"I was dead broke" Eric Shango on almost quitting before his big break!

Your Cinema

Yourcinemafilms.com | Breakthrough star Eric Shango (Trigger Point, ITV) goes in depth about his career to date, including his difficulty at drama school and almost giving up before landing his role as Danny in Trigger Point!  ’Welcome to Your Cinema'  Follow us on socials: Tiktok: @yourcinemafilms Instagram: @yourcinemafilms Twitter: @yourcinemafilms

Transcript

00:00:00 (upbeat music)

00:00:02 - Welcome, welcome to another episode of Industry Notes

00:00:08 where we do our best to really demystify the industry

00:00:12 and just really get to the truth of how our guests are doing,

00:00:17 how they have done it,

00:00:23 how they've got to where they got to,

00:00:25 and just like keys to their success

00:00:29 and long may it always continue.

00:00:31 Today, we've got an amazing guest,

00:00:35 someone who is like,

00:00:37 it might look like they've done some things overnight,

00:00:41 but they've really been like, you know,

00:00:43 grafting and doing things that people might not really

00:00:48 either be aware of or give them their accolades for.

00:00:51 So I will do my best.

00:00:54 We've got Eric Shango here today,

00:00:57 who is an actor.

00:01:00 He was in the iconic "Barbershop Chronicles"

00:01:04 and also probably a little bit more widely known

00:01:08 for being in "Trigger Point"

00:01:10 produced by Jed Mercurio from "Lion of Duty,"

00:01:14 but sharing the screen with like Vicky McClure

00:01:18 and Adrian Lestar and so many others who are like,

00:01:22 you know, legendary in this thing.

00:01:25 And it's amazing to see someone, you know,

00:01:29 come in and literally like hold his own.

00:01:32 So yeah, you know, it's a pleasure to have you.

00:01:35 Thank you for your time today, bro.

00:01:37 - Thank you, man.

00:01:38 Thank you.

00:01:39 What an intro.

00:01:39 (laughing)

00:01:40 What an intro.

00:01:42 Yeah, thanks for having me, bro.

00:01:43 Thanks for agreeing to do an interview.

00:01:47 Yeah, it's a pleasure.

00:01:49 Hope I can give you what's needed.

00:01:53 - All good.

00:01:54 - Just to add to that,

00:01:57 I think it was literally the other way around, you know,

00:01:59 like you didn't ask to be interviewed.

00:02:01 We asked you, so it was you that agreed.

00:02:03 So thank you for agreeing,

00:02:05 but I will go straight in, right?

00:02:08 So like, I guess first and foremost,

00:02:11 like how did you like first get into acting?

00:02:14 - I swear I'll try to be brief with this one

00:02:19 'cause I think you underestimate just how much

00:02:22 or how many times this question will be asked

00:02:25 throughout the duration of your career.

00:02:26 And it's like, snap, I got to think of the quick one.

00:02:29 Well, mine was quite unorthodox, really.

00:02:33 I didn't, I always kind of knew I wanted to act from,

00:02:36 I wanted to do something in like film and TV.

00:02:40 And I was very much obsessed with it when I was young.

00:02:43 And so I know that I did entertain it a little

00:02:48 when I was like, from where I grew up.

00:02:51 So I'm from North London originally.

00:02:53 And my area was quite run down

00:02:57 or parts of my area is quite run down.

00:02:59 And so there wasn't that much available.

00:03:01 And a way to kind of avoid certain things happening,

00:03:07 my teachers kind of pushed me towards

00:03:10 like drama-based like studies and stuff.

00:03:16 And the youth club in my area too.

00:03:20 Actually, there's actually a famous social media personality

00:03:24 called Madam Joyce.

00:03:26 - Okay.

00:03:27 - And she told me that she came to watch me in a play.

00:03:30 We were at an event one time.

00:03:32 She came to tell me that she watched me in a play

00:03:33 when I was like 13.

00:03:34 I was like, what?

00:03:36 So yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:03:38 So yeah, it was kind of that,

00:03:39 that kind of, I guess, sparked the kind of interest.

00:03:44 And then I kind of got lost with it.

00:03:49 I didn't really, after going to like,

00:03:51 I went to Young Actors Theatre for a bit.

00:03:53 A few household names gone there over the years.

00:03:58 But yeah, I kind of lost touch with that.

00:04:01 Got distracted and confused by just being a young teenager

00:04:05 in life and whatever.

00:04:06 And then I came back to it whilst I was at college.

00:04:11 And funnily enough, I went to this,

00:04:16 I think it was an open casting call

00:04:18 or some audition for Youngers.

00:04:20 Who finally, a good friend of mine, Sam Sinclair,

00:04:25 was there that day, but we'd never met each other.

00:04:29 Like we didn't know each other.

00:04:29 We came to find out later that that would have been the case.

00:04:32 And so yeah, I went to that casting call,

00:04:36 but again, I was so distracted.

00:04:37 I didn't really take it very seriously.

00:04:40 And so I left college.

00:04:42 I was always very good at school

00:04:46 in terms of like grades.

00:04:47 I always had very stellar academic grades.

00:04:49 And then at college, again, just getting distracted.

00:04:52 It just wasn't really the academic group.

00:04:53 It was no longer for me.

00:04:54 And in that time, in figuring out how to,

00:04:58 you know, what was basically,

00:04:59 essentially was the crossroads in my life at that point

00:05:03 in terms of what I felt like I was gonna do.

00:05:05 Was it go to uni or do whatever?

00:05:07 I then, you know, encountered a few people

00:05:11 that basically reaffirmed to me

00:05:13 that maybe this should be my route.

00:05:16 But all along inside, I knew I always wanted to act

00:05:19 if that makes any sense.

00:05:20 - Yeah, yeah.

00:05:21 - And so I ended up, this is very much the short version.

00:05:26 I ended up going, getting a job

00:05:30 at the Criterion Theater in Piccadilly Circus.

00:05:33 And there was a man that was working there.

00:05:37 He's actually an actor.

00:05:38 He goes by the name of Paul Bullion.

00:05:41 He's in the, I think he's in "The Witcher"

00:05:43 or something like that.

00:05:44 And he took a liking to me.

00:05:46 At this point, I must've been like 19 or something.

00:05:48 And he was like, "Oh, you should go to drama school."

00:05:51 And I was like, "What the hell is that?"

00:05:52 I had no idea what it was, what the requirements were,

00:05:56 what it would then mean.

00:05:57 All I knew is I had a very,

00:06:03 I come from a very strict family.

00:06:04 Like strict family in the sense that like,

00:06:07 there's no, they don't play about achievement

00:06:13 and attainment basically.

00:06:14 Like you gotta achieve.

00:06:16 And so coming from that strict family,

00:06:19 I had a lot of pressure on me basically.

00:06:20 Or I felt a lot of pressure for me to just do well

00:06:22 in anything.

00:06:23 And so my mom, I'm African, I'm Congolese.

00:06:26 So my mom wanted that paper.

00:06:29 She wanted that diploma.

00:06:30 That's all she cared about.

00:06:31 She didn't care about no acting or like,

00:06:35 I don't know where that could have taken me

00:06:38 or she had no interest in anything outside of education

00:06:42 'cause that's all they knew, innit?

00:06:43 And so I had a lot of pressure essentially

00:06:47 to kind of figure out the best of both worlds.

00:06:51 And so when drama school,

00:06:53 the concept of drama school came about,

00:06:55 it felt like literally manna from heaven.

00:06:58 Like something just descended.

00:07:00 I mean, you mean to tell me I could act or train

00:07:04 for five days a week where I'm not in the house

00:07:08 being a burden and get a degree.

00:07:14 Sign me up, bro.

00:07:15 Sign me up, bro.

00:07:16 Sign me up right now.

00:07:17 So yeah, this guy Paul Bullion introduced me to drama school.

00:07:21 He literally told me just to do some research on the schools,

00:07:26 done some research.

00:07:27 He found me the monologues that I would use.

00:07:29 He actually went through all of it and said,

00:07:32 "Take this excerpt, use it.

00:07:34 And hopefully you get into the schools and whatever."

00:07:38 And so I applied for different schools or whatever.

00:07:42 And I remember not even respecting the audition process

00:07:44 for the schools to be honest.

00:07:45 Like I walked out of some of them

00:07:46 because I just had no etiquette.

00:07:48 I didn't understand how this beast worked

00:07:51 from grassroots,

00:07:53 essentially what would be grassroots level.

00:07:55 Just literally just winging it.

00:07:59 No training, no advice,

00:08:01 no kind of outside of the guidance of Paul

00:08:04 or I guess the initiation from Paul.

00:08:07 I had no kind of reference of it.

00:08:10 So I was just winging it, bro.

00:08:12 And you'll find a lot of the time,

00:08:14 that's what this is.

00:08:14 A lot of people just winged it.

00:08:16 Some people got help.

00:08:17 Other people, I guess,

00:08:19 were walked into the industry.

00:08:22 But a lot of the time we're just winging it, bro.

00:08:24 So yeah, did the auditions.

00:08:29 And then the last one came down to the school

00:08:30 that I eventually went to called Mountview,

00:08:32 which is now in Peckham.

00:08:33 It was in Woodgreen at the time.

00:08:34 And for me, that's what sold it to me.

00:08:37 It was like,

00:08:38 I went to all of these other drama schools

00:08:39 and credit to all of them

00:08:40 in their own respective ways.

00:08:42 But I'm from North London, ain't it?

00:08:43 And so this was in Woodgreen.

00:08:47 It was in the slums of Woodgreen.

00:08:49 It was like 15 minutes from my crib.

00:08:51 The room stank.

00:08:54 It was dirty.

00:08:56 And I guess this is a reflection of my self-image

00:08:59 at that time or whatever.

00:09:00 But I was like, yeah, this is me, man.

00:09:02 If I can go somewhere for three years,

00:09:04 96 or whatever the times were,

00:09:06 this is probably what it's supposed to look like.

00:09:09 And so I did the audition process or whatever.

00:09:13 And yeah, man, eventually I got in

00:09:16 and the journey began from there.

00:09:19 - You know what?

00:09:21 That is, that's amazing.

00:09:23 There's so much that you touched on, right?

00:09:26 Especially like, even like,

00:09:29 I've really loved the whole,

00:09:31 I was gonna say idea,

00:09:32 but the truth of winging it,

00:09:34 like not really having that much support.

00:09:38 And I mean, it's probably a godsend

00:09:39 to have someone like Paul,

00:09:42 who just randomly, you know,

00:09:44 took a liking to you

00:09:45 and even threw that nugget of drama school, right?

00:09:49 I wanna know, like what,

00:09:52 before like deciding to go to drama school

00:09:57 or even in the process of that,

00:09:59 what were you, how did it feel

00:10:02 to have an idea of what you wanted to do,

00:10:06 but not really have the answers?

00:10:08 - It's one of the worst feelings in the world, man.

00:10:14 You feel very like,

00:10:15 you almost feel like you're living

00:10:17 in your own fantasy world

00:10:20 where the people around you

00:10:25 have no clue what you're trying to do.

00:10:28 And I guess your first support system is your family.

