FMQs Roundup - The Scotsman politics team at the Scottish Parliament
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00:00 (upbeat music)
00:02 - Hello and welcome to the Scotsman's Politics Show.
00:10 We are wrapping up First Minister's Questions.
00:13 I'm joined by our political correspondent, Alistair Grant.
00:17 Alistair, WhatsApps were back on the menu.
00:20 We heard last night effectively the timeline
00:24 set out by the Scottish government on this
00:26 and it left some questions to answer
00:29 which were put to answer to that.
00:31 - Yeah, so this was brought up
00:33 by the Scottish Conservative leader, Douglas Ross.
00:35 You're quite right, just to give a little bit
00:37 of background on it, just in case people have forgotten.
00:40 This has been a kind of long running row.
00:41 I think this is week three of this WhatsApps row.
00:44 Initially it sparked because the Scottish government
00:47 was criticised during a hearing of the UK COVID inquiry
00:50 for not handing over WhatsApp messages
00:53 sent during the pandemic.
00:56 The Scottish government then requested
00:58 a kind of legal order that would allow them to do that
01:02 without getting kind of bogged down
01:03 in data protection issues.
01:05 So they've now handed over 14,
01:06 I think it's just more than 14,000 WhatsApp messages
01:10 to the UK COVID inquiry.
01:12 But essentially this has become a row again
01:14 because at First Minister's Questions last week,
01:18 Humza Yousaf had said that the inquiry
01:20 hadn't actually asked for the contents of those messages
01:22 until September of this year.
01:25 So he said they'd asked for details about WhatsApp groups,
01:29 who was in them back in June,
01:30 but they hadn't asked for the content until September.
01:33 And so there wasn't any kind of delay
01:35 in the Scottish government handing them over.
01:37 But it certainly sounds like the COVID inquiry queried this
01:41 because last night in the Scottish parliament on Wednesday,
01:45 about just after 5 p.m.,
01:47 we had a point of order getting raised by Shona Robison,
01:50 the deputy first minister,
01:51 saying that the Scottish government had now,
01:53 at the request of the UK COVID inquiry,
01:55 published a timeline of its interactions with the inquiry
01:59 and when information was requested.
02:02 And that timeline certainly appears to show
02:04 that the inquiry had asked for WhatsApp messages
02:07 back in February, which is obviously months before
02:09 we were led to believe the Scottish government
02:12 had been asked for them.
02:14 So Douglas Ross in First Minister's Questions today,
02:18 very much asking Humza Yousaf
02:21 to account for that discrepancy.
02:22 And Douglas Ross was saying that Humza Yousaf
02:25 and Shona Robison had been caught red-handed in a coverup.
02:29 And essentially he was accusing them
02:30 of misleading parliament.
02:32 Humza Yousaf very much denying that
02:34 and saying that Shona Robison,
02:35 in a previous statement in Holyrood,
02:37 had said that there'd been initial requests
02:39 from the inquiry.
02:40 And it seems to be kind of bogged down in details
02:42 about whether or not requests were relating
02:44 to key decisions during the inquiry
02:47 or whether they were just relating
02:48 to kind of day-to-day operations of the government
02:50 during the pandemic.
02:52 So there's certainly a lot of questions
02:53 for Humza Yousaf still to answer.
02:56 He's very much saying that Scottish government
02:58 has been open with inquiry,
03:00 that it's cooperated with inquiry.
03:02 And he was extremely keen today as well
03:04 to keep drawing comparisons with the UK government
03:06 and with former Prime Minister Boris Johnson
03:09 and how they've dealt with the inquiry.
03:11 And obviously we had Boris Johnson's initial problems
03:15 handing over his own WhatsApps.
03:16 We've had the extraordinary evidence
03:18 that's been coming out in relation to some of the things
03:20 officials in the UK government were saying
03:22 about ministers and others behind the scenes.
03:24 But obviously the opposition in Holyrood
03:28 would just view that as a way for Humza Yousaf
03:30 to try and distract from the central issue,
03:32 which is the Scottish government's approach to this.
03:35 - And Alistair, Humza Yousaf wasn't the only minister
03:41 or senior person within the Scottish government
03:43 under pressure.
03:44 The story emerging initially last night
03:47 that Michael Matheson, the current health secretary,
03:50 had racked up a 11,000 pound bill
03:55 while using an iPad on holiday in Morocco.
03:58 Just talk us through a bit more of the background
04:00 around this story,
04:01 and I believe we managed to track him down
04:03 at Holyrood today.
04:05 - Yeah, so it's actually,
04:06 it's quite an extraordinary story, really.
04:08 Michael Matheson, a senior SNP minister, health secretary,
04:11 who managed to rack up nearly 11,000 pounds
04:14 in roaming costs on his parliament iPad
04:17 while he was on holiday in Morocco.
04:19 - Michael Matheson.
04:20 - Michael Matheson.
04:21 - Are you embarrassed by the level of this phone bill
04:24 that the parliament's being charged?
04:26 - Well, look, it's been explained that it's been caused
04:28 by an outdated SIM card, as in an iPad,
04:31 that I had for constituency purposes,
04:34 which was a parliamentary iPad,
04:36 and it hadn't been replaced.
04:37 I wasn't aware that it had to be replaced,
04:39 and the cost built up as a result of that.
04:41 And as the parliament also stated very clearly,
04:44 is that the network provider didn't provide information
04:46 around the cost that were being incurred as well.
04:48 So it was something that was unknown to me as well,
04:52 and as the parliament have also confirmed
04:54 that the parliamentary equipment was used
04:57 for constituency and parliamentary purposes.
04:59 - How did the bill get to living grand?
05:02 - So Michael Matheson is saying that he was using the device
05:04 for parliamentary work, for constituency work,
05:07 and hadn't switched over
05:09 to the Scottish parliament's current mobile contract.
05:12 And that's why these roaming costs were so,
05:14 you know, absolutely massive.
05:16 You know, 11,000 pounds, obviously a lot of money.
05:18 There's no questions about whether he will pay back
05:20 all that money.
05:21 This is taxpayers that are fitting the bill.
05:24 - And I saw Craig Hoy,
05:26 the Scottish conservative chairman at the end of proceedings.
05:29 He almost tried to put Alison Johnstone on the spot,
05:32 seemingly, and ask her whether the Scottish parliament
05:36 needed to assess whether they should be paying
05:38 for this announcement.
05:40 Maybe the issue isn't done and dusted yet.
05:42 - Yeah, I imagine it will run a bit more,
05:46 to be honest.
05:47 I missed that point of order because I was trying to
05:49 be part of the kind of group of journalists
05:51 doorstepping Hums Abusive about the WhatsApps.
05:53 And so we've had kind of two different doorsteps
05:55 going on at the same time in Holyrood today.
05:57 But yeah, I mean, this is something that
05:59 the opposition will be keen to highlight.
06:01 Just for the, it kind of looks like a bungle
06:04 that has ended up costing taxpayers
06:06 quite a large amount of money.
06:08 - You'll be able to read all the latest
06:11 about what came out of those doorsteps
06:13 and the defence and justifications,
06:15 both from Hums Abusive and Michael Matheson
06:18 at scotsman.com.
06:20 Please check out the site across the afternoon
06:22 for more information.
06:24 You can follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter,
06:27 and go out and buy a copy of the Scotsman in print tomorrow
06:31 for all the very latest from First Minister's
06:33 questions today.
