Fitbaw Talk: What could the Euro 2023 Scotland Squad look like?
Martyn is joined by Barry Anderson and John Greechan to predict the players that could be joining Steve Clarke in Germany.
Category
🥇
SportsTranscript
00:00 Hello and welcome to National World Fitba Talk, your nan's favourite football podcast
00:11 Ken. It's a show where we break down the latest news and results from the Scottish Premiership
00:15 and around the SPFL. I'm your host Martin Simpson, joined by my colleagues from Edinburgh
00:20 Evening News, Barry Anderson and John Greekin. This week's episode is going to be a special
00:25 where we look at who we think will make the 20 free man squad for Scotland travelling
00:30 to the Euro 2024 finals in Germany next summer. So guys, I think we'll go through this quite
00:36 simply. I think we'll just start off at goalkeepers, work our way up from there. And the goalkeeper
00:42 one is quite an interesting situation. We'll come to you first Barry because there's quite
00:48 a heavy hearts perspective on this. I think Angus Gunn is going to be nailed on to go
00:55 and then it comes down to Craig Gordon, who obviously is working his way back from serious
01:00 fitness issues and will be 41 years old when the tournament comes around. And then we've
01:05 got Xander Clarke, Liam Kelly and Robbie McCrory. Assuming that Steve Clarke takes three goalkeepers,
01:13 which three keepers do you expect him to take? I expect him to take Angus Gunn, Craig Gordon
01:20 and Xander Clarke. Which I think might be slightly harsh on Liam Kelly because I think
01:25 Liam Kelly is a very good keeper. But just purely on pecking order, Craig Gordon was
01:30 Scotland number one until he got injured so you have to think that he has a good chance
01:34 of working his way back into the squad fitness permitting. Angus Gunn is clearly the number
01:38 one at the moment and has been throughout the qualifying campaign until he picked up
01:41 an injury last month. And Steve Clarke has made it clear that he ranks Xander Clarke
01:47 higher in the pecking order than Liam Kelly at the moment. So I think that seems to be
01:52 your three goalkeepers for the Euros. As things stand at the moment, obviously there's a long
01:55 way to go between now and next May until the squad is named. But at the moment I would say
01:59 yeah that's your three. Any disagreement on those three John? Certainly not from me.
02:05 No, I don't think so. Assuming fitness isn't an issue, the choice of your number three
02:11 goalkeeper isn't the biggest thing on earth. It's not something to get argued about. You
02:15 pick the guy that you like, knowing that he's almost certainly not going to get a minute
02:19 of game time. It takes us probably into the wider debate
02:25 of who's going to be what number in terms of that one, two, three. Like you said, Craig
02:30 Gordon was number one before the injury. Angus Gunn has been number one since. I think we
02:36 could probably all agree Xander Clarke will be third choice. But then that depends. Is
02:42 Craig Gordon just going to be handed that heart start and jersey back once he's fit,
02:47 Larry? I don't think it's as clear cut as that.
02:52 I think it depends on what kind of level can he get back to after a year out, already being
02:58 40 years old and a double leg break. Nobody would write him off. Absolutely you couldn't
03:02 say this will be Craig just trying to wind down. He's not got that in him. It wouldn't
03:08 surprise me if he becomes hearts number one again, put it that way. I think the difficulty
03:12 for Steve Clarke, now Steve Clarke's not stupid. So let's be brutally honest about it. From
03:18 this moment on, Angus Gunn will have a longer international career than Craig Gordon will.
03:24 So if you're Steve Clarke, even if you get to the point where you think Craig Gordon
03:30 is maybe edging Angus Gunn a little bit here and he's maybe just a slight favourite to
03:33 be the number one, do you drop Angus Gunn in favour of Craig Gordon, knowing that at
03:38 some point in a year's time, two years time, three years time, you're going to have to
03:41 go back to Angus Gunn and say I want you to be my number one again?