00:10:32 And I guess some of your friends or friends.

00:10:35 And trying to get people to understand something

00:10:41 that you can't even vocalize

00:10:43 or that you can't even really understand yourself

00:10:45 is probably very like suffocating at times.

00:10:48 And then in trying to actualize it,

00:10:52 and seemingly with no possible kind of route towards it,

00:10:57 is even more conflicting.

00:11:01 'Cause you're like, is this just all like a delusion?

00:11:04 Am I delusional about all of this?

00:11:06 And something that is so far away from you,

00:11:09 like obviously visibility, representation

00:11:12 is mad important to people.

00:11:14 Knowing or having somebody close,

00:11:19 people close enough to you that have done it

00:11:21 can really help influence someone's ability

00:11:25 to pursue something or to believe that it's possible.

00:11:29 And so I think to answer your question,

00:11:33 it felt very boxed in, but ultimately I think,

00:11:38 there was no no.

00:11:44 I just didn't take no for an answer, even to myself.

00:11:47 Like, it's not true you have the voices

00:11:49 that tell you to leave it or whatever.

00:11:50 But I just didn't take no for an answer.

00:11:53 Like, even how I ended up working at the Criterion Theatre,

00:11:56 my instinct at the time, 'cause I was working at M&S,

00:12:00 I got tired of living a certain way.

00:12:03 So I got a job and whatever.

00:12:04 And my idea was, I need to follow the money.

00:12:09 And to follow the money into the industry,

00:12:13 if that's where then I can clarify that by like,

00:12:15 bro, even if I'm a cleaner in a theatre,

00:12:19 eventually I'll find my way

00:12:21 'cause I'm in the right building.

00:12:23 I'm in the right institution.

00:12:24 So even if I'm watching people on stage

00:12:27 or I'm in the back cleaning up, whatever,

00:12:31 eventually I will find the people

00:12:34 that will help me get to where I need to be.

00:12:36 And that was just something that I felt

00:12:39 with utter conviction, like unequivocal conviction within me

00:12:43 that that was the case.

00:12:44 And then it turned out to be the case

00:12:45 'cause one thing led to another

00:12:47 and one person led to another.

00:12:49 And so, yeah, I guess to circle it back to

00:12:52 what your question would be,

00:12:54 it's difficult in the beginning

00:12:55 to obviously have these internal instincts and feelings,

00:13:01 not know how to go about it

00:13:03 and not know who to go to for kind of assistance.

00:13:07 But ultimately, I just,

00:13:08 there was nothing about God himself

00:13:12 that was gonna stop me from being able to

00:13:14 figure out if it were really possible.

00:13:18 - That is, you see that

00:13:23 unwavering persistence, right?

00:13:28 That is, like, you know, you often hear,

00:13:32 you know, work hard, grind hard,

00:13:34 but what you described,

00:13:39 like overcoming those mental barriers,

00:13:41 those environmental barriers,

00:13:43 that lack of, let's say, family support,

00:13:48 not from a negative perspective,

00:13:50 but just 'cause they probably didn't understand

00:13:52 that that's even a thing.

00:13:53 And then just to even say, look,

00:13:58 I believe in this thing so much

00:14:00 that let me just be in the building.

00:14:02 That'll be something.

00:14:05 And lo and behold, that actually was, you know,

00:14:09 the starting point of, you know,

00:14:12 meeting Paul and even finding out about drama school

00:14:15 and then going off with that one nugget of like,

00:14:17 all right, cool, let's see what that is.

00:14:19 That's amazing. I love that.

00:14:21 You know, so, okay, cool.

00:14:24 You've gone to drama school,

00:14:25 you've gone to Mount View, right?

00:14:27 How important was drama school for you?

00:14:30 - Drama school was,

00:14:32 drama school at the time felt like such a pain,

00:14:36 if I'm being honest with you.

00:14:37 It felt like a pain,

00:14:39 if we were to put it to a percentage,

00:14:42 about 80% of the experience I had there,

00:14:44 I really disliked.

00:14:45 And for the large majority of the time,

00:14:51 I felt completely misunderstood.

00:14:53 But drama school was important,

00:14:55 not for what people, I guess,

00:14:57 the general perception that people have of it.

00:15:04 I think drama school was important for me

00:15:06 because of it being a place,

00:15:10 a safe place where I can get it wrong,

00:15:13 where I can make mistakes,

00:15:16 where I can be criticized and judged

00:15:20 and have comments made about me

00:15:24 in a place where it's safer than if I were on TV

00:15:29 or if I were in a show.

00:15:32 It was an opportunity for me to learn the etiquette

00:15:36 or its earliest form of that.

00:15:41 It was an opportunity for me to be able to build,

00:15:47 because this is the thing with a lot of actors

00:15:50 that I've learned and I've got people around me

00:15:53 and I've already mentioned some of them

00:15:54 that have taught me some really harsh lessons

00:15:58 about how this thing really works.

00:16:00 And that a lot of people who are in this industry,

00:16:04 particularly through the medium of acting,

00:16:06 we feel like we're worthy of something

00:16:09 just because the talent dictates it.

00:16:12 However, there's a whole other side of it

00:16:15 that is equally as required

00:16:19 and that's the managing of that position

00:16:21 and the characteristics and the personality

00:16:25 required to manage said position.

00:16:27 Because this comes with a lot.

00:16:28 We're in an interview right now.

00:16:30 We don't interview postmen, do you know what I mean?

00:16:33 So I feel like that's what drama school

00:16:38 began to do for me.

00:16:41 It began to check me as a human being.

00:16:43 I was somebody that struggled

00:16:47 with a lot of emotional invulnerability.

00:16:51 And so as an actor, we need to be able to emote

00:16:56 and elicit emotion.

00:16:57 And you can't do that if you have no capacity

00:17:00 or degree of vulnerability to you

00:17:02 or you can't access it.

00:17:04 And so that's what drama school did.

00:17:05 That drama school was incredibly important,

00:17:07 although I hated what it felt like,

00:17:09 but ultimately it's only when you're uncomfortable

00:17:13 do you begin to create the space for growth, isn't it?

00:17:16 Because it wasn't what I knew to be normal.

00:17:20 And yeah, so it was definitely very, very important

00:17:24 for that, but I think it's also important

00:17:28 to validate the experience that I had.

00:17:31 But drama school isn't all bad, do you know what I mean?

00:17:33 That was just when I went and that was the time that I had.

00:17:36 And I imagine that there's other people

00:17:37 who will go to drama school or who have been to drama school

00:17:39 that had a completely different experience,

00:17:41 completely different experience.

00:17:42 So yeah.

00:17:45 - You know what, Sori, you said something

00:17:49 that is like, it seems like it was a roller coaster

00:17:53 of emotions, right?

00:17:55 Which I just wanna quickly unpack

00:17:57 because on one hand, you've got this unwavering belief

00:18:03 and desire to act.

00:18:04 You find out about drama school

00:18:06 and there's one 15 minutes down the road

00:18:09 that you feel like the environment is like,

00:18:12 yeah, this is a bit of me.

00:18:14 And then you go there and you don't like it, right?

00:18:18 It's a lot, you dislike it quite a bit.

00:18:22 But then after you've got the maturity to look back

00:18:25 and say, no, but it was good for me,

00:18:27 which is like, I'm excited, I don't like it,

00:18:30 but that was good for me.

00:18:31 What didn't you like about drama school?

00:18:34 Why did you dislike it?

00:18:36 - I hated everything, bro.

00:18:38 Like I hated everything, but I hated everything

00:18:40 because of where I was at in my life as a person.

00:18:43 And I think a lot of the time,

00:18:44 retrospect is a beautiful thing in hindsight

00:18:48 or, but I feel like I'm somebody that tries to train myself

00:18:53 to be able to see things in hindsight, but instantaneously.

00:18:57 And I think what it was about drama school at the time was,

00:19:03 and you know what's so crazy?

00:19:04 I actually didn't go in for the first couple of years.

00:19:06 I didn't go in a lot.

00:19:07 Like I stayed home loads, stayed home bare, bro.

00:19:09 Because it just wasn't, man, it wasn't my world.

00:19:14 It was in Wood Green, which is my world.

00:19:17 But it just wasn't my world at all.

00:19:18 Like the students come from very, very varied backgrounds

00:19:23 and circumstances, and I guess the connection wasn't,

00:19:28 there was no synergy at that time.

00:19:30 I know I had a lot of, I guess like closed offness towards it.

00:19:37 So I guess it just created this cycle of

00:19:39 not being able to be open enough to something.

00:19:42 And I don't understand why I'm doing it.

00:19:44 So I don't enjoy doing some of the lessons.

00:19:47 I didn't enjoy it.

00:19:48 I felt very judged at times, or too judged.

00:19:53 And I felt like I was struggling with the level of professionalism

00:20:01 that they were asking of me at the time,

00:20:03 if I'm being completely honest with you.

00:20:05 Which is just a standard now, if I'm being like,

00:20:08 which is just the basic minimum standard

00:20:11 when you venture into this industry.

00:20:12 And amongst a whole bunch of other things,

00:20:17 but I think those are the ones that are of note or worth mentioning.

00:20:20 And I had to develop a lot.

00:20:23 I had to have a lot of honest conversations with myself

00:20:25 and ask myself, this is something that,

00:20:30 if I've looked for this opportunity for however many years,

00:20:34 and it's now been presented to me or given to me,

00:20:39 then at the end of the day, what you put in is what you get out of it.

00:20:44 So I had to make the decision to like it or lump it.

00:20:49 - Wow.

00:20:50 That is, that must, that can't have been easy at that age.

00:20:56 But then, I just want to commend you for getting through it, man.

00:21:02 That's amazing.

00:21:03 When you finished, right?

00:21:08 Cool. So, you know, there's that thing of like, cool,

00:21:10 finish drama school, ready for the industry.

00:21:13 What was it like for you at the beginning?

00:21:17 Like what kind of roles were you going up for

00:21:20 or getting when you first started, like after drama school?

00:21:23 - Well, I mean, I didn't really have that much time and space.

00:21:28 Like if I'm being honest with you,

00:21:29 my drama schooling experience was quite unique.

00:21:32 Not the most unique, but unique in that like,

00:21:36 I went straight into barbershop almost immediately.

00:21:42 That was a mad story, like if I'm being honest with you.

00:21:44 So obviously the setup of drama school is that each term

00:21:49 within the first couple of years is you do six weeks,

00:21:53 12 weeks in a term, six weeks you do essentially what is the theory.

00:21:56 So skills, so you work on different skills.

00:21:59 And then the other six weeks is the practical side,

00:22:02 which all the components of the practice,

00:22:04 the practical side, which all the components

00:22:06 that you learn within this first six weeks,

00:22:08 you, I guess they are,

00:22:12 they're put into practice through the form of a play.

00:22:14 So that's the setup for the first three modules of each term,

00:22:20 for the first module, for the three modules, excuse me,

00:22:23 of each term, that's a year.

00:22:25 Second year is the same thing.

00:22:26 Third year is, the structure is the same,

00:22:31 but how it looks is a little bit different.

