Podcast: What's Going On, What Could Have Been
In the latest episode of the Las Vegas Raiders Insider Podcast, we take you inside the facility to learn what is going on, and some breaking news on what could have been.
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00:00 Hi everybody, this is Hondo Carpenter from Sports Illustrated's Fan Nation Las Vegas
00:06 Raiders Insider Podcast here at the Raiders training facility.
00:11 Got another great podcast coming at you today.
00:13 We're going to be breaking some information.
00:15 We got a lot of good news.
00:16 Let's welcome in this guy, one of my best friends in the whole world, the great Johnny
00:20 Shoppe.
00:21 Johnny, how you doing, bud?
00:22 I'm doing good.
00:23 I love going around the NFL.
00:24 The leaves are changing.
00:25 They're falling in different parts of the country that have leaves and there's always
00:30 more to come.
00:31 I think we're going to start to get more trickles of news as we're starting to see different
00:35 things come out of different teams, different organizations.
00:39 As we get into the month, that's really going to separate those that have a playoff shot
00:43 and those that are ready to pack it in.
00:46 I have some breaking news a little bit later in the podcast just about the Raiders.
00:51 I think it may frustrate some Raider fans, but I think it'll give some good insight that
00:57 you'll find very fascinating.
00:59 But first, John, we see the Raiders, they move on from Josh McDaniels.
01:04 You know this because you and I have talked a lot.
01:07 We were very clear that people were frustrated, but that there had been assurances given that
01:12 no one was going to lose their jobs.
01:14 In the end, it was just too much.
01:15 The rigidity of Josh McDaniels just was too much.
01:19 Mark Davis had to make a move, and now you've got an owner who's paying over $110 million
01:25 to former coaches and executives and everyone else.
01:30 The narrative of him being broke and not caring should be dead.
01:35 This was a big move by the owner.
01:37 There are a lot of owners that would not have made it.
01:39 I mean, dear God, you look at the Chargers and wonder why is that guy still employed?
01:45 But I thought it was a big move, but I think it's one he should have made.
01:48 Your thoughts on the Raiders' move?
01:50 Yeah, I think as we kind of talked about, the timing was pretty much right.
01:56 Reason being, once there's a critical mass of players that are either not bought in or
02:00 not fully bought in, something has to change.
02:04 You know, when I heard the story about the airing of the grievances in the locker room,
02:08 I thought, "Hey, that's fine with the team."
02:11 But the second I heard that then McDaniels got to air any grievances, I was like, "Oh
02:16 boy."
02:17 I will say there have been some things that were reported about that meeting that were
02:21 not accurate.
02:22 But yeah, I thought the meeting was great.
02:28 I was told, and I shared this with you right after it happened off the record because you
02:33 and I talk all the time.
02:34 It wasn't all about Josh.
02:37 It wasn't a "We hate Josh."
02:39 Everyone got to share what they felt.
02:42 No.
02:43 Was there stuff directed at Josh?
02:45 Absolutely.
02:47 But everyone got to share what bothered them.
02:49 I thought that was a big deal, and I credit him for doing it.
02:52 A lot of coaches wouldn't have.
02:53 Bill wouldn't have never done it.
02:54 In fact, there's players on this team right now who played in New England that told me
02:58 he wouldn't have done it.
03:00 But the rigidity of the Los Angeles Chargers game when he wouldn't change his offense for
03:06 the rookie, the rigidity of not trying anything new in Chicago, and the rigidity of Detroit,
03:15 and then seeing his players, no joy, no fun.
03:19 It was just done.
03:20 Just done.
03:21 It was a good move.
03:22 So-
03:23 Let me make a prop here.
03:25 This is square.
03:27 This is round.
03:28 This is maybe my favorite football idea of all time.
03:33 This is probably not going to fit into this.
03:36 And at the NFL level, how many times are you going to get a shot to do that?
03:40 Probably not many.
03:41 So I think the time was right.
03:43 Players got to own, coaches got to coach, players got to play.
03:46 I understand a lot of Raiders' issues probably with other guys on their team.
03:50 But the greatest way to really turn the page over, they found a way.
03:54 And look, we're not going to put Antonio Pierce on a giant stone and put it on Las Vegas Boulevard
04:02 yet.
04:03 But there is a credibility factor when you have a guy who had a good pro career, who
04:08 was a player in pretty much the modern era, and who was on Super Bowl winning teams.
04:13 So we expect an instant boost when you've got a new coach.
04:17 We actually talked about it and kind of got predictions right.