06:34 Thanks Alistair, and thanks everyone for joining us.
06:38 - The next item of business is First Minister's questions.
06:41 And at question number one, I call Douglas Ross.
06:43 - Thank you, Presiding Officer.
06:45 Last night, the Deputy First Minister
06:47 was forced to admit to this Parliament
06:50 that the UK COVID inquiry sent a request
06:52 to the Scottish Government for messages
06:54 related to the pandemic in February of this year.
06:58 But last week, the Deputy First Minister
07:01 claimed the request was made just over a month ago.
07:05 First Minister, those two statements
07:07 are clearly contradictory.
07:09 So how can they both be true?
07:11 - First Minister.
07:14 Presiding Officer, the Deputy First Minister
07:16 was clear in her statement,
07:17 and you can check the official record for this, of course,
07:20 when she made her statement last week.
07:22 She did mention that there was initial requests
07:25 from the inquiry.
07:27 In terms of my own response to Anas Sarwar,
07:29 I of course was talking about a very particular issue
07:32 around specific WhatsApp groups.
07:34 But let me be clear.
07:36 Let me be absolutely clear.
07:39 - Let's hear the First Minister, members.
07:41 - I accept, I fully accept that the Scottish Government
07:46 clearly interpreted the requests from the inquiry
07:50 in a way that was too narrow.
07:53 And for any shortcomings on our behalf,
07:57 that have caused any distress.
07:58 - Let's hear the First Minister, please.
08:01 - For any shortcomings on our behalf
08:03 that has caused any distress to the families
08:06 of those who have been bereaved by COVID,
08:09 then I apologise unreservedly, as I did last week.
08:12 And I reiterate and re-emphasise that apology this week.
08:17 What we have done on the back, of course,
08:19 of the requests from the inquiry,
08:21 have ensured that the Government has released
08:23 14,000 messages to the inquiry.
08:27 And when it comes to my own witness statement,
08:29 that includes reams of WhatsApp messages unredacted.
08:33 That is, of course, Presiding Officer,
08:34 in very stark contrast to a Prime Minister
08:38 who not only dragged the inquiry through courts,
08:41 but has refused to hand over his own WhatsApp messages.
08:44 (audience applauding)
08:46 - Douglas Ross.
08:46 - This is the third week I've raised this
08:52 at First Minister's Questions.
08:53 And it's, well, if the SNP don't like it,
08:57 I don't think they would have liked
08:58 the First Minister's attempt at an excuse there.
09:01 Because the First Minister peddled the same false claims
09:05 as the Deputy First Minister.
09:06 Let's be very clear what he said to this chamber last week.
09:11 Humza Yousaf said, and I quote,
09:13 "The messages were asked for in September,
09:16 "just a matter of weeks ago."
09:18 That's what he said, black and white in the official record.
09:22 But back in February, the UK Covid inquiry asked for,
09:26 and I quote, "internal and external emails,
09:30 "text messages or WhatsApp messages
09:32 "held by the Scottish Government.
09:35 "The evidence is clear."
09:37 Will he admit that in last week's session,
09:40 he didn't tell the truth?
09:41 - Yeah.
09:42 (audience applauding)
09:43 - First Minister.
09:44 - Presiding Officer, I absolutely refute that.
09:47 I told, and I've told the chamber,
09:49 that of course they can check the official record.
09:51 Clearly, I was talking about specific WhatsApp groups.
09:54 What I do accept fully from the inquiry
09:57 is that we have interpreted their requests too narrowly.
10:01 And subsequently, having done so,
10:05 - Let us hear the First Minister.
10:06 - We have then supplied 14,000 messages to the inquiry.
10:11 In my witness statement, I have of course handed over
10:15 the WhatsApp messages that I have,
10:17 unredacted to the inquiry.
10:20 In very stark contrast to UK government
10:23 that took the inquiry to court,
10:25 lost that court battle,
10:27 and the Prime Minister refuses to hand over
10:30 his WhatsApp messages.
10:32 So, once again, I say to Douglas Ross,
10:34 we don't fear scrutiny.
10:35 I suspect his party absolutely does.
10:38 (audience applauding)
10:39 - Douglas Ross.
10:40 - That's a very brave answer from the First Minister,
10:46 when his predecessor and others in government
10:48 have been deleting messages, running away from scrutiny.
10:52 But let's look very carefully,
10:55 'cause the First Minister seems to be struggling with this,
10:57 as to what was said last week.
10:59 The Deputy First Minister told Parliament
11:02 it has been just over a month since messages were requested.
11:06 The First Minister claimed in this chamber
11:08 the messages were asked for in September,
11:11 just a matter of weeks ago.
11:13 That is what was said.
11:14 That is in the official record of this Parliament.
11:17 The two most senior people in the Scottish government
11:20 stated that the UK COVID inquiry
11:23 only requested the messages in September.
11:27 It wasn't a slip of the tongue.
11:28 It wasn't an honest mistake.
11:31 It was deliberate.
11:33 Now the UK COVID inquiry,
11:35 tasked with getting answers for grieving families,
11:39 has had to demand the SNP comes to this Parliament
11:42 to tell the truth about the timeline
11:45 of when the requests were made.
11:47 So why did Humza Yousaf and the SNP make these false claims?
11:51 (audience applauding)
11:54 - I would urge Douglas Ross to once again read
11:57 the statement from the Deputy First Minister,
11:59 which of course says in black and white,
12:01 well, if you have, if Douglas Ross has,
12:04 he will see in black and white
12:05 that the Deputy First Minister references initial requests.
12:09 It was entirely understandable
12:11 and of course appropriate for the inquiry
12:13 to ask us to then provide the absolute full context
12:16 of requests, which we did without any hesitation,
12:18 without arguing back with the inquiry
12:20 to ensure that we were transparent and accountable.
12:23 Now I understand why Douglas Ross wants to obsess
12:27 about process.
12:28 We've of course handed over the 14,000 messages.
12:31 - Members, let's hear the First Minister.
12:32 - I've handed over reams of WhatsApp messages from myself.
12:36 And I absolutely acknowledge the distress
12:39 that has been caused to families
12:40 that have been bereaved by COVID
12:42 and I apologise unreservedly to them.
12:45 While the process is important,
12:47 the substance of those messages are important too.
12:50 And what I can say, I can say with total confidence,
12:52 even though I have not seen some of the messages,
12:55 of course, from individual witnesses,
12:57 what I can say, what I can say with total confidence
13:01 is there was not a single Scottish Government minister
13:04 that said, "Let the bodies pile up high."
13:08 (audience laughing)
13:09 That of course, that of course, Presiding Officer.
13:12 - Thank you.
13:13 - That of course, Presiding Officer,
13:17 was none other than Boris Johnson,
13:20 a man that Douglas Ross served under in government,
13:23 a man that Boris Johnson, a man that Douglas Ross,
13:26 of course, defended to the hilt.
13:28 - Briefly, First Minister. - A man that Douglas Ross
13:30 claimed was honest.
13:32 Douglas Ross should be ashamed of himself
13:34 for his defence of Boris Johnson.
13:36 (audience applauding)
13:38 - Douglas Ross.
13:39 - Hamza Yousaf should not just be ashamed of himself
13:46 for that answer, but the way he is treating
13:48 this Parliament with contempt
13:50 and the families of grieving victims.
13:53 Let us be very clear.