00:22:33 So these are public shows now where they invite people

00:22:36 and sometimes industry people to come and watch your shows.

00:22:39 So in the third year, you have a play

00:22:45 and then you have your showcase

00:22:47 and then you have another play.

00:22:49 And the showcase is ultimately what is the most crucial part of the year,

00:22:56 because that is the point where they invite all,

00:22:59 like the school invites the agents and industry personnel

00:23:02 to attend, I guess, that part of it.

00:23:06 And so with that being in between the first

00:23:11 and the third play of the year,

00:23:13 of my third year, excuse me,

00:23:15 it meant that I'd already been seen.

00:23:20 So I'd done the first play,

00:23:23 and then the second play is the show,

00:23:24 I mean, the second part of it is the showcase,

00:23:26 the most, probably the most important bit for us actors.

00:23:28 So now I've been seen and, or we've been seen,

00:23:31 rather, as a collective, and the interest has now sparked,

00:23:34 which there wasn't that really much, that much interest,

00:23:37 if I'm being honest with you, in my time around.

00:23:39 The year below me had a lot more interest than the year above did,

00:23:41 but my year, I don't know why, just didn't have that much interest.

00:23:43 But it is what it is.

00:23:45 Anyway, so the third year comes around now,

00:23:49 and funnily enough, there was this director

00:23:51 that came to direct in my, that came to teach in my second year,

00:23:57 and I had a cathartic emotional experience.

00:24:01 Like, in that lesson, it was an acting lesson,

00:24:04 like, he had this thing where we read,

00:24:08 so it's like, it's almost like an improvised type scenario,

00:24:12 where they gather all the students around in a circle,

00:24:15 or stand in a circle, and I read off this paper,

00:24:18 this, essentially, this, somebody declaring something,

00:24:23 and then at the end of it, there is an ellipsis,

00:24:26 and you follow the structure of what it was initially.

00:24:28 So it's, I am whatever it is, I am this, I am this,

00:24:32 and then it's an I dot ellipsis, and then you then improvise from there.

00:24:36 So I remember improvising, and it had been the first time in my life

00:24:42 where I literally became so emotional, bro, like I was,

00:24:45 I had never cried like that in my life, bro, like, just,

00:24:49 I'd never cried like that, I was, I was literally on the floor,

00:24:51 like, just in bits.

00:24:53 And so, obviously, that experience was very pivotal,

00:24:57 because I was then going into my third year.

00:24:58 By the way, I'll never forget that guy.

00:25:00 So after I'd done the showcase, now we're now back in the third year,

00:25:04 after I'd done the showcase, I'm now in my third play,

00:25:07 which Roy Williams, the playwright, actually wrote.

00:25:10 A couple of us got picked to do that play.

00:25:13 And then it turns out that the director of that said play

00:25:17 was the man that taught us in that lesson

00:25:20 where I had that emotional experience.

00:25:21 So obviously, there's that connection,

00:25:24 because obviously we had that experience.

00:25:25 And I was like, "Oh, this dude again, nah, man, I don't want to,

00:25:29 bro, this guy's gonna, nah, I'm not on it."

00:25:31 Anyway, so that was a very long rehearsal process.

00:25:34 It was like six to seven weeks rehearsals.

00:25:36 And then by that point, I'd already done the showcase

00:25:39 and signed with my agent, or my, he's no longer my agent now,

00:25:42 but my agent at the time.

00:25:43 And so I think I only had like one audition before that.

00:25:49 And then the next audition would then be Barbershop.

00:25:51 So I'm auditioning for this thing now.

00:25:54 I had like, maybe it was two, it was like a, it was a self tape.

00:25:58 So like two, it was a two audition,

00:26:00 like two stage process or two step process.

00:26:02 And then I remember asking him if I could be excused

00:26:06 for one of the rehearsal sessions,

00:26:07 because I had to go into Spotlight to do the recall.

00:26:14 So he's kind of looked at me and gone, "Okay, cool.

00:26:17 You're giving me permission."

00:26:18 So I've gone, I've done that.

00:26:19 And then within 15 to 10 minutes,

00:26:22 15 to 10 minutes of leaving that audition,

00:26:25 he called me and said, "Yeah, we want you for the part."

00:26:26 Cool, sick.

00:26:28 So I've then come back to class.

00:26:32 I mean, excuse me, I've come back to rehearsals

00:26:34 and I'm doing it and he's asking me,

00:26:36 "How's the audition process going at each point?"

00:26:38 And I'm like, "Yes, it's going all right."

00:26:41 "Why are you so, it's going all right," kind of thing.

00:26:45 And he's like, "Okay."

00:26:47 And he would walk away.

00:26:47 Then for the second, for the recall, he'd done the same thing.

00:26:52 I'm just like, "What's up with this guy, bro?

00:26:54 Why does he keep asking me about his audition process?

00:26:56 That's weird."

00:26:56 Anyhow, so like I said, I've got the part.

00:26:59 I finished that play.

00:27:01 And if I finished the play at school,

00:27:06 at drama school in like early June,

00:27:09 rehearsals for Barbershop started

00:27:11 second week of June or something like that.

00:27:12 So I literally went straight into it,

00:27:15 out of drama school, raw.

00:27:17 Do you know what I mean?

00:27:18 And yeah, so as I walk into rehearsals,

00:27:22 feeling like another,

00:27:25 just like a more heightened version

00:27:27 of the first day of school type situation.

00:27:29 I see, I remember Demi Ladipo, Tom Mucci,

00:27:35 who at the time were Vine and Instagram stars, bro.

00:27:38 They're very, very good friends of mine now, obviously.

00:27:40 But yeah, they were some of the funniest people around

00:27:45 and really, really, really good actors.

00:27:48 So I walk into rehearsals, I see them

00:27:50 and I see some fantastic other actors

00:27:52 that I came to, I'm now extremely close with.

00:27:55 And I've gone, "Wow, this is the big time."

00:27:57 I've seen the director, the casting director was there,

00:28:01 all of the makeup people, the team.

00:28:03 Yeah, this is it, man.

00:28:05 This is the big time.

00:28:06 We've hit it, we've done it.

00:28:07 Thank you, Paul Bullion, bro.

00:28:10 I knew it.

00:28:11 And then I get to sit down to do the table read.

00:28:17 And then I see the man that was directing my play

00:28:21 whilst I was at school.

00:28:22 The man that led the lesson

00:28:25 when I had that crazy emotional experience.

00:28:27 And I see him and I'm like, in my mind,

00:28:31 I'm like, "What the hell is he doing here?"

00:28:33 Turns out that he was the associate director

00:28:36 on the play, on "Barbershop," bro.

00:28:38 And immediately I felt really conflicted

00:28:45 'cause I was like, "Yo, this is...

00:28:47 "Was this like a divine experience

00:28:49 "in the sense that it was always destined to be the case?

00:28:53 "Or was it that he helped me get this part?

00:28:56 "And do I feel good about that?

00:28:59 "Because I believe in making things work."

00:29:02 Obviously with help and stuff like that,

00:29:04 but on your own two feet,

00:29:05 not riding off anybody's coattails.

00:29:07 And so, yeah, this feeling of just confusion was within me.

00:29:12 But at the end of the day, I had a job to do.

00:29:13 So I was focused on the job.

00:29:15 And then we had our conversation

00:29:18 and I was like, "Ah, you knew, ah!"

00:29:20 He was like, "Ah, ah, just a lot of ah."

00:29:22 And then one day my curiosity peaked

00:29:27 and I remember speaking to my director and asking him.

00:29:30 I was just asking him a couple of questions

00:29:32 about what it was that he thought that I could have brought

00:29:36 to this version of the production.

00:29:38 And we had that conversation.

00:29:41 And then I asked him, like,

00:29:43 "If that man, that director had any input?"

00:29:52 And he said, "He didn't even mention who you were."

00:29:54 - Wow.

00:29:56 - "But we had no idea who you were.

00:29:58 "We just saw your tape and we liked it.

00:29:59 "We liked your audition."

00:30:00 And as narcissistic as it could sound, bro,

00:30:04 I felt the biggest desire of relief.

00:30:06 I was like, "Ah."

00:30:10 Why?

00:30:10 Because this is an industry where you're constantly being

00:30:15 paired up against someone,

00:30:18 where you're constantly being critiqued,

00:30:21 you're constantly being judged.

00:30:22 If you don't necessarily have the toughest skin,

00:30:28 you're constantly questioning yourself.

00:30:30 It's all of this is out of your control.

00:30:32 You're figuring out what the next thing is gonna look like

00:30:36 until you get to a certain point of establishment.

00:30:39 If you even reach that,

00:30:40 'cause that's just not a guarantee.

00:30:42 And so that validation of, "Nah, I was able to do this

00:30:49 "off my own back, by the grace and the blessing of God,

00:30:53 "I was able to do this just through my talents alone."

00:30:56 I felt very vindicated in my decision

00:30:59 to go to drama school,

00:31:00 to go through all of the stuff that I'd been through,

00:31:02 to experience the things I had experienced at the time,

00:31:05 and get to a point where someone's like,

00:31:07 "Yeah, we choose you, bro.

00:31:08 "We choose you, not because you know this person,

00:31:11 "not because this person has influenced our decision,

00:31:13 "but based off you and you alone."

00:31:15 And at that point, I felt like I earned being a part

00:31:20 of that group of men who went on to do that show,

00:31:22 or the list of people that went on to do that show,

00:31:25 rather than it being handed to me.

00:31:26 So yeah, I didn't have much experience

00:31:33 of what it felt like to be auditioning loads

00:31:38 whilst coming out of drama school.

00:31:39 I went straight into it,

00:31:40 and then stopped working for six months.

00:31:42 And then, yeah, and then I did something else,

00:31:46 'cause I decided whilst I was doing barbershop,

00:31:49 I was like, "Yeah, I wanna do TV."

00:31:50 And so I started doing that, and then locked down here.

00:31:54 - Man, do you know what?

00:31:56 This is one thing that I can't ignore,

00:32:02 and it's like screaming at me,

00:32:04 and it's really clear, right,

00:32:06 is it sounds like this thing has been like,

00:32:13 on a serious level, not in a clinical way,

00:32:20 but like mentally challenging in a way that like is,

00:32:28 is very difficult.

00:32:34 Just hearing you talk about like,

00:32:37 you know that vindication, right,

00:32:41 in terms of getting barbershop, right?

00:32:44 It's like, it sounds like that has been,

00:32:48 that pressure has been built up

00:32:51 from going to drama school for so many years,

00:32:55 being misunderstood, pushing yourself through,

00:32:59 figuring out that, you know what?

00:33:02 Okay, I don't like it, but I'm going here for a purpose.

00:33:07 I don't like it, but I wanna do this thing.

00:33:09 Okay, so let me just go through it.

00:33:11 They probably don't get me, but whatever.

00:33:14 I don't know how to really do this thing,

00:33:16 but we're here, and then you're coming

00:33:19 from an environment where it's like no handouts, innit?

00:33:22 So like, you know, cool, like we make it happen.

00:33:26 Hustle culture, all of that stuff.

00:33:27 And it's like, hold on, wait, what?