04:21 We'll talk, I'm sure, about the schedule, because this is the last week before a real
04:28 massive chunk of that Raiders' schedule happened.
04:31 We're talking about a build-up to Christmas.
04:32 And the first thing they got to do is just hammer the Jets, who obviously cannot move
04:39 the ball and will not score a number of touchdowns.
04:42 So this is a really good launching point.
04:45 I think the timing of the move would actually probably be smarter than it maybe seemed at
04:50 first.
04:51 Yeah, I agree with you.
04:52 All right, so let's dig in.
04:54 I thought everything, I'm rooting for Antonio Pierce.
04:58 I'm rooting for Champ Kelly.
04:59 I wanted Champ Kelly to get the GM job before.
05:03 In fact, I wrote an article back when they made the move, three potential GM candidates
05:11 and Dave Ziegler and Champ Kelly were two of the three.
05:15 And they got them both.
05:17 I want Champ to get it.
05:18 I like him a lot.
05:21 And then I like Antonio.
05:22 And if he gets it, it's because he's earned it.
05:24 And I want to see him earn it.
05:25 I like good people.
05:26 He's a good guy.
05:27 I want to know my connection to him.
05:30 And I really like Antonio a lot too.
05:32 I'm rooting for both of them.
05:34 John, the Raiders have a very difficult decision.
05:39 I don't think it's difficult.
05:40 Let me rephrase that.
05:41 But I think it will be difficult for the owner.
05:46 Who's he going to listen to?
05:48 He has not done things on his own.
05:51 So with a track record of not doing things on his own, where his dad did, who is he listening
05:56 to?
05:57 Is he listening to a close set of advisors?
05:59 Is he listening to former players?
06:01 Is he listening to Tom Brady, who we broke the story the other day just because the NFL
06:05 rejected the ownership?
06:07 He's not out of the picture.
06:09 I do believe that it will end up with him at some point being an owner, a part owner.
06:16 Who's he going to listen to?
06:17 Because his last two coaches, they basically were the boss and the GM worked for them.
06:23 I don't think that works.
06:25 Coaches are too tunnel-visioned.
06:26 I think they need somebody that they trust.
06:29 There's got to be a harmony, but they've got to have that guy to say, "Listen, coach, you're
06:35 not scouting.
06:37 You're not doing everything that we're doing.
06:39 You're thinking about a guy you saw in SportsCenter.
06:42 You just got to trust me here.
06:43 The answer is no, I'm not going for him."
06:46 In a minute, we're going to see an example of where that really hurt the Raiders in the
06:53 last draft, big time.
06:56 But your thoughts on, I think it's an easy decision.
07:00 I think you hire Champ Kelly right now because there's not a lot he can do during the season
07:05 to change this team.
07:06 I think you go out and say, "Listen, this is my guy.
07:08 I'm hiring Champ right now and Champ's going to pick a coach.
07:12 He's going to run it by me, sure, but he's going to pick the coach."
07:15 I think that's the way to go.
07:17 What are your thoughts?
07:19 If you think that Champ Kelly's got his finger on the things that need to be covered to be
07:24 a GM, I think there's probably more of an advantage in making that hire sooner than
07:29 later.
07:30 You can look at the calendar, folks, and say, "Oh, the draft's a million years off.
07:34 Free agency is."
07:35 In one way, it is, but the NFL is a 365-day-a-year business, and I don't see any possible advantage
07:44 for them delaying that if they think this is a guy that's got his fingers on it.
07:49 Now, we look across the world.
07:50 This is around the NFL.
07:52 We're going all the way around.
07:53 We can start the whole around the country.
07:56 Does it work when a coach is basically a coach and GM?
07:59 Typically not.
08:00 We saw Bill O'Brien in Houston.
08:02 We've seen Pete Carroll in Seattle, which is interesting to watch, but that's ebbed
08:06 and flowed a bit.
08:07 It typically doesn't, so you know you're going to have two.
08:10 And then what do we have?
08:11 Do we have a GM in title?
08:16 That seems to be dangerous.
08:17 There haven't been a lot of coaches that have called the shots that have gotten a whole
08:20 lot of them right.
08:21 That's the thing that concerns me, and when you talk about influences in Mark Davis's
08:26 ear, what if those influences don't often know what they're talking about?
08:31 There's a lot of well-meaning ex-players, for sure, in the Raider organization, the
08:35 Giants, et cetera, that have great ideas for input.
08:40 Just look back at Washington.
08:42 That owner was listening to guys.
08:44 Holy cow.
08:45 They had trouble on the field, off the field, and they got legal troubles, and these are
08:49 the guys you're listening to to make picks?
