Former Gonzaga All-American Dan Dickau breaks down Anton Watson's breakout game against UCLA, Gonzaga's outlook on the season after the Maui Invitational and the rest of the WCC's ups and downs in nonconference play
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00:00 Hey, everybody. We welcome you back to another episode of the Gonzaga Nation podcast. Christian
00:03 Pedersen joined by Dan Dickout. You're catching us on a WCC weekly episode. That is where
00:08 we discuss Gonzaga basketball as always, but through the context of everything that is
00:14 going on across the WCC so that you guys that want to stay in the know can stay up to date
00:19 on everything that every other team is doing and how it impacts Gonzaga season. As always,
00:24 Dan is here to impart us with the takeaways that he has seen directly from the games that
00:30 he has been at as well as just from what he's been watching. Because I know that Dan is
00:34 low key just as addicted to college basketball as I am. I see his tweets. We see his social
00:39 media posts. He has thoughts about this 24/7. Dan, let's start with the Gonzaga side and
00:44 then we will move from there. I am contractually obligated to follow producers' notes and ask
00:52 you about the UCLA win from this season. Is Anton Watson really... Was that his coming
01:01 out party? There's a whole nice flowery note and a way to ask this question. I will also
01:07 maybe say, "Ouch." As an UCLA alumni, it hurts that we want to call this a rivalry between
01:15 us, but we keep losing to Gonzaga in horrible, brutal, national public ways. Is Morgan's
01:22 Gonzaga shining and UCLA failing? I'm trying to be an apologist for my alumni. Nobody wants
01:26 this on this show, but I have to say it because I have suffered now for numerous years of
01:31 Gonzaga saying to UCLA, "No, no, no, no. The West Coast is ours," and doing it in really
01:36 dramatic fashion. The Anton Watson part of the question is, was that his coming out party?
01:43 Is he the real deal, national player type vaulting of the name to the conversation?
01:49 Also, how good is this Gonzaga team out the gate so far from what you've seen?
01:54 The first part about Anton, one of the things about him is he's always adhered to whatever
02:01 Gonzaga needed to win, whether that was a defensive role, whether that was a rebounding
02:07 role. On the offensive end, it's always been a secondary, "I'm just going to swing it,
02:14 move it to the second side. I'm going to set screens. I'm going to be a cutter. I'm going
02:18 to be opportunistic in transition." What you're seeing is something that I know the
02:24 coaching staffs wanted more from him at times over the course of his career. He showed flashes.
02:29 He showed potential, but sometimes it's hard to actually go for it. I'm not saying he doesn't
02:37 want it. I'm just saying sometimes it's hard to go for it when you have other truly great
02:41 players around you. The last few years, Drew Timmy, Julian Strother would have been in
02:47 the mix last year for being a go-to type of guy. Before that, Nemhart. Before that, even
02:53 Jalen Suggs, Chad Holmgren. He's always had other guys that he's had to take a back seat
03:00 to. He's always had the potential. There are some things I'd like to see him do better,
03:05 as I'm sure the staff would and he would as well. He's a more consistent shooter, put
03:11 the ball on the deck a little bit better. All in all, he's an extremely talented player
03:16 that has put his own stats and his own acclaim on the back burner many, many times to be
03:24 able to impact winning. You have to appreciate that one. Then when you look at, is that a
03:30 coming out party? Yeah, it could be in a certain way as far as nationally. I know he's known
03:36 as a glue guy, but maybe now he can be looked at from other perspectives as a really good
03:42 player, not just a glue guy. That 32-point game against UCLA, 14-15 from the field, we're
03:48 not going to see that replicated. Would I like to see another 30-point game from Anton?
03:53 Absolutely. That was a near perfect game. 14-15 from the field, perfect three of three
03:58 beyond the three-point line. He was tremendous in all facets. I think what it does is, I
04:05 hope it does, is it gives him confidence that, you know what, he can perform at a very high
04:11 level offensively against a very good team like UCLA. There's going to be other times
04:17 that it's needed throughout the course of this year. I think that's the answer for the
04:22 Anton part. As far as the Gonzaga, where are they at? You get out of Maui, although it's
04:28 played in Honolulu this year, two and one. The only loss was against Purdue, which they
04:34 were, I don't want to say they were in control of the game in the first half, but they played
04:38 well. They were up five. Purdue was just really much better than them in the second half.
