'I studied architecture' Abdou Cisse on where his design thinking comes from!
Yourcinemafilms.com | ‘I studied architecture’ this week on the #Yourcinemapodcast we had the creative genius that is Abdou Cisse (Festival of Slaps, Grime Kids) join us
He shares where his design eye came from, how art is different to design and going in depth about his creative process!
If you’re a creative you’ll need to watch this twice cos… You’ll see
Are you ready for the truth?
Check out last week's episode with Cassandra Johnson-Bekoe on how new writers should take their time with their projects and not bouncing from agent to agent throughout their career.
Listen on:
Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/0K6ugRFXfgZ4B3jeWEWQTU
Apple podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-your-cinema-podcast/id1712678244
’Welcome to Your Cinema'
Follow us on socials:
Tiktok: @yourcinemafilms
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He shares where his design eye came from, how art is different to design and going in depth about his creative process!
If you’re a creative you’ll need to watch this twice cos… You’ll see
Are you ready for the truth?
Check out last week's episode with Cassandra Johnson-Bekoe on how new writers should take their time with their projects and not bouncing from agent to agent throughout their career.
Listen on:
Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/0K6ugRFXfgZ4B3jeWEWQTU
Apple podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-your-cinema-podcast/id1712678244
’Welcome to Your Cinema'
Follow us on socials:
Tiktok: @yourcinemafilms
Instagram: @yourcinemafilms
Twitter: @yourcinemafilms
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FunTranscript
00:00 Now everyone's making it in film and TV, but we don't really know how.
00:05 Here we uncover the truth.
00:07 Welcome to the Your Cinema podcast.
00:09 Welcome to the Your Cinema podcast today.
00:15 This is the place where we explore the truth about the film and TV industry
00:21 and we hear it directly from those who are smashing it in their areas.
00:26 Today is extremely special.
00:31 We always have special guests, but I'm super, super, super excited today
00:35 because I believe we've got a mastermind and a genius here today.
00:41 And I don't say it or take it lightly.
00:45 I would say he's a great creative director,
00:50 but he's also an esteemed and critically acclaimed director, writer,
00:55 dare I say pioneer for the work he's completed.
01:00 I'm not gassing, I am speaking the truth.
01:03 I introduce to you Abdu Cice.
01:06 What's going on, bro? How are you?
01:08 I'm good, man. I'm good. I'm good.
01:10 Tired. Tired. Tired.
01:12 It's been a very long, not a long year, but a very jam-packed year.
01:17 So, yeah, it feels good.
01:19 It feels good to finally have things coming out and finally out as well.
01:24 So, yeah, man, I feel good.
01:27 I love that.
01:30 And do you know what? It's definitely like, yeah, it's definitely been a jam-packed year.
01:36 I guess from I'm saying that from the side of watching your output
01:41 and some of the things that we can deduce from what's going on on your socials and that.
01:47 But one of the things that just so excited me was your recent release of Festival of Slaps.
01:56 Because that, like pun intended, it slapped like seriously.
02:02 That thing was like, that was an experience.
02:08 It's the best show I've seen this year, hands down.
02:12 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
02:14 Like, do you know what? I just love, I love our culture.
02:23 And that Festival of Slaps and your work in general,
02:30 there's this one in theme of like elevating the depiction of our culture.
02:38 It's almost like it's like art house, but it's us.
02:42 Yeah. And even like some of the small short projects,
02:47 like I saw like a live music performance on your Vimeo from like years ago.
02:51 Yeah, it was like behind this like translucent screen.
02:54 I was like, what is this? Yeah.
02:58 Yeah, that was a photography project I did called Presence back in 2015, 2016, maybe.
03:07 It feels like 2016, 2017. I can't remember. It was a minute. It was a minute ago.
03:12 Yeah. Yeah, that was that was crazy.
03:16 I love that project. It was actually insane.
03:19 Now looking back, it's like, you know, when you look back at your work, you're like,
03:24 we were like, we were really like bold with what we were trying to create, you know.
03:32 And that boldness, it continues.
03:37 Like, it's like the stuff that I'm used to seeing in other spaces is now here.
03:48 And it's not contrived. It's not compromising. It just fits.
03:53 You know, I mean, I'm like, wow, I didn't I didn't realize that we could do that.
04:00 Yeah. And that's and that's that's the point, really, in it.
04:05 We should already feel. That lack of that.
04:11 That lack of like being present in those spaces is is is wild.
04:16 It's wild if you really deep it. It's like the film industry has been here for how long?
04:21 And we haven't really had like for me, it's like we haven't had people like our mums depicted
04:29 like seen in that way, you know, like typically you see that in.
04:34 Yeah. And it's starting to obviously break out a lot more and we start to see a lot more of that.
04:40 But then in that lies the. Lies the point, you know, like and kind of lies the the reason behind.
04:51 Why, like why I wanted to do something like that, you know, like there lies the reason.
04:57 Is that lack of that lack of hate?
05:01 Don't use the word representation, but that lack of being present in that space.
05:06 Yes. Hundred hundred. I got you. All right.
05:10 So because like for me, this is so groundbreaking and there's like a there's a wave that you think on or create from.