00:33:29 So you've helped me?

00:33:30 What, so maybe I'm not that good?

00:33:32 Wait, am I good?

00:33:33 So it's that, just that is, that is, yeah.

00:33:39 I haven't heard someone unpack it in that way.

00:33:42 A lot of the times people touch on it,

00:33:44 like the rejection and all of that stuff,

00:33:46 which is difficult in itself.

00:33:48 But that journey, especially being young

00:33:50 and not having the tools or someone to help break down

00:33:56 what tools you might even need,

00:33:58 but then for you to come out the other end,

00:34:02 winning is, that's huge.

00:34:06 And I wanted to ask you, right,

00:34:07 what was the reason, you know,

00:34:10 in that cathartic experience that you spoke about, right?

00:34:13 What was the reason that you cried?

00:34:15 - I mean, I remember very loosely at the time

00:34:21 I started speaking about my,

00:34:24 my just experience as a human being.

00:34:27 And I think I spoke about my family.

00:34:31 And I think in speaking about that, I think

00:34:33 the weight of everything,

00:34:39 the weight of everything over the last,

00:34:45 over those period of years had probably just,

00:34:48 had probably built up.

00:34:50 And I'm talking,

00:34:51 I was battling a lot of things at the time.

00:34:54 I was battling depression.

00:34:56 I was battling anxiety.

00:34:58 I was battling, and this was all unbeknownst to me

00:35:00 at the time, by the way,

00:35:01 I was battling,

00:35:04 I've always been a very confident guy.

00:35:09 I've always been able to hold a room.

00:35:11 I've always been able to be the life of the party

00:35:14 if I have to, and so on and so forth.

00:35:17 And what I couldn't understand along, on that journey

00:35:20 is that I had these emotions.

00:35:21 I was like, the cool guy doesn't feel this stuff.

00:35:23 The fun guy, the social guy,

00:35:28 the guy who's Mr. Popular or whatever it is,

00:35:30 isn't supposed to feel like this or,

00:35:32 just all of the pressure that had pent up,

00:35:36 I think in that monologue,

00:35:38 I basically was just explaining that I was tired

00:35:43 of wearing a mask.

00:35:45 I was tired of feeling all of the things that I felt.

00:35:48 And so they revealed themselves just in that manner.

00:35:52 And I think it was very good for me at the time.

00:35:56 No, it was very good for me after the fact,

00:35:58 because I felt like if I could do that

00:36:01 in front of all of these people,

00:36:03 as crazy as it felt at the time,

00:36:06 and that's the reception that I got from them,

00:36:10 a lot of warmth.

00:36:11 And I still have quite a close connection

00:36:13 to the people in that room.

00:36:15 So if I don't speak to all of them,

00:36:16 if not any of them,

00:36:18 actually no, I do, one of them.

00:36:19 But if I were ever to see those people,

00:36:23 we would know that we had that experience.

00:36:26 And I think everybody needs to have,

00:36:31 or should have those kinds of experiences in life,

00:36:33 because it just makes,

00:36:34 it keeps you in touch with yourself,

00:36:36 that you kind of need to be able to access

00:36:39 that depth as an actor anyway.

00:36:40 And so the reason for it was just a range

00:36:46 of all of those different elements

00:36:48 and aspects of things that were just built up

00:36:49 over years and time that just kind of released itself

00:36:52 in the way that it did.

00:36:55 Wasn't enjoyable at all,

00:36:57 but it did what it needed to do.

00:37:00 So the ends justify the means, bro.

00:37:03 - Yeah, that's amazing.

00:37:05 That's amazing.

00:37:06 So you've jumped straight into Barbershop, right?

00:37:12 I wanna know, like,

00:37:14 this, it might not be applicable, right?

00:37:20 But what would you say was like,

00:37:23 in your career today,

00:37:26 because you've done other work outside of Triggerpoint

00:37:28 and Barbershop Chronicles, right?

00:37:31 Before and after.

00:37:32 But what would you say was like,

00:37:35 for you personally, the turning point?

00:37:37 - In my career?

00:37:40 - Yeah.

00:37:40 - I have this thing where I feel like,

00:37:46 as an actor,

00:37:47 you have loads of different types of actors.

00:37:51 I feel like you have actors who look at it

00:37:55 as who are able to kind of do it

00:37:59 as purely a form of expression as a hobby.

00:38:02 You've got people that are very focused on the art form

00:38:07 and very kind of studious about it.

00:38:10 And they kind of tend to be thespians,

00:38:13 but not exclusively.

00:38:14 You have the, I guess,

00:38:18 you know, the people that,

00:38:22 you know, people that do like soaps and stuff like that.

00:38:24 I guess they're just people that work,

00:38:26 that constantly are working.

00:38:27 You have both types of actors.

00:38:28 And then you have, you know,

00:38:30 yeah, the movie stars, you know,

00:38:34 I guess the kind of star-studded type people.

00:38:36 And I always try to figure out where I reside in that,

00:38:39 or where I wanted to reside.

00:38:40 And I guess the way to simplify it for myself was that,

00:38:43 for where I was trying to go,

00:38:48 and I won't say what that is,

00:38:49 but for where I want to be or whatever it is,

00:38:52 and you always, actors always get,

00:38:54 and I look at those types of actors

00:38:55 who've had those kinds of careers.

00:38:57 And I'm like, where was the game changer?

00:39:02 And where was the life changer?

00:39:03 And not all actors have them.

00:39:09 Some of them only have one,

00:39:10 usually just the game changer,

00:39:12 meaning they no longer have to work outside of acting.

00:39:15 Acting funds their lifestyle and they're okay.

00:39:19 And I think, I remember speaking to one of my friends

00:39:24 about it, and, you know, I remember when,

00:39:28 obviously having done "Trigger Point"

00:39:30 or doing, in the midst of doing "Trigger Point,"

00:39:32 I was explaining it to him,

00:39:33 and he was like, "What, this?

00:39:34 This is nothing, man. This is nothing."

00:39:36 And I remember thinking, "What?"

00:39:38 And if he sees this, he'll know,

00:39:39 he'll know I'm talking about it.

00:39:41 He's like, "Oh, this is nothing, man. This is like..."

00:39:43 And I was confused, 'cause I was like,

00:39:45 "Brother, you know where mine come from, bro?

00:39:47 Mine's on TV. What are you talking about, bro?"

00:39:50 Do you know what I mean?

00:39:51 Like, this is it.

00:39:51 I thought that that was it, but he was like,

00:39:55 "Your next thing is gonna be it."

00:39:58 And so in thinking about that,

00:40:01 I realized that "Trigger Point" was the game changer.

00:40:03 It was the game changer, not necessarily

00:40:06 because I'm rich and I'm up or whatever,

00:40:09 but it was that the industry began to know who I was.

00:40:15 The audience grew tenfold.

00:40:18 The caliber of actors that I was working with at the time,

00:40:25 I guess, were a lot more established,

00:40:32 or a lot more established,

00:40:33 and I guess have a lot more experience.

00:40:35 And so holding my own up against them

00:40:37 was going to be a test.

00:40:38 The trust from the people who are putting millions

00:40:43 into this beast of a show was going to be,

00:40:49 I guess, scrutinized through whether I was worthy enough

00:40:53 or skilled enough to be able to hold my own.

00:40:56 And so I guess that was the game changer in that regard.

00:40:59 Obviously, there were other elements

00:41:01 and aspects that changed,

00:41:02 which is also very good.

00:41:05 But I guess that was really the focus, bro,

00:41:12 if I'm being honest with you.

00:41:13 And so as much as "Barbershop,"

00:41:16 it changed and opened up my perspective.

00:41:20 I'd done some other stuff just before

00:41:24 going into "Trigger Point,"

00:41:26 but yeah, "Trigger Point" definitely opened my eyes.

00:41:30 And I think I didn't have much time

00:41:33 in between going from being a theater actor

00:41:36 and having done,

00:41:36 'cause I decided I didn't want to do theater anymore.

00:41:38 I was like, "I'm not doing theater anymore.

00:41:41 I didn't want to do theater anymore."

00:41:42 Even after having done "Barbershop,"

00:41:45 I felt like "Barbershop" was enough for that time.

00:41:49 And I would definitely go back into theater,

00:41:52 but for the time being,

00:41:53 I wanted to focus on TV and more screen, basically.

00:41:58 And so, yeah, as much as "Barbershop" was what it was,

00:42:02 going into this world, into the screen world

00:42:07 and establishing myself in that regard

00:42:11 was definitely what changed things.

00:42:14 - Amazing, amazing, amazing.

00:42:18 So, now "Trigger Point," it's a huge show.

00:42:23 It's huge, right?

00:42:24 For you, what was it like being confirmed

00:42:34 and landing the role of Danny?

00:42:37 - Oh, I tell you, I mean, I'll start backwards.

00:42:46 So, at the time in 2020, it was locked down, it was COVID.

00:42:51 And I always find that before things get very good,

00:42:59 they always become incredibly difficult.

00:43:00 If it's not in your physical life, it becomes mentally.

00:43:04 And a lot of the time, we just don't understand

00:43:06 why stuff or issues get really difficult,

00:43:11 why it feels like this, why life feels like this.

00:43:13 And you almost feel like you're a victim.

00:43:15 But I feel like, and realizing what "Trigger Point"

00:43:19 then went on to be, it was just preparation.

00:43:22 And you're always kind of observed by the powers that be

00:43:28 or God, if you're just whatever your creed is,

00:43:33 for what your next step is and how you will handle it.

00:43:35 And I was dealing with a very, like a bereavement at the time.

00:43:41 There were a lot, there were people in my family,

00:43:44 significant members of my family who were very ill,

00:43:46 who were practically on the verge of dying.

00:43:50 And I had a lot of pressure on me.

00:43:51 And I was just in a very, very bad state,

00:43:55 very, very, very bad state.

00:43:57 And so I kind of renounced acting.

00:44:00 I decided to walk away from it.

00:44:03 And my agent at the time, he really fought for me

00:44:07 to kind of, to get the bug back.

00:44:09 But I was just like, "No, I feel like I'm done with this."

00:44:12 And that's gonna happen.

00:44:14 That with actors, you're gonna feel like,

00:44:16 you're gonna feel a range of emotions throughout your career

00:44:18 by relative to wherever you are,

00:44:20 or you feel like you want to be.

00:44:21 But at the time I was done, bro.

00:44:24 Like I had auditions coming in.

00:44:25 I just wasn't even responding to emails.

00:44:28 I've got really like, I'm professional with it.

00:44:30 And I think, you see, I've always kind of been the person

00:44:33 that when it comes to like interviews and whatever it is,

00:44:35 I think it's really important to establish who you are

00:44:38 and not to kind of live a facade.

00:44:39 And it's like, I always will try to be

00:44:41 as authentic as possible when talking to people

00:44:44 or knowing that people will like, listen to me or see this.

00:44:47 And it's like, it's not just, you know,

00:44:52 that you work hard and you train,

00:44:54 or you go through a period of preparation

00:44:57 and then you learn something.

00:44:58 And it's like, nah, bro, like I was dead broke.

