Mike Giardi and Will Parkinson of the All 32 NFL Podcast drop an emergency episode following the Patriots' hiring of Mike Vrabel as their new head coach. Giardi and Parkinson also dive into what this means for the Jets and where they go from here.
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SportsTranscript
00:00It is caught! Touchdown!
00:04The New England Patriots select Drake May.
00:08He's got the ball! And that's the ballgame!
00:12So it's an early Sunday afternoon in addition to the All 32 pod, Mike Ciardi alongside
00:16Will Parkinson as always. The show brought to you by PrizeFix, the exclusive Daily Fantasy
00:20partner of the CLNS Media Network. And game time, best tickets, best prices
00:24to get you into any event you want to see. We bump up our normal
00:28Monday pod to Sunday because, well, what we thought was going to happen, what we were telling you
00:32was going to happen here on this podcast, Will, did happen. Mike Vrabel
00:36is the new head coach of the New England Patriots. He will be announced at a press conference
00:40on Monday at noon. Of course, yours truly will be there
00:44dutifully recording and asking questions of the new head coach of the Patriots.
00:48Quickly, just, right man, right time.
00:52Culture, they need. Identity, they need. Order,
00:56they need. Better game management. Mike Vrabel brings all these things
01:00to the table. As we're recording this, we're transparently
01:04Broncos-Bills. The Broncos just threw a 50-yard touchdown to
01:08Morvin Mims. I know, Troy Franklin, I apologize. 45 yards.
01:12We'll see if that one gets interesting. And we'll have more to talk about on these games.
01:16So, you know, if you come here for the games, again, we'll have a lot of that talk.
01:20The games yesterday sucked and we know that. I would say
01:24from a Vrabel perspective, as soon as they fired Mayo,
01:28the winds, timeline-wise, the winds started to blow pretty strongly.
01:32After he interviewed in person with the Jets, I believe it was Thursday or Friday
01:36of that week, but I think it's either a week or two weeks ago, a week and a half ago, whatever
01:40it was. Yeah, I guess last Friday, so a little over a week ago.
01:44And it felt like Mayo was on thin ice. You had talked about it
01:48on our show. Friday, you said if they're going to do it,
01:52they're going to get rid of the whole staff and everyone's going to be gone.
01:56And you're like, it's probably, they might be
02:00undecided. They might not be. We weren't sure. But it certainly felt weird going to that game.
02:04And then just from a timeline perspective, you know, essentially
02:08benched Drake May. They showed their ass a little bit. I think they were
02:12pretty okay with losing last Sunday.
02:16Obviously, we know what happened during the game. And everyone,
02:20at least from the outside perspective, was like, oh, did that save Mayo's job?
02:24And he's fired 90 minutes after the
02:28postgame. We know the whole story. The Patriots had their
02:32sham of a hiring process. Yes, they interviewed Ben Johnson. I think there was
02:36legitimate interest there. Mike, correct me if I'm wrong. I think he was the guy that
02:40if it wasn't for Abel, they were hoping they could get someone in for Drake May and be that
02:44offensive mastermind genius. But the Pat Hamilton, Byron Lefkowitz,
02:48all, we obviously know about that. Elliot Wolfe remaining.
02:52Alonzo Highsmith remaining. So there was no real change
02:56other than Alexander Pelton, Marcus Covington, and Gerard Mayo. We had the Mayo post yesterday
03:00on Instagram from Mrs. Mayo. Selfishly,
03:04I kind of hope someone else in the AFC East hires Gerard Mayo just to see the antics
03:08of how that could unfold in the future. But it always felt like this was
03:12Mike Vrabel. I remember talking to people around the Jets
03:16and they felt like if the job didn't open, it was the Vegas or the Jets.
03:20It was like there were legit options. And from all reporting,
03:24which take it for what it is, Vegas,
03:28the Bears, and Jets all made last second pushes for Mike
03:32Vrabel. But I think everyone knew the second this job opened, it was a matter of
03:36get the money right. Do your
03:40due diligence with the other teams. But we want you. We're going to move fast. And the Patriots
03:44with their guy certainly raises the floor of this team.