05:19 I just really want to know that from the beginning. And it sounds open ended.
05:24 So, you know, like answer it as as you see fit. But where did your creativity start?
05:31 Oh, where did it start? I would always say it's probably my parents, you know? Yeah.
05:34 I would always say my parents, like my mum, my mum done like done pottery.
05:39 My dad was a sort of illustrator back in like and I say this, they were never they were never doing it at like such like a huge, huge level.
05:46 And it was very much just like for them, it was their sort of passion.
05:50 Like they were doing it for my dad was probably doing it for like news articles here and there back in like Senegal and stuff like that.
05:56 And my mum was making pottery mainly just for herself as well as friends and stuff like that as well.
06:01 So they've they've kind of nurtured us in a way where we're a little bit a lot more open to the arts than, say, people traditionally are, you know, they've given they gave us a lot of freedom.
06:13 But I think I've always been. Yeah, I think it's always like this idea of art and creativity is always kind of been part of my life, like.
06:23 From from, yeah, from early, you know, from like.
06:28 So it's yeah, it's I could never, ever be able to depict when when was the moment I realized, oh, this is what I like doing.
06:37 And I think it's just always been a part of me always, always has.
06:43 Yeah, I love that. I love that. And what I also want to know is like what what projects did you like growing up?
06:52 Because, yeah, like I was saying, there's like a consistent theme of quality and work in a way that I'm used to seeing in other spaces.
07:08 So I'm just curious. Like, yeah. Like what projects did you like growing up?
07:12 Oh, bro, man, like. My friend, my friends always laugh at me, they always kind of say, bro, I do everything you love is like guns, cars, violence, like sci fi, like all of this stuff.
07:24 And it's just like that, like being able to be able to escape that sort of escapism of being able to like live in a world for like an hour and a half or whatever in a TV show.
07:37 So for me, I loved I was a huge I'm still a huge fan of cartoons and stuff like that.
07:42 Like Japanese anime is like one of my like biggest, biggest sort of key drivers.
07:51 Again, I remember my brother playing me. It's like this Japanese anime, which is like quite hardcore called Ninja Scroll.
07:58 And I just remember being like, what the f*** is this? Like what?
08:02 Like, you know, you're used to watching daytime TV and you're like, my God, like there's blood.
08:07 What the hell? Like what's going on? But and again, it's just it's dynamic.
08:12 It's exciting. It's like and at its core are some real like some real deep stories, you know, and it's very similar to why people probably obsessed with comics.
08:22 Like this and there's some real deep stories within that, but then told in this sort of an exciting way that you can follow, that you can follow.
08:32 And then when it came to like when you can't comes to like film, like my parents didn't have a lot.
08:39 So we never really we only ever had like a certain number of tapes, like a VCR player with me.
08:45 I have a number of tapes and my auntie would would record Sky. We didn't have Sky.
08:50 We only had like the three or four channels. And then it was, you know what I mean?
08:54 Like I remember that being the fifth one coming and being like, oh, there's another channel.
08:59 Oh, my God. You want to see? Do you know what I mean?
09:02 And then my auntie and my friends all had like cable and Sky and stuff like that.
09:06 So a lot of the time it would be and I never had a games console or anything like that.
09:12 Everything came quite late for me and my brother and my other siblings.
09:17 We so, for instance, my auntie, we will record like Cartoon Network and and all these sort of films and shows.
09:25 And I literally have to play it on repeat, like rewind the tape, play on repeat, watch it as if I have I have those things in it.
09:32 And then and then once we start getting once I start buying certain tapes and VHS sort of tapes,
09:41 it would be like, oh, snap, like suddenly we've got I remember I remember the first time I got Toy Story.
09:48 Do you know what I mean? I think I remember that being like a big day for me.
09:52 Like I remember that being like a massive day being like, oh, my God, I've got something.
09:56 But and then obviously, as me and my brother got older, we started to just then buy our own stuff.
10:01 So I remember just getting the two the two films I grew up watching.
10:06 Yeah. Well, three really or two is like The Matrix that completely blew me and my brother's mind.
10:12 Like we were just like we know that we know that film line by line.
10:17 Like when people are going to say something, when they're going to do something, which I reenact that in our living room.
10:23 Do you know what I mean? Like you jump from sofa to sofa trying to do you'd call it The Matrix.
10:28 And you start doing the madness and all of this. And then I remember seeing that.
10:32 And then we got fast and we got fast and furious.
10:36 So it might have been too fast, too furious maybe. I remember just running those on repeat consistently.
10:42 That's all like like there was nothing else for me to go watch.
10:46 I'll go to my friend's house and I'll end up like you always have that one friend or a few friends that have a games console or Sky.
10:51 You're supposed to be playing. But I'm there like just watching like, oh, wait, what else can we watch?
10:57 What else can we watch? What kind of genres are there?
11:00 Do you know what I mean? Like you grow up on that. And then, yeah, man, you like a lot of the time it was it was that like those two for me was just like mind blowing.
11:11 It was like and obviously being that classic boy, like being a classic boy, like cars, fighting, guns, violence, mad stunts.
11:20 You're like, oh, my God, this is blowing my mind.
11:23 And then so for me, like I would say like the obsession started there as well as like adverts.