00:45:01 I was just trying to figure out how to make ends meet.

00:45:06 I was literally, it was just so much happening at the time

00:45:16 that I know I couldn't handle.

00:45:19 I just couldn't handle.

00:45:20 And yeah, eventually I passed through that period

00:45:27 with, by the grace of God and some good people around me

00:45:30 or whatever it is.

00:45:31 But I remember I said, I didn't really care about acting anymore.

00:45:34 I was kind of done.

00:45:35 Some of my friends were advising me to like,

00:45:38 go and work in like a coffee shop and stuff, bro.

00:45:40 Like literally they were like, just let this stuff go

00:45:43 and just go and get a job, bro.

00:45:45 Go and get a job.

00:45:46 One of my closest friends today was telling me that,

00:45:48 go and get a job.

00:45:49 He's actually a writer, director, producer, big him up.

00:45:54 And so, yeah, I really started to entertain it.

00:45:57 Like, and then I remember I had, I felt, I wanted an iPad,

00:46:04 which I'm actually talking to you off now.

00:46:07 I wanted an iPad.

00:46:08 And again, I was going to acquire it in a different kind of way.

00:46:15 But I remember saying to myself, nah, you know what, man?

00:46:20 Like, I'm going to find a way to pay for this.

00:46:23 Like, you know, God's going to help me pay for this

00:46:25 or whatever it is.

00:46:26 And I was still in that state of, I guess, indifference about acting.

00:46:32 And so I didn't know how I was going to pay for it,

00:46:35 but I just kind of thought, I don't know.

00:46:37 But I ended up getting the audition come through.

00:46:40 My agent was like, this was like on a Thursday evening,

00:46:44 like late, late for when auditions are supposed to come through.

00:46:47 - Yeah.

00:46:48 - And he wasn't in America or anything.

00:46:50 So I just didn't understand why he sent it to me at that time.

00:46:52 And he had to be in the next day, the Friday, by the end of the day.

00:46:56 I remember, like, literally I was asleep.

00:46:58 I looked at the email, I just kissed my teeth and locked the phone.

00:47:01 I was thinking, doesn't this guy know that I don't want to do this anymore?

00:47:03 - Wow.

00:47:04 - Yeah, I was like, I don't want to do this anymore.

00:47:08 Like, I was done.

00:47:09 And so I remember speaking to a mate of mine.

00:47:13 She was just like, just do it.

00:47:16 I remember before, excuse me, before even speaking to her,

00:47:19 I looked at it, there was practically nothing on the script.

00:47:22 Like, in the script, nothing.

00:47:24 Like, my character had a word to say or a couple of lines to say.

00:47:28 And I was like, you know, I was so, I guess, resentful of the industry

00:47:35 and what it was and I had a "woah is me" kind of complex.

00:47:39 So I don't give a damn about this now.

00:47:42 I'll do it when I'm ready or whatever.

00:47:43 And so I remember doing it over FaceTime because we were still in lockdown, the audition.

00:47:50 I did it.

00:47:51 And then it was a Friday.

00:47:53 I called my agent.

00:47:54 I said, I told you I don't want to do this.

00:47:56 And they've given me nothing to work with.

00:48:00 So I did what I wanted.

00:48:03 Like, I just did what I wanted.

00:48:05 And he was just like, okay, cool.

00:48:06 And he watched it back.

00:48:09 He said, yeah, I thought it was all right.

00:48:10 I thought it was pretty good.

00:48:11 We'll send it in and see what happens.

00:48:12 Saturday goes by, Friday goes by, Saturday goes by.

00:48:15 Sunday goes by, Monday arrives.

00:48:17 I remember I'm playing, and for any PlayStation or gamers,

00:48:21 I was playing 2K with my friends.

00:48:22 That was the thing in lockdown, just play 2K.

00:48:24 So I was playing 2K with my friends.

00:48:26 And I remember my agent at the time, if I got an email,

00:48:30 so if the correspondence was an email, then it wasn't good news.

00:48:33 If I got a phone call, then it was good news about anything.

00:48:37 If he called me, he had something to say.

00:48:39 And if he emailed me, then he just emailed me.

00:48:41 So I'm looking at my phone, it's ringing.

00:48:44 I'm thinking, what did this guy want?

00:48:46 10 o'clock in the morning, I'm playing 2K.

00:48:48 Man, leave me alone!

00:48:50 So I'm on the phone.

00:48:51 He's asking me if I'm all right and whatever,

00:48:54 just bearing in mind how I feel about everything.

00:48:56 He was like, "Yeah, well, literally, I'm phone to ear playing."

00:49:01 And he's like, "Yeah, so you see that role that you auditioned for,

00:49:06 whatever it is, they've offered it to you."

00:49:08 I was like, "Oh, okay, cool, sick."

00:49:10 And I carried on just playing or whatever.

00:49:13 I swear to you, if I'm lying, I'm dying.

00:49:16 This was my reaction.

00:49:17 Because I remember I didn't even take my mic off

00:49:20 because I thought it was going to be a quick phone call.

00:49:23 Because there was nothing going on at the time, right?

00:49:25 So what do we need to speak for?

00:49:26 Do you get what I mean?

00:49:28 So I'm just kind of like, "Yeah, okay, cool, sick."

00:49:29 And he was really confused by my reaction

00:49:34 because he was like, "Did you hear what I said?"

00:49:38 I was like, "Yes, I heard what you said.

00:49:41 So they offered it.

00:49:42 And now what?"

00:49:46 And he was just like, "Are you all right?"

00:49:48 And I was like, "Yeah, I'm fine."

00:49:49 He's like, "Are you okay?"

00:49:52 I'm like, "Yeah, I'm good.

00:49:53 I heard you, they've offered it, sick."

00:49:55 He's like, "All right, cool, let me call you back."

00:49:57 So I'm like, "Please."

00:49:58 So I carried on, I went back to play 2K or whatever.

00:50:00 And then he's called me back a couple of minutes later,

00:50:04 maybe like 10, no, like 20 minutes later or something.

00:50:06 And he's like, "Yeah, so these are the terms and conditions

00:50:10 or whatever, but I'm going to go back to them

00:50:13 and see if we can revise it."

00:50:14 So when he told me the terms and I was like,

00:50:16 "Oh, those are interesting terms for a role that size.

00:50:23 Anyway, cool, like whatever, who am I to judge?"

00:50:27 Whatever, carried on playing 2K.

00:50:30 So he's called me back and he's revised the terms

00:50:33 and they were better.

00:50:34 And I was like, "Okay, this is interesting.

00:50:39 Let me look at this thing again.

00:50:40 Let me look at this thing once more time."

00:50:42 So I look at it, still didn't quite understand.

00:50:45 And I guess I called my friend that helped me

00:50:51 with the self-tape.

00:50:52 'Cause what's funny enough, like a week beforehand,

00:50:55 we were in Houston Square or Houston Station at the top,

00:50:58 like where all the food kind of market is.

00:51:01 And we were literally in a state of just despair

00:51:07 about acting and what we were trying to do

00:51:10 and what the next steps were.

00:51:11 So a week or a couple of weeks later,

00:51:13 this is now the phone call I'm returning to her

00:51:15 after she's helped me with the audition.

00:51:16 She's burst into tears on the phone.

00:51:20 Looking at that, she's crazy.

00:51:24 I'm like, "Well, you know, I'm not really understanding

00:51:27 all of this crying stuff.

00:51:28 I don't really understand it.

00:51:29 But why are you crying on the phone?"

00:51:30 And she was saying, "Eric, this is it.

00:51:32 This is kind of what we've been waiting for.

00:51:33 This is what we've been working for."

00:51:34 She still had no reference of what it was

00:51:37 that this role would go on to be

00:51:39 or what the show would go on to be.

00:51:41 So I was like, "What is this?"

00:51:43 And she knew who the people were behind the show.

00:51:47 She knew who were the people, as in the actors,

00:51:51 who were in the show

00:51:53 or who would go on to be in the show.

00:51:54 And just how, I guess,

00:51:58 their experience and what they've done,

00:52:03 so how good it will be.

00:52:04 I had no reference of that.

00:52:06 So my excitement was tailored and tempered.

00:52:10 And so having only ever done one other thing on TV before,

00:52:14 when I started to get phone calls

00:52:16 from the production team very, very quickly,

00:52:18 I started to gauge, "Okay, this is a lot different."

00:52:23 And I had no idea who any of the cast members were

00:52:28 but Adrian Lester,

00:52:29 'cause Adrian Lester came to Mountain View one time

00:52:32 when it moved,

00:52:33 for it to be relocated from Woodgreen to Pickham.

00:52:36 Adrian Lester came to kind of help open up the school

00:52:39 'cause he don't live far from my area or wherever.

00:52:41 So I'd met him and I recognised him from the hustle

00:52:44 and we got to speak and I had a moment with him.

00:52:46 So I didn't even know Adrian was even in the show.

00:52:49 I had no idea he'd be in the show.

00:52:52 I had no idea.

00:52:53 And until the first day of filming, actually.

00:52:57 - Wow.

00:52:59 - 'Cause the lockdown, everything was all over the place.

00:53:01 There was no rehearsal process.

00:53:02 There was no bedding in process, you know, like at all.

00:53:06 It was just, you get the job,

00:53:08 you start in three days, like literally,

00:53:12 or two days or something,

00:53:13 sort of silly like that.

00:53:14 Like I had like,

00:53:15 I didn't have much to say in the first season.

00:53:19 So all of the lines and all of the kind of research,

00:53:22 I had like a day and a half to do it basically.

00:53:23 - Wow.

00:53:24 - So yeah.

00:53:27 Even when we had training and stuff like that,

00:53:30 'cause we had like ops training.

00:53:32 - Yeah.

00:53:32 - That's the day I met like Vicky.

00:53:38 I had no idea who she was.

00:53:39 - Oh, wow.

00:53:42 - No idea who she was.

00:53:43 I have this thing about names.

00:53:44 So obviously I've got people

00:53:45 and I like to remember people's names.

00:53:46 So I'm like, "Yo, my name's Eric, lovely to meet you."

00:53:49 So on and so forth.

00:53:49 And I went up to her and I was like,

00:53:50 "Yeah, my name's Eric, what's your name?"

00:53:51 And she's like, "Oh, me? Yeah."

00:53:53 "Yeah, my name's Vicky, lovely to meet you."

00:53:56 I was like, "Oh, same, lovely to meet you."

00:53:57 And I walked away or whatever.

00:53:58 We knew, obviously we'd be working together.

00:54:02 She's like, "Oh, you're my Danny, right?"

00:54:04 I'm like, "Yeah, yeah."

00:54:05 Like, yeah, lovely to meet you.

00:54:05 Kind of just walked off or whatever.

00:54:07 And I remember someone who's actually a good friend of mine

00:54:10 now, his name's Mabil Eluabi, he's an actor.

00:54:12 He was like, "It's always good to know the lead's name."

00:54:14 I was just like, "All right, cool."

00:54:16 And so I just had no reference, bro.

00:54:20 I didn't know what Lionel Dutty was.

00:54:22 I didn't know what any who Jed Mercurial was.

