"Court nay decide karna hai kay trail kahan hona hai", Rizwan Abbasi
"Court nay decide karna hai kay trail kahan hona hai", Rizwan Abbasi
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00:00 Rizwan Abbasi, I will start with you.
00:02 Please tell us, the jail trial of the cipher case which will take place from 29th August to 15th November,
00:07 has been declared as a failure by the Islamabad High Court.
00:10 Yes, absolutely.
00:12 Because the court has initiated these proceedings,
00:15 this retrial will take place.
00:17 We will consult with each other and we will challenge this order as well.
00:22 Because the second party was the first to go to the writ jurisdiction.
00:28 They came to the intra-court appeal against the single judge's order.
00:35 So, our initial contention was that this intra-court appeal does not apply.
00:39 Number one. Number two.
00:40 In the writ jurisdiction, they challenged two notifications.
00:46 One notification was said by the divisional bench that it is valid.
00:51 The second notification was a one-day notification
00:55 in which the judge was told by the ministry to go to the jail and proceed.
01:02 There were no proceedings that day.
01:03 It was the investigation stage, stage 344.
01:06 And the case was adjourned for the next date on 30th August.
01:12 At that time, no appeal was filed.
01:14 The report of 173 was not submitted.
01:16 There were no proceedings in that except for the formal adjournment.
01:23 So, the divisional bench has embarked on the other notifications beyond their domain.
01:36 Because the second party did not challenge them in the writ jurisdiction.
01:42 So, if it is beyond jurisdiction, have you agreed to challenge it?
01:46 And now this Taman trial will basically start again, Mr. Abasi.
01:50 Yes, yes.
01:53 Because the High Court has directed that this trial will be completed in 4 weeks.
01:59 So, it will not be completed in 4 weeks due to this order.
02:03 And the proceedings will start again.
02:06 And the proceedings are in the initial stage.
02:09 We have only 5 witnesses.
02:13 So, it will be again on the same stage in 2 or 3 dates.
02:19 Okay.
02:20 And Mr. Salman Akram, in the Cipher case, the judge's decision was made and the appeal against the jail trial was filed.
02:25 You have seen today that a brief written decision has been issued.
02:27 The High Court has issued a decision on three pages.
02:30 The jail trial from August to today is declared yesterday.
02:33 So, as you heard, this will start from the 9th.
02:35 Does that put you in a better place?
02:38 It means that the trial that took place in a small room,
02:43 it was a room of 10 to 12 feet.
02:45 A few days ago, they moved it to a larger room.
02:49 But before that, and even now, it was a completely closed trial,
02:54 in which the media was not allowed to be present,
02:57 the public was not allowed to be present,
03:00 the family was not allowed to be present until a few days ago.
03:04 So, in the eyes of the law and the law, such a trial is considered extremely biased.
03:10 And in my opinion, it is very unfair.
03:12 To say that we will try a person in a closed room,
03:16 testify against him,
03:18 no one will look at the attitude of the witnesses, nor will they look at the attitude of the judge,
03:22 this is not called justice.
03:24 Justice should be seen.
03:27 This was our request that whatever has happened from August to today,
03:31 all of this should be declared as biased.
03:33 This did not happen according to the requirements of the law and the law.
03:36 There was also a phase of framing the charge in this.
03:39 That too, after today's decision, the matter was over.
03:42 All proceedings will have to be started from a new perspective.
03:45 So, Samman Krumraja Sahib, one part of the case is done,
03:48 but the verdict of the Judge Official Secret Act Special Court has been passed correctly.
03:52 Your second case was not accepted.
03:55 The verdict of the Judge on 27 June has been accepted correctly according to the law.
04:00 That's fine. That was one of our points.
04:04 The point was to tell who elected this judge for this trial.
04:09 There are 1500 session judges and additional session judges in the country.
04:13 How was this one judge elected?
04:16 That is an issue that is going on in our country.
04:19 At this time, it was said or this record proved that
04:23 Chief Justice Islamabad Haikot approved or elected him.
04:29 That is a matter of its own.
04:32 In Islamabad, a judge was appointed for three years as a judge of anti-terrorism.
04:37 He was suddenly removed.
04:39 This judge was appointed and a few weeks later he was appointed as a judge of the CYFOR trial.
04:45 But, nevertheless, these things happen in our country.
04:48 In this regard, the technical requirements were obviously fulfilled.
04:53 So, we will not have any special complaints about this.
04:56 We will see how the conduct of the judge will be in the future.
05:00 But, as far as the 8-day proceedings are concerned, this was our main issue.
05:05 All these proceedings should be called off tomorrow.
05:08 The Cabinet has also tried to approve this proceedings.
05:12 To establish a legal framework on it.
05:18 But, all that is not possible today.
05:20 But, sir, as Mr. Rizwan Abbasi said, and the case will certainly start again,
05:26 will the testimonies of the witnesses be recorded again, Mr. Salman Akram Raja?
05:29 Yes, the entire framework of the charge, there were many requests for the acquisition of documents.
05:35 All that will have to be done in a new way.
05:38 And, Mr. Rizwan Abbasi, are you also in agreement that the five testimonies of the witnesses
05:43 that you have closed the pen, will you do the same again?
05:47 Yes, if this order is sustained, then yes.
05:53 The charge will be framed again.
05:55 And, the proceedings will be initiated again.
05:58 And, the statements of the witnesses will be recorded again.
06:02 Okay. And, Mr. Rizwan Abbasi, the trial can only be done in the jail when all the requirements of the open trial are met.
06:08 This was said today.
06:09 The in-camera trial can also be done only when all the legal processes are completed.
06:14 Now, the appeal against the decision of Chairman PTI's single bench is due to end on 29th August.
06:19 And, all the notifications of the Ministry of Law after this have been disposed off.
06:23 They have been declared as absent.
06:24 But, still, the lawyer of PTI is saying repeatedly that the in-camera trial should be done.
06:32 Justice should be served.
06:35 So, what will you say about the leaning towards an open trial?
06:39 First of all, the accused's vested rights have been stated in the law.
06:48 Now, the venue of the trial is not the accused's vested right.
06:53 That is the domain of the court.
06:55 The court has to decide whether the trial is valid or not.
06:57 As far as the open trial is concerned, the public at large is never given permission in any trial
07:05 to come to the court with a full set of evidence and not to have a place in the courtroom
07:12 and to have created a different atmosphere.
07:16 This is not even the will of the law.
07:18 So, this trial was never closed or in-camera trial.
07:22 We had given an application, section 14, of the Official Secret Act,
07:26 that by virtue of section 14, this should be in-camera.
07:30 The judge had postponed it because it was being held in jail.
07:35 So, it will be seen when the appropriate stage will come.
07:37 So, this is not in-camera.
07:39 Recently, in November, the judge ordered that five family members of the accused
07:48 can come to the courtroom for proceedings.
07:52 Earlier, there was less space in the courtroom.
07:55 So, because of this, so many people could not be accommodated.
07:59 And as we wanted to get a big courtroom, the judge ordered it.
08:04 And on that order, both the accused have shown their satisfaction
08:09 that this environment is conducive and it is right.