11:28 Obviously, I'm watching TV trying to catch thing and then like I'm seeing like the latest Nike commercial come out in the cage.
11:35 You got Edgar Davids, you got Ronaldo, you got all these people, you got Thierry Henry, you got all the best players playing football in a mad cinematic way.
11:43 Like usually you watch football from from afar. But this is the first time you're seeing football up close.
11:48 So you're just you're actually in the game is this how it feels. And obviously playing football when you're younger, like these people are like your heroes.
11:56 You're seeing them on the thing and you're trying to mimic what they're doing and you're trying to mimic the moves they're doing on the adverts.
12:00 Do you know what I mean? So you're like, oh, I'm going to bounce the ball off the wall and do that.
12:05 So you start as a kid, you're just you're just you're just taking this all in.
12:09 But you're also just like you're taking what someone else has imagined and bringing it into your imagination and then bringing that to life.
12:16 So for me, it was like those things there were just like massive to me, like hugely influential and somehow always still quite present.
12:25 And in my mind somehow hasn't been topped since.
12:29 That's like early 90s. So like that's like 90s, noughties that you're like talking about.
12:35 Like Matrix came out in 1999. After 99, like 1999, like some of the maddest films came out and it's never been the same since.
12:43 Like we haven't been able to kind of like get back to how those films felt, if that makes sense.
12:50 Yes. And the Matrix just changed everything, man.
12:53 Like in terms of like story, story matched with action and spectacle.
13:00 It's like that they they broke they they broke film forever.
13:07 I mean, like I just don't. And then after that, everyone mimics. Do you know what I mean?
13:10 There was obviously certain techniques that were still there that you're watching.
13:15 I remember there's like a P Diddy music video and one of the things and they do the bullet time.
13:18 Is that No Way Out? Something like that. There's like a bullet time thing there and you're seeing that.
13:22 And they're like, yeah, music videos like being again, I didn't.
13:26 Obviously, I'm going to my I'm going to like my friend's house, seeing MTV Bass and then seeing how that world is.
13:33 And I'm like, oh my God, all I have is Top of the Pops.
13:37 You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I'm waiting for like someone sick to come on.
13:43 Oh, yeah, man. For me, it was like very much within my sort of the lack of having.
13:48 Yes. Kind of being the thing that fueled and still fuels a lot of like sort of decisions of like, oh, man, we're not.
13:56 I don't see this. I don't have this. Therefore, I'm going to put it in there.
14:01 Man, do you know what this is making so much sense now? Right.
14:08 And like and it's clear that that passion is still there.
14:13 Like even just hearing you talk about these things that we've all grown up with and, you know, they've impacted us and influenced us in different ways.
14:23 But it sounds like those things gripped you. Yeah. And I've held, you know what I mean?
14:31 Yeah, they're still there. I love that. I love. Yeah, man. Yeah.
14:36 Yeah. That's where that the kind of this I would say like this obsession or chasing a certain feeling has always come from.
14:46 I feel like it's always this sort of feeling I want to invoke in myself, but also want to invoke in others, you know, and just bringing stuff with meaning.
14:57 I don't know if you remember the old sort of like I remember the sort of old Guinness adverts.
15:02 Yes. Yep. Yep. Yep. Follows top follows the swim.
15:07 The swimmer surfing one in it and the surfing one as well. Swimmer surfing. And you're like, right.
15:13 I look at that now and I'm like, that could have been in itself a film. Do you know what I mean?
15:16 It's like it was a storytelling at its finest in its most sort of expressive way.
15:23 You know, so for me as a young as someone that's young, that can't quite understand narrative as well as I do now as an adult.
15:32 Yeah. That's what pulled me in and then pulled me closer to those stories, you know.
15:37 I love that. I love that. So like looking at your body of work so far and I know you're still at the early parts of your career, but you've done you've done a lot.
15:47 I would say what I want to know, right.
15:52 Like for for everyone as well, like what your trajectory has been. So like, did you study? Did you go to film school? Like all of this stuff?
16:02 No, I never went to film school, you know, like not in the traditional sense at all.
16:06 I'd say like a lot of my film school has come from experience of trial and error, observation and getting advice and discussions.
16:17 You know, I studied architecture. I studied architecture. So like for me, not that for a long time, only probably even after just after Serious Things is when I probably consider myself a filmmaker.
16:30 Before that, it was something that I just wanted to do. I tend to follow those sort of again, that feeling of like, what do I want to express and how I studied architecture and then realise that, oh, you know what?
16:42 Like I don't I don't want to spend the next seven years studying.
16:50 And then by the time I've nearly hit my 30s is when I'm actually starting my career, like actually in the industry.
16:58 Even though you do experience between that and you can kind of claim you can't claim yourself as an architect.
17:03 But even then, even within architecture, it's then like, all right, you've got this young person.
17:09 Are you really going to trust them with designing your building? That's got us lost there for like.
17:16 A good over plus 50 years.
17:19 And then for me, like in architecture, I think architecture was like a really amazing foundation because we learn a lot about every aspect of design, like every aspect of design thinking from how your building looks, from your concept to your idea to your execution.
