41 Would change of league change maybe philosophy
25:44 in recruiting?
25:45 Is there anything to that?
25:46 'Cause I know some schools have said,
25:47 "Hey, we're gonna be available to recruit
25:50 a whole different kind of player."
25:51 I don't think that would be the case with you.
25:53 What do you guys think?
25:54 - I don't think so.
25:55 I've heard that too.
25:56 And obviously I haven't lived it.
25:58 Those other schools have lived it.
26:00 So maybe it does a little bit
26:01 if you're in a different league
26:02 and now you have home games in a certain state,
26:05 maybe you can try and hit that state a little harder
26:07 because you will be bringing people home.
26:10 But you and I have talked about this a little bit, Dan.
26:12 We really recruit based on fit.
26:14 You obviously gotta have elite talent,
26:16 but you gotta be about the right things.
26:18 You gotta wanna come here and win and get better
26:22 and be a part of a great culture and a great family.
26:24 We've touched on that.
26:25 And so that hasn't mattered
26:27 whether you're from the Northwest, like we all were,
26:30 and the groups we played with predominantly were,
26:33 whether you're international.
26:34 Obviously we've had a ton of success there
26:36 or guys from all over the country.
26:37 I mean, Chet and Jalen are Minnesota guys.
26:39 The one team had Drew Admon and Ryan Woolridge,
26:42 all Texas, Dallas guys.
26:45 Obviously you got Pargo and Norvell from Chicago.
26:47 I mean, it's been really, if it's the right fit,
26:50 we've been willing to go anywhere to find those guys.
26:53 So without having lived it,
26:56 I would think that we would continue to just look for the,
26:59 we will, no matter what, look for the right people.
27:01 But maybe if you do,
27:02 maybe if you're playing a bunch of games in the South now
27:04 or on the Eastern Seaboard,
27:06 it does open that up a little more than,
27:08 obviously right now 99% of our games are Western-based.
27:12 - I feel like that's a football thing though, more so.
27:14 You know what I'm saying?
27:15 We're in Texas now,
27:18 so we can go grab all that talent for Texas.
27:20 I mean, you're not wrong,
27:21 but I think that's just more like a football statement.
27:23 - Probably 'cause you also had to fill a 75-89 roster.
27:26 - Exactly, so it's like now we can go
27:28 'cause our games are on their locals or whatever.
27:31 So I think, obviously Brian,
27:33 obviously knows more than I do about recruiting,
27:35 but we've hit pretty much the whole gamut
27:38 except like New York or anything like that.
27:40 I don't think changing conference
27:43 really would change that, in my opinion.
27:44 - Yeah, I mean, I'm just curious just 'cause,
27:47 like you said, they do talk about that with football.
27:50 But I mean, shoot, you guys are getting McDonald's,
27:52 All-Americans now, five stars.
27:54 Everyone said, and we ball,
27:57 Tommy's a great friend to all of us,
27:59 but everybody said that European pipeline's gone.
28:02 Well, got a couple of pretty good ones in my estimation.
28:05 I think June's got a chance to be pretty good.
28:06 So I don't think that's gonna impact things too much
28:10 if it were to happen.
28:12 Good stuff, Brian.
28:13 Thanks for joining.
28:14 Mo, this is our first guest,
28:15 so we'll have a bunch of guests.
28:18 I mean, we're gonna have Derek Ravio,
28:21 Sakre, Pendergraft, they're all planning on coming on
28:23 at some point in the very near future.
28:25 We gotta get Steven Gentry and RJ,
28:28 the other assistants up here too as well.
28:31 - Jorge as well.
28:32 - Jorge, yeah.
28:32 He's a phenomenal basketball man
28:34 at times I've talked to him.
28:35 - Yeah, he's awesome.
28:35 - So any last comments?
28:37 - I appreciate you guys having me.
28:39 - Awesome.
28:39 There you have it for Talking Zags,
28:41 Gonzaga Nation, Brian Michelson,
28:43 Adam Morrison, and Dan Dickow.
28:45 (upbeat music)
28:47 (upbeat music)