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00:00 Adam Morrison here. When it comes to top-tier contracting, my go-to choice is McGillivray
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00:55 HDG Architecture is proud to be a sponsor of The Perimeter with Adam Morrison.
01:01 There is another podcast that you all should be listening to, and it's called "If Not Now,
01:07 When?" This podcast, which Josh Hassong of HDG Architecture hosts, has a clear mission to ignite
01:14 positive change within the Spokane community. On the podcast, Josh brings together diverse
01:19 individuals from city officials, business owners, journalists, influencers, and big thinkers to
01:26 have meaningful conversations about what we can do to help transform downtown Spokane into an even
01:32 more vibrant and robust community. By talking to these movers and shakers, the podcast aims to
01:38 inspire and empower its listeners by actively shaping their city's future. You can find the
01:43 "If Not Now, When?" podcast wherever you are listening to The Perimeter at,
01:48 or you can find it in the description of this episode.
02:02 Welcome to The Perimeter, season three, episode eight, sponsored by McGillivray Environmental.
02:08 I just got back from Vegas a couple days ago. It was a good weekend for the Zags. I was fortunate
02:15 enough to go to the Pac-12 championship game. It was pretty cool. I got tickets, luckily, somehow.
02:20 So I went to about... I showed up like right at the end of the first half, so I watched the whole
02:25 second half. I had really good tickets and stuff, so it was kind of cool to witness history a little
02:30 bit. Really cool game. I had no dog in the fight. I must say that Allegiant Stadium is unbelievable.
02:36 I was going to ask. It looks like a pretty cool place.
02:38 It's really cool. You know, packed to the gills, so it was a cool atmosphere. But I've
02:45 been to football games. My cousin plays for the University of Wyoming, so I go to one or two games
02:51 a year. Been to NFL games, not very many, but I understand why people don't like bringing their
02:58 kids to that. There is so many people completely trashed, screaming in your ear, obscenities.
03:06 Oh my god, dude. Now it makes sense when you see all the fights and stuff, all the clips.
03:12 We had a guy behind me that was fall down, piss drunk, and screaming in all of our ears because
03:22 he presumed we were UW fans. He was probably like 45 and he had the folding,
03:30 the praying hands tattoo with the old English writing, prayer. So then you're like, "All right."
03:37 And then he had fake diamond earring jewelry, which he was too old for, and he was wearing an
03:45 Oregon basketball jersey. He obviously wasn't in shape to be wearing a tank top.
03:52 [laughter]
03:53 And it was so hard not to engage with him because you don't want to get in a fight and you get
03:59 assault charges or whatever. But he was screaming. I was sitting with some other people that got me
04:06 the tickets that I knew and screaming in their ears. It was crazy. And I just kept thinking,
04:12 "I get why people don't go to football games." Because I've heard that. It's really hard to
04:16 take your kids to an NFL game. I don't know if it was an NFL game, but there's so many drunk people
04:21 in the obscenities and I learned.
04:23 - Yeah. Well, especially that rivalry too. I imagine Ducks fans were not happy with the outcome.
04:29 - We kept telling them, "Dude, we have no dog in the fight." Literally. I was like,
04:35 "We don't care who wins. We're just watching a good football game." And then he was like,
04:40 "You guys are dog fans." It was a joke. And he didn't have any friends with him.
04:48 And then he kept yelling at these two younger UW kids in front of him. And the one guy goes,
04:53 "Hey man, where's your wife and kids, you loser?" And it was the best comment. I was like, "Yes."
04:58 Not that that determines if you're a loser or not. It was just like, "You have no friends or
05:04 nobody cares about you. You're by yourself at a... " He literally was by himself. There was a UW fan
05:10 and then there was two Oregon fans sitting next to him. And he went left to probably get more
05:14 beer. And we asked, "Is that your guy's friend?" They're like, "No." So we were like, "This guy's
05:19 sitting by himself." Anyway, really fun game though. And it was kind of sad to be honest.
05:24 Because obviously we're in the WCC, but I grew up on the Pac-12 and stuff. And always kind of root,
05:32 I guess, for the Cougs when they're good. When Leach was there. And I was like, "All right."
05:36 Now it's just completely gone. You're like, "This kind of sucks."
05:39 - Yeah. I mean, it's over. The Pac-12 is gone.
05:42 - There's no West Coast conference, big time conference for football. It's weird to even say
05:48 that out loud. - Yeah, it is weird.
05:49 - Every team is going to be playing in the Midwest or the East Coast on the road. It's just weird.
05:56 It felt weird and it felt kind of sad. But obviously it was a fun event. And then I think...
06:02 - The Perimeter will be right back after a word from our sponsor.
06:07 - Hey, Greens. How's everything going today? - Hey, Robert. We're good. Just checking in
06:15 on that car loan we applied for. - No worries. Let me pull that up.
06:19 Yep. Looks like you're approved and all set. - Hey, that's great news.
06:24 - So you headed over to the dealership now? - Yep. Just got to make one stop first.
06:29 - And we got a great rate too.
06:33 -
06:36 I think the tournament for this game, not the tournament, but the promoters of this game are
06:42 hoping USC obviously made it football-wise. And then UW, because they played Colorado State
06:49 before us. So there was a lot of UW fans at the basketball game and obviously they were excited
06:56 and played Colorado State. And we'll get into the UW matchup that's coming up on Saturday.
07:02 But it was nice because I got to watch them live for about half.
07:05 - Oh, nice. Yeah. That was a good game too. - It was a good game. And Colorado State's
07:09 actually a good program and UW did a good job of hanging in that game and had chances to
07:13 win in my opinion. So I thought UW looked good. I'll dive into their roster and their philosophy
07:23 change in the past. And I really think Hopkins is coaching for his job in theory. I don't know
07:31 how much the university cares about basketball anymore. Not saying they don't, but if he goes
07:37 20-12, are they happy with an improvement from last year? Or is it like, "Hey, you need to make
07:44 a run or you're fired." So I'll go into that. But Gonzaga obviously played USC.