17:40 There's always a through line and that through line has to reflect in the building you create, in the furniture that you put in there, in the materials that you use to even how you present, like how you're presenting and you're doing your pitches that has to reflect in that.
17:57 So there's this consistent through line, consistent concept that has to flow throughout everything.
18:03 So for me, I think that built the most perfect foundation creatively. And the first year was really like more.
18:10 It was more geared towards sort of like it felt more like an art class, but with design thinking.
18:17 Then, yeah, I got to a point where I was just like, you know what I love? I realized I love doing loads of things.
18:21 There's not one thing I love doing. Yeah. And architecture done that.
18:25 And then, but then starting to look at the actual career, actually looking at what it's like down the line.
18:31 I always say to people, if you're in an industry and you can't see anyone that you want to be like, see if the industry is not necessarily, that the roles are not, there's not the role that you want.
18:43 And therefore you either make your make your role, the thing that you want or about switching industry and seeing if there's something else that someone that you can see, because if you can see it, you can believe it and you can do it.
18:55 Right. So in architecture, I saw I looked and again, I probably would probably still go back into architecture at some point.
19:02 But for me, it was like I felt like I had during that first three years had almost done a creative disservice to myself.
19:13 And ever since then, I've been trying to give back to myself, you know, so. Yeah.
19:18 It's the journey's been insane. Like so from doing architecture, understanding, hold on.
19:26 What I'm really good at is design thinking. Yeah. And therefore, like I can kind of go into any thing and apply that.
19:33 So if I'm interested in in design or if I'm interested in branding or I'm interested in film or art, I can kind of apply that.
19:41 So I went from like doing architecture, then literally in the summer of that year, I graduate and do it, making a jewelry collection because I just felt like I want to make something and then doing jewelry collection and creating a film around that and a campaign around that.
19:57 And then landing myself into sort of advertising where it was like, man, I get to I get to play in this playground.
20:05 I get to play in that playground. I get to do film storytelling. I get to do branding.
20:10 I get to do innovation. I get to do tech. I get to do all of these things that I know and love and kind of like pair that together to make something, you know.
20:20 So, yeah, it kind of went from there and then obviously transitioned from there into film.
20:26 So, yeah, man, it's been it's been it's been an amazing journey, man. It's been an amazing journey.
20:31 I wouldn't I wouldn't take it back for anything. I love that. And and it's so it's so true and interesting how much you have said design so far, because one of the things that struck me about.
20:48 And we'll talk about Festival of Slaps, but just even the rollout of it is just like the consistency in the design, like the boards, the actual poster and the variations on the poster.
21:03 And even in the film, some of the shots are like so specific. They're on for like half a second.
21:11 Yeah. Like you see the hand in the woman's eyeball. You see this, the beads of sweat.
21:18 And it's like a lot of people would have just been like, listen, the budget don't go that far.
21:24 It's not it's not that deep. We get it. It's been slapped. Do you know what I mean?
21:29 But I'm like, wait, you went to those lengths and I've seen it in some of your other shorts as well. Yeah. Like, oh, this is a thing for you.
21:40 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I just wanted to commend you and give you your flowers because that attention to detail hasn't gone unnoticed.
21:49 No, I think you man. I have to think I have to thank the team as well for like it's like for putting up with putting up with me and that sort of either crazy vision or just like ambition as well.
22:01 It's it's it's not an easy road to take, you know, like when you're trying to.
22:07 When when you're trying to really kind of like go all out, you know, it's not it's not easy.
22:11 And I think film is a is a is an art of restraint and knowing where to where to push and where to pull, you know, and where to where to be still and where to kind of go all out, you know.
22:25 So, yeah, man, the design, I think I think personally, like everything's design, like writing is design and like music.
22:35 I had this I had a debate with one of my producers about a name on what project it was in this project on another project where I was just trying to work with a composer.
22:45 And I was like. With like music is design and she's like, no, it's not like you have to win.
22:52 I'm like, no, like you start off with a concept. You do some research and development, you land on an idea, then you go do an execution.
23:01 You do some research and development in there. You land on the execution and then it's iteration until you land on something that like gives a function.
23:10 There's a function to the to the art. I mean, everything we're doing is a function to it.
23:14 So it has to serve something, be it giving you a feeling or be it giving conveying an emotion or a certain plot point.
23:24 Everything in the way is kind of like design thinking is whether you want to see it that way, whether you understand it that way.
23:31 And so, yes, everything for me is like.
23:36 Art and design are very separate. And because art you're trying, you're doing it to express something.
23:46 Design is taking that expression and giving it function. Do you know what I mean?
23:50 So it's like it's about pairing those two a lot of the time, you know?
23:54 Yeah. Wow. Wow. All right. So serious things like that.
24:01 That's a classic. It's widely regarded, you know, featured at London Film Festival, Rain Dance, Biffa nominated, winning at the Shinies, you know, featured at Tate.
24:13 I remember I was I was at Somerset House like a year or two ago, just randomly.
24:17 And I was waiting in a lobby for someone. Yeah, it was just playing on the wall.
24:25 I was I only found out, I think I think I got an email about that, like the places that that's gone to is.
24:32 Yeah, we always say that, especially the people I worked with were just like, it's the gift that keeps on giving.
