The Scotsman's politics team deliver a short roundup of First Ministers Questions at the Scottish Parliament
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00:00 (upbeat music)
00:02 - Hello, welcome to the Scotsman's Politics Show.
00:09 We're here to wrap up First Minister's Questions.
00:12 It was an interesting session.
00:14 Alistair Grant, I know you're coming to us live
00:16 from Holyrood.
00:18 Probably not the subject that we all expected off the top.
00:21 It was about WhatsApp messages.
00:23 This is something that our Deputy Political Editor,
00:26 Connor Matchell, recorded in the past.
00:28 (indistinct chatter)
00:30 Yeah, so this was brought up by Douglas Ross,
00:32 the Scottish Conservative leader.
00:33 There's a lot of interest in this, actually.
00:35 I can see Douglas Ross actually just out of the corner
00:37 of my eye being interviewed on the TV right now about this.
00:41 And essentially he brought up comments made
00:43 by a senior lawyer at the UK COVID inquiry.
00:47 I believe actually just an hour before
00:48 First Minister's Questions started,
00:50 in which he said the Scottish government had been asked
00:52 for all messages relating to the COVID pandemic
00:56 and said no messages had been received.
00:59 Now I think part of the show is around WhatsApp messages.
01:03 Like you say, Connor Matchell,
01:05 Scotsman's Deputy Political Editor,
01:06 has done a lot of stories around how the government handles
01:09 WhatsApp messages, how ministers conduct government policy,
01:14 conduct government discussions via WhatsApp,
01:17 and the access that the public then have to those messages.
01:20 We expect a level of transparency from the government
01:23 about how decisions are made.
01:25 And WhatsApp is kind of a,
01:27 almost seems like a bit of a grey area
01:28 in terms of how those messages are stored
01:30 and whether or not they're passed on
01:31 in terms of record keeping.
01:33 And I think this is particularly potent
01:35 when you're talking about the COVID pandemic.
01:37 So it was a time when very serious decisions
01:39 that were affecting everyone in Scotland,
01:42 everyone across the UK were being made very quickly.
01:45 They were being made behind the scenes,
01:46 they were being made by officials, by ministers,
01:49 without using those normal processes of government.
01:52 They weren't coming to the Scottish Parliament necessarily
01:54 all the time to see exactly what they were doing.
01:57 Decisions had to be made fast.
01:58 I think people understand that.
02:00 But now when it comes to these inquiries that are going on,
02:02 there's obviously a UK COVID inquiry,
02:04 there's a separate Scottish one as well.
02:06 And it's very much trying to dig into that,
02:08 how decisions were made, what the processes were.
02:12 It's absolutely vital that those messages
02:14 are released to those inquiries
02:17 so we can understand the decision-making processes
02:19 and why decisions were made at certain times
02:22 and not at others.
02:23 And there's also quite a lot of controversy
02:25 around some of those decisions,
02:27 such as that decision to move people out of hospitals
02:31 and into care homes,
02:32 which obviously created a lot of controversy
02:34 at the time of the pandemic.
02:36 So these concerns have been raised in the COVID inquiry
02:40 that messages have not been passed on.
02:41 And Douglas Ross, the Scottish Conservative leader,
02:44 was looking for answers in that.
02:45 He was asking what the delay was,
02:48 what the reason was that messages have not been passed over.
02:51 Humza Yousaf, the First Minister,
02:52 very much saying that the Scottish government
02:54 will fully cooperate with both inquiries,
02:57 that information has been passed on.
02:59 I think he said something along the lines
03:01 of where communications are still being passed on.
03:04 There's an ongoing process.
03:05 Not quite clear what he meant by that.
03:08 But giving assurances,
03:11 particularly to those grieving families out there
03:13 who might be watching this,
03:14 that the government fully intends to cooperate with this.
03:17 But I think Douglas Ross's point of view
03:19 used language such as secrecy,
03:22 he also brought up the prospects,
03:25 the allegation that where messages may have been deleted,
03:28 that would be potentially breaking the law.
03:31 Humza Yousaf again saying he's seeking assurances
03:33 that those do not destroy notices that were sent out,
03:37 those notices asking officials and ministers
03:38 not to destroy any information
03:40 that may be passed over to the inquiry.
03:42 He's seeking assurances that they have been complied with.
03:45 And I think there was actually a press huddle
03:48 with Humza Yousaf, Connor Matchett, my colleague, was at.
03:52 It was taking place just up the stairs behind me
03:53 just as I came onto this call.
03:55 So we'll have information on the Scotsman website
03:58 about what exactly was said on that,
04:00 and if there's any more clarity around this.
04:02 - Did you or have any of your ministers
04:03 or previous ministers ever used auto-delete on WhatsApp?
04:07 - I don't know if any of my ministers
04:08 have used auto-delete on WhatsApp,
04:10 but we don't routinely conduct parliamentary business
04:12 through WhatsApp.
04:14 - I mean, you did, Prime Minister.
04:16 - No, no, no.
04:17 We use WhatsApp to have conversations.
04:20 That's not unusual to anybody else.
04:22 We don't routinely make decisions.
04:25 - Why haven't any of your WhatsApps been put forward?
04:28 - All relevant information that has been asked for
04:30 will be sent across.
04:31 But routinely, routinely decisions weren't made by WhatsApp.
04:36 - They were sent to you.
04:36 - Thank you, sir.
04:37 - It was interesting as well, Alistair,
04:41 that Humza Yousaf said, "Unlike the UK government,
04:44 we don't typically communicate using WhatsApp
04:47 as a message portal."
04:48 And actually, it was one of four names
04:51 that we'd previously covered.
04:53 In terms of government ministers,
04:54 it had been shown they had used WhatsApp,
04:56 and then we'd already covered that.
04:59 So, an interesting detail.
05:01 - Yeah, I mean, I think his language there
05:05 was extremely careful,
05:06 because he came back to twice-nothing cues.
05:08 And I think he said something along the lines of,
05:10 "The Scottish government does not routinely
05:11 make decisions over WhatsApp."
05:13 Obviously, routinely is an important word there.
05:16 And we're not always talking about decisions being made.
05:18 We're also just talking about government policy
05:20 being discussed between officials, between ministers.
05:23 As you say, we know because of stories
05:25 that Conor has done in "The Scotsman" in the past,
05:27 that government ministers do discuss government policy
05:31 over WhatsApp.
05:32 I think Humza Yousaf is actually one of those ministers
05:34 himself that's been named as using WhatsApp in the past.
05:37 So, we know these discussions do happen.
05:40 It's just a case of trying to get to the bottom
05:43 of what exactly was said when,
05:45 and what kind of level of access
05:47 we then have to those messages.
05:48 - You can read all the latest
05:51 on what has come out of the First Minister's questions,
05:54 including what Humza Yousaf had to say for himself,
05:58 at the briefing immediately afterwards
06:00 at scotsman.com shortly.
06:02 Alastair, thanks for joining us.
06:04 Just a quick wrap of what else was discussed
06:06 at First Minister's questions.
06:08 I know that fire service cuts, ongoing cuts,
06:12 there was a demonstration or a rally pre-FMQs
06:15 outside Holyrood as well.