07:53 The proposal hype at the start of the year, remember when this game first got announced,
07:58 "Oh my God, we're going to play Bronte James." He was actually out there warming up. It was good to
08:04 see. So I think he's going to play probably the next week or whatever they play against.
08:11 So that'll be nice for their program. Super talented team, man. The Collier kid, the freshman
08:18 was really good. I was really impressed with him. Just a big, strong athlete. He reminded me kind of
08:25 in this maybe over some of the listeners' heads, if they're not NBA people, like Tyreek Evans that
08:30 played at Sacramento a few years ago and that played at, I think, Kentucky before that. Just a
08:35 big-time guard. Uses strength a lot on his drives, straight-line drives. Not that he doesn't have
08:43 anything in his bag, but it was mostly just power. Get to the rim. He passed the ball
08:49 extremely well. I mean, he was 6 of 14, only had 14, but he had 6 assists. But I thought he was
08:56 better than the numbers showed. His impact on the game was good. But I was really impressed
09:03 with their roster. But also it felt like a really good AAU team. Not in a bad way, but they had top
09:16 40 recruit. McDonald's All-American, number one recruit, Bronnie James. But this feels like a
09:22 traveling AAU team where if you're coaching that team, you have to keep everybody happy.
09:26 The continuity is probably not there yet. Maybe it will come to fruition, but it feels like
09:33 every single one of those guys is probably thinking he's a one-and-done and it might be
09:38 difficult. And not saying they all had—there was all freshmen, but the Boogie Ellis kid was
09:44 fantastic, had 28, 12-21 transfer from Memphis. But he's probably like, "I gotta get to the league."
09:51 So it had that feeling of it. I don't mean that in a bad way, but it just was like
09:57 this team chemistry. Not that they would hate each other, but to get the ball pinging would
10:03 be a difficult task for their coach. But we came out as solid as we have at any game this year.
10:13 And it looked like old Zags. And I don't know how to even say it. Six months ago Zags.
10:20 Right. I mean, I felt like this was our most complete game of the season.
10:24 100%. Yeah, we came out—I think we scored, it was 15-4 or something like that at the first media.
10:31 We finally made threes. And it's such a big difference. And not that this team can't shoot,
10:38 but it's not—you don't have a Julian Strother or a Corey Kispert or you know what I mean,
10:42 guys that can really fill it up in theory. But Ben Gregg obviously had a big game. But in that
10:48 first stanza, Dusty hit a couple. I think Nolan hit one. Ryan, I gotta give him credit, his "finally
10:57 slowed down" account. And that's the biggest thing he needed to do. He was playing so fast in Maui,
11:03 and it wasn't good. Like floor game-wise, it's okay because he's flattened the defense,
11:08 but he's just kind of out of control and taking some bad ones. And in the last two games,
11:14 I think he got the message. And I don't think it was probably something the staff said. He probably
11:18 watched the film and just looked at his numbers like, "Hey man, I gotta be more efficient."
11:22 He's really slowed down in a good way and made floaters, taking better jump shots and rhythm,
11:31 not turning the ball over as much. He was 6-11, 15 points, 7 rebounds. 5 turnovers is not great,
11:37 but also I give him sometimes some grace because he plays so quick. And he tries to make things
11:45 happen. So sometimes as a coach or as somebody involved, I look at those as somewhat positive.
11:53 Now you don't want to creep past 5, but if you're playing downhill and you're trying to make things
11:59 happen, you got to live with some of those. But he started the game out fantastic. Graham played
12:05 really good in that first stanza as well. I think he's slowing down too and recognizing when the
12:11 double team's coming and getting lower touches. He had a really good game. 14 points, 10 rebounds,
12:18 5 of 10. So he was efficient, made all of his free throws 4 of 4. He's another one, though,
12:24 had 4 turnovers. Now his turnovers would be viewed different because he's not making,
12:29 handling the ball. So I think his ability to read the double teams will get better as the season
12:36 goes on. It's kind of weird, though, because he got double teamed a lot at Wyoming because he was,
12:41 I mean, they literally just threw him the ball and they ran. ISO was like 1990 style, like literally
12:47 that whole season. Oh, really? Yeah, they throw it to him at like 15 feet, 18 feet, and he would
12:51 back down, back down. And if they doubled, they just spaced the floor with shooters. If not,
12:55 he would go shoot it. That's literally all they did. They made the NCAA tournament, but it was
12:59 like 1990s throw it to Charles Barkley. Makes sense why he'd come to Gonzaga then to take
13:07 over for Timmy then, right? Yeah, well, and then I think there was a big exodus at Wyoming.
13:13 I don't know the full details, but a lot of guys transferred. So he probably just was like,
13:19 you know, and a lot of guys, and this is no disrespect for Wyoming, but Gonzaga is obviously
13:23 a way better program with more eyeballs. So if you're thinking about the next level, you go
13:28 somewhere. You know, his numbers will take a dip compared to 20 and 10 or whatever he averaged in
13:33 his Mount West player of the year. But also you're going to be on like an NBA style team
13:38 with flow offense. And if you can be efficient in that, you'll have a better opportunity. So
13:43 that was probably the thought process in my opinion. But my point is he wasn't, he was double
13:48 teamed a lot there, but he doesn't struggle with it. But at times it looks like it's foreign.