03:44 That's a really good point. I also think if Craig Gordon gets back to his form, he's a
03:48 better goalkeeper than Angus Gunn. They're brilliant considerations and important considerations,
03:56 but I still come back to pick your best goalie. Just pick your best goalie in the game that
04:01 you've got. We see it at club level so often, don't we? A goalie gets in and the manager
04:06 will say "oh he's not done anything wrong, so I'm not dropping him". If your better goalie
04:11 is sitting on the bench and fit now, or back from suspension, put him back in. You wouldn't
04:15 do it with your strikers. "Oh he's not done anything wrong". You put your best player
04:18 in.
04:19 I'm with you guys on that. I think Craig Gordon at his best is a better goalkeeper than Angus
04:24 Gunn. I'm tending to agree with John there. If he gets back into the Hearts team, maybe
04:32 say we're looking around about late next month, early January, and he is back to what he was
04:39 like before that double leg break, then I would be very inclined to have him start in
04:44 the first match of the Euros.
04:46 Let's move on to defenders. Things become a little more tricky, picking the squad in
04:51 this order. We need to consider, I think we know he's going to take three goalkeepers,
04:56 so how many defenders is he going to take? I always picture it as taking two strong start
05:02 in 11s, and that leaves you with an extra 21, 22 and so forth.
05:13 In terms of defence, we know the guys that are definitely going to go, Andy Robertson
05:18 is going to be there, Kieran Tierney is going to be there, Aaron Hickey is going to be there,
05:22 Nathan Paterson is going to be there. That covers our full backs. In terms of centre-backs,
05:26 I think Hendry, McKenna and Porteous are all nailed on. That leaves a few to choose from.
05:34 Not exactly as deep a pool as you might like either. What are your thoughts on it, John?
05:43 Any of those names I've mentioned you think are maybe not as cut and dry? Who out of his
05:48 remaining choices do you think will make up the rest of the defence?
05:53 I'm not sure he has to go massive on his numbers and defenders because you've got to remember
05:58 he can play two systems, and he's talked about that. He can play three at the back, he can
06:02 play the four at the back. I think what we saw last night in particular, and we've seen
06:05 it before, four at the back, he cannae play McKenna and Hendry in that. It just doesn't
06:11 work. Or well, maybe it does work if you've got Robertson or Tierney at left back. But
06:16 if we're playing three at the back, Tierney is your left-sided centre-half. He's become
06:22 maybe one of the best in Europe doing that position the way he does it, which is to attack
06:26 from left centre-half. And then he's also your cover at left back, and he also can play
06:31 left centre-half on a four. He's such a good enough player to do that. I think there's
06:35 a couple in there. I think Porteous is probably your best central defender. Hanley, if fit
06:43 and available, is so admired within the coaching group. I think he's faster than people think,
06:51 he's stronger than people think. He gets the wrong image sometimes among punters who think
06:57 "Oh, it's big, big Grant Hanley", but he's actually very, very good at a lot of things.
07:01 So he's got acclaim. And I don't think you have to go overboard on the centre-half centre.
07:07 I don't think a Liam Cooper, unless he's playing. I think McKenna might struggle, but because
07:12 you've got 23, you maybe take him and he's not in your starting 11.
07:19 See I would be inclined to disagree slightly, John. I think he's almost certainly going
07:26 to start every game with a five at the back, the three at the back and the wing-backs.
07:31 I think maybe the playing with a four at the back might be more if he feels he needs to
07:36 adjust mid-game if we're trailing. But it's hard to say. So in that case, I think maybe
07:44 if you only have one or two extra spots in the team, I do think you want to take a defender.
07:52 The Grant Hanley...
07:53 In which case your back three then is probably Tierney left, Hanley in the middle and Porteous
07:59 right or a combination of that or A and other. Maybe McKenna makes it in there. Yeah, you're
08:03 right.