13:56 The UK COVID inquiry repeatedly asked the SNP Government
14:00 for WhatsApp messages.
14:02 They asked if the messages existed last year.
14:05 They asked for the messages themselves
14:08 in February of this year,
14:10 and again in March, and in July, and in August,
14:15 but the First Minister and Deputy First Minister
14:19 claim none of this ever happened.
14:21 They have been caught red-handed in a cover-up.
14:25 They knowingly told this chamber statements that were false.
14:29 Isn't it beyond doubt that Hamza Yousaf
14:32 and Shona Robison misled this Parliament?
14:34 - First Minister.
14:37 - Not the case, Presiding Officer,
14:39 and I would refer Douglas Ross once again
14:42 to the official record where the Deputy First Minister
14:44 in black and white talks about initial requests.
14:48 What I absolutely fully accept is that as a Government,
14:52 we interpreted those requests too narrowly.
14:55 What we have done to take corrective action
14:58 is to make sure we submitted 14,000 messages.
15:02 What I have done, of course,
15:03 is made sure that I have handed over the messages
15:06 that I have in unredacted form,
15:09 but let's not take away from the substance
15:12 instead of the process issues
15:13 that Douglas Ross, of course, is so obsessed with.
15:17 We had this week Simon Case describing
15:20 working in Boris Johnson's Government
15:23 as taming wild animals.
15:26 That, of course, was a Government
15:28 that Douglas Ross was a member of.
15:30 I can't even read out the messages
15:33 that Dominic Cumming handed to the inquiry.
15:37 However, we heard from that inquiry.
15:39 We heard, Douglas Ross won't want to hear this.
15:42 I can understand why he's trying to shout it down.
15:44 But, Presiding Officer, this is an exceptionally important point.
15:48 In the inquiry in the last couple of weeks,
15:50 we have heard there was a deliberate attempt
15:53 by the UK Government to exclude
15:55 devolved Governments from decision-making.
15:57 And, of course, during the early days of the pandemic,
16:00 Douglas Ross was a Minister within the Scotland Office.
16:04 Did he purposely try to exclude devolved Administrations
16:08 and, indeed, this Government from decision-making?
16:12 So, at a time when people needed, right across the UK,
16:16 serious leadership during a serious time,
16:19 they had wild animals, according to Simon Case,
16:21 running the UK Government.
16:23 [Applause]
16:24 Question number two, Anna Sarwar.
16:27 [Applause]
16:29 Presiding Officer, bereaved families and their lawyers
16:32 are watching these exchanges.
16:33 And I don't think we should use Boris Johnson
16:36 as our measure of success in Scotland.
16:38 [Laughter]
16:40 Presiding Officer, it couldn't be clearer.
16:42 The First Minister has lost control of his Government
16:45 and he appears to have misled Parliament
16:46 on more than one occasion.
16:48 So, let's focus on the substance, because this matters.
16:51 The Covid pandemic was our country's most difficult period
16:54 in living memory.
16:55 That's why learning the lessons
16:57 and getting the answers are so important.
16:59 We were promised full transparency and co-operation
17:02 by this Government, but they have failed.
17:05 Because WhatsApp messages are not the only evidence
17:09 that the Government is withholding from the inquiry.
17:11 The legal advice that the Government has provided
17:14 has not been complete and, in some cases,
17:17 almost entirely redacted.
17:19 The inquiry's lawyer has said
17:21 that this means the inquiry is constrained
17:24 from fully carrying out its function.
17:26 First Minister, why is your Government
17:28 hiding the legal advice
17:31 and not co-operating with the inquiry?
17:33 First Minister.
17:34 Whatever information we can provide,
17:36 and when it comes to legal advice,
17:37 obviously Anas Sarwar knows that I can't
17:40 comment on legal advice.
17:42 Where there is, of course, the ability
17:45 to hand over legal advice unredacted,
17:47 then I would expect the Scottish Government to do so.
17:50 And of course, I'm more than happy,
17:52 after this exchange of First Minister's questions,
17:54 to have the appropriate conversations
17:56 with the law officers.
17:57 But of course, we have to ensure
17:59 that legal privilege is, of course, maintained
18:03 where that is our legal responsibility to do so.
18:06 Anas Sarwar says that we are not complying.
18:08 I disagree with that wholeheartedly.
18:10 We have handed over 14,000 WhatsApp messages.
18:14 I have handed over the WhatsApp messages.
18:16 I have, in unredacted form.
18:18 I haven't decided what's relevant.
18:20 I've handed all of my messages over to the inquiry
18:23 for the inquiry to decide what is relevant.
18:25 Anas Sarwar is absolutely right.
18:28 Those families who have been bereaved by Covid
18:31 absolutely want answers.
18:33 And what I can say, with the 19,000 documents
18:35 we've handed over, with the 14,000 WhatsApp messages
18:38 we've handed over, with the WhatsApp messages
18:40 I have handed over, we are a government
18:42 that intends absolutely and unequivocally
18:44 to fully co-operate with both the Scottish
18:46 and the UK public inquiries.
18:47 Anas Sarwar.
18:49 The First Minister says he's co-operating,
18:50 but I'm not sure if he doesn't understand
18:52 or he doesn't know in terms of the question I asked him.
18:55 Because he clearly hasn't still read the transcript
18:58 from the Covid inquiry.
19:00 Council—got it there? Well, read it!
19:02 First Minister, read it!
19:03 Because the council to the inquiry has made it clear
19:05 that they have asked twice, on the 3rd of August
19:08 and the 14th of August, for unredacted legal advice
19:11 and they have not received it.
19:14 And this does not seem to be a fight
19:16 that the Covid inquiry is having with the UK Tory government.
19:19 Because there were major decisions during the pandemic
19:21 which presumably had legal advice,
19:23 such as lockdowns, discharge to care homes
19:26 and do not resuscitate notices.
19:28 That's why this is so important.
19:29 And hiding this crucial evidence is an affront
19:32 to every victim of Covid, their families
19:35 and everyone who lived under lockdowns and closures.
19:38 So, in reference to the First Minister's first answer,
19:41 the government has handed over legal advice
19:43 in full to judicial inquiries before.
19:46 The trams inquiry, the infected blood inquiry
19:49 and the Scottish child abuse inquiry.
19:52 So, the secrecy and evasion must stop.
19:55 Will he hand over the legal advice in full to the Covid inquiry?
19:59 [Applause]
20:00 First Minister.
20:02 You see, in Anas Sarwar's question,
20:05 he does get to the nub of the issue.
20:08 Which is, of course, this government has co-operated
20:10 with inquiries fully in the past,
20:13 where we are able to release legal advice,
20:17 we will absolutely do that.
20:18 But Anas Sarwar has to accept that there is,
20:20 first of all, a process that has to be gone through.
20:23 And secondly, each bit of legal advice
20:25 has to be looked at on a case-by-case basis.
20:28 That's why he is absolutely right.
20:30 We have provided legal advice in previous inquiries.
20:33 Where we can do so in this inquiry,
20:35 I absolutely expect every single document,
20:39 including legal advice, to be handed over
20:42 to the UK Covid inquiry,
20:43 to the Scottish Covid inquiry as well.
20:46 And I go back to the central point,
20:48 quite rightly, for those families who've been bereaved by Covid,
20:52 want to know, will we co-operate?
20:53 19,000 documents have been handed over.
20:56 14,000 WhatsApp messages,
20:58 mainly WhatsApp messages, have been handed over.