00:54:25 I didn't know any of that stuff.

00:54:26 I'd heard of that Bodyguard show and stuff like that,

00:54:28 but I just didn't know.

00:54:29 I didn't know, bro.

00:54:30 So, and I guess that kind of helped

00:54:32 'cause I had no excitement towards it.

00:54:33 I just treated it like it was work.

00:54:35 I treat everybody like they were professionals

00:54:37 and there was no kind of playing up to the situation

00:54:41 or anything like that.

00:54:42 So I think it worked out in the end, but yeah,

00:54:46 I guess with your question being what it felt like

00:54:52 to get the role, I had no feelings

00:54:55 because of where I was coming from.

00:54:57 It's only after the fact and everything that then played out

00:55:01 and ensued after is where I was like,

00:55:04 yo, okay, oh, oh, oh, right.

00:55:08 Okay, this is real.

00:55:10 This is the real deal.

00:55:11 And then I became very much aware of

00:55:16 like what I was working with,

00:55:20 what I was on the verge of.

00:55:22 - You know what, bro?

00:55:25 Yeah, I just wanna say,

00:55:29 thank you for your honesty and vulnerability, right?

00:55:35 Because the way you answered in terms of like

00:55:41 how true and truthful in terms of where you were,

00:55:48 that is like,

00:55:51 like I was really shocked when you were that candid

00:56:00 in terms of like, yo, this is where I was at.

00:56:02 And it's like, oh, are you like...

00:56:07 - 'Cause a lot of the time people think that

00:56:10 you see actors, we're actors, bro.

00:56:13 So we're, you know, we're acting, I guess,

00:56:17 or putting up a front.

00:56:18 A lot of the time actors don't know what's coming next,

00:56:21 especially when they're on the come up.

00:56:23 They have no idea what their life is gonna look like

00:56:25 for the next three months.

00:56:26 If they're not working a job,

00:56:28 then they're probably very confused

00:56:30 about where the next paycheck is gonna come

00:56:32 and what that's gonna look like,

00:56:33 whether they'll be able to maintain.

00:56:34 They're probably very anxious about a family life

00:56:40 once they start getting to reaching that point

00:56:42 where people start having a family

00:56:44 or whenever people feel ready to have a family.

00:56:45 They're probably always,

00:56:49 some make amends me, some, you know,

00:56:54 and they're just battling a lot of things like internally.

00:56:57 I think actors, for the most part, I guess are all right,

00:57:00 but then a lot of them are dealing with a lot, you know?

00:57:02 I think there's something about being comfortable

00:57:06 to get up in front of people and be somebody else.

00:57:08 - Mm, ooh, wow.

00:57:12 - Like there's something peculiar about that.

00:57:14 I was having this debate with Aja Lester on set once,

00:57:17 and I've said, in order to be an actor,

00:57:19 you have to be somewhat of a narcissist

00:57:21 because that kind of comfortability

00:57:25 with being applauded by people for a performance.

00:57:30 We're not saving lives.

00:57:32 We're not fighting wars.

00:57:35 We're not feeding the needy.

00:57:37 We're just acting.

00:57:39 But we got applauded more than the people

00:57:43 working for NHS did during lockdown.

00:57:45 Do you know what I mean?

00:57:47 There's something strange about that.

00:57:48 Do you see what I'm saying?

00:57:50 That's probably linked to all of those things

00:57:51 that we deal with internally.

00:57:53 And so I guess my thing, touching on it earlier,

00:57:56 is like I'm not coming up here to sell

00:58:00 what this industry is.

00:58:01 That's not my job.

00:58:02 There's been enough people that have done that

00:58:03 for the lifestyle that they live in

00:58:05 and what people see, what we see.

00:58:06 Like I'm not here to glamorise this thing.

00:58:11 Do you know what I mean?

00:58:11 This thing of ours.

00:58:12 I'm here to kind of just tell you my own experiences

00:58:16 and the realities of my experience,

00:58:20 as well as kind of give an insight

00:58:23 to some of the things required

00:58:24 in order to be able to enter this thing

00:58:27 or to be able to meet certain things

00:58:32 or certain elements of this

00:58:35 without being too taken aback.

00:58:36 Like, wow, I didn't expect this.

00:58:38 Oh, wow, what's this?

00:58:39 You know what I mean?

00:58:39 So yeah, bro, like if I'm being honest with you,

00:58:43 with all of those things that we carry,

00:58:46 I did feel those things.

00:58:48 I did have those experiences

00:58:50 before everything changed.

00:58:51 And you know what's even more crazy?

00:58:53 I still have those experiences.

00:58:54 It doesn't change, bro.

00:58:57 Like that's the other thing.

00:58:58 I think a lot of the time people think

00:58:59 once they achieve their dreams

00:59:01 or once they achieve the things

00:59:02 that they're working towards,

00:59:03 everything changes.

00:59:04 It doesn't.

00:59:06 It's just, it becomes more magnified, you know?

00:59:09 And I think Daniel Kaluuya said it.

00:59:12 He said, "The success is not in the destination.

00:59:14 It's in the journey."

00:59:15 And when he said that, I was like,

00:59:18 oh, that's so easy for you to say.

00:59:20 It's so easy and it's so nice

00:59:22 for people who are in a position of,

00:59:23 seemingly anyway,

00:59:26 in a position of kind of,

00:59:28 who are successful

00:59:31 to be able to have these cute quotes.

00:59:33 But embarking on this journey,

00:59:36 I understand as I've embarked on it a little further,

00:59:39 it's like the success is in overcoming depression,

00:59:43 is in becoming someone who's responsible,

00:59:45 is in becoming someone who can manage situations better,

00:59:48 who can budget better,

00:59:49 who can, do you know what I mean?

00:59:50 All these little milestones

00:59:52 that then make you ready

00:59:54 for that role,

00:59:56 where you are the supporting lead

00:59:58 or where you are the lead

00:59:59 and you do have to carry a shoulder

01:00:01 and you do have to know the lines

01:00:03 and you are expected to be a leader

01:00:05 and you are expected to be able to,

01:00:07 or people expect you to help them

01:00:09 and things change and the people around you change

01:00:11 and you have to know how to handle

01:00:13 all of those things with grace

01:00:14 and maintain

01:00:19 these different, not personas,

01:00:21 but these different elements to you

01:00:23 that different people require.

01:00:24 So, you know, in an interview

01:00:26 or when you're on set

01:00:28 or when you're with your family,

01:00:30 do you know what I'm saying?

01:00:30 And that's just not bestowed upon everybody.

01:00:32 So when you see certain people in a position at times,

01:00:35 they're not just there based off their skillset,

01:00:38 but based on who they are.

01:00:40 Not with everyone, but in some cases.

01:00:43 And so, yeah, I think

01:00:47 that's the side of it that people need to know.

01:00:49 My little brother recently said to me

01:00:53 this year that he wanted to be an actor.

01:00:55 And I remember him coming down,

01:00:59 well, I was away actually,

01:01:00 and he called me whilst I was abroad.

01:01:01 And he said, "When I get back, he wants to speak."

01:01:04 And so that was the conversation.

01:01:07 And essentially, it sounded like

01:01:10 he was asking me for a handout.

01:01:11 And I told him, "You can do one.

01:01:14 "You ain't getting no handout from me.

01:01:15 "You want this, you're gonna have to do it.

01:01:17 "You're gonna have to earn it like me."

01:01:18 And I don't believe in making people suffer for things

01:01:21 just because you might have suffered.

01:01:23 I think it's more about knowing what this industry requires

01:01:26 and whether you have what it takes to handle it.

01:01:30 And I literally sat for about two hours

01:01:35 telling him everything negative about this industry.

01:01:37 And I didn't say one positive thing about it.

01:01:39 And he still was like, "I want this."

01:01:41 And so I think that's the place in which

01:01:44 I kind of wish to kind of,

01:01:48 I guess, ostensibly promote this thing

01:01:53 or kind of relay the thing back to people.

01:01:55 It's like, here's this side of it that we get to see

01:01:59 and we relish in whatever,

01:02:00 but here's this other side of it.

01:02:02 And I guess it's good to know about that side.

01:02:05 (pages flipping)

01:02:07 - Man.

01:02:08 (pages flipping)

01:02:11 Wow.

01:02:12 (pages flipping)

01:02:13 Yeah.

01:02:13 (pages flipping)

01:02:14 Yeah.

01:02:15 (pages flipping)

01:02:16 You've dropped wisdom, the truth, and yeah.

01:02:22 So much insight, man.

01:02:24 I just want to say thank you

01:02:27 because our interviews are like,

01:02:31 they're usually great,

01:02:34 but this one for me, I guess,

01:02:36 it feels different

01:02:39 because I feel like people are always being honest

01:02:44 but I feel like you've been raw

01:02:50 in a professional way,

01:02:53 but it's like, nah, I'll show you the scars

01:02:56 and some of them might still be a bit red.

01:03:00 And I just want to say thank you for that.

01:03:04 It's not lost on me at all, man.

01:03:06 - Of course, bro.

01:03:07 That's our job, man.

01:03:10 Well, it should be anyway, do you know what I mean?

01:03:12 And yeah, I guess, you know,

01:03:16 we all have like different reputations

01:03:17 for different things or whatever.

01:03:19 And then when you meet the person, you're like,

01:03:20 oh, you're usually taken aback

01:03:23 from what you're seeing

01:03:23 or they reaffirm what you already know about them.

01:03:26 And I just think here, it's just

01:03:30 to kind of show the kind of,

01:03:34 or display the type of actor that I am.

01:03:38 Do you know what I mean?

01:03:39 Like, I take this very, very seriously.

01:03:41 Like I've risked my entire life for this thing.

01:03:47 And I think in that, I owe it to the people

01:03:52 that are to come and will see me

01:03:54 and ever be influenced,

01:03:57 even by a percentage by me to know that it's like,

01:04:00 yeah, you can enjoy it when it's time to enjoy it,

01:04:04 we enjoy it.

01:04:04 - Yeah, yeah, sure.

01:04:05 - And we, yeah, you know, you work hard

01:04:09 and you treat it like it's a business.

01:04:13 This is a cold, hard business, bro.

01:04:15 And it's very political

01:04:17 and a lot of it out of your hands,

01:04:18 but all you can do, all we can do is just stay ready.

01:04:22 Stay ready, that's your job is to stay ready

01:04:25 and not get distracted by things

01:04:29 that ultimately don't mean much.

01:04:31 So yeah, man.

01:04:34 - Thank you.

01:04:37 Yeah, that's it for the episode this week.

01:04:40 Thank you.

01:04:40 - Cool, man, thank you.

01:04:42 - Bro, thank you.

01:04:44 I've got one thing to say,

01:04:46 but I have got, there's another segment,

01:04:51 which is really quick,

01:04:52 which I'm just gonna ask you one question, right?

01:04:54 - No, bro, don't rush me, we've got time.

01:04:56 - Thank you.

01:04:59 What advice would you give to yourself five years ago?

01:05:06 - The advice I'd give to myself five years ago

01:05:09 is that no one cares, bro.

01:05:10 No one cares, not really.