08:04 I think Grant McKenna gets in ahead of Hanley. We need to speak about Grant Hanley because
08:08 it's a really interesting one. I want to come to you here, Barry. Obviously, having a centre-back
08:12 of his experience, you want that in the squad, if not just in the starting 11, but certainly
08:18 in the group. But he's coming off the back of a very bad ACL injury and he is at a more
08:26 senior age in his career. So that does mean he's probably going to take a bit longer to
08:29 recover. On top of that, I understand he's actually had a bit of a setback. He's yet
08:34 to play this season. He's suffered another setback. It's a race against time for him,
08:39 isn't it?
08:40 It is and it's a shame because, as John was alluding to there, each time you've seen Grant
08:47 Hanley in a Scotland shirt in the last couple of years prior to this injury, he's been excellent.
08:52 He hasn't even had an average game. He's been good or very good or superb in every match.
08:59 That's why Steve Clarke likes him. He's not just the rugged, brutish centre-back. He can
09:06 actually play. He reads the game well. He can get the ball down and pass it. He's not
09:10 overly fancy. He just gets the ball down and gives it to the guys in front of him who can
09:14 then use it from there. I really hope that he gets fit in time to be part of it because
09:20 I think Scotland defence is better with Hanley in it, flanked by, you could argue, Henry
09:26 or Portis to the right and certainly Tierney to the left.
09:29 On Henry, how much is where he's playing, how much is that a factor for you, Barry?
09:34 It's a good point, John, because it's not the same level, with the greatest of respect,
09:40 it's not the same level as your Tierney and Robertsons are playing at and even Hickey
09:44 Paterson and most of the other defences are playing in the English Premier League. But
09:51 you have to say that Henry hasn't done anything wrong in a Scotland shirt and therefore probably
09:54 doesn't deserve to be, at the moment, wouldn't deserve to be left out. But at the same time,
10:01 Portis has been very good. I've been really impressed with Portis and I know he's not
10:04 playing in top flight football at the moment either, but he hasn't put a foot wrong for
10:10 Scotland and that's something else to consider. So I certainly think if Hanley's fully fit
10:14 and on form, then he'll play. Tierney will definitely play if you're on the left of the
10:18 back three. So the only question is who plays on the right and it's between Henry and Portis.
10:24 Not McKenna, no. McKenna's left sided, so you want a bit more balance.
10:31 McKenna to me is Tierney's deputy on the left side of the back three.
10:35 There's two very different players for one to be deputising over.
10:42 McKenna did make an overlapping run last night at one point.
10:46 That's right, aye. I was actually behind that goal and it came charging down the left wing.
10:50 I was thinking, what's going on here? Did he get up here? Did he get the train?
10:53 It's like watching a chest freezer overtake a 2x4.
10:56 Putting a good cross as well.
11:00 Yeah, well, I think and then obviously, if he does take an extra centre back, I think
11:08 that the other two that are probably somewhere in the discussion are John Suter and Dominic
11:14 Hayham. They are obviously further down the list, but it's probably a good thing for Rangers
11:22 and for Coventry City because those two guys know that they're not only competing with
11:28 guys that are more established than them, but if a spot does open up, they're competing
11:32 with each other.
11:33 And that's going to, hopefully, if you're a Rangers fan or a Coventry City fan, reap
11:36 some rewards towards the end of the season.
11:38 But we're just going to take a short ad break.
11:41 We'll be back to pick more of our Scotland squad shortly.
11:44 Just before we move on for the defence, if we're seeing Tierney as a left-sided centre
12:12 back, is there anything to be said for taking an additional specialist left back like Greg
12:18 Taylor in the squad or is there just not the space for that?
12:21 I can see you shaking your head, John.
12:25 I think we've, we're hopefully, I like Greg Taylor as a player and I think he's done a
12:31 lot of very good things.
12:32 He had a great season last year for Celtic in particular.
12:35 I think we'd like to think we're moving on from guys who won't let anybody down, which
12:40 is what I would call him as a player, to guys who are going to go out and take games by
12:44 the scruff of the neck.