03:48The ceiling, I think, is potentially the question you may have about this
03:52hire of just like, hey, is the ceiling of a Ben Johnson with Drake May, is that
03:56ceiling a little higher? Maybe. You could argue that that's certainly a possibility.
04:00But I think from a floor perspective, this puts them as, you'd argue
04:04he's the best coach in the division. It depends on what the Jets do, I guess.
04:08But the way they're trending, that's probably not going to matter. I think
04:12he's already a better coach than Mike McDaniel. I think you would argue he's had more success than
04:16Sean McDermott. And he'd probably, in a big game, go Vrabel over McDermott. At least
04:20as successful as McDermott has been. So right now, the Patriots have
04:24a young quarterback, a star corner, and a head coach. The rest is up for
04:28debate on where they're at. But I think this was, they had
04:32to get this right. And again, he's not a Belichick
04:36guy. And look, Mike Vrabel is the best coach on the market, and the Patriots locked him up
04:40in the first week of the head coaching and hiring process.
04:44Yes, you mentioned the sham search, and it absolutely positively was, right?
04:48But at the end of this, if I'm
04:52the Patriots, while I know how they feel,
04:56who cares? I don't care that you think it's a sham. And yes, did they get
05:00heat from the league for it? Absolutely. But they
05:04fired Gerard Mayo, knowing full well Mike Vrabel was option one,
05:08option two, and option three. And the fact
05:12that they were able to get it done, it's the second fastest coaching hire at the end of
05:16a season since Ron Rivera got hired by Washington in 2019. That
05:20took just two days. This took a full seven days to get
05:24it done. But quite frankly, I think it could have gotten done on Monday afternoon
05:28if the rules were in place that allowed that to happen. So they went
05:32through their sham process, but they settled on the right guy.
05:36Your point about raising the floor, but now what's the ceiling?
05:40So now becomes the next interesting part of this whole process, right?
05:44And that is, who's the offensive coordinator? Who's the defensive coordinator?
05:48Now we know, even if Mike gets an inexperienced defensive coordinator, whatever
05:52he decides to do there. And it appears, at least now, that Shane Bowen, who
05:56was his guy for three years, actually four, even though he didn't have the title for one of those years
06:00in Tennessee, appears likely that he is staying in New York. At least
06:04that's the vibe. I think Mike Garofalo put something out about that today
06:08on the pregame show, and Mike is very tapped in.
06:12So the defensive hire might be a little bit more difficult. But offensively,
06:16that's the big hire. What do you do? Because obviously people look
06:20back and say, well, their offenses were run first, and were they that
06:24creative? And you look at some of the metrics and you say, eh, it wasn't that great.
06:28Well, he hired Matt LaFleur. LaFleur was his coordinator for
06:32one year and immediately got tapped as the head coach of Green Bay. Then he brought in Arthur Smith.
06:36Arthur did terrific work working around the pieces that he had.
06:40Ryan Tannell, again, not at that point probably the 12th or 13th best quarterback.
06:44Drake Mays' ceiling is certainly higher than that, and he did
06:48some good things. So I think Mike has proven that, from a philosophy
06:52sense, even though it looks like he's a run-first coach, that he is willing to meld.
06:56I think he does take this from the Belichick
07:00way of the school of thinking of, we will be a game plan team.
07:04Yes, there are things that we do that we do, but we're also going to come into it going,
07:08well, they're really good at this, and if we sit in this, we're going to be screwed. Or if we keep calling
07:12this over and over again, it's not going to work. And I think he's shown the
07:16willingness and capabilities to adapt. So that offensive coordinator hire is going to be
07:20massive, I think. Obviously, we talked
07:24on Friday, Josh McDaniels. There's connection there.
07:28Ownership likes Josh McDaniels. There's not a real concern
07:32that Josh McDaniels is going to get a head coaching job anytime
07:36soon, if ever at all. So you look at that situation and say, well, if we bring in
07:40a good offensive coordinator and Drake Mays flies under him, it's not
07:44necessarily going to be, oh no, now we have to find the next guy.
07:48Josh is financially... I don't think Josh is going anywhere as a head
07:52coaching anytime soon. So then the other names that sort of came up, obviously Tommy Reese,
07:56who we worked with. Tommy was the tight ends coach with the Browns this year.