04:44 A lot of that had to do with the fact that Gonzaga had a few too many turnovers at bad
04:48 moments. They also didn't shoot the ball well at all from the three-point line. I think
04:52 they missed 16 in a row at one point from behind the arc. But you got to give Purdue
04:58 credit. I mean, they're now the number one ranked team in the country for a reason. But
05:02 Gonzaga then handled business after that. Syracuse, another one of your alma maters,
05:06 didn't know what to expect with new head coach Adrian Autry, but offensively, Gonzaga was
05:13 much better, especially in the second half. And then UCLA, I still think that's a great
05:20 rivalry game to a certain extent. If they can play that every year or every other year
05:24 moving forward, that would be great. But that was one of the ugliest college games I've
05:29 seen a long time just because of the amount of fouls throughout that game.
05:34 Yeah, lots of notes. But working backwards to the front, since being hired by Gonzaga
05:41 Nation, you guys are five and 0 all time against my alma maters. So, Coach Few and Dan Beach,
05:49 take that how you will. I'm welcome to be a lifetime employee of Gonzaga in exchange
05:54 for you guys having a guaranteed running of the chalk against everybody. Gonzaga or everybody
06:01 UCLA and Syracuse related. Going backwards, the team wise, you can give credit to Purdue
06:06 all you want. It also just sometimes you take losses to big name. Like that to me falls
06:11 in totally the if you end a season with three or four losses and that's one of them. Great,
06:15 fine. 100 percent. That is not a worry. Going back to Anton, I my question is and maybe
06:22 this is getting a little too in the hypothetical weeds was if he had gone, say, G League route
06:29 straight out of high school or something more like professional, would he have gotten that
06:32 same time and patience to develop the way you've described in the college setting where
06:36 he got to be the back burner for a couple of years? He got to be the role player and
06:40 now he has grown because I think that. You know, in the in the world of of of they're
06:46 getting rid of the one and done deal and like what is the point of college basketball versus
06:51 NBA development? To me, this is the textbook example of you give a guy a couple of years
06:56 to sit in the secondary shadows, wings, bench, whatever you want to call it, but then can
07:01 mature and grow and develop after learning from really great NBA headed talent. And he
07:07 will be a better basketball player because of taking those two years. Yes. Well, I mean,
07:13 you got to look at it in a couple of different ways. I mean, everybody, unfortunately, in
07:19 this day and age of sports in the 24 hour media cycle, they want instant production.
07:25 And that is, to be honest with you, that's impossible unless you're a complete outlier.
07:32 And, you know, not enough. Fans have patience with players to produce, not enough coaches
07:39 have patience with players to produce, not enough coaches or fans have patience with
07:45 coaches to get the players to produce. There's this never ending cycle of wanting it now.
07:50 When you look back at Anton and his high school career, he and Jaden McDaniels were the two
07:55 best players in the state coming out of high school that year. Now you see Jaden McDaniels,
07:59 one of the best up and coming defensive players in the NBA, you know, for the Minnesota Timberwolves,
08:06 just signed a massive offseason deal that's going to keep him at the NBA level for a long
08:12 time. But, you know, Anton was talked in those circles. But Anton's offense was behind Jaden
08:18 McDaniels in high school. And, you know, it's it goes back to finding fits and what can
08:24 maybe allow you to get to what a lot of people perceive as the end goal is the NBA. Yes,
08:30 everybody wants to get the NBA, but it also doesn't mean you're going to make it. And
08:35 you also have to figure out what's best for you and your player development to make, give
08:39 you yourself a chance to get there. For Jaden McDaniels, he was one year at UW and off to
08:44 the NBA. As mentioned for Anton, you know, he came into a situation at Gonzaga where
08:51 they were a much more balanced team. They didn't need him to score. They didn't just
08:55 kind of hand him the ball and say, go for it, where you were kind of spotlight in front
08:59 of NBA executives many times. Now, he also got hurt early in his career. He also has
09:08 had to play behind guys as far as, you know, importance of role to score the basketball.