06:16 That came up, that was the topic of attack from Anasawa.
06:20 That issue continues to bubble over.
06:23 And you covered the extent of concerns around the cuts
06:26 just in the past 24 hours, didn't you?
06:28 - Yeah, I did.
06:30 There was a very powerful report
06:32 that was released by the Fire Brigades Union,
06:35 raising concerns about the level of cuts
06:36 that they see have taken place over the last decade
06:39 in the fire service and the impact that that might have.
06:42 And also raising concerns about the budget settlement
06:44 that the fire service has been offered
06:46 and what the impact that will have in the future
06:48 and the potential job losses.
06:50 And actually, just as I was coming into Holyrood today,
06:53 coming in via the public entrance,
06:54 there was a demonstration of firefighters
06:56 going on outside Holyrood.
06:57 They've got a fire engine.
06:59 It's quite a good turnout for them.
07:02 I think it will be a tricky issue
07:04 for the Scottish government.
07:05 You've obviously got concerns
07:06 that have been raised separately by Police Scotland,
07:09 by the Scottish Police Federation,
07:11 about cuts to policing and the impact that has
07:13 on public safety, on the police's ability
07:15 to react to incidents proactively
07:18 and to carry out their normal function.
07:22 Those concerns are very much being raised
07:24 by the fire service too.
07:25 And there's this real sense that cuts,
07:29 that budgetary issues are becoming a real squeeze point
07:32 for the Scottish government.
07:33 We've obviously got the Scottish budget
07:34 coming up in December.
07:36 So a lot of these organisations are now coming out
07:39 and making their case.
07:40 I think the Scottish government will have a very,
07:42 a very tricky job to try and balance the books.
07:44 - Thanks very much for joining us.
07:47 As I say, follow the Politics tab
07:50 on the navigation bar at scotsman.com
07:52 to get all the very latest.
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07:57 Go out and buy a copy of the paper tomorrow
07:59 for all the latest.
08:00 Cheers.
08:02 - Thank you.
08:02 The next item of business is First Minister's Questions.
08:05 At question number one, I call Douglas Ross.
08:08 - Thank you, Presiding Officer.
08:10 In the last hour, Jamie Dawson, KC,
08:13 counsel to the COVID-19 inquiry,
08:16 has explained that the SNP government
08:18 were asked to provide all communications
08:20 related to key decisions made during the pandemic.
08:24 These included all informal messages, including on WhatsApp.
08:29 Mr. Dawson has said, and I quote,
08:32 "No messages were provided.
08:35 "Grieving families deserve answers
08:37 "and full transparency from this government."
08:40 So why has Hamza Yousaf not handed over
08:43 key messages to the inquiry?
08:46 - First Minister.
08:47 - Can I say first and foremost that my thoughts
08:50 continue to remain with all of those families
08:51 that have been bereaved by COVID and affected by COVID.
08:55 This government will cooperate fully
08:57 with both the UK inquiry and the Scottish public inquiry.
09:02 In terms of what we have released
09:05 and what we will provide to the inquiry,
09:07 let me make it clear that any potentially relevant
09:09 information that we hold, be it in WhatsApp,
09:11 be it in email, be it in any correspondence,
09:14 we will hand over, have handed over.
09:16 And of course, if there are concerns
09:19 that have been raised by the inquiry,
09:20 as Douglas Ross has rightly said, have been,
09:23 then we will fully investigate them.
09:25 We will, of course, hand over,
09:26 and we have handed over relevant material.
09:29 There are some messages that we're going to continue
09:31 to provide, but they have to go through
09:35 the appropriate processes.
09:38 So we will continue to hand over those messages.
09:41 We'll continue to cooperate fully
09:43 with the public inquiries, both the UK inquiry
09:46 and the Scottish inquiry.
09:47 And for those concerns that have been raised,
09:49 they will be fully investigated.
09:51 - Douglas Ross.
09:53 - I'm not sure what the First Minister is talking about.
09:55 This is from this morning.
09:57 Surely he's aware of what's happening.
09:59 Jamie Dawson says the Scottish government
10:01 has provided the inquiry with no WhatsApp
10:04 or other informal messaging material,
10:06 either in its own possession or in the possession
10:09 of the individuals whose individual rule nine requests
10:12 are being handled by the Scottish government.
10:15 He also said there is no clear comprehensive response
10:19 emerged in the corporate statements
10:21 from the Scottish government.
10:23 But in May this year, asked a direct question
10:26 by a journalist, Humza Yousaf said,
10:29 if a request for messages, including WhatsApp was made,
10:32 the Scottish government should be absolutely open
10:36 and transparent.
10:37 In June, he said in this chamber, and I quote,
10:40 "WhatsApp messages, emails, signal messages,
10:43 "telegram messages, or whatever, will absolutely
10:47 "be handed over to the COVID inquiries
10:50 "and handed over to them in full."
10:53 The inquiry has heard this morning
10:55 that that has not happened.
10:56 So where are the messages?
10:58 Where have they gone?
11:00 And has the Scottish government deleted any messages?
11:03 - First Minister.
11:05 - The Scottish government did not make decisions
11:08 through WhatsApp.
11:09 That's not what we routinely did.
11:10 I know that was very different
11:12 to what was being intimated by the UK government.
11:15 - Members, let's hear the First Minister.
11:17 - Routinely, decisions were not made over WhatsApp.
11:21 And I have, and I will continue to say
11:23 to every single government minister,
11:26 every single government official,
11:28 that we must comply with the inquiry fully.
11:32 So if there is relevant information
11:34 that has been passed on,
11:35 I know the concerns that were raised this morning.
11:38 Therefore, I've asked the Solicitor General
11:40 just this morning to internally investigate
11:42 whether there, of course, are any other messages
11:45 that have to be handed over.
11:47 So messages have been, whether it's WhatsApp,
11:49 whether it's email, whether it's correspondence,
11:52 all that information has been provided.
11:54 I myself have provided a statement, of course,
11:57 to the inquiry as well.
11:59 But I do note the concerns that have been raised
12:01 and can give an absolute assurance
12:02 to the families listening,
12:03 particularly those families that have been bereaved by COVID,
12:06 where we hold any relevant information,
12:08 that will be passed on.
12:10 - Douglas Ross.
12:11 - But it's not.
12:12 That's what we are hearing this morning.
12:15 And it shouldn't take the Solicitor General to get involved.
12:18 The First Minister must know what is required
12:21 and must have heard, as I did,
12:23 what the KC, the council, for the inquiry has said.
12:27 And despite, and I'm not going to say deliberately,
12:30 maybe inadvertently, that the First Minister
12:33 misled Parliament there, because we know,
12:36 I think that's okay to say,
12:37 because we know that SNP government ministers
12:40 do routinely use WhatsApp to discuss government matters.
12:45 At the end of last year, it was revealed
12:47 that four SNP ministers were using WhatsApp
12:50 to conduct government business.
12:52 Neil Gray, Kevin Stewart, Marie Todd,
12:55 and Hamza Yousaf himself.
12:59 The council to the COVID inquiry has also revealed today
13:02 that witness statements, and this is a quote,
13:05 "suggest that informal communication,
13:07 "such as WhatsApp messages,
13:09 "were used by key decision makers
13:11 "to discuss matters around the progress
13:13 "of the pandemic in Scotland."
