Benjamin Zephaniah - The Jonathan Ross Show - Extended Interview
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00:00 CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
00:02 How do you like that?
00:09 Oh!
00:13 APPLAUSE
00:15 Oh, my goodness!
00:17 Benjamin, thank you for joining us. Come and sit down.
00:20 Great to see you. You look swish, of course you do.
00:23 I look swish? I'm Jimmy Hakan! Yes!
00:25 I'm not swish! I look swish!
00:27 An incredible career you've had.
00:29 Well, I mean, you know, because the poetry, of course,
00:31 has been going on. Before we talk about other...
00:33 Just let me... Cos I was speaking to everyone else about Halloween.
00:36 Halloween's something you celebrate? Jamaican.
00:38 No. Same thing? Same thing, same thing.
00:40 You mention Halloween and it is the devil.
00:43 But am I right in thinking, and this is exciting,
00:45 but am I right in thinking that you had sort of
00:47 a supernatural experience once?
00:49 Yes, I had a very, very weird experience.
00:52 Interestingly, you know, a lot of these experiences happen
00:55 in the night when there's shadows and stuff like that,
00:58 but this happened in broad daylight.
01:01 Me and five other people were in a house in Birmingham.
01:05 We were waiting for a cousin to come home.
01:08 She walked in the front door, through the front room
01:12 and out the back door.
01:14 And we went to see her and she wasn't there. Oh!
01:17 And we all saw her.
01:19 Later on that day, we found out that she'd been hit by a car...
01:24 Oh. ..died for about five minutes or whatever it is you die,
01:28 and come back to life. Wow.
01:30 And it wasn't just me. Like I said, there was five of us that witnessed it.
01:33 So in those five minutes, instead of exploring the afterlife,
01:36 she went back to her house in Birmingham and had a walk around?
01:40 It was really...
01:41 And I'm not one of those people that kind of believe in that stuff.
01:45 I'm into science, you know? Yeah, yeah.
01:47 But I also understand that there's stuff that we can't prove.
01:52 But that is... Cos I normally dismiss all that kind of thing,
01:55 but that does sound genuinely convincing.
01:57 And the fact that I know, you know, you're a sober gentleman.
02:00 You were sober at the time?
02:01 Listen, I don't drink, I don't smoke.
02:03 Once or twice a year, I have sex and that's it. Yeah.
02:07 Me too, mate. Me too.
02:09 I mean, didn't ask about the last thing, but...
02:14 I didn't say, "Had you not had sex for a while,
02:17 "is that why you saw a ghost?"
02:19 You don't see ghosts cos you're horny.
02:22 But before we chat more about you,
02:24 anyone else had any experiences like that? Rob?
02:26 What, having sex twice a year? No!
02:29 I call that a good year.
02:31 Benjamin, let's talk about your writing, let's talk about your poetry.
02:35 Because when did you start?
02:36 Cos it's not a career that you sort of imagined for yourself, I imagine.
02:39 When I was about eight years old, I did have a vision.
02:43 It was like, "I'm going to do poetry
02:45 "and I'm going to put poetry into music
02:47 "and I'm going to put it into theatre and it's going to be political,
02:50 "it's going to be funny, and one day I'm going to be on the Jonathan Ross show."
02:54 And I had that vision in my head.
02:57 I was performing poetry in the school playground,
03:00 in community centres, in police stations...
03:03 Anything to get out!
03:07 Does it work? Can you get out of police stations by spinning some bars?
03:13 I'm a poet, we don't call them bars, do you, man?
03:16 OK, so what do you call it? We call them stanzas.
03:19 So when you use a stanza, does it get you out of trouble?
03:22 No.
03:23 But it wasn't until I was about 21, 22,
03:28 that I actually started writing my poetry down.
03:31 You won a BAFTA recently, Best Entertainment Programme,
03:35 and congratulations for Life and Rhymes.
03:38 APPLAUSE
03:40 And what a lovely thing to see poetry put centre stage
03:43 and then be awarded like that.
03:46 That must have been a delightful moment.
03:48 When did you find out you'd won it?
03:50 I was in a garden centre.
03:53 I was in a garden centre and we were doing a transaction
03:57 and a lady from the production company rang me and said,
04:00 "Hello, Benjamin." I said, "I'm really busy."
04:02 She said, "Hello, Benjamin." I said, "I'm really busy, can you call me back?"
04:05 And she went, "No!"
04:07 I said, "What's the matter?" She went, "You've won the BAFTA!"
04:10 And I went, "I've won the BAFTA!"
04:13 And everybody in the shop went, "He's won the BAFTA!"
04:16 "He's won the BAFTA!" And they were all clapping.
04:19 And then she went, "Don't tell anybody!"
04:21 LAUGHTER
04:23 They had to announce it.
04:25 "Don't tell!"
04:27 There were all these people in Spalding in Lincolnshire
04:33 who had to keep this secret for a week or so.
04:36 But it was great because poetry, for the most part,
04:39 had been seen as underground.