13:53 So sometimes I'm like, what is he doing? But I think he's better at it in the last two games
14:01 than he was the previous three or whatever. So my point is he's improving. How do you work on that,
14:07 like get better at it? So sometimes it's reads. A lot of times if you know you're getting double
14:12 teams, especially in the post, you have to get your touches, got to be lower. So instead of like
14:18 12 to 15 feet, you got to try to catch it on the block or about eight. So you can spin away from
14:24 it and you can see it coming from the top side and you can get his, he has a nice, really nice
14:28 touch around the rim, that lefty jump hook. So then the double team becomes kind of worthless
14:35 because it's so low. Also in practice you can work on, because I remember the listeners, you know,
14:43 if they want to really go back, Roney's last year, my sophomore year, he like completely
14:50 crapped his pants the whole time for a half a season on the double team. He just couldn't
14:55 function with it. And teams did it. And that was kind of the start of the era where teams double
15:00 team, no matter if you were like a prolific scorer or not. Roney was a better scorer than most post
15:06 players. But like sometimes I think the average basketball mind thinks like you only double team
15:11 guys that score a lot. Like sometimes you double team guys that average five, but they can't,
15:15 they don't know how to throw out of it. They'll dribble off their foot. They'll just, you know,
15:19 poop down their leg basically is what I'm trying to say. And so that's a real thing. That's why
15:23 you always have a double team package. And Graham's not that, but he sometimes reverse dribbles and
15:30 then it gets really high up and then, you know, doesn't make the best decisions. Or takes a bad
15:36 shot. Takes a bad shot against it. Yeah. A little off. But my point is he's gotten better at it.
15:41 And then last game he got deep touches. And so it showed up in the stat sheet. Like I said,
15:46 he has 14 and 10 and plays a lot more efficient. So I was impressed with him. Obviously I talked
15:53 about Nembhard. Dusty Stromer is starting to play good basketball last two games.
15:58 He really is. Yeah. I mean, obviously five or 13 is not the most efficient, but he goes four for nine
16:05 from three, has five rebounds, 15 points. He's starting to shoot it with confidence. He's
16:10 starting to score in different variations. I'm happy for him because at the start of the year,
16:17 you know, he was having, you know, two points, four points. And, you know, not that it was freak
16:23 out time, but it was also like, you know, he came in as a top 40 recruit, you know, as a scorer.
16:29 Yeah. And you're playing 35, 38 minutes. You got to put the ball in the basket. And I think he's
16:34 understood that. You can tell he's a really smart kid, smart player. I love his athleticism is,
16:40 you know, kind of defensive awareness and then how he moves around the court. I know that sounds
16:47 kind of funny, but like he's always kind of in the right places, you know, the nose for the ball is
16:51 what I'm trying to get at. And you knew he could score it, but you didn't want him to get buried
16:56 having like five, not bad games where he just didn't put it in. And so to have two in a row
17:01 where the ball's coming off his hands, he had, I think he had 10 the last game against whoever
17:06 the hell we played, Bakersfield. So, you know, 10 and now he has 15, he's starting to knock down
17:13 three. So I was really impressed with his game. Quick question about that. I couldn't find
17:19 anything. Was, I got to imagine USC must've been in his like sights when he was going to college.
17:27 - And UCLA probably, I think were too. So I bet, I bet playing in that game had some extra
17:37 motivation for him because I bet you, you know, it's just me, you know, guessing, but this is
17:44 kind of how it goes. If you are from an area and you go somewhere else, usually you hear flack,
17:51 either out front or behind the scenes. And then, you know, people, why would you go there? That
17:57 type of stuff. So I'm sure he's heard that all summer, you know, and a lot of programs too,
18:03 you know, I'm not saying we've never done it, but I don't think we're in the forefront, but like,
18:09 even if a kid commits, "Hey, you sure you really want to go there?" You know what I mean? If he's
18:13 in your back door or backyard. So I think that probably had some extra motivation for him.
18:23 Because I know UCLA was after him. I know that for a fact. So that game was probably the same,
18:30 same deal, you know? So, and you got to remember, like he was supposedly, you know, going to play
18:38 17 to 20 minutes a night before Steele got hurt. So now he's doing all of the defensive work
18:47 and he's playing 35, 38 minutes. So I think, I said this on air and some people don't understand
18:53 it. Like you're in shape, but you're not in college shape going from high school. And like,
18:59 you have to play every single possession in college and high school, you don't. You can
19:04 save steps. I mean, that's just the reality, especially if you're a dominant player. Like
19:08 I used to sit in the middle of a zone and take plays off, not just let them lay it up, but I'd
19:12 just be like, "All right, I'm going to score 30 tonight. And if I need a break, I'm going to take
19:16 two plays off." Not just stand there, but you know what I'm saying? Like, "I'm going to save my body."
19:22 And you know, the kid I'm guarding is a football player. He's not a basketball kid, right? So go
19:29 ahead and shoot it, bud. You know what I mean? And so that's kind of the thought. And you think
19:34 you can do that in the college level. And then you get there and you're like, "Oh God, I have to play
19:38 defense the whole possession every single time. I have to box out every single time." And so your
19:43 body, it takes a while to get used to. And so I think some of that for him early in the season
19:50 was the reason why he was short on his jumpers and wasn't as aggressive. You know, only shooting
19:55 four or five times a game. Now he gets up 13 shots that were good shots. I don't think he took a bad
20:00 one. So I think his body and his wind got used to the pace and you're starting to see him score the
20:08 basketballs, which is good for us. We need a perimeter threat, especially talking about the
20:12 Graham-EK double teams. You got to have somebody to make a shot. - 100%. Yeah, we really need that.
20:19 - And we've talked about, I mean, how shitty they were shooting in Maui. And that's nothing,
20:24 I always have to say this, but I probably shouldn't. It was like the guys, you know,
20:28 the listeners know I'm not killing the guys, but they were bad shooting the basketball in that
20:32 tournament. And it was nice seeing them. I mean, we go 12-22, it just makes such a big difference.
