On this episode of the Las Vegas Raiders Insider Podcast, we look at the case of Antonio Pierce and the ICONIC franchise's future.
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00:00 Hi everybody and welcome back to Sports Illustrated's Fan Nation Las Vegas Raiders Insider Podcast
00:08 and joined today by my good buddy John Schaap as we do each and every week we go around
00:14 and talk ball and we talk about Raiders and we talk about the really the NFL in totality.
00:20 John, I got an interesting subject that I want to discuss with you today.
00:27 It's one that I find fascinating.
00:30 It's the Raiders of course and whether or not a person likes Antonio Pierce as a potential
00:40 full-time head coach, that can be a legitimate debate.
00:47 But I don't think you can debate this is a better team today than the team the day before
00:53 he took over.
00:54 Agree or disagree?
00:56 That's no question.
00:57 Everybody's seen it.
00:58 They're playing harder.
00:59 They're playing more focused.
01:01 They look a little more organized.
01:03 There's not a question.
01:04 They've been better in every week so far than they were under Josh McDaniels this year.
01:12 I agree with you.
01:13 What has stood out to you?
01:15 To me there's a couple of things.
01:17 They've been competitive in every game.
01:19 They're playing with more energy.
01:22 They're hitting hard.
01:23 They're going after people.
01:24 I like the way they're playing.
01:26 Clearly there's some holes but that's not apeaceful.
01:32 He inherited a team halfway through the year after a trade deadline.
01:35 It's not on the GM.
01:36 It's not on him.
01:37 It's just reality.
01:41 One of the things that's probably stood out most is it probably is the energy and how
01:45 hard they've played.
01:47 They're playing significantly harder.
01:50 John, we lost you for a second.
01:53 Say that again.
01:55 The energy is there.
01:57 They're simply playing harder.
02:00 On every single snap you're seeing them playing harder.
02:04 The gap between the talent of the Raiders and their opponents looks closer than it was.
02:10 It looks more in the Raiders' favor than it did the first part of the season.
02:14 Now usually that's something that we see carry over for a little while.
02:18 Maybe the first week or two what has stood out to me is that you can still see how hard
02:23 they're playing under Antonio Pierce.
02:26 It looks like this kind of effort level and energy level is something they can use through
02:30 the entire season.
02:32 That's not always the case with new coaches and/or major coaching moves.
02:37 Are we going to see that in Pittsburgh?
02:39 Are we going to see that in Buffalo?
02:41 Are we going to see that by deletion in Washington?
02:45 Probably not.
02:46 Yeah, I think you objectively look at the NFL, you say the Raiders are playing harder
02:51 and they've got more energy under Pierce than they did before.
02:55 And maybe most importantly, they are making a point of emphasis to get the ball to their
03:02 featured players, especially when they're on offense.
03:04 They're trying to get the ball to Jacobs.
03:06 They're trying to get the ball to Adams very, very clearly.
03:09 We saw that last week and the Chiefs did enough to stop it, but that also has stood out.
03:14 Those are probably the things that stand out most in watching the Raiders games from afar
03:18 to date.
03:22 So John, let me go over with you what's really stood out to me.
03:31 The officiating, we've talked about it all year, has been horrible this season.
03:38 I'll give you an example.
03:40 In the Chiefs game, there was such a blatant pass interference where Devontae was wide
03:47 open and what could have been a big momentum turning play in the game.
03:53 Just no call.
03:54 I mean, it was so blatant.
04:00 I have two friends that are NFL referees.
04:06 One is retired, one is current.
04:10 And so I don't believe the league is rigged because I know both of these men.
04:15 I know they're men of integrity and I don't think they would participate in that.
04:19 In fact, I know they wouldn't.
04:20 They're two honorable men.
04:26 But I think the officiating has just been horrible.
04:30 And I want to ask you, at what point does the NFL say, "All right, we got to worry about
04:37 our reputation and we're going after guys who are betting on non-football in places
04:45 that it's legal.
04:48 We need to be worrying about us hurting the game by not improving officiating, thus giving
04:53 people who don't know officials the platform to say this is rigged."
04:59 I mean, they've got to think about their own product.
05:02 Am I wrong?
05:03 No, they do.
05:05 And that specific play, Devante reacted so immediately that it got a lot of attention.