21:01 My WhatsApp messages, as well as messages I know
21:04 of other ministers who've been public
21:06 about the messages they have handed over,
21:08 have been submitted to this inquiry.
21:10 We take absolutely seriously our responsibility,
21:15 not just to provide documents,
21:17 but, where possible, the legal advice.
21:19 But, of course, there are legal issues around legal privilege
21:22 which have to be considered, Presiding Officer.
21:24 - Anas Sarwar.
21:25 - Presiding Officer, it's clear from that answer again
21:27 that the First Minister is sinking, not swimming,
21:29 and is completely and utterly out of his depth.
21:33 He has...
21:33 [audience laughing]
21:36 It's not me saying that the legal advice
21:39 has been redacted and not handed over.
21:41 It's the Covid inquiry on the 3rd and the 14th of August,
21:45 asking for the information
21:46 and still not provided by this Government.
21:49 That's WhatsApp messages deleted,
21:51 legal advice redacted,
21:53 and a different story every day.
21:55 And even now, questions remain
21:57 that the First Minister refuses to answer.
22:00 He won't tell us how many people have failed to comply
22:03 with the do not destroy notices,
22:05 even though the inquiry say
22:06 there is no confidentiality issue.
22:08 But, Presiding Officer, there's more.
22:11 It's been reported that SNP ministers and special advisers
22:15 use SNP and private email accounts to communicate.
22:18 What is not clear is if these emails have been handed
22:22 in full to the Covid inquiry.
22:24 So can the First Minister tell us,
22:26 in the spirit of full transparency,
22:28 have any emails from SNP accounts
22:32 been handed to the Covid inquiry?
22:34 If so, how many?
22:37 And if not, why not?
22:40 Presiding Officer, can I remind the First Minister again,
22:42 this is about families
22:44 and about those who have lost loved ones during Covid.
22:47 So before he answers,
22:48 can I just remind him
22:50 that we need accurate answers the first time.
22:53 First Minister.
22:53 Can I say to Anas Sarwar
22:56 that I'm not arguing with him
22:57 about the point that the information has been redacted.
23:00 I'm saying to him, the reason why it has been redacted
23:02 is because of issues I can confirm
23:05 around legal privilege.
23:07 And therefore, of course,
23:08 a discussion would have to take place
23:10 with our law officers
23:11 in relation to what can be unredacted.
23:13 Where we can absolutely send information unredacted
23:16 is my full expectation
23:18 as the individual who leads the government
23:20 that that information is provided in full
23:22 in unredacted form.
23:23 And to give him an example of that,
23:24 the way that I am leading by example,
23:26 is the WhatsApp messages I've handed over
23:28 have been handed over unredacted.
23:31 The information that has been provided
23:34 has been provided by me in unredacted form.
23:38 As for any other form of communication
23:41 in any other email address
23:43 or informal or formal communication,
23:45 it's fully my expectation
23:47 that that is handed over.
23:49 Now, of course, I do not have sight
23:52 of individual ministers' or witnesses' statements.
23:55 From a corporate position, of course,
23:57 I can confirm that any relevant information we hold
24:00 will be handed over.
24:02 And let me say once again
24:04 that for the families of those
24:05 who have been bereaved by Covid,
24:07 this government will fully comply
24:09 with both the UK inquiry
24:10 and with the Scottish Public Inquiry.
24:13 Question number three, Gillian Mackay.
24:15 To ask the First Minister
24:16 how the Scottish Government is supporting renters
24:19 who are struggling with the cost of living.
24:21 First Minister.
24:21 I am, of course, acutely aware
24:23 of the pressure facing renters.
24:25 I'm pleased that this Parliament voted to extend
24:27 the Cost of Living Act for a final six months to March,
24:31 which continues to provide protection
24:33 and reassurance to renters
24:35 by capping private sector rents.
24:37 That's alongside our agreement
24:39 with social landlords
24:40 to keep rent increases this year
24:42 well below inflation.
24:44 Scotland is leading the way
24:45 in support for tenants.
24:46 This year, we are making
24:48 £83.7 million available
24:50 to local authorities
24:51 to spend on discretionary housing payments
24:54 more per person than any other UK nation.
24:57 And that's why I repeat my call
24:58 to the UK Government
24:59 to scrap its ongoing freeze
25:01 on local housing allowance rates,
25:02 which hits hardest on tenants
25:04 on the lowest incomes.
25:06 Julie Mackay.
25:07 I thank the First Minister for that answer.
25:09 And like him, I strongly support
25:10 our emergency legislation
25:12 to cap rents and reduce evictions,
25:14 led by Patrick Harvie last year.
25:17 And I welcome last week's
25:18 Court of Session decision
25:19 to reject a challenge to that legislation,
25:21 saying that the challenge fell far short
25:24 of what is required in order
25:25 to demonstrate that the Act
25:26 disproportionately interferes
25:28 with the property rights of landlords.
25:31 With that court decision in mind,
25:32 does the First Minister agree with me
25:33 that it is time for landlord bodies
25:35 to accept the overwhelming need for action
25:38 to control high rents
25:39 and to improve tenants' rights,
25:41 and so work constructively
25:43 with this Government on the Housing Bill
25:45 when it's introduced this parliamentary year?
25:47 First Minister.
25:48 I do, and I welcome
25:49 the court's decision last week.
25:51 I want to work constructively
25:53 with all stakeholders
25:54 to deliver a system of rent control
25:56 that works for Scotland.
25:58 I'm pleased that a number of landlord
26:00 representatives' bodies
26:01 are working with us through
26:02 the private rented sector stakeholder group
26:05 and a range of organisations
26:06 representing the views of tenants,
26:08 investors and developers are represented.
26:11 I'm keen this approach continues
26:13 as we move towards the introduction
26:15 of the bill.
26:16 The Deputy First Minister,
26:17 myself, Mairi McAllan,
26:19 had a good session
26:21 with our investor panel last week.
26:23 It was made very clear from that investor panel
26:25 that those who want to invest
26:27 in property and affordable housing
26:29 will do so in places
26:30 that have rent controls.
26:31 We've seen that in Europe.
26:34 We're keen to engage with everybody
26:36 on this issue.
26:37 There's no other Government in the UK
26:39 that is as ambitious as this Government
26:42 with our emergency legislation.
26:44 That was on top of our legislation
26:46 to end no-fault evictions in 2016,
26:48 a move that the UK Government
26:50 is now considering.
26:52 For clarity, can I check
26:54 if Ms Adamson's supplementary
26:55 was on this question?
26:57 Thank you.
26:58 We'll move on to question number four.
26:59 I call Colette Stevenson.
27:01 Thank you, Presiding Officer.
27:03 To ask the First Minister
27:04 what the Scottish Government
27:05 is doing to alleviate poverty
27:07 in Scotland in light of reports
27:09 that the UK is in violation
27:11 of international law
27:13 in relation to poverty levels.
27:15 First Minister.
27:17 The Scottish Government is allocating
27:18 almost £3 billion
27:19 to support policies
27:21 which tackle poverty and protect people
27:23 as far as possible
27:24 during the ongoing cost
27:25 of living crisis this year.
27:27 This includes delivering,
27:28 of course, a game-changing
27:29 Scottish child payment,
27:31 tripling our fuel and security fund
27:32 to £30 million.