20:38 And not saying you have to light the world on fire every time, you know, you shoot the basketball,
20:42 but you can't go 0 for 16 and then 6 for 32 and then 6 for 26. You know what I mean? Like,
20:48 that just doesn't, if you go 10 for 22 or 10 for 24, you can live with that. You know, you get 30
20:54 points from beyond the arc, you can live with it. So it was fantastic to see from that standpoint,
21:00 ball going in the basket. I thought Nolan played good, kind of in a, just a quiet 10 points,
21:06 three rebounds, four assists, only one turnover, 4 for 6. I think this year's team is kind of
21:13 going to be that where, you know, there's six guys might have double figures, you know,
21:20 five guys in double figures, and then one guy will have a big game and then the rest will kind
21:24 of fill in. And it kind of goes ring around the rosy. I was posed this question previously,
21:33 and is it good or bad that we don't have like a throw it to one guy and go get a bucket or get
21:38 a good shot? And you can look at it both ways. Last year, three years, the last three years,
21:44 you could throw it to Drew and he was going to get a good shot. Doesn't mean he's going to score
21:48 every time, but we saw it in the NCAA tournament. We did it two games, I think two years in a row,
21:52 where we were playing pretty bad and he kind of took over. So obviously from that standpoint,
21:57 it's great. But on the counter, if you don't have that, if you have four or five guys on the floor,
22:04 you think that can get a good quality shot up within your offense, that's not as easy to defend.
22:12 So that's the counter to it. So that is one of the questions for me for this club as the
22:19 year progresses. And we'll get into a game and we'll find out what the answer is. But if we get
22:24 down where it's, you know, we're down two or we're up two and we need shot clocks, we need a factor,
22:30 do we throw it to Graham? Do we throw it to Nolan? Do we throw it to Ryan? I don't know the answer.
22:35 - Yeah, that's a great... I think that would be revealed later in the season, I would imagine.
22:41 When you need a three, we're going to know who that is probably in January.
22:46 - Yeah. So it'll be interesting to see who that is and if that... Because it's been, like I said,
22:52 it's been three years, maybe three years plus, but three years for sure with Drew that you've
22:59 had that guy. Most teams in Gonzaga have had that guy. I was one of them, obviously Dan Dickow was
23:04 one of them. - Olenek.
23:08 - Olenek was one of them, definitely. You could argue Kevin Pangos was one of those.
23:13 - Yeah. - You know what I mean?
23:14 Like you were going to get a good, like at least the action you ran with him, he was either going
23:18 to shoot a three or make the right read. You could argue Wiltshire was a little bit for maybe half a
23:24 season that last year where he could at least get a good shot off. Dolmas, you could argue, you throw
23:30 to him and he'd get a good post touch, right? - Yeah, no, I...
23:33 - You could just keep going on the line. We're like, "Yeah, that was probably a guy where,
23:37 you know, if he came to the timeout, you're like, 'All right, we're throwing it to this guy.'" So
23:41 it'll be interesting as the year progresses, something to look for. And I'm not saying
23:47 none of the guys that I mentioned, you know, obviously that are playing in heavy minutes
23:51 can't be that guy. We just haven't seen it yet. And they haven't played a full season
23:54 to have those opportunities. But, you know, the last guy to have, you know, or to talk about
24:01 during this game was Ben Greig was fantastic. - Gosh, no kidding.
24:04 - Yeah, he was just a spark plug off the bench. Five of seven, two of three from downtown,
24:08 made both free throws, eight rebounds, 14 points in only 16 minutes. Just loved his attitude
24:14 throughout this whole process. You know, he's kind of, you know, plays 15, 12 to 18 minutes a
24:21 night. Always plays extra hard. Doesn't know when he's going to get his shots. Doesn't know
24:26 if he's going to get the ball. You know what I mean? And sometimes it's funny, he kind of takes
24:33 not bad ones, but ones if you're going pure basketball, be like, "Why is he shooting a jab
24:38 three?" That's his game. Like, get in a rhythm, shoot a jab three, and then fly around on defense,
24:45 and then fly around on the offensive glass. And he's been, you know, extremely efficient this year.
24:51 You know, him and Braden Brain had 12 points off the bench he was good too. But Ben's energy is
24:59 what I was impressed with in that game. And I think he gets everybody else going because he's a,
25:04 you know, everybody likes him. He's a nice kid. You know, I think all the ladies like him too.
25:09 He's a very handsome kid too. - He is a very handsome guy.
25:12 - I saw, it was funny, after one of the games, there was, I think, two or three cheerleaders,
25:18 and you know how they have the big head things? - Yeah.
25:20 - And they had the Ben Gregg, and they were taking pictures of them,
25:23 pretend kissing him on both sides. I'm like, "Oh, what's it like to be 21 again, man?"
25:28 - No kidding. - You know what I mean?
25:29 I was just like, "Oh my God." But he's been fantastic, honestly.
25:33 - Totally. - Just his energy the whole season.
25:36 And like I said, I've always appreciated his kind of energy and his, you know, like,
25:44 he doesn't seem too ticked off if he doesn't play a lot. I'm sure it bothers him, but he doesn't
25:48 ever show it outwardly. And then when he gets his minutes, he makes the most of them. So it's been
25:57 fun watching him kind of fall into that role. And it was such a luxury to have. A lot of programs
26:02 don't have those type of guys that are talented, that do the dirty work, but are talented enough
26:08 to make a jumper, you know, and string some together. You know, not just a hustle guy,
26:13 and that's it. Like, he's a hustle guy, but he can make shots. He can string them together.
26:17 He can guard. He defends at the rim good enough. So I'm really starting to really like this club,
26:24 man. - It's fun to watch. Like, I really do think, and I think one of the coolest things
26:30 about this game was how of the seven guys that played, or is it seven? - It was six or seven
26:36 got in double figures. - Yeah, I mean, and Anton was one point away. - Six, yeah. So basically
26:41 seven. - Yeah. Like, that's very healthy for a team, right? - It's really hard to scout,
26:48 you know what I'm saying? And not that it's going to go like that, and then it goes into the topic
26:52 we just talked about, you know, two minutes ago. You know, when you get down to the, you know,
26:58 the nitty-gritty games, is it better to have two guys that can go get you 25 plus? Well,
27:03 you can argue against that, but what if they're off? You know, so I mean, we could go back and
27:07 forth. - But I think we can do that. I think, because like Anton did that against UCLA. - Yeah,
27:13 no, you're right. And I think like Graham has that. If he's single coverage, he can score in those.