24:39 I mean, it's really that project that like. Honestly, is like.
24:45 And we always we always we always discuss this because it's like how how and I'm just like, to be honest, I think it's because it just came from a pure place.
24:53 You know, like we made something for ourselves. So, for instance, where it where it goes is exciting.
25:00 But I think for me, the main thing is the fact that I made that with.
25:05 Like people that I call friends and people that I now call friends, do you know what I mean?
25:09 We made that I was a real sort of like. Offering from us as a community, you know, like people I went to from people I went to school with, that people that I went to uni with, to people that I now work with.
25:21 Like it was a real sort of like. Yeah, it was a real coming together of like all of us, you know, and I think I think it just came from such a pure place that I just I don't know whether other people see that in the work or whether it just, I don't know, created this sort of energy around it that you felt like, you know, like we're not being preachy here.
25:44 We're just kind of like expanding on an observation, you know. And. So, yeah. So for me, the serious things, man, it's like, yeah, that's that's.
25:56 And even even and sometimes when I'm even lost in a project, I have to revisit what it was for me that I felt on certain things in that certain shots or certain stuff that I'm just like, what made me feel?
26:11 What was it I was looking for in this moment, you know, and just kind of reconnecting to that.
26:19 Do you know what? Yeah. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. As you're speaking, so many things make make so much sense. Right. Because I was watching it the other day and I was like.
26:32 There was a bit, I guess. So with me, right. I don't cry a lot at stuff, but like I'll cry inside. I'll feel like, oh, my days. That is deep.
26:49 And there was a bit it's that part where they start smiling. Right. Yeah. And then they stop smiling.
27:00 And I was like. Yeah, I'm just thinking about it now. It's deep. It's mad. When you watch it, do you feel part of you is seen?
27:11 Yeah. But I feel like like so there's two things. Right. 100 percent do like Fia Gayage does this excellently in her work as well. Right.
27:24 I feel like you and her capture like take our culture and community and capture it in a way that takes me back.
27:36 This is me personally. Right. Yeah. Takes me back to a place. And I think that's probably why I resonated with it.
27:44 But I think one of the overriding feelings that I had from it was like this.
27:51 Like, I don't know if the word is disappointment, but it was really like, man.
27:59 Like, no, this is the feeling. That's such a shame. That's such a shame because, you know, like, like.
28:10 Because just to just to say that, like, because I think when I think when it's interesting, because we've and big up Fia as well,
28:21 like because another fellow, I think it's something in the water in South London. I don't know what it is.
28:27 But I mean, it's I'm in the water with us creatives from South London because it's like everyone's a storm in the gates and just literally just like we're here to stay sort of vibe.
28:36 You know, like everyone's just like, you know, we ain't leaving. I think for me, for me, with Serious Things, what's what's really interesting,
28:44 I think I think what we try to capture is like how is how is boys we we really try to we really try to grow up.
28:55 We truly try to grow up at a very early age. And it's interesting because the film, a lot of people talk about film and sometimes the people are like, oh, yeah, black masculinity.
29:05 And I'm just like, oh, it's just masculinity in general. It's just it's interesting.
29:11 Like there's a lot of and I remember this one of one one guy I was working with. He just said, yeah, man, it's a shame how we have to grow.
29:17 Like, it's a shame that it's a shame that as kids, you have to almost try to grow up too quickly.
29:26 And it's a shame that like the stuff that within within that sort of mentality of sort of masculinity that we end up later on trying to chase our youth.
29:39 Do you know what I mean? Like and it was all because and for me, it's just like all because of what?
29:44 Like because of it trying to be accepted or or wanting to be accepted or whether it was trying to protect ourselves from.
29:57 Because because because of the way the world is, it hardens, hardens us specifically from our community that we have to almost put on a brave face.
30:07 So every time we walk out the door, you know, we have to. Yeah, we have to take on a lot.
30:14 And therefore that is almost like a first, like how we. Like how we come across is basically our sort of first line of defense.
30:27 Do you know what I mean? So it's like not feeling like you can be being a man is like not feeling like you can be vulnerable,
30:33 not feeling like feeling like that. This is this is me showing a sign of strength.
30:38 But I'm huge on like habits like all my work kind of like expresses like a habit and a contradiction,
30:45 the habits and contradictions in life. And for me, it was like it's ironic.
30:49 I love where how I kind of pick an idea is based on the irony a lot of the time.
30:54 And I was like, quite ironic that as men, we feel like a sign by showing emotion is a sign of weakness.
31:03 But actually, really and truly not being able to show emotion is a weakness.
31:09 I mean, that is actually the true weakness, really. So I find it. There's an irony there, you know.
31:15 Yeah. Hundred. Oh, man, I love it. I love it. I love it.
31:21 So with with Festival of Slaps now, I want to understand like your design process.
31:31 So you like beautifully broke down like, look, I take a concept. I do this. I do this.
31:39 I do that. I want to know what your process was for like Festival of Slaps because it's so specific.
31:46 Yeah. But you made it universally understandable. And you know what? It's funny, right?
31:52 I was I was actually watching it with my aunt. So I was like, look, you have to see this.