09:14 I still think Anton's going to get a legitimate shot at the NBA. Whether or not he makes it
09:20 is to be determined. But it goes back to my point of fans want it now, but everybody's
09:25 cycle and path is different. Jaden McDaniels, as mentioned, they were kind of the two best
09:30 players in the high school at the time. Their skill sets were completely different and their
09:35 paths were different. And it doesn't mean one is right or wrong. Maybe Anton valued
09:42 being a part of a college program that allowed him to play deep into NCAA tournaments, whereas
09:48 Jaden maybe had the thought process of, I do want to only be in school for a short amount
09:53 of time as possible, get to the NBA, because that's what he wanted. And, you know, with
09:58 the NIL now, it gives players who maybe are like an Anton that aren't fast tracked to
10:07 get to the end goal. It gives them the ability to slow down that decision making process,
10:12 not go too soon, because you can still make a little bit, or I would imagine in Anton's
10:17 case, a lot of money this year because of all the commercials that he's on in Spokane,
10:22 the ability to kind of, you know, trust the process, trust the race and be ready when
10:27 it's your time, because everybody's ready for that level at a different time.
10:32 You guys want more on Anton, check out the interview that he and Dan did in studio. It's
10:36 really an interesting listen. I mean, you talk some basketball, but you also find out
10:41 that Anton and Drew Timmy still playing video games together online. And it's just all in
10:46 all a really good watch and or listen. However, you end up consuming it. Dan is doing a bunch
10:51 of really good stuff, a bunch of amazing stuff in the studio under selling it with the word
10:54 good there. Apologies, Dan, enough on Anton and the team. Can we move around to the rest
10:59 of the WCC? Let's do it. All right. Let's talk about St. Mary's because for the last
11:03 couple of years, they have been hot on Gonzaga's tail up at the top of the WCC this year. They
11:09 seem to be stumbling out the gate. I'm curious. Are you hitting the panic button? Are you
11:14 selling the St. Mary's stock? Is the ship going to get righted? What have you seen from
11:19 your point of view? Well, look, you know, years ago, you know, people kind of question
11:27 St. Mary's because they would play a really easy non-conference schedule. Very rarely
11:33 would they leave Moraga and they would be, you know, ten and one, ten and two heading
11:38 into the conference season. And then, you know, some of those warts would be exposed
11:44 in the in the non-conference. There was a couple of years I know that that you when
11:48 you looked at the number of wins, you said they should have been in the NCAA tournament.
11:52 But the body of work, you know, with the Ken Palm rankings in the net really didn't validate
11:59 them being in the league or sorry, in the NCAA tournament. Well, they've really fixed
12:04 that. Discrepancy of scheduling and they've scheduled a lot better over the last few years.
12:11 And this year they scheduled appropriately, they scheduled some really good opponents
12:15 that would be looked at as as great wins in the non-conference. And unfortunately, it's
12:21 gone against them a little bit in those games. And then it's also hurt them because they
12:26 had a loss that, you know, quite frankly, is inexcusable at home. The loss to Weber
12:32 State is a difficult one to take. San Diego State, they lose and that's a little bit more
12:38 acceptable. San Diego State obviously was in the national title game a season ago. They're
12:41 still very good. They lost to Xavier out of the Big East, you know, but then they lost
12:47 to Utah just the other day. And Utah will be kind of middle of the pack in the Pac-12.
12:53 You know, if I told you Utah was an NCAA tournament team right now, I think I would be selling
12:59 you a bag of goods. But at the end of the day, at the end of the season, they have pieces
13:03 where maybe they could make the NCAA tournament if they get enough of the correct wins in
13:07 league play. But things don't get any easier for St. Mary's in this next 12 days or so.