27:18 And then obviously I think Nembhard has that ability. I mean, he had 30 points in a
27:22 tournament game last year. I think Nolan has that if he strings together from the three-point line.
27:27 Maybe Dusty does. I don't know. I haven't seen enough, but he's starting to score,
27:32 you know what I'm saying? So it's not out of the realm, but I just love how
27:35 kind of gritty this team is. They rebound. I mean, they were plus six again on the glass. I think
27:43 they got to be in the top five overall margin. - I wonder. - Yeah, maybe look that up. But like
27:52 against Purdue, they go even or plus two, you know what I'm saying? And then we go plus,
27:57 I think it was 20 against Syracuse. - It was a lot. - It was just like, Jesus. But yeah,
28:05 it was a complete game. It was great for the crowd. Vegas has been so good to us
28:12 as far as obviously the WCC tournament. When we played in that weird tournament a few years ago,
28:18 we played like Central Michigan and then we played UCLA and Duke. Even though we lost the Duke game,
28:22 if you're the promoters of that game and ESPN are like, that was one of the better college
28:27 basketball games of that year. And we lost, but we were like, oh, we could have won that. And I
28:32 remember walking out of that and was like, is he mad? And I'm like this, and everybody's like,
28:37 no. And it was like, that was actually pretty fun. And it's a regular season game. It's not
28:41 going to be viewed as a bad loss, you know what I'm saying? But in Vegas, we've had some great
28:45 crowds and played well. It's the first time at this arena, the MGM Grand Arena. It was decent,
28:55 but it's so weird. Just to go off topic a little bit, how many arenas are in Vegas now? It's crazy.
29:00 - A ton. - It used to be like,
29:02 Thomas and Mac was the one and that was it. And now you're like, everybody has a side arena.
29:08 - Yeah. - And you get it,
29:10 but you're also like, how is this? Because you walk up, you don't even know it's there. And then,
29:14 you know, because they fit them like in the casino. - In the casino, yeah.
29:16 - And you walk in, you're like, holy smokes, this holds like 15,000. It's not tiny. You know what
29:21 I mean? It's just so, it's random. But yeah, I thought it was fantastic for the crowd, fantastic
29:32 for our guys to play well. I think, obviously, Phuey was happy. So it was a good win. I think
29:41 USC is going to be good. They were 33 in the chem palm. So I think if they continue to play well,
29:48 it could turn into a quad one win, at least a quad two. Super talented group, man. Like I said,
29:54 Collier's fantastic. DJ Rodman played at Wazoo, so some of the Listers might know he was okay.
30:01 But the Boogie Ellis guy had 28, was good. But our game plan against Kobe Johnson was good,
30:07 you know, and kind of just bothered their perimeter players. Because three of their
30:12 perimeter guys accounted for, I think it was 72% of their scoring. So going into it, it was like,
30:18 get through all the ball screens, know all their actions, and if you can hold those guys down,
30:22 you're going to be successful. - Well, it kind of goes to your point.
30:27 Last episode, you mentioned letting a player be the one that scores all the points and then focus
30:34 on the other players. I think they kind of did that with USC this time. But it was a great game.
30:41 I just was watching. I had a family Christmas night at my house. It was all my brothers and
30:47 my dad. We all just felt very, very excited about the Zags' future. - I think that this was the game
30:55 that, you know, not that, because we talked about Maui was a success in my mind. I mean,
31:00 obviously we wanted to beat Purdue, but I think it was a success. But seeing the ball go in the
31:04 basket and then mixing in the hustle and the grittiness and the willingness to defend that
31:10 this crew has, it's like, well, this might be a fun year as far as a team that you're kind of like,
31:17 hey, you know, it's not like we don't have expectations, but we don't have Drew,
31:21 we don't have Julian. And then you're like, oh, they're kind of forming a nice little bond
31:26 together. And I like those teams. I think everybody else does too. And then also like,
31:31 you know, this might sound funny, but like, we're not a team that's probably going to blow people
31:35 out by 35. So the games are more enjoyable to watch, more fun to call. - It reminded me of the
31:40 year, I just met Eric McKellen and then Kyle Wiltshire, Schimmick was on the team. It was a
31:47 year before the national championship run. And that team always kind of like, Wiltshire was like
31:55 the leading scorer, but like, it was just, they were just gritty and they were like,
31:59 they ended up being 11th seed in the tournament. I don't think we'll be in 11th seed in the
32:02 tournament, but it was just, it was always like very much team victories. And I like, that's what
32:08 I love about this team is the teamwork. - No, I agree. I mean, there's not many,
32:16 you know, things that I can hammer on. Obviously the shooting, I mean, we go 12-22, which is great,
32:21 but that's going to be something to continue to watch. But if you can play defense and rebound
32:27 and move the ball as a group and you have balanced scoring, like you're going to win
32:30 majority of your games. So I'm just excited as the year progresses. We're playing, who are we
32:37 playing at Pine Bluff tonight? Am I going to talk about that? - Arkansas Pine Bluff, yeah.
32:42 - To answer your question about our rebound margin, we're number nine in the nation with a 12
32:47 rebound margin, averaging 43.4 rebounds per game. - So to the listeners, we're plus 12 on average
32:55 against, so 43 to 31 normally is what it is, is that what they're saying. And so if you're
33:03 successful, you always want to win the rebound margin, but if you want to be elite, the goal is
33:08 usually 10 is the margin. And sometimes those numbers get skewed. You know, you might have a
33:13 club that's, you know, played like four sisters of the poor and you know what I mean? So like,
33:19 that's something that you watch, but if you're in the top 10, top 20 consistently every year,
33:24 that means you care about the glass and it helps you win basketball games. You know, especially
33:29 the offensive end, if you're not a great shooting team, even if you are, you get putbacks and you
33:33 get kickout threes, the hardest shot in basketball to guard is a kickout because you're scrambling.