13:16 And this is a quote from the council,
13:19 "decisions that the Scottish Government might have to take."
13:23 And crucially, one Scottish Government official
13:26 has voluntarily handed over WhatsApp messages
13:29 from the pandemic, proving that they exist, First Minister.
13:32 So there is no excuse for not releasing them.
13:35 So why is this information being withheld
13:38 from grieving families, the inquiry,
13:41 and everyone who deserves answers?
13:43 (audience applauding)
13:44 - First Minister.
13:45 - That is a complete mischaracterization.
13:47 And of course, I did not inadvertently mislead the chamber.
13:51 I didn't say that there's never been discussions over WhatsApp.
13:54 What I said is that we didn't routinely make decisions
13:57 over WhatsApp, which was very different, of course,
13:59 to what the UK government has done.
14:01 - Let us hear the First Minister.
14:02 - What I would expect Scottish Government ministers to do,
14:05 and Scottish Government officials to do,
14:07 is comply with our mobile messaging apps usage and policy.
14:11 That policy, I believe, I wrote to every single member
14:14 of this chamber, of this parliament, with.
14:16 Now, what I'd also expect, of course,
14:17 every single minister and government official to do
14:20 is to, of course, comply with the do not destroy notices
14:24 that were provided by the UK inquiry.
14:26 Now, there has been concerns that have been raised.
14:28 Douglas Ross is absolutely right to reiterate those concerns
14:33 that were raised on behalf of the committee.
14:35 I can only say to the families listening
14:37 that we will take on board those concerns.
14:38 We will internally investigate fully,
14:40 because my understanding, certainly as I stand here today,
14:43 is that routine information, relevant information,
14:48 forgive me, has been passed over.
14:50 But, of course, if there is any concerns raised,
14:52 they will be fully investigated,
14:54 and I will ask the Solicitor General to investigate them.
14:56 And, of course, I will update this parliament
14:58 on any of those investigations.
15:00 - Douglas Ross.
15:01 - The First Minister was speaking about the letter he sent.
15:03 I've got it here, on the 20th of July.
15:05 He sent it to all MSPs.
15:07 He states, "I should reiterate here
15:09 "that the Scottish Government is committed
15:10 "to openness and transparency.
15:12 "We are cooperating fully
15:14 "with both the UK and Scottish inquiries,"
15:16 which is totally the opposite
15:18 to what we've heard from Jamie Dawson this morning.
15:21 SNP members are saying no.
15:23 The council to the inquiry has said
15:25 they have not received what they asked for
15:27 from the Scottish Government.
15:29 And the Scottish Government does have record management policies
15:33 requiring officials to retain records.
15:36 The SNP business manager, George Adam,
15:39 told this parliament in December last year,
15:43 this is a quote,
15:44 "All recorded information that is held
15:46 "by ministers or officials
15:47 "that relates to the business of the Scottish Government
15:50 "is subject to freedom of information law,
15:52 "irrespective of its format
15:54 "or the platform on which it is held."
15:58 The COVID inquiry also has powers to compel evidence.
16:02 Refusing to hand over this information
16:04 would not only be an insult to grieving families,
16:06 it would not only be a shocking display of secrecy,
16:11 it would potentially break the law.
16:15 So will the First Minister confirm
16:17 that he will be transparent
16:18 and release every bit of information
16:21 this Government holds?
16:22 And does he accept that if any messages have been deleted,
16:26 it would be illegal?
16:28 First Minister.
16:29 (audience applauding)
16:30 - It is not this Government which has broken the law
16:33 or will break the law.
16:35 We will comply with not only the law,
16:37 we will comply and cooperate fully
16:39 with both the UK inquiry
16:41 and also the Scottish public inquiry as well.
16:46 And so we have passed over
16:48 what we believe to be relevant information.
16:50 That being said,
16:51 - First Minister. - I'm sorry,
16:52 - First Minister. - Douglas Ross is shouting
16:54 - First Minister. - nothing.
16:55 - If you might just give me a moment.
16:56 Question has been put to the First Minister.
16:58 Let's hear the First Minister respond
17:00 with no other comment.
17:01 First Minister.
17:02 - Douglas Ross is saying nothing has been handed over.
17:04 That is incorrect.
17:05 My own statement to the COVID inquiry
17:07 is over 100 pages long.
17:09 So to suggest that there has not been
17:11 any information passed over,
17:13 that is simply incorrect.
17:15 What we are doing and what we have done
17:17 is not just complied with our own policy.
17:20 What I'm seeking assurance is
17:22 on the back of this morning's comments from council
17:25 is to make sure that the DNDN notice,
17:26 do not destroy notice,
17:28 has been fully complied with,
17:29 not just by ministers,
17:30 but by every relevant Scottish Government official.
17:33 So we take seriously the concerns
17:35 that have been raised by council.
17:37 This government will undoubtedly fully cooperate
17:40 with both the UK inquiry
17:42 and both the Scottish public inquiry too.
17:45 - Thank you.
17:46 Question number two, Anas Sarwar.
17:47 - Thank you, Presiding Officer.
17:48 In the past week, two major fires
17:50 have brought misery and heartache to families
17:53 who have lost everything.
17:54 In Lochgelly, a fire ripped through
17:56 a four-story block of flats,
17:58 and in East Kilbride, six homes were destroyed.
18:01 According to the FBU,
18:02 both of these fires raged on
18:03 because of delays due to cuts in services.
18:06 And today, one firefighter has told The Courier
18:09 that they were 15 minutes later
18:10 than they could have been to a second fire in Fife,
18:13 and that it's only a matter of time
18:14 before these cuts put lives at risk.
18:17 He said, "We all want to do our best
18:19 "by the communities we serve,
18:20 "but it's difficult when we have one hand
18:22 "tied behind our back."
18:24 So, First Minister, why can't you see
18:26 that these cuts are putting lives at risk?
18:28 - First Minister.
18:29 - Can I say to Anas Sarwar that first and foremost,
18:32 let me pay tribute to each and every single
18:34 one of our firefighters
18:35 who do an incredible job in Scotland.
18:38 I know that from my position, of course, as First Minister,
18:40 but previously as Justice Secretary, too.
18:43 When it comes to Scottish Fire and Rescue Service,
18:45 I don't agree about the point being made
18:49 in relation to cuts,
18:51 because despite the very difficult financial circumstances
18:54 due to UK Government austerity,
18:56 we're providing SFRS with more than
18:58 £368 million this year.
19:00 That's an increase of £14.4 million on 2022-23.
19:05 If I look at how many firefighters we have
19:07 in comparison to other parts of the UK,
19:09 as of March of last year,
19:11 there were 11.3 firefighters per 10,000
19:14 of the population of Scotland.
19:15 That compares to 6.1 in England and 8.4 in Wales.
19:20 If I look at the pay, I'm pleased to say that
19:23 firefighters accepted an improved two-year pay offer
19:27 of 7% for 2022-23 and 5% for 2023-24.