31:57 You have to see this. And she was laughing and loved it. Amazing. And then she asked me a question.
32:03 She said, do you think like black white people would understand that and would see it with the same comedy?
32:11 Yeah. And I said, you know what? I feel like they would, because the way it's been done, like there's a universal theme of of of discipline.
32:23 But just the story itself. You get it like you understand why it's it's done and you're not confusing it with abuse.
32:34 Yeah. Even if you don't decide to beat your kids in the same way that we've good fellows.
32:39 We're not Italian, but we understand family. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of my work is always about holding up a mirror.
32:46 Right. And it's like there's always a perception versus a reality thing.
32:53 And I always find it interesting. I almost like I love doing these sort of things that like.
32:59 I think especially in festival slaps, I'll go into the process in a second.
33:03 But for me, it's like we use the stereotype to demystify it.
33:08 For me, like because it's bullshit, like how people perceive black mothers, black women, us.
33:18 It's all bullshit. And so for me, it's like I'm going to show you yourself and then I'm going to I'm going to show you how you think.
33:28 And then I'm going to leave you with that. So it's like, for instance, in Serious Things, we start off with mayhem and you're just assuming the worst.
33:37 And then you then realise, oh, wait, hold on. This is just about masculinity.
33:41 This is about these boys. And I'm going to show you I'm going to show you them.
33:44 I'm really going to show you that there's there's there's boys behind these sort of cold stairs, you know.
33:52 And festival slaps, it was the same thing for me. It was like. I wanted to be able to like my like, for instance, it's very like my mum is very much misunderstood a lot of the time.
34:03 But then if you really know my mum, it's like she's the most loving, caring person.
34:07 And it's like whoever gets to know my mum loves her. Like she's one of those sort of people that like even if I've bumped into people that know my mum and they're like, oh, my God, your mum.
34:17 And it's like pure joy, pure joy comes from that right now. For me, it was like taking.
34:25 And when I say semi autobiographic, what I mean by that is like.
34:30 I at one point I was choking. I was I was eating food. I was choking.
34:36 I eat fast. I eat exceptionally fast. And I think it's because I always want to make sure I eat my dinner and watch what was on TV.
34:43 Do you know what I mean? So me, my family, all kind of like that. We all eat really fast.
34:47 My mum always used to say, like, yo, all you do is cut, swallow, cut, swallow, chew your food, chew your food.
34:54 And then me being young and thinking I know better, I'm just like, what do you know?
34:59 And then and then the inevitable happens. I choke. And then the thing that you would either run away from for your mum disciplining you or whatever was the one thing that saved my life.
35:09 So it was just like now looking at it when I'm older, I'm like, oh, there's an irony there.
35:13 It's such an irony there because this is the perception.
35:17 These are the sort of habits and contradictions as us and as people, as Western society, how we look upon our culture and the people and people from our culture.
35:27 You know, so it's like, how can I take those things and create a narrative that takes that stereotype, demystifies it and leaves you really seeing this this family, this culture in its true life?
35:40 So so for me, it's like, yeah, you see, you're faced with the stereotype to begin with.
35:48 Then it's gone, then it's gone. And then the tone changes. Like then you suddenly realise all the other times that you thought she was going to slap him or beat him.
35:59 He was met with nothing. He's made everything else but that. Do you know what I mean?
36:03 So it's like and what she was doing and what we always confuse, what we confuse with, like passion and love is like that this person, this mum goes so far to prevent her son falling from grace.
36:18 But all the son wants to do is grow up and and leave that.
36:22 So what you have is like an immovable object being a mother's love or a parent's love and an unstoppable force, which is you going into adolescence.
36:32 And it's like the film is that clash between those two things, which we can all we can all understand.
36:37 We all when we're younger, all we want to do is grow up and all our parents want us to do is stay young and be be their kids.
36:43 So it's like, yeah, it's just funny how how certain audience perceive it, like audiences and people from different backgrounds that are not, say, per se, European.
37:00 See it and they see the like, especially when the twist happens, they see the love, the joy, they see themselves, they see how their family are.
37:09 Like it's very rare that you see like a black family sitting in a five star restaurant cracking joke.
37:15 I mean, like cracking joke with one another, teasing each other, the parents teasing the kid, the kid teasing the mother.
37:20 You really ever see that. So for me, it was all about leading to that point.
37:26 But to touch on the sort of process for me, it's like I'm saying, I find the concept and irony something that I find interesting,
37:34 something that I feel like I I want to be I want to say or be said.
37:40 So I kind of have a concept there. And then I move on to like an idea and the idea being kind of like what the story is, the characters, everything like that.
37:51 And how those things flow throughout. And then from that point on, it's it's words on the page.
37:59 I try this one. I try to not jump into visuals. I start with words on the page first. Got that right.
38:05 Then as you're writing, you're coming up, you're thinking of visuals anyway when you're writing.
38:09 So the visual part for me is like the easiest bit. It's the easiest bit.
38:14 It's the bit I spend I spend time on. But it's not the thing that I'm worried about.
38:19 It's making sure that the idea, the core, the core of the story is as solid as it can be, because that's the thing I'm going to use to inform everything else.
38:30 So because I have that sort of idea, I'm then looking at like, OK, cool, this concept or idea, how does that flow through everything?