33:39 So yeah, I just love where this team's trending. The turnovers again are a question that we gotta,
33:45 you know, or something we gotta watch. 13 is not great, but what I mentioned earlier,
33:51 Ryan had five and Graham has four, so that's nine obviously. So if those guys just clean it up a
33:55 little bit, we're down under 10. But again, Ryan's are a little bit of, he plays really fast
34:05 in a good way and he tries to make things happen. So sometimes the guy's gonna get stolen from him,
34:09 it happens. And then Graham's have gotten better, but he'll still continue to work against double
34:15 teams and understand that aspect of, you know, what he needs to do to be more efficient underneath.
34:21 But he's had a great season so far. So now getting into University of Washington, like I said,
34:28 I watched them a little bit before. They played Colorado State, who's actually a really good team,
34:33 ranked 13th in the country, really tough, gritty team from the Mountain West. And it was,
34:38 I think '86-'81, it was a close game. Colorado State hit a big three late, kind of deflated
34:44 U-Dub's comeback attempt, but they've overhauled their roster, a lot of new transfers, new players.
34:51 They've gone away from the 2-3 because Hopkins was a disciple of
34:58 Boeheim and he came over, how long has he had this job? Probably eight years, I think now, maybe?
35:06 That's a good question. - That is a good question.
35:10 But he came over and tried to implore the same style that Syracuse had, get extremely long,
35:17 athletic guys, run a weird 2-3, and then kind of play, roll the ball out there and we'll beat you
35:23 with talent and athleticism. Not a bad strategy, but harder to do, in my opinion. So...
35:30 - Been with Washington since 2017. - So it was year six or seven,
35:37 whatever, yeah, year seven. - Year seven, yep.
35:39 - So, I think went to the NCAA tournament once, you looked that up?
35:45 - Yeah, I looked it up. - So, like I said earlier in the start,
35:51 I think they're playing for their job or coaching for their job. So I'm impressed when people,
35:59 not only recognize that, but just recognize stuff's not working and they change their
36:03 philosophy. So they're playing man-to-man more. They're trying to play a little bit more disciplined
36:09 on offense, running more actions. The Keyon Brooks kid is having a fantastic year, shooting 54% from
36:16 the field, 81 from the line, averaging eight rebounds, almost 22 points a game. So he's
36:25 going to be a factor for us defensively. The Wheeler kid's having a good year, almost 17
36:30 points a game, shooting 43 from the field. He obviously can score in bunches, but he's not as
36:37 efficient as Brooks. So it's going to be an interesting game. We're playing at Hec Ed,
36:43 which I respect Coach Fu playing them because they came to our building. And we've had close
36:49 games against them that one year. Drew, he had to make that last second fade away. Obviously my
36:57 years, but that's beyond the Hopkins era. That was Romar. So it's going to be a fun game. Like I
37:06 said, this team's four and three. They're not terrible. They had a great win against Xavier.
37:11 Xavier's good. Kind of a bad loss against Nevada. Nevada's not great. A loss in overtime to San
37:21 Diego State, supposed to be good. Not as good as last year, but we were playing them. We're
37:26 looking at that game as hopefully a quad one. So if they could have got that win, it would have
37:31 been better. But this is going to be a tough one. And like I said, playing at Hec Ed is always a
37:38 fun environment. It's a little bit different. It's kind of an odd-sized gym. They get rocking in
37:44 there if there's the right opponent. Seattle's just starving for good basketball, man, for probably
37:51 20 years now, if you really think about 15 at least. And you always just—this is not me just
37:57 hating on UW, but you're like, "Man, just be 20 and 12 every year and be in an NCAA tournament,
38:05 man." You know what I'm saying? They just have so much talent in that area, and they've had for a
38:12 long time, and they just somehow it's escaped them. But I do respect Hopkins trying to change
38:18 it and trying to run more conventional stuff, changing his roster, not playing a 2-3 zone that
38:26 I think is just easy to defend against when you know it's coming the whole game. Now mix and match
38:32 is good, but yeah, so I'm looking forward to this one. It's going to be an interesting test for us.
38:39 It's always, like I said, a hostile environment there. -You're not going in a neutral side,
38:45 so that's always makes things—I mean, I've never seen a game there, so I don't—
38:50 -It's cool. It's a weird—I think it's the smallest of the Pac-12s,
38:55 so whatever that means to you, but I think it provides a better environment. It's kind of a
39:00 stacked seating arrangement, so they pack a lot in there in a smaller space, and when there's
39:07 people in there, it's vile in a good way. Their student section gets pretty after it.
39:13 -As they should. -As they should, exactly. It's more fun that way, and you know,
39:18 that's what college basketball and college football is, is like student sections, and they
39:25 should be a little bit where you cringe a little bit. We're like, "Can we say that still?" You know,
39:29 obviously not the crazy stuff, but some of it should be a little bit personal, and if you
39:34 shoot an airball, you should get made fun of and all those things, and so I'm looking forward to it.
39:40 -Yeah, the last run for the UW in the tournament was Hopkins' first year in 2018. They lost in the
39:47 second round to St. Mary's, and since then, they've just been— -Like 500, right?
39:54 -I mean, they haven't had a winning season since 2018, 2019, so it's been tough.
40:01 -So that's what I'm saying. If you're the athletic department, is the guy coaching for his job,
40:07 or are you just all in for football? You know what I'm saying? That really does happen, too,
40:12 where you're like, "All right, you know, football is going to take most of our resources," and
40:16 obviously, they're in the playoff, so we just don't really care. Care is not the—we're not concerned,
40:24 so I don't know. It'd be interesting, but it feels like, in my opinion, that that staff is
40:30 coaching for their jobs, and so there's going to be some hungerness to trying to get this win,
40:36 and if you can beat Gonzaga, that could save your job, or at least give you some ammo when you go in
40:42 and talk to him at the end of the year. "Well, we beat Gonzaga, and that means we're on the rise."