19:32 When it comes, importantly,
19:33 and this I think is the most crucial statistic
19:36 for the public who are interested in their safety,
19:39 that of course between 2011 and 2012
19:43 and 2021-22, over that 10-year period,
19:46 the number of recorded fires has dropped by 14%.
19:51 So we continue to invest,
19:52 increase in fact the investment
19:54 in Scottish Fire and Rescue Service,
19:55 and continue to have more firefighters per head
19:57 than other parts of the UK,
19:59 but crucially fires that are going down
20:02 because of the investment that we've made.
20:03 - Anas Sarwar.
20:04 - In short, Presiding Officer,
20:06 First Minister is saying firefighters are wrong
20:08 and he's burning his head in the sand.
20:10 The fire service budget is set by the government
20:13 and it has fallen by 22% in real terms
20:17 over the past decade.
20:18 And the Chief Fire Officer has been clear
20:20 where the service is headed.
20:22 He has said that 780 firefighter posts
20:25 between 20 and 25% of the workforce
20:28 could go if the government doesn't change course.
20:31 He went on to say that this would impact on response times.
20:35 When fighting fires, every second counts.
20:38 So why does the First Minister think he knows better
20:41 than firefighters on the ground
20:42 and the Chief Fire Officer about how to keep people safe?
20:46 - First Minister.
20:46 (audience applauding)
20:49 What I'm saying to Anas Sarwar is as a government,
20:52 we have of course invested, increased our investment
20:55 in Scottish Fire and Rescue Service.
20:56 That's a fact.
20:57 This year, we've increased the funding by 14%.
21:01 We have more fire officers per head,
21:03 per 10,000 of the population than other parts of the UK.
21:07 And crucially, fires, the number of fires,
21:10 the incidence of fires are going down.
21:12 And that is what of course the public care most about.
21:15 And I will also quote Chief Fire Officer David Farris
21:19 because Anas Sarwar's right, there are changes being made.
21:21 There are reforms being made in relation
21:23 to the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service.
21:24 And in relation to those reforms,
21:27 Assistant Chief Fire Officer David Farris said,
21:29 and I quote, "We're trying to make sure
21:31 "we get a fire service that is fit
21:33 "for the communities of Scotland in the future.
21:35 "This gives us an opportunity to rebalance
21:37 "and reshape the service in a way
21:39 "that meets the 21st century."
21:41 And I think that's absolutely right.
21:42 So I trust the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service
21:45 to make those changes and do so in a way
21:47 that continues to keep people safe.
21:49 I'm not sure why Anas Sarwar doesn't.
21:51 - Anas Sarwar.
21:52 - Trusting firefighters.
21:53 I think it's me that's standing up here
21:55 and speaking for firefighters who are camping
21:56 out in this Parliament rather than the First Minister.
21:59 Perhaps he wants to go outside and talk to them.
22:01 A 22% fall in real terms.
22:04 This government's financial mismanagement
22:05 is already affecting every part of a fire service
22:08 that is suffering from a decade of neglect.
22:11 In the past 10 years, hundreds of firefighters
22:14 have been lost and now a dozen appliances
22:16 are being removed and the First Minister
22:18 is ignoring warnings that his government
22:20 is putting lives at risk.
22:22 In the last few months alone, these changes
22:25 have affected fire stations in every corner of Scotland.
22:28 Dundee, Greenock, Dunfermline, Granrothes,
22:32 Methil, Perth, Hamilton, Kirkcaldy, Edinburgh
22:36 and four in Glasgow.
22:37 If that's not cuts, First Minister, what is?
22:40 What the single fire service,
22:42 when the single fire service was created,
22:44 the SNP said that it would, and I quote,
22:46 "not result in cutting frontline services."
22:49 What was that, SNP spin or SNP incompetence?
22:53 First Minister.
22:55 Let's again, instead of sticking to the spin
22:58 that Anas Sarwar is continuing to articulate,
23:03 let me stick to the facts.
23:05 The facts are that since 2017-18,
23:08 there's been substantial year-on-year increases
23:11 in funding to support the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service.
23:15 On top of that, we have more firefighters per head,
23:18 per 10,000 of the population, than other parts of the UK.
23:23 Of course, fires are going down.
23:25 In terms of the temporary withdrawal of appliances,
23:30 and Anas Sarwar is right,
23:31 there has been a temporary decision
23:33 to withdraw some appliances.
23:35 My understanding is that's 10 appliances
23:38 of their 635 operational appliances.
23:41 That's 1.5%.
23:44 And when I look at what the independent,
23:47 His Majesty's Chief Inspectorate of Fire and Rescue Services
23:50 has said, they've provided absolute assurance
23:53 that the SFRS temporary changes
23:56 are based on a robust analysis of activity levels,
23:58 historical demand, and importantly,
24:00 the ability to supplement any initial response
24:04 within, and this is the crucial bit,
24:06 an acceptable timeframe.
24:08 So we continue to invest in our fire service.
24:10 And I want to thank and pay tribute to the FBU,
24:12 to our firefighters on the ground,
24:14 and I'll continue to give them a promise
24:15 that so long as we are in government,
24:17 we'll continue to ensure that they get the investment
24:19 that they need to keep our public safe.
24:22 - Question number three, Alex Cole-Hamilton.
24:24 - Good evening, officer.
24:25 To ask the First Minister when the Cabinet will next meet.
24:28 - First Minister. - Tuesday.
24:30 - Alex Cole-Hamilton.
24:31 - Vast numbers of people are being forced
24:33 to call emergency dental helplines
24:36 because they can't find an NHS dentist.
24:38 An investigation I'm publishing today
24:41 shows that that happened almost 16,000 times last year
24:45 in Fife alone.
24:46 Now that's hardly surprising,
24:48 given that there is just one Fife practice
24:50 accepting new NHS patients.
24:53 Across Scotland, people are desperate.
24:55 Some are even resorting to DIY dentistry.
24:58 The First Minister's recovery plan promised
25:01 to abolish NHS dentistry charges altogether,
25:04 but they're not going away.
25:05 Next week, they're going up.
25:07 Some will even double.
25:08 And what the government didn't tell you
25:10 is that there are new charges
25:12 for those emergency appointments
25:13 and things like denture repairs.
25:15 So can I ask the First Minister,
25:17 why are people paying more for less under the SNP?
25:21 - First Minister.
25:22 - Well, first of all, of course,
25:23 the word that Alex Cole-Hamilton did not mention
25:26 in his question, sorry, was the word pandemic.
25:29 There has been a significant impact
25:31 because of the pandemic on our dental services,
25:32 not just here in Scotland, but right across the UK.
25:35 Alex Cole-Hamilton was also incorrect
25:38 in saying that we haven't made progress
25:39 in relation to removing dental charges.
25:41 We have done so for young people,
25:43 for those that are under the age of 26.
25:46 And we, of course, look forward
25:47 to making continued progress.
25:49 In terms of growing the NHS,
25:51 the NHS dental workforce in Scotland,
25:53 we have 55 dentists per 100,000 of the population.
25:57 That's compared to 43 per 100,000 in England.
26:00 So we are investing in our NHS dental services.
26:05 I'm more than happy, and the cabinet secretary
26:07 would be more than happy to write to Alex Cole-Hamilton
26:09 with details of the progress that we have made.