08:00Of course, worked with the Browns in a number of different roles, including for a while in the tight end
08:04room. So there's a connection there. He obviously has not called plays
08:08at the National Football League level. He hit me with the Browns
08:12later last week for their OC job, if I'm not mistaken, correct? He's also never coached
08:16quarterbacks, which again... Weird as a former quarterback. Yeah, right.
08:20Very weird. Tim Kelly, who was his offensive coordinator
08:24for the Titans in 2023. I believe Tim is with
08:28the Giants as a tight ends coach. I wrote this down and I can't...
08:32I'm a Patriots fan. That's the one I'm like, no, please. Yeah, but just if you're looking for
08:36past connections, that's one. And then, of course, there's Nick Kelly, who they tried to hire
08:40last year under Gerard Mayo. Kelly got a
08:44bump up with the Rams. You're correct, by the way. Tim Kelly is the Giants tight end coach.
08:48For some reason, Vrabel and tight end coaches really just...
08:52So those are four names that I sort of put at the front of the list.
08:56And again, I think that vision, how we're
09:00going to do this and how we're going to morph when your best player on offense
09:04is clearly the quarterback at this point. Grant, long way to go.
09:08People are putting him in the Hall of Fame. We're not there yet, folks. But there's definitely
09:12signs that you've got the guy. And now how do you build on that and how do you support
09:16him? So those are four names that I sort of put out there
09:20from the offensive side. Defensively, as I mentioned, Shane Bowen, probably
09:24unlikely at this point to leave the Giants. Terrell Williams is
09:28someone with the Lions who was Vrabel's defensive line coach
09:32in Tennessee for multiple years. The only problem with that is now
09:36Williams is the run game coordinator, defensive line coach with the Lions.
09:40And if Aaron Glenn gets a head coaching job, which I feel like is going to happen
09:44in this cycle, you just wonder if Terrell Williams becomes the immediate
09:48pushup. And then that scratches that name off the list. I'm not going to
09:52pronounce his name right. Ephraim? Ephraim
09:56Banda, who just interviewed. He's a Cleveland assistant. He just
10:00interviewed for the Colts DC job. Again, the connection with Vrabel
10:04being there in Cleveland this past year. So those are some names
10:08on that front. And I'll give you just quickly
10:12so it still appears that Elliott Wolfe is going to be on at least through the draft and
10:16that the craft would like him to stay on longer. Ryan Cowden
10:20however, we're getting reports already and we talked about this. Cowden was his
10:24interim GM Vrabel's in Tennessee after John Robinson was fired. That's
10:28who Vrabel wanted to be hired when they had the official opening. And of course
10:32there was the shotgun marriage with Rand Carthon. Carthon wins. Carthon
10:36stays. Vrabel gets fired. And then Carthon gets fired last
10:40week. Ryan Cowden appears to be in line for a position
10:44within the organization. And again, they haven't named a GM
10:48ever. Wolfe's not the GM, although that's technically his job. So I wonder
10:52about the language and how you make that work and whether they're going to be on an equal plane.
10:56If he's going to be underneath them, if he's going to be above him, I don't know. But
11:00that's the vibe that we're picking up out of Foxborough
11:04right now. One other
11:08quick note, the Vrabel and the Raiders. And we talked about the Raiders job last
11:12week. And I'm telling you, the Brady impact.
11:16But according to multiple reports today, which I've
11:20since confirmed, Vrabel told the Raiders, don't bother.
11:24If you want to know why there wasn't a requested interview on the books, because he
11:28told them, pretty sure I'm going to be the Patriots head coach and I don't
11:32want to waste your time. So again, back to the sham hiring thing, sham
11:36process. He was telling people that a while ago, Will. So that's sort
11:40of where it lies now for the Patriots. And certainly, I think for the first time in a long
11:44time, certainly the last couple years, there's
11:48positivity. There's going to be a serious buzz next year going into the year.
11:52And real expectation. I know the roster, this is the one
11:56place where I'm a little... I would just say be
12:00patient if you're a Patriots fan or try to be patient. This is not going to be a one-year
12:04thing there. I'd be very surprised if next
12:08year the Patriots, we're talking they're a 12-win football team. They could have a great offseason
12:12and Drake May takes a Josh Allen-level leap in year two
12:16or Josh's year three leap. And we're talking about, wow,
12:20they're competing with Buffalo. And that might happen. Do I think they could be a team that could
12:24address enough holes this offseason? And we'll talk, obviously, about this as much as we can.