05:12 I'm usually not a fan of necessarily the players reacting unless it's remarkably obvious because
05:19 then it actually brings attention and a focus to it.
05:22 And yes, the NFL's got to pay some attention here.
05:25 It looks like Texas is going to come online.
05:27 It looks like Florida is coming online.
05:29 They've got some legal battles going there.
05:31 The reason I mentioned those are two massive population states.
05:34 So there's going to be more bettors coming.
05:37 When does it happen?
05:38 My guess is when a critical mass of owners in the NFL bring it up or say, "This is a
05:45 problem.
05:46 We ought to be trying to improve our product, including the officiating, every single year
05:51 at an increased speed, just like you, you, you, you, and you do in your other businesses."
05:57 Because so many of the owners in the NFL now have other businesses or come from other businesses.
06:03 When does that critical mass get hit?
06:05 Well, obviously we hope it gets hit as soon as this next, basically, I guess the winter
06:10 meetings, the meetings after the season's over.
06:13 We're seeing this inching along to the off-field official.
06:17 That needs to happen.
06:18 We're seeing more involvement from New York.
06:20 That's fine.
06:21 Some of this is good and better.
06:23 We need to see an improvement in the officiating.
06:26 We need to see some revisions of the rules, which is probably an off-season discussion.
06:31 We talked a bit about the competition committee needing somebody whose really main focus is
06:36 that job and not coaching this team or that team.
06:39 These things need to come together.
06:42 There needs to be some reform with some of the rules.
06:44 There needs to be reform with some of the penalties.
06:46 The point of contact pass interference, that's got to go.
06:51 There really probably should be a difference for your side of the 50 and the other side.
06:54 We need graduated penalties when it comes to targeting and stuff like that.
06:59 But your initial point and the most important thing is that the overall quality of the officiating
07:05 in the sport has to be consistent.
07:07 It has to look like it's on a curve getting better.
07:10 People can appreciate, okay, they're trying their best and they're actually working to
07:14 get better.
07:15 What fans should not and do not appreciate now, and clearly the players don't, is when
07:21 we're seeing the same problems over and over and over that we've seen 10, 15 years ago.
07:26 There's no place for those anymore.
07:28 They got to get better and bless America, they can.
07:31 This is the most popular form of entertainment in the country.
07:34 131 million people watched it last Turkey day.
07:37 You got to step it up.
07:38 - John, I got to tell you, I was literally like, I have watched all season, Max Crosby
07:48 get held, tackled.
07:51 I mean, almost every play.
07:55 Raiders need to understand something.
07:58 And Matt Mellon has said it on this podcast.
08:02 The Raiders for years were like rule number one, cheat.
08:06 Rule number two, when in doubt, remember rule number one.
08:10 So you can say, oh, the other teams are cheating.
08:12 Well, Raiders did too.
08:15 And if it's not getting called, can you blame them?
08:19 A win's a win.
08:21 So anyways, I just think the day is coming when the NFL, because they want to protect
08:28 their own product, is going to have to do.
08:32 Now, I'm going to be honest.
08:34 I've asked my friends who have been referees, are and presently, what do you think of full-time
08:41 refs?
08:42 And they're like, well, we're already reviewing tape during the week.
08:48 We're looking at tape during the week.
08:51 I don't know what else we can do with that time.
08:57 They've said it sounds good, but it's really not.
09:00 There's nothing additionally that we're going to be able to do.
09:03 It's not going to change the product a whole lot, which I thought was an interesting approach.
09:08 They said, great.
09:09 You want to pay me a lot more money to quit my job?
09:13 Okay, but I'm not going to be doing much more than I'm doing now.
09:17 I thought that was interesting.
09:19 It is.
09:20 It is.
09:21 And that's always been my contention is that's not going to make that big of a difference.
09:25 I remember, you know, the referees finally, the referees almost had their own informal
09:29 training camp for years that Ed Hockley and one of the other great refs put together.
09:34 It was featured on Real Sports probably a decade ago.
09:37 It's worth taking a look at if you can find it.
09:39 They get together, review the rule changes, talk about some things.
09:44 That's great.
09:45 And having them be full-time, that's great too.
09:47 That's not what needs to happen.
09:48 What needs to happen is a revision of the rules, organization, some technology built
09:53 in and then a push to improve it.
09:55 And the biggest thing I really think is the off-field official.
09:58 The off-field official with a limited jurisdiction is going to take care of a lot of it.