27:34 While Westminster Governments
27:35 sign up to prolonged austerity,
27:37 this Government will continue
27:38 to use every single lever available
27:41 to lift people out of poverty.
27:43 We know the devastating impact
27:46 UK Government measures are having,
27:47 driving more people into poverty.
27:49 That's why it's frankly no surprise
27:52 to hear the UN special rapporteur
27:54 on poverty state
27:55 the UK Government is in violation
27:57 of international law
27:59 over poverty levels.
27:59 That is, however, shocking.
28:01 And we agree with the UN
28:03 that universal credit
28:05 is grossly insufficient.
28:07 That's why we continue to call
28:08 on the UK Government
28:10 to introduce an essentials guarantee
28:12 ensuring social security
28:13 adequately covers the cost
28:15 of vital essentials.
28:16 Collette Stevenson.
28:19 Yesterday, the Trussell Trust
28:20 released astonishing figures
28:22 showing that 1.5 million
28:25 emergency food parcels
28:26 were distributed across the UK
28:28 between April and September.
28:31 The most parcels that the network
28:33 has ever provided
28:34 over the summer months.
28:36 A 16 per cent increase, UK-wide,
28:40 but mitigated to 9 per cent in Scotland.
28:43 This is further evidence
28:45 of the utter misery caused by
28:47 what the UN special rapporteur
28:49 on extreme poverty called
28:51 the Tories' "grossly insufficient
28:55 welfare system".
28:56 Does the First Minister agree
28:57 with me that the UK Government
28:59 must introduce a universal credit
29:02 essentials guarantee immediately
29:04 and that the only way
29:05 to protect people in Scotland
29:08 from Westminster's cruel policies
29:10 is for this Parliament
29:11 to have the full powers
29:12 of an independent country?
29:15 First Minister.
29:17 Collette Stevenson there
29:21 articulating, speaking powerfully
29:23 about some of the evidence
29:23 from the Trussell Trust
29:24 and all we get is groans and moans
29:26 from the Conservative benches
29:28 when the Trussell Trust is mentioned
29:29 or poverty is mentioned.
29:31 That tells its own story,
29:32 does it not, Presiding Officer?
29:35 I agree with Collette Stevenson
29:37 that the UK Government must urgently
29:38 fix the fundamental flaws
29:40 with universal credit
29:42 that are driving destitution
29:43 and of course driving up
29:45 food bank use.
29:46 The Trussell Trust report
29:48 is astonishing, as Collette Stevenson says.
29:51 It makes clear that the UK Government's
29:53 social security system
29:54 is one of the driving factors
29:57 pushing people towards hunger.
29:59 That's why I do support
30:01 that the Government supports
30:02 the calls for an essentials guarantee
30:04 to be applied to universal credit
30:06 and other reserved benefits,
30:08 ensuring that social security benefits
30:10 adequately cover the cost
30:11 of vital essentials.
30:13 But wouldn't it be better,
30:14 far better,
30:15 if we were able to extricate ourselves
30:17 from a Westminster system
30:18 that is causing such immense harm
30:20 to our people?
30:21 Far better if we stopped having to take money
30:23 from health, education and transport
30:25 to mitigate Westminster harm
30:27 and instead had the full powers
30:29 of an independent country
30:30 not just to reduce poverty
30:32 but to eradicate it.
30:33 I'm sorry to interrupt.
30:34 Question number five, Miles Briggs.
30:37 Thank you, Presiding Officer.
30:38 To ask the First Minister
30:39 what support the Scottish Government
30:41 is offering to NHS Lothian
30:43 to contact the parents and guardians
30:44 of over 23,000 children
30:46 who reportedly may have received
30:48 substandard testing to identify deafness,
30:51 including support to identify
30:53 other young children
30:54 who have not received the required standard
30:56 of auditory brainstem response testing.
30:58 First Minister.
30:59 Well, firstly, I want to say that
31:01 I recognise the anxiety
31:03 and the anger
31:04 that children and families
31:05 affected by this situation
31:06 will quite reasonably feel.
31:08 Miles Briggs and I met
31:09 when I was previously Cabinet Secretary
31:11 for Health and Social Care
31:12 when this issue first emerged.
31:15 And I understand the anger
31:16 not just of the families
31:17 and the children involved,
31:18 but those advocating for them.
31:20 The Scottish Government is working
31:22 in partnership with NHS Lothian
31:23 to ensure continued progress
31:25 against the actions
31:26 of the British Academy of Audiology report.
31:29 The BAA advised that not all
31:32 of the 23,000 children
31:33 seen during the period
31:34 between 2009 and 2018
31:37 required to be reviewed.
31:39 Those who did were offered
31:41 a retest by NHS Lothian
31:43 based on the timeline association
31:45 with the Scottish Public Service
31:46 Ombudsman investigation
31:48 and the sample size
31:49 of the BAA reviews.
31:51 My understanding is that families
31:52 are being directly contacted
31:54 and offered a meeting
31:55 with the NHS Lothian
31:57 senior management team
31:59 to discuss and agree
32:00 an appropriate care plan
32:01 with a focus on ensuring
32:02 the right support is in place.
32:04 Miles Briggs.
32:05 Can I thank the First Minister
32:06 for that answer?
32:07 The series of failures
32:08 in NHS Lothian
32:09 that have denied children
32:10 with hearing loss
32:11 the chance to be identified early
32:13 and receive hearing
32:14 and speech and language therapy
32:16 has been catastrophic
32:17 for children and families
32:18 here in Edinburgh.
32:19 NHS Lothian have never confirmed
32:21 how many parents or guardians
32:22 have been contacted
32:24 or indeed how many
32:24 of the 23,000 children
32:26 have been reassessed to date.
32:28 It's unacceptable
32:29 that families here in Edinburgh
32:30 are having to fight
32:31 for their children
32:32 to access health services
32:34 and the educational support needs
32:35 which they will need as well.
32:37 So can I ask the First Minister
32:38 if the Scottish Government
32:39 will today agree
32:40 to all parents and guardians
32:42 being contacted
32:43 and if needed urgently reassessed?
32:46 And given the many
32:46 outstanding concerns
32:47 which have been contained
32:49 within the inquiries to date,
32:50 what consideration
32:51 have ministers given
32:52 to the need for a public inquiry
32:54 into the audiology scandal
32:55 here in NHS Lothian
32:56 and other cases
32:57 which are being reported
32:58 in other health boards?
33:00 First Minister.
33:01 There's a number of questions
33:03 that Miles Briggs asks me
33:05 and I'll ensure that
33:06 the Cabinet Secretary for Health
33:06 and Social Care provides
33:08 full detail
33:09 in terms of those questions.
33:11 In relation to
33:12 how many families
33:13 have been contacted,
33:14 I will ensure
33:15 that if we can provide
33:17 that information,
33:17 that it is provided
33:18 to Miles Briggs.
33:19 My understanding
33:21 of, of course,
33:21 the BAA review
33:24 that was done
33:25 is that they ended up
33:27 stratifying and ensuring
33:29 that those children affected
33:31 were in various different categories,
33:33 seven categories.
33:34 And of course, those children
33:36 where there were
33:37 significant concerns reported
33:40 were, of course,
33:41 brought in
33:43 for additional retesting
33:46 or indeed there was
33:48 additional clinical oversight
33:51 given to their particular case.
33:53 In terms of all of the children,
33:55 the 23,000 children,
33:58 I will ensure that Miles Briggs
33:59 has given more information
34:00 around that stratification,
34:02 that categorisation.