04:41 And it's the first time, I've got to give credit to Sky,
04:44 because they took a risk of putting a show which was pure spoken word poetry,
04:49 and not just a one-off show, it was a series.
04:52 When we won, we beat The Masked Singer.
04:54 You've heard of that programme?
04:56 Well, it's interesting, because we won The Masked Singer
05:01 and Ant & Dec and Strictly Come Dancing.
05:05 And we were in the entertainment section.
05:07 But that is amazing, because those shows,
05:09 especially when you think about Strictly and Ant & Dec,
05:11 they're juggernauts.
05:12 And for people to recognise, obviously it was an important piece of work,
05:15 but it was entertainment as well, which is crucial.
05:17 Because all this poetry is often seen as being a bit fusty
05:20 or as being a bit highbrow.
05:22 But, of course, this was poetry that really connected with real life
05:25 and with what was going on.
05:27 I remember many years ago, somebody asked me to put a title to my show,
05:30 and it just used to be Benjamin Zephaniah on stage performing.
05:33 And I had to think about it, and I came up with this title.
05:36 "Laugh, Cry and Get Angry With Benjamin Zephaniah."
05:40 Because all those things would happen.
05:42 People would be laughing their heads off,
05:44 and then they'd be crying, and then they'd be angry.
05:46 "I'm going to go on that demonstration next week about oil."
05:49 LAUGHTER
05:51 I don't know how you're only having sex twice a year.
05:54 LAUGHTER
05:55 They get the gans, they get the sugar.
05:58 Because they've got that way, isn't it, with their tongue?
06:01 They're very, like...
06:03 No, you know what I mean?
06:05 They go into that moment and they're like...
06:08 "I see...
06:10 "See eye...
06:12 "Lie...
06:15 "You lie, I lie...
06:17 "Why?"
06:19 LAUGHTER
06:20 And then everyone goes...
06:22 It was a part... I used to call myself Sugar Love,
06:26 and I used to be trying a ting, and as you can see, it didn't work,
06:29 so I went to comedy.
06:31 But I do appreciate poets, you know, Dr Maya Angelou.
06:34 There's a lot of people that I listen to,
06:36 and I love the way, the rhythm, I love that you can connect to it
06:39 on an emotional level.
06:40 But that's why spoken word is so important,
06:42 because that's how people can share things, isn't it?
06:44 Well, look, if I'm in Jamaica or India,
06:47 and I say to somebody, "I'm a poet,"
06:49 they don't go, "Oh, darling, what have you had published?"
06:52 They go, "Do one." Yeah.
06:54 "Go on, show me."
06:55 But you're not going to write to me now. What?
06:57 Do one.
06:58 LAUGHTER
07:00 I wasn't expecting that.
07:02 CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
07:04 OK, here's a short one.
07:09 It's called Overstanding.
07:11 # Open up your mind, make some rhythm come in
07:13 # Open up your brain, do some reasoning
07:15 # Open up your heart so we can connect
07:17 # Open up for knowledge and intellect
07:19 # Open up the speaker, make me blast this zone
07:21 # Open up the sky, make the beers come down
07:23 # Open up your eyes, make me look inside
07:25 # If you want to overstand this, open wide
07:28 # Open up your house, make the refugee come in
07:30 # You might overstand and start helping
07:32 # Open your imagination, go for a ride
07:34 # If you want to overstand this, open wide
07:36 # Open up your fists and welcome a kiss
07:38 # Get a load of this, open up business
07:40 # Open up your bank account and spend
07:42 # Open up your wallet and check a friend
07:44 # Open up the dance floor, make I dance
07:46 # Open up your body and love romance
07:48 # If you have not opened up, you have not tried
07:50 # If you want to overstand this, open wide
07:52 # Open up the border, free up the land
07:54 # Open up the books in the Vatican
07:56 # Open yourself to any possibility
07:58 # Open up your heart and your mentality
08:00 # Open any door that you confront
08:02 # Let me put it straight, sincere and blunt
08:04 # Narrow-mindedness must run and hide
08:09 # If you want to overstand this, open wide. #
08:12 CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
08:15 You know, we've been talking about your poetry,
08:21 but we haven't mentioned one thing,
08:23 which, of course, people will know you from Peaky Blinders.
08:25 Mm. How did that come about?
08:27 Because were you acting before then?
08:29 I had acted.
08:31 When Peaky Blinders came up, it was a weird coincidence.
08:35 When I got the phone call, I was actually reading a book
08:38 called Peaky Blinders and the Gangs of Birmingham,
08:40 so I knew about them anyway.
08:42 Were you in a garden centre at the time?
08:44 LAUGHTER
08:46 You're so funny, you are.
08:50 You should be on television more.
08:54 LAUGHTER
08:56 But one of the first scenes we did was me standing on the street,
09:01 preaching hell and damnation and all that kind of stuff,
09:05 and Cillian Murphy comes past on a horse and he gives me a nod
09:08 and I give him a nod.
09:10 We shot that scene and then I remember we sat down to have a break
09:13 while they reset,
09:15 and me and Cillian were talking about the project
09:19 and we said, you know, a drama, gangster drama,
09:23 set in Birmingham in the 1920s.