01:05:14 So when you do things,

01:05:18 make sure you're doing them

01:05:19 because they're true to you

01:05:22 and make sure you know why you're doing it.

01:05:28 I think mindlessness is the quickest way to just,

01:05:32 I guess, the word I'm thinking of,

01:05:37 the word that comes to mind is like disappointment,

01:05:41 like just being disappointed

01:05:43 when you just act mindlessly.

01:05:44 And by being mindful and being very aware,

01:05:48 can help you, can really aid you

01:05:52 more than we know at times.

01:05:54 And so yeah, know why you're doing things.

01:06:01 Are you doing things because it's in you

01:06:04 and it's who you are

01:06:05 and it's towards the greater good for yourself

01:06:11 or is it because you're doing it for some other reason

01:06:15 because you're influenced by something

01:06:17 or so on and so forth.

01:06:19 And yeah, I think that and just don't get complacent.

01:06:26 Don't get complacent.

01:06:28 - Amazing, thank you.

01:06:31 - Yeah, so yeah, bro, you know what?

01:06:34 Yeah, I just wanna say first and foremost,

01:06:37 I know I've said it already, but thank you.

01:06:39 Like you've done, you know, as you were speaking, right?

01:06:44 I felt like there's a space in the industry

01:06:48 that like, dare I not say that you should occupy,

01:06:59 but I saw a space where I'm like, hold on,

01:07:02 there's no one, there's no,

01:07:04 what we're speaking about hasn't been spoken about.

01:07:09 I feel like it hasn't been covered

01:07:11 in the way that you covered it.

01:07:14 Like people talk a lot about,

01:07:16 like I hear a lot about the mental struggles,

01:07:20 but it's like we touch on it

01:07:22 and then it's on to the next question, right?

01:07:25 But what I think was really special about what you said

01:07:30 is like the real realities of being in the industry,

01:07:36 but then also like the mental issues of coming from ends

01:07:43 and being thrown into a place that this is your dream,

01:07:48 but your dream doesn't exist in a place

01:07:52 that is constructed in the same way as your environment.

01:07:56 And what that mentally does to a person.

01:08:02 And I'm like, as you were speaking, I was like,

01:08:05 oh my days, where's the protection?

01:08:08 Do we need to make a support group?

01:08:10 Like what is that?

01:08:13 'Cause what you went through is,

01:08:14 like I've been through that when like,

01:08:17 I've worked in different places, right?

01:08:21 But that is like, as you were speaking, I saw it.

01:08:28 I'm like, hold on.

01:08:29 So you decided not to go to uni, right?

01:08:33 And you're figuring it out and you're working.

01:08:35 And that comes with its own pressures

01:08:37 because if your family want you to go to uni

01:08:41 because it's like academic and da, da, da, da, da,

01:08:43 the majority of your friends have gone to uni.

01:08:46 So while it feels like their life's progressing,

01:08:49 you're working in a theater

01:08:51 and it feels like your life is stagnant.

01:08:54 - This is exactly it, bro.

01:08:55 That's exactly it.

01:09:00 Yeah, literally, like literally, nail in the head.

01:09:03 You feel like you're regressing.

01:09:05 Bro, like I remember not wanting to even take the bus

01:09:10 'cause I didn't want no one to see me, bro.

01:09:12 Like, yeah, bro, like I was always broke.

01:09:15 I was always broke.

01:09:16 I, yeah, it just felt like everyone was doing things.

01:09:24 And I was just literally wasting away.

01:09:27 And I remember my mom,

01:09:30 'cause my mom had gone to Congo,

01:09:31 like one of them years and whatever it's, bro, like,

01:09:33 and the kind of feeling isolated from your friends,

01:09:36 not only from your friends, but from your family as well,

01:09:38 meant that I didn't want to go and see them.

01:09:40 So, I mean, I was, at the time, I wasn't the greatest cook.

01:09:42 I didn't really know how to kind of like

01:09:44 make meals and stuff.

01:09:45 So, not having money or whatever.

01:09:46 There were days where I wasn't even really eating.

01:09:48 And, you know, not going out and wasting away

01:09:52 and just making all kinds of decisions, bro.

01:09:55 Like, you know, I felt like I was just taking steps back,

01:09:58 steps back, steps back, steps back.

01:10:00 And yeah, like I genuinely, that was only like 25% of it.

01:10:05 And I still blabbed loads.

01:10:07 So, yeah, I think in what you're saying

01:10:11 and what comes to mind,

01:10:12 I just try to be real, bro.

01:10:14 Like genuinely, I'm not on this, what this industry gives.

01:10:20 This industry, it's done, though, and it's now,

01:10:22 we're just trying to--

01:10:23 - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:10:24 - Hold on, let me stop the recording, hold on.

01:10:25 - No, it's cool, it's cool.

01:10:26 It's all good.

01:10:27 - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but no, it is done.

01:10:28 It is done.

01:10:29 It is done, it's done, it's done, yeah, yeah.

01:10:31 - Yeah, it's like, just in that, like, you know,

01:10:35 I'm not really here to sell the image, bro.

01:10:37 Like, believe me, I like enjoyment.

01:10:40 I like, you know, you know, I guess,

01:10:43 doing things in a way that always seems like,

01:10:45 it's quite mysterious and quite cool and quite suave.

01:10:50 And, you know, but I'm also in,

01:10:53 I guess it depends on the setting.

01:10:55 It depends on who I'm talking to.

01:10:56 - Yeah.

01:10:57 - Depends what the audience is,

01:10:58 depends on what the purpose of this is.

01:11:00 And I know that your platform is really big, man.

01:11:01 And it's not lost on me that the aim is to,

01:11:06 to get people to really understand what this thing about.

01:11:11 I call it like, it's the mafia, like this thing of us,

01:11:14 like what this thing of us really is.

01:11:16 And if it helps, cool, then, you know,

01:11:20 I've done my job in some, to some extent,

01:11:23 but I'm not here to sell the image of what this is, bro.

01:11:26 Like, or what seemingly is, you know what I mean?

01:11:29 - I love it.

01:11:30 And do you know what?

01:11:31 You touched on one of the things I was gonna say, right?

01:11:34 In terms of like, I, bro, I would not,

01:11:39 I didn't realize this was you,

01:11:42 because from your Instagram, it doesn't, it-

01:11:47 - It looks like I'm having a good time all the time,

01:11:49 isn't it?

01:11:50 - Yeah. And you know, that mysterious thing

01:11:52 where it's like, I guess there's two things, right?

01:11:56 People that don't post loads,

01:11:58 and when they post, it's like cool pictures,

01:12:01 but then also you're great friends with Tom, innit?

01:12:05 And Tom is like, he is like the socialite,

01:12:11 hipster, actor, creative kind of thing.

01:12:16 So then it looks and feels like that.

01:12:21 So that's, and I guess that-

01:12:26 - It's quite confusing, I guess, yeah.

01:12:29 Or yeah, I think, I get that quite often, really,

01:12:33 like from different people, when they sit down with me,

01:12:35 they're like, you're really not who I thought you'd be.

01:12:39 I didn't imagine you'd be like this.

01:12:40 And I think-

01:12:42 - No way to put it.

01:12:44 - Yeah. My girlfriend says it to me often.

01:12:47 She's like, you know what you're really good at?

01:12:48 You're really good at making people feel

01:12:50 like they know you, but they don't really know you

01:12:53 until they sit with you and they're like,

01:12:54 yo, you're different.

01:12:55 And I think it's not intentional.

01:12:59 - Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:13:01 - But I think it's just that Tom likes to capture a lot

01:13:04 and he captures a lot.

01:13:05 He captures us in our different elements.

01:13:09 And I think, bro, you've got to bear in mind,

01:13:13 I'm still growing.

01:13:14 Like, you know, when I did "Barbershop",

01:13:15 I was in my early twenties.

01:13:18 I was like 22, 23.

01:13:19 And, you know, I'm nearly 30 now.

01:13:21 I'm 28. Do you know what I mean?

01:13:22 So I've grown, I've like, I've aged and matured

01:13:26 and grown, matured, like in front of people.

01:13:30 And so that's another thing I feel like people

01:13:32 that are child actors don't get the luxury of,

01:13:35 of being able to change as one would change

01:13:39 without people having an opinion on you.

01:13:43 And yeah, like anything like this,

01:13:49 you can use as well whenever you feel like.

01:13:51 - Yeah, yeah, yeah. All good, all good.

01:13:52 - Yeah, yeah, you don't get that.

01:13:55 They just don't get the luxury of being able to change

01:13:58 when adults or when people change,

01:14:02 whether it's relative to age or circumstance or whatever.

01:14:05 And so what I find for myself is just that I'm like,

01:14:08 you know what?

01:14:09 If I'm in a setting where I'm supposed to have a good time,

01:14:12 we'll have a good time.

01:14:13 - Yeah, great.

01:14:14 - But if the setting changes,

01:14:19 then I adapt to what the setting is

01:14:22 and what the setting requires me to be without,

01:14:25 without, I guess, changing who I am.

01:14:29 - Yeah, like in a real way.

01:14:30 - Yeah, yeah.

01:14:31 And a lot of that is actually credit to,

01:14:34 I feel like, you know, in life,

01:14:36 we get what we call destiny helpers.

01:14:38 And these are people that are designed

01:14:42 or put into your life to help the train move further forward

01:14:46 or keep it moving forward.

01:14:50 And I felt like the reason why Vicky McClure and I,

01:14:53 it seems that we have a very good,

01:14:55 I've been told that we have a very interesting

01:14:58 online presence and on-screen presence

01:15:00 and chemistry and stuff like that.

01:15:01 But that's a genuine, very, very close family friend of mine.

01:15:06 Now it's like a sister to me.

01:15:08 And one thing I learned from her wasn't,

01:15:11 I mean, wasn't benefiting of just working off Vicky McClure.

01:15:19 What I took from her was how she is as a person.

01:15:23 And as a person, the woman is, the lady, excuse me,

01:15:27 is second to none, bro.

01:15:31 Like just in the way that she conducts herself

01:15:35 in with everything surrounding her,

01:15:37 and, you know, wherever, where she is,

01:15:41 she just, I've seen people who have less do more,

01:15:46 if that makes sense.

01:15:47 - Wow.

01:15:47 - And I think it's very humbling,

01:15:52 being around her is very humbling.

01:15:54 It's very, very humbling.

01:15:56 She's done really well in her life.

01:15:58 And she's very grateful.

01:15:59 She's very successful, but she's also very grateful,

01:16:01 but she's very graceful.

01:16:02 - Hmm.

01:16:03 - She's very graceful, bro.

01:16:06 And I think it just taught me,

01:16:09 it just taught me that there is a way to be,

01:16:12 there is a way to do this thing.

01:16:15 There is a way.

01:16:19 And the way that we look at,

01:16:21 the way that I've kind of known it to be,

01:16:27 I won't put it on everyone,

01:16:28 the way that I've kind of known it to be

01:16:30 is that always it's to overcompensate.

01:16:31 It's to always seemingly have more.

01:16:35 - Yep.