08:51 So you've got to be real cautious on who you're listening to, but I actually think
08:55 that the Raiders, if they believe this is a guy that's got his finger on the pulse of
09:01 the sport, he knows what's going on, what a general manager needs to do with evaluation,
09:07 scouting, all that stuff that they do, that they probably should go ahead when they're
09:12 ready and say, "That's our guy."
09:15 Call me crazy.
09:16 I don't know of any top-end, like big names.
09:19 The days of the big, massive general manager kind of seem maybe past.
09:24 There were some great ones in the '80s and '90s, San Francisco, Washington, Bobby Bethard,
09:29 guys that went, Bill Pullian, of course.
09:31 Ron Wolf?
09:32 Yeah, oh my gosh, Ron Wolf.
09:35 Are those guys really out there right now?
09:37 I don't think so, and I'm not sure what the process of hiring a GM, I don't think it's
09:43 quite the same as a coach for many reasons.
09:46 I think you go hire Jim Kelly right now and move on.
09:51 They got to get it right.
09:53 If they get it right, as soon as the Raiders get it right, it can take off pretty quickly,
09:58 and that might be the thing.
09:59 It's like, "All right, let's reset the deck, pick a general manager to have him generally
10:03 manage and then pick a coach and have those things line up, be aligned."
10:08 Misalignment of coach and GM, how often does it work?
10:10 Like one out of 10 times maybe?
10:13 And that's because of overwhelming talent?
10:15 I agree.
10:16 All right, let's move on now.
10:20 Will Levis is a guy.
10:23 Are you buying or selling?
10:24 Now I'm going to go back and say this.
10:26 There was great concern about him, not necessarily from arm strength questions.
10:35 Okay, we're just going to leave it right there.
10:38 There's a reason that he dropped.
10:41 So I know that people are seeing what he's doing in Tennessee, and I think he's done
10:46 well.
10:48 I don't wish him any ill will.
10:52 Are you a buyer?
10:53 I know of multiple teams that were not interested in him in the first round, so he pans out.
11:01 Well, that's not true.
11:03 It's only been a couple of games.
11:04 If he pans out, they get a deal.
11:06 There were people that didn't want, there were many teams that were not picking Jalen
11:11 Carter.
11:12 In fact, if you go back and read his agent, Drew Rosenhaus, was really working the Eagles
11:18 because he knew if the Eagles didn't pick him, he was going to free fall.
11:22 Not because he was talented.
11:23 I know the Raiders thought he was the most talented player in the last draft.
11:28 I know several other organizations, not just that one, that felt the same way, but because
11:33 of the character issues, they weren't going to invest that money and put that pick, your
11:37 first pick is so valuable, that they weren't going to do it.
11:41 So Jalen pays off, and people are like, "Oh, you should have picked Jalen."
11:44 Okay, until it didn't work out, like most people in his situation, and it's not even
11:48 been a year, then you're like, "Oh, these guys got to get fired.
11:52 Look at who they pick."
11:54 I understand people being cautious.
11:58 Will Levis, I wish him well.
12:00 I think he's very talented.
12:01 The issues with him weren't talented, but are you buying Will Levis?
12:06 I'm holding.
12:07 You can call me conservative.
12:09 I want to see defenses adjust to him.
12:12 One of the reasons we see sometimes a late scratch or a quarterback come in and have
12:17 real quick success right away is because the defense doesn't have a chance to, they didn't
12:21 gain plan for him, and they haven't been able to adjust.
12:24 I want to see what happens with the adjustment to Will Levis.
12:27 What I see in Will Levis, I thought I saw an underdeveloped quarterback.
12:31 There's too many guys to me that go early to the NFL, like Zach Wilson, that aren't
12:34 developed.
12:35 They can't, they're not developed yet.
12:38 How much development do they do at the NFL level?
12:41 That's the thing that interests me in Will Levis.
12:42 I'm like, "Wait a second.
12:43 What has this guy done to actually develop in his time as a professional?"
12:48 Over time, we'll find out if he is indeed a starting quarterback.
12:52 If he is, you give him a massive pat on the back and say, "Hey, congratulations.
12:56 You took yourself up and you actually developed into a starting NFL quarterback.
12:59 I like the size, and size is a big deal to me.
13:02 The arm strength is fine, but I'm not buying yet.
13:05 I'm glad that he's going to get a run of games because we're going to see tape and see adjustments
13:11 by the defense at the Titans' face in the coming weeks."
13:15 It is something to watch though because you're like, "Wait a second."