26:12 And crucially, when it comes to the oral health
26:15 of our young people in particular,
26:17 where I know all of us have an interest,
26:19 there has been significant progress as well.
26:21 It will, of course, take time,
26:23 but what I can absolutely guarantee
26:24 is not just the public,
26:25 but those working in our dental sector
26:28 right across Scotland,
26:29 is that we'll continue to invest in dentistry
26:31 in here in Scotland,
26:32 so we can continue to improve outcomes
26:34 for patients right across the country.
26:36 - Question number four, Clare Haughey.
26:38 - To ask the First Minister,
26:39 in light of the launch of Scotland's new
26:41 HIV anti-stigma campaign,
26:43 in partnership with the Terence Higgins Trust,
26:46 what action the Scottish Government is taking
26:48 to eliminate new transmissions of HIV.
26:50 - First Minister, we are delighted to partner
26:52 with the Terence Higgins Trust,
26:54 other HIV stakeholders,
26:56 in this important anti-stigma campaign.
26:58 Tackling stigma is one of the many ways
27:00 to address HIV transmission in Scotland
27:03 by reducing barriers to testing and treatment,
27:05 as well as improving the lives of people living with HIV.
27:08 We remain absolutely committed
27:10 to eliminating HIV transmission in Scotland by 2030.
27:13 Our HIV transmission elimination delivery plan,
27:16 developed by the Deputy Chief Medical Officer
27:18 and stakeholders,
27:20 will prioritise the recommendations
27:22 for HIV elimination that we published last year.
27:24 Our aim is to publish this plan in the coming months.
27:27 - Clare Haughey.
27:28 - I thank the First Minister for that answer.
27:30 Stigma often presents a barrier
27:32 to people accessing HIV testing,
27:35 and this anti-stigma campaign
27:36 is an exciting milestone in Scotland's mission
27:39 to improve the lives of those living with HIV
27:42 and to update public attitudes.
27:44 A first of its type in the UK,
27:45 the campaign will reflect the realities
27:47 of living with HIV in Scotland today,
27:49 where if an individual is on the right treatment,
27:51 they can live a long, happy and healthy life
27:53 and cannot pass the virus on to others.
27:56 Does the First Minister agree with me
27:57 that tackling stigma around HIV
28:00 will help Scotland reach zero new transmissions of the virus
28:03 and will improve and save lives?
28:05 - First Minister.
28:06 - I do absolutely agree with Clare Haughey on that point.
28:08 Tackling stigma is absolutely fundamental
28:10 to achieving our HIV transmission elimination goal
28:14 by 2030.
28:15 The campaign that Clare Haughey referenced
28:18 in her original question
28:19 is just one way of addressing that stigma.
28:22 We're also working with NHS Education Scotland
28:24 to produce training materials for non-HIV specialists
28:27 in the NHS to improve the detection and diagnosis of HIV.
28:32 And we're also working with Waverley Care
28:33 to support fast-track cities,
28:35 which provide stigma-related training activities
28:38 for the health and social care workforce.
28:40 Almost half of the population in Scotland
28:45 would be ashamed to tell other people
28:47 that they were HIV positive.
28:49 So work is still required, very much required,
28:52 to challenge misconceptions
28:53 while also improving access to testing,
28:56 to preventative treatment
28:57 and also to support people living with HIV.
29:00 And these will be prioritised
29:01 in our HIV transmission elimination delivery plan.
29:04 - Carol Mochan.
29:06 - Thank you, Presiding Officer.
29:08 Can I say that this new partnership is welcome
29:10 and we must do all we can
29:12 to eliminate new transmissions of HIV.
29:15 Therefore, can I ask the First Minister
29:17 for a progress update on commitments made
29:19 by the Scottish Government on World AIDS Day 2022,
29:23 including the pilot of an e-prep clinic,
29:25 which would act as an important and significant step
29:28 towards ending stigma
29:30 and giving people greater control
29:31 over their own healthcare?
29:33 - First Minister.
29:34 - I will ensure that the member,
29:36 I will ensure that we write to the member
29:38 with full details in terms of an update,
29:41 but Scotland has been world leading
29:43 in the implementation of HIV pre-exposure prophylaxis prep
29:48 since the introduction of our programme in 2017.
29:51 We do have to recognise,
29:52 and the point is well made by the member,
29:55 that prep has to be as accessible as possible
29:57 to communities and for those who require it
30:00 in communities up and down Scotland.
30:02 Work is underway, very much underway,
30:04 to pilot the online prep clinic.
30:07 £400,000 of funding has been provided
30:10 for the development of this project,
30:12 which is currently in the important development stage
30:14 and is on track to be taken forward
30:16 during 2024 and beyond.
30:18 But I'll ensure a fuller update is provided to the member.
30:21 - Question number five, Meghan Gallacher.
30:23 - Thank you, Presiding Officer.
30:25 To ask the First Minister what the Scottish Government's
30:27 response is to reported concerns
30:29 that parents are having to give up their jobs
30:31 due to childcare costs.
30:32 - First Minister.
30:34 Early learning and childcare plays a crucial role,
30:36 not just in children's development,
30:38 but in helping parents, particularly mums,
30:40 to return to work.
30:42 Our current offer is, of course,
30:43 the most generous in the UK,
30:45 with all three and four-year-olds
30:46 and around a quarter of two-year-olds
30:48 entitled to 1140 hours of childcare each year.
30:52 Independent research shows that 88%,
30:54 almost nine out of 10 parents with a three to five-year-old
30:58 were satisfied that they could access childcare
31:01 in a way that meets their specific needs.
31:03 But I do recognise we have to, of course,
31:05 go further to support more parents
31:07 to find or, indeed, to stay and work.
31:09 That's why in the programme for government that I set out,
31:11 I set out my plans to improve childcare,
31:15 the childcare offer, to expand the childcare offer,
31:17 to work with our partners to help 13,000 or more children
31:21 and families access that childcare
31:23 by the end of this Parliament.
31:25 - Meghan Gallacher.
31:26 - Presiding Officer, childcare costs are one reason
31:29 why so many women choose not to start a family.
31:32 Families with children are having to cut down
31:34 on essential items because they cannot afford
31:36 to work and pay for childcare.
31:38 This is why the rollout of free childcare is so important.
31:42 It's not a luxury, it's a tool to get parents into work
31:45 and our economy moving.
31:47 So given the Scottish Government have not announced anything
31:49 on childcare since the programme for government,
31:52 how will he reassure women that they won't end up pregnant,
31:54 then screwed by this government?
31:56 - First Minister.
32:01 The programme for government, of course, was just last month
32:05 and I'm more than happy to provide an update
32:08 to Meghan Gallacher as we make substantial progress.
32:11 I go back to the point, of course, that in Scotland
32:13 we have the most generous childcare offer in the UK.
32:18 What I would also say is one of the important points
32:20 that I mentioned in my programme for government
32:22 is of course the sustainability of the PVI sector.
32:26 Scotland is the only part of the UK to pay staff
32:29 who are delivering funded ELC the real living wage.
32:32 We're committed to providing the necessary funding
32:35 to increase pay to £12 an hour for staff
32:38 who deliver funded ELC provision in the private,
32:41 voluntary and independent sector.