38:38 So if I'm like, OK, cool, I want to lean into the stereotype and then demystify it.
38:43 That means I'm misleading this audience. So everything has to be something that misleads the audience.
38:48 So if the posters, for instance, we talk about the posters, the posters feel like almost like horror.
38:54 Do you know what I mean? So it's like the storytelling starts from the first instance that someone sees the film and the way the person sees the film might be the poster.
39:03 It might be a title. It might be the log line. Do you know what I mean?
39:07 From that very moment, that's where the story starts. And then where it ends is how you then where you see it in the world or how you then think.
39:15 So like you have the film, which I see as being like the middle core chunk of it.
39:19 And it's like, how do I lead people into that? And then how do I take them out? And how does that story continue?
39:26 So for me, it's like every every stage it has to fit that if it doesn't fit that, then it's not worth really pursuing or doing.
39:34 So the film does that. And then when it comes to like the trailers or the cut downs, they do that.
39:42 And then and then posters, everything like language that you use is informed by that.
39:50 So I would say that's me being an architect of my own project, ironically.
39:54 But like it has to everything has to make sense and ladder up.
39:58 If not, you find yourself. You find yourself kind of lost a lot of the time.
40:05 It's like it's about returning back to the essence of what you want to communicate in this film.
40:11 You know what? Thank you so much for that branding masterclass.
40:15 What that was. Yeah, that it just makes so much sense.
40:22 It makes so much sense now because one of my one of the things I was going to ask you was about that horror feel,
40:31 because there's two there's three specific places that you see it right before you even watch the film and and during.
40:40 Right. Yeah. The poster, which you touched on the music like the score is spot on on a different level.
40:52 And I saw I saw Rahim Bokhari was part of that. He's a genius as well.
40:56 Yeah. And then also that that wind effect, like those three things scream horror at me.
41:09 And the way you've used them, just breaking down like your whole concept and ideation process.
41:15 I'm like. It makes sense. How often do you see like a great piece of work and the campaign is a few trailer posts on Insta and in the films out.
41:28 And it's like, oh, there's so much more you can actually do if you think about it.
41:33 Yeah. No, 100 percent. That's why I kind of say like for me, my sort of goal is always how does the film go beyond the screen?
41:42 How does the film continue? Like what other places can the film live on?
41:46 Like you spend in film we spend like we have one of the one of the one of the industries we have,
41:52 like a massive amount of manpower for a short period of time, like two or three days.
41:58 Bang. So much money is spent on making this one thing that last 10, 20 minutes or even like an hour, two hour, three hours.
42:04 And then more often than not, the film is put out.
42:08 And then because by that time that the creator is tired, they've seen the film a million times.
42:13 And then it's like, let's just get this out. I want to move on to the next thing.
42:16 Whereas for me, I'm just like, what a shame for all the people, for yourself, as well as your past self that first came up with the idea.
42:24 And your past self that went through the hell and fire to get it to this point,
42:28 as well as for the team that put in countless amount of hours for it to just be a simple sort of post, you know, like I think,
42:37 I think I think a lot of the great stories go beyond the screen.
42:41 When I talk about The Matrix, the reason I say it goes beyond the screen is because it became a way of thinking about society
42:52 where our place in society, it became a visual style that everyone mimicked.
42:58 It became this sort of thing, like it became a culture, became fashion, like during that time, leather coats and all the, man, it was just sick.
43:06 Do you know what I mean? It's like...
43:07 - The earphone, the 7110.
43:09 - Everything. And to this day, a lot of what has happened in The Matrix is pretty much kind of what our reality is now.
43:15 Like for me, that is a perfect example of a film and a story going beyond the screen,
43:21 because that's what stories are. Stories should be able to live here, there and everywhere.
43:26 A great example of that. It's like Serious Things for me kind of taught me that as well.
43:30 It was like it was a story that went beyond the screen.
43:33 We taught it in schools. We had discussions in schools. It became a subject matter in the school.
43:40 We played it on national prison radio to 90,000 prisoners.
43:44 And that wasn't even the visuals. That's just the audio.
43:47 They literally took the audio and played that in prison. And we were just like, I didn't even think it could be that.
43:53 Like, do you know what I mean? I didn't think it could be that.
43:57 It plays in galleries. So the last place I felt that I got hit up for it was that it played at the National Gallery in DC.
44:08 And I went on Google Maps, went to go look at where this place was. And the White House is like right next to there.
44:14 So I'm just like to the mandem. I'm like, yo, can you believe your face is up on the screen and next to the White House?
44:19 Like, isn't that mad to you? Isn't that crazy that like how far like a simple idea or story can go when it's created from a pure place?
44:28 You know, like so for me, it's like. That's where my brand in mind and everything else.
44:33 And like my creative mind is exciting because it means that, oh, I can continue to create.
44:40 It doesn't mean that the film is the end product. There's other places it could live.
44:44 And you will see later on with Festival Slaps in the sort of coming weeks, you'll see how we've kind of.
44:52 We've got something else that we're going to drop, which kind of kind of like exemplifies that, you know.
44:57 So, yeah, I love that. Yeah, I love it. I love that.