34:04 But I do want him to have
34:05 a level of assurance
34:07 that those who are most
34:08 seriously impacted,
34:09 therefore highest at risk,
34:11 were indeed given
34:12 additional clinical care.
34:15 In terms of lessons learnt,
34:16 I think it's a very important point
34:17 that Miles Briggs raises.
34:20 We ensured, of course,
34:21 that the lessons
34:22 from this unacceptable
34:24 catalogue of failures
34:25 was, of course, cascaded
34:27 to health boards
34:28 right across the country.
34:30 And of course, we continue
34:31 to make sure
34:32 that our health boards are vigilant
34:33 to learning any of the lessons
34:35 from this very sorry episode.
34:37 But I will ensure
34:38 the information about
34:39 how many children have been seen,
34:40 if we're able to provide
34:41 that information,
34:42 make sure that it's provided
34:43 to Miles Briggs.
34:44 Daniel Johnson.
34:46 Thank you, Presiding Officer.
34:48 The issue we face is,
34:49 despite detailed answers,
34:51 there continue to be parents
34:53 who feel that they have been missed
34:54 and who struggle to get help.
34:57 What we do know is that
34:58 there's 23,000 children
34:59 potentially affected,
35:00 but less than 2,000
35:01 have had a detailed review.
35:03 So what work is being taken
35:05 to ensure that the sampling
35:07 techniques that have been used
35:08 are comprehensive?
35:10 Do we know what number of children
35:12 on the basis of that sampling
35:14 have yet to be identified?
35:17 And do we actually also have to look
35:18 at the time period?
35:19 Because nobody before 2017
35:21 has been looked at at all.
35:23 First Minister.
35:24 Again, I will ensure
35:25 that we give full answers
35:27 to Daniel Johnson in relation to
35:29 the 23,000 children.
35:33 My understanding is, of course,
35:34 that that wasn't a decision
35:35 necessarily taken by NHS Lothian,
35:37 but we know by the British Academy
35:39 of Audiology.
35:41 They designed and conducted
35:45 the audit.
35:46 And then, of course,
35:47 as I have said,
35:48 the children were categorised
35:50 into various different categories
35:51 with, of course, those that were
35:53 the most high risk
35:54 then being given further
35:56 clinical oversight.
35:58 If there are particular parents
36:00 who feel, families who feel
36:02 that they have been--
36:04 that their child hasn't had
36:06 the appropriate level of attention
36:08 or care and are experiencing
36:11 significant impacts,
36:12 or any impact, frankly,
36:14 because of this sorry episode,
36:15 then I would ask that Daniel
36:17 Johnson does bring that
36:17 to the attention of the Cabinet
36:18 Secretary for Health and Social
36:20 Care.
36:20 And I'm sure he will take that up
36:22 with NHS Lothian.
36:23 I'll also ensure--
36:24 I'm sure Daniel Johnson does have
36:25 the contact detail.
36:25 I'd be more than happy to pass
36:27 the contact detail on to Daniel
36:28 Johnson of the appropriate
36:29 individuals within NHS Lothian
36:31 who I know are taking this matter
36:33 with the utmost seriousness.
36:34 Question number six, Pauline
36:35 McNeill.
36:37 To ask the First Minister
36:38 what the Scottish Government's
36:39 response is to reports
36:41 that Scottish Water has issued
36:43 bonus payments to executives
36:45 in excess of public sector pay
36:47 rules.
36:48 First Minister.
36:49 The criteria for paying bonuses
36:51 to Scottish Water's executive
36:53 members are agreed by ministers
36:55 ahead of each regulatory period.
36:57 These are in line with public
36:59 sector pay rules, which state
37:00 that we need to attract
37:02 and retain highly experienced
37:04 personnel to run
37:05 vital public services.
37:06 The current remuneration package
37:08 for the CEO and senior management
37:10 team is significantly smaller
37:12 than that paid by comparable
37:14 utilities, both in terms
37:15 of salary and, indeed,
37:16 bonus incentives.
37:19 Thank you.
37:19 Paul Stephen Kerr.
37:21 Oh, my apologies.
37:23 I think we can afford Pauline
37:25 McNeill a supplementary question.
37:27 A little heart attack there.
37:30 Thank you, Presiding Officer.
37:32 It was reported this week
37:33 that three executives of Scottish
37:35 Water had received nearly
37:36 1.1 million bonuses in 2021.
37:41 But that is on top of a six-figure
37:43 salary, and despite the fact
37:45 that there had been 14,000
37:46 sewage spillages in last year
37:48 alone, which begs the question
37:49 why they did qualify for
37:50 performance bonuses.
37:52 But the same executives are
37:53 withholding a pay rise from
37:55 their workers unless the staff
37:57 accept a new pay structure
37:59 and the poorest would be losing
38:01 as much as 5,000.
38:02 So I have to ask the First
38:03 Minister what has gone wrong
38:06 here that a public sector body
38:08 is paying public sector
38:09 executives who seem to be
38:11 allotting to themselves
38:13 vast amounts of money
38:15 where there are existing
38:16 failures and customers are
38:17 being asked to pay even more
38:19 for the infrastructure.
38:21 Can the First Minister
38:22 justify this in a public
38:24 sector body?
38:25 First Minister, I think
38:26 Pauline McNeill's
38:27 characterisation of Scottish
38:29 Water is deeply, deeply unfair.
38:31 First and foremost,
38:32 I understand when it comes
38:33 to the pay negotiations
38:35 that these are ongoing.
38:36 My understanding is they were
38:37 ongoing until the early
38:38 hours of the morning
38:40 and I'm pleased that
38:40 discussions are ongoing
38:42 and I do hope that strike
38:43 action can be averted
38:45 even at this last minute
38:46 and at this last hour
38:48 because this Government,
38:49 of course, has a very strong
38:51 track record of when it comes
38:52 to ensuring that workers
38:53 are paid fairly.
38:55 In terms of remuneration,
38:57 I had mentioned, of course,
38:58 that Scottish Water
38:59 does have to be competitive.
39:01 If I looked at, for example,
39:03 the CEO's salary,
39:04 it is, of course, a high salary,
39:05 £245,000.
39:08 Compare that to Welsh Water,
39:10 where the base salary
39:12 is £341,000.
39:14 Or United Utilities,
39:16 where the base salary
39:17 is £971,000.
39:19 Now, the reason why I mention that
39:21 is because these are from
39:22 salary comparison tables
39:24 for 2022-23,
39:25 is that we have to make sure
39:26 that Scottish Water is able
39:28 to attract the best talent
39:30 right across the country
39:31 and indeed right across the world.
39:34 But these remunerations,
39:35 when it comes to the bonus element
39:38 of any remuneration package,
39:40 bonuses are only paid
39:42 in the event of outperformance
39:44 of demand targets
39:45 that are, and this is crucial,
39:46 verified by independent regulators.
39:50 Stephen Kerr.
39:52 Thank you.
39:52 The First Minister will be aware
39:54 of the damning report
39:56 on drinking water
39:57 by the Drinking Water Quality
39:58 Regulator for Scotland.
40:00 Sue Petch, the regulator,
40:02 called out a backlog of maintenance,
40:05 neglect of the maintenance of assets,
40:08 and said that this posed a
40:10 "real danger to human health"
40:12 and has issued an enforcement order.
40:14 Now, the First Minister is accountable
40:16 for Scottish Water.