12:28And Vrabel gets them four-plus wins more than Mayo
12:32and that leaves them around seven, eight wins. And then the talent
12:36raises them to nine or ten and they sneak in. Sure, I think that's
12:40very much they'll be on the table. They have to get this offseason right. They've got to get four starting
12:44offensive linemen and receivers. Is that it? Just four?
12:48There's a lot of work to be done. But I think there's real hopefulness.
12:52There's real reason to be optimistic of...
12:56Someone asked me Drake May's rookie year and
13:00I know Patriots fans probably won't like this. Very similar-ish darn old
13:04rookie year at the Jets where the roster was so horrendous. The coaching
13:08around him was so bad. But you saw genuine real
13:12flashes where the numbers weren't amazing, but the eye test was like, hey man,
13:16I know he turned the ball over a bunch, but there was some serious juice and pop.
13:20And Sam got worse because of what was surrounding him and Mono
13:24and all these different things. So I don't want people to take that from it. My point is
13:28the Jets were in this opposite spot post-2018.
13:32They didn't hire Mike Vrabel. They hired Adam Gase.
13:36And the reason I say that is if the Patriots got this high right, which I think anyone
13:40would assume, at least the Patriots should be competitive every year with Mike
13:44Vrabel. They should be a team that you have real expectation for
13:48competitive, good football, especially at home and especially on the road.
13:52There shouldn't be 40-3 to the Chargers late
13:56in the year. It should be, hey, we're fighting, we're clawing,
14:00we're going to be a team. Even those Titans teams that the last two years with Mike Vrabel, 6-11,
14:04quarterback, we talk about that game, and I think it's a real
14:08testament to why Vrabel is going to get the $17, $18, $16 million a
14:12year. Malik Willis, Sunday Night Football, against
14:16all these guys out with COVID and injuries and all these different things, and he goes into Kansas City
14:20and they push them to the wire, man. And that's the most out of
14:24very Belichick-ish and from that perspective.
14:28I think Patriots fans, if they're patient with the
14:32adding of talent to this roster and probably a two-year, this year
14:36and next year, 2025-26, hoping
14:4025, can we take a step to be a 7-9 or 10-win team
14:44and show real promise and be like, hey, we're one more
14:48or two more guys away, and then take that leap in 26 to being
14:52a legit contender for the division and maybe throughout the conference. Again,
14:56I don't think it could happen, but I just think if you have that approach as a Patriots fan,
15:00you're going to be feeling really good. We've got quarterback, we have an all-pro corner,
15:04we have an all-pro-level defensive tackle that should be back next year,
15:08our defense is going to be built around those two guys, and we'll build it up around
15:12them. And then on offense, we should have a running
15:16game next year, no matter what, under Vrabel. And Romanger, he's extended,
15:20obviously, and I know he's not a perfect player, but you probably feel good about, hey,
15:24can he be 75% of what Derrick Henry was in Tennessee?
15:28I know it's a bad day to talk about Derrick Henry last night, but you get my point,
15:32and then it's like, hey, can we add two pieces on offense around Hunter Henry
15:36and Romanger, and then maybe Polk is at least
15:4050% of the guy we thought he was going to be, or can Pop Douglas take
15:44one more notch? You know what I mean? You're just looking for little things there, and say,
15:48Vrabel is going to out-coach 80%, I don't know,
15:52maybe that range. I'm telling you, I feel like
15:56if that's your realistic mindset as a Patriots fan, you're going in next year
16:00going, I'm excited, I'm not out of whack with where we're at,
16:04and let's try to go sneak in the playoffs and get back some of that
16:08Patriots luster, where we don't get blown out of home, we're competitive at home, and we go on
16:12the road, and the best thing you can say about us is you hate playing against us.
16:16That's what a Mike Vrabel team is going to look like.