12:45 And I think if we have a situation where Robertson's injured, suspended, wherever it is, I think
12:49 you move Tierney there and you rearrange your central defence because Tierney's so good
12:54 at that.
12:55 He's so natural at it.
12:56 He's made this brilliant role for himself as a left centre half, but he would be absolutely
13:00 brilliant if we had to shuffle things around there.
13:04 And I think you've probably got a little bit more cover then if you take an extra central
13:07 defender to shift things around.
13:09 He's such an important attacking threat if he's going to play the 3-5 or 3-4-2-1, whatever
13:14 you want to call it.
13:15 He's such an important attacking threat.
13:18 You really need somebody who's, again, that absolutely, as Barry talked about, playing
13:21 at a higher level, top-notch, genuine, international-experienced, international-class player out there.
13:27 Yeah, I think Greg Taylor, he'll certainly be on standby, but I think we're also, I'm
13:32 probably guilty of sitting here and forgetting that Aaron Hickey's been so impressive at
13:36 right back that forgetting that he's actually a left back.
13:42 It's probably fair to say that Taylor doesn't make the score.
13:45 I think that that's what might have happened in this window.
13:48 If Hickey had been fit, I think he would have played Hickey left wing back and Patterson
13:52 right wing back.
13:53 Yeah, Hickey's such a clever player.
13:56 You could slot him in either side, can't you?
14:00 So moving on to midfields, it follows on nicely from a point you just made there, John, about
14:05 picking guys that haven't let you down, because we're going to get onto one specific individual
14:11 who I'm sure everyone can tell who I'm alluding to.
14:15 But in terms of, I think midfield is pretty, again, it's pretty obvious.
14:20 We know McTominay, McGinn, McGregor, Gilmour are all going to be there.
14:27 I mean, Lewis Ferguson's surely not going to miss out.
14:29 I know he's not been as established a player over Steve Clarke's reign as other players
14:35 we've mentioned, but given his form in Serie A, I think it would be a travesty to not take
14:40 him.
14:41 Armstrong and Christie, did both of them make the squad, Barry?
14:48 I think so, yeah.
14:49 Again, if you look over the piece with Steve Clarke's reign, they've been regular members
14:55 of the squad, you know, solid members of the squad, who have at times started games and
15:01 had their impact, at times come off the bench and had impacts, versatile, clearly capable
15:07 of assists and goals and set pieces and all that sort of thing.
15:11 I think they bring quite a lot.
15:13 Each of them brings quite a lot to the squad.
15:16 And in that context, yeah, I think it's pretty certain that both will go.
15:22 So the fact that we're realising now is that we've only got 23 men and we're running out
15:26 of space and this takes us nicely to Kenny McLean.
15:32 Also Ryan Jack, who we don't want to overlook, but I think if you're cutting a squad down
15:37 to 23 men, I mean, feel free to jump in if anyone disagrees, but I don't think Ryan Jack
15:42 makes the 23.
15:44 Kenny McLean, on the other hand, there's no room for sentiment in this kind of selection,
15:51 but you felt for him missing the last Euros having played such an important part in qualifying
15:57 for them.
15:58 And it's fair to say, like, I mean, the goal in Oslo alone, but he's been an important
16:03 part of qualifying this time around.
16:05 But he's right on that.
16:08 I mean, is there space for him in the squad?
16:10 That would be my question, Barry.
16:13 Yeah, I don't think there's any doubt that Kenny McLean will go.
16:17 Again, another guy that Steve Clarke rates really highly.
16:20 Dependable, reliable, always turns up for every squad, never moans about not starting
16:26 games, always comes on and gives you a solid performance, keeps the ball extremely well,
16:32 his ball retention is excellent, he's got a lovely left foot, can take a penalty as
16:36 we saw in the Israel penalty shootout.
16:40 So yeah, I don't think there's any question that he'll be there.