32:43 So we are investing in that most generous childcare offer.
32:46 I'm sure other parts, other governments in the UK
32:48 might want to follow Scotland's lead.
32:49 - Martin Whitfield.
32:51 - I'm very grateful, Presiding Officer.
32:56 The First Minister will be aware that the data
32:58 that was produced by Pregnant Then Screwed campaign
33:01 is damning.
33:02 So does the First Minister share the confidence
33:04 that the Scottish Government ministers do
33:07 that the private sector childcare nursery model
33:09 is still viable even with the proposed
33:12 Scottish Government funding?
33:13 - First Minister.
33:14 - I did see that report and I want to thank Pregnant
33:18 But Screwed, and Screwed, but for the information
33:21 they provide in the report that they have done.
33:23 That is why I was keen to put on record
33:27 that we do recognise there are challenges,
33:28 particularly in the PVI sector.
33:30 I think we all recognise that in our conversations
33:33 with the private, voluntary and independent sector.
33:35 That's why we are going to be providing,
33:37 and we will be providing funding to increase pay
33:41 to £12 an hour for staff who deliver ELC provision.
33:44 But I do go back to the point that I made
33:46 to Megan Gallacher a moment ago,
33:49 that through independent research,
33:51 and I stress the word independent,
33:53 it shows that 88% of parents with a three to five year old
33:57 were satisfied that they could access childcare
33:59 in a way that meets their needs.
34:00 But I do recognise the point the member raises
34:02 about the sustainability of the sector.
34:04 That's why I am absolutely committed to work
34:07 with the PVI sector to ensure that we have
34:08 a sustainable ELC provision going forward.
34:11 - Willie Rennie.
34:12 - I'm afraid what the Government's done so far
34:16 on the PVI sector isn't enough.
34:18 I think the First Minister knows there's an exodus
34:21 of experienced staff from the private,
34:23 and voluntary, and independent sector.
34:26 And he can't just do the £12 an hour living wage.
34:29 He needs to increase the fee rates,
34:31 or we're going to have a sector that's just not sustainable.
34:34 He promised that in the leadership contest.
34:37 Is he going to deliver?
34:38 - First Minister.
34:40 - Again, of course, we will update the Parliament
34:41 in terms of our plans around the budget,
34:43 of course, in due course at the end of this year.
34:47 It's fair to say that overall capacity
34:49 of the number of registered places
34:51 across the whole childcare sector remains stable,
34:53 and has remained stable between March 2020 and March 2023.
34:58 And we know from the delivery data that we collect
35:01 from council specifically, the number of hours
35:03 that services offer has increased.
35:07 But I do take the points that there are challenges
35:09 around the sustainability of childcare.
35:12 That's why we will continue to invest,
35:14 continue to ensure that we have the most generous offer
35:17 than anywhere else in the UK.
35:18 - Question number six, Jackie Baillie.
35:21 To ask the First Minister what steps are being taken
35:24 to eradicate long waiting times for NHS treatment
35:28 in light of Public Health Scotland data
35:30 showing that over 1,500 patients
35:33 have waited more than three years.
35:35 - First Minister.
35:36 - Well, excessively long waits are, of course, unacceptable.
35:39 We're working hard to drive down those longest waits,
35:42 and we've already seen a significant reduction
35:44 since targets were announced last July.
35:46 The latest Public Health Scotland data shows
35:49 that 73% of inpatient day case specialties
35:52 had less than 10 patients waiting more than three years,
35:56 and only eight had 10 or more.
35:59 This is welcome progress,
36:00 but there's undoubtedly more to do,
36:02 which is why in each of the next three years,
36:05 we will provide an extra 100 million pounds
36:08 to accelerate treatment for patients
36:10 and reduce inpatient and day case waiting lists
36:12 by an estimated 100,000 patients.
36:15 This investment will allow us to maximise capacity,
36:18 build far greater resilience into the system,
36:21 and deliver those year-on-year reductions
36:23 in the number of patients
36:24 who have waited far too long for treatment.
36:26 - Jackie Baillie.
36:27 - Let's talk about people, not percentages.
36:30 And it is true, in July last year,
36:31 the First Minister announced a series of targets
36:34 for completely eradicating long waits for treatment
36:37 by September 2022.
36:40 Not a single one of those targets has been met.
36:43 In fact, instead of being zero as promised,
36:46 there are a shocking 6,831 Scots
36:50 waiting more than two years.
36:52 His recent announcement of 300 million pounds
36:55 over three years is expected to treat 100,000 people.
36:59 The waiting list sits at 800,000 people, and it's growing.
37:04 Both the BMA and RCN have been scathing
37:07 about the total failure to acknowledge the workforce crisis,
37:11 and even his own economy minister admitted
37:13 that they had no idea how it will all be funded.
37:16 So, Presiding Officer, when will the First Minister
37:19 end the 800,000 people on the waiting list?
37:23 And in light of the SNP's failure to deliver
37:26 on existing promises on waiting times,
37:29 why should patients believe them now?
37:32 - First Minister.
37:33 - Again, Jackie Baillie, of course,
37:36 does not acknowledge the impact that the global pandemic
37:40 has had on health services right across the UK.
37:43 Of course, in Scotland, but in health services
37:46 right across the United Kingdom.
37:48 And of course, there are differences
37:49 in how we record waiting times right across the UK.
37:52 Waiting times in England and Wales,
37:54 they're measured by referral to treatment time.
37:56 That's the 18-week target, which, as I say,
37:58 they're not directly comparable
38:00 to Scotland's treatment time guarantee.
38:01 But nonetheless, when we look at the data
38:04 from the 30th of June this year,
38:06 it shows that there was 122 patients waiting per 1,000
38:11 of the population for the treatment time guarantee
38:13 and new outpatient appointments here in Scotland.
38:15 So that's 122 per 1,000.
38:17 That's fewer than in England,
38:18 about 134 patients per 1,000 are on the RTT waiting list.
38:23 And in Wales, the figure is 243 per 1,000.
38:28 My point is, while acknowledging there are differences
38:31 in ways that those figures are measured,
38:34 that the global pandemic has impacted health services
38:38 right across the UK.
38:39 We have made significant reductions.
38:41 The number of people waiting over two years
38:42 for new outpatient appointments is down by 59%
38:46 when it comes to those waits of over two years.
38:49 And when it comes to those people who have been waiting
38:51 as inpatients for longer than two years,
38:54 then that has reduced also by 28%
38:56 since targets were announced.
38:57 So we'll continue our record investment in the NHS.
39:00 We'll continue to ensure that our staff
39:02 is at historically high and record levels.
39:05 And we'll continue to make sure, of course,
39:07 that our NHS staff remain the best paid
39:09 anywhere else in the UK.
39:10 - Sandesh Gulhane.
39:12 - Given the unacceptably long secondary care wait times,
39:16 desperate patients are forced to continue to see GPs,
39:19 placing greater strain on primary care
39:22 and taking up appointments,
39:23 forcing new issues from patients to wait,
39:26 leading to them going to A&E in desperation.
39:30 This is a system-wide cycle of despair
39:35 that has contributed to record deaths this winter.