16:18You know, so I posted a story early this afternoon on
16:22Boston Sports Journal, and I said, you know,
16:26it's Mike Vrabel, it's always been Mike Vrabel, no amount of dickering about the money was going to
16:30eventually derail this. There was, you know, sort of a feeling, a
16:34strong feeling within the building that this was the direction they were going to end up in, and
16:38now they have a chance to become something they haven't been for the last couple years, and that's respectable,
16:42and that's been a missing element in Foxborough, and I think ownership
16:46has had either a hard time understanding
16:50that, or just completely unaware of how they're discussed now
16:54in league circles, and look, there's not a lot of love for them in league circles, just because of
16:58the arrogance which they felt, like Bill in particular, but even
17:02definitely trickled down, or trickled up to ownership in terms of that
17:06arrogance, and getting Vrabel back in the building now
17:10gives, as we were talking about, sort of the positive vibes, and the roster
17:14is still a mess. I think that there's 25 guys on this roster that need to be
17:18swapped out in this next year, like legitimately, and important pieces
17:22too, you know, as you talked about, multiple offensive linemen, at least three, maybe four,
17:26depending on how you feel about David Andrews
17:30coming back off the injury that he suffered, and I know he wants to come back, and
17:34would be someone who makes a lot of sense coming back, just based on sort of the person
17:38that he is, and the ability to help, hey, this is what we're going to have to deal with,
17:42and as I had one player tell me, we know he's an a-hole,
17:46but this year proved, or should have proved to everyone
17:50that we need an a-hole, that we're not, A, we're not good
17:54enough, B, we have a lot of young guys who don't know what it takes to be a professional,
17:58or how much work has to go in to win, right, and Vrabel at least can
18:02say, look, 9-7, 9-7, 11-5, 12-5,
18:06number one seed at 12-5, despite using 91 players a league record
18:10that season, and I know they didn't win in the playoffs, and so that will be held
18:14against him, but like, that's sort of a pretty good
18:18thing to put up on the wall and say, hey fellas, believe in what I'm doing,
18:22and we can do this too, and we don't always have to be the most talented,
18:26but we will be the most prepared, and I think that was another thing that sort of
18:30showed this year, the lack of preparation, or the lack of ability
18:34from the coaching staff to adjust, you know, sort of
18:38mid-game to what other teams are doing, when they have a counterpunch to what our punch was,
18:42we didn't have a counter. With Mike Vrabel,
18:46assuming he surrounds himself with a good staff,
18:50they'll have that ability now.
18:52My one criticism will be of this hire,
18:56if it plays out in a certain
19:00way, as we kind of wrap up here, would just be
19:04try to not run back the whole Belichick staff.
19:08I think there's pieces, I think there's a lot to be said for Josh McDaniels
19:12being a, look, he runs an offense that a majority of the offense
19:16league is going to run in some form or fashion, and I think there's nothing wrong with that,
19:20especially knowing, you know, we talk a lot about how much money the Raiders owe him and these different
19:24things, with offset money and things, you know, does that kind of save
19:28Vrabel to spend maybe more on a D.C. or spend more on
19:32whatever? And I think all those things are very good points.
19:36I just would say, if I'm him,
19:40everyone has relationships, and we see this is not a new thing in the league, but I would say
19:44if Vrabel has done a really good job of plucking offensive
19:48coordinators, or defensive coordinators too, out of
19:52I don't want to say out of thin air, because that's not respectful to LaFleur and Arthur Smith and these guys,
19:56but I don't think when those guys were hired, I don't think any of us were like,
20:00they're going to be a head coach in 12 to 24 months,
20:04and I would like to see Vrabel go maybe that route
20:08more, and then say Josh is the fallback. Josh doesn't need to work
20:12if he doesn't want to. Stay away from the judges and the Patricias
20:16and all those guys. I know a lot of those guys are with UNC and are rumored to be going potentially there,
20:20you know, and Bill is going to set Steve Belichick up for the UNC job in a year
20:24when he inevitably leaves back to the NFL, but try to
20:28and it's no disrespect to those two
20:32dynasties the Patriots had in any way, but the game is a little different now
20:36and I think Vrabel is going to bring some fresh ideas
20:40a little bit, and it felt like Mayo's tenure was a
20:44crappy finishing end of
20:48the Belichick run, in a sense. It just felt like a bad version
20:52of Bill, and Vrabel is not that. Just from an assistant perspective,
20:56I just would implore him to be a couple of creative hires.