13:13 12, 15 days. They're at Boise. They play Boise State in Idaho Falls coming up at the end
13:23 of the week. Yeah, December 1st. And they play a really good Colorado State as well.
13:29 On the road in Fort Collins, December 9th. So, you know, you're looking at a very talented
13:36 team in St. Mary's that hasn't got things done. I mean, say for example, they lose to
13:42 Boise State.
13:43 They lose to Boise State in between the two teams there. So there's just to give people
13:45 the next four for St. Mary's, they're going to be at Boise State, as Dan mentioned, home
13:50 then versus Cleveland State at number 20 Colorado State, then home versus UNLV.
13:57 And UNLV is a quietly good team. I mean, I think they're middle of the pack of the Mountain
14:04 West, but they play very well in big games. I think Kevin Kruger does a really nice job
14:11 down there, but it's going to be one of those things where I hate to say it, but St. Mary's
14:18 got to get some wins in a hurry. And I think when you look at it, I haven't watched them
14:22 in extended stretches to pinpoint a couple things that would really be helpful.
14:27 But when you just look at the overall stats, they're not shooting the ball the way most
14:31 St. Mary's teams have shot it in the past, around 42% from the field, around 31% from
14:37 three. When you think about St. Mary's, you think about an efficient offensive basketball
14:43 team, a team that doesn't turn it over, that shoots high 40s, close to 50% from the field
14:50 and high 30s from three. And that's not the case. And when you don't shoot the ball well,
14:54 I don't care how good you can be defensively, it's hard to win basketball games. So all
15:00 the negatives being tossed out and thrown out there, St. Mary's is still talented. And
15:06 they are going to have to turn things around quickly if they're going to earn a at-large
15:11 bid, but they're going to have plenty of opportunities to bolster their resume with the upcoming
15:16 schedule for them, as well as league. I mean, they play Gonzaga as well as anybody. These
15:21 two programs know each other extremely well. So I would not be surprised if they get back
15:28 in the NCAA conversation in a hurry.
15:31 Let's play a little worst case scenario and say they go 50/50 on the games that you labeled
15:36 as got to win, got to win in a hurry type situations. Does this end up overall hurting
15:41 the WCC? Last couple of years, we've been talking more and more about WCC being a better
15:46 and better represented team in the postseason. Is there a team that maybe can fill in that
15:52 gap as someone else has been hot out the gate? Or is this just overall just going to be a
15:57 little bit of a detractor mathematically to the WCC's power?
16:02 Well, I think the WCC is at a little bit of a disappointing non-conference when you think
16:06 about it. I mean, you wouldn't expect St. Mary's to be at three and four. You wouldn't
16:10 expect some of the losses to have occurred in this non-conference. I mean, Portland loses
16:15 to crosstown arrival from the big sky at Portland State last night on a buzzer beater. You've
16:24 let some opportunities slide where the league really could have been bolstered. Now, San
16:28 Francisco and Santa Clara, I think are holding their end of the bargain up right now. I mean,
16:36 San Francisco, they just beat Big Ten Minnesota the other day. They could easily be seven
16:40 and oh. Their two losses are Boise State and Grand Canyon, two borderline NCAA tournament
16:44 teams. So they could be seven and oh, but they're doing their best to help the league.
16:51 Santa Clara's sitting at six and one. They've beaten a couple Pac-12 teams, although they're
16:55 Oregon, who's banged up with injuries, and I think Stanford they've beaten as well. But
17:02 San Diego is surprising at five and two, although when you look at what they've done, they haven't
17:07 played a very difficult schedule to add all. I mean, their two losses are UC San Diego
17:15 and Hawaii. But when you look at the other wins, nothing jumps out at you as difficult
17:20 right there. But a win's a win, especially in early in Steve Lavin's tenure in San Diego.
17:26 Well, it would feel for USD maybe that almost what jumps out there is just finally the consistency.