39:38 You've spoken about surgical waiting times,
39:41 but what about our patients waiting for medical clinics,
39:44 chronic pain management, respiratory or cardiology?
39:47 What tangible changes are you making specifically for them?
39:52 - Always through the chair, please, Mr Gulhane.
39:54 First Minister.
39:56 - Well, first and foremost,
39:57 that is exactly why we're investing
39:58 an additional 300 million pounds
40:00 to reduce waiting lists for patients
40:02 that have been waiting far too long.
40:04 But Sandesh Gulhane asked the question, what are we doing?
40:07 We're doing everything we possibly can,
40:09 our NHS staff are doing everything they possibly can
40:11 to increase activity in order to aid the recovery.
40:14 Just, I'll give Sandesh Gulhane one example of that.
40:18 When we look at inpatient day case activity for quarter two,
40:22 it was the highest since the start of the pandemic.
40:25 In fact, it was the sixth quarterly increase in a row
40:28 with 58,813 people, patients being seen in quarter two.
40:33 So we are increasing the activity,
40:36 but what we're also doing is making sure
40:38 that we increase the workforce where we can.
40:41 So we have had recently historically high levels
40:44 of NHS staff and we're making sure
40:45 that they continue to be the best paid.
40:47 And of course, what will help us
40:49 in relation to that NHS activity
40:51 is to make sure that no NHS worker,
40:53 be it a doctor or a nurse or any of our NHS staff
40:57 feels like they have to go on strike
40:59 because they're not being fairly paid.
41:01 So this government will continue to make sure
41:03 that our NHS staff are the best paid in the whole of the UK.
41:07 - Thank you.
41:07 We move to general and constituency supplementaries
41:11 and I call on Rona Mackay.
41:13 - Thank you, Presiding Officer.
41:14 Can the First Minister outline how the newly announced
41:17 fund to leave will support women fleeing
41:19 an abusive relationship?
41:20 First Minister.
41:22 - The new 500,000 pound fund to leave pilot
41:25 will help reduce the financial burden on women
41:28 who can receive up to 1000 pounds to pay for the essentials
41:31 that they and their children need,
41:32 for example, for rent, be it for clothing.
41:35 The fund is to support women experiencing domestic abuse,
41:39 who, as we all know, face many challenges,
41:41 many difficulties, including financial barriers
41:44 when they plan to leave abusive partners.
41:46 It is vital that women are able to access the support
41:49 that they need when they need it.
41:51 And this can be through local authorities,
41:53 a local women's aid group,
41:55 or indeed partners involved in delivering the fund.
41:58 I would always urge any women experiencing domestic abuse
42:01 or violence to reach out for support available
42:04 through Scotland's domestic abuse and forced marriage helpline.
42:08 - Russell Finlay.
42:09 - Thank you, Presiding Officer.
42:11 Claire Ingalls was tortured and murdered in her own home,
42:16 leaving behind a young son.
42:18 Fiona and Ian Ingalls have found the strength
42:21 to be here today, 24 hours after their daughter's killer
42:26 was jailed.
42:27 They are here for answers.
42:29 Why was a violent criminal with dozens of convictions
42:32 granted bail not just once or twice, but five times?
42:37 And since Claire's murder,
42:39 why has the SNP government passed a law
42:42 that will make it even harder to remand criminals in custody?
42:47 And will Humza Yousaf commit to an independent,
42:51 robust, and transparent inquiry?
42:54 - First Minister.
42:56 - First and foremost, my thoughts are very much
43:02 with Ian and Fiona, Claire's parents.
43:05 I cannot imagine the trauma and the grief
43:07 that they are going through.
43:08 There cannot be anything more unnatural in this world
43:11 than to have to bury your child.
43:13 So I extend the condolences and the sympathies
43:16 of this government to Ian and Fiona.
43:20 I will, forgive me, Presiding Officer,
43:21 for your indulgence, take a bit of time
43:22 to answer some of the questions that Russell Finlay
43:25 has posed on behalf of the family.
43:28 First and foremost, it is appropriate for me to say
43:31 that, of course, decisions about bail and remand
43:32 are for the independent judiciary,
43:34 for the independent courts to determine.
43:36 They are not for the First Minister or, indeed,
43:39 any government or, indeed, any politician
43:41 to interfere in or intervene in.
43:44 In terms of the Bail and Release Act,
43:46 I do not agree with the characterisation,
43:48 Russell Finlay's characterisation.
43:51 When I look at the Bail and Release Act,
43:54 it is, of course, for the first time
43:56 that the act makes clear that the court
43:58 should specifically consider the victim's safety,
44:00 which includes both physical and psychological harm
44:04 when applying the new bail test.
44:06 So that is, for the first time, explicit within the act.
44:10 So victim safety is absolutely at the heart
44:13 of any decision that should be made
44:15 around bail and remand.
44:17 In terms of an independent inquiry,
44:20 as Russell Finlay has asked for,
44:23 he knows that I cannot intervene or interfere
44:25 in the decisions of the judiciary,
44:27 given the concerns that have been raised
44:29 by Russell Finlay, that have been raised
44:31 by Iain and Fiona.
44:32 I will, of course, convey those concerns directly
44:35 both to the Lord President and, indeed,
44:37 the Lord Advocate when it comes to
44:39 prosecutorial decisions and decisions
44:41 to either oppose or accept bail conditions.
44:46 It will be for them to, of course,
44:48 appropriately respond, but I cannot demand
44:50 an investigation into a decision that has been made
44:52 by the independent judiciary,
44:54 or certainly it would be unwise for me to do so
44:57 because that would be seen undoubtedly
44:58 as interference with a decision made
45:01 by the independent judiciary.
45:02 I will end by saying that this dreadful case,
45:06 this tragic case, reminds us of the need
45:08 to do more to tackle not just domestic abuse,
45:12 but, indeed, domestic homicide.
45:14 And that's why the Scottish Government
45:15 is committed to developing a multi-agency
45:17 domestic homicide review model
45:19 in partnership with key stakeholders,
45:21 which I will give more information to Russell Finlay
45:23 and to any other member that has an interest.
45:26 - Mercedes Fialba.
45:27 - I remind members of my register of interest
45:32 as a member of Unite the Union.
45:34 Today it was announced that Newman Bonnard,
45:36 the company set up earlier this year
45:38 to acquire historic Dundee textile manufacturer
45:41 Bonnard Yarns, is closing, risking the livelihoods
45:44 of 57 workers and their families.
45:47 Can I invite the First Minister to take this opportunity
45:49 to join the provisional liquidators
45:51 in asking that any party who has an interest
45:54 in acquiring the business please contact them?
45:57 And will the First Minister join me
45:59 in fighting to save these important
46:01 manufacturing jobs in Dundee?
46:04 - First Minister.
46:05 - I do share Mercedes Fialba's clear disappointment
46:09 to hear that Newman Bonnard Limited
46:10 has gone into liquidation.
46:12 My immediate thoughts, of course, are with the staff
46:14 and with their families who are, again,
46:16 going through further uncertainty.
46:19 The wellbeing economy secretary had met with
46:21 and written to the company in recent months
46:23 to encourage it to fully engage with Scottish Enterprise
46:27 so that every available option to save the business
46:30 could be explored.