21:00One creative front office, one out of nowhere that you don't know.
21:04Me and you talked about this. Mike Munchak should be this team's
21:08offensive line coach next year. He should be one of the first phone calls you make
21:12if not the offensive coordinator and you're calling Munchak and saying,
21:16hey, do you want to come back and coach? There's a possibility as much as for this
21:20Patriots team, it might be Abdul Carter, it might be
21:24Ted McMillan, it might be Travis Hunter. There's a very good argument
21:28it should be offensive line and say, hey, look at the Chargers rebuild.
21:32They should have probably done a bunch of different things last year, but they went with the
21:36offensive line, par ball, raised the floor in their playoff team, and I know
21:40they choked yesterday, and again, I know people are going to be like, really? That's the example?
21:44They won 11 games this year, and I think Patriots fans would be quite happy
21:48to win 11 games and lose in a playoff game.
21:52That Charger team was really well coached and tough
21:56and obviously Herbert melted down yesterday amongst others,
22:00but they were ahead of schedule. That team should not have been
22:04in the playoffs this year. They took advantage of all the opportunities. They beat the bad teams.
22:08They didn't beat good teams this year, but they beat the bad teams, and if you beat the bad teams, then you're
22:12in the mix. You have a chance to get in the postseason. I want to talk about the Jets
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24:04emergency pod edition of the All 32, I kind of got
24:08the words all screwed up there, but you know what I meant. Where do the jets
24:12stand now? Because clearly, and we talked about it
24:16six weeks ago, Mike Vrabel
24:20made a lot of sense for what the Jets wanted to do. And I think Mike Vrabel
24:24had genuine interest in what the Jets were all about until, of course,
24:28the Patriots' job is going to be opening up. And as I said, even told the Raiders, peace.
24:32We're not even bothering because this is the job I want. Where do the Jets go?
24:36Where are they? Or what are you hearing at this point about their search both for the
24:40general manager and a head coach? Yeah, so Jets are
24:44this process. I would say there's a
24:48pretty good chance when we're recording our Friday episode, we'll be doing
24:52another emergency pod of hiring. We're going to try to do
24:56and I didn't even run this by Mike. We'll try to do these for all. There's only so many
25:00openings. So we'll try to, especially if they go in a group, we'll try to group them. But if not, we'll try to get
25:04something out in a reaction to not just Jets and Pat stuff, but
25:08the Jets have completed 13 GM interviews. They've been Rooney role
25:12compliant for some time now. You can hire a GM, even if their team's in
25:16the playoffs. So Mike Borgonzi, for example, who I think should be the choice.
25:20Nick Halaby, an analytics offensive kind of
25:24minded guy who the Jets to go back to back Eagle guys would be interesting.
25:28I don't think he's the favorite, but he's certainly a name to
25:32watch. There was a couple other ones that were interesting for different
25:36reasons. So Brian Game, I know who you've kind of been familiar
25:40with and these other different names.
25:44The one name that I think was at the bottom of my list, personally,
25:48in terms of what I was building of a, hey, these are the names the Jets should talk to.
25:52Well, I believe that his first GM interview this year, correct me if I'm wrong,
25:56since he was fired in Indianapolis is Ryan Grigson.
26:00Wentworth in Philly. Then there's been in Minnesota
26:04the last couple of years. I think he had a
26:08great record in Indianapolis, 11-5, 11-5, 8-8, 8-8.
26:12I would say
26:16as time's gone on, I think that GM
26:2010 years even looked worse with Ryan Grigson.
26:24He inherited a 2-14 team and everyone gave him credit. Oh my God, they went 11-5.
26:28He was executive of the year in 2012. Mike, if you remember,
26:32the Patriots were the cultural playoff team the year prior to that.
26:36They lost to the Jets in 2010 in the
26:40wildcard round. They had gone to the Super Bowl the year before that.
26:44The reason they were 2-14 is because they played Curtis Painter
26:48at quarterback when Peyton Manning had the neck issues. They clearly tagged that year
26:52and Nate Angelock was one of the three best quarterback prospects we've ever seen.