10:03 And we're getting a sneak preview.
10:05 I feel like we have like a 33% preview with the quick look and some of the other stuff
10:10 that they're doing from New York.
10:12 That's like just a 33% preview of what an off-field official would do.
10:16 The time for reorganization is there.
10:20 Sensible technology and implementation.
10:25 With that, you're going to have a better product officiated and a better product on the field.
10:30 Yeah, fascinating to me, John.
10:33 All right, I'm going to let you take it away.
10:35 It's the bye week.
10:36 What are some NFL topics that we're going to discuss today, John?
10:40 Around the NFL, we go, we got to start right here.
10:43 We got to start here with you and me.
10:44 We talk a lot since the summer about some folks, and we pointed the finger at some.
10:49 Russell Wilson, Jadavia and Clowney, first of all.
10:52 Well, Russell Wilson appears to be going along well.
10:56 We must take our hat off to him.
10:57 Now, you could say he's just dinking it there and every once in a while making a throw.
11:02 Well, those throws have been pretty good, and he has surpassed what looked like a career
11:07 that was absolutely over to this point.
11:10 So we must take our hat off to him and say, hey, you got to go on.
11:14 Jadavia and Clowney, work ethic, practice issues, all kinds of issues.
11:18 Can the Ravens revive the guy?
11:20 Well, we've seen him make impact plays as recently as this week.
11:24 So we must take our hat off to him and say, hey, looks like you got something there.
11:29 If nothing else, one great final season, hopefully.
11:32 Now we can point the finger another direction.
11:36 What in the world is David Tepper doing in Carolina?
11:39 We talked about it last week that maybe Frank Reich needed to keep his eyes out.
11:43 He's gone already.
11:44 And this guy is out there saying, oh, I'm a patient guy, and I don't think the fact
11:49 that I fired Matt Rule and Frank Reich is going to have any effect on the job search.
11:54 What planet is this guy on?
11:58 Am I crazy or is he out of his mind right now as far as how he's supposed to own a football
12:02 team?
12:03 Well, he's a billionaire, and he's going to do it his way.
12:10 That's fine.
12:11 I got to tell you, it's fascinating to me.
12:15 And owners like that end up having to overpay the next guy because he doesn't really want
12:21 to go there if he's any good.
12:24 Or you go get a rookie, and then the rookie has to learn.
12:28 So you end up firing him.
12:31 It's fascinating.
12:32 I don't remember the number, and I should have written it down.
12:35 But someone last week told me how much money NFL franchises owe fired coaches.
12:47 And I mean, John, it was a ton.
12:52 It's got to be 50 million bucks, probably.
12:55 Oh, no, no, no, no, no.
12:57 It's closer to a billion.
12:59 That's incredible.
13:02 I'm not saying it was a billion.
13:04 But Mark Davis owes almost 50 million just to Josh McDaniels.
13:10 Yeah, you add them all up.
13:12 Yeah.
13:13 You know, the amazing thing about Carolina is if people haven't seen a season with the
13:18 Carolina Panthers, it's great.
13:19 It's basically hard knocks for the season.
13:22 It was the first year David Tepper's ownership.
13:24 You saw some signs of maybe concern there.
13:28 And you also saw the Carolina practice facility, which is right next to the stadium there in
13:32 Charlotte.
13:33 It really looks like a high school facility, to be fair.
13:36 So maybe one of the first signs we saw that Tepper had an issue was when he worked at
13:40 a facility in South Carolina and then pulled the plug on it and something went boom.
13:44 Like, that's kind of strange.
13:46 They did some nice updates to the to the fine stadium in Charlotte, but they don't even
13:51 have a good practice facility.
13:52 So I'm not sure how great a coach they're even going to be able to entice there because
13:57 it looks like a bit of a disorganized franchise with no sign of a quick correction.
14:03 He just got rid of Dan Snyder, taking all the bad stuff off the field that Snyder did.
14:09 Is this guy going down the Snyder path?
14:11 If you remember the mid to late 90s of shotgun decisions, shooting all over the place and
14:17 hitting not many targets.
14:18 Right.
14:19 I agree with you.
14:20 John, I want to ask you real quick.
14:22 I, as you know, wrote an article this week in which I really dug in and discussed Mark
14:31 Davis.