01:16:35 - But in actuality, you have less,

01:16:39 whether that's internally,

01:16:40 whether that's externally or whatever,

01:16:42 is to seem like you have more,

01:16:44 but you actually have less.

01:16:45 But with being, by being around her and other,

01:16:48 and then other people,

01:16:49 and a couple of my friends around me,

01:16:51 in that batch of people,

01:16:53 like Tom, being around Tom and that,

01:16:55 and just my friends from home,

01:16:56 it's like I learned that it's the opposite, bro, man.

01:17:00 It's the opposite.

01:17:01 And no one cares about anything other than the work.

01:17:04 You might be able to get into this party.

01:17:06 You might be able to be seen in this picture.

01:17:08 No one cares.

01:17:09 No one really cares.

01:17:11 The ones that we respect are the ones who work, ultimately.

01:17:15 That's all that matters.

01:17:17 I got told that by a friend of mine a while ago.

01:17:19 He's like an older brother of mine.

01:17:21 He said to me, "We don't care unless you're working."

01:17:24 Unless you're working.

01:17:27 And not necessarily that you're in a TV show

01:17:29 or you're wherever.

01:17:29 It's like, as in, this is someone

01:17:32 who all they care about when it comes to being,

01:17:35 when it comes to the public,

01:17:37 is that they see their work.

01:17:40 I don't want to be an actor that's popular or famous.

01:17:44 I just, when you see and you hear

01:17:46 that Eric Chango name, you go,

01:17:48 "That guy is a cold-arse actor.

01:17:52 He's a professional.

01:17:53 He knows his thing."

01:17:55 When you hear his name alongside other actors,

01:17:57 you're like, "Ooh, I need to go and watch that.

01:17:58 Ooh, yeah, that is going to be cold.

01:18:02 That is going to be the thing to see.

01:18:05 That's going to be the thing to watch

01:18:06 because he's a craftsman."

01:18:09 Do you see what I'm saying?

01:18:11 And so I could care less about everything else, bro.

01:18:15 And let me not lie to you.

01:18:16 At one point I did care.

01:18:17 I cared about everything, everything.

01:18:20 And this is another thing that people don't show you.

01:18:22 They show you the side of them that's changed and evolved.

01:18:25 Do you know what I mean?

01:18:27 And I hear it because we always want to show

01:18:30 the best version of ourselves,

01:18:31 but I think there's so much beauty in being able to explain

01:18:35 and kind of help divulge, help people to, yeah,

01:18:38 divulge on what the, I guess,

01:18:41 the previous version of yourself was like.

01:18:46 And so, yeah, bro, like I used to care a lot about my image

01:18:51 and I used to want to be seen and that's like, you know,

01:18:54 and it's an ongoing battle.

01:18:56 There's levels to it.

01:18:57 There's levels to how much we care,

01:19:00 but I just realised that that's empty

01:19:03 and it has no longevity, no substance.

01:19:05 So it's about the other way around.

01:19:09 We're taught to always look,

01:19:12 like focus on the external within,

01:19:14 but it's the other way around.

01:19:16 And longevity is inside out, inside out,

01:19:20 work on the inside out.

01:19:21 And in learning that,

01:19:24 I just don't care about certain things anymore, literally.

01:19:29 And I think that's applicable to everybody

01:19:32 across so many different industries.

01:19:35 It's not just acting.

01:19:36 It's not just acting.

01:19:37 It's anything, down to a project manager, bro.

01:19:40 Like, honestly, we only care about the work.

01:19:44 And as you get better, the work gets better.

01:19:46 - Eden, you have said so much good stuff.

01:19:53 I feel like, I love what you said about growing up, right?

01:19:58 In public, because that made me feel like,

01:20:04 you know what, you see that mysterious thing,

01:20:09 or just really, it's not that,

01:20:11 it's like, you just don't post loads.

01:20:13 That's it.

01:20:14 And then when you do, it's like a good picture.

01:20:16 That's like stylish.

01:20:17 That's the way it is, right?

01:20:19 And I feel like you should actually,

01:20:22 this is just my perception.

01:20:25 I'm not telling you what to do.

01:20:26 But when you said that, it's like,

01:20:28 actually, you should protect that

01:20:31 until you're ready to speak

01:20:35 or like however you want in.

01:20:39 'Cause what you're saying, I'm like,

01:20:42 oh my days, they need this.

01:20:44 But then whoever is like that,

01:20:49 there's a place you have to be.

01:20:52 Yeah, it's just very interesting.

01:20:56 'Cause I was like, yeah, no, do you know what?

01:20:58 Protect who you are,

01:20:59 because like you said, it's about the work.

01:21:01 If people get you, that's a bonus.

01:21:05 And when they get you,

01:21:08 because like from you speaking,

01:21:11 I hear a lot of passion.

01:21:12 So if and when they get you, it's on you.

01:21:16 Like no one, 'cause my position is like,

01:21:19 oh man, you should say more.

01:21:20 It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no.

01:21:22 - Yeah, a lot of this is timing, bro, man.

01:21:24 A lot of this is timing.

01:21:26 I think I've got the blessing and the curse

01:21:33 of being around a lot of successful people

01:21:36 very early on in my career, even before it started.

01:21:40 And the blessing is that the possibility is there.

01:21:44 It's that close.

01:21:45 It's one person away.

01:21:47 Proximity is everything.

01:21:49 However close you are to something influences

01:21:52 the likelihood that you can achieve it as well.

01:21:58 But I think depending on where you're,

01:22:00 how your heart is set up at the time

01:22:02 can affect how you go about it.

01:22:09 'Cause you might be coming straight,

01:22:10 incredibly overzealous,

01:22:11 or you might become too self-conscious,

01:22:15 or you might be acting out of haste

01:22:18 and out of fear and scarcity,

01:22:20 rather than a place of comfortability,

01:22:22 abundance and self-assurance.

01:22:24 And so in being around,

01:22:27 'cause I'm talking some extremely successful people, bro.

01:22:30 Like I'm just like, as a human,

01:22:33 you're like, oh, it must be nice, bro.

01:22:35 Or like, oh, when is it my turn?

01:22:37 Or where did that person get that over anything?

01:22:41 Or are they better than me?

01:22:42 And all these people, everyone has had these questions.

01:22:46 And I guess it's about,

01:22:50 it's okay to feel these things, you know?

01:22:51 That's another thing.

01:22:53 It's actually okay to think and feel these things.

01:22:55 I think where it becomes a little bit more dangerous

01:22:59 or where it can be dangerous

01:23:00 is how you act on those impulses.

01:23:04 We're humans.

01:23:05 And we're living in an age where

01:23:07 if I wanna find out who you are,

01:23:09 I can type your name in somewhere

01:23:12 and find out who you are.

01:23:13 That is insane, bro.

01:23:15 If I wanted to find out about a random guy in Malaysia,

01:23:18 I can find a Malaysian name,

01:23:20 type it in and something will come up.

01:23:22 Do you get what I mean?

01:23:23 And it's like that level of access

01:23:26 has made it so much harder for people

01:23:28 to focus on what is in front of them.

01:23:30 And so naturally, that brings about comparison

01:23:36 and judgment and questions and critiques on oneself.

01:23:39 And it's like, nah, brother,

01:23:40 you don't have to do all of that, man.

01:23:43 Do you know what I mean?

01:23:43 Know that you're enough, you know?

01:23:45 Know that you're enough.

01:23:45 And whatever makes you uniquely you

01:23:48 will shine in the way that it needs to

01:23:51 so long as you're focused on that

01:23:57 and not the things that can influence it

01:23:59 or the relationship that you can have

01:24:01 that will highlight that or whatever.

01:24:03 Nah, bro, everything in its time.

01:24:04 You might not be ready to be the lead in Top Wear.

01:24:07 You might not be ready to be The Shame.

01:24:10 You might not be ready to be Stringer Bell.

01:24:12 You might not be ready to literally go and be,

01:24:16 oh no, the character that played the guy in Moonlight

01:24:20 or whatever.

01:24:21 You might not be.

01:24:21 Not because you're not a sick actor.

01:24:24 Do you get what I mean?

01:24:25 It's because of all of the other things that come with it.

01:24:27 So yeah, man, I think for me, learning that

01:24:33 and just getting to peace with all of that helps.

01:24:36 It's helped me and just it is what it is.

01:24:39 When it happens, it happens.

01:24:40 And if it don't, I've done my thing anyway,

01:24:43 but I can bow out, bro.

01:24:44 I'm good.

01:24:45 Do you know what I mean?

01:24:46 At the end of the day, do you get what I'm saying?

01:24:48 Man's made my family proud.

01:24:50 I'm me.

01:24:52 Like, I'm not somebody else.

01:24:55 Like, I'm still myself.

01:24:57 So it gives the right to us, bro.

01:25:00 And I genuinely like, I think when you,

01:25:04 when you, in saying just that bit there,

01:25:06 when you really know it, when you really believe it,

01:25:08 and it's not just, it's not a soundbite.

01:25:11 Yes, yes, yes.

01:25:13 And that's what that whole thing about success

01:25:16 is in the journey is about.

01:25:18 It's like, bro, you've come to this place.

01:25:20 Like literally, like genuinely, not,

01:25:23 it's not a facade or farcical.

01:25:26 Like you've come to this place, sick.

01:25:28 Everything else is just a bonus then.

01:25:31 If you land a huge role, it's a bonus

01:25:32 'cause you don't care.

01:25:33 You just don't care.

01:25:35 You don't care about it.

01:25:37 Do you know what I mean?

01:25:37 It's just a by-product.

01:25:38 So I think, yeah, man, I know that seemingly,

01:25:45 I seem like this guy, like, you know,

01:25:47 via other people anyway,

01:25:48 I seem like I'm always getting lit and whatever.

01:25:50 No, I'm having a great time.

01:25:53 And yeah, I mean, just 'cause, you know,

01:25:55 like we're young and everything has a time and a place.

01:25:57 Enjoy yourself or whatever.

01:25:58 But I'm also a workman.

01:26:00 And there's also days where I don't do work, bro.

01:26:02 There's days where I just don't do fair work, bro.

01:26:04 Like I sit on my arse and play PlayStation all day, bro.

01:26:08 I get fat like eating Chinese

01:26:11 at like 10 o'clock at night, bro.

01:26:12 But then I'll enter a mode for six months.

01:26:15 I'm in the gym at 7am, 6am.

01:26:17 Yeah, it's life, bro.

01:26:23 Like it's a rollercoaster

01:26:24 of different circumstances, emotions and realities, bro.

01:26:29 So you can't watch the next man.

01:26:31 You just can't, like genuinely, you can't, bro.

01:26:34 And I know it's easy to say that being where I am,

01:26:39 but if I show you where the people around me are,

01:26:43 it isn't easy.

01:26:44 It isn't easy to say that.

01:26:46 So everyone just needs to kind of focus on themselves, man.

01:26:50 And care less about what people think.

01:26:54 - Wow.

01:26:55 My bro, God bless you, man.

01:26:58 That is, yeah.

01:26:59 - Thank you, man.

01:27:00 - This is good.

01:27:01 Thank you!

01:27:03 (upbeat music)

01:27:05 (upbeat music)

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