17:31 And finally, finding a rhythm, because I think some of the knock on USD the last couple years
17:36 is they've just been really challenged with a tough schedule that does not allow them
17:41 as a team to find a rhythm and a routine and identity. When I go back, though, and talk
17:45 about Santa Clara, because I think that it may be glossed over something there that they
17:50 are doing really well against the Pac-12 heroines against Oregon at Stanford.
17:54 They have a third Pac-12 team coming up with Cal on December 2nd. They will also play New
18:01 Mexico on December 9th. So that's a common opponent with Santa Clara or with St. Mary's,
18:07 who we were talking earlier. I'm curious, is Santa Clara now the distinguished kind
18:12 of like the number two up there with Gonzaga chasing? Are they identifiable? It's kind
18:18 of Gonzaga, Santa Clara than everyone else. Yeah, I mean, I'm not ready to close the door
18:22 on St. Mary's by any stretch, although they got to they got to turn things around pretty
18:26 quickly before they get in the league. But I really like San Francisco. They've got a
18:32 nice mix. Jonathan Mobo on the interior has been a tremendous surprise. He's really good.
18:39 Top 10 in the country field goal percentage. Ryan Beasley is a really good freshman guard
18:44 who can score it. And then Shirov Jamps, the transfer that we've talked about from Dayton,
18:48 I think is doing a nice job of blending with Marcus Williams, who's playing really well
18:53 this year for Santa Clara. You know, they've done this the last couple of years, like all
18:59 of you don't know what to expect. Jaylin Williams two years ago is comes out of nowhere. Then
19:05 last year, Brandon Pajimski comes out of nowhere. You know, Herb Sendak does such a good job
19:10 of getting those guys to to bind to their roles, evaluating and mining talent and then
19:16 putting them in positions to win. You know, I'm not ready to say one or one's above the
19:22 other in regards to Santa Clara and San Francisco. I just think that the top four in the league
19:28 are very good, but they they haven't necessarily, I guess, in regards to St. Mary's, haven't
19:35 held their end of the bargain up. You're still waiting for a signature winner to to have
19:39 them poke through and really back. OK, that's the team. Yeah, I know that they can be so
19:43 that when the playoffs come down the stretch, you know, we're going to get well represented
19:47 in the postseason. Dan, that's a pretty good, solid picture that Gonzaga's worldview is
19:53 starting to formulate this year about who on the team is looking good, who in the conference
19:57 is looking good. Is there anything this week in the WCC that we missed before we say goodbye
20:00 to everybody? Well, I think the biggest thing for the WCC this week is that St. Mary's game
20:07 against Boise State is big for them. And then I think the Gonzaga game against USC is going
20:12 to show a lot about Gonzaga's backcourt. Hickman and Nembhard have been good, not great this
20:20 year, but they've got a test against maybe the best backcourt in the country for USC.
20:27 Isaiah Collier, number one high school player season ago, possible number one pick in the
20:32 NBA draft, very dominant guard, about six, four ish strong and score it can shoot it
20:38 can pass it. Teams up with Boogie Ellis, who's back for his fifth year. So they're formidable.
20:44 And then you throw a good wing like Kobe Johnson in the mix. And then maybe the return of of
20:50 Bronny James, we don't know that they're talking about, you know, he's going through workouts
20:54 now pre games. So who knows if he makes his debut against Gonzaga. It's in Vegas, it's
21:00 on ESPN. You know, it's something where maybe that would be the perfect welcome to college
21:06 basketball for Bronny James, but that'll be a fun one. I'm sure that would be a circus.
21:11 That'd be awesome. I'm just thinking about that in Vegas, that'd be that'd be a hell
21:16 of a there's probably an entrance. Yeah, yeah, the odds being taken on whether or not he'll
21:21 come back in Vegas type thing in Vegas, you can go bet on to which is crazy about that.
21:26 Dan, thank you as always for joining us. Thank you everyone for tuning in. Like I said, go
21:29 check out the interview that Dan did with Anton and a bunch of other great content that
21:34 is coming out of that fantastic new setup that they've all got. Guys, we'll talk to
21:38 you next time.