40:18 So what is the First Minister
40:19 going to do to ensure
40:20 that this enforcement notice
40:22 is carried out
40:24 and this backlog is properly
40:26 dealt with?
40:27 First Minister.
40:30 We will ensure that
40:31 Scottish Water invests
40:32 significant amounts of money
40:34 over the coming period.
40:35 In fact, Scottish Water will invest
40:36 £4.5 billion
40:38 across the 2021-27 period.
40:41 That investment programme
40:42 is supported by Government borrowing
40:44 of up to £1.03 billion
40:47 and £880 million
40:50 was invested in 2022-23,
40:52 upgrading essential treatment works,
40:54 water supply and sewer networks.
40:56 In terms of Scotland's water quality,
40:58 we know from SEPA
41:00 that 87 per cent of Scotland's
41:01 entire water environment
41:03 is assessed as having
41:04 either a high or good classification
41:06 for water quality.
41:08 But in terms of the enforcement notice,
41:09 which Stephen Kerr
41:12 of course is right to raise,
41:13 it is my full expectation
41:15 that Scottish Water will comply.
41:18 There's much demand, of course,
41:19 for supplementary questions.
41:21 If we can keep our questions
41:22 and responses concise,
41:23 we'll get more members in.
41:24 And I call Willie Rennie.
41:27 Sewage dumped 14,000 times last year.
41:29 Fecal bacteria 50 times
41:32 the legal limit in lower Largo.
41:34 Dry sewage dumping in St Andrews.
41:37 How on earth can the First Minister
41:39 justify such whopping bonuses
41:42 when those Scottish water bosses
41:44 are responsible for such failure?
41:46 First Minister,
41:48 I've just mentioned the fact that 87 per cent
41:50 of Scotland's entire water environment
41:52 is assessed by SEPA
41:53 as having high or good classification.
41:55 But I've also made the point,
41:56 which Willie Rennie clearly did not listen to,
41:58 that when it comes to the remuneration
42:00 or the awarding of bonuses,
42:03 they are for where, of course,
42:04 performance targets have been met and exceeded.
42:08 And of course, they are independently
42:10 verified by regulators.
42:12 And it is important that for a public company,
42:15 publicly owned company like Scottish Water,
42:17 that they are able to compete.
42:18 And the CEO's base salary
42:20 is far lower than many other
42:22 comparative water companies,
42:23 utility companies right across the UK.
42:27 Thank you. We move to general
42:28 and constituency supplementaries.
42:30 And I call Rona Mackay.
42:32 Thank you, Presiding Officer.
42:33 The news of 450 jobs being cut at Reach PLC
42:37 is deeply concerning and speaks to a wider issue
42:39 of resourcing and journalism.
42:41 Does the First Minister agree
42:43 that with senior executives withdrawing bonuses
42:46 in the millions of pounds
42:48 while hard-working journalists
42:49 are thrown in the scrap heap,
42:50 the real loser in this is our very democracy?
42:53 First Minister.
42:54 Yes, I do agree with that wholeheartedly.
42:56 Reports of any job losses are, of course,
42:59 concerning, especially for the workers involved
43:01 and indeed their families.
43:03 But more than that, in this particular case,
43:06 we know that a free, a vibrant, independent press
43:09 is the very bedrock of a functioning democracy.
43:11 We want to do all we can to support
43:14 the sustainability and the diversity
43:16 of journalism in Scotland.
43:18 So I'd urge media organisations to be investing
43:21 in the sort of quality journalism
43:23 that is so important in an open society,
43:26 not making the cuts that have been reported
43:28 and that Rona Mackay is right to raise today.
43:31 Alexander Burnett.
43:33 Thank you, Presiding Officer.
43:34 Now, there is a protest happening
43:36 outside Parliament today for New Roots Home
43:38 to recognise those who are locked up in hospital.
43:41 And I welcome families of these patients
43:43 in the Chamber today,
43:44 including constituents of mine,
43:46 Tracy and Natalie, mother and sister of Kyle,
43:49 who has been locked up for 14 years.
43:51 Now, hundreds of autistic people
43:54 and people with learning disabilities
43:55 are stuck inappropriately in out-of-area placements,
43:59 hospitals and secure units,
44:02 dozens of whom have been there for over a decade,
44:05 a millennium of lost years in captivity.
44:08 So as we approach the March 2024 deadline
44:11 in the Coming Home Report,
44:13 can the First Minister say what the Scottish Government
44:15 has done to get these patients home?
44:17 First Minister.
44:20 Thank you, Presiding Officer.
44:21 Can I credit Alexander Burnett,
44:23 who has raised this issue on many occasions
44:25 on behalf of his constituents.
44:28 And we are, as a Government, absolutely committed
44:31 to delivering the coming home recommendations
44:33 to reduce inappropriate hospital stays
44:36 and out-of-area placements experienced by people
44:38 with learning disabilities and complex care needs.
44:41 What have we done?
44:42 I can ensure that we get a fuller answer
44:44 to Alexander Burnett,
44:45 but to give him some examples,
44:46 we've launched the new dynamic support registers,
44:49 one of the very key recommendations
44:51 to improve that local case management of people
44:53 with learning disabilities and complex care needs.
44:57 That is a very important step
44:58 towards achieving the coming home vision,
45:01 which will help local areas to plan for people
45:04 with learning disabilities and complex care needs
45:06 to live in their home communities.
45:09 We've also developed a practitioner peer support network
45:13 and a national support panel
45:14 to support local areas to share best practice.
45:17 And we've provided £20 million
45:19 under our community living change fund
45:21 to integration authorities to design community-based solutions
45:25 that avoid or limit future hospital use
45:27 and, indeed, out-of-area placements.
45:30 We all want—I know Alexander Burnett will agree with this—
45:33 to support, to ensure that people are supported
45:36 to be in a home that is absolutely right for them
45:39 and as close to their families
45:40 and in their communities as possible.
45:43 Jackie Baillie.
45:45 The First Minister may be aware that NICE and the SMC
45:48 have determined that cystic fibrosis drugs
45:50 that are literally life-saving
45:52 will no longer be available on the NHS
45:55 because they consider the drugs to be clinically effective
45:58 but not cost-effective.
46:00 It is important to say, though,
46:01 that those already receiving Orkambi,
46:04 Simkevi and Caftrio will continue to do so,
46:07 but new patients will not.
46:10 And the First Minister knows that cystic fibrosis
46:13 is a life-limiting condition.
46:15 So can I ask the First Minister,
46:16 will he meet CF families
46:19 and work with the UK Government
46:20 to negotiate a more acceptable cost
46:23 from the drug manufacturer Vertex
46:25 to literally save lives?
46:27 First Minister.
46:28 Can I thank Jackie Baillie
46:31 for raising a very important point, indeed.
46:33 And of course, we will continue our engagement
46:36 with drug companies, with the UK Government
46:38 and of course, the Cabinet Secretary for Health
46:41 regularly meets with families that have been impacted
46:44 and affected.
46:46 What I would say to Jackie Baillie is that
46:48 existing patients, of course,
46:50 it is important to make this point,
46:51 and she, to reiterate the point that Jackie Baillie made,
46:53 existing patients on a treatment for cystic fibrosis
46:57 will continue to have access to the existing treatments
46:59 after NICE has issued its final recommendations
47:03 irrespective of the outcome.
47:05 However, I know that there are discussions that are ongoing.