16:44 I actually felt sorry for him in the Norway game when he started wide on the left, because
16:48 he is a centre midfield player.
16:49 I know he's left-footed and he can do a job reasonably out there, but it just wasn't his
16:54 position and it was a shame.
16:55 You can imagine that in a pre-match chat.
16:57 You're on the left wing.
16:58 Yeah, I don't think it's sentiment.
16:59 I don't think it's sentiment at all, Barry.
17:01 He made all the right points.
17:02 He's an intelligent footballer, he keeps the ball well.
17:05 You know you can throw him on in about three or four different situations to do a very
17:10 specific job, like go on in Oslo, go on and take some hand grenades and try and create
17:16 some chaos.
17:18 You're 1-0 up, go on and kill it.
17:20 Go on and be very tidy.
17:22 Play the ball back to the full-back, get it back in, play it out.
17:25 He can do all these things very, very well.
17:27 So I don't think that would be a sentiment thing.
17:29 I think that would be Clarke looking at guys he knows he can plug into the team and play
17:33 in different positions, different roles, different game situations.
17:38 I mean I'm not trying to do him a disservice.
17:40 I'm actually a huge fan of Kevin McLean and he makes my 23 certainly.
17:45 I just am, you know, recognizing the fact that there are sections of the Scotland support
17:50 who do sort of roll their eyes every time he's chosen.
17:53 But you guys have made the perfect point there.
17:56 Everything he brings to Scotland, you know, not just his ability but his mentality as
18:00 well, like I don't think we can say he isn't there on merit.
18:04 So yeah, I really, I agree with you guys fully.
18:07 I think he makes the 23.
18:09 But now we need to move on to strikers and this is where the numbers game sort of comes
18:15 into play.
18:16 Because if we look at who we've chosen so far, do we still have room for free strikers?
18:22 Is he going to want to take free strikers or is Steve Clarke going to want to take an
18:28 additional midfielder or an additional defender?
18:32 If it's me, personally, I take maybe if I've got two additional players I can take for
18:39 me it's an extra centre back and an extra midfielder which only leaves two strikers
18:45 which obviously is going to be Dykes and Adams.
18:49 That's just my personal opinion.
18:50 So I want to take you guys in.
18:53 We said that obviously we're not taking Taylor and if we're not overloading on centre backs,
18:58 which is what we've kind of agreed on, that we don't need to take Haim or Suter if Hanley's
19:05 fit.
19:06 That does leave us with free striker spots.
19:09 So which is good because it does mean we can sort of get into the point of this debate
19:13 because we know Dykes and Adams will go.
19:16 So it's who does that third striker slot go to?
19:20 Shankland, Brown, Nisbet.
19:23 Barry, who would you?
19:26 Take Shankland at the moment.
19:29 Simply on form you have to take Shankland.
19:31 Again, there's a long time, a lot of football to be played between now and naming the squad
19:37 in May but Shankland's goal-scoring record, he's the only Scotland striker who's scoring
19:43 regularly in a top league, top flight.
19:47 The rest of them are either playing for a team in a second tier or in Jacob Brown's
19:53 case playing quite regularly at Luton but not scoring many goals.
19:57 So I think Shankland, they're all different, the strikers are all different.
20:01 Dykes has got qualities that Adams doesn't have, Adams has got qualities that Shankland
20:05 doesn't have, Shankland's got qualities that neither Dykes nor Adams have got.
20:09 So again, they all bring something else to the table.
20:11 I think as well, probably worth pointing out that when the Scotland squad is named, Ryan
20:16 Christie's listed as a forward.
20:19 So he's in among that category as well.
20:21 So to me, if you were saying to me that the Scotland squad for the Euros next summer,
20:25 your four forwards would be Christie, Shankland, Dykes and Adams, I'd be quite happy with that.
20:29 It's fair to say John that Jacob Brown didn't really take the chance that was finally given
20:35 to him against Norway last night.
20:39 Are you with Barry on that?