26:56Grigson traded a first-round pick for Trent Richardson.
27:00He...
27:04There you go. That right there.
27:08He did a terrible job at the offensive line. The bottom line is
27:12Angelock retired at age 29.
27:16I've been subject to.
27:20Right now, there's a lot of winds blowing that Ryan Grigson and Brian Flores
27:24will be the pairing in New York. Again, nothing
27:28different. It's like, wow, that's the pairing. It's just there's been a lot of...
27:32You talk to people around that cover the Jets and different things and that's at least
27:36where the winds are blowing is Ryan Grigson and Brian Flores. I still think
27:40Aaron Glenn's the favorite for the Jets job. He called it his dream job.
27:44There is also a lot of chatter that the Saints would make
27:48the most sense for him. I don't really understand why you would choose the Saints, no
27:52disrespective of the situation they're in over the Jets, where it feels like you could have at least more
27:56success early on with the Jets. It's all about job security in this league.
28:00100%. What gives you a better chance to win right away?
28:04As we just saw, Gerard May was the guy. I knew he was going to be the guy.
28:08He didn't even last one full season, but not even a
28:12full year on the job before he gets fired. It's like,
28:16what happened to the support? To your point, you go to a Saints team
28:20that is perpetually pushing the cap,
28:24which, God bless them, just kind of proves to people that you can do pretty much
28:28whatever you want. They've been doing it with the cap for seven years now. Granted,
28:32the results have been diminishing as they've gone along here, but
28:36you go there, there is a chance that thing bottoms out. There is a chance you could
28:40be 3-14 next year. That's a passionate fan base.
28:44They say, oh my God, we hired the wrong guy, and his ownership reacted to that and pulled a plug on him.
28:48Whereas, at least in New York, we can say what we want to say about
28:52Woody, but there has been some patience with these hires, right?
28:56Yeah, too much patience. Particularly Joe Douglas, who had
29:00800 years as the general manager and never was able to get him over the hump.
29:04The last thing I'll say is, again, I think McCown
29:08has a shot here. I think Matt Nagy has an outside shot.
29:12I think Glenn and Flores are the favorites. I think both guys would be good hires.
29:16I think McCown would come with Flores. It seems like the odds on favorite right now
29:20would be Gregson, GM, Flores head coach,
29:24McCown OC. Again, overall, McCown and Flores
29:28would make you pretty excited. I think this division, if you're a Patriots fan, I don't think you want to see Brian Flores
29:32twice a year, personally. Josh McCown has a lot of potential.
29:36Gregson has just been a disaster as a GM, and I
29:40think it would be very disappointing if the Jets went through this entire search
29:44and they ended up with a guy who... This is a good test.
29:48We joke about this. Joe Caporoso, who I do
29:52some of the other stuff with, he said, do the test of your rival fan base
29:56if they hired this person, what would your reaction be? If you're a Patriots fan
30:00or a Dolphins or Bills fan, you see the Jets hired Ryan Gregson.
30:04Your reaction is probably, ha ha, idiot.
30:08If they hired Flores, you'd be like... Some Dolphins fans would be like, screw Flores.
30:12Patriots fans and Bills fans would be like,
30:16pretty good coach.
30:20I've talked about this quite a bit over the last few years.
30:24There's an incredible podcast with Ryan Fitzpatrick and
30:28Andrew Whitworth where Fitzpatrick goes in on
30:32Flores and just how he changed as a head coach from year
30:36one to what he became by the time he was fired in year three. There was a lot going
30:40on there. I've expressed to you my reservations about
30:44Flores, not from the sense of, he's a really smart dude,
30:48he's terrific with X's and O's, but the stories that
30:52came out of Miami, some that never have gotten public,
30:56just, and Fitzpatrick said it,
31:00dictatorship, where a dictator is what he became.
31:04That's not the guy who left New England.
31:08I've said this before, and I'll say it again here, that I
31:12thought when Brian Flores left New England, of all the people that left New England,
31:16from Charlie Weiss to Romeo Cornell to Joe Judge to
31:20Josh McDaniels to Matt Patricia, I thought Flores was
31:24the most equipped to do the job at the
31:28next level because I thought Brian Flores was his own man.