40:47 You know what I mean? It gives you an out, so yeah, I'm looking forward to it. It's always fun,
40:52 like I said, going into that arena. I had a really good game there my junior year. My freshman year,
40:57 I got a random technical and sat the whole game, and I've never—that was the most mad I've been in
41:04 a long time at Coach Few, like in my entire life. I got a random—like, I held a guy's jersey on like
41:12 an out-of-bounds play, but not like just pulled him down, but like I grabbed it real quick because
41:16 I was getting beat on a screen, and Dave Libby is this guy's name, or you know, it's one of these
41:20 stories where people are like, "I don't give a shit whose name it is," but he ended up being the
41:25 head of officials, and he was like probably one of the best officials on the West Coast. He called
41:28 it like just by the letter of the law, and I got a technical like in my first two minutes on the
41:34 floor, and I sat the rest of the game as a freshman, and I was—I had like tears in my eyes.
41:39 I was so mad because I had friends coming to that, and I was from Spokane, all that stuff,
41:45 and I had to sit, and funny enough, I saw his name was Dave Libby. He then became the head of the
41:53 officials like association, whatever does the West Coast Conference and the Pac-12. I saw him
41:59 on an airplane one time, and I said that to him. He's just started live. He's like, "Yeah, I
42:03 probably went a little bit overboard on that," but it was funny. I was like, "Hey, Dave, you asshole,
42:07 like why'd you call that?" And he's like, he didn't even remember. Then he's—I was like,
42:12 you know, I had to re-explain. He's like, "Oh, yeah, well, you grabbed his jersey," and I was
42:15 like, "You don't—just call a foul," you know. So played there twice. Had one good one, one bad one,
42:23 but I'm looking forward to calling it, and UW's a good team. I know that, like we mentioned,
42:29 four and three, but they're talented. Like I said, the Brooks kids are really good. They've given us
42:34 issues in the past, and obviously you never know when you get these rivalry games, and you get,
42:40 you know, the crowd and stuff. So it's going to be a great—it's our first road game, right? Yeah,
42:46 it's our first true road game. -It's our first true road game, yeah.
42:48 -Yeah, yeah. So that—add that into it, and so yeah, I'm really looking forward to calling it,
42:55 and it should be a good one, and you know, I think the—our guys are ready for it. We match up well
43:01 against them, but they have enough talent that if they get rocking and going in there that they can,
43:06 you know, upset us. That's a legitimate question. -Absolutely.
43:09 -Legitimate thing that can happen. I'm going to talk a little about—
43:14 The Perimeter will be right back after a word from our sponsor.
43:18 Hey, it's Olive. I just got my first ICCU debit card. Now I just need some money in my account.
43:25 If only there was someone who could transfer in some allowance. Wow.
43:30 I'm going to talk a little about the women's game.
43:35 -Yeah. -Went to the game,
43:37 so I flew back from Vegas, and I had a weird—I had to go to Denver and then back up, and everybody
43:43 that flies to Denver knows that, like, landing there sucks. I'm a nervous flyer. I've flown over—
43:49 this is not an exaggeration. I've done a rough estimate. I've, like, 850,000 times I've flown
43:56 back in my life, like, commercial flights. Still a nervous flyer. Not, like, freak out,
44:00 but when turbulence happens, I got, you know, I turn the music off. I got to hold on to the thing.
44:04 I got to look forward, open up the thing. You know, I'm one of those people. And every time
44:09 you go to Denver, it's brutal. Every time you go in, there's always—and I've always wondered,
44:15 you know, it's one of those where I could look it up, but I'm too lazy. But, like, is it the
44:20 altitude? -I would imagine, yeah.
44:22 -But why does that matter, you know what I'm saying? Because you're still flying,
44:24 you know what I mean? -That's a good question.
44:26 -Right? So anyway, I land at 1230. I'm supposed to land at, like, 1215. We're a little bit
44:32 delayed. Game starts at 1. I sprint over there, get my daughter a ticket so she meets me over
44:37 there. And I must say the atmosphere in the kennel was fantastic for that game. So I watched the
44:42 three quarters, second quarter, third quarter, obviously fourth quarter. The ladies played as
44:48 good as you could play. -Yeah. I mean, they won by almost—
44:52 -They didn't miss a shot in the third quarter. It was crazy. It was one of those where, like,
44:56 ball was pinging wide open, bang, bang, bang. Crowd was getting into it. Defensively,
45:01 they had a great plan. Stanford's big girl, the blondie that's really good inside,
45:07 shot block skilled. She was, I think, sick. So she didn't play the second. That helped a little
45:14 bit, but we were beating them before that. So I've seen, "Oh, they didn't play them at full
45:19 strength." Like, well, it didn't matter. You're up at halftime. But our girls played fantastic.
45:26 The two twin sister—Trong sisters played good. Egyem was unbelievable. That girl was so good.
45:32 Hard rip, finish at the rim. And then I think it's Maxwell or the shooter girl,
45:39 number 22, man. She was literally on fire. Had 27. All, like, rip pull-up jumpers in people's face.
45:46 They go on their whack. Like, it was just—and it was such just—it was just cool to be in that
45:52 environment for the ladies game. You know, they have a great fan base, but it's not sold out to
45:58 the brim. That's just the truth. That they get 4,000, you know, 4,500 a night. So they have a
46:04 great—they have a great fan base. But it was, like, rocking in there, and it was really cool.
46:09 So congrats to the ladies. Moved into the top 25, as they should. That was the biggest win,
46:15 or the highest-rated team they've ever beaten in program history. And then it was Stanford's
46:22 biggest loss in the last four years they've ever had. But I must say, Stanford, kudos to them for
46:28 playing like a home and home. Like, they don't have to—like, in theory, they're Stanford. You
46:33 can come play us at our place, and then we'll play you in neutral in the arena or something.
46:37 Yeah.
46:37 You know, and you can make it up. So kudos to them for playing us home and home.
46:42 So yeah, it was just a great ladies basketball game, man. It was fantastic. They scored the ball.