14:33 And does he go with an owner led team, which means he picks a GM and a coach and they're
14:37 both accountable to him?
14:39 Does he hire a GM and then let them pick a coach or does he hire a coach, let them pick
14:44 a GM?
14:45 These are fascinating times.
14:48 And as you know, I was the first because you were on the show with me at the beginning
14:54 of the year to say I was hearing if Belichick did make the playoffs, he would be gone.
14:59 I actually had a person in the comments when I mentioned that the other day, say you're
15:02 lying.
15:03 I'm like, OK, whatever.
15:05 But go back and watch.
15:06 I did.
15:09 I think we're learning very few people can do that.
15:14 Very few.
15:15 And the amount of failures far exceed the successes.
15:22 I think it's a fascinating time.
15:24 And I believe whatever direction Mark Davis goes.
15:27 And it's not my job to tell him what to do, but whatever he does.
15:32 I believe good or bad.
15:35 This is going to be a legacy defining decision for him.
15:42 Agree or disagree?
15:43 No, I agree totally, because you've got a line in the sand when they move to Las Vegas
15:47 and then you've got a massive.
15:50 Calamitous whiff with the John Gruden era and then you've got strike two with the McDaniels
15:55 era.
15:56 This is probably the one that's going to stamp the legacy.
15:58 Either they could never get it right under Mark Davis's ownership or they turn the corner
16:03 right there.
16:05 And when you talk about that situational setup, I wonder if the important thing is to figure
16:10 out which way you're going to go and then go with it.
16:14 So it may not necessarily be that one of those can work and the other one can't.
16:18 Although some of us old schoolers think, you know, a GM would probably be the right way
16:22 to go.
16:23 We recognize that you may have a coach that says, hey, I would come here, but I need this
16:27 guy to be the GM.
16:28 And basically I want to call the shots or we both report to the owner.
16:32 I think maybe the important thing is you identify there's these three different ways to do it.
16:38 If there's three and then commit to a way to do it and then go for it.
16:42 My guess is at this point in time, Mark Davis knows if he wants to be an owner driven organization,
16:49 picking these pieces, picking these parts, or if he wants to just actually have somebody
16:54 generally manage his franchise.
16:57 So I think that there may not be a right way to do it, but I wonder if people get into
17:02 trouble when they're like, well, we're set up this way.
17:05 And then here comes owner trying to make a draft pick or here comes owner blocking a
17:09 trade that you obviously know well from decades past.
17:13 Or here comes an owner changing this part out.
17:17 When people are conflicted there, it's no good.
17:19 We seem to see the most successful franchises over and over seem to have a lane, seem to
17:26 have an organization and try to stay in it.
17:30 Most of the time it's owners going maybe out of place.
17:34 Sometimes you see those other power struggles, but this is going to be a legacy decision.
17:39 And I think that's why, because the first two in Las Vegas were speed bumps.
17:44 Whatever this one is, that's going to be probably the one that dictates the direction from here
17:48 of that legacy.
17:49 Yeah.
17:50 The first one was a COVID year.
17:52 The second one, they couldn't control the John Gruden emails and Josh McDaniels was
18:01 a rebuild.
18:02 And I mean, yeah, I agree with you.
18:05 Hey, Hart Knox, I'm a huge fan.
18:10 I'm not a big fan of the mid season, although I have to admit this is the first year of
18:15 the mid season that I like it.
18:17 Your thoughts on Hart Knox?
18:19 You and I are both Hart Knox preseason fans, but what are you thinking of mid season?
18:23 Yeah, I've never missed an episode of Hart Knox period.
18:27 Not one since it's been on ever.
18:29 So I'm in.
18:31 This Dolphins team is interesting.
18:33 And of course the first week is very interesting because we had the Raiders element and you
18:36 saw just how extraordinarily the Dolphins paid attention to Max Crosby on every play
18:42 and how they had to plan for him.
18:44 You've got the Mike McDaniel factor, which makes this Hart Knox interesting, but there
18:47 is something else about this Dolphins team that is different.
18:52 It's not just the setting.
18:54 It's not just the schedule that they have because obviously they played the Black Friday
18:58 game last week, but this is an interesting bunch to see.
19:03 And it is interesting because they appear to do some things differently than the rest
19:08 of the league.
19:09 McDaniel is a very different guy and it's fascinating because right now what they're
19:16 doing and what he's doing is working.