31:32That's what I saw with him in New England. He was not Bill Belichick.
31:36He did not try to be Bill Belichick. He was Brian Flores. He told
31:40the players he loved them. He also cursed them out. He knew
31:44their kids' names. He knew their wives. And then he would curse them
31:48out, but you had to understand there was a good balance there. Bill didn't give you that balance.
31:52Flores gave you that balance, and I thought when he went to Miami, he would be that guy. I thought he did a
31:56terrific job in year one. That was the tank for Tua, or tank for whatever.
32:00They were incredibly competitive in the second half of the season after getting beat by like 40 points
32:04a couple times at the beginning of the season, and I thought, this is going to take off
32:08and he's going to be someone to fear, but he became someone who people
32:12in the building feared, and I think that was a massive problem and led to
32:16the disconnect. And look, there's other stuff there, Stephen Ross tampering
32:20with Brady and all the different things that went on. So I'm not saying he's completely
32:24that all the blame falls on him. The question is, how much has he learned?
32:28And I would just, that's a tough one to get over, and I think he
32:32probably deserves a second chance, but maybe the second chance, maybe he'd
32:36be better served if the second chance was in New Orleans and not in New York.
32:40We do the reverse here with Glenn. I feel like Aaron might be equipped
32:44better to deal with the constant attention that you'll get
32:48in New York, whereas I think Flores struggled with that in Miami,
32:52and Miami's media contingent is small.
32:56There were times where I was there covering him at the NFL Network
33:00where there were seven or eight people in the room. There won't be seven
33:04or eight people in any room ever with the Jets.
33:08So is he capable of that?
33:12Again, he's a smart guy, so he should have learned, and he said he's learned.
33:16But Josh McDaniel told me he learned from his first experience in Denver
33:20to his second one in Vegas, and then you talk to all the people in Vegas,
33:24and Josh McDaniels was basically the same guy that he was in Denver 10 years prior,
33:28and talking about the relationships and how important it was. He didn't build
33:32those relationships. He didn't foster them in Vegas just like he didn't foster them in Denver.
33:36It's like you want to give the guy a second opportunity, but you also
33:40got to know this guy, he went down the wrong path
33:44the last time. Yeah, you got to be careful. Just two things here
33:48we can touch more on this midweek. Just two things to monitor.
33:52Peter Schrager had the report out for a while, Marcus Freeman and the Bears.
33:56Tom Pelissero had a report supporting that,
34:00essentially saying they're going to have interest there. Again, I mentioned his buyout.
34:04He's a guy who every single team should be calling. I think he's
34:08kind of what you're hoping you get in a Vrabel type.
34:12He's just 38 years old, and not that Vrabel's
34:16old by any means, obviously. I'm just saying there's a known with Vrabel,
34:20positives, any negatives, etc. Marcus Freeman's kind of only positives right now. That's what happens
34:24when you're a young coach like this. So there's that, and then something I'm going to
34:28talk about later in the week. Schefter reported a team's already
34:32called on Mike Tomlin to trade for him.
34:36I think the Jets and other teams should at least call.
34:40I think the Bears and other teams should at least call. The one thing that Tomlin has
34:44not had in a long time as a quarterback, and assume with Caleb,
34:48that defense, he's built for that NFC North type of division that
34:52screams Mike Tomlin. Apparently he has a no trade clause, so just something
34:56to keep a cliffhanger, I guess, at the end here. Just two things
35:00to monitor as we go along, and we'll obviously break down these games.
35:04The bills just go up 10-7 here. Me and Mike want to make sure we're locked in on
35:08these games, but obviously Patriots hire Mike Vrabel, and exciting news
35:12up in Foxborough. Yeah, awesome day today. Three games,
35:16and like I said, we'll get back to you at some point during the course of the week, and as Will
35:20mentioned, especially if it's the Jets
35:24and something big breaks, we'll be right here for you. That's going to wrap up this edition
35:28of the All-32 Pod. He is Will Parkinson. I am Mike Giardi. Thanks for tuning in on a
35:32Sunday. We appreciate you. Like, subscribe, listen, do a great review, do all those
35:36wonderful things, and we'll talk to you again soon. Enjoy the football.