13:19 Obviously, with what happened last weekend, all eyes are down on CJ Stroud in Houston,
13:25 but it's like, "Wait a minute.
13:26 Will Levis?
13:27 Where did this come from?"
13:31 It's something to watch, but it's too soon to buy.
13:32 Too soon.
13:33 I know the Raiders and others had him really low valued because of non-football things.
13:40 Some football, but none.
13:41 Let's go to the next guy.
13:44 You know this, John, and so does the inside, but a lot of people know I reported all last
13:50 year there was one quarterback that the Raiders were willing to go after.
13:56 I've had several people say, "Can you say who it was?
13:58 Can you say who it was?"
13:59 I can now.
14:01 Josh McDaniels was the decision maker, and he was what it was willing to go for Bryce
14:09 Young.
14:10 The interesting part was Dave Ziegler, the general manager, he thought height, durability
14:19 were all issues with Bryce.
14:22 Liked him as a player, liked him as a guy, but didn't think he was worthy there.
14:27 He wanted to go up and get CJ Stroud.
14:32 That was a big deal, and McDaniels was not.
14:37 He was a Bryce Young guy, and Dave Ziegler was a, "Let's go up and get CJ Stroud.
14:42 This guy's got a chance to be super good."
14:47 But again, Dave had a boss, like we all do, and again, for people that think I'm just
14:54 carrying the water for Dave Ziegler, I'm going to be getting into the fact of why he
14:59 failed, and he did.
15:01 I'm not.
15:02 I'm just telling the facts now that people aren't there, I can say it.
15:05 It's just fascinating to me, because I'm a big believer in CJ Stroud.
15:12 Your thoughts?
15:14 My thoughts are, listen, if it sounds like I'm Bill Parcell's disciple, yes and no.
15:21 I'm from NFC East Country, but it's not like I'm Parcell's all day.
15:25 But I do think there's some value in the size issue.
15:30 Young is 5'10", that's not going to change.
15:32 He's 2'04", that's not going to change either to a significant extent.
15:37 What I mean by that is, he's not going to turn into 2'20".
15:40 It's not going to happen.
15:42 Out of the gate, I thought that Stroud had more of a durability factor, and I think that
15:53 maybe Ryan Day is a better quarterback preparer than the past folks at Ohio State.
16:00 Well, at least in the Meyer era.
16:03 You can go back to the Trestle era, maybe the players were different.
16:06 But it's not like there's been a long line of just, "Here come the Buckeye quarterback."
16:10 So I understand that.
16:12 The Alabama quarterback you know is going to be a smart football player, and there's
16:16 no question that Young is.
16:18 But I thought that-
16:19 And let's say, no character issues, none of that, but it was all size and durability.
16:26 So size, durability, and upside.
16:29 When I look at the upside, I don't see a huge upside for Bryce Young.
16:34 I didn't see a huge upside for Bryce Young before.
16:37 I don't know, if Bryce Young were coming in the coming draft, where would he rank in the
16:43 quarterbacks?
16:44 Would he be even in the top three or four?
16:46 I don't know.
16:47 So to me, it seemed like a stretch at number one.
16:52 I have concerns about the owner in Carolina that have yet to be refuted.
16:57 I don't know what's going on there, and I don't know how much of that decision was made
17:04 for the football team by the guy that owns the team.
17:07 What I do see is the same thing that everybody saw.
17:11 We talked about possibly the Texans could be like a surprise if everything kind of went
17:15 their way.
17:16 As of today, they are a surprise.
17:19 They are currently apparently overachieving based on their roster, based on their record
17:23 in previous years, and based on reasonable expectations.
17:25 I'm not talking about Texans fans or somebody that's like, "Oh, they're going to be horrible.
17:30 They were so bad last year."
17:32 I don't know that anybody thought that they would kind of be where they are, but it does
17:36 look like they have a quarterback from the beginning that seems to be in sync with his
17:43 team.
17:44 I can't remember if we talked about the 35 different handshakes he has with the different
17:48 guys on the team.
17:50 This is not a knock on any other quarterback in the NFL, but when you see a sign of a guy
17:55 really making an emphasis and intentionally trying to create chemistry with his team,
18:00 you think to yourself, "That's a pretty smart guy, and he's a rookie."
18:06 That's maybe an intangible that takes him up a notch.
18:09 I don't know if that stuff was known about CJ Straub before.
18:12 I do think he's got more of a durability and more of an upside than Young.
18:18 Right now, he's got a lot of eyeballs.
18:21 People actually want to see what are the Texans doing.
18:25 It's been a while since that was the case.