19:19 And they've got, they're using the whole field in a different way than we've seen people.
19:26 They're using analytics.
19:27 They're using, you know, we've run these plays in random years, so we're going to run
19:33 them over there next week.
19:34 So we're not so predictable.
19:36 It's just interesting to see.
19:37 And this is a season that the end season, this is a much better interesting thing to
19:43 see than say last season or the one, the year where the Colts blew up and the Colts have
19:49 never recovered.
19:51 That was also something, and obviously Dolphin fans are hoping not to see that at the end
19:55 of this in season Hart Knox.
19:57 But it is really, really good, especially if you're a super fan.
20:01 Most of the people out there are, I bet you they're digging it so far.
20:03 John, let me ask you this question.
20:07 You know, at the beginning of the year, I predicted the Raiders to be nine and eight.
20:12 I predicted them at this point to be five and seven.
20:14 So I'm still on the money.
20:16 I'm curious if you had to pick today, where do you think they end up?
20:22 Right now we've got them at five and seven, if my reading is correct.
20:27 And we've got the bye week, obviously.
20:30 Then you go Vikings chargers.
20:32 Yeah.
20:33 And there's, there's already hype.
20:35 There's already hype building and there should be for the Vikings.
20:39 What we think that game will be now, as far as playoff and everything else goes, it's
20:43 going to look a little bit different next week because everybody else almost is playing.
20:47 I think of the games left.
20:50 There are, I mean, if you look at them, you're thinking off the top of your head, there are
20:57 four of them, at least four of them that are really winnable.
21:01 And the way they played the Chiefs, you would say five, maybe, but you say, well, wait a
21:05 second, it's in Kansas City.
21:06 Let's just take that one off the board.
21:08 It really looks to me like there are four winnable games.
21:11 We talked about this in the summer.
21:13 The Raiders were going to go 12 weeks and then they were going to have really a different
21:17 schedule and it was a little bit of it was going to be a sprint with the two games at
21:21 Allegiant in four days.
21:24 And really we would know on December 15th, well, maybe not 15th, maybe the end of that
21:29 weekend.
21:32 What kind of shot they would have.
21:34 I look at this very different now.
21:36 I think your prediction turns out to be very possible.
21:40 There are four winnable games on this schedule.
21:43 My impression is the attitude in that franchise is we want to compete and we obviously want
21:48 to win all of them.
21:50 But what I see on the field, even in that Chiefs game, is more of a belief.
21:55 I think the Raiders are going to come out of the bye with a belief that they can beat
21:59 the Vikings.
22:00 They can beat the Chargers.
22:01 They might be able to get the Chiefs and that they can beat the Colts.
22:06 And if they do, let's say they win all of those games, or let's say they just lose at
22:13 the Chiefs.
22:15 There may be something on the line when they play the Broncos and they will be ready to
22:19 play the Broncos.
22:21 And this nice little run the Broncos have gone on with all the turnovers, that's going
22:26 to come back to the mean a little bit.
22:28 The Broncos are not going to be the same as they are right now, where they're arguably
22:32 one of the hotter teams and look at the turnover numbers.
22:35 So I think that we really have something.
22:38 It's nice to talk about something for a long time and then get to see it.
22:42 And we didn't know how it was going to get here.
22:44 But the really unique thing is they've got this bye and then they've got the double shot
22:48 of games and then they are going to have an idea.
22:52 Are we in this playoff?
22:53 Can we make a playoff chase?
22:54 What exactly does that look like?
22:56 It's pretty exciting.
22:58 And this is a really good time for their bye week just to come up out of nowhere and then
23:03 to have two the next week, mid-December.
23:07 Fascinating times.
23:09 All right, Johnny, let's do our pick four.
23:14 The featured foursome.
23:15 It's your bye week, but you must watch.
23:18 Always must watch.
23:19 You know what the deal is.
23:21 Interesting week for- My bye week's gone a whole different direction
23:24 because my wife has been sick as a dog.
23:28 So all my plans went to crap.
23:32 Well that's not good.
23:33 It's just not a good period for anybody to be sick.
23:36 And yeah, we all know how it can totally disrupt what plans you have.
23:41 Kansas City and Green Bay is interesting for a couple of reasons.
23:44 Obviously it's a trip to Kansas City at night or Green Bay at night for Kansas City.