46:31 I know the business has had a longstanding presence
46:33 in the community, of course, as an important local employer.
46:36 And we will certainly do everything we can
46:38 in our power to protect jobs
46:40 and the manufacturing footprint in Dundee.
46:43 Scottish Enterprise is engaging directly with the liquidator
46:46 to better understand the situation
46:48 given last night's announcement.
46:50 And we, of course, as a government,
46:52 stand ready to provide support to any employees
46:55 who are potentially facing redundancy
46:56 through, of course, our partnership action
46:59 for continuing employment pace.
47:00 And I'll keep the member updated
47:02 on how those conversations are going.
47:04 - Maggie Chapman.
47:05 - Apologies, Presiding Officer.
47:09 Thank you.
47:10 This week, the FBU Scotland launched their firestorm report.
47:16 In the last seven days,
47:17 we've seen them tackle floods and flames.
47:21 Our fireys are gathered outside right now,
47:24 and they are clear they cannot continue
47:27 in their current roles,
47:28 never mind adapt to the future kinds of roles
47:31 they are expected to do
47:33 with the current levels of investment.
47:36 Can I ask the First Minister
47:37 what his response to their firestorm report is?
47:40 And will he agree to meet with firefighters themselves,
47:44 not their managers, frontline firefighters,
47:47 to hear directly their concerns?
47:50 First Minister.
47:51 - First and foremost, I go back to the response to Anas Sarwar.
47:54 We will continue to ensure that we invest in our fire service
47:58 because they do an incredible job.
47:59 And of course, in our firefighters,
48:00 who we have a regular dialogue with the FBU.
48:04 In fact, I think the cabinet secretary
48:06 has committed just this morning
48:07 to meet with the Fire Brigades Union
48:09 to meet directly with those on the front line.
48:12 We did, of course, this financial year,
48:14 increase SFRS's budget by 14.4 million.
48:19 That's despite the current financial pressure
48:22 that we are under.
48:23 On top of that, of course,
48:25 we continue to make investments
48:27 in the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service
48:28 that has seen them, through their incredible hard work,
48:31 reduce the number of fires that have taken place
48:35 over the course of the last year.
48:37 So I do have the firestorm report.
48:38 I have read through the report.
48:40 And of course, the cabinet secretary will meet with the FBU
48:42 as she committed to this morning.
48:44 - Christine Grahame.
48:46 - Thank you, Presiding Officer.
48:48 First Minister, under the Scottish Government's
48:49 vaccination programme,
48:51 I recently had both the Covid and the flu vaccines
48:54 at a very busy, efficient,
48:55 and indeed friendly vaccine centre.
48:57 But that's anecdotal.
48:59 So can I ask for an update
49:01 on the take-up of the vaccine, please?
49:03 - First Minister.
49:04 - Christine Grahame makes an incredibly important point.
49:06 Of course, we know that the vaccine and vaccines,
49:08 both for Covid and flu,
49:10 are incredibly effective and important.
49:13 I would encourage anybody who's eligible
49:15 to come forward for those vaccines.
49:17 The programme is progressing very well
49:19 with over 1.7 million vaccines administered so far.
49:23 That's over 1 million flu vaccines
49:25 and almost 700,000 Covid vaccines.
49:29 For those at our highest risk,
49:30 our re-phasing of the programme has resulted
49:33 in 73% of care home residents already vaccinated,
49:36 with the remainder due for completion
49:38 by the end of this month.
49:41 A large number of people have appointments
49:42 throughout the rest of October and November
49:44 with vaccines due to be delivered by early December.
49:48 I would say to everybody,
49:50 I would reiterate to all of those who are eligible,
49:53 that getting the flu vaccine,
49:55 getting the Covid vaccine,
49:57 could save your life.
49:58 It is the safest and most effective way
50:00 to protect yourself and the NHS this winter.
50:03 So if you are eligible, please do.
50:06 But if you're yet to book an appointment,
50:07 please do so.
50:08 I would encourage everybody who's eligible
50:09 to get those vaccines.
50:10 - Miles Briggs.
50:11 - Thank you, President.
50:12 So this week, I met with campaigners
50:14 to discuss the impact of lockdowns on families
50:16 of those living in care homes.
50:18 After a long campaign,
50:19 it was welcome that the Scottish Government
50:21 announced that they would implement Anne's Law.
50:24 However, there are concerns
50:25 that that still hasn't taken place
50:27 and it's currently sitting
50:28 within the National Care Service bill.
50:30 Campaigners want to see it decoupled.
50:32 So can I ask the First Minister
50:33 if he will agree to meet with the campaigners
50:36 and if ministers will look urgently
50:37 at decoupling Anne's Law and delivering it now?
50:41 - First Minister.
50:42 Of course, through changes that were made
50:45 by the previous Minister for Social Care,
50:47 Kevin Stewart, of course,
50:49 you gave practical effect through regulation
50:52 to Anne's Law.
50:53 That notwithstanding, of course,
50:55 if there's something else we can do,
50:57 the suggestion being made by Miles Briggs
50:59 in relation to decoupling,
51:00 I will consider.
51:01 But of course, we do have
51:02 the National Care Service bill progressing.
51:05 Of course, we took time to pause that
51:07 due to concerns that were being raised
51:08 by local authorities and by trade unions.
51:11 And of course, I will ask the Cabinet Secretary
51:12 to meet with Miles Briggs
51:13 and indeed with the families
51:15 who are represented by those who are in care homes
51:18 to see if there's anything further we can do.
51:20 - Bill Kidd.
51:21 - Thank you, Presiding Officer.
51:24 As we mark Care Experience Week,
51:26 can the First Minister provide an update
51:28 on the steps the Scottish Government is taking
51:30 to improve the experiences and outcomes
51:33 for looked-after children
51:35 as they transition to adulthood?
51:37 - First Minister.
51:39 I do think every single member of the Scottish Parliament
51:41 who has met with care-experienced people,
51:44 particularly care-experienced young people,
51:46 will have been moved by their plight,
51:49 by their strength, by their advocacy.
51:51 And I had the great privilege
51:53 to meet with a group of care-experienced young people
51:55 in Glasgow yesterday.
51:57 And I heard about some of the challenges
51:59 that care-experienced people face
52:01 during that transition into adulthood.
52:04 And for anyone, moving away from home
52:06 can be a challenging time
52:08 when we rely heavily on our family support networks.
52:11 But not everybody has that family support network.
52:13 Not everybody has the luxury
52:14 of their mother and their father,
52:17 or indeed, wider family to be able to rely on.
52:20 And that's why I was pleased to set out
52:22 the Government's proposal
52:23 for a £2,000 care leaver payment
52:25 to provide financial support
52:27 at such a pivotal moment in young people's lives
52:29 as part of a broader package of support.
52:32 This is a key step in keeping the promise.
52:34 And let me reiterate to the Chamber today
52:36 that I, as First Minister, and this Government
52:39 fully intend not just on keeping the promise,
52:40 but making sure it's delivered.
52:43 - Thank you.
52:44 That concludes First Minister's questions.
52:46 (upbeat music)
52:49 (upbeat music)
52:51 [Music]