18:28 You know that's got to just run Raiders furious that Ziegler wanted to go up and get Straub.
18:35 Let's just move on.
18:39 I don't want to pour salt in their wounds.
18:42 It should, though.
18:44 It's a little too soon to pour the salt.
18:46 If we're talking about this a year from now, maybe the salt, but nah, I'm with you.
18:53 I reported months ago before anyone else on this podcast with you that I was hearing if
19:01 Bill Belichick didn't get to the playoffs that he would be fired.
19:06 Several of my critics, then a story comes out, he signed a new agreement.
19:10 I just laughed.
19:11 I don't defend myself, just keep my mouth shut.
19:13 Now everybody's reporting it, may not even make it out of this weekend over in Frankfurt,
19:18 Germany.
19:19 Now we're seeing an angle that we're hearing rumors that maybe he gets traded to Washington.
19:29 If I'm Washington, I'm not trading.
19:30 I'm not giving up draft capital.
19:32 My team sucks.
19:33 I'm going to wait and let you fire him, but I think it's just an angle how the Patriots
19:38 are constantly working.
19:39 I love it.
19:40 That's what it looks like to me.
19:42 If I'm seeing a story of why is there so much chatter about the Washington soon to be named
19:49 again franchise trading for Belichick.
19:51 The first thing I'm thinking is I assume it's a coach and then he's a transition to a general
19:56 manager at some point.
19:58 And second thing I'm thinking is why is that coming out?
20:00 And then I'm seeing, it looks like the, I don't know if the Patriots are feeding media
20:05 or giving media ideas, but they're like, Hey, you know, Mike Frabel would be like the perfect
20:09 replacement for Bill Belichick.
20:10 Well, number one, yeah, that makes logical sense that anyone can see.
20:15 Number two, why is this coming out now?
20:17 I am going to start wondering where these stories are coming from.
20:21 Are they coming from Bill Belichick?
20:23 Who's ready to leave new England?
20:25 Are they coming from people that own and operate the Patriots who have maybe, I mean, it's
20:30 been like an incredible successful, but many, many decades and the success train appears
20:35 to have stopped.
20:36 And in the NFL, sorry, go ahead.
20:39 Yeah.
20:40 The NFL, when that train stops, if you can change tracks quickly, unless your name, the
20:44 Pittsburgh Steelers, most of the time you want to do it sooner than later.
20:49 We got to hurry a little bit.
20:50 Cause I got a press conference here.
20:51 I was just outside my door in a minute.
20:53 I mean, literally right here in this room, but I want to get to the thing is it's going
20:58 to probably be Gerard Mayo is going to be the next coach.
21:01 And if that, for some reason doesn't work out, then they would go for variable.
21:04 All right, let's do our quick four game picks.
21:07 Quick four, these ones matter.
21:09 Washington at Seattle, we're getting to the point where somebody's good and somebody's
21:13 still going to stay in the playoff hunt.
21:15 Houston and Cincinnati.
21:17 Everyone wants to see hot.
21:18 Who's hotter than any.
21:20 They are hotter than anybody right now.
21:22 San Francisco after the buy, after the trade, after the losses coming in a low country to
21:27 take on the guy with the big head and the big hair 49ers at Jags.
21:32 Jags.
21:34 How in the world could San Francisco lose another one?
21:36 I think say they can't, I'm going to take San Francisco for no good reason.
21:40 Honestly, Cleveland at Baltimore again, if Cleveland's going to stay in the playoff hunt,
21:44 they got to find a way to win this, but they can't win at Baltimore.
21:46 Can they?
21:47 That thing is starting to take off.
21:48 It's taken off.
21:49 Baltimore wins it.
21:51 I'm with you.
21:52 Ravens.
21:53 All right.
21:54 Thank you, John.
21:55 What is your Raiders jets pick?
21:58 28 Raiders, 13 jets.
22:01 The jets can't score.
22:02 No way.
22:03 Wait, wait, 28, 13 Raiders.
22:06 Raiders.
22:07 Yeah.
22:08 The Raiders are going to pretty much kill them.
22:09 The jets can't score.
22:10 We saw Monday night.
22:11 Nothing's going to change.
22:12 They can't move the ball.
22:13 They can't score.
22:14 All right.
22:15 Thanks, buddy.
22:16 Appreciate you from all of us here at sports illustrated fan nation, Las Vegas Raiders
22:18 insider network.
22:19 I'm in pod network podcast, part of the fans for sports network.
22:23 Thanks for joining us, everybody.
22:24 See you later.
22:25 Have a good one.
22:25 one.