23:49 But if you look at where the standings are, it's kind of a last man standing for Green
23:53 Bay.
23:54 This would be a massive pull for Green Bay, but it is a setting that suggests trouble
24:01 in many ways.
24:04 Thieves are going to kill them.
24:06 Thieves are going to kill them.
24:08 That will be something to see.
24:10 It's possible, but just keep an eye on Green Bay.
24:12 They're up against the wall.
24:14 Now we just talked about Denver.
24:15 Denver is going to Houston.
24:18 What's going to happen?
24:19 Is this magical run with the turnover machine going to keep going?
24:22 And also remember last week we talked about, or we should have talked about how great Jacksonville
24:26 and Houston would be.
24:28 It turned out to be pretty good.
24:32 It's a little bit of a test for the Texans here.
24:33 How far along are they?
24:35 Because they seem to be a little further ahead of people than we think.
24:38 But now you've got this hot, not fluky, but hot Bronco team with a defense that's coming
24:43 around too.
24:44 It could be a tough one for Stroup.
24:49 Houston's going to roll.
24:50 I think it's a 28-21, 28-24 game, something like that.
24:58 I like it to be tight.
24:59 I don't know who's going to win.
25:01 I kind of think Houston, but then I think Denver.
25:04 I think it's a toss-up.
25:06 There's no doubt that Cleveland at the Rams matters.
25:10 The Rams, again, they pretty much must win this one, or they're going to start to siesta
25:17 on their quest for a playoff bid before December even gets going.
25:23 Browns at Rams, it's a long trip, but it's a...
25:26 The Browns have been out there too.
25:28 Some folks know who saw the game last week are part of the game.
25:30 They stayed out West.
25:31 If I recall.
25:32 Yeah.
25:33 I'm going to go with the Rams on this.
25:37 I think they're competitive.
25:39 I think they're playing for pride.
25:41 I'm just not a buyer at all on the Browns at all.
25:45 I'm riding with them.
25:48 I'm with you there, especially because it's the second week prepping for that new quarterback.
25:52 I think when you have a new quarterback the first week, it seems like defenses need a
25:55 chance to catch up.
25:56 I think they're going to be caught up.
25:58 I think the Rams have enough veterans to know that they've got to have this one, period.
26:01 They must have this one.
26:03 There's no doubt that San Francisco at Philadelphia is a big game.
26:08 We all know what happened last time.
26:11 The Eagles are at home and the Eagles are rolling.
26:13 I like Philadelphia this week.
26:15 Yeah.
26:17 I'm riding Eagles all the way.
26:19 I don't even think...
26:20 Yeah.
26:21 I think the Eagles win this one handily.
26:23 Now, any thoughts?
26:28 Justin Fields is a player of the moment because there's so much circling around him relative
26:35 to what that franchise is doing.
26:37 We don't even know if they put Justin Fields in a position to succeed yet.
26:41 I don't think they have.
26:42 We see Justin Fields has tremendous natural ability.
26:46 He can throw the ball hard.
26:47 He can throw the ball a long way.
26:48 He's got long legs.
26:50 He's like three steps and he's going.
26:54 You want to hear an interesting thing?
26:56 You want to hear an interesting thing Jim Trestle taught me?
27:00 When he was scouting high school players, he watched when they were in the open field
27:06 running, do they make the five yards in one step, two step, or three steps?
27:17 He said that was all he needed.
27:20 He said that was all they needed.
27:22 He needed to know.
27:25 He told me about a particular player, I won't say who, I don't think he would mind, but
27:28 I don't have his permission.
27:31 That he said he would do one, then two, one and two, and it happened to be the fastest
27:35 player he ever saw.
27:37 He said, "But that was a way."
27:40 To me, when you look at this Eagle team, there's a lot of interesting things, but Justin Fields,
27:48 you know I really like him personally.
27:50 I know him personally.
27:53 I love the way he plays.
27:54 I love his speed.
27:56 I don't think Chicago has put him in a place to succeed.
28:01 I think they're going to probably try to get rid of him and go get another quarterback.
28:07 I want to transition here into my next question for you.
28:11 I wrote this week, or I talked this week, that Lincoln Riley was once a lot of NFL teams
28:18 had their eye on him.
28:19 Nobody does now.
28:20 The way he's handled Caleb Williams, no discipline.
28:25 Caleb Williams' stock has dropped.