46:49 Ball was pinging. Our big girls inside, like I said, Egyem, they had another girl,
46:55 Hollingsworth or whatever her name is, had 15 off the bench as well. I mean, it was just,
47:00 like, beautiful. Like, balls pinging. Defensively, we're all over the glass.
47:05 Those Trong sisters—hopefully I'm saying their name right—but they both can score the basketball.
47:11 They both got moxie to them, you know, kind of F it attitude. And then Egyem's just a tough ass
47:17 man. Like, she just kicks people's ass, and she's, like, undersized, but she just leg whips people.
47:23 And then they, you know, if they front, they throw lobs to her all the time. She just catches
47:28 power dribble, score. Like, she just, you know, I think she had 20-something and 13. Like, she
47:34 just kicks people's ass. So it was fun to go and keep watching the ladies game. It's a fun game.
47:39 You just have to, you know, some people that are—there's no dunking. Like, who cares?
47:44 Yeah.
47:44 Like, it's like, okay, how many dunks in a men's game? Do you see one or two?
47:48 And are they really that good?
47:50 Right.
47:51 Right? You know what I'm saying?
47:51 Yeah, it's true. Yeah.
47:52 It's true. Like, there's not really a bunch that are, like, where you go, "Oh my god."
47:56 Yeah.
47:56 So it's just, it's a below-the-rim game, but it's a team basketball game, and you see
48:01 kind of the true essence of how the game was meant to be played. Team, share the ball.
48:07 Yeah.
48:08 Rotate, you know what I mean? All those things. So congrats to the ladies. Hopefully they continue
48:13 to win. Got a really good win against Eastern, too, the day before 82-80, and Eastern has a
48:17 good girls program.
48:18 I was going to ask. I was, I saw, I was, like, looking at the schedule. I was like,
48:21 they only—they eked out a win against Eastern Washington.
48:24 Eastern's good, too.
48:25 They're good, okay.
48:26 Yeah, Eastern's good. Obviously, I've talked about a little bit on some of these that I
48:31 coach my daughter's team, so I'm a little bit—not fully entrenched, but I know enough
48:35 around the area, like, what teams are good for girls hoops, obviously. And I know a lot of the
48:40 high school girls that play, because I've coached a lot of them, and the ones that are
48:43 going to play somewhere, right? I've been lucky enough to coach them, so I know some
48:46 of the coaches, and they've come to our games, and blah, blah, blah. So Eastern's got a good
48:50 program, too.
48:51 That's good.
48:52 They got a really good program.
48:53 That's awesome.
48:53 So, yeah, they're on the rise. So, yeah, go watch the girls hoops teams, and—
48:58 It's a great way to experience the Kennel if you, you know—
49:02 100%.
49:02 Yeah, you should go. I wouldn't say, like, it's a great way to experience if you can't go to
49:06 men's game. Like, true, but, like, you're also, like, we have a nationally ranked women's team
49:11 in Spokane.
49:12 Well, and they've been, you know—
49:13 And they're great.
49:14 Yeah, and how many years have they been in the NCAA tournament in a row?
49:19 I mean, I think it's upwards of eight.
49:22 Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So, like, it's always good hoops. That's the thing. It's like,
49:26 you're not just going in there to say you walked in the Kennel. Like, you're watching good hoops,
49:30 and that's just the real deal about it. And they have good players. They have a good culture.
49:35 They actually— Again, I hope this doesn't get taken the wrong way, but they have fans
49:40 at their games. You know, I've been to other girls' games with really good programs, and
49:47 people don't show up. And so the atmosphere is a little bit dead. Now, if you love the game,
49:51 that shouldn't matter, but it's, you know, you want to see people supporting the ladies' game.
49:56 For sure.
49:57 The Spokane Community Sports, that program, because they earned it, and they deserve to.
50:03 But it's nice when you go to any sporting event that there's an atmosphere.
50:06 Yeah.
50:06 So you're going to get that. If you go to the ladies' game, you're going to get good hoops,
50:09 and then you're going to get some atmosphere. And then, like you said, you get to experience
50:13 the Kennel. And the presentation's a little bit different. Like, they do way different games.
50:17 Yeah.
50:17 Like, you know—
50:18 Like halftime, like—
50:20 Halftime games, they did, like, drawings and stuff. It was like, oh, cool. You know what I mean?
50:23 Because I haven't been to a game in a while. It was cool to go with my daughter, obviously. But
50:27 yeah, congrats to the ladies. Big time win. Stanford's, if you don't know the ladies'
50:31 games, there's a perennial power. I think they won it three years ago with a little nugget.
50:38 The Hole Sisters from Spokane that went to CV, they won a national championship with them. So
50:43 like, girls' hoops in Spokane has always been good. And those ladies, actually, another nugget,
50:50 CV won the year before—or two years before—won the national championship
50:55 of, like, girls' high school basketball.
50:59 Yeah.
50:59 As a public school, which is insane.
51:02 Which, yeah, doesn't happen.
51:03 Which is insane of people who really think—like, a public school where they all have to live in
51:08 the district won the national championship, which is insane. But anyway. And they went to Stanford.
51:14 Yeah, and they went to Stanford.
51:15 They went to Stanford. So yeah. So yeah, next week, we're going to go over UConn.
51:20 Obviously, the recap U-Dub. Hopefully, it's a win, but nonetheless, we'll recap that game,
51:27 talk about UConn, massive game at Climate Pledge Arena. Obviously, the, you know, revenge game from
51:33 last year, which doesn't make any sense, but that's what they're going to bill it as. UConn
51:39 just lost at home—or on the road to Kansas in a very good basketball game, a close game. So UConn
51:45 is right back to where they were. It's fantastic. You know, that East Coast is kind of grind you,
51:52 play tough. Hurley's scream at his guys, but they believe in him, and obviously, he's a good coach.
51:58 So that's going to be a fun one to preview and talk about. So yeah, thanks for listening. Thank
52:04 you to our sponsors, McGillvery Environmental, Idaho Central Credit Unit, and HDG Architecture.
52:12 Thank you again for listening, and see you next week.
52:25 [Music]