20:40 If we're taking one more striker, is it Lawrence Shankland?
20:44 I think so but I think a lot depends between now and the end of the season.
20:48 This is always the case.
20:49 It's like when we talk about the Kenny McLean thing and people say, "Oh, fans roll their
20:56 eyes."
20:57 Who are you taking instead?
20:58 That's a question to them.
20:59 So it's up to somebody else to jump their way in there.
21:01 Well, if you're a Rangers fan and Ryan Jack misses out, I guess that's who you would say
21:05 over Kenny McLean.
21:06 If Ryan Jack has an outstanding second half to the season, then yes.
21:13 He's brilliant and does everything that he did at his absolute peak of his game, moving
21:17 the ball really quickly, taking it over.
21:19 Then I'm sure Steve Clarke has a look and goes, "Actually, maybe I'll take him as an
21:23 extra midfielder."
21:24 So, up front, yeah, listen, Shankland's just a goal-getter, isn't he?
21:30 It does remind me, I was chatting to you earlier and Barry will be old enough to remember it,
21:34 but France '98, there was all this Paul Wright, was it?
21:39 Killy?
21:40 And we're scoring goals.
21:41 Left, right and centre.
21:42 He was scoring goals, scoring goals.
21:44 And everyone thought he was a shoo-in for it.
21:46 And then I'm trying to think, I think Craig Brown ended up taking Kevin Gallagher, Darren
21:52 Jackson, Gordon Durie, Scott Booth.
21:54 I think Scott Booth was there as well.
21:57 And it was like this guy who was scoring goals for fun in the domestic league was just left
22:02 out because ultimately at the end, there were four guys who had experience at a higher level.
22:07 Kevin was at Blackburn at the time.
22:12 Darren Jackson had moved to Celtic from Dundee United, hadn't he?
22:15 At that point, I'm trying to think, Durie was still at Rangers.
22:18 Durie was at Rangers, yeah.
22:19 Yeah, Durie was at Rangers.
22:20 He was just him over there.
22:21 Scott Booth at Dortmund even.
22:22 Was Scott Booth at Dortmund?
22:23 Yeah, Ali McCoy didn't make it.
22:24 Was Scott Booth at Dortmund at the time?
22:27 Or Dutch club?
22:28 20, maybe.
22:29 I'm not sure.
22:30 Yeah, maybe FC20.
22:31 So he took guys from a different environment.
22:32 But again, we don't have that at the moment.
22:36 There's nobody else you're looking at out there going, "Oh, there's a great Scottish striker
22:41 ripping it up in La Liga."
22:45 I think we've got our Scotland squad then.
22:47 So let's just go through that finally.
22:48 Can someone count along with me just to make sure we've got 23?
22:53 So we're looking at Angus Guns, Andrew Clarke, Craig Gordon, Andy Robertson, Kieran Tierney,
22:58 Nathan Patterson, Aaron Hickey, Grant Hanley, Jack Henry, Scott McKenna, Ryan Porteous,
23:04 Callum McGregor, Scott McTominay, Billy Gilmore, Kenny McLean, Tom McGinn, Ryan Christie, Stuart
23:10 Armstrong, Lewis Ferguson, Lyndon Dykes, Che Adams and Lawrence Shankland.
23:15 How many is that?
23:16 I thought that was 23.
23:17 I think that was 22.
23:18 22.
23:19 Liam Cooper, extra defender.
23:20 Sound all right?
23:29 You love this extra defender, aren't you?
23:30 This is his whole, "Give me an extra defender."
23:33 Yeah.
23:34 Yeah.
23:35 Yeah, that looks like a really good squad to me, lads.
23:39 Thanks very much.
23:40 That's all we've got time for this week.
23:42 Thanks for watching and as always, really looking forward to the Euros next year.
23:46 Should be a great time.
23:47 Thanks for watching.
23:48 [Music]
23:48 [Music]
23:53 (upbeat music)