28:28 He's still going to get picked, but Lincoln Riley's, I don't think he has a shot at any
28:33 NFL team.
28:35 How fascinating is it to you about how fast Lincoln Riley has just collapsed?
28:44 Massively fascinating, because as college football has changed, we've seen coaches struggle
28:50 to adapt to it or want to adapt to it, like Davos Swinney.
28:53 We've seen coaches like Irvin Meyer try to jump to the NFL.
28:56 We've seen coaches, I think Ryan Day and Lincoln Riley, miss their chances when they should
29:01 have gone to the NFL.
29:03 What the interesting thing is, is how fast your stock can go from one end to the other.
29:10 If Ryan Day wants to leave Ohio State after this year and finally go to the NFL, is he
29:15 going to get the same reception he would have a couple years ago?
29:18 I don't know.
29:19 But I find it remarkably fascinating.
29:22 And Riley has this illness.
29:25 Their program looks disorganized.
29:27 He's got a former NFL assistant right there.
29:32 They don't have some of the fundamentals down at Southern Cal.
29:35 And I think that that concerns a lot of folks.
29:38 If you take some of the gold standard teams in the NFL, like the Ravens, how many years
29:43 in a row have the Ravens done the basics very well, nearly across the field?
29:50 Or the Eagles?
29:51 Steelmen.
29:52 Yeah, so far across the field.
29:54 So if you're going to be an NFL head coach, I would think that you'd need to show that
29:58 you've got a really meticulously organized team, at least the team that's out there playing.
30:05 Nobody necessarily cares about the fourth string red shirt freshman.
30:10 But what we've seen with Riley is a lack of steadiness and a quarterback that looks pretty
30:18 undisciplined at different times, making throws and doing stuff that, you know, sometimes
30:24 you may be able to get away with some stuff at the college level.
30:27 It is not going to happen at the pro level because of the time it takes for guys to close,
30:32 because of the size of players, etc.
30:34 So I do think there's an interest in that.
30:36 My interest is, I think some guys missed the boat when they either should have got out
30:41 of college and sat for a while, like Bronco Mendenhall or Chris Peterson have, or they
30:46 should have gone to the NFL.
30:48 And unfortunately, we've seen some less than great results.
30:53 Davos winning at Clemson, it feels like it's lost the grip a little bit.
30:59 And Riley is a guy, whether it was the Cowboys or other folks that were interested, I wonder,
31:05 yeah, if he might have missed his chance, his best chance to jump out.
31:09 So I find it very interesting to watch those guys at the college level who have a likely
31:15 shot to go when they try to figure out the timing of whether or not and when they should
31:19 go.
31:20 We haven't really seen anybody pulled off well in a while.
31:23 And there is a gold standard.
31:25 For the young folks out there, there is a bright gold standard.
31:29 His name is Jimmy Johnson.
31:31 And if he had gone back to college, he could have won more national titles.
31:35 And if he had stayed in Dallas, they would have won more Super Bowls.
31:39 So don't ever let anybody tell you it hadn't been done.
31:42 It's been a while, but the guy that did it best, he's going on the Pro Football Hall
31:46 of Fame, or he just went in the Pro Football Hall of Fame, finally, and soon to go in that
31:50 Cowboy Ring of Honor.
31:51 I agree.
31:52 All right.
31:53 He's the great John Schaap, dear friend.
31:56 Remember, this is Sports Illustrated's Fan Nation, Las Vegas Raiders Insider Podcast,
32:00 part of the Fans First Sports Network.
32:02 You can also find John's podcast, Spartan Pride, on the Fans First Sports Network.
32:07 I also want to give you this.
32:08 If you watch our podcast, actually not watch it, but just listen on Spotify or Apple, which
32:14 it's available there too, I'm doing a new thing, which is a five or 10 minute exclusive,
32:20 just audio only every day.
32:22 In addition to this podcast, you don't see it on our website, you don't see it on YouTube,
32:27 you just see it there.
32:28 So I encourage you to take a look there.
32:30 But from all of us, Merry Christmas to all of you.
32:33 Wish you nothing but the best.
32:34 Hope you enjoy the rest of this.
32:35 Bye.
32:36 Man, I hope my wife gets healthy.
32:37 And we'll see you all again soon.
32:38 Thanks, John.
32:39 [BLANK_AUDIO]