47:07 I know the Scottish Medicines Consortium
47:09 is collaborating with NICE
47:12 on a joint multiple technology appraisal
47:14 of several cystic fibrosis medicines,
47:17 including CAF TRIO.
47:19 The SMC will publish final recommendations
47:22 aligned with NICE guidance for health boards
47:24 in Scotland to consider.
47:26 But I think the suggestion from Jackie Baillie
47:28 is certainly one that we will seek to take up
47:30 in relation to those conversations and engagement
47:33 with the drug companies themselves.
47:34 Karen Adam.
47:36 Thank you, Presiding Officer.
47:38 I was delighted to see the new and updated
47:40 British Sign Language action plan released this past week.
47:43 I want to thank the First Minister for his help and support
47:47 with my continued work in this area.
47:49 Can I ask the First Minister how this plan will support
47:52 British Sign Language use in Scotland?
47:54 First Minister.
47:55 I think the whole Chamber can recognise
47:57 the incredible work that Karen Adam has done
47:59 in relation to British Sign Language,
48:01 and I want to pay tribute to her efforts in this regard.
48:04 We are absolutely committed to making Scotland
48:07 the best place in the world
48:08 for British Sign Language users to live,
48:10 to work, to visit and, indeed, to learn.
48:13 The BSL national plan, 23 to 29,
48:17 contains 45 actions to help us meet this very ambition.
48:21 We recognise that to deliver our aims,
48:23 we need to ensure the BSL community
48:25 are at the very heart of the decision-making process.
48:29 That's why we're establishing an implementation advisory group
48:32 to support this plan,
48:33 hold us to account, but also to inform our thinking
48:36 in the delivery of each action.
48:39 This group will be made up of organisations
48:41 representing BSL users,
48:43 the deaf and the deafblind community.
48:45 It is important to note that this is not a static plan.
48:49 It will continue to evolve to ensure our actions
48:52 tackle the barriers faced by BSL users
48:54 in their everyday lives.
48:57 Ros McCall.
48:59 Thank you, Presiding Officer.
49:01 First Minister, alarming figures from Fife
49:03 have shown that violence and bullying within our schools
49:06 is at unprecedented levels.
49:09 The local authority staff reported
49:10 almost 3,500 physical attacks and threats
49:14 in just the last year.
49:15 6,480 pupils reported being bullied
49:19 during the same time period.
49:21 And the response from Fife Council's anti-bullying policy
49:24 is that punishing bullying is counterproductive,
49:27 so nothing will happen.
49:29 First Minister, do you agree with this policy?
49:31 And what do you have to say to the thousands of young people
49:33 in Fife who are victims of bullying?
49:36 First Minister.
49:38 I think it's really important for an issue of this magnitude
49:41 that we are characterising the situation
49:43 absolutely correctly and accurately.
49:45 Ros McCall, of course, is right to raise
49:47 the very worrying issues and concerns that we have
49:50 about violence and bullying in schools.
49:52 I know the Education Secretary has had now two summits
49:56 on school behaviour,
49:57 and there's another one, I think, due very, very shortly.
50:01 She's also met with parents, with teaching unions,
50:04 children's organisations, and representatives
50:06 right across the education sector.
50:09 On 25 October last month,
50:13 attendees shared their experiences of relationships
50:16 and behaviour approaches
50:18 and discussed potential solutions to ensure safe
50:20 and consistent environments in schools.
50:23 And as I say, that followed on from the very first meeting
50:24 which took place in September.
50:28 The discussions at the events have been constructive.
50:30 There's been some very good suggestions
50:32 which the Education Secretary will seek to take up.
50:34 In relation to more specific issues that Ros McCall may have,
50:38 then I would ask her to continue to engage
50:39 with the Education Secretary on these points.
50:42 Paul Sweeney.
50:43 Community link worker posts are set to be reduced
50:45 from 64 to 42 in Glasgow from next year.
50:48 One Glasgow GP this week told the BBC
50:50 that these cuts could result in lives being lost.
50:53 And I understand the government has put a funding offer
50:56 to the Health and Social Care Partnership in Glasgow,
50:58 but that was rejected.
51:00 Can the First Minister please provide an update
51:02 on discussions with the Health and Social Care Partnership
51:05 and advise what options remain to save these critical
51:08 and cost-effective roles
51:10 in some of our most deprived communities?
51:12 First Minister.
51:13 Can I join with Paul Sweeney
51:16 in recognising the importance of community link workers?
51:19 I think all of us that have community link workers
51:21 in our constituencies have seen the invaluable service
51:23 that they provide.
51:25 And every single GP practice, for example,
51:28 that I have spoken to sees them as a really valuable member
51:31 and critical member of their staff.
51:33 Paul Sweeney was right to recognise
51:35 that the Scottish Government have offered additional funding.
51:38 That doesn't seem to be enough,
51:40 according to the Glasgow Health and Social Care Partnership.
51:42 In order to continue with the full provision
51:44 of community links workers,
51:45 we're continuing to engage with them.
51:47 I'd expect to be able to update Paul Sweeney
51:49 and those in the chamber that have an interest in this,
51:52 hopefully at some point next week.
51:54 And Ash Regan.
51:56 Thank you, Presiding Officer.
51:57 The First Minister will be aware
51:59 of the serious fireworks-related disorder in Nidri
52:03 just a few days ago.
52:05 And constituents have written to me
52:07 and told me about how terrified they were during that time.
52:11 Will the First Minister join me in condemning the violence,
52:15 particularly the attacks on our emergency services?
52:18 And I'd also like to take this opportunity to stress
52:21 that incidents such as these should not be used
52:24 to talk down the communities that I represent.
52:27 Would the First Minister agree with me
52:28 that a ban on fireworks is only possible
52:31 with the full powers of independence,
52:33 that the Government should implement
52:35 the Fireworks Act 2022 as a matter of urgency,
52:40 and will he consider additional resources
52:42 to hotspot areas such as my constituency
52:46 of Edinburgh Eastern?
52:47 First Minister.
52:48 Can I say that, first and foremost,
52:51 we condemn in the strongest possible manner
52:53 the violence and the reckless actions that we saw,
52:57 not just in the Member's constituency,
52:59 but in other parts of the country as well.
53:02 Let me also then pay tribute to our emergency workers,
53:06 in particular our fire officers and police officers
53:09 who were on the front line,
53:10 and say just how despicable it is, of course,
53:12 that they were under attack in this way.
53:15 In relation to a wholesale ban,
53:18 it's my understanding that it's not within our competency,
53:22 but we will seek to do more.
53:23 Whatever we can do within legislation,
53:25 we will seek to do.
53:27 That is why we have brought forward legislation
53:29 and regulation over the years, of course,
53:31 most recently in relation to the fireworks
53:34 and pyrotechnics article act 2022.
53:38 We're going to have to work with our local authorities
53:40 to see what more we can do in relation to additional resource.
53:43 That is a fair request.
53:45 What I would say finally, of course,
53:47 is that it should not require government legislation
53:51 or regulation to know that you shouldn't be firing fireworks
53:54 at police officers or fire officers.
53:56 So those, of course, who are responsible,
53:59 my hope is, as the police investigation is ongoing,
54:03 if they are found to be guilty of such behaviour,
54:05 then they feel the full force of the law, Presiding Officer.
54:08 Thank you. That concludes First Minister's Questions.
54:11 (MUSIC)