09:26 I said, "It'll never take off, will it?"
09:29 And I remember kind of looking at the rushes
09:33 and we just looked at it and said, "Yeah, this is going to be big."
09:36 It just looked so beautiful.
09:38 I must admit, though, I would probably watch a film
09:40 which had Cillian Murphy just opening a bin bag.
09:43 Because it's hard not to look at him when he's on screen, isn't it?
09:46 And the thing I found out about Benjamin,
09:48 which I had no idea until you'd come on the show,
09:50 and I knew a little bit about you and your career,
09:52 is that you've been spending a lot of your life in China.
09:54 Yes. And so why China? What drew you to China?
09:57 My love of martial arts, really.
10:00 So you went out there to study?
10:02 I went out there to study and I ended up teaching lots of kids.
10:05 And what area of martial arts?
10:07 Well, tai chi. A lot of people think of it as this floaty, dancey thing.
10:11 Yeah, you see the old people doing it in squares.
10:13 Yeah, but that's a particular style of tai chi.
10:15 My tai chi is real fighting tai chi. Wow.
10:18 The first form looks a bit floaty and dancey,
10:20 but actually it has a kind of, you know, self-defence application.
10:26 Could you show us? Who wants to...? You don't all have to join in,
10:29 but do you want to join in? Who wants to learn a bit of tai chi?
10:32 OK, can you teach us something?
10:34 Shall we just stand here and see what you can do with...
10:37 Well... Let's face it, a rather underwhelming class.
10:40 Everybody stood up. Right, so...
10:43 This, actually, when you do tai chi and you do martial arts,
10:46 one of the first things we want you to do is relax.
10:48 OK, loosey-goosey. So I want to test your...
10:50 I want to see how relaxed you are now.
10:52 This will redirect a man's energy.
10:55 I think you've done eye-line.
11:03 Wow.
11:05 You certainly have my attention.
11:11 So I want you to stand with your feet kind of shoulder-width apart.
11:16 Just bend your knee slightly. Oh, he did say that.
11:18 Straighten your back. Straighten your back.
11:20 Now I want you to relax. Feel completely relaxed.
11:23 Now, I want you... Don't do it yet, but in a moment,
11:25 I want you to follow me and just move your hands up like this.
11:28 In a moment. Not yet, not yet.
11:30 And I want you to come to about there.
11:32 Now, remember, be relaxed and let your hands float up.
11:36 Altogether, let's do it. Nice and slowly.
11:39 You've just tuned in.
11:44 And now stop. Keep it there.
11:46 Are we doing the Thriller music video?
11:49 Right. Drop your shoulders.
11:51 See that? Four inches. Drop your shoulders.
11:55 I can't. I'm a big girl. Will you say four?
11:57 The point is, drop your shoulders.
12:00 Can you see that, audience? Can you see how they're dropping? Yeah.
12:03 Yeah. That shows me how much tension they've got in their body.
12:06 Oh, he's got four inches, has he?
12:08 Because you...
12:12 I'm doing some taping.
12:14 I tell you what, I'm enjoying every one of them.
12:16 Basically...
12:17 I'm trying to do a Steamers commercial off of you.
12:21 You can't tell me he's got four inches and let me leave it.
12:24 I haven't got a job to do it.
12:26 No, sink down.
12:27 Everyone's got four inches, you'd better leave it.
12:29 Sink. What, the whole body? Yes.
12:31 And just feel your weight going down into your legs.
12:34 I definitely can feel that. Right.
12:36 Now...
12:37 Now, relax.
12:39 Now, that's the first movement of Tai Chi.
12:41 Now, you may think, "What is this for?"
12:44 Now, I want you to come here.
12:46 Turn around.
12:48 Now, I want you to go like you're going to attack me.
12:52 Go like you're going to throttle me, like that.
12:54 Oh, OK. Go for it.
12:56 OK, hold on. Go.
12:57 Except for look, that's actually scared. OK, go.
13:01 But what if I... Just go!
13:05 Just leave it, Jonathan. Go for it!
13:09 It's not worth it, Jonathan. Just leave it.
13:11 Oh, oh, oh, yeah.
13:13 And that's why it's so tricky, yeah?
13:17 Ow.
13:19 Ow.
13:20 Ow.
13:21 I mean...
13:22 That's some force...
13:24 Whoa, that hurt.
13:26 OK, OK.
13:29 I'm trying you.
13:30 I'm pulling, I'm cheating each other.
13:32 Oh, this can end up badly.
13:34 OK.
13:35 I'm trying to save you.
13:36 Whoa.
13:38 LAUGHTER
13:39 It all got a bit out of hand.
13:45 Benjamin, that was amazing. Thank you so much for that.
13:49 But will you join me in thanking Benjamin and all my guests tonight,
13:52 ladies and gentlemen?
13:53 CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
13:54 Thank you so much.
13:55 Robert Closet, as always, Tom Ravitch,
13:56 Julia Grzyma, thank you so much.
13:57 Judy, thank you so much.
13:59 Thank you.
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