45:04 And so like short films aside, you've been doing TV as well. So, yeah, let's not forget that.
45:12 Including like Gangs of London and also Grime Kids, like Grime Kids in particular,
45:19 because I know like you specifically directed an episode, which is huge, especially for that period of time in our culture.
45:28 What can we expect from the show?
45:33 Oh, man, it's expectation. I think it's very much like a love letter to that time and to us and who we were back then, you know.
45:48 I think expect two things.
45:51 Like I always say, like when I first came on the project, I was like, what are the two things I want people to take away from it?
45:57 I want the people that lived it to be like, fuck me.
46:03 I can't be like, fuck me, I was there for that.
46:06 And then for people that didn't live it to be like, fuck me, I wish I was there for that.
46:10 Do you know what I mean? So it's like really.
46:15 Because it's it's it was a magical time like.
46:19 And people forget that like.
46:26 People forget that. OK, cool. There's only there's only one Stormzy, there's only one Skepta, there's only there's only one Wiley, one Dizzy Rascal.
46:34 And those icons have their own right to tell their own story in the way they wanted to tell it, stuff like that.
46:41 But I always was interested in it because it wasn't about it wasn't it was about the many, not the few.
46:47 Really, I think what's really interesting about it was about the people that surrounded those people,
46:52 you know, the people that that kept the culture, the other people that kept the culture alive,
46:58 be it the kids that were bootlegging tapes and and recording it off of off of radio,
47:04 selling it to their friends, to the people, the unnamed pirate radio stations that came and went,
47:11 the people that canonised it through the photography that they took.
47:16 And these are these are people that were just living it, not people that have made, say, per se, careers off of it.
47:21 It's the culture that I think it's the culture that kept the genre alive in those moments and and helped.
47:28 And helped, yeah, helped keep it alive.
47:32 You know, I think for me, that's what makes the show so special, is that like for me personally,
47:40 I was able to canonise my childhood, similar to the fact that with Festival Slaps, I'm able to canonise my my family life, my parents.
47:51 Similar to the serious things I'm able to canonise my sort of young to adolescence, you know, like.
48:00 So for me, that's I think that those sort of the sort of take outs, like be prepared to like laugh, to cry,
48:06 be prepared to like bounce off your seat and feel seen.
48:11 And expect to see that time period told in all its glory, you know, that it should, that it deserves to be.
48:24 Man, well, we're looking forward, looking forward to it.
48:28 And congratulations for, you know, all of the success being featured at, you know, London Film Festival with two projects, actually.
48:39 Yeah, they literally screened like the day back to back.
48:43 So it was like Friday, we screened Crime Kids one episode one to two.
48:48 The next day we screened Festival Slaps.
48:52 It was like it was it's been it's been a great that's I'm saying it's been a busy, that's why I'm tired because it's like you're balancing.
48:59 You're kind of like in the middle of balancing the two, two versions of yourself, like the sort of director for hire that's come on a TV show and then write a director side of you that is the creative, the person that has his own ideas and his own ways of like expressing himself.
49:16 And it's like showing how I apply that to other people's projects and work well with others.
49:22 How do I function as a as the as the lead of my own sort of thing, you know, like not having anyone to kind of like fall back on is like, I know this is like this is the vision I've come up with.
49:36 And now I have to stand by it.
49:40 Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So I think it's an exciting time.
49:44 It was really good. It was really good. And they literally like it's the same month as my birthday.
49:48 It was like everything, everything this everything this last month has just been been amazing.
49:53 It's been amazing. I love it. I love it. God bless you, man.
49:57 Well, listen, this has been an amazing episode.
50:01 I've learnt I have. Yeah, understood a lot more about design and yeah, got to really just, you know, celebrate and understand you, which I think I think is so key for so many like creatives like your peers and also the generation coming up next, because you've really you've you've.
50:26 I believe you have opened the door that we didn't realise was staring us in the face.
50:35 If anyone just really look like you want to go through it.
50:41 Yeah. So now, 100 percent, man, it's about if you if you're doing storytelling to take control of life for me, if it's also my phone's ringing.
50:51 If you're doing a if you're if you come into filmmaking to tell a story, then really take control of that narrative, you know, like the storytelling doesn't end on the page.
51:04 It doesn't end within the film. It's about how do you want people to see the project, perceive the project like.
51:14 Like we perceive art as art once it's hung on the wall and in a gallery. It's about seeing you like.
51:21 And the story starts from when you enter the gallery, you know, and then the art piece is the core foundation of that.
51:26 So it's about seeing your work in a similar way, you know, your stories in a similar way and making sure that like, yeah, man, that you enjoy every aspect of filmmaking.
51:38 It's filmmaking isn't just making the film, you know, you there's a there's a lot to play with and a lot to have fun with.
51:47 And it's about how how far do you want to push it? How much fun do you want to have?
51:53 You know, how much does your project do you feel like your project deserves?
52:00 And I think it's about really thinking about that.
52:03 Wow. I hope everyone took notes because this is something you're going to have to come back to, I think, when you're doing ideation for your next project.
52:14 Abdu, it's been a pleasure. Thank you, bro. Thank you. Thank you, man.
